Eleanor O'Neill: The Hidden Revenue Engine You're Ignoring (Hint: It's Your Customers)

Hello, everybody. On today's episode of the Revenue Insights podcast, we're excited to welcome Eleanor o', Neill, Chief Revenue Officer at Monta. Eleanor has built an extraordinary career leading at the crossroads of technology, customer experience and revenue. She's held nearly every seat across the go to market spectrum, from CIO and CTO to Chief Customer Officer, Chief Commercial Officer, and now CRO, giving her a unique, holistic view of how modern revenue organizations actually work. At Monta, Eleanor is helping shape how revenue teams operate in the EV charging industry. Monta is an EV charging software platform used by operators to manage pricing, payments, roaming, and reporting across public, private and fleet charging networks. So, without further ado, welcome to the show, Eleanor. Thank you very much, Kalei. It's very nice to be here. So let's dive straight in. Can you walk us through your career journey and how you ended up as the CRO seat at Monta? Yes, I can. I often wonder if it's a career or if it's a couple of, you know, unexpected turns, but. So I am an engineer. Originally. I spent the first 10 years of my career as an academic. And then, you know, of all the places I thought my career would go, this is far from what I thought was on my career path. I thought I might be a technical lead, you know, at a, at a corporate, you know, organization. And that's where I thought my destiny was. And I think just keeping my eyes open and curiosity sort of led me in a different direction. So, yeah, I, you know, I was always interested in entrepreneurship, even when I was in kind of as an academic. So I was always kind of involved in the innovation arm or entrepreneurship side of, of academia and came out and, you know, I tried my hand at starting a company and spinning out a university, spinning out a company from a university, and sort of left that and thought, you know, actually I need to figure out how to build products properly, so made a conscious decision to go in and learn how to be a proper engineer and learn from the best. And I learned from a really good CTO who taught me very well. He taught me how to think about scale, how to think about rigor, how to, you know, build things that last. And then kind of couple of turns along the way, I found myself building software to solve revenue operations. I was actually a Force.com developer at one point in my career, which kind of got me into the heart of working and living alongside sales teams and thinking about, you know, from a very different perspective, sort of sandbagging and everything else, but completely from building the software to solve those problems. And so I worked with quite a brief over Telefonica and worked with some big companies, some of the big US insurance companies doing that and working with their sales teams. And I learned an awful lot from sitting alongside the revenue operations leaders at the time and what they, how they were trying to motivate their sales teams. And then sort of I became a chief information officer and I was looking after commercial operations as part of that. So I ran sales operations, I ran the kind of data infrastructure for that company. Everything from, from entitlement provisioning, making sure the product was kind of switched on for customers, everything into invoicing, all those sort of things. And started kind of drifting my first kind of drift towards the commercial side of the house. And I was part of a management team at a legal tech company. We were PE backed, we were going for kind of various rounds of investment. And through that I was sort of slightly wearing the COO hat at the time, kind of working with our cfo. We didn't have that role in the business so we sort of were bridging it together. It's probably the best way to explain that swiftly for a short explanation and at one point, one stage where I was kind of looking at the performance of the business I was in at the time and our post sales area, perhaps our chief revenue officer is doing a great job of bringing new lines of business to market. We had young products and kind of early stage products that either had repeatability of five figure deals or new lines that were attracting seven figure deals. And so we had a signal that new business was doing quite well. But then the POCs weren't converting as they tumbled across into post sales and we weren't quite getting that post sales motion working. And so that was when I kind of drifted across and thought, well sure, I'll try my hand at that and let's see what happens. I led the chief customer officer role at a couple of organizations. So Workshare, then a Norwegian company that went was, was very interesting, lived in Oslo for a while doing that. And that company had a successful exit to Autodesk. We sold that company, then went on and did an infrastructure company and at that company flipped into the kind of the full sales piece as well as the post sales piece. And so I became chief Commercial officer there to now where I am today as chief Revenue officer specialist spanning marketing, sales, post sales and revenue operations. Wow, that is a journey. We don't often come across commercial leaders that have got that kind of that historical background in, well, everything from Kind of writing code through to operations. So it sounds unique in a way. But at the same time, one of the messages we hear a lot about commercial leaders is that they got there by just being curious and, and getting stuck in when needed. You know, a number of those examples you were telling us about, well, we didn't have a role for this, so we all just mucked in and all of a sudden you become the expert at that thing in that company. So I think the takeaway for those that are listening in is, is stay curious and help your team to solve the big problems. And you know, if no one's fixing something, then if you can pick it up and figure out how to do it, suddenly you become the expert. Couldn't agree more. And I think I fundamentally believe, and I've always believed in my career, that when you come to the office in the morning, you bring your whole self so you don't turn up. And I'll bring the part of me that's the chief revenue officer today I turn up and I bring my. Sometimes I'm a solution engineer because I can wear the technical hat. Like at the moment I'm helping with a deal where we're trying to cut a new way of selling, a new way of representing the product in the market. And I'm arguably putting on my solution engineering hat in that deal because it's important to the business and I want to see the results the. For the. So I totally believe in that. You know, turn up, be curious, contribute and bring your whole self to work. I think it makes such a difference. I'm curious about how that actually surfaces in day to day life in the company. So you know, all of these other leaders that are supposedly experts in their areas that are working with you, you get to, you can hold them to account because you understand more about kind of where they're coming from. I suppose I would like to say I'm empathetic guy. Yes, it is true. I can hold people to account. I mean, I think what it often turns into is I can have meaningful conversations. I think that's something that our customers have always valued. So I think I do very well as a CRO of a technology company because the people I'm sitting across from who are buying the software, arguably I sat in their seat at one point. I remember the pain of the budget, I remember the optimism of buying the software and then they go try and deliver it. And you kind of living on both sides of that moment. I think it helps internally with our own product teams, you know, because you know, I also know what it's like to be a CTO and to have to deliver something that somebody else sold. And then it's kind of gray when it comes across the, you know, the table to you and you're like, what was that requirement originally when it was first, when it was first set? And now it's a solution that I need to implement. So I think it helps in multi multiple dimensions. And if I can say one more thing, I do think that being well versed on technology in the current climate is no bad thing. You know, really understanding how technology works, how it helps your business, that's, that's not hurt me in my career, that's for sure. Yeah. And I'm also interested to know more about the, the time you spent looking after the existing customers specifically. A lot of CROs are really just a VP of sales with a new title, really just focused on getting those new logos over the line and not as worried about lifetime value and the efficiency or profitability of exist of customers that were signing. And I suppose that because you've got that firsthand knowledge of looking after customers and the pains that they bring, that must help you when you're thinking the way you think about revenue and the way you look after and you're the custodian of that kind of commercial go to market system and making sure that actually whatever the sellers are doing or whatever the marketeers are doing is servicing the sellers and in turn that's servicing the customer success team as well. Yeah, I had, I think, you know, there's been a few standard experiences of my career and there's one in particular which was a company I joined, a young company I joined where they, and the philosophy was to really invest in the customer. If you invest in the customer, sort of a lot of everything else falls behind it. Now obviously it doesn't just kind of drop out of the sky into your lap, but you know, you make a customer successful, that turns into amazing marketing material, that turns into amazing reference stories which feed back into the fuel of the, of the sales life cycle. It means you have low churn. It means, you know, you've got, you know, great lifetime value. I mean there's so many ways and I think I've also been in, you know, many companies that have had the growth at all costs attitude, you know, where you know, just pushing all this capital into the sales function, into these AES and you've got 10, 20 AES hired globally and no repeatable sales motion and insufficient kind of references. So I Do think that if you understand why your customers buy your product, understand your icp, understand how to deliver, that it pays back in dividends. One of our advisors here, suny, I worked with for a long time, she, I remember she said to me, you know, when we, in the early days, when we started working together, which is many, many years ago now, she said that if you can speak the language of your customers, they will understand so much better. So in every customer conversation you're having in the post sales world that's, you know, iterating that back into the marketing machine and making sure that we're using that language, that vocabulary, that recognizable terminology in the marketing machine, I think is just so powerful. And then you get that. You know, I saw somebody, a friend of mine, Steven, he kind of described it as the go to market circle. So you know, we have the classic bow tie, we've got the funnels, but there's a degree of the go to market circle and I think that's really powerful. Yeah, I call it the flywheel. But I agree with you, it's definitely the way forward and it allowed that level of focus while in the early days can be quite painful because. No, no, we're just going to focus on selling to these ones actually the way it serves you, when you start turning that flywheel, the case studies service the ICP customers that you're trying to sell to and it's, you start to become famous for doing that one thing really well. And I think, I think more often than not, if I look back on a lot of the mistakes and challenges I've had over the years is when I've tried to do too much, when we try to go too broad. And I think when we get niche, when we get focused on ICP or a particular use case that we're trying to solve, we can become the world's best at that one thing and then we get famous for it. And I think that seems to serve. And look, ultimately we look at a lot of data here. So last year we analyzed just over half a million opportunities. And one of the really interesting takeaways is that the revenue that we're responsible for as CROs is 80 plus percent of that revenue is existing customers. And at the same time we're now seeing that the revenue, the new revenue we generated in 2025 from new customers was almost, was not that far off the new revenue we generated from existing customers last year. In fact, the previous year it was actually the success teams were generating from expansion was generating more revenue than new Logo this year it's not quite as high, but it's still a material amount of revenue coming from those existing customers. And of course on top of that, all the existing revenue is there. And so a lot of the time I think success doesn't get the attention, focus or resources that it could benefit from. And ultimately, when we look at the data, for example, we see that the average win rate on a cross sell opportunity is now 45% while in a sales cycle it's less than 20%. The number of stakeholders you need involved in an expansion opportunity is much less. The time to close is much shorter. And so if you consult to the right customer first, that land and expand motion is really changing the market at the moment and is the businesses that are leaning into that are the ones that are growing fastest. Couldn't agree more. I mean, I've had that experience so many times and I, you know, I don't know if you've heard this talk, but I've heard this recently and I don't, I don't kind of move in the customer success circle so much anymore. It's not, I don't spend as much time there as I used to, but I've sort of heard this, you know, this kind of, sort of feedback about customer success kind of having slightly lost its identity. I don't know if that's a thing, but it's just, it's an echo chamber maybe at the moment. But like I, you know, I really believe, you know, I have joined many companies where customer success has been sort of the dumpling ground and I join these stress CSMs and kind of can deliver this market, this kind of product that's not quite ready for the market and they're triaging it and they're almost customer support, but they're not quite, but they've still got revenue targets. But when you can elevate customer success to be a strategic function, which is where I believe it lives, and they're both, you know, helping customers succeed and finding new buying centers or creating leads for the sales team, but also providing a massive feedback or input to the product team, like that's a strategic partner in two different directions. You know, I think customer success can be one of the most powerful and influential functions in the business. If it's given the right platform and elevated and it doesn't require, you know, huge amounts of investment actually compared to the cost you might see in other teams sometimes, you know, it's, you know, I've debated it with many CFOs over the years. And let's not do that right now. But. But the return on CS can be profound because I think in the. If you think about the kind of the release eng taking new products to market, they get early adopters using that new product and then you get case studies, you got to market with proof points already. So many powerful things that are customer success. Yeah. It just needs to be elevated as a function. Yeah, no, I absolutely agree and the return, the dollars per day return on success can be much, much higher than new logo revenue teams. But. No, I hear you and agree with that but I've got lots of other questions I wanted to get your feedback on so I'm going to keep going. You've been very voc. I was watching some of your posts and so on and you've been very vocal about building for the future and not for yesterday's reality. So I want to dive into what you mean by future ready for in. In revenue and what that really means in practice. Yes. So the most, you know, recent example, I mean it's most. Maybe I might just kind of. I'll try not to dip into our industry specifically too much because I'll try and keep it in the, in the kind of the revenue theme. But where I am right now, I'm in an industry which is probably the earliest stage as an industry that I've ever worked in in that it's electric vehicles. So yes, they've been around for maybe 15 years or so, but there's a huge amount of stuff that's changing all the time. I mean tax is changing regulations, changing compliance even we saw Mark Carney renouncing this kind of with BYD and making an announcement in Canada just a couple of weeks back. The playing field is changing all the time. But also really beginning to understand sort of the kind of the scale of this infrastructure. And the reason I bring that up is because for us, for us scale is going to change massively over the next couple of years. And I'm in an industry where it's changing massively. And so the message I'm landing into that industry is changing, which is why I'm talking about scale an awful lot right now. I talk about it when I try and relate it back to go to market. I talk about it in the context of RFPs are a great example. Customer support is a great example. So with RFPs there's two things we now see serve most of our RFPs internally and is a service we aim to provide to our customers when they enter, when they reply to their RFPs using AI. And that is, that means that, I mean it's, it's. We have invested quite a lot in AI in our company. We've got our own MCP servers. MCP servers, yes, just check, checking, look at the acronyms. Right. But we have invested an awful lot in understanding our data ring, fencing it, making sure it's clean, making sure the AI engine is fueled. But you know, there's, there's, I mean I'm trying to, there's a whole bunch of stuff I could talk about here if, what it means to the industry, what it means to go to market. If I try and anchor back in we, to give an example on, you know, so we're a young company, we're five years old. I would say much of our systems are still quite immature. I would say we're, we're about to just leapfrog a lot of the go to market tooling right now with the investment we've made in AI. So when I, when I say that I don't have gainsight, I don't have a lot of CS tooling, but when we put HubSpot with Claude together with one prompt, I was able to create something I'd never seen before, which was a customer health report. So we could produce a commercial report that showed one of our customers the amount of electricity throughput, the amount of transactions they were processing, the performance of their charge points, the uptime, the reliability, the availability, the level of dimensions. And when I say it was one prompt, it was, can you generate a performance report for this customer based on what you know about Monta and the customer? Like I'm an engineer, I'm a computer scientist. I was like wow, like, wow, like that, that I've suddenly I look at my customer success team and I look at, you know, what it takes them to do a QBR today and then I look at that and I think, oh, I've just bought back 100 hours maybe, you know, or like this Tomostic. It's, it's RFPs. Our customer support is, you know, we're about to launch and we will soon launch or likely launch, just completely free customer support because it's run on AI. You listen to the calls and they are elegant. The speed at which our AI agent. So I listened to a call recently. One of our, A driver got a charging cable like physically locked into a charging unit. And our AIJ agent was able to understand what was happening and unlock the cable so they could release it and drive away. Like what they can do today we're not talking about like, you know, AI that's notifications on steroids. We're talking about AI that is solving business problems. And I think what we're looking ahead is what we call autonomous operations. And that to me is, that's a whole discussion. I'm very excited by that. That really does sound exciting. I think we've all got to recognize that what's coming down the line and businesses that are forward thinking are building these data lakes with consistent data that people can rely on and believe and trust. And they're getting that data from source. They're not interpreting what individuals in particular sellers happen to put into a CRM. They are looking at core content that's coming from your core systems. They're looking at email traffic, calendar events, core recordings. And what the AI can do with this data is really impressive. So on top of those data lakes we're seeing the data being turned into insights and those insights then being worked on by these agents. And, and I mean my last meeting was with a guy who's, he showed me his org chart and he's got seven people in his org chart that are not people, they're agents. And that is really impressive to see that we're now relying on these AI agents to actually do take on full roles. And they're so consistent in the way they operate. If the data behind them is good that we can actually start to see massive opportunities for efficiency and scale. It's unbelievable. We are also facing similar situations where we have a whole function that's being replaced by AI. So not even individual roles, but an actual whole function being replaced by AI. I'm always careful to speak about this empathetically. Many of those people are being promoted into other areas of the business because they've got huge product knowledge that we cannot afford to lose and nature of, of the work. So I can now look at people who were very transactional a short time ago and now become able to think about strategy, actually reading data and interpreting data and coming up with ideation and kind of what is the direction of the company not stuck in the sweat and strain of trying to operate the business. So you know, when I say autonomous operations, the agents are doing the blood, sweat and tears of what so many people have painfully done for years and years to run businesses. So businesses that I think are ahead on the curve of this can actually be quite disruptive. And I do think there's a moment in time right now where actually what on the surface looks like a smaller player has the potential, well equipped with AI and well tooled to change things quite monumentally. No, I absolutely agree. And I was talking to someone the other day who was diving into kind of AI based search. So it turns out we're not using Google as much anymore. We're much more focused on kind of asking ChatGPT which provider we should use or what vendor we should talk to. And what's amazing is some of the dominant players that have always come up on the first page of Google haven't even arrived yet at ChatGPT and they're not appearing in the results that these engines are coming up with. And some of the more innovative earlier stage players have invested heavily in kind of trying to, to skip that and jump straight over the Google search results and focusing on the AI results and again seeing huge amount of opportunity there if you can be that early disruptor. And we're starting to see small players disrupting the old disruptors that came around 10 years ago. I know, that's so true. That's so true. I mean commercially we have a real interest in solving this problem because for our business it's inescapable that it has to happen. At the moment, a large charge point provider might operate 20 or 30,000 charge points, but the problem we're solving for in the future is probably hundreds of thousand charge points by a single one. And so all of this has to change. It's just not going to be viable to kind of depend at that scale. So yeah, are there any other practical AI use cases that you've seen actually move the needle? For me, it's hard to actually pull them apart because in our business for the last nine months we've been on a massive journey and yet when I say, I would say at least half of our organization lives and breathes AI. I mean, we are all honest. Our CEO is the front, kind of is the guy leading from the front. He as us at C level, he's like, you will not be dinosaurs and sit on my team. You will be AI native. And we are all in this and we absolutely maximize the opportunity in front of us. So for me, it's actually a very hard question. When you ask me these questions, I'm like, which is the best answer? How do I pick and choose? We are really, it's so deeply embedded in our product and because it's so deeply embedded in our product, we're able to then connect our platform with our customer experience in a way that I think is probably beyond a use case. Actually. I think if you look at our approach to AI is no longer use cases. Our approach to AI is something that lives and breathes in your infrastructure and it is always on, it is always present, but it's not intrusive. And so it's solving problems for you, telling you it's solving them. But like maybe one of the interesting things might be and maybe I could have fast tracked, cut to the end. Eleanor Fraud I think fraud is going to actually be something that's going to be incredibly interesting for AI, for us as a company. EVs are becoming, or EV infrastructure is becoming a critical infrastructure. It's approaching that point. It's under much more attack from criminal activity. We've seen a real uptick in the last year and so we're investing heavily in AI to get out in front of that because you can close down the commercial risk for our customers. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking of some of the use cases that we've been really, that's really changed our business about a year or so ago. So we sit in this kind of revenue intelligence space and really trying to understand kind of what best practice looks like and are people getting better? Do they need more training? Where are the challenges? And we've always connected to things like mailboxes and calendars and CRMs. But when we started connecting to the last years worth of call recordings, it was like turning a television from black and white to color, just reanalyzing thousands and thousands of hours of call recordings related to hundreds and hundreds of opportunities for each customer and being able to kind of bring all of that together and summarize where the challenges are, where particular sellers are really struggling, where they need attention, and on the other side, where people are doing it really, really well. And the AI was able to really kind of condense all of that information into digestible content that we could actually use to push next actions and to increase the caliber or the consistency of how the sellers are actually going to market. And we didn't do this for one company, we did this for 700 companies. Companies. And it really was incredible to see that volume of data flowing through and the way it was able to really pinpoint where they're seeing consistent underperformance. Perhaps it's in asking about critical events or really getting under the skin of who the budget holders are or decision makers. And you could see consistently that the same sellers had the same challenges. And I couldn't think of any other way of doing that without listening to thousands and thousands of calls manually and it really a small change, but it was transformational for us. Us. I agree, it is transformational and maybe I take for granted what we've been able to achieve because the things that we can do now and things we can spin up and we use some of the off the shelf tools as well, we have gone and we have other tools like that. But I do think it's when you integrate your data just that the power that's unleashed is astronomical. I mean it has surprised. It surprised me if I'm honest. Yeah, no, I hear you. Every time I dive in, it's. It makes me smile. So let's move on from AI because everyone's talking about AI at the moment. I also see you've led multiple teams through kind of acquisitions and major transformation projects. So what do you think the hardest change management challenges are for revenue leaders in particular? The things that they underestimate when they're going through those types of changes. Yeah, I mean it's probably always the obvious and what seem like the simple things but aren't. I mean it's going to be alignment and prioritization. I mean I can come up with a lot more sort of sophisticated answers. But I think in go to market I think the thing you so easily fall victim to is doing too much or doing everything actually. Every channel, every message, every type of content, every and thinking that that's what the job is supposed to be. And I think the best go to market teams I've worked with are the ones that are really sharp on understanding what works and what doesn't work and ruthless about pursuing growth facts or ruth about really understanding what's working, what's resonating and like cutting away like pretty much everything else, you know, because, you know, I think you run the risk of sort of creating so much for your customers to digest either information or so many kind of customer journeys or so many like it's. You almost create friction and a gauntlet to try and get to the purchase point rather than making it, you know, laying out the red carpet and let me show you exactly where you need to be customer and keep it simple. So I think, you know, prioritization or deprioritization I think is one of the things and I think alignment. I think if the teams are aligned it's probably much easier to get to priorities than if they're not aligned and if they all understand the kind of the common goal. The North Star. I'm a huge fan of OKRs and the forcing function that they are TO I think OKRs are a great forcing function to encourage debate, alignment, discussion, what are we doing? And then the discipline of stopping and measuring and understanding. If it didn't work, why did it not work? As opposed to just sort of throwing it in the bin and not really understanding. What should we learn from that? Yeah, I mean, we were using OKRs. We've moved to what we call V2 mum at the moment. But it's exactly the same. Right. And just trying to align everybody to the same thing is absolutely crucial. And the number of times you walk into a commercial organization and you ask marketing, sales or success what ICP looks like and they all come up with very different answers. Answers. And I think, you know, absolutely agree with that alignment. And one of the data points I found really helpful when doing that is sales efficiency and, or and really distilling this down to kind of a dollars per day number. And what it does is it really shows the sellers look, you know, these, these deals that don't match ICP that you might eventually get over the line, but you know, just take far too long and, and actually end up churning. Look at the efficiency number on that one. Look at the dollars per day. You know, you signed it for. It was a $50,000 deal, but it took us a year to close it. Right. So over a year that was, you know, that, that meant that, that that deal was worth, I don't know, you know, whatever that works out to be. 100 bucks a day from a dollars per day perspective, while these other, these other motions are able to get through a sales cycle in, in 60 days and you know, are worth a lot more and they stay for a lot longer and they end up spending more money with us later. So if you can try and distill this down to a single digit and a number that tells them kind of how efficient that that type of mot. To close deals off as lost sooner I found is a big challenge, especially when they don't think they've got enough coverage to hit their quota. They think that actually holding onto more deals will somehow save them when in fact by getting rid of them, they'll free up their time to work on something more productive. So yeah, finding ways to give them the ammunition or give our sales leaders the ammunition they need to encourage the sellers to be a lot more brave about closing those deals off as lost and qualifying out opportunities. We see I go into hundreds of businesses now every year and we spend a lot of time looking at different territories, for example, and you can almost every single time the territory that is most Efficient is the one that qualifies out the most opportunities at the early stages. And you show it to them and you show the rest of the sellers. Look, you're skipping through these early stages and look at the pain you're generating for yourself. Late stage, all that slippage, all of that delayed, you know, deals that aren't real. Or perhaps you didn't have the right buying from the right stakeholders because you skipped through those early stages. While the territories that are a lot more diligent about that discovery and engaging with the right stakeholders early. When you get to late stage, you've already got a closed plan. They're already committed to it, they're already ready to go. And so, yeah, introducing that rigor around those gates and triggers that enter for exit and entry criteria for different stages and showing the sellers why you decided that these data points are important so that they buy into the principle behind, yes, we're going to do things in a much more consistent way because we know that'll lead to us making more money. And I find that's always a good message to leave them with. Could not agree with you more. Absolutely, absolutely. I know there is that temptation to keep the comfort blanket or the security blanket of the kind of bloated pipeline and not face the reality. But I will say the only situations I've ever turned around in a business is when you really face the reality and you examine it and then you figure out why the good ones win and figure out where to find more of them. Because when you've got all that noise in there, it's just. It's an awful lot. It's blocking your. You can't see what you're doing. I agree. Yeah. So do you think CRO is where you're going to stay now? I mean, you've taken on almost every other role I think we need to get. Get CEO on your title. But apart from that, do you think you'll stick with the CRO role moving forward or enjoy spending your time in revenue now? I do. I very much do. I never. I mean, I'll tell you this, I don't know whether I should admit that when I was young, my mother said to me, whatever you do with your career, do not work in sales. And I took that very seriously. So much so that when I did accept my first job, kind of in sales, I phoned her first to tell her before I signed the contract. Right. But it turns out that I enjoy it tremendously. I enjoy, you know, I once got a compliment from my favorite compliment. I ever got. And it probably reflects on me and hopefully not in a bad way. But I remember closing a deal or coming to the end of a deal with a North American company and the CTO turned around to me and said this felt like an intelligent sales cycle. And I thought, okay, I can do this, this I can do. I enjoy this. This is fun. We're having a good dialogue where we're getting to big wins, material outcomes. So, yes, I'm very happy where I am and I'm enjoying it tremendously. Okay, well then if we look ahead to 20, 26 and beyond, how do you think the CRO role will evolve? Gosh, I mean, I guess my answer may not be stereotypical in this because I'm not probably a stereotypical. You know, I'm not the typical CRO. I mean, there's no two ways about that. I, I think of the CROs like I know and the ones that I know to be who are succeeding most. I think there is something about how do you embrace the change that's ahead of us? I think there's some. I do. You know, I was just talking to our CEO about this about an hour or two ago and we were both kind of reflecting on, you know, has the last 12 months just been a moment and we're about to now plateau or are we all heading into something that's actually seismically about to shift? And I think the, I think the CRO role for the next while is going to be how do you make, how do you take all of this and turn it into the competitive advantage? I mean, how do you really lean in and be part of the leadership team of the companies that are probably going to be pushing ahead? And I think that whole. I was talking to a couple of very well established, very well respected companies and they were telling me about their approach to AI and it was very much a bolt on, on the side. And I thought, my gosh, you know, no disrespect, but where we're heading, like I can probably outpace you 10 one of my employees to 10 of your employees probably very soon. I think things are about to change. That's my current feeling on the matter. I think that's really valid. I think the days of the kind of gung ho CRO where you're, you know, just come and follow me, it'll all be fine. And I think we're behind us. And I think the, the more analytical, the calm kind of data driven approach is, the ones that are winning if you don't have that as A CRO. I think finding your right hand person to join you, that kind of Revops senior resource. I think too often we don't hire senior enough in that RevOps role. I think we end up with sales admins rather than real strategic revops experts that can really make the CRO look good. You want someone who's going to sit next to you who before you've got a board meeting tomorrow and you've told them you want half a dozen different data points and they walk in and don't just give you those data points, but they give you another three or four that you didn't ask for. But actually it helps you make your point in the board meeting and that level of strategic thinking either. If you haven't got it, go and get it next to you. Because I think Those are the CROs that are going to win moving forward. Yeah, I completely agree. I completely agree. Love people who make me look good. I will never reject that. But I do agree. And while I'm, I am relatively analytical and I do come from that background, I've got a PhD, I can do scientific analysis. I still have a right hand man who's incredibly analytical as well, who I know is reading the data, interpreting the data, looking for what it means and who's very fluent in sparring with me. And it does make a huge difference. Massive. No, I agree with all of that. Eleanor, it's been such a pleasure getting to know you and the business that you're running. I can't believe how the time's gone so far. If anyone who's listening to the podcast wants to reach out and engage with you, how do they do that? Oh, gosh, I guess LinkedIn. Eleanor O'. Neill. So LinkedIn's probably the best way to go. Good. And if you, if they mention the podcast, you'll accept the invite? Of course. Of course. Even more so. Eleanor, thank you so much for being on the podcast. We've learned so much today and I look forward to watching your journey as you move forward. Super. Thanks guys. Real pleasure. Take care. Thank you, Eleanor. Bye bye.