Tyler Will: The Death of Seat-Based SaaS: Why AI Changes Everything

Hello everybody and welcome to today's episode of the Revenue Insights podcast. I'm excited to be welcoming Tyler Will VP of Revenue Operations at Intercom. Tyler has built his career designing and scaling the systems behind high performing revenue organizations From Bain to LinkedIn to Intercom. He has led sales strategy and operations teams through global expansion, new go to market models, and now one of the most significant AI pivots in SaaS. At Intercom, Tyler sits at the center of revenue performance, leading the operational engine that supports sales and customer success as the company doubles down on AI powered customer service. Intercom was early to pivot towards AI, launching its AI agent Fin shortly after the release of ChatGPT and accelerated growth in the process. Today we'll explore what it really takes to operationalize AI inside a revenue organization. How to build sales ops that drive strategy, not just reporting. And what modern rev ops leaders must get right to scale efficiently. So without further ado, welcome Tyler, Greg, thanks for having me. Really appreciate the chance to have a conversation today. Well, thank you for being here. We're going to jump straight in and I'd like you to start by just walking us through your career journey from BAME to LinkedIn and then to Intercom and how you landed in revenue operations leadership roles. Yeah, absolutely. So I think a bit of a classic consultant to operator storyline for me. So out of undergrad I was a consultant at a company called Bates White Economic Consulting which did none of the things we do now, but still client services, highly analytical communication was important and that's really my foundation. And then came out to the west coast for my MBA and ended up joining Bain out of business school where frankly kind of by accident, I was exposed to go to market in tech. It wasn't something I'd set out to try to do, but I found I really enjoyed those problems. I enjoyed the people that I got to work with. It was exciting thinking about pricing strategy and partner programs and how you set up a new, you know, a new business or help a business transform from being a hardware only seller to services and software seller on top of that and everything that had to change internally for them and so got to kind of wet my, wet my appetite a little bit with, with that experience. And this is what I want to, this is what I want to go do. So after six years at Bain managing projects and then kind of running global teams and work there, decided to leave and joined LinkedIn where I first led the global sales development strategy and ops team and then moved on there and took on the LinkedIn Learning part of the LinkedIn Learning strategy in Ops team. And then we set up my kind of last two years a global SMB focused business within the Talent Solutions organization, which is kind of LinkedIn's the thing you all know LinkedIn from, they get, get harassed by recruiters and all that good stuff. But it was really fun to try to build something from scratch. And so I kind of stumbled upon an Intercom job post when I was thinking about something new. Literally saw it as like a sidebar advertisement on a revenue operations like chat discussion board kind of thing. I thought, oh, I know, I know Intercom, I should go check it out. And so went through the process and yeah, it's been almost, almost three years now being at Intercom. Wow, okay. And so that three years obviously includes this decisive pivot to AI. So from a revenue operations perspective, how did that change in product and positioning shift for you? Yeah, so I joined sort of right after ChatGPT, I think came out, what, October, November of 2022. I started in March of 2023 and then Fin launched publicly, I think in May of 2023. So I got two months to figure out what I was doing and then throw all that out and get started on trying to figure out how to sell AI. It's been an evolution, no doubt. There was not sort of oh, we flipped a switch and everything was ready moments. We started slow and not in a bad slow, but we viewed FIN early on as sort of an add on to the core product. I think the thesis is very much, you know, humans plus some AI to take the really painful parts of information, sort of informational queries, we call them away. What are your hours? What's your return policy? Can I, you know, can I cancel it? Like really basic stuff that no human should have to spend, you know, eight hours a day, five days a week responding to. And so we treat it a little bit that way. And a lot of our go to market was oriented around do all the things you used to do and like mention this thing and sell a little bit of it, kind of an attitude and approach and that was probably right for the market at the time. There was both a lot of enthusiasm for AI and probably everybody listening. And you certainly remember it's not quite a toy, a little more than a toy. But it was very hard to get anyone to think about committing their entire customer support stack to AI first and then maybe a little bit of humans at the end. It was very much the other way around. Like how do you get people interested? So now you Know we're talking about starter bundles and little dip your toe in the water kind of packages. And okay, now how do you get our sellers internally to be excited about selling something that might be only a 2000 or 3000 or $4000 add on that's going to take a lot of time to go sell. And so we spent a lot of time in the early days thinking about kind of packaging, thinking about incentives to get people out there to sell. If I told you could take 10 hours and you're going to get, you're going to get three grand for it at the end of the day toward your quota, the answer is exactly what you think, which is like, yeah, that's okay, you know, we'll pass. And so we spent a lot of time kind of early on that and now we've almost flipped completely to. You go out there and you talk about fin. You're selling fin. You're selling this notion of completely transforming your business around being, you know, an AI first customer support organization. That is the way you should orient things. Your roles should be aligned around supporting an AI agent delivering this. And if you need some seats because at some point you have certain customers you want to talk to as a human or there's still enough ticket volume, whatever you need to deal with that. But we're kind of at the point of like the seats are the add on now and the FIN is the core. And so it's been really interesting to think about how we pivot the team and reorganize the team and roles that have changed as you've gone through that transition. It sounds like a huge transition and again, I think you're ahead of the game. So I suspect 2026 is going to be a similar journey for a lot of SaaS businesses. Any tips, any gotchas that you can share with the community? Oh yeah, if it can be done wrong, we've probably done it wrong along the way. I think being really clear about on at least in the go to market side of things, like if sort of top down, like does your finance plan clearly lay out what your goal is? Does that goal get translated into quotas? Do the incentives behind the quota line up to what we want people to do? I'll give an example around that. We started our AE team and they had a pretty typical like here's a bookings goal for you. You retire that, please sell some AI. Didn't sell a lot of AI. Then we said, well what if we count the AI part as 2x, we call it fin2x was the program. So for every dollar you sell, you get two times the quarter return, which helps a bit. It certainly brought attention to things and then started getting people focused on that. And at some point along the way, and I may have the sequencing a little wrong in my memory, we added a logos component to this. And then we used to like, well, how do you define a logo? And we kind of went through that thing and then we said, well, let's make them just fin logos. And so now we have fin2x plus. You got a sort of small part of your thing is you got to sell a FIN logo. Well, when we started out, that was like, if you bought any fin, and then we go, well, any fin doesn't really, you know, doesn't result in a transformation of your business. That's which is at a minimum, it only counts if you buy certain amounts. And so we've steadily stepped up, I think, our incentive design around trying to support this notion of be AI first, be FIN first in both. Like I said, from the finance goal all the way down to the individual rep saying, I got to sell 10 new deals this quarter, this half that include at least this much fin. I got to think about how to do that. And now we're in the process of rolling out accelerators for people who can get really deep commitment in fin. What if you get a customer to commit to automating at least 25% of their support? That's a big deal. That makes the product stickier. There's bigger commitment. You start getting professional services involved. And so we're now really trying to push. Not the buy it and try it, but really commit, make a big commitment, and then we're partners in this journey. So the incentives matter a lot. And then you got to be able to track it all. How do you get pipe measurement? How do you know if you're. Yeah, right. You can look back at the end of the quarter and go, we did it, we didn't do it. But some things that are simple that in retrospect, like, oh, yeah, that would have been a problem, obviously. But we didn't have. You get a single dollar value at kind of stage two in your pipeline, and somebody inevitably goes, how much of that is fin? And we'd all look at each other and go, I don't know. They don't make a quote until stage four, where there's actually a line item on it. And so we've steadily been increasing our kind of operational rigor around that. You need to not just produce a total forecast But a forecast of, well, a portion of that is fin. Now we're building into Salesforce like a pre quote kind of thing. Here are the five products you can have. Just break this down for us. Nobody's being held to it, but make sure they add up. Don't tell me it's a $25,000 deal and have $40,000 of product on it. And those kind of things were just. It lets us be a little more rigorous in our inspection, a little bit more on top of things, a little bit more leading indicators. Then let's wait and see what happens when we get to the end of the quarter. It makes a lot of sense. We spend a lot of time talking to companies about introducing consistency in the go to market motion. Really getting under the skin of what the top performers are doing and trying to get others to replicate best practice. And again giving them that structure, that scaffolding to run to and having that structure in place just makes it a whole lot easier and it allows you to make small tweaks and changes and everybody kind of comes along with that journey. Everyone's doing things in different ways. Then it's almost impossible to introduce anything new. Yeah, that's right. I've got a, it's 56 printed pages. But this is our new like sales and success playbook that I've got. Like I can't read that much on my screen. Let me print it out and mark it up. And it is that level of depth where we've got 30 people working on this like end to end. How do we want you to go out and sell and how does that different and what's all the collateral along the way? And I think for people that we've been lucky in a sense that we were able to be incremental at times because we were so far ahead of the curve. I think if you're not ahead of the curve with launching an AI product or if you're fortunate, I guess to be in an AI native company, you got to throw out the incrementalism. You got to rip up your entire sales playbook and go, what does this look like? I've talked a lot about this in other places. Like the post sales motion is totally different. You think about seats like, cool, we provisioned everybody, everybody got the training. I gotta think about LinkedIn learning, right? It was like, did we provision everybody? Did we assign everybody some courses? And once you did that, the CSM's role was, I don't mean to be dismissive, like kind of done, right. You monitor the Usage, you'd have a QBR and say, this many people are looking at this many courses. Isn't this great? And now we're in this world where we're, you know, use 20 fin for 25%, use it for 30%, use it for, you know, all the way up to 50. That is a constant, almost commercial plus success motion that is much more technical, much more deeply ingrained in the business. Like the old way of seats provisioned, everybody knows how to use them. Seeing ten and a half months for the renewal conversation is like, it just doesn't work. And if you try to think, step your way toward that, this, it's both early in the game but like late in the game and getting this up and running, I think is going to be a real challenge. Like you got to kind of throw stuff out and just blank sheet of paper how you want to do everything right now. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. And what about the feedback loop? So, you know, a customer finds a new use case that they really enjoy using FIN for. How do we get that back into the sales team so they can start to reuse it? Yeah, there are a few things that are going on. One, we've actually launched publicly, our customer agent, we talked about it at our event last October. And that is really that vision of like, wait a minute, your customer interactions aren't just at the time of customer support. They're from your first visit to the website all the way through to your renewal and kind of success motions like, why would I want to interact with four different agents for that? Ultimately, there's a convergence of these and a lot of I think that decision and that design is actually exactly what you've talked about, which is there's a CSM or a relationship manager working with a customer. They go, hey, we've kind of hacked FIN into being our sdr. It's really good at taking leads that we would never have had a chance to talk to because it was an SMB or we're not big enough to afford an SDR team. Okay, that gets back to the product team. The product team goes. That makes sense. Why don't we try it ourselves? Kind of the dog food at Intercom, this is really helpful. Okay, now how do we productize it and bring it back in? And so I think we're seeing an acceleration of that, us being creative in our own applications of it. I think this is public, so not a problem. 81% of our conversations now are completely resolved by FIN at Intercom. I think it's involved in 90 some percent and there are a few that it kind of can't answer and kicks over to human. But like 81% is amazing. You think about that's hundreds of people that would have had to been hired and the cost of that. Okay, now you know, now we do that in the SDR world. There are all these leads from an event or from a webinar that you just kind of go. They convert at 2%, 1% if you're, you know, it kind of is good way, you know, way too low ROI for me to make for humans and frankly for humans suffer through. Hi, I saw you download, you downloaded our white paper. Don't you want to talk to somebody? And the answer is like I don't want to talk to somebody most of the time now like Fin doesn't care if you don't respond to its emails or don't pick up its phone or are rude in return. It just keeps on going. And so we're finding these really interesting feedback loops from our own applications plus what we just hear from customers kind of forking it themselves. So yeah, SDR agent is coming out. I think hot on the heels of that is an E commerce agent, which I think about how I spent a bunch of time yesterday on ChatGPT. Like I think about buying this but like what should I buy with it? And what if I could just do that on the, you know, on the website of the company and not have to. I'm doing it 9 o' clock at night, there's nobody to call or talk to or do anything else. And so now all of a sudden that's integrated. That's a hugely powerful thing. So we're really excited about the direction of travel on that and how do you go about encouraging the sellers to take on all these different use cases? Do you double comp for the initial three months on a new use case or how do you deal with that? Yeah, when we first introduced Fin, I mentioned the sort of two acts for the customer agent. We are, we're going to launch it as sort of a tiger team, an overlay. And I think that's going to be our model kind of going forward of a little bit of a tiger team to sell new product. We did it with the Fin that works on Zendesk or service cloud or things like that. Fin for platforms we call it, we're like let's, let's set up a team that learns how to sell it and what's different about that motion versus selling the entire intercom suite. So we're going to repeat that for customer agent. We found it to be really effective to get a few people who are really passionate about kind of cracking the code and then we propagate that through the whole organization with exactly what you said. It's your account. This person comes in as an overlay. We double comp if they sell the new product. So you're encouraged to be helpful and make introductions where introductions are possible. And that lets us move a little faster without distracting the team of very ambitious goals. In the core business, the obvious question that comes to mind is that what proportion of the revenue is land versus expand? It sounds like this new motion is all about expansion. If you can get the customers on board with a specific use case, then there's huge opportunity to then take them through and get their activity and different use cases rolled out. Yeah, yeah. And that's, I think, you know, the plan is roughly 75% expand on these kind of new use cases for the coming year. But yeah, but then it just takes a couple people hearing about it and all of a sudden they're, you know, we don't, our contract isn't up for renewal for whoever our incumbent service agent is. But we're, we're super interested in this other one and we hear great things and so I think we're, we'll quickly kind of introduce that new new business land case. But yeah, the belief right now is like, let's expand. Let's get feedback from trusted customers in a beta who are willing to kind of, you know, co design with us and learn that way. But these things quickly, quickly mushroom into oh, we need a bunch of AES to go, go hunt and figure out how to, how to sell this other people. Well, that was going to be my next question. Has it changed the shape of the go to market team? Have you got more resources now because there's such great expansion opportunities? Do you need less A's but more CSMs or do you effectively have AES called CSMs that just go in and do the expansion fees? How have you re architected the structure? We've so far we haven't really rearchitected the roles we still have. We have kind of a hunter farmer model. We have an AE who lands the new deals they hand them over to depending on the size and the nature of the company. You know, either a high touch CSM or a scaled csm plus a relationship manager who's a little bit more commercially oriented. We are right now adding headcount to that. So if you're looking for a job at a as a seller in AI Forward company. Check out our many job posts. But a lot of the discussion now is in exactly what you said, like what's the mix? When I started at Intercom, I think, I think we had 20 CSMs. We're going to have a couple hundred by the end of this fiscal year that just started and that is a product of that completely different post sales engagement model. You can't. Everybody's provisioned. No one's provisioned on fin. Fin is a constant iterate and learn and go back and design a new role that supports the agent and manages the agents and that person isn't sitting around waiting for something to do. That person does not exist at most companies. And so how do we help you through that process and get, get comfortable going from informational queries to procedures which are. Imagine I was using a bank example. I need to be there for some reason physically. What's the closest one to me and what are its hours? Easy informational query. Totally different one. When you go, my bank card cracked in half. I need a new one and I don't want to have to talk to a person because we're busy 9 to 5 when it's actually open. So I want to go in and now it's got to verify who I am. It's got to make sure that I have, you know, I or you has the rights to request a new card for that, that the new card is, you know, tied to the right account, that it's replacing the old account. Like now you're writing into systems, you're reading systems, you're getting security access. And so that CSM team now has to guide people through that entire journey from what are your hours to you're going to transfer money from here to here. You're, you know, you're doing this and that. It's like, are we really sure we want to do that? That's a. So worst thing that happens. If you're told the wrong hours and then you go home, that's it. You transfer $50,000 to the wrong account, you got a huge problem. And so that journey is one that I think some companies are like, we got to do this. And others are like, I really want you to hold my hand as we go through this. So that was the mix that obviously raises the question around services. Are you outsourcing services to a third party or are you doing your own services on top of. Yeah, we. So we have a professional services team that plays two roles. One is in house delivery and then the second part is exactly what you're suggesting. Managing a vendor network that will be our partners and they're a key part of this. We just can't hire people everywhere in every country to be on site as necessary. And so yeah, we love our partner network. We were sales kickoff two weeks ago and they were there with us. And so that's a key part of what we're trying to do is build that out so that whether it's implementation or you've actually been an Intercom customer for three years but haven't used FIN before now, how do we get you back up and running and help you think through that transition yourself? So yeah, professional services. We were building out our R and D services team, kind of the forward deployed engineer hot job of the moment or one of the hot jobs of the moment. So that is a completely new team. Our sales engineering team is getting more and more technical. You have to be in a way that we didn't in a seats, here's how to integrate it kind of world. So yeah, a lot of upskilling, a lot of investment in that motion in particular. That makes a lot of sense. I remember talking to an AI company, an AI first company and they were very excited about the fact they had 80 different agents. And it was like, well, hold on, most customers are going to struggle just to get one up and running and really operating. And so I think perhaps one of the challenges is the sellers are going to be really excited about all these different use cases that they can take to market. But they really need to get good at their qualifications and you know, if they can get that first one over the line, then everything else will unlock later. So introducing what kind of qualification methodology do you use at Intercom? Yeah, we have the Medic Medpic kind of standard and we've been doing a bunch of enablements. Again, I got my very analog printed file to review sitting next to me here for this week we've actually split one of our former sales stages into two parts. We found that kind of the solution review piece was too broad. You'd have a SMB customer who wanted 10 seats and $5,000 a fin spending four days in that, a demo, maybe even AE LED. And then you've got an enterprise customer doing a three month POC and they're both stuck in stage three. And so we've actually split stage three with much clearer, like how do you get into stage three? What do you need to know five or six things and then do we put them on this sort of Fast path or do we put you on a long. Like, we're going to prove this out and we're going to involve sales engineers, we're going to involve R and D services, and that, that's, that goes live on March 2nd. So we're, you know, enabling the whole field on, hey, this is going to be much tighter. There are going to be fields in Salesforce that used to breeze over and now you're not going anywhere until you, you know, until you've populated them and, and gotten that ready. So we're really trying to tighten the criteria because the last thing you want is somebody who's kind of AI curious and then you spend thousands, tens of thousands of dollars on kind of technical support and then they go like, this is super interesting. Thanks. We're going to figure out what it is we really want to go do here. And so that's just going to be much better. And that requires discipline in the sellers too, to be willing to say, this isn't going anywhere, I'm going to cancel this deal. And I think for a long time people just kept stuff alive and it didn't require that much to keep it going. Just move the close date, call them once a week, send them an email. Now all of a sudden, there's this whole apparatus that goes around each of those deals and it's very costly if we're not being really rigorous and kind of what's real and what's not. Yeah. So those who are watching or listening in on the podcast will know that we do these benchmark reports every year. And we're about to launch the 26th benchmark report. And we saw there was. It's really the narrative of the new report is about this idea that there's a tale of two AI approaches. And what we're seeing is there's the kind of the old school kind of brute force approach where businesses are investing heavily in using AI for top of Funnel. And the impact it had last year was dramatic. We're talking a top of Funnel increase on average by over 60%. I mean, that's huge. In a single year, the volume of inbound leads, the volume of activity at top of Funnel grew by 60%. The challenge is for those organizations, we saw that the volume of deals they closed actually went up, but the revenue per seller dramatically dropped by just over 25%. Right. So huge amounts. So they're being very busy, but they're actually spending a lot of time on stuff that's not really ICP and very smaller opportunities. The teams that are using AI to drive efficiency, that are trying to use AI to introduce consistency, know at using AI to understand what best practice looks like and really introducing kind of gates and triggers around the stage progression so that they don't allow progression unless we've understood there's a critical event or they've got a budget or we've got engagement with the finance Persona or whatever the issue might be. We've seen that those that are using AI in that format, we've seen are actually closing slightly less deals, but the revenue Persona has gone up dramatically. Okay. Because they've been able to go up market, they're able to target the right Personas and the right customers, and they're being a lot, a lot more strategic about the way that they're going to market. And I think there's a real danger that people are using AI to just get busier and busier, but they're not necessarily making any more money. And I think it's very easy to fall down that road. But I think the point you raised there about, look, you can still service these smaller deals, but you can let AI do the vast majority of that work. Might be a good middle ground. Yeah, I think that's spot on and great to hear. We didn't plan this, but that's what my team is trying to figure out. How do we do this? We're big clay fans in sourcing kind of the right target lists, but historically, we've let our. We have SDRs for inbound and BDRs for outbound at intercom. And the. The BDR team has. It's sort of like, here's some accounts you may want to. You may want to call, but like, just go, you know, just go. Hit a number. And, you know, now we're like, no, no, no, that doesn't work. We, you know, we can source. The best possible list is that in our. In our icp that convert the high, you know, the highest rates. And then we see. I'm going to forget the numbers. Exactly. But we're looking just a week or two ago like they're, you know, five or six times the average contract value. If you're targeting the ICP, the conversion rate is, you know, instead of 3%, it's three and a half percent, which sounds tiny, but then you're like, wait, no, that's 16% higher. You know, improvement in your conversion rate. That makes a big difference over the, you know, over the course of a year and over the course of, you know, 20 or 30 people prospecting. And so we're able to target that. We're building AI driven machine learning models on propensity scores for those accounts and that constantly iterating as opposed to once a year we refresh our account scoring model and that takes three months and you hope it's right and then you kind of keep an eye out. It's like that's just a constant feedback loop. And for SDR managers, I think there's always been a lot of art to the coaching. There's been a bit of science. How many calls should you make, how many, you know, what should your connect rate be? But we're building out right now a an AI like propensity prospecting, quality score every single outreach. Now we can score and put that on a dashboard in front of a manager who can sit down with the BDR and go, you know, there's still art to this job. Absolutely, 100%. But here's what you're doing across your accounts that we've cherry picked for you and are the best accounts. Like, you never follow up with people, you're going after the wrong ICP or are the wrong contacts at those accounts. And you can kind of go down this list and get much more methodical, much more efficient. And now hopefully the job is more enjoyable. Like that's a, that's a tough job. You hear no 99, 95% of the time every day. Like, what if that's only 70% of the time? Like that, you know, that's a huge, huge improvement. And so we're really excited about what we can do, as you said, at the top of the funnel, and not have it just be everyone's busier and no one's more productive. Yeah, I think that's exactly the right approach. It's fascinating to hear where you're at in the field. So tell us a bit more about how you're judged. So what does good look like? Right, because the market could rise or fall, but you still need to get on with your job. And the thing with Rev Ops is it's never quite done right. It's like going to the gym. Right. You can't just do it once and you're done at it. It's a constantly evolving and improving exercise. So how are you judged on the work that you're doing and how do you then kind of report back on progress? Yeah, this is, I think, one of the biggest challenges for Revops leaders. If someone has cracked this, I'd love to hear it. If you're thinking of being a Revops leader, be Prepared for, never quite figuring it out. But I always find it funny. We work with probably the most easily quantifiable performance job anywhere in business. You had a quota. Did you hit your quota or not? We know exactly, you know, we know exactly how good you are. Maybe not by the quarter, but at least over some period of time. That takes some of the variability out of these things. And repops is one of the hardest jobs to figure out if you, you know, if to quantify and if you've done a good job or not. Like, is forecasting accuracy good? Yeah, like, yes. But I'd also say if you, if you on week one called 70% of your target and hit 70% of your target, like, what did you spend 13 weeks doing to try to turn that number? I'm not actually impressed with accuracy of a pretty miserable quarter. And then delivering a pretty miserable quarter suggests you have no idea what levers to actually go pull. So forecasting accuracy matters. Quotas were the quota set, right? So they delivered plan and capacity was right. There's lots of these kind of, yeah, we were involved in setting a target or we were involved in setting a plan for something or figuring out how to operationalize a plan. But we can't make the seller sell. We can't make the, you know, we can't make the people click on the marketing, you know, the marketing content or whatever. And so a lot of it for us is a little bit of like, hey, how does, like sort of, what's the CSAT of our customers? Do they, you know, internally, like, do they feel like they're getting the support they need and what does that look like? Does the business run smoothly? Do we have the right cadences in place? When I sit down with you, are we partners in the business? Do you have a point of view? I think one of the big mistakes revops ICs and even some leaders make is they view themselves as ticket takers or a service provider. And I think the best RevOps leaders are those who go, yeah, you carry the quota and I don't. But this is our business and I have an opinion about our business. And I don't view it as like, I'm going to sit here and wait for you to ask me for stuff. I'm going to go like, did you know about this? And here's what I think we ought to do, and here's a creative idea, and I know a guy who's doing a thing that might apply to us. What do you guys think? That notion, I think, is hard to Figure out you had four good strategic ideas and therefore you exceeded expectations. This core doesn't quite translate, but there is a. It's so overused now. There's a sort of revops vibes kind of score that I think is almost the best way to assess these at times. Plus a, hey, we set out and we try to do this each quarter. Here's our roadmap. What are our priorities? What are things we're going to deliver? Do we deliver those and were those things successful? Yeah, that makes sense. And do you report into the CRO or do you report into finance? Yeah, I report into our president of go to market. So Archna owns Demand gen through customer success and customer support. And so I'm one of her. One of her direct reports. So we're kind of a go to market world. And then there's finance and then there's the product side of the house. It really is fascinating to see. There seems to be kind of an even split at the moment with Revox reporting either into finance or commercial, but I'm not going to comment on which one I prefer, but it's fascinating to see how it plays out. Yeah. And I think the most dangerous one is when you report to the person whose quota you're setting. That's the situation to look out for is like, you know, you'd hope most sales leaders are kind of, you know, good faith, like we need to do the right thing for the business and even if that's a challenging plan. But our big joke is if you ever walk into a group and present the quotas and everybody walks out and it's like, okay, they're too low. You know, there isn't a big argument, they're too low. And so that's always a tension in that. And so I'm fortunate in that I am peers with the person my team sets the quotas for. And so that's. That's quite helpful. Very good. Well, look, we're almost at the end of our time, Tyler, but I always like to ask about kind of future looking. When you think about the future of RevOps and that function and how it's evolving, what do you think is what are we going to see over the next 18 months? Yeah, you know, I think Rev Ops sort of started out whatever 10 or 15 years ago as, you know, very much a generalist kind of thing. A lot of former consultants like, like myself in there who just go solve a bunch of problems but aren't necessarily the experts of things. And as it's, I think in Many ways for the better, professionalized. You've seen more and more specialization. A comp expert, analytics and data science people. I only know about customer support. I only know kind of these things. And I think we're going to shift back to the generalist world. I mean I've got like sitting here is my terminal for Claude and things that three or four months ago I would have said, hey, hey, analytics team, I'd really love to see this. What do you have on your plate? Let's prioritize it. I just prompt it and sit around. And now for the really important stuff, we're going to double check and we're going to do some good auditing but for some really basic stuff. And that basic stuff is getting more and more complicated. I'm self serving in a way I haven't self served since I was three or four years out of college as an ic, all of a sudden it becomes about can you ask the right questions? Do you know how to tie these things together? Can you understand how the quota affects the reps, which affects what kind of deals they sell that the CSMs have to sell. That's a lot of siloed stuff today in a lot of places. And I think those silos just break down more and more. Well, effectively you'll still have specialists and siloed, but they're just going to be agents. So you'll effectively be a manager of a whole group of agents that are specialists at all of these individual topics and they'll all be delivering you the results you're looking for. But I'm looking forward to that vision. I agree with you. I think that's where we're going and we're all going to become managers of agents as we move forward and we'll see how that evolves until, until we don't even have to do that anymore. And then, and then we're all, we're just sit on a beach. Tyler, thank you so much for joining us today. If anyone who's listening in on the podcast wants to get in touch with you, how do they do that? LinkedIn is the best way to do it. I'm a dedicated alumni and happy to stay there. So please connect with me, send me a note. I love meeting with people and talking about this stuff, so very good. And if they, if they mention the podcast, you'll accept the invite, right? 100%, yes. Very good. Well, again, thank you so much for joining us today. Can't believe how fast we got through it and really enjoyed the insights and yeah, looking forward to watching Intercom's progress. Great. Thanks. Appreciate it. Appreciate the time. Thanks, everyone. Take care.