Enhancing Development and Employee Engagement within Your Team, with Stephanie Van Meter

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Stephanie Van Meter: Makes $100 cash back per month.

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John: Stephanie Van Meter, welcome to the conversation today.

Stephanie Van Meter: Hey, John, it's great to be here.

John: It is great to be with you. You're joining us from Atlanta, Georgia. I'm south of Salt Lake City in Utah. And today we're going to be talking about enhancing development and employee engagement within your team. And you bring a really cool, interesting background to this topic. So I think it's going to be great to explore this with you and to get your. Your insights, your take on it. As we get started, I wanted to share Stephanie's bio with everybody. As Chief Operating Officer at Ammunition.

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John: Stephanie is a distinguished leader known for fostering teamwork, strengthening communication, and driving organizational growth. Joining ammunition in 2022, she advanced from chief of UH staff to chief operating officer in 2024, a testament to her leadership and impact across the agency. Her strategic guidance has been instrumental in Ammunition's recognition by Adweek's Growing Agencies Inc. 5000, the Financial Times, and the Atlanta Business Chronicle. Previously, as Director of operations, process and Development for Berries, an international boutique fitness brand, she launched the company's first learning management system and optimized operational best practices. Stephanie's passion for people development, operational excellence and clear communication continues to drive her success in the success of the organization's that she leads. Uh, so you just have such a really cool operations background. Anything you would like to add by way of your own m personal background or context before we dive on it?

Stephanie Van Meter: Well, thank you very much. That was very kind. Um, it's always interesting to hear yourself described in a way. Um, you're like, okay, yeah, I guess I have done some things right. Ah, yeah. I think I'm someone who's just really passionate about people and about their ability to succeed, whether personally, professionally. Um, obviously the emphasis Here in my role is professionally, um, and I think through being a strategic, thoughtful operator, I've been able to give people a really strong structured foundation so that they can do their best work, that they can feel free and clear to kind of move forward with creativity. So that's how I see myself, how I see my role. The puzzle or the piece of the bigger puzzle in these organizations.

John: Yeah. Well, I really like that. And, you know, has a lot of different names, uh, and is framed differently in different types of organizations. And so, you know, the traditional, um, personnel management, uh, human resource management, People and culture is a common terminology used in organizations for that department nowadays. Uh, People Operations is also, uh, a common name. And I think regardless of what the official name is of the organization, it is a bit telling about kind of the. The philosophy, you know, the leadership philosophy and organizational philosophy around the HR function, depending on what that name is. But. But ultimately, regardless of the name, when you're dealing with people, um, there's all sorts of complexities around that. Right? And, and there's policies, practices, um, that are formalized, solidified, and then there's kind of the. The cultural norms and values that are communicated, uh, sometimes consistently or inconsistently with the policies and practices of the organization. Uh, and so this people operations piece is really essential. And ultimately what we all want, I think, is we want to form a great team. We want great people in our organization. Uh, people who feel valued, people who feel like they have an opportunity to contribute, an opportunity to grow within the organization. Um, and when we accomplish that, then really cool synergies start to happen. Really cool stuff gets produced. We have lots of cool creativity and innovation, and we just. We just bring greater value to the market, um, because we have people who are invested in what they're doing. Um, but that doesn't happen, like, just by chance, you know, that it doesn't just happen magically. Like, it really happens with intentionality. And, uh, that's where those policies, practices, procedures come in. The structured piece, uh, and then the ongoing communication piece around those values and the norms and things like that. So hopefully they mesh together really well and they're not battling each other, you know, or having friction, uh, between them. Um, as we dig in and start to talk about your experience with enhancing employee development programs and employee engagement, maybe, uh, you could start by kind of not like, not like dictionary, uh, definitions. But like, how do you approach that? Like, what's your philosophical kind of perspective and approach and definition of. Of employee development, employee engagement?

Stephanie Van Meter: Sure. So I think first and foremost, for Me, I define people management, people development, training, learning, success and roles. Um, really is this kind of blend of clarity and kindness. I think people clarity and kindness I believe drives performance, which is what we want at the end of the day. And that's candidly what people want of themselves as well. Right? If you employ hardworking, thoughtful, intelligent people, which I think is the, is candidly what as leaders we hope for, certainly what we want right in our team. Um, we've got to manage them and manage ourselves from a place of clarity and kindness. And I think if those two pieces are present in a system, in a communication style, in um, engagement programs, then I think it organically leads to people feeling good in their role, which means typically that they execute well in their role. And so my philosophy, I think in thinking about how to manage people, how to get the most out of them, how to create synergy between teams. Um, we're a really collaborative organization, right? We're a full service advertising agency where everyone really depends on one another to get things done, to deliver results for clients to make measurable impact. Everyone needs each other. And so I think fundamentally everyone wants to know what's expected of them. Everyone wants to know how, what they're doing, ladders up to the bigger picture of the organization, the why behind it all. Um, and they want to feel like their leaders are being kind about it. Um, so we, right now I'm really excited we're working on a proprietary AI driven because we're a tech forward organization manager training platform. Um, we realize that we really want to invest in our leaders making sure they're set up for success, uh, making sure they feel like they have the resources that they need to be effective. Um, and so we're combining, you know, kind of industry best practices research, um, you know, great kind of uh, tried and true frameworks, um, around feedback and communication and um, engaging your team and you know, all of the things we know are important and we're weaving that in with our own values, our own unique context and we're leveraging AI to create unique content that's kind of forward thinking, really relevant, really, um, really modern for folks. Um, and we're super excited about it because we just feel again that when everyone is operating kind of within the same framework in the same system and they feel like they have a ton of resources to support them in the day to day, then everyone wins.

John: Yeah, everyone wants to feel invested in um, because that's part of their value. Right, but, but also supported. Like if we have KPIs, you know, we. Various stretch goals and such, and people are just like, there's just no way, like, how am I supposed to do that? Like, um, that support has to be there, otherwise people don't perform. And in fact, they get demotivated and overwhelmed and, you know, they're not going to stick around. They're going to start looking for the next thing. Um, and so the employee development piece really does go hand in hand with employee engagement. Now, there's lots of drivers of employee engagement. There's lots of research on this. There's lots of various things. Relationships within the workplace, um, you know, are a big deal. For example, um, all.

Narrator: Ah.

John: So there's a lot of things that matter to keep someone engaged and really activated in their work. But one of those key elements that hits several of the engagement buckets is just continual development opportunities for growth. Um, because you feel valued, you feel invested in. You feel like you have an opportunity not just to perform well today and today's job, but in preparation for your next career move, whether it's with the organization or with a different organization. Um, and. And then you just get to do more cool stuff. Like, people don't. People don't like doing the mundane, generally speaking. Um, uh, people like to try new things. Um, they like to learn. You know, change is hard and people don't always like sweeping change. But people do like growth, um, especially incremental growth. Right. Um, and when they're not, like when they don't have some edict or mandate from the higher up saying, okay, we're gonna switch out this system and now you have to get, you know, up to speed on it. That's different. Right? That's a different kind of resistance that you might face from a change management perspective than, than just like having a culture where everyone is expected and supported and experimentation and like, just getting a little like that 1% better every day, like, choose something, get a little bit better. You're gonna be happier in the work that you do. You're gonna produce better work, you're gonna collaborate better with other people because you're gonna have better work. Like, all of that just. It just really. So I can't understate, you know, the importance of what you're saying. Um, in re. Emphasizing that, like, it's, it's really, really essential. And we're in this kind of weird inflection, uh, point right now with the technologies available. Um, you know, you met m. You said, I can't remember the exact, um, wording, but to the something. To the extent of, you Know like we don't want outdated stuff. We want new fresh content. We want, we want things that are really relevant to today. And yeah, everyone wants that every. Let me just throw out an example. Everyone has sat through, you know, those corporate compliance trainings or like the sexual harassment training.

Stephanie Van Meter: Totally.

John: All of which are important by the way. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of like being aware of those things, but oftentimes the trainings aren't very good. Um, oftentimes they're super repetitive. A lot of times the examples they use are like literally 20 years old or there will be like this old video um, of a scenario or something like that. And yeah, it just, it just grab you when you just feel like this is so stale. So people want more current stuff but it, but it's costly. It's hard in the traditional way of developing these materials to keep them up to date. But with AI driven enhancements, uh, there's so much you can do for pretty cheap, um, that will really up your game in the employee development space around personalized learning and growth around um, just new, new fresh content, uh, and, and just making sure that things don't get stale.

Stephanie Van Meter: I couldn't agree more. Um, in fact it was really kind of an unlock for me I would say in thinking about how we invest in our people. Right. Um, I think you made a really good point that historically investing in learning, whether it's through LinkedIn learning or you know, similar organizations that provide materials and frameworks and 1 sheeters, which are all amazing by the way, um, to do that at scale is really costly. Um and so what I love about, what I love about AI is not that it's replacing human, human um, intuition or um, you know, traditions and things that tradition is the wrong word. Um, frameworks that we just know work. Right. We know basic kind of things about human psychology and how people operate and how they think and feel and want. I um, love that you can combine all of those principles and foundational knowledge with the uni of your context. Right. We're a, we're a modern tech forward big city agency working on very cool brands and doing, you know, we're pushing the envelope on things and so being able to deliver this messaging that we just know fundamentally works in a way that really resonates with people and is sticky. Um, I just feel like is an, it's um, it's an unlock and really just an incredible resource that didn't really exist this before where you might spend hours and months authoring content to only then have to change it. Right. When something changes in the workplace or a new law comes out or there's a new um, you know, a new kind of way of doing something. And that's not to say that there's not beauty and purity in like self authored tech free content. I just think for a scaling, growing organization who wants to create content um, with a, in a really cost effective way, it's just, it's just really cool to be able to leverage um, technology in doing it. Um, and I think it's just elevating the existing frameworks we have in place. So it's a fun puzzle.

John: Yeah. And there's certainly, I mean there's a lot of worry out there around displacement. Right. Of um, in fairness, you know, for people who have that concern. I mean I think there's a bit of a short sighted way that many organizations and many leaders are approaching AI use and they are approaching it kind of as this displacement. Like let's lower labor costs, we're going to cut positions. You know, we don't need as many people to do what we're doing. But there's a different way to view this and that's as an accelerator, as using uh, AI and the existing technologies with your existing people who get upskilled and trained on how to use them effectively and appropriately. Like think about the growth in your capacity as an organization uh, and your ability now to like reach new heights. And it's an accelerator towards advancement and growth. Growth. And um, so it doesn't need to be a scary thing. It doesn't need to be a displacement conversation. It can be, it can be complementing your workforce and accelerating the types of things that you're trying to accomplish. I like that framing better. Um, realistically it's hard though because you know the pressures that CEOs are under to cut costs and whatever. Like it is attention and that's attention like from a societal level and organizational levels, you know, we'll have to wrestle with, with. But, but I, I do just want to point out, to reiterate kind of your point is that uh, it's, it's not an either or like, and it doesn't have, that doesn't have to be the outcome. Even though I know that's the fear that a lot of people have.

Stephanie Van Meter: We're having a lot of conversations around that we're being again clear but kind. Right. It all comes back to that kind of combination. Um, we're not looking to replace roles with AI. We are simply looking to amplify and elevate and we've unlocked a whole host of tools that we've never had at our fingertips. But there's always a human in the driver's seat. And that's, that's our fundamental North Star belief. There's a human in the driver's seat. There's human creativity, human intuition, human contextual knowledge. Right. There's so much beauty in being human, but you just cannot replicate in machine learning. But what you, what you get when you combine the two is really, really powerful. Um, and I think it's just being aware and, and being mindful of how the two come together. And, and that's kind of how we look at any tech is we look for best practices. We look for frameworks and resources that make our use of the tool unified so that we're all using the tool in a safe, you know, relevant, reasonable way where we're mitigating risk, but then really kind of giving people the freedom to use it, to make, to amplify their work, to, you know, give them new capabilities they may not have had before. So we're, we're really leaning into this idea of tech being an amplifier and an accelerator for us and never something that we're thinking of as a replacement.

John: Yeah, yeah, I think that's great. Um, and maybe this goes into some of what we've already been talking about. Um, but, you know, in your chief operating officer role, maybe you could share some examples or, you know, experience around how you've helped to influence Ammunition's organizational structure. Um, you know, how you've helped to support the rapid growth of the company through its people.

Stephanie Van Meter: Sure. Um, I think we have, you know, the key pillars for us are an agile tech stack. And we've got, we've, we've created a communication framework via, uh, monthly one on ones, town halls, skip levels, check ins, um, all agency emails, you know, different channels on Slack. Like, we kind of come at communication from all different angles, knowing that everyone receives and hears information differently. Um, we've got very clearly defined growth paths for people. So we've got salary bands established for every person in the organization, in addition to, um, the salary band for the role just above it, so that they know, hey, if I want to stay here, if I want to grow, this is what I could grow into, and these are the expectations of that role, and this is how much it could possibly earn in that role, because we know that's important to everyone. Um, and so I think we look at our organizational structure as one that's for today and the next Few months. But also something that whatever we're doing structurally is agile enough to evolve. Um, and so I think it's this balance of uh, we like what we're doing now but also we're not afraid to say this isn't working for us anymore. Um, whether it's reorganizing our project management team so that project managers report into our account team, um, and have a more kind of you know, close relationship communication structure uh, so we can serve that client better. Um, we're communicating about that clearly. Um, we're, you know we hired an AI innovation lead, um, to ensure that we are, we are leading on that in that way, um, safely and thoughtfully and um, intentionally so that it's, you know, we're setting ourselves up for success and growth. Growth. Um, I think I, yeah, I think our growth, our, our focus when it comes to organizational design is, is very intentional. Um, and we're very self aware. So we're saying yes to as many new tools and as many new processes as we are saying no. So it's like kind of a balance of understanding what serves us and maybe what served us three months ago isn't what's going to serve us as we jump into the next chapter. So I'd say we're, I'd say agility is kind of a key.

John: Agility, Yeah.

Stephanie Van Meter: A key premise for us when we think about organizational structure and design.

John: Yeah. And, and I think that's, it's really, really necessary in the hyper, kind of competitive, hyper growth, um, complexity kind of environment that we're in. You know and things are just shifting. The landscape around us is shifting so quickly. Right. And so it's really great to have clear plans in place and long term plans and goals and, and a, and a really clear structure. All of that's really great. But you have to be agile enough to be able to adjust and pivot um, as the need, need arises and it will arise. Like I, I, we just don't know what, we don't know, we don't know what the next thing is going to be. Um, but, but we, we have to be able to respond um, in a fast way and that can be hard on people. You know, people don't like change and structural change is one of those where now you're reporting to, you know, you have a different reporting line now you have different like the nature of your job kind of shifts when those things happen.

Stephanie Van Meter: Right.

John: And, and people don't always love that. And there can, and there can be change fatigue. Um, it's one Reason why, I think in the change management world, you know, we talk a lot less now days about, you know, a change initiative and we talk about a change mindset and readiness for change and just having, like, having a learning organization culture where everyone just knows, you know, we, we're in this together to adapt as we go.

Stephanie Van Meter: And I love that.

John: That means things today may look different than they did yesterday or last week or last month, month, and they may look different again six months from now. And you know, we're gonna not do things willy nilly, like we're gonna do things with intentionality. Um, but you know, it does mean that, you know, we're trying our best to be responsive and that adjustments will need to be made. And, and I think not everyone's gonna love that answer. Not everyone's going to love being in that environment and, and you know, maybe there's a different path for them, but for a lot of us, I think as long as that clarity is there, as you've said many times, times, as long as the, the clarity and kindness and treating people with dignity and respect throughout that process happens and you have that culture of support and learning, um, then you can navigate it, even if it's challenging. Um, you know, I think most people are willing to, to roll up their sleeves and do the work as long as there's clarity around what they're doing and why.

Stephanie Van Meter: I couldn't agree more.

John: Yeah. Well, this has just been such a great conversation, Stephanie. I know we've really only scratched the surface here. Uh, there's a whole lot more that we could say about, um, about people development, employee engagement around the operations piece and how that plugs into this, your time, uh, there at Ammunition. Um, but I do need to let you go here in a minute before we wrap up. I just wanted to give you a chance to share with the audience how they can connect with you, find out more about your work and then give us the final word for today.

Stephanie Van Meter: Yeah, well, thank you so much, Sean. I agree. I feel like we could keep talking and talking about these topics. Topics. Um, clearly I'm passionate about them. Passionate about people, passionate about, you know, them feeling successful in their roles and making sure that I'm an accelerator to that. Um, we have a beautiful website if you are, uh, interested in checking out some great work. Uh, it's Ammunition Agency. You can also check us out on LinkedIn. Um, we post regularly about, you know, cool stuff going on in the industry. We've also got a really fun newsletter that we send out monthly, um, with just some. It's a, it's a fun way to stay kind of on top of trends, um, in the advertising and marketing space. Um, some kind of fun facts, a little bit about what we're up to. But mostly it's a kind of a trend spotting newsletter. So that's fun. Um, we've got, we've got a fun, kind of playful tone on our Instagram at Ammunition team where we highlight, you know, just what it's like to work here. We celebrate people's anniversaries and um, just it's really celebratory, I would say our Instagram is um, and then of course, course you're welcome to connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram as well. I love conversation, uh, about all of this stuff and really just getting to know people and who they are. Um, and I think you know the takeaway and if I had to kind of sum it all up like we, our aim is to bridge creativity and clarity so that we can help make change happen and make an impact. Ah, for the brands that we serve.

John: I love it. Stephanie, thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure. I encourage the audience to reach out, get connected, find out more about what Stephanie and her team can do for you. And as always, I hope everyone can stay healthy and safe, that you can find meaning and purpose at work each and every day. And I hope you all have a great week. Thanks for joining us for this episode of the podcast. We hope you stay healthy and safe and please join us again soon.

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