Ep. 59: Mazunte

I explain Mazunte as a culture . It's a group of people . I understand that we have restaurants , we have markets , we have catering , we have wholesale , but we're not really like . I mean , we are a brand , but I don't think of it that way , the way I would explain .

It's a group of people who really , really care about quality , we care about humans and we try to represent Mexico and not be restricted by the history of Mexico , because if you're restricted , you become a prisoner to the word authentic . It's important to be an authentic person , but if you try to just be authentic to everything you do with food , it's limiting . So we want to be creatively inspired by Mexico , not restricted . Welcome to Retail Intel , the podcast dedicated to shining a spotlight on the most innovative and rapidly growing brands in the retail sector .

I'm your host , brian Sheehan , and I'm thrilled to guide you through the dynamic world of commercial real estate , where we explore the latest trends , groundbreaking concepts and the stories behind today's most successful retail businesses . On this episode , I'm excited to have Josh Wamsley , founder of , with us . Josh has an inspiring story of entrepreneurship and innovation in the restaurant industry . is known for its authentic Mexican cuisine and vibrant dining experience , bringing a taste of Mexico to the Midwest .

I'm eager to learn more about his journey and the story behind . So I'd love to start with your background . Can you tell us more about your career journey and what led you to start ? Yeah .

So I was studying journalism at USF , st Pete so the one on the water and I essentially was living on the beach in Sunset Beach and I knew that once I graduated I have to do something , otherwise I wouldn't leave the beach . So I decided to move to Europe and I studied to get my TEFL , which is teaching English as a foreign language . I did that for about it's about a four week class course , did that and then I traveled around Europe and then I moved to Korea . For two years I was teaching in Korea , getting ready to move to Taiwan , when I decided that I wanted to open a Mexican taqueria or a little taco shop , because there were none in Cincinnati .

So I moved to Oaxaca , mexico , because I had gone to this restaurant in Seattle , carte de Oaxaca , and I had visited my sister out there . We went to the restaurant and I knew the moment I ate that food . It was , um , it was , uh , enchiladas with mole . I was like I've never , ever , had had Mexican food of this quality , of this caliber , of this flavor profile .

So Oaxaca is the place I want to go teach English and learn . So I moved to the small town in the middle of Oaxaca . I had access to the mountains , I had access to the city . I had access to the coast , which is obviously I named it Mazunte , and I would spend the weekends either at the beach at Mazunte , traveling around Mexico or cooking with various people throughout the town and discovering the markets .

I came back to Cincinnati in 2011 and my business partner and I his name's John . I told him before I left this is what I want to do . I'm going to travel in Mexico , I'm going to learn all the food . I'm going to come back and we'll build this restaurant .

My dad can essentially craft it . He's incredibly talented , creative . I'll be the contractor , we'll raise money and we'll build this little taco shop . And John was always on board , and so we've still been business partners ever since , and we opened in 2013 .

That's incredible . So your experience all over the world led you to this place in Mexico . You had some experience with the cuisine before that , but you went down there essentially learned how to cook , had a vision to build open a restaurant , yeah , and what was the connection with Cincinnati ? So I grew up in Cincinnati , I had left for college and so I was coming back to visit my family , and when I came back , I tried to go to this taco shop .

And it was , they were just shitty tacos . And I was like I can do better , and I not in an arrogant way , just an honest , you know , more of a thoughtful way . And that was the first time in my life where this vision was unfolding in my mind . As I was in the middle of the night , I'd wake up and I was just this .

It was unfolding , I could see it and I , I told my parents , I , we were walking down the street one time , kind of , and I was making a decision would I go to Taiwan or Vietnam ? And I was going back and forth and I just like , I think I'm going to move to Mexico , and it was 2010 . And I that's what I did . I'm curious how did you explain it to your partners and how do you explain the brand to people who are unfamiliar with it even today ?

Yeah , that's a good question . I don't think of as a brand . Uh , that , probably , yeah , maybe , maybe I should . It's , I'm not , I think , the greatest one in terms of like branding .

Um , I explained Mizunte as a culture . It's a group of people . I understand that we , we have restaurants , we have markets , we have catering , we have wholesale , but we're not really like . I mean , we are a brand , but I don't think of it that way .

Uh and so , but it but it the way I would explain the Zunte . It's a group of people who really , really care about quality , we care about humans and we try to . We try to represent Mexico and not be restricted by the history of Mexico , because if you're restricted , you become a prisoner to the word authentic . It's important to be an authentic person , but if you try to just be authentic to everything you do with food , it's limiting .

So we want to be creatively inspired by Mexico , not restricted . Well , that's a good point , and we talk a lot about authenticity on this podcast and I was thinking , you know , this concept of authentic Mexican cuisine still niche in a lot of communities . I mean , you could probably go to most small mid-sized markets in America and they wouldn't have the experience of , you know , ever dining in a place like Mizunte . So what were some of your biggest challenges ?

Opening the first location and then also expanding it to additional locations ? Yeah Well , the biggest challenge up in the first location is number one . I had no idea what I was doing as a restaurateur , as a contractor . So you have all of that .

I mean I , we , we built it ourselves , I was the contractor , I was driving the city crazy . I would show up and ask him questions . I'm like God , dude , I mean it was , I was . So I mean , the good thing is is I am , I'm so curious and very persistent , which was , I mean , sort of like qualities you need if you're going to open your own business .

But I would not , I wouldn't give up , which was great , but in hindsight it would have been so much better to have had a contractor , because it took so much of my energy to build the restaurant that by the time we opened it , I was already exhausted . So now I've built it , we've opened it , and now I need to learn how to run a restaurant and I need to relearn how to lead people , Because you can't manage people . You can lead them , but you can't manage them . You can manage products , you can manage protocol , but you have to lead people .

It's different if you walked and I said hey , brian , my name is Josh , listen to me , today I'm going to manage you . Or , hey , brian , my name is Josh , follow me . Today I'm going to lead you . Fundamentally different .

So I had , and I hadn't led people for a while since I was , you know , a teacher . So to get back into that mindset was hard . After , after building the Zinta , that was a pretty big challenge , um , finding the location was not that was . That was pretty .

I , I , our Ken Arbino he's our broker , he's an amazing dude , best broker in Cincinnati by far , um , and he helped us find it . We found it , you know , pretty much on day , like the first day , um , and then we negotiated the lease not fun , I'm sure , as you know , uh , but I learned a lot through that process as well . What was it about ? The life , the location that stood out to you ?

On this one , we had a location plan , which is probably in hindsight , not in hindsight . Making a location plan was the best thing I ever did , and the location plan I madeinnati is . I wanted to be um , basically 20 minutes from um , from anywhere in the the tri-state area . So 20 minutes from mason , 20 minutes from the west side , 20 minutes from downtown , 20 minutes from the east side , everywhere , right , um , which is exactly why I put it uh , off of red .

I wanted to be near a really busy intersection , red Bank and Madison . I wanted to be in a kind of a random spot where it could be , you know , a novel discovery for people . And I wanted to be in the middle of five of the most affluent neighborhoods in Cincinnati . So we'd have , like , basically , five minutes from each neighborhood .

So we'd have we'd definitely we'd always have people to be able to spend money , because , I mean , when I was designing it , it was 2011 and 12 . And , dude , the economy was a little different back then and I was moving back from Mexico , aware of that , you know , and I mean , I was broke . I had 60 bucks in my bank account . I know how this is going .

So you weren't specifically looking for co-tenants per se , that you thought , oh , I need to be next to them or near this . It was really kind of what does the trade area look like ? Yeah , yep , how do I fit right in the middle of that ? Yeah .

And how and how quickly it is . I remember when I first met you I was like where do you live ? You're like . I was like how long does it take you to get it ?

You're like seven , eight minutes . I was like where do you live ? You're like Blue Ash . I was like how long does it take you to get here ?

You're like seven , eight minutes . I was like perfect , what were some of the key elements that you focused on to bring the vision to life ? I mean , it's a really so . The first location's really unique and for people that haven't been there and experienced it , maybe you could explain a little bit about it .

But like , how do you translate your design vision into a physical restaurant ? So when I was , when I had the vision , I , when I was in Mexico , I would teach . I taught at a university and I would often just put on a movie for them , uh , like a wedding crashers or something Right , so they would be watching the movie in class and then I would draw out , uh , the vision , um , and so I had . I basically just drew it out one time and I knew I wanted a really , really small space and it was an L shaped counter , uh , which was based on my favorite restaurant in the world , which is Kaka'i by the Sea in Tokyo , and it was just like a little the first part of that restaurant .

There was an L-shaped counter where people were cooking behind . There were tables in front , so I based it on that and I also wanted you to order at the register and drop the food off , and so I designed that essential . So I took that drawing and I built everything off ofxico . So the people there taught me to use what you have , whether that was tree stumps , recycled wood , recycled everything you take .

You take what other people throw away and you and you use it . So we knew that that was our vision to reutil , to utilize whatever we could . I would go on craigslist free every day and dictate people's wood . So we did everything possible to repurpose materials , wood , anything we could , and that's what you see at Mizunte .

Obviously , I needed to make it feel like Oaxaca . So when you walk in , the first station you see is the salsa bar station with the comal and she's making tortillas . That was intentional , um , and I originally had drawn that in the back , but the when I was in high school I worked at Kenwood country club and my chef there his name was Jay and he , he helped me . When I came back I reached out to him and he said hey , I really think you should put that Call mall station in the front .

When people walk in they need to see it right away . Uh , he's a chef at Terrace Park Country Club now , but he really helped me . Like , make sure that that moved up . So , surrounding yourself with people and getting you know different ideas , you have your vision , but sometimes someone can say the simplest thing that tweaks your vision and it makes it even better .

It's so true and I come back to this kind of idea or notion about authenticity and the fact that you were learning what you were learning and seeing in Oaxaca , you were able to take that same call it a philosophy , I guess and you know , use that to help design the space . I mean , mean it really created a unique and interesting environment that yeah , it's a story . Often , yeah , it's the story . That's what makes it authentic , because it's a real story .

It's something I experienced and I was able to bring back into . When you walk in , you know it's meaningful , you can feel it so you've been able to take a successful you know , grow a successful first location , expand that into additional locations . Can you talk about that process ? How did you go about ?

You were very intentional about where and how you wanted to grow this business . And in some ways , in some ways , yes , in some ways , no actually grow this business and in some ways , in some ways , yes , in some ways , no , actually so the the . At the beginning , we were going to just , um , do Mizunte , basically one Mizunte per city , essentially , and that would . And , uh , and my business partner I met in early 2016 .

Um , and , and I said , and he was like hey , you know , I , I don't , we're not really following the plan , and I'm like you're right , we're not really like this . So , but I , I'm not the guy to tell the same story again and again and again . So , if you want to , if you , if we want to bring other people in , absolutely We'd have to like , maybe give up some control . If there's a company that wants to come and rip these off , I'm okay with that , but I can't , I won't be the guy to lead that charge .

My , I like to tell new stories and to do more unique . My , my , my goal right now , personally , is not to just to be a CEO of a company that is running the same kind of restaurant in different cities . I'm not saying that that can't happen from the same day that is running the same kind of restaurant in different cities . I'm not saying that that can't happen from a Zoom day .

I'm just not the guy for that , truly . So I want to grow organically , and we decided that that was the way we were going to grow and we opened . But what happened was we opened the Mercado . We had to open Mercado because the health department came in .

We were cooking outside , we had outgrown the space and she said , dude , you need , you need to move and get a new kitchen . So we went to that . We went down the street uh , victor is our landlord , is an amazing dude , he owns kismet , all these other places . Uh , and when we found this place , uh , we started renting it and we built a kitchen there .

Then we took over the back , um , and we did more production . And then we then we made the mercado in 2017 . So so , once you got to 2017 , you had mizuta , korea , and then you had mizuta mercado , producing all the catering . That was out of necessity .

I always had the vision for the mercado , but I thought it was going to be right next to mizuta . And then , and then we found the building downtown , because I knew I wanted to tell a new story about , basically , mexico City . I was traveling around there a lot , and I wanted to tell the story of Mexico City and maybe more of like the talkery is there and sort of like the urban style , and we found this building downtown . We purchased the building .

We built Mizzou Decentral in 2019 . And then we had it for six months and then the pandemic hit . And we had it for six months and then the pandemic hit and it was . We built it for a lunch , right , so that was .

But it's perseverance . Okay , the world's not going to always just cater to what you know , to your needs or your desires , so you have to adapt . We all went through that everybody . And then so as we were .

But in the meantime , we were developing this pretty big wholesale strategy because Kroger we were in Kroger . They said , hey , will you guys go to new stores ? Dorothy Lane came to us and all of a sudden , we're in 15 stores and we have this whole wholesale retail program portfolio . And then at that point , we people were reaching out to us .

Obviously , you know they reach out to us a lot for different locations . But in 2021 , we had this opportunity this hotel , these guys were building this hotel in Lexington and they reached out to us . They said , hey , would you be interested in doing this project in Lexington , and so we really looked into that . It took us about five or six months to make that decision and we went .

We went to Lexington a lot , um , very cool guys , really creative . Um , and we wanted , we liked it because it was it wasn't up and coming area , which is where we want to put in the zoom day , not really in the middle of everything . We want people to discover the Mizun days , um , so we liked that part of it and we , we opened in 2024 mazunte bodega and labrasa . Labrasa is an event center in lexington , um , and then bodega is the bodega , is the , the restaurant , and it's this .

Bodega is actually . Bodega means wine cellar , in spanish . We think of it as the corner , the corner shops in new York , um , but we do , we're trying to , we're trying to like sort of like thread , that needle , I guess we offer wine , um , and we it's also full service . We've never done that on a zoo day .

So it's totally different concept . Same food but different concept . And I'm curious you know what the future looks like . What are your growth goals over the next five years ?

What's a concept that you haven't opened that you think would fit well into this ? You know Josh's world of Mexican restaurant store retail experiences . Right now the the for the next five years . I just want us to focus on what we have .

So I want us to grow internally , um , I want to make sure that we , we , we learn really how to run a full-service restaurant in lexington , um , and we develop the catering and the events there , because in lexington we , I want to develop the full service because we have a bar . We've never had a bar before . I want to do that and I want to develop the catering program and the events . You can come into the front and you can also rent uh bodega for special events , anything you want , um .

And then I want to make sure that we do the same thing with centro's breakfast . I always wanted centro , the downtown location , to be a breakfast spot , more of a cafe style , where you'd come in , you would get coffee , you would get conchas , you would get breakfast , tacos , tortas , anything you wanted . I wanted that to be the spot where you could have coffee in the morning , al pastor , lunch a margarita , and the afternoon . And that's what Centra's becoming , which I'm excited about .

We have to continue to , to build our wholesale that's . That's obviously the easiest one for us to scale . People always ask Brian . They're like , hey , why don't you just reproduce Mizunte ?

Reproduce Mizunte . And my answer is it's a lot easier to replicate guacamole than it is to replicate Mizunte . Uh , so we're going to continue to do that Um and um and just hone in on what we have . So I don't foresee any new ventures in the next five years .

I'm not saying that won't happen , but , uh , that is not something that John and I or the team that are actively talking about . How do you think about the different partnerships that you're going to form and and be it with you , you know Kroger , or with Kerrigan , or you know Anybody else how do you think about those types of partnerships ? Alright , so with Kroger , basically Elias soon . Eli's called me one day and if you guys never met Elias , he's hilarious , he's like dude , come with me to Kroger , we'll open it together .

Eli's Mizzou day next to each other and I was like , yeah , so I didn't think of it , I was just like he was my friend , it was fun , a little upfront cost . It allowed us to develop systems , to build , you know , to learn how to like kind of grow Uh and and then with with Dorothy Lane , they're usually we just people come to us and we either say yes or no . Uh , and Dorothy Lane , calvin kept coming in . He said , hey , I really think this need to be good .

And , dorothy Lane , I said awesome . With Kerrigan , um , I was friends with Jeff , um and , uh , he was the owner and we had talked about , you know , doing a margarita . He said , hey , let's try to do a margarita here and we spent a lot of time developing that recipe . But as we developed that it was , they were using their own agave spirit .

You can't call it tequila if you're making it here . And they had their own triple sec and we tried and we got it close sometimes , but there was never the consistency , um , and so we , what one of our biggest mistakes is ? When you have an idea , it is cool , it's a cool idea to can something , um , and then we're like we'll can it and then we'll use it as our in-house margaritas , but it wasn't the same , and so next time it's better just to keep your in-house margarita and then take the small steps .

So if you want a can , that's cool , do that , but don't , don't stop making your in-house margarita until you know it's exactly the same quality , same consistency . So the customers were disappointed , obviously , and we went back to our normal margarita . Um , and then Kerakin is still open , but they don't serve our margarita anymore . Okay , I guess thinking about you know innovation and that's a good example of one where you tried something different and you know , before you replace something that is working really well , that people come to the restaurant for you know really love , like , make sure you get that that new thing to where it equally replaces that I get that .

I'm thinking about technology and and other innovations in the space . Has there been anything kind of big that has really impacted your business that you might point to for somebody who wants to expand ? That's got a vision for you know how am I going to grow my , my restaurant , my um ? my markets in terms of like technology specifically .

Yeah , has there been anything that you know you guys have rolled out could be a point of sales system or um , even you know you talked about how you you try to lead people , not just manage them . Yeah , well , I mean , it's still a couple . Uh , we switched to toast , which everyone uses toast , toast is toast , is compatible with a lot of various things . That helped .

That helped us in terms of reporting , uh , but we use restaurant three , six , five . Uh , will , he was he 365 . Will , he worked in Mizunte . He was our intern and then he became our first ever controller Amazing dude , still one of my great friends .

He helped us with Restaurant 365 . And we use that now . Julie , she runs the accounting and finance . That is a really , really good software .

I recommend that specifically . It'll help you , it'll help everybody as they continue . It has so many programs on there that you can work with in terms of scheduling . Just you name it , it's got it .

So , r365 , major , major software . Maybe the last question for you here is what advice would you give to someone that's looking to start a business in the restaurant industry ? All right , okay , I want to give really genuine advice , no bullshit . So it's when I meet with people and they ask me that question , I always tell them if you're going to start , you know , do you have a family ?

And if you're going to do this , the first year or two , if you're really starting a restaurant , you're not going to see much of your family . So be aware of that . Like you won't , you really won't see them to like that much . And and maybe I'm going about that from a negative visualization standpoint but I think it's better to go that way , because if , if , in fact , you can see your family and you do have the time , that's great .

But if you go into it with that mindset , they need to accept that . Because if you are starting a business and you don't tell your loved ones that like the toll it's going to take , and you don't tell yourself that you're not going to be prepared when the weight hits you , you're going to be drained every day by scenarios , by people , by sales or by lack of sales , and you have to stay the course . So you need to . That's number one .

And then you always have to tell yourself that , remind yourself that dreams are really exciting to chase , but exhausting to maintain . So once you achieve that success , trying to maintain it is really exhausting . So just when you have this idea that you hit the top coaches go through this all the time . They win a championship and then they're like man , I'm still not as satisfied and that is something that you have to sort of come to terms with .

There's a lot of awareness and acceptance that comes with it , but knowing the toll it's going to take on you and I remember in the beginning of Mizunte , everyone would say hey , let's go out , let's come to a party , and I was like I can't , I can't , I can't . It was . You're not even efficient , you're just kind of running around because you're learning how to do so many different things . There'll be a time , after you've owned it for a while and you have a really good team in place , where you'll learn about efficiencies and you'll learn how to be effective .

And I'm certainly projecting , but my experience is it takes some time . Absolutely Well , josh . I really appreciate you for taking the time to come on the podcast and thank you for joining me on Retail Intel . Be sure to check out Mizunte in person and on Instagram at Mizunte Cincinnati .

Okay , thanks , buddy , good talking to you . Whether you're an aspiring real estate mogul , a seasoned pro or simply curious about the places where we shop , dine , play and work , this podcast is your all-access pass to the world of commercial real estate . Connect with me on LinkedIn and , if you're interested in being a part of the Retail Intel podcast , send a message to nationalaccounts at phillipsedisoncom . If you want to hear more about new and expanding brands like Mizunte , keep tuning in to Retail Intel and please subscribe , follow , like and repost .

Talk to you next time .