Hot take: creating “for Instagram” vs “for the client.”

Speaker A: Welcome back to the Passion With Purpose podcast. I'm your host, Nathan Chansky. On, uh, today's episode, we are unpacking the controversial topic of should you create as a photographer for the sole purpose of your client and serving them alone in mind, or should you create for the purpose of posting Instagram and your business growth and marketing? So we've been having chats in my business blueprint coaching community about this. I've seen so many posts lately on this topic in social media. Let, um, me give an example of this. So an example of this would me be seeing a post that says something along the lines of taking photos for your Instagram is wrong as a photographer. Like, this isn't about you, this isn't about your Instagram, this isn't about your marketing. This is about the client and the client alone. That should be your focus. Da da da da da. Or another example I've seen is getting behind the scenes content at weddings for your marketing is just inappropriate. Or maybe it's self seeking or it's just plain icky for XYZ reasons and you should instead spend all your time focusing on the client and their photos. That's why you're here right now. For the record, I think these are great topics and I think some people address them well. I think some people address them less than well. Um, but I want to address these topics because by and large I do believe that instead of being nuanced, they're often shared and discussed very emotionally in the photography industry and with this mentality of one way is right and the other way is wrong, with very little balance in between. So today I want to discuss what is the balance of these discussions and you'll kind of find my opinion weaved through as we go. So let's open up these topics. Let me go back to our examples. So the first example I gave is someone basically claiming that if you're a photographer and you take photos and Instagram is in mind, you're in the wrong and you should instead focusing on getting photos for the client. Okay, okay, okay, let's unpack that a second. So the premise here that I see stated a lot is very either or mentality. And it's again this idea that to have an eye for how a shot will perform or look on Instagram means you fundamentally are not focused as a photographer on your client. Right? So it's either you're focused on your client or you're focused on Instagram, or you're focused on your client, or you're just a marketing person that wants money, or you're focused on your client and you're the artist, or you're just one of those business owners who's, you know, greedy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Right? And this is a fundamentally very flawed and limited mentality. My question thrown back would be, why can't it not get be both? Why can we not do both? Well, so let me give you an example of this. Let's say you, uh, as a photographer, are taking a photo of a couple during, let's say, their couple shots during a wedding or something like that, and you see a photo in your head, you see the scene, and you see some sort of beautiful composition, and your mind immediately goes to, oh my gosh, my clients will absolutely love this shot. And then next your mind goes to, and I can't wait to share this on Instagram too. I want more clients like this couple and this shoot. So this will be great. Now tell me, is this thought somehow made less virtuous or honorable than simply thinking the client will love this shot, period? But does the second part of I can't wait to share this on Instagram too make you any less of a photographer for that client? If yes to either why or how? See, I don't see any reason why your motive is made less virtuous somehow by adding on the second part of I can't wait to share this on my Instagram or my website. In fact, if you think about it, maybe the only reason that client found you and gets to benefit from working with an artist like you is because you actually chose to show up on Instagram where you shared photos on Instagram that worked well for Instagram. And that client that you're working with right now, they found you on Instagram through those photos. So if you would have said to yourself way back when, no, no, no. These photos are just for the client, not for Instagram. And you never shared to Instagram or optimized your marketing. This current client would never have gotten the chance to work with you. But instead, no, you didn't do that. You said, this shot. Clients will love this and so will Instagram. In fact, let me even get a better shot for my clients because in the back of my mind, this client isn't my only audience. This is gonna go in my portfolio, my public portfolio. So maybe even it raised your own standards because you knew this is going to be seen by more people. Let me ask you this. Who does that elevate the art for? Who benefits from that the most? The client does. So this whole Mentality that doing it for the client and doing it for the marketing have to somehow be in opposition to one another is just such a small mindset. Every logical explanation points to the fact that they can absolutely work in tandem with each other. And not only work together, but the two approaches can sharpen one another. You focus on the client, you will naturally sharpen your marketing because it gets passed around that you give people a great service. You focus on marketing, you'll naturally sharpen your photography skills for the client because you raise the stakes. It doesn't have to be this either or, it is both. And now small detail. I want to touch on every booking part of your payment. And I have to touch on this because I think a lot of people don't understand this and don't realize this. But it is so important to understand as a business owner, every time you book a client, part of your payment is non monetary, meaning not based on money. So whenever you are hired for photography, money is not the only payment. You are also paid in your ability to take that experience with that client and turn it into marketing. This is not a bad thing. Marketing is not the villain. You leveraging a business service you provide for future gain for your business is not wrong. Anyone trying to make you believe that that is somehow bad or immoral, or you using your client in a dishonest way completely misunderstands how the baseline of business works. And by the way, that is completely hypocritical of the way that they run their own business too. I will prove this. Because what if I said to you, hey, every single client you book from here and out, every single client, you can't use their photos anywhere. On your Instagram, on your website, you can't use their photos, uh, anywhere, actually, even beyond your Instagram, beyond your website. You can't even print them and show them to people. You can't collect reviews from those clients. Your, your client is actually sworn to secrecy that they will, that they've ever worked with you. They cannot tell anybody, they cannot tag you in images. Nothing, no trace of ever doing business with your business can ever be recognized. The transaction between you and this client is simply they pay you money, you deliver the service and photographs, Period. Nothing more. Closed loop. You're probably laughing at me for how ridiculous that sounds, aren't you? But notice all I did, all I did was I took away the marketing, right? That evil, villainous word, marketing. I just took it away. Said, you can't use your client for marketing. No marketing of any kind. Cause all of that, that was marketing. Now let me ask you this. Would you charge differently for that kind of a booking? Heck yeah. You would? Heck yeah, you should. Because that just made your business 10 times harder to run, maybe 100 times harder to run if you cannot leverage any photos, any reviews, any word of mouth, any, any experiences from a former client experience to book more clients in the future. So it would follow then that every client is not only paying you in money, they are also paying you in permission to leverage their experience with you for your future business growth. See how that works? See, anytime somebody says, anytime I hear somebody say marketing is the bad guy, I say, okay, let's take all of it out then. All of it out there, let's go there. Because if you take all of the marketing out, what are you left with? You're left with an impossible business model that will fail every single time that doesn't get to serve, doesn't get to bless any clients because nobody knows about is unshareable. It is untransferable to anyone else. And I'm just, I'm just telling you guys, to those who are, to those who trust me and who listen to me and show up to my podcast every week, I love you guys. And I'm telling you, listening to this because you're my people, like you're my folks, okay? I'm telling you right now, this type of mentality is the starving artist mentality in the industry that you have have to watch out for these mentalities. While I, uh, get it guys, they sound so noble, so pure of like do it only for the client, only for the client, blah blah, blah, blah blah. Here's the deal though. This either or mentality and this, you should only do this for the client or else you are a less than photographer, or you're not humble enough, or you're self seeking, or you're selfish, or you're greedy. All these mentalities do is they keep you, you pour and they block you from ever getting to serve anybody with the God given talents and abilities that you have been gifted and blessed with. What a shame, what an absolute shame it would be to close your business because some people. Do you know that some people truly have, have to close up their business because they adopted some of these mentalities and they couldn't get clients anymore. Uh, what a shame it would be to close your business, the business that could have actually helped and served people with your skills all because someone told you that marketing was evil. Don't listen to it for a second. I'm telling you right now, do not listen to it for a second. Here is the nuance. Here is the balance of all this that I want to give to you. Do I think there are some photographers who focus too heavily on getting the shot for Instagram? Absolutely, absolutely. But to be perfectly honest with you, I truly don't think it is this monumental issue. I don't think it's that big of an issue. I've had people where I have been the client, and I know they're leveraging me for future gain in their business. I know they are. I don't feel used at all. In fact, oftentimes I feel honored. I'm like, let me help you. You have an amazing service. You have served me very well as the client. I would love to spread the word about you. I'd love for you to take me, even as a case study and just shotgun it to the world so that more people get to work with someone like you. Because good professionals should be scattered throughout the market. It's the bad ones that you don't want scattered throughout the market. But the good ones, I'm like, please post all over the place. Share my review anywhere you want. Get me on a podcast. I don't know, share my story, whatever have you. Right? Uh, I'll say this. Even in my own business, clients, normally you guys, like, I don't know about you, but my clients have loved when their photos look good on Instagram. They like that, too. That's like, you guys. That's a win for them. I don't know where we thought that, like, clients are somehow going to hate if their photos look good on Instagram. Like, where did that mentality come from? Or clients love when you share their photos on Instagram. It's like the same thing. Like when you share their photos on your feedback. Clients love that. I've actually had people who are like, hey, why didn't you share my photos? And I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry. I forgot. I don't know right now, again, do I think it's a good heart check of. Okay, hold on. Who are we really doing this for? Are we just doing this for personal gain? Are we actually serving the client? Absolutely. Absolutely. It should be both. And I do think, primarily you should be thinking, how can I serve this client? But here's my other thing. Like I said, those two often can work in tandem. If you're thinking, I want to serve this client so well so that I can get better clients in the future, like this client who benefits your Current client benefits from that mindset. It keeps you accountable. If every client you had was your last client, you probably, I'm going to be so real with you, it wouldn't be good for you because you'd have no accountability of like, hey, you, you better keep showing up 10 out of 10 stars or you're not going to get future clients. Right. It keeps accountability in the market. So if marketing, if your Instagram feed, if your website crosses your mind when you are taking a photo, I do not believe it is a sign that you somehow lack some sort of morality that you would have had if you hadn't thought of that. That is, uh, absurd. That is absurd. Okay, so next. Next thing I want to talk about behind the scenes content. I've seen this one kind of get some, some movement in the airwaves lately. So behind the scenes content on wedding day. And this is, this is maybe, you know, you whipping out your phone, um, taking some photos or videos on your iPhone, let's say, for reels for your stories, um, or using even meta glasses. I've never really used meta glasses, but whatever. Have you, um, for your marketing purposes, right? Or even just to send to clients afterwards, or using it for both. And this is. I've seen this delivered in kind of a similar mentality that we've discussed. Uh, this mentality of either or you can't do behind the scenes shots on your iPhone and also be an incredible photographer for your clients. Uh, oh, man. Guys, I think this is wrong. I think if this is not addressed in a nuanced, balanced way, then it's delivered wrong. Um, and I don't think, like, this whole mentality of you're serving the client less if you get behind the scenes stuff or it's icky if you do this. Come on. Really, really now, can you absolutely create behind the scenes content in a reckless, insensitive way that actually costs the client photos that you promised them or that you should have gotten? Right? You should have been focused on those main photos or, or even doing something like whipping out your phone in a way where you kind of look unprofessional. Whipping out your phone at that point in the day. Like, like if you're in the middle of an aisle during a ceremony and everyone's watching you don't whip out your phone. That's very foolish. Very foolish. No. Or. You know what I'm saying. There's certain situations where it's an emphatic yes, you should not be doing that. And I've seen that done. I've even seen sometimes like some content, um, posted online. And I've like, fully cringed because I'm like, oh, dear. Because you can just tell like, the photographer overstepped to get that shot. Or, uh, what they're sharing is like over sharing from the details of the client. Or it was like sharing a personal moment where they should have been taking the photos. Or like they were way too focused on the content rather than the photos. And granted, yes, here's where I think you can overstep. I think when the photos aren't done, when there is a really personal moment happening, don't whip out your phone. Keep it, keep it inside. Uh, this is obviously different if you're actually a content creator, but I'm going through the list if you're like actually a photographer, professional photographer, professional videographer. Um, another, another thought, like again, in the middle of the aisle during a ceremony when everybody's watching and it just looks bad to have your phone out, even if, even if, like, you think you're doing the right thing, like, if it looks bad, don't, don't do it. Okay. Um, when you just do this too frequently, sometimes you can just do it too frequently. Like, hey, couple times during the wedding day. So fine. In specific tasteful moments. Don't be doing this all the time. Right? All I'll say on this is read the room. Like, learn if you don't know how to read the room. Learn how to read the room in terms of like, when you should or shouldn't be whipping out your phone or like, I don't know, putting on your meta glasses or something like that. That's part of the room, part, uh, of part of the job that you need to be able to read the room. And here is, here's what I would recommend, okay. For the whole behind the scenes topic, if you're gonna do it, I would say try to make it moments where no one's really around or if someone is around, it's like the main couple who, they know you well, you have a really good working relationship with them at this time. And um, or it's like in a dead space, like maybe right after you got the details and you're waiting for like people to get ready for the ceremony, literally nothing's happening. Or um, you're just, you're taking ceremony space shots or something like that. Or yeah, like again, when the work is done or when you are not seen and you're in like a dark corner and um, when it costs the photos nothing. Or sometimes I would even say let's say you're in front of the couple or you're in front of the bridal party or something of that nature. And you take a minute and you're like, all right, guys, we're all done. Um, do you mind if I grab a couple shots just on my iPhone for Instagram or something like that? I guarantee you, your couple or the bridal party, they're gonna be like, yeah, do it. That'd be so fun. Blah, blah, blah. And they'll get really into it. Like, that's a fun thing. There's nothing wrong with that. But again, be tactful, be winsome, be careful, don't lead with that. You know what I'm saying? Like, get the photos done first. That's why you're there. Um, and this all leads me to. I think a good tip would be maybe even give your couple a heads up, as this is becoming a bigger topic of discussion. Maybe give your couple a heads up or whatever client you have, give them a heads up and maybe show them the types of content you've created through your iPhone, um, for like a typical wedding day or typical shoot, and say, hey, are you guys, like, cool if I get some of this at your day? Um, you know, I'll send you guys everything you get. But some of these are really special. Both for, um, Instagram. You can post them to your Instagram. They're just fun to have in, in general. Um, they'll probably love you for it, truly. And it'll be. When you deliver it to them, they'll probably like a little surprise bonus. You got little content for what they can post on their Instagram too. Maybe even you can see if you can add this into your contract, that this is something you do. But do I think you should never do it? Do I think it's like, icky? Do you think you should just focus on the photos and. Who cares about the marketing? No. No. Hard, no. Hard, no. Okay. I think it is a very smart thing to take behind the scenes footage of you doing your job. I do. I think that is a very smart, strategic way to run your business. Many businesses do it nowadays. I don't think the average client is offended. As long as you are tactful, winsome, and you read the room and you disclose why and how you're doing it before you actually do it. And here's the deal, you guys, this is maybe a hot take, but some of the people in the photography industry that preach just focus on the work and the client and. And they forget the marketing. And, and they're just like, just keep the little mystery about yourself. And I'll just say this. Check who the person is who's telling you that. If they've got five times the years of experience as you, if they've got 10 times the industry reputation as you, if they've got 10 times the followers as you, I am sorry, but their marketing at their stage of business is fundamentally different than yours. If you are still building the foundational reputation and marketing of your business. Okay, the more I coach the everyday in the trenches photographers, the more strongly I realize that you need marketing to grow your photography business. You need exposure, you need real human eyeballs on your work. You need the strategy, you need the Instagram content. Being this mysterious means being unclear. It means often being unknown. And I will tell you right now, being unclear and unknown when you are building your business will not grow your business. It will suffocate your business. And by the way, here's a little dirty secret. Those people that have all that industry reputation and already built, I bet you anything that they did not start off trying to be mysterious as their main goal. They weren't too good for the marketing and the scrappiness of all of that back when they first started. I can guarantee you it, they can be now, now, now they can be 15, 20 years in. But I'm telling you, they built to that level. It's. It's like Taylor Swift can drop a song tomorrow with zero marketing and it would go number one immediately. But Taylor Swift, back when she first started, however many years ago, not a chance. You know what Taylor Swift was doing then? She was booking small shows left and right. She was touring with bigger names than herself as just an opening act. She was hopping on radio shows all over the country. I heard one time that she and her mom would package up her album and hand mail it to these radio shows like her and her mom, okay, someone's 15 years in strategy is not your marketing strategy, period. So all this to say, kind of got a little heated there. I get it. I just, I gotta get that off my chest, okay? I work with way too many photographers, like in the trenches of their business. And I just, I get so like heartbroken for them when they see these people that are like at the top of the industry telling them they need to be more mysterious and just like shut up on Instagram. And I'm just like, oh my gosh, I can't. So all this to say, you guys, back to the behind the scenes content topic. Behind the scenes, I Do believe is still one of the most strong tools you have to have a client watch you in real time posing a couple or speaking to the family you're working with or working a wedding, et cetera. Truly, this is a priceless form of marketing. And mainly it's connection with your future clients and your current clients. Again, my clients have always loved when I whip out my phone after the work is done and I tell them, hey, I want to get some content for Instagram. What do you guys think? They love that. They feel so honored. Like, they love it when I send it to them later too. It's like this full circle moment for them when, like, that's how they found me, that's how they came to know me on Instagram or something. And, uh, then now they get to be the ones in the content. Do it in a tactful, winsome way or just straight up ask, right? But there, you know, there's absolutely some dead spaces during, let's say most weddings or most shoots. Not all, of course, if you have a. There's some days, some m. Wedding days where I'm like, I never single time whip on my phone for content. That's okay. That's okay. But some of them, there are. I saw a comment once that was like, all the time you have that you are being hired as a photographer for their day. All of that time must be used to photograph the day. That is what you were hired for. I was like, okay, in a way, I can see what you're saying there. But this idea that you, uh, have to have your finger on the shutter button for every millisecond of a wedding day, I'm sorry, that is ridiculous. That is ridiculous. And I don't know a single sane photographer who actually holds themself to that standard. All this to say, just because it can be done wrong does not mean it cannot be done right. My challenge for you is find a way to do it right. To do it well, to do it tactfully, to do it winsomely, sensitively, sparingly. When the time is right again, read the room. Read the room. You guys get good at reading the room. So my final thoughts on this episode. Uh, marketing is not the villain, folks. Marketing is your friend. Marketing is your best friend. One of your best friends in business. And therefore, it is your client's friend as well. Right? Marketing and good service do not have to be pitted against each other. You marketing your business, you serving the client are not in conflict. Anyone that says it has to be is just missing it they can not only coexist, but they complement one another when it is done well. And I'm making this episode because I. Guys, I do not want you to be swept up in this emotional, impractical wave of the industry or these waves that come and go in the industry, that it's like they care only what sounds like a good thing at face value, but in the end, it just keeps talented, skillful, gifted artists and photographers like yourself broke and with an empty inbox. And that pisses me off, to be perfectly honest with you. And in this space. We're not doing that here. Not around my neck of the woods. I want you, if you're listening to me, I want you strong, I want you abundant. I want you financially free and I want you full of clients that you can serve with your God given abilities. Okay? That's it. So, hey, thanks for listening. If you found this helpful, I'd love it if you could share it with someone. I'd love to spread this word in the industry to just balance things out. Um, or share this on your stories. Uh, it's kind of a hot take, but I hope this lands in the way that I mean it to, which is in the best way. Um, so thanks for being here. Subscribe so you don't miss future episodes if you connected with this one. And I will see you guys next time. Take care.