Booked, but burned out? This one's for you. (Live Coaching Call with Dana Mann)

Nate Chansky: Welcome back to the Passion With Purpose podcast. I'm your host, Nate Chansky. On today's episode, we got an amazing live coaching call with a girl named Dana who is struggling because she and her business feels like she's booking too much work and not getting compensated enough for it. And so then she's feeling burnt out and she feels like the structure in her business just needs some work. So if you've ever felt burnt out, you've ever felt like you can't raise your prices and you're doing too much for too little, this is going to be the perfect episode for you to listen to. So let's hop over and talk with Dana. Dana, how's it going?

Dana: Hey. Good. How are you?

Nate Chansky: I'm so good. Hey, let's get started. You tell everybody. Where are you from and what kind of work do you do and for how long have you been doing it?

Dana: Yeah, I'm based in Knoxville, Tennessee. I just moved here from West Tennessee, so I've been kind of all over the state of Tennessee. I just say, like, I'm a Tennessee photographer.

Nate Chansky: Love it.

Dana: I primarily do weddings and engagements, and then I've been doing it for three years. It has been three years since March 2023, so.

Nate Chansky: So cool. Congratulations. You just hit your three three year anniversary.

Dana: Yeah, my photo versary, I like to call it.

Nate Chansky: I love it. Okay, Dana, you tell me, how can I help you out today?

Dana: Yeah, I, uh, mostly just want to balance booking more or figuring out like, what's my capacity for booking. And I'm also a faith based business owner, so how to balance God's authority in that and not get burned out. I feel like for the past three years of doing this thing, I've been in this cycle of doing like 25 to 30 weddings a year. And now I do video too, so that adds like about 10 more weddings on my calendar. Um, and I just, I book that much because I'm like, oh, that's my capacity. That's what I end up booking. Um, and that's what is good for, like, income wise. Um, but then every year I feel like I'm just a little bit overextended. I'm a little bit burnt out at the end of it all. And then, um, I want to, like, submit to God's authority in everything I do and like, give it all to him. I know all my inquiries come from him and it's like not my own strength, but when I feel like I book that many weddings, I feel like I'm relying on my own strength. I keep like, creating from exhaustion, which doesn't feel like creating at all, you know? Mhm.

Nate Chansky: Absolutely. No, I totally understand that. So I want to get down to the root of. When you say the difference between. Or the relationship between submitting to God's authority and feeling. Feeling burnt out and exhausted, do you feel like you're saying, God is calling me to slow down or you're saying, I don't know what God's calling me to do, but I just know that I'm exhausted and I just feel like there's a better way to this. And I know God has the answer. Like what, what would you say?

Dana: Yeah, I feel like, um, that second one really rings true. Um, but then I'm also in this tension where I know that if I'm getting like, good inquiries, I feel really aligned with like 25 to 30 couples a year. It's like, hard to say no. And then the price point that I'm at, I feel like I have to book 25 to 30 in order to make like a good income. So, um. But I just feel kind of stuck because I'm like, God, you're bringing me all these inquiries and that's so awesome, but I'm only one human. I'm only one person, you know?

Nate Chansky: Well, I'd say this, I'll say this, Dana. I think something that. Well, let me, let me, let me go back, let me step back. I gotta ask you more questions because I don't want to start talking until I actually know what we're working with here. Do you feel like there's a specific place that your exhaustion is coming from? If you could put it down, pin it down to too many weddings? Or, like, would you take less weddings? Why? Or why not? Or do you wish you could raise your prices? Have you tried? How did it go? Do you not want to do that? Or, um, is there anything, let's even say, like, your workflow, the work you're doing per wedding, per client, where you're just like this specific thing exhausts me over and over again. Like just thinking about this exhausts me over and over again. Like, maybe it's like the time juggling all the communication between all these people, or I feel like I'm always editing so much, or the traveling to and from a wedding, or the culling or the planning, or, you know, this thing that you keep getting in a rut for. So you tell me, where is this? Super practically speaking, where do you feel like the tension is?

Dana: Yeah, I don't want to say it's Overbooking. But I think that it might be, um, especially since I booked so many a year and then a handful of them want video as well. And I love offering both for my couples. And I have like an associate shoot the video portion. Um, but then like the editing ends up being a lot because it ends up being like more like 40 a year between photo and video. Um, yeah, but that's a lot. Yeah, yeah. Uh, so then I'm like, with all the editing, um, with doing photo and video, I just, I wish that I could book less. But I think at the price point that I'm at. So um, I just raised my prices to like four to six for photo. And then um, like an add on for video is like 2 to 3,000. Um, but I feel like I.

Nate Chansky: And how's that going with that new price point?

Dana: I've actually fluctuated between 4 to 6 and like 2 to 5 for the past like year and a half. I keep like raising and lowering my prices because I feel like when I raise them it doesn't really work. And then I have couples who inquire, they're like, oh, are you willing to lower your prices for um, like a smaller package, like five or six hours when I do all day, um, packages just for photo. Um, so I find that people don't really want to book me for that higher price point. But that's. I um, think that if when I raise my prices I can book less. I know that's like the whole structure. So I'm having a hard time with actually communicating like I'm worth four to six thousand as a wedding photographer.

Nate Chansky: But it sounds like you're turning some people down too because you book out.

Dana: I, yeah, I guess I do get to that point. Yeah.

Nate Chansky: Okay, so that, that's already a good thing because you have demand for your work that out, it outdoes your supply. So that's a perfect storm. It's a perfect weather pattern for raising our prices successfully. Um, when you say you do four to six for a wedding, just photo only. That's great. And then you say you do 2 to 4 ish for video.

Dana: Yeah, I only have two video packages. Just 2000 for Super 8 and then 3000 for if you want digital.

Nate Chansky: But are you doing the same amount of work for video as you are for photo?

Dana: I'm actually doing more for video. I do. It takes me more hours to edit video and I've got to pay associates on top of it, so.

Nate Chansky: Gotcha. So why are we not charging for that? What would you say no shame.

Dana: I just, um. I think people don't want to pay more for video than they do for photo.

Nate Chansky: You sure about that, though, or is that just a hunch?

Dana: I think it might. Well, um, before I started video, I, uh, would get couples who'd say, like, oh, we want to add video, but we're like our budgets, like a thousand. Because it's just like, a little bit off the top of the budget or we found some room in our budget, so now we're gonna add video on. But, um. So I don't know. Maybe it is just a hunch, but I definitely do. I have more editing work for video, for sure.

Nate Chansky: Well, I'll say this, Dana. I think you're at a place right now where you are number one, pretty primed to raise your pric. I think that's a number one. Like, we can establish that you can raise your prices. You're going to notice that there's going to be some people who. They don't like, that they don't want to pay your raised prices. But that's okay, because that's what we're raising. That's what raising prices does, is it weeds out the wrong people, and it brings in the right people, and then it compensates you more for the work that you're actually doing. So I do think that's one of the first steps we need here, is we need to reassess. Like, we need to maybe raise Dana's prices per wedding. Um, I also think that, you know, when you're doing photo and you're doing video, and then you said you're really getting to a place where you're doing 40 to 50 projects, let's call them projects per year. That's a lot of work, Dana. And that's. I'll tell you right now, I don't think that's a sustainable thing for you to be doing on your own. Now, I'm happy to hear that you do have some associates. I think that's a really good thing. But I think you would either need to build on that associate team, or you would need to raise your prices and cut back on the work that you're doing per client. Um, because, you know, you might. I mean. I mean, I even think to myself, like, some people, when they're in, like, their 20s or their low 30s, they can haul a lot of just, like, oomph in their business and just kind of physically bear it all. But, I mean, that's not very sustainable. Even the older you get and the more that your life changes you know what I'm saying? And the different circumstances in your life and you might wake up one day and be like, I don't want to keep doing it this way. And instead of getting to a place where you're burnt out and you're too far in to change, it's so much better now where you're at to say, I'm going to change things now early on before it gets to that type of a place, so that I can strategically build my business to a system, to a sustainable system where it operates better for both me and my clients. And I do believe that, uh, let's bring this back around to what God thinks. I don't think that God wants his people to be overworked. And God wants. I don't think God wants his people to be burnt out. I think that he wants a lot of times us to be slow, and I think he wants us a lot of times to take rest. I mean, even just you look at the, um, the mandate of take a Sabbath rest every week, right? And I mean, I've gone through seasons where I'm doing too much and I'm not really taking a full Sabbath rest per week. And that's not right. You know what I'm saying? Like, I gotta take that Sabbath rest not just for my, not just for, like, because it's a nice thing that God commands us to do because, like, my body needs it, my mind needs it. You know what I mean? Um, and so I do think you want to look at this from the perspective of not just how can I barrel through, make the most amount of money with the most amount of clients, whatever, but how can I be a better steward of this business so that I don't need to take on this many clients? I can still hit the revenue goals that I want to hit, right? And again, I can't say, uh, thus saith the Lord, like, this is what the Lord's telling me. I'm not that type of a person at all. But I do believe, I do believe, using wisdom that the, that the Bible has given to us. I do believe wisdom says in this type of case, you should really a raise your pricing. If that requires you to find clients who are willing to pay you those prices, so be it. I also think that you should distinguish between, am I taking this client as a photo client or a video client? Because sometimes doing both can be a little bit too much. I mean, some people, they rock it, whatever. But it sounds like, uh, from what I'm hearing from you, that it's Too much to do a double whammy on every single one and then do that like 45 times a year. I'll tell you right now, Dana, I could not do that. There is no way I could do that. You know what I'm saying? Um, and so to me, what I'm all getting to is I do think there is a time and a place right now in your business where something's gotta step back. But at the same time, I think that means you will be stepping forward in a whole different way.

Dana: Yeah.

Nate Chansky: Do you know what I'm saying by that? Like, give me some feedback on that so far.

Dana: Yeah. I think what your gut says that when it comes to, like, God's authority and it all that I'm really, like, my low prices is really from, like, a place of fear. Like, I'm not gonna book enough. So, um, I think what I'm hearing from you is like, yeah, raise those prices and just see what happens. And if it means that, like, the Lord puts me in, like, a slower season, then he's gonna provide for me in other ways, you know? And, um, if it means, like, I scale back video because that's the thing that, like, really increases my workload or just like restructuring it, then I. Yeah, I definitely feel like, yeah, God, but you just something different.

Nate Chansky: You just. You just defaulted, though, to the worst case scenario.

Dana: Well, I do that.

Nate Chansky: So I want you to default to. Because you said, well, God maybe is just pulling back and doesn't want me to do this or wants me to make less money or. How about this, Dana? Uh, what if God wants you to make more money and he's growing you in this process and he's like, hey, what we've been doing has been decent, but I'm going to take you the next level, Dana, and I want you to make more money doing less so that you have more time in your life, so that you have more sustainability, so that you have more time to spend with him, so that you have more time to sow into other people in your life, so that you have m. More flexibility, so that you're not burnt out and that you can take care of your body, your temple of the Holy Spirit. You know what I'm saying? And so to me, I believe that, yes, absolutely, the Lord can sometimes call us into a season of stepping back and maybe making less money. Absolutely. Like, there's no, there's nothing bad in that as long as the Lord is calling you into that. Right. Like, he's going to work into that just as much as he's going to work in a season of abundance. But at the same time, understand that he may also be refining you, like, pruning you so that he can grow the plant of who you are for further and further. Right. And then on top of that, you know, I wouldn't take the approach of, like, I'm just gonna raise my prices and just. See, I would be strategic as possible with it, and I would raise your prices. And I mean, I would read books on money psychology. I'd read books on sales psychology. I would find different. I mean, even you listen. Listen to what I tell you on different things in my podcast or my YouTube about, like, how to raise your

Dana: prices, like, and I definitely do.

Nate Chansky: Exactly. So you are informing yourself actively on how to do things most strategically. So you're building that in with your own free will, your own m. Personal responsibility, and you're pairing that with faith. And you're saying, God, m. I'm stewarding this business as best I possibly can, and I'm going to pair that stewardship, my humanity, with God's sovereignty and the faith that I have in God's sovereignty. And you put those things together, and I think that's where you have a beautiful business, no matter what it ends up being. Because that is, again, pairing that wisdom of this is my responsibility with God's sovereignty and the faith in his sovereignty. And so, to me, that's where we're headed next. Here is action and faith, not inaction and staying stuck and fear. Because I think that's where you've been. I think that's where you feel that pinch, where you feel that scarcity. But I want you to walk in this next season of the opposite of that, and I think you can.

Dana: Yeah, that sounds so good. I think. Yeah. I don't mean to, like, absolve myself of responsibility when I say, like, see what happens. Um, but I just know, like, the way that I've been doing things, and the reason why I asked the question is because I just can't. Like, I really feel like serving my clients is, like, the best thing that I could do. And that's what photography is all about. But I just cannot serve if I'm like, uh, running on empty.

Nate Chansky: Constant bingo. And so I couldn't have said it better myself.

Dana: Yeah, this is definitely encouraged me, but I.

Nate Chansky: So when you raise. So when you raise your prices, it's not just because Dana's greedy, because those inner accusations will probably try to come right. Or when you raise your prices, it's not that Dana's not worthy of that price point. Right. It's no. I am raising my prices because I have faith that the Lord can get me booked at these price points. I also have faith that I don't believe the Lord wants me burnt out and giving up this business that I currently love. And I have faith that the Lord can do above and beyond what I ask or imagine. And you know what I'm saying by that? And this is not me trying to be like, just pray and all will work out perfectly and God will just dump you with all these riches. That's not what I'm saying. But you're saying, I have faith in whatever your plan is, God. And by the way, I think your plan very well could be that I raise my prices. I get people booked at these prices. I'm less burnt out because I'm getting paid more per client and taking on less clients per year. And to me, that's where I see you going personally. And so that's, I think, that next step of Again, that faith over fear 100.

Dana: I had a friend ask me who's like, not industry at all. She was like, uh, how many wedding. It was like, such a random question, but, um, it like, really struck me. Uh, she was like, how many weddings would you, like, like to do a month if you had, like, control over how many you book? Because I was telling her how, like, busy my spring is and that I don't really get as busy in the fall.

Nate Chansky: Totally.

Dana: She was like, how many is like, in a perfect world, like, how many weddings would you like to book a month? I was like, no one's ever actually asked me that before, and I don't have any control over that. But I was like, two. Two sounds great. Because I can have two weekends on and two weekends off. And it was just a really interesting question because you're like, I've never asked myself that before. Yeah. And I feel like I'm always like, just because I've been in the early stages of building this business, um, I've been like, I'll just take whatever comes my way and I'll just. I always book a lot in the summer because that's when people book me and stuff. And I feel like, um, I felt a little out of control. But I think when it comes to raising those prices, I'll actually be able to say, like, yeah, I'm m gonna do two weddings a month.

Nate Chansky: Absolutely. And don't. And don't feel bad if you have to expand your business and, like, hire more team members to Take on these types of things. Or don't feel bad if you're like, I'm sending this client to somebody else because they're not right for me. Or don't feel bad if someone says, I'm not in that price point. Okay, someone else will be and I have to go find that person who will be. Right.

Dana: Yeah.

Nate Chansky: Um, I do think in this type of a situation, Dana, your next step, and this sounds fluffy, but this is what I would do, and I have to do this all the time, is I would truly pray to the Lord daily for wisdom on all of these things. Be like, lord, I don't know how to do this. I don't know what prices you want me to raise to. I don't know specifically what number of clients you want me to take per month. I don't know how to find these new clients. So maybe I'd be booking. I don't know if I should keep doing photo and video or should just choose one or keep doing both. I don't know if I should hire an assistant, hire an associate, hire two associates out, export my editing, whatever. I don't know, God, but I need your wisdom. And I am going to act in your wisdom when it comes and, you know, pray for circumstances, pray for wise counselors to come to you. Pray for, uh, confirmations of, oh, God's opening this door, or, hey, God closed the wrong doors, you know what I'm saying? Like, we're constantly praying over these things because more than any sort of coaching call I could do with you, the Lord can give you that wisdom on a day to day, moment by moment basis. And I believe it will come. The Bible literally says, like, God gives freedom. Uh, excuse me. God gives wisdom to those who ask of it. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's a promise. And so I do believe we have faith in those things and we expect that wisdom to come. And I do believe it will. It will guide you and direct you.

Dana: Yeah. Thank you so much. This is so helpful. Yeah, yeah, wisdom, um, it's definitely number one.

Nate Chansky: It's your next step. Faith over fear, too. Yeah, Dana, tell us where we can find you on social media, where we can find you on your website.

Dana: Yeah, 100%. Um, my Instagram is Dana Photoco and my website's danaphotoco.com.

Nate Chansky: easy peasy. I love it. Well, Dana, thank you so much for being with us today. And, um, I appreciate you sharing this question. I'm sure it probably felt a little vulnerable, so thank you for your vulnerability. I think a lot of people will get a lot out of it.

Dana: Uh, thank you so much. I appreciate you answering my question and encouraging me. I. Yeah, definitely have a lot to think through and m. Pray through after this.

Nate Chansky: You got a lot ahead of you, Dana. I'm excited for you.

Dana: Thank you so much.

Nate Chansky: Absolutely. You have a great rest of your day. Okay?

Dana: Okay, bye. Thank you.