Pax8 Roadshow Special - Nihil Morjaria

1 00:00:05,280 - > 00:00:08,080 SPEAKER_01: So, welcome back to Partnerships Unravel, the 2 00:00:08,080 - > 00:00:11,039 podcast where we dive deep into the mysteries and secrets of 3 00:00:11,039 - > 00:00:12,400 partnerships and the channel. 4 00:00:12,640 - > 00:00:15,919 Coming to you from PAX 8 Beyond and sitting down with Nihil 5 00:00:15,919 - > 00:00:17,920 Morjari from USecure. 6 00:00:18,000 - > 00:00:19,199 Did I pronounce your name correctly? 7 00:00:19,600 - > 00:00:19,839 SPEAKER_02: You know what? 8 00:00:19,920 - > 00:00:23,280 You were so brave to not double check the surname before and 9 00:00:23,280 - > 00:00:24,000 just jump with it. 10 00:00:24,160 - > 00:00:25,280 And yeah, you nailed it. 11 00:00:25,440 - > 00:00:25,679 SPEAKER_01: Yes. 12 00:00:25,920 - > 00:00:26,480 All right, good. 13 00:00:26,719 - > 00:00:28,160 We're not going to do a retake. 14 00:00:28,559 - > 00:00:29,199 Amazing. 15 00:00:29,359 - > 00:00:30,160 Hey, how are you? 16 00:00:30,480 - > 00:00:31,199 SPEAKER_02: Very well, thank you. 17 00:00:31,280 - > 00:00:31,440 Yeah. 18 00:00:31,600 - > 00:00:33,280 Beyond's always uh a big event. 19 00:00:33,359 - > 00:00:34,240 There's always a good buzz. 20 00:00:34,320 - > 00:00:36,799 And you know, just come out of the uh introduction sort of 21 00:00:36,799 - > 00:00:37,359 keynote. 22 00:00:37,439 - > 00:00:40,640 So yeah, it's uh it's an exciting opportunity, lots of 23 00:00:40,640 - > 00:00:42,399 ideas going around, lots of people that you can meet, lots 24 00:00:42,399 - > 00:00:43,119 of conversations to be had. 25 00:00:43,200 - > 00:00:43,920 So yeah, very well. 26 00:00:44,159 - > 00:00:44,479 SPEAKER_01: Amazing. 27 00:00:44,560 - > 00:00:47,039 Well, I'm hoping I can keep up the energy, but to start with, 28 00:00:47,119 - > 00:00:48,960 could you give us a quick introduction about yourself and 29 00:00:48,960 - > 00:00:49,439 your background? 30 00:00:49,600 - > 00:00:50,399 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course, yeah. 31 00:00:50,479 - > 00:00:53,679 So um Snihill, I'm the chief revenue officer at U Secure. 32 00:00:53,920 - > 00:00:57,439 So I've been at the organization for almost eight years now. 33 00:00:57,520 - > 00:01:00,240 Um, I've done basically every sales role there is to do within 34 00:01:00,240 - > 00:01:00,799 U Secure. 35 00:01:00,880 - > 00:01:04,400 I've cold called, I've done um managed teams, I've done the 36 00:01:04,400 - > 00:01:06,400 go-to-market stuff, I've done retention. 37 00:01:06,560 - > 00:01:08,719 Um, my background is in psychology. 38 00:01:08,799 - > 00:01:10,400 That was why I studied at university. 39 00:01:10,640 - > 00:01:13,519 And uh, so it's quite convenient that I've landed in an 40 00:01:13,519 - > 00:01:16,000 organization inside security that's all about human risk. 41 00:01:16,239 - > 00:01:19,120 So my focus is very much on making sure that we have the 42 00:01:19,120 - > 00:01:21,200 right people, the right processes in place to make sure 43 00:01:21,200 - > 00:01:22,159 our partners can grow. 44 00:01:22,319 - > 00:01:24,000 That's everything that I do at USQL. 45 00:01:24,159 - > 00:01:24,480 SPEAKER_01: Incredible. 46 00:01:24,560 - > 00:01:25,519 Hey, it's great to talk to you. 47 00:01:25,599 - > 00:01:28,159 And by the way, I think that psychology background is 48 00:01:28,159 - > 00:01:32,480 invaluable in any SILS role because what is SILS other than 49 00:01:32,480 - > 00:01:34,959 the like laying connection, understanding the other person, 50 00:01:35,120 - > 00:01:36,959 you know, understanding what you're looking to achieve 51 00:01:36,959 - > 00:01:39,200 together, like digging deeper than the surface level. 52 00:01:39,280 - > 00:01:41,680 So I think it's interesting, and I'll definitely come back to 53 00:01:41,680 - > 00:01:41,920 that. 54 00:01:42,079 - > 00:01:44,079 Um, let's talk a little bit about USecure. 55 00:01:44,239 - > 00:01:48,159 Um, you've skilled to 2200 partners, more than 2200 56 00:01:48,159 - > 00:01:48,640 partners. 57 00:01:48,879 - > 00:01:52,719 Um, I'm curious to know what was the biggest mindset shift that 58 00:01:52,719 - > 00:01:55,599 your team had to make to go truly channel first. 59 00:01:55,920 - > 00:01:59,359 Um, and how did that show up and how you structured your CRO 60 00:01:59,359 - > 00:01:59,599 role? 61 00:01:59,920 - > 00:02:02,799 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the so for the first three or four years of 62 00:02:02,799 - > 00:02:04,640 USecure, we didn't have a channel. 63 00:02:04,799 - > 00:02:07,120 We were purely direct-to-end customer. 64 00:02:07,359 - > 00:02:10,080 And it's a very competitive market in what was then just 65 00:02:10,240 - > 00:02:11,120 security awareness. 66 00:02:11,199 - > 00:02:14,319 We've now shifted into a more sort of comprehensive, 67 00:02:14,400 - > 00:02:15,919 wide-ranging human risk vector. 68 00:02:16,159 - > 00:02:18,639 But at that point, really competing on the 69 00:02:18,639 - > 00:02:21,680 direct-to-business model was very tricky. 70 00:02:22,000 - > 00:02:25,039 And so, from the from a commercial perspective, the 71 00:02:25,039 - > 00:02:27,680 biggest challenge was essentially having our reps buy 72 00:02:27,680 - > 00:02:30,159 into the idea that we are going to give away a significant chunk 73 00:02:30,159 - > 00:02:31,039 of margin. 74 00:02:31,439 - > 00:02:33,599 But what you get back from that is scale. 75 00:02:33,759 - > 00:02:35,680 What you get back from that is external support. 76 00:02:35,840 - > 00:02:38,319 We were bootstrapped, we were a small team, we had to be very, 77 00:02:38,400 - > 00:02:40,000 very efficient with our resources. 78 00:02:40,159 - > 00:02:42,879 And so the big challenge for me was making sure that before we 79 00:02:42,879 - > 00:02:45,439 go channel focused, I can get buy-in from our reps to 80 00:02:45,439 - > 00:02:49,120 understand that this isn't going to it's a short-term hit to your 81 00:02:49,120 - > 00:02:49,439 revenue. 82 00:02:49,599 - > 00:02:49,840 Sure. 83 00:02:49,919 - > 00:02:50,080 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 84 00:02:50,240 - > 00:02:52,159 SPEAKER_02: But long term, it's going to absolutely extrapolate 85 00:02:52,240 - > 00:02:54,159 because then you're going to have essentially outsourced 86 00:02:54,159 - > 00:02:57,280 sales functions where your job is to prime those people to be 87 00:02:57,280 - > 00:02:57,840 mini use. 88 00:02:58,159 - > 00:03:00,479 And all of a sudden, you can then scale out to thousands of 89 00:03:00,479 - > 00:03:03,199 partners whilst not needing to scale out your team internally. 90 00:03:03,439 - > 00:03:06,560 And so doing the groundwork before that change was really 91 00:03:06,560 - > 00:03:09,599 important to make sure that the reps are primed and excited by 92 00:03:09,599 - > 00:03:11,919 that and see as an opportunity rather than something that's 93 00:03:11,919 - > 00:03:14,800 going to cause friction or complicate their sales process 94 00:03:14,800 - > 00:03:15,759 or hit their revenue. 95 00:03:15,919 - > 00:03:16,159 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 96 00:03:16,240 - > 00:03:17,520 No, I think that makes so much sense. 97 00:03:17,599 - > 00:03:20,080 And it's the way that I have these discussions with sales 98 00:03:20,080 - > 00:03:23,199 leaders all the time is Ryan, there's there's a mindset shift 99 00:03:23,199 - > 00:03:26,560 required to think about channel sales as anything other than an 100 00:03:26,560 - > 00:03:27,919 extension of your sales, right? 101 00:03:28,000 - > 00:03:29,280 It's a force multiplier. 102 00:03:29,360 - > 00:03:32,639 And I don't see like obviously it's changing right now, this 103 00:03:32,719 - > 00:03:33,759 this uh this paradigm. 104 00:03:33,919 - > 00:03:36,000 People are starting to understand, and partner programs 105 00:03:36,000 - > 00:03:39,439 are starting to be developed to support that more effectively. 106 00:03:39,599 - > 00:03:42,400 But yeah, the idea of like, oh, my partner's coming for my 107 00:03:42,400 - > 00:03:44,960 commissions, it's like, no, no, no, your partner should be like 108 00:03:45,120 - > 00:03:48,639 2Xing your commission because you're you're uh extrapolating 109 00:03:48,639 - > 00:03:48,960 your network. 110 00:03:49,520 - > 00:03:51,520 SPEAKER_02: And it's about choosing those right partners 111 00:03:51,680 - > 00:03:54,240 where you they're not just a transacting partner, they're 112 00:03:54,319 - > 00:03:55,759 they're a partner that actually add that value. 113 00:03:55,840 - > 00:03:57,840 And it's such a buzzword, but you have to look for those 114 00:03:57,840 - > 00:04:00,560 partners where they have supplementary resources, which 115 00:04:00,560 - > 00:04:03,280 mean that you you internally as an organization can grow because 116 00:04:03,280 - > 00:04:05,199 you're getting insights from people that have experience in 117 00:04:05,199 - > 00:04:07,759 the channel, that have the network, and that can support 118 00:04:07,759 - > 00:04:09,680 you so that you're not a bottleneck anymore. 119 00:04:09,759 - > 00:04:12,800 You have these external sources that can provide those leads, 120 00:04:12,879 - > 00:04:14,879 that can provide that support, and that can help you to learn 121 00:04:14,879 - > 00:04:16,879 as a organization, but also as a salesperson. 122 00:04:17,360 - > 00:04:19,279 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think it's about again going beyond 123 00:04:19,279 - > 00:04:20,000 that surface level. 124 00:04:20,079 - > 00:04:21,759 I had a conversation with a friend of mine recently. 125 00:04:21,920 - > 00:04:24,399 We were talking about what network means. 126 00:04:24,639 - > 00:04:27,199 And he said, Look, some people say, like, oh yeah, I've got uh 127 00:04:27,199 - > 00:04:29,600 1,200 people on LinkedIn, that's my network. 128 00:04:29,839 - > 00:04:31,360 Like, no, it's not. 129 00:04:31,519 - > 00:04:35,600 Like for me, network is someone that I can call for a beer and 130 00:04:35,600 - > 00:04:36,240 for a job. 131 00:04:36,560 - > 00:04:39,120 And that person can call me for a beer for a job. 132 00:04:39,279 - > 00:04:41,040 And I think with partners, it's the same thing, like 133 00:04:41,439 - > 00:04:45,199 understanding what uh what their their um would you say that 134 00:04:45,279 - > 00:04:48,399 sphere of influence actually really is, as opposed to what 135 00:04:48,399 - > 00:04:50,879 they're saying it is, and then building on that, and then it 136 00:04:50,879 - > 00:04:52,079 becomes a rule for smaller. 137 00:04:52,319 - > 00:04:53,600 SPEAKER_02: And also someone that can challenge you. 138 00:04:53,680 - > 00:04:55,920 Like if it's uh if it's a true part of your net but a true 139 00:04:55,920 - > 00:04:58,160 friend, that if you're gonna say an idea that they think is an 140 00:04:58,160 - > 00:04:59,839 awful idea, they should tell you. 141 00:05:00,079 - > 00:05:02,240 Whereas if it's someone that you don't, it's it's like a just a 142 00:05:02,240 - > 00:05:05,600 LinkedIn connection, it's all uh uh an echo chamber of 143 00:05:05,600 - > 00:05:05,920 positivity. 144 00:05:06,879 - > 00:05:07,360 Yeah, exactly. 145 00:05:07,439 - > 00:05:08,480 It's like, okay, yeah, great idea. 146 00:05:08,560 - > 00:05:10,560 And then in the back of there's kind of like, oh, I'm not gonna 147 00:05:10,560 - > 00:05:11,040 do that myself. 148 00:05:11,360 - > 00:05:13,600 Whereas you need those people that can sense check and that 149 00:05:13,600 - > 00:05:16,000 can challenge your ideas, and that's how you then grow and and 150 00:05:16,000 - > 00:05:18,800 evolve rather than just uh happy years. 151 00:05:19,040 - > 00:05:19,680 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly. 152 00:05:19,759 - > 00:05:21,839 And I think that's the psychology behind it as well. 153 00:05:22,000 - > 00:05:23,199 So, next question. 154 00:05:23,360 - > 00:05:25,279 You mentioned you have a background in psychology, you 155 00:05:25,279 - > 00:05:28,240 bring that to your CRO role in a cybersecurity company. 156 00:05:28,399 - > 00:05:31,680 So, how much does that shape the way you think about like partner 157 00:05:31,759 - > 00:05:35,199 enablement, for example, but also to help getting MSPs to 158 00:05:35,199 - > 00:05:36,319 change their sales behavior? 159 00:05:36,560 - > 00:05:39,199 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's it's that that sales function is so 160 00:05:39,199 - > 00:05:43,120 important because it's you know the average MSP quite often is 161 00:05:43,120 - > 00:05:44,160 someone that's very technical. 162 00:05:44,480 - > 00:05:47,040 The commercial side of things is something that they understand 163 00:05:47,040 - > 00:05:47,920 is important to their business. 164 00:05:48,000 - > 00:05:50,319 They know is like the foundation of their business to be able to 165 00:05:50,319 - > 00:05:52,879 run, but it's the probably the part they're least confident in 166 00:05:53,120 - > 00:05:54,800 because they come from a technical background. 167 00:05:54,959 - > 00:05:58,560 And so a lot of our go-to-market messaging is about almost 168 00:05:58,560 - > 00:06:01,920 getting ahead of those issues and showing our partners that we 169 00:06:01,920 - > 00:06:03,120 understand the challenges that they have. 170 00:06:03,360 - > 00:06:05,519 They're all different, they all have their own backgrounds, but 171 00:06:05,519 - > 00:06:07,600 we have to adapt to the personas of the people that we're 172 00:06:07,600 - > 00:06:10,480 speaking with and think our expertise is in the human side 173 00:06:10,480 - > 00:06:13,279 of things, our expertise is on enabling them to go to market 174 00:06:13,360 - > 00:06:16,240 and enabling them to be able to have conversations around what 175 00:06:16,240 - > 00:06:19,759 can be quite abstract uh topics, but to be able to make it 176 00:06:19,759 - > 00:06:22,480 tangible, to be able to bring in real-life scenarios and examples 177 00:06:22,480 - > 00:06:23,839 that people can actually relate to. 178 00:06:24,000 - > 00:06:27,519 And so a lot of the work that we've done with our go-to-market 179 00:06:27,680 - > 00:06:30,720 strategy with our internal training is making sure that we 180 00:06:30,720 - > 00:06:33,519 can communicate those sort of problems to our customers and to 181 00:06:33,519 - > 00:06:36,000 our partners, and that they can almost become a mouthpiece then 182 00:06:36,079 - > 00:06:39,279 and they become trained by us in how to how to educate their own 183 00:06:39,279 - > 00:06:39,759 customers. 184 00:06:40,000 - > 00:06:43,759 And the human risk element is a really interesting antidote 185 00:06:43,839 - > 00:06:47,040 because so much of technology is is systems focused. 186 00:06:47,279 - > 00:06:49,600 And particularly now, everyone's talking about AI enablement, 187 00:06:49,680 - > 00:06:51,600 everyone's talking about software that that can be um 188 00:06:51,759 - > 00:06:53,199 that can evolve incredibly quickly. 189 00:06:53,279 - > 00:06:55,199 And yes, those things are fundamental, and they'll always 190 00:06:55,199 - > 00:06:58,319 be fundamental, but it's almost a nice change of pace to go back 191 00:06:58,319 - > 00:07:00,959 to well, there's still a person in front of their computer. 192 00:07:01,120 - > 00:07:01,279 Yeah. 193 00:07:01,439 - > 00:07:04,160 And how can we empower them to be able to use those systems in 194 00:07:04,160 - > 00:07:05,120 a more effective way? 195 00:07:05,279 - > 00:07:07,920 Um, and again, that's where the psychology background comes into 196 00:07:07,920 - > 00:07:10,399 it, is it's it's making people feel heard, making people feel 197 00:07:10,480 - > 00:07:12,720 understood, and it's making sure that we have frameworks 198 00:07:12,720 - > 00:07:15,680 internally so that we can tap into those kind of things and 199 00:07:15,680 - > 00:07:18,399 understand them as an individual person and then use that to make 200 00:07:18,399 - > 00:07:20,560 sure we can grow with them rather than just treating them 201 00:07:20,560 - > 00:07:22,720 as a number on a screen and a metric. 202 00:07:23,040 - > 00:07:23,600 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%. 203 00:07:23,839 - > 00:07:28,319 And and there's something almost ironic about um we when we talk 204 00:07:28,319 - > 00:07:31,199 about implementing AI, there's this narrative of uh human in 205 00:07:31,199 - > 00:07:32,000 the loo, right? 206 00:07:32,319 - > 00:07:34,959 But then when you talk about cybersecurities, indeed it's all 207 00:07:34,959 - > 00:07:36,959 systems and functions and tech and follow up. 208 00:07:37,120 - > 00:07:41,199 And like, well, but if I just put in my password into like a 209 00:07:41,199 - > 00:07:45,199 phishing email, then that no no system is is stopping me from 210 00:07:45,199 - > 00:07:45,680 doing that, right? 211 00:07:45,920 - > 00:07:47,519 Like answering a scam phone call, whatever. 212 00:07:47,600 - > 00:07:51,600 So the human element there is almost critically ignored from 213 00:07:51,600 - > 00:07:54,240 my perspective, even though that's like the the quickest 214 00:07:54,240 - > 00:07:57,920 point of failure, even if your tech is like massively well 215 00:07:57,920 - > 00:07:58,560 managed. 216 00:07:58,720 - > 00:08:02,160 Um, speaking of, um, you've talked about human risk 217 00:08:02,160 - > 00:08:05,199 intelligence and a new product you launched called UHealth. 218 00:08:05,759 - > 00:08:10,160 Um, I'm fascinated by human risk in the AI age, um, especially 219 00:08:10,160 - > 00:08:11,600 how you balance that narrative. 220 00:08:11,680 - > 00:08:14,000 But can you tell me a little bit about why this is important to 221 00:08:14,160 - > 00:08:16,879 offering uh UHealth and what innovations you're bringing to 222 00:08:16,879 - > 00:08:17,120 the table? 223 00:08:18,160 - > 00:08:20,480 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so one of the challenges that we've we've had, 224 00:08:20,560 - > 00:08:23,040 and I think everyone that deals with human risk has had, is 225 00:08:23,279 - > 00:08:27,040 often the program sits in isolation in its own tenant, 226 00:08:27,279 - > 00:08:27,519 right? 227 00:08:27,600 - > 00:08:29,680 And it's to do with, oh, okay, you've done this training course 228 00:08:29,759 - > 00:08:31,759 and you got this score, or you didn't click on this fish. 229 00:08:32,080 - > 00:08:32,399 Exactly. 230 00:08:32,480 - > 00:08:32,960 It's it's great. 231 00:08:33,039 - > 00:08:35,039 Let's pat ourselves on the back and let's move on. 232 00:08:35,600 - > 00:08:38,080 The thing is, is that there are so many real life signals that 233 00:08:38,080 - > 00:08:41,039 we don't incorporate into those programs that tell us actually, 234 00:08:41,200 - > 00:08:42,240 are they applying things? 235 00:08:42,399 - > 00:08:45,039 If you send them a policy that says you should not use your 236 00:08:45,039 - > 00:08:49,039 work email to sign up for um unapproved services, are you 237 00:08:49,039 - > 00:08:50,559 actually monitoring whether they're actually doing that or 238 00:08:50,559 - > 00:08:50,720 not? 239 00:08:50,799 - > 00:08:53,440 Do we have a sense check that allows us to verify whether 240 00:08:53,440 - > 00:08:55,360 those behaviors are actually being implemented? 241 00:08:55,600 - > 00:08:58,480 And so the idea with human risk intelligence is to bring real 242 00:08:58,559 - > 00:09:00,720 life signals into the use of your product. 243 00:09:00,799 - > 00:09:02,639 So and that's where UHealth comes into it. 244 00:09:02,799 - > 00:09:06,240 So we'll be able to um integrate with entra ID, and I'll be able 245 00:09:06,240 - > 00:09:09,360 to say, Oh, Michelle, you you've signed up for these 10 services 246 00:09:09,360 - > 00:09:11,440 in the last three months because you're testing a ton of AI 247 00:09:11,440 - > 00:09:11,919 tooling. 248 00:09:12,000 - > 00:09:14,320 And whilst that's great that you've got the appetite stealer 249 00:09:14,399 - > 00:09:16,960 and the proactivity, none of these are authorized. 250 00:09:17,120 - > 00:09:20,559 And uh our CTO has no visibility on where your data's going, 251 00:09:20,639 - > 00:09:21,840 whether those have been approved. 252 00:09:21,919 - > 00:09:24,799 And also it just so happens that you've not set up MFA on any of 253 00:09:24,799 - > 00:09:26,559 them and you've reused the same passwords. 254 00:09:26,720 - > 00:09:29,679 Sorry to use you as an example, but your face tells me that I've 255 00:09:29,759 - > 00:09:30,720 I've figured you out. 256 00:09:31,039 - > 00:09:34,399 SPEAKER_00: Um you use AI for that, but expression when people 257 00:09:34,399 - > 00:09:35,279 are reading that email. 258 00:09:35,840 - > 00:09:37,039 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly. 259 00:09:37,279 - > 00:09:40,159 So the idea is now if we if we have that in the same spaces, we 260 00:09:40,159 - > 00:09:43,039 can then say, oh, but Michelle's also been sent these um these 261 00:09:43,200 - > 00:09:44,799 training course on AI usage. 262 00:09:45,039 - > 00:09:48,240 And maybe uh now it means that we need to revamp that training. 263 00:09:48,480 - > 00:09:51,360 We need to use that to feed how we then fish him, um, because we 264 00:09:51,360 - > 00:09:52,720 know the services that he's using. 265 00:09:52,879 - > 00:09:52,960 Wow. 266 00:09:53,120 - > 00:09:56,399 And so then it then makes the program so much more tailored to 267 00:09:56,399 - > 00:09:57,519 you as an individual person. 268 00:09:57,679 - > 00:09:59,440 And UHealth is what gives us that insight. 269 00:09:59,679 - > 00:10:02,320 It tells us what you're signing up for, whether you've set up 270 00:10:02,320 - > 00:10:04,960 MFA, whether you're reusing passwords, whether you haven't 271 00:10:04,960 - > 00:10:06,559 reset your password in months. 272 00:10:06,720 - > 00:10:09,360 And the idea is again, it's bringing real life signals into 273 00:10:09,360 - > 00:10:09,840 the product. 274 00:10:09,919 - > 00:10:12,960 And then one of the questions that we get so often is well, if 275 00:10:12,960 - > 00:10:15,759 we get this, if we get insight into this risk, what do we then 276 00:10:15,759 - > 00:10:16,159 do with it? 277 00:10:16,320 - > 00:10:19,519 And the goal is then to give clear remediation steps to say, 278 00:10:19,759 - > 00:10:22,320 and that's so powerful for an MSP to say to their customer, 279 00:10:22,480 - > 00:10:24,799 we're taking all these risk signals now into the product, 280 00:10:24,879 - > 00:10:27,039 and I'm gonna do all these things for you to reduce that 281 00:10:27,039 - > 00:10:27,360 risk. 282 00:10:27,519 - > 00:10:28,960 I'm managing all of that for you. 283 00:10:29,120 - > 00:10:32,080 But here's a nice report that tells you what what um risk 284 00:10:32,080 - > 00:10:34,639 factors we've identified and the steps that I've then taken to 285 00:10:34,639 - > 00:10:35,360 remediate them. 286 00:10:35,600 - > 00:10:35,840 SPEAKER_01: Right. 287 00:10:35,919 - > 00:10:38,000 So you're actually hitting every step in the chain, right? 288 00:10:38,080 - > 00:10:40,879 So you're hitting the do you also align with the policies? 289 00:10:40,960 - > 00:10:43,360 Like, is that something you can automate where it's like, hey, 290 00:10:43,440 - > 00:10:47,039 you parse a policy of a company and you can link up those uh uh 291 00:10:47,120 - > 00:10:49,440 those variables to those policies? 292 00:10:49,759 - > 00:10:53,039 SPEAKER_02: So we can we we have policy documentation that we can 293 00:10:53,039 - > 00:10:56,559 send in the product, and we also can align that with uh certain 294 00:10:56,559 - > 00:10:57,039 frameworks. 295 00:10:57,279 - > 00:10:57,600 SPEAKER_01: Cool. 296 00:10:57,759 - > 00:11:00,559 SPEAKER_02: Um so UHealth is is the first step in this. 297 00:11:00,639 - > 00:11:03,360 Um, that is the integration with entra and it tells us where 298 00:11:03,360 - > 00:11:05,759 you're signing up for different services, whether you're reusing 299 00:11:05,759 - > 00:11:07,600 passwords, whether you have MFA setup. 300 00:11:07,759 - > 00:11:11,600 The longer term goal is to then feed that into um custom policy 301 00:11:11,600 - > 00:11:15,120 creation so that we know that you're um that Dora is relevant 302 00:11:15,120 - > 00:11:17,039 to you as an organization because in the EU, you work in 303 00:11:17,039 - > 00:11:17,840 the finance sector. 304 00:11:18,000 - > 00:11:21,440 And so we can then feed in policies to then understand um 305 00:11:21,600 - > 00:11:24,720 whether those uh uh frameworks are being met by the policies 306 00:11:24,720 - > 00:11:25,039 that you have. 307 00:11:25,120 - > 00:11:26,720 So that's a bit more of the longer term plan. 308 00:11:26,799 - > 00:11:28,480 But the initial idea with UHealth, what we'll be 309 00:11:28,559 - > 00:11:32,480 launching, is get those insights from ENTRA, use that real life 310 00:11:32,480 - > 00:11:34,639 signals, then feed the humorous intelligence program. 311 00:11:34,879 - > 00:11:38,480 And then we have uh real-life behaviors coupled with still the 312 00:11:38,480 - > 00:11:40,639 importance of security awareness training, simulated fishing, 313 00:11:40,720 - > 00:11:40,799 yeah. 314 00:11:40,879 - > 00:11:44,399 But it becomes a much more robust understanding about you 315 00:11:44,399 - > 00:11:45,279 as an individual person. 316 00:11:46,000 - > 00:11:48,159 SPEAKER_01: What I like so much about that, it's very exciting 317 00:11:48,159 - > 00:11:52,080 to me because it removes the kind of rote nature of 318 00:11:52,080 - > 00:11:54,720 cybersecurity training and awareness, is where if you 319 00:11:54,720 - > 00:11:59,039 tailor the the uh the simulated attacks to people's behaviors, 320 00:11:59,200 - > 00:12:02,559 it's gonna be more difficult for them to actually intuit them, 321 00:12:02,639 - > 00:12:03,039 let's say. 322 00:12:03,120 - > 00:12:05,360 And it's like um when you're driving, when you do get your 323 00:12:05,360 - > 00:12:07,759 driver's license, you do like you look at your inside mirror, 324 00:12:07,919 - > 00:12:10,320 you look at your outside mirror, you look over your shoulder. 325 00:12:10,480 - > 00:12:13,039 But when I was doing my driver test, I was just kind of doing 326 00:12:13,039 - > 00:12:13,679 that automatically. 327 00:12:13,759 - > 00:12:15,840 And then I was like, oh, I actually have to look at what's 328 00:12:15,840 - > 00:12:16,159 going on. 329 00:12:16,320 - > 00:12:18,639 And I think that's a bit analogous to what you're saying 330 00:12:18,720 - > 00:12:21,840 here, is what you're triggering people to actually take control 331 00:12:21,840 - > 00:12:24,639 of their uh their their their cybersecurity awareness. 332 00:12:24,720 - > 00:12:25,759 And I think that's a really cool move. 333 00:12:25,840 - > 00:12:27,919 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a really important point as well because 334 00:12:27,919 - > 00:12:30,320 it's it builds a culture of accountability. 335 00:12:30,720 - > 00:12:34,000 It's the end users so often when we speak to organizations that 336 00:12:34,000 - > 00:12:35,840 are trying to deploy humor risk, yeah, yeah. 337 00:12:36,000 - > 00:12:38,320 The end users aren't necessarily informed about what the 338 00:12:38,320 - > 00:12:40,159 expectations are there as an employee. 339 00:12:40,240 - > 00:12:42,960 It's almost a case of, oh, our IT function or our MSP have 340 00:12:42,960 - > 00:12:46,480 these things in place, and I'm sort of secondary to security. 341 00:12:46,720 - > 00:12:49,519 And instead, if we can have a continual program that empowers 342 00:12:49,519 - > 00:12:52,960 them, again, it comes back to the idea of of culture about um 343 00:12:52,960 - > 00:12:54,000 accountability, yeah. 344 00:12:54,159 - > 00:12:58,559 It then it then makes them an active unit in the security 345 00:12:58,559 - > 00:13:02,080 posture rather than just a passive secondary um line that 346 00:13:02,080 - > 00:13:03,600 then often is where things fall apart. 347 00:13:03,759 - > 00:13:06,159 If we can then have them proactively contribute towards 348 00:13:06,240 - > 00:13:08,799 security posture, we then have another layer and then these 349 00:13:08,799 - > 00:13:11,200 people in the systems feet together, all of a sudden we're 350 00:13:11,200 - > 00:13:11,840 much more robust. 351 00:13:12,080 - > 00:13:13,679 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that makes so much sense. 352 00:13:13,840 - > 00:13:14,879 A fascinating approach. 353 00:13:14,960 - > 00:13:19,600 Well one thing I I do want to end on is where do you see AI 354 00:13:19,840 - > 00:13:24,639 like rocket shipping the human risk management domain in the 355 00:13:24,639 - > 00:13:25,360 next couple years? 356 00:13:25,519 - > 00:13:27,600 Does it make the MSP's job easier? 357 00:13:27,759 - > 00:13:30,159 Um, does it change what they need to sell and deliver? 358 00:13:30,240 - > 00:13:31,759 Does it work together with them? 359 00:13:32,720 - > 00:13:35,200 SPEAKER_02: It makes things easier if you have the right 360 00:13:35,200 - > 00:13:36,159 processes around it. 361 00:13:36,480 - > 00:13:39,360 So one of the challenges, if you if you collate all this 362 00:13:39,360 - > 00:13:43,279 information, um but you don't have the right processes and 363 00:13:43,279 - > 00:13:45,679 frameworks to then be able to understand that data, 364 00:13:45,840 - > 00:13:48,799 operationalize it, and act upon it, then you just drown in 365 00:13:48,799 - > 00:13:49,279 information. 366 00:13:49,519 - > 00:13:53,200 And so what a lot of our better partners are doing is they are 367 00:13:53,200 - > 00:13:55,519 looking at what data they can pull, but before they start to 368 00:13:55,519 - > 00:13:57,440 then present that to their customers, they already have a 369 00:13:57,440 - > 00:13:59,840 workflow that says, if I get this information, here's what 370 00:13:59,840 - > 00:14:01,600 needs to happen, here's what needs to happen after that, and 371 00:14:01,600 - > 00:14:03,039 here's the impact that it has upon you. 372 00:14:03,200 - > 00:14:05,840 And then they can wrap that into this brilliant service, which 373 00:14:05,840 - > 00:14:09,200 they can increase their margins off because it's it's output 374 00:14:09,279 - > 00:14:09,840 led, right? 375 00:14:09,919 - > 00:14:11,279 It's it's here's the impact of it. 376 00:14:11,360 - > 00:14:13,200 It's not a case of going to them and saying, This is the 377 00:14:13,200 - > 00:14:15,039 information we found, what do you want to do with it? 378 00:14:15,200 - > 00:14:16,320 It's I found this information. 379 00:14:16,720 - > 00:14:16,960 Exactly. 380 00:14:17,679 - > 00:14:17,919 Exactly. 381 00:14:18,000 - > 00:14:20,159 I found this information, I've acted upon it, and here's how 382 00:14:20,159 - > 00:14:21,120 it's helped you as a business. 383 00:14:21,200 - > 00:14:22,559 And all of that has happened in the past. 384 00:14:22,720 - > 00:14:26,000 Now, AI is a massive enabler to that, but you have to put the 385 00:14:26,000 - > 00:14:28,480 structures around it to make sure that as we're using these 386 00:14:28,480 - > 00:14:31,440 tooling, as we're gathering that data, we can then maximize it. 387 00:14:31,600 - > 00:14:33,759 And so I think that's the challenge that a lot of our 388 00:14:33,759 - > 00:14:35,919 partners are having and will continue to have over the next 389 00:14:35,919 - > 00:14:37,279 year is those teething issues. 390 00:14:37,360 - > 00:14:39,679 And I think a lot of people will drown in information and then 391 00:14:39,679 - > 00:14:40,960 try and figure out what to do with it. 392 00:14:41,120 - > 00:14:43,360 And it's the the more proactive partners that will have the 393 00:14:43,360 - > 00:14:45,519 structures in place that mean when they get that information, 394 00:14:45,600 - > 00:14:47,759 they already know how to then feed it in. 395 00:14:47,919 - > 00:14:50,559 And that's where they can then charge exponentially more 396 00:14:50,639 - > 00:14:53,440 because for their clients, it's a it's a very value and 397 00:14:53,440 - > 00:14:55,600 outcome-driven um service they get from their from their 398 00:14:55,600 - > 00:14:55,919 provider. 399 00:14:56,000 - > 00:14:58,320 Yeah, they're willing to pay for that because it's a massive 400 00:14:58,320 - > 00:14:59,440 headache that'll be taken away from the. 401 00:14:59,679 - > 00:15:01,840 SPEAKER_01: Well, and especially if you can then benchmark that. 402 00:15:02,159 - > 00:15:06,639 Like uh non-human risk empowered uh end customers compared to 403 00:15:06,720 - > 00:15:07,840 human risk-empowered emperor. 404 00:15:08,080 - > 00:15:08,960 I think that's fascinating. 405 00:15:09,120 - > 00:15:11,679 Um, hey, to end this, do you have any final thoughts, 406 00:15:11,840 - > 00:15:14,080 insights, tips, or tricks you'd like to share with myself and 407 00:15:14,080 - > 00:15:15,840 the audience here at Pikes MPI, though? 408 00:15:16,399 - > 00:15:23,200 Um isn't just general like like meditation life tips, or or 409 00:15:23,200 - > 00:15:26,960 anything related to you secure to the channel, to your to your 410 00:15:26,960 - > 00:15:27,759 solutions, anything. 411 00:15:28,159 - > 00:15:31,679 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh I think it comes back to the point that you 412 00:15:31,679 - > 00:15:34,399 met you made earlier about the network side of things. 413 00:15:34,639 - > 00:15:39,279 I think it's it's incredibly important that people talk to 414 00:15:39,279 - > 00:15:41,200 one another, that people come to these events, that they share 415 00:15:41,200 - > 00:15:42,960 what what challenges that they're having, and that they're 416 00:15:42,960 - > 00:15:43,919 honest about them as well. 417 00:15:44,159 - > 00:15:46,960 It's so tempting to come to these things and paint the 418 00:15:46,960 - > 00:15:48,480 rosiest picture about your organization. 419 00:15:48,559 - > 00:15:50,399 Everything, everything's great, everything's going fine, all the 420 00:15:50,399 - > 00:15:50,639 crazy. 421 00:15:50,879 - > 00:15:52,879 And and ultimately everybody has certain challenges that they're 422 00:15:52,879 - > 00:15:53,279 working on. 423 00:15:53,360 - > 00:15:55,840 And fundamentally, when you just sit down and speak to people, so 424 00:15:55,840 - > 00:15:57,679 often there's a lot of crossover in those. 425 00:15:57,840 - > 00:16:00,240 And so I think one of the great things about working the channel 426 00:16:00,320 - > 00:16:02,480 that we've we've realized over the last four or five years in 427 00:16:02,480 - > 00:16:06,000 particular is it stops you being an isolated organization. 428 00:16:06,159 - > 00:16:10,159 But you have to be um it takes a a a villager to build a village, 429 00:16:10,240 - > 00:16:11,679 you have to be part of that community. 430 00:16:11,919 - > 00:16:13,600 Um, and so that would be my advice. 431 00:16:13,679 - > 00:16:14,799 We we've gained a lot from the channel. 432 00:16:14,879 - > 00:16:17,600 I hope we give a lot back, and it's important that people keep 433 00:16:17,600 - > 00:16:20,159 on keep on communicating, keep on discussing those sort of 434 00:16:20,159 - > 00:16:22,000 challenges, and that's what helps me with continually grow. 435 00:16:22,240 - > 00:16:22,799 SPEAKER_01: No, I love that. 436 00:16:22,879 - > 00:16:26,399 I mean, keeping in on uh in line with the whole surface level 437 00:16:26,399 - > 00:16:28,320 thing, it's beyond the surface level. 438 00:16:28,559 - > 00:16:31,120 If we have to start having more real conversations, being 439 00:16:31,120 - > 00:16:32,720 honest, because then we all grow, right? 440 00:16:32,799 - > 00:16:34,559 Like a rising tide lifts our buttons. 441 00:16:35,039 - > 00:16:35,440 I love it. 442 00:16:35,519 - > 00:16:36,240 Hey, thank you so much. 443 00:16:36,639 - > 00:16:36,960 SPEAKER_00: Hey, and