The Power of Leading With Empathy - Episode 179

Speaker A: This season of Open Space Radio is sponsored by the wonderful folks at BCI Burke. Play brings people together through connection, creativity and growth. At BCI Burke, they design outdoor recreation environments that inspire exploration and support the work of park and recreation professionals, including the next generation of leaders shaping the future of play. Together, we're creating spaces where everyone feels welcome to move, play and belong. Learn more@bciburke.com. Hello and welcome to another episode of Open Space Radio, the official podcast of the National Recreation and Park Association. I'm, um, your host, Court Jones, and I'm joined today by my co host, Christina. Hi. Hey Christina.

Speaker B: Hey Cort. Glad to be back for another episode.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm so excited for this one. And today we are talking about leadership and specifically what it means to lead with empathy and how great leaders really create opportunities for us others to grow and lead, no matter their title or position.

Speaker B: Yes. Joining us for this conversation is Shannon Harris, Executive director of the Carson Valley Swim center and past president of the Nevada Recreation and Park Society. Shannon has built a reputation as a thoughtful and people centered leader and today we'll be getting her take on empowering staff, building trust, and creating a culture where everyone feels valued and supported.

Speaker A: Yes, and I recently had the pleasure of attending the NRPS annual conference and um, something that I don't talk about, I mean I talk about it a little bit but like, I'm quite introverted and when I go into a space where I know no one, except maybe like our CEO Christine at uh, the place that I'm going and there's hundreds of other people, I get immediately kind of withdrawn and uncomfortable a little bit. And like words don't get strung together. And then I met Shannon and I felt immediately welcomed and comfortable and like this warm and fun impression. And Shannon's now one of my favorite people around. So whether you're leading an agency, managing a team, or looking for ways to make a greater impact in your organization, we think today's conversation is going to be really valuable. So Shannon, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today.

Speaker C: Oh my gosh, Corey, you are so welcome. And Christina, great meeting you and thank you for having me here. My gosh, no one can see but you. You made me blush a little bit, buddy. Yeah, no, honestly, I would not have known that about you because you were just as warm and welcoming as, uh, the next person. So I'm glad you had a great time. We loved having you in our space and you are welcome back anytime. And Christina, you too.

Speaker B: I can't wait to get out there. Yeah.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Yeah. We're gonna make it happen.

Speaker B: Good.

Speaker A: Such a wonderful time spending time with you and your team. And, uh, so we had to get you on the podcast to chat with you about leadership, because the amount of times that I heard Shannon is just like the best leader and so many people just giving you your flowers throughout that week was pretty inspiring. And, uh, when people talk about leadership, they often picture someone with a title. And you do have the title of executive. But what does leadership mean to you, and how have you seen it show up at every level, either at the Carson Valley Swim center or in other organizations that you've been a part of?

Speaker C: Well, yeah, so I think it starts first with being present. Right. You've got to show up. It's what I tell my team. That's what I tell my lifeguards. That's what I tell people on the National Recreation and Park, um, society is that you have to first be there, and you have to say yes. That's the first step. And when you start showing up and you start building relationships, you know, you can make an incredible impact after that. It takes a team. I mean, I, I, I have a leadership role, and I've got leadership titles, but, but trust me, I could not do what I do at the Carson Valley Swim center or at the statewide level without the people around me. And so I value those professionals. I value those relationships because they fuel me and they allow me to succeed as well. So it's funny, when you think of leadership, it's not just like, you've reached leadership, and that's the pinnacle. You know, it is so much more. It's about, you know, continued growth. And I think also it starts with Horton, Christina, um, self awareness. I have to be aware of where I am so that I can be the best person for others. I haven't always been a great leader. There are times where I've gone through some really rough times through this profession, um, as well as other parks and rec and nonprofit jobs. And the time I was not a good leader and I struggled the most was when I wasn't aware of, um, my own emotions. I wasn't aware of my own securities. And it takes time to develop those skills. It's not just overnight. So show up, um, and self awareness, and you'd be amazed at where it would take you in your relationships with other people.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that you bring that up, that emotional awareness and perhaps that interpersonal growth and the challenging times as well. And you've held different leadership roles in aquatics and across the profession. Through that time, what have you learned about the connection between empathy and effective leadership?

Speaker C: Well, they go hand in hand. We. I say we as my team. Again, um, I take a people first approach. We all have stories. Most of us have families were worried about. I think the biggest thing is just to understand that everybody is human and that we have more in common than, uh, we realize. Um, we're all, you know, kind of searching for the same goals. We all want to feel safe. We want to be valued, we want to be heard. And so with empathy, you know, again, it starts with being present. I don't think you can lead and not be present. You don't gain the respect from others. And then the other piece is just be a good listener. Understand who's around you and what their story is and kind of what is their why. We've talked about this for several years here, um, at both the state and an organizational level is why are you here? What are your whys? Because that's important. And, and I want people to know my whys. I think it's important for them to hear that as well. Is, you know, I get up every morning wanting to serve our community, and I'm hoping that I've got a team around me that wants to do the same thing. So, you know, finding those commonalities, being a good listener, you know, it's amazing the relationships that you can develop just by doing those two things.

Speaker B: Yeah. Listening is so important, and I think a huge component of that is taking the time to slow down. I think a lot of folks in leadership positions are perhaps trying to churn out results and are taking time to spend a moment thinking about what's going on in each individual's lives or how folks are perceiving things and how the different situations are coming across. And being that active listener really shows how you're supporting your team. And I think that's a beautiful thing.

Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you. And, uh, you know, with active listening, too, is you have to make sure that there's no judgment that comes with that. You know, that's the other big piece. It's like, you know, if you're going to be an active listener and people start trusting you, it's amazing what they share with you. You know, we. We've got a lot of people that come into our aquatic facility, you know, who have just lost their spouses, and we're the one place that they feel safe. Um, you know, I've got staff who are struggling right now with, you know, their parents being Ill or worrying about their children or some sort of struggle. And so with being a good listener, um, and that empathy piece is also, you know, really taken again, that. That humanistic approach and that people first approach. I believe that if you are not healthy and happy, how are those around you going to be healthy and happy? And so I not only take care of myself and understand that, you know, as important as work is, my family comes first, uh, my health comes first. And then I make sure that my staff understand that they are just as important as I am. I don't care that I'm the executive director. I'm one little piece to a much larger team. I just play a different role than them, um, on a bigger team. And so I want them to understand, too, that they matter. Their health matters. Mental, um, emotional, social, physical, all of it. And so take care of yourself first. And the nice thing is I've got a supportive board, uh, as well. And so we have policies in place that support that philosophy and, and really build up our culture in such a way that the team knows that we are coming from a place of empathy automatically by our policies and our procedures. And so it also starts there. What's the structure of the facility or the organization that you're working at and what kind of environment do you want to be a part of and play an active role in creating that for yourself and the team around you?

Speaker A: Uh, I love that so much. And yeah, that. That active listening piece is so critical. I've had leadership that do that really well and then leadership that don't. And it's a very clear difference in, like, your own experience, moving through your work. And so I appreciate that so much. And I want to focus in on something you were talking about there for a second, because I think it's really interesting you mentioned the policies that make your team know that you're leading from a place of empathy. Could you dive into that a little bit more? Because I think that's really interesting and something that other agencies might be able to take and learn from a lot. Like, if it's embedded into the policies and the culture of your organization that is so important.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Cor. So, um, this is just one. One example that just happened these last couple of years is that, you know, we have a sick policy, and it was a bit narrow. I mean, it talked about if you have to go to the doctor, um, if you lose a loved one and have to go to a funeral, and it needs to be immediate family. And so I found myself wanting to take care of My staff during times of stress, um, or anxiety outside of work. And I was limited by the policy and so I dug a little bit deeper into it and I wanted to make the policy a little more kind of global. It's like, wait a second, if you've lost a pet, that may hurt you as much as losing a human member of your family. And I wasn't able, through our sick policy to allow staff off to be with their pet in their last moments, you know. And so I went to my board and I said, look, I said we have to take better care of our team. We need to make sure that they're at home taking care of themselves. Because if they're at work and they're not present, they're not doing us any good. Especially when you talk about really safety sensitive positions. I mean, I need to make sure that my lifeguards and my aquatic supervisors and my entire team maintenance and my cashier managers and my cashiers, they have a lot of responsibilities, we have a lot of safety that we need to focus on and worry about essentially. And if they're not on their game, they can harm themselves and others. And so why not let them be at home and heal, no matter what their mental stress is, so that they can come back and be more present, uh, for not only the team around them, um, but also the patrons that come, um, and use our facility as well. That's just one example of changing policy. Went to the board, said, look, we need to loosen up this wording a little bit. This is the culture we want, this is the culture I want to create and so will you pass it. And the great thing was is they did. And so, you know, this team now knows that if they're having an off day, they don't even need to explain to me why they needed to take that day off. It's that I can't be at work today and that's all it requires. And then we pick up the slack, um, that day, that week, whatever it takes. Because we know that there's going to be a day that we're potentially going to need that mental health day as well. And they've got my back because of that. So it creates an amazing cycle of caring for one another and uh, team building essentially is what it is.

Speaker B: Yeah, it sounds like there's an incredible amount of trust and reciprocity happening and that's a really refreshing thing to see, especially in a fast paced space, especially in summertime with aquatics being as chaotic as they can be. Um, do you have any recommendations for an agency who might not have the resources or capacity to be as flexible, is there a way you can nurture that same idea without that maybe that time? Flexibility, Right.

Speaker C: Yeah. That's an interesting question. Um, you know, not everybody has a supportive board like me. I need to remember that I'm very blessed in so many ways. I think the first thing that comes to mind is, you know, as a leader, you need to be aware of what the policies are to begin with. Right. And then understand the process. Who do you need to go to to create change? Who do you need to develop a relationship with to create change and understanding who that is. So if you're a manager reporting to a director, you know, and the director seems unreasonable, for example, or you don't think you're going to be able to pass a policy through your, you know, your board, if that's the case, or board of supervisors, whatever your case may be. You know, I think the important thing is going back to building relationships and building trust with one another. That's where it starts. That's where change starts. That's where you can feel more comfortable approaching other people and then hopefully in return that again, they would be somewhat of a good listener or take time to understand that the team is maybe not in a great place. And this small step can improve the culture tremendously. So, yeah, that's a tougher one. But again, you're right. I mean, I've been around people. I think the times I've struggled is when I wouldn't haven't had the support around me. You know, those were the times where I was stressed out as a leader because, you know, I haven't always had a supportive board or a supportive director in my positions. And, you know, it's really, again, just about understanding that you're trying to do the best for your team and not giving up on that. You might not get a yes answer right away, but it doesn't mean if you don't keep bringing it around that, you know, eventually you might create some change.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. And, um, I think it speaks so well to our focus on systems change and really looking at the policies that not only are impacting the communities that you all are serving, but the people who are doing the serving of those communities as well, like making sure that they feel heard and cared about and seen and supported. And so I think what you all are doing is just. Yeah, like Christina said, it's super refreshing and also not surprising just knowing who you are. Shannon. So that's amazing.

Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you. It's not easy. I mean, leading people, it's a hard position. It comes with a lot of, um, stress. You realize that you're not going to make everybody happy all the time. I mean, and trust me, I have been challenged. But again, it's about self awareness. Uh, I'm going to go back to that. I'm better when I understand where I am at in my life and I take care of me first. I can just show up for others in different ways than if I'm stressed or closed off or crabby or, you know, I feel defeated in this area. Uh, so leadership is a fascinating thing. And I'm ever growing, I'm ever growing. I'm learning from those around me. You know, my lifeguards, this is a different generation. I mean, I'm Gen X through and through and they have actually taught me the different generations that I work with, um, have taught me to be a better leader. And you know, there's been times where I've been resistant. I'm going to be really honest, where I'm like, no, my way is working and you know, this is how it needs to be. And I have changed over the years. Even the 12 years I've been here at uh, the Carson Valley Swim Center, I have changed how I lead people. And I think that's a big piece of it too, is that you need to remain flexible and you need to understand kind of what makes people show up every day. And I'm going to go back to, you know, what is their why? What is my why? Can we find some common ground? Because, you know, there's a lot of 15 year olds right now that I work really hard at connecting with them. They are living a completely different life than what I lived when I was a kid. The, the societal pressures and the social pressures and the social media and you know, they're Snapchatting all the time and want me to Snapchat, you know, information to them. And I'm like, I don't know how to work Snapchat. I mean, you know, so even though there's, there's a gap in some differences, it doesn't mean that you can't show up for one another every single day because they know if they are not feeling good, um, whatever that looks like to them, um, that they can come to me or come to my aquatic supervisor specifically and, and say, you know what, I'm just not present today. I need some support. And we provide that for them the best that we can. It doesn't mean they can always leave the Lifeguard stand and take the day off, but at least we are aware and provide a safe environment for them to share so that we at least know something is wrong and then we can best support them throughout their shift or their day or whatever comes their way.

Speaker A: Totally.

Speaker B: Mhm. I love the continuous learning piece. I think that's huge in leadership in today's world. I feel so many folks get high up in our organization, an agency, department, and they get this air of arrogance about them and they find that they think they know everything and don't seem to take any seeds of knowledge from other folks who might come from different perspectives. And having those different ideas from different generations and different backgrounds is so important. So that's really lovely to hear.

Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you, Kristen. I surround myself by people who are smarter than me and more successful than me and who have a different skill set than me because I want to learn from them. And that's what, you know, this younger generation. So I see the younger generation. So of course they're helping me with my technology and, you know, all of that. And so it empowers them. Right. I don't know how to do this. Can you show me how? And then it's not so scary to come into the director's office. You know, it's not like being sent to the principal. When you create an environment that says, hey, again, I'm just one piece of a larger team. I may be the pitcher on the team because I have that director title, but it doesn't mean I don't need a first base or a catcher or an outfielder or, you know, a designated hitter. It just means that, you know, we've got one goal, you know, and that is to create a season environment for our team. And so when I create an environment that's like, I'm not, you know, I'm the director and you need to listen to me. You're going to lose half your team right away. Nobody wants that. No one wants to be around that person. You know, the one coming from ego and power and greed and all those things that, you know, I've learned that the more human I am and the more vulnerable I am, you know, the more connected I feel with those around me. Even with the Nevada Recreation and Park Society, trust me, running a society without an executive director. There were some hard times and there were some hard decisions that had to be made, but I knew that I had a team around me because I was approachable. And I kind of came from a place of, you know, care and again, empathy. And so you Create an environment where you're more approachable. I mean, court, you started with that, right. That you tend to be kind of shy and quiet. Quiet. And it's like you felt welcomed. It's because I just try to come from an extremely humble, real place. I'm no better than anybody else. I just happen to have been promoted. And so I want to make sure that those around me don't feel like I'm unapproachable. Doors always open. I know that's kind of a cliche, like open door policy, but there really is something do that. The other thing is, is I'm always out talking to people. I'm making an effort, um, to build those relationships and be a good listener. I used to walk past the lifeguards and be like, hey, how are you? And keep walking. And they'd be like, oh, good, how are you? And by the time they said, hey, how are you? I was 10, 15ft away from them. And I'm like, that is probably the rudest thing I could have done to them today. And so that's that self awareness, right? I was just rude. That's terrible. They really wanted to know how I was doing, and so I made an effort to turn back around and go, that was rude, and I need to be accountable. And I wanted to connect with you, and I didn't do a good job doing that. And so guess what? The next time I say hi to you, I'm going to stop and I'm going to make eye contact. I'm going to connect with you. I'm going to be in your moment, and then we will move on from there. And so, you know, you make small changes like that, and it can have a pretty significant impact.

Speaker A: Yeah, I. I love that example so much. Um, and just like, your own awareness of how that could have been perceived by that person, like, that says so much, too. I think, um, I don't think, like, it's rare that people even take that second thought sometimes, especially with attention spans and all of the things these days, you know, And I think it's like you talking about surrounding yourself with a team that you're constantly learning from. I think that is huge. That's something that I am so grateful for. Like, I mean, Christina. I'm constantly learning things from Christina, and I'm just like, what? Like, this is a wonderful idea. And so that makes your role as a leader that much more fulfilling when you don't feel like you have to be the one at the top, just kind of orchestrating the things and like you've got a team that you trust that you know, are like fully capable and intelligent and all of the things and they're comfortable coming to you. Like that is, I mean that's huge. One thing, you know, that I keep hearing you talk about is like empowering folks to act as leaders sometimes even if they are not, you know, in a leadership position. And so how do you approach that where, and it's, you know, making them feel like they have ownership over the thing and, and that, you know, makes them feel like they're in uh, somewhat of a leadership position from their perspective. And so how do you go about empowering folks to know that they are leaders regardless of their title?

Speaker C: Well, that's a great question. So first you have to believe in them. I think that's where it starts. If you don't believe that they've got the ability to lead or you don't believe that they're a good team member, you don't believe in, you know, you think negative and you don't build those relationships, then it's not going to work. So I approach everybody believing that they have some skill or some ability, um, that is going to be able to contribute to the team. And so again, I don't care if you're a 15 year old, um, and it's your first job here. Showing up every day to work and interacting with the public itself is a form of, of leadership. So sometimes you just have to break leadership down too, that it looks different for people. It doesn't mean, you know, necessarily you're the one coming in, making all the decisions. Are you the one, you know, driving policy? Leadership shows up in so many different ways. And so what I really tried to do is we created a senior lifeguard position here for an example. And so we want our lifeguards to be able to realize that there's a step to between them and their first job at our facility and working full time. So we created the senior lifeguard position because our goal is to coach and mentor these lifeguards and build up their self esteem, praise them when they do something good, acknowledge when they make a rescue or make a great decision or stay focused all day. And then as they build, um, their confidence and their skill set, then they can apply for this senior lifeguard position which allows them to stay here, make more money and be able to make more higher end decisions, work more closely with the full time staff here. So I think that's just one example that we allow for kind of that stepping stone of we recognize that you have this ability and we recognize you have these talents in these different areas. And so let's raise you up and let's foster those. Let's continue to coach and mentor you. So, you know, Court and Christina, one of the things that, um, I talk to my leadership team about, which are my full time staff, um, we meet monthly. It's kind of a, I can't think of the name of it. But we, but we all sit down every month and we catch each other up with, with our challenges, with our concerns, with any staffing issues. We, we educate one another in each one of the departments so that we really understand where our entire team is as a whole. And you know, a part of that is, is we take the approach with our part time staff and each one of our departments that we want to make these employees a better employee for somebody else. And that's huge for us. So, you know, whether you're 25 and in college and you've got, you know, six years under your, your belt of work, it's like there's still room for growth and room for understanding. And, you know, you can, you can still raise them up in so many different ways. And so we start with that approach of we want to make you a better employee for somebody else. Trust me. Do we want to keep them 100%. But in my line of work and in parks and recreation, we know that there's a lot of movement. That's the reality of it. And so we want them to come in and go, you know what, this was a great, safe environment to learn in. And I'm ready now to go and fulfill my college dreams or, you know, my dream to become a fireman or paramedic or a doctor. And so you just never know what you're sparking in others and what kind of leader they can be. But it, but it starts with recognizing first that everybody has the potential to lead in some way, figuring it out, understanding what makes them tick and then fostering that.

Speaker B: That's beautiful. Yeah.

Speaker A: The way you said, like, you never know, uh, I'm going to butcher this now. But like, you never know the spark that you're going to ignite in others. Like.

Speaker C: Right. You don't.

Speaker A: Yeah. Beautiful.

Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, you don't. And you know, it goes back to the fact that I've had these people in my life too. Right. So I have to give those around me credit. I had a very young age. I had people around me who believed in me. And I know that it made a huge difference in how I approach life and how I approach jobs and how I approach those around me because, you know, and so I want to be able to give that back. I have been blessed and I have taken in the knowledge of those around me and I've had mentors and I've had coaches and I've just had, you know, people that I can rely on and some of the craziest times in my life. And so it's now I've reached a point in my life where it's time to give back. So I find myself, right. I'm in my 50s now, and I find myself going, okay, it's time to give back. It's now time to be that person for somebody else. And so that's what gets me up in the morning and gets me excited about my day. Whether it's working on a state level or partnering on a national level or my day to day work here. Giving back to my community is that it's time to give back. And that's extremely rewarding for me personally. That's kind of my why is I grew up in this great community, have moved away a couple of times, have been in other positions in other areas. And I came back because I recognize that this community that took such great care of me growing up through some really tragic times, personal tragic times in my family, that I'm in a position now where I can really give back and I can create that next generation of, you know, young adults that will become adults that'll hopefully be our next county manager and our next board of commissioners and our next park and rec directors and, you know, the next Carson Valley Swim center director. And again, unless you get to know people, you're never going to know what role they could potentially play, play in, you know, the overall health and wellness of your community, um, and other communities if they decide to move away. So I just want to foster healthy human beings. And it's not easy right now. It's a very stressful time for a lot of people. Our teenagers are facing stresses that I could not even imagine when I was growing up here. This community looks completely different. And so what can we do to help support them and realize that they are leaders in the making? No matter if they are in an office by themselves. Right. Or they're working from home, there's so many ways that you can impact those around you. And that's the spark that I want to bring out in people, is you don't have to be a lifeguard forever. Um, but look at what these skills can do for you moving into other potential, potential careers and what's available to you. And part of being a good leader, too, is having partnerships and realizing that there's people in this community that can create change for you and can be a resource for you as an aquatic facility. So I've got a great relationship with our fire district and our police department and our hospitals. And so when these young adults are like, I just don't know what I want to do, but I think I want to do this. You know, because of the relationships I have built outside of here, I'm able to go, you know what, I can actually get you in contact with the chief at the fire district, or I happen to go to school with the sheriff. You know, why don't you email him and, you know, see if you can do a ride along or, you know. And so building relationships and being a leader overall, it can lead you and those around you into incredible places that you never thought possible. And again, people have done that for me, and so I thank them for that because they have brought about an awareness of who I wanted to be when I grew up. And that's where I'm at today. Um, and again, I continue to learn. I do not have all the answers. I'm not even close. I will not be the brightest person in the room. But you know what? If you are somebody that people want to be around, it's amazing what you can. Can learn from others.

Speaker B: Yeah. This entire conversation so far, I feel like, is so rooted in teamwork and community and beyond leadership within your own immediate organization. What I'm hearing is that you're truly inspiring kindness throughout the entire community. And it's like planting seeds, and it's going beyond just aquatics and parks and recreation. And I think that that is a really impressive and inspiring perspective to take, that this work is not just within this one silo of aquatics, of recreation, et cetera. It is the entire community. The neighborhoods, the different departments, the fire stations, et cetera. And I think that that is a really beautiful lens to look at all of this work through, the ripple effect, that everything that you do when you lead it through kindness is just going to continue to have the community blossom.

Speaker C: Christina, thank you for bringing that up. You know, kindness, uh, to me, is so simple. It doesn't take a lot of energy, and it can be one of the most changing, influential things that you can do for people. Life's not easy. And if you just approach people with kindness and empathy, you know, that's the start of some really beautiful relationships. And you're right. Uh, I'm stronger when I have people and groups around me. I think we're all better together. Right? And so that's why it's so important for us to create so many relationships outside of this swim center. I mean, I can come to work every day, stay in my little silo, go to my office, get all my work done, you know, and not bother with anything else. But that's not healthy for, um, our organization, and I recognize that. And so through these partnerships, what's really cool is having a partnership with local search and rescue and the local fire department and police department. You, uh, know they're first responders, and so you're able to expose your lifeguards and your first responders to other first responders in the community. And so they can learn and grow and just be better professionals for me by understanding what these other professions outside of these four walls go through. And so we've learned from our local paramedics and fire, like how to properly handle emergencies and hand over a scene to them.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker C: Or we've had them come in and bring in the canines, um, from the sheriff's department into our staff, which meetings to talk about, what do the K9s and law enforcement do, and what does dispatch do to help educate us on how this community and how Douglas county runs as a whole? Um, that's important to know that, because we don't live in a silo. And, you know, the more, again, that we can partner with those, the more educated we become and the more we can use them to further our goals, our mission, and create this culture of continuous learning and growth. Um, and those people are not going to want to be a part of our organization. What are they going to gain from it? They're putting in volunteer hours and what are they going to get? But if they understand what we're doing here to better our community, it's like we're all on this much bigger, larger team together, and we're able to create a healthier community as a whole. When you understand what one another's roles are here. Search and rescue comes in every summer and they teach our safety portion of our swim lessons. And a lot of people are like, well, really? Well, that's interesting. Why don't your instructors teach the safety portion? They're trained and paid to do that. Well, you know what? When we're teaching swim lessons in a controlled environment, 81 degree temperature pools with 83 degree temperature, and you can see clearly to the bottom of the pool, you know, where most drownings occurring. They're in our lakes and rivers. Well, what does search and rescue do? Well, they go save people out of lakes and rivers. And so they bring in a whole different component of understanding to our swim lessons that help these kids and even adults understand, you know, hazards of water and safety around our irrigation ditches and our lakes, where you don't always have visibility and there's entrapment. And so we're able to bring those skills in and boost our swim lesson program up to a level like we've never been able to do before. And so that's part of that more global picture of what can we do for one another as a community. And again, it only makes us stronger.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I can only imagine what all of that has, like, leading with kindness and then also bringing in folks from different community organizations who can foster more growth and really put that trust and investment into your team. What that does for retention, I can only imagine, like, looking back at some of the first jobs that I've had and the managers and leaders at those positions, and the energy that I got was, you know, sometimes they were like, okay, I know this is like a high school job, and I know this person is thinking of going to college, but we would love to have this person forever. And I got this energy of, like, you don't want me to succeed, but to have that trust and that, uh, understanding of where this person wants to go and bringing in other people to truly foster growth, I mean, yeah, I can only imagine it would make all of these folks want to come back time and time again each summer to work and how impactful that is on the whole team.

Speaker C: Right. And the longer you can retain employees that are good employees, the less effort you're putting into having to train and onboard and orient and, you know, the time and resources it takes. So it's much easier to create a healthy environment and an incredible culture where they do return. I mean, it, it takes work, um, but at the same time, the rewards are endless. Gosh, I just, you know, I've lost a couple, um, of college students that haven't come back this year because they actually got their college degree. And when I look back and go, wow, you've committed six years here, four years in college, two years in high school, and ask those questions, what makes you want to come back? You know, what are we doing right? What could we do better? Um, you know, that's the important thing, too, is that again, I'm going to go back to. I don't have all the answers. And they Teach me to be a better leader. When you're open to new ideas and you're open to some criticism, you know, that's the other thing is, is hear people out. Doesn't mean you have to internalize it, but hear people out and see where you can do better and be better. Because you are gonna retain people and you're gonna have. Even down at a patron level, when you're happy and your staff are happy, guess who else is pretty happy. And that's your patrons. You know, those are the people that you're serving in the parks and rec field. I don't care where you're at or what level you're at or how small or large your organization is. If the people around you know that you care and you're kind, they're going to keep coming back. And the amount of growth and healing that can occur in that environment is mind blowing. Mind blowing. I mean, we watch people in this facility come back every single day, no matter what they are going through. We've had some people experience some horrible tragedies or strokes or heart attacks where, you know, they've. They've had major surgeries and they come in in a wheelchair, and then they come in again in a wheelchair, and then they come in a week or two later in a walker, and then a couple months later, they're in a cane. And I've seen people go from a wheelchair to independently walking again. Because of the environment that we provide, it's safe, it's comfortable, it is, um, inclusive. We make sure that we don't care what ability or age you have a place here and you have the ability to get into our building, get into the restrooms, locker rooms, and then get into the pools, because that's where the healing is going to occur. And if we didn't have that type of culture and if our staff weren't friendly, those people wouldn't come back every day, you know, and so we see that time and time again. Is that the more kind you you are, the more compassionate you are coming from a place of empathy. Again, the amount of healing that occurs. We have people who lose their spouses. I am devastated for them. We lose a lot of people in this field of, you know, serving some, some of the older generation. And they come back the next day and I asked them, I can't believe you're here. I, uh, like, you just lost your spouse yesterday. And they're like, this is where I need to be. This is where my community is.

Speaker B: You're gonna make me cry.

Speaker C: Well, And Christina, I'm in tears. They're in tears. I'm hugging them. And that's the other thing is that. That's about. That's about me not being afraid to show vulnerability either. I mean, I used to think that crying was just such a sign of weakness, and you can never cry in front of your patrons, and you can't cry in front of your staff. And, oh, boy, was I wrong. That's one of the lessons that I've learned, is that the more real I am and the more vulnerable I am, you are able to connect with those around you, because, again, we have more in common than what we realize. Um, we want to feel safe, we want to feel valued. And so, you know, when you show that vulnerability, you know, they're going to be for me, as they're for me as much as I am for them, and it's a great place to be in.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: That. That's such a powerful testament to the community that you are fostering. The. The way you have built your team and, like, encouraged their growth. The thoughtfulness with which you all have designed the physical space there, which. I was lucky enough to get a, uh, private VIP tour from you, Shannon. And it is. I mean, it's beautiful and, like, very clear that you all led with intention and inclusion when, you know, designing the space and the fact that people are coming there and saying that that is where they need to be in some of their darkest, toughest times is. I mean, I, uh, don't think it gets much better than that when you can create a space that is that for people. And so I commend you on building a space like that. And also, best place to take kids every single year since forever. I mean, it's amazing.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's fun. You brought that up. So, yeah, our community votes every year in these different categories, and one of them is the best place to take your kids. And we've won, like, 12 years in a row. And then we've won several, um, you know, sporadic years before that, because. Yeah, no, I've talked a lot about our seniors. And again, what's great about this facility is that, you know, we're able to serve our entire public. That's our promise to our community, and that is the promise that so many park and rec professionals, you know, have in their communities. Again, I don't care how small you are, how big you are. Urban, rural, you know, suburban. It's like there are so many other professionals that, you know, take the same approach that. That we do. And kudos. To them. Um, because Parks and Recreation is supposed to be about, you know, places of healing and creating safe places that are inclusive no matter what you're going through, no matter who you are, no matter who you love, no matter what your ability is. And, you know, we're 37 years old, believe it or not, Court, and I know when you walk through, you were impressed by kind of how, like, new our facility felt and seemed, you know, 37 years old. It's a challenge every day to make sure that we are clean, to make sure that we are safe, you know, to make sure that we keep up with our assets. It takes a lot of time and energy, but we are very intentional in what we do every single day that we're here because we know that the end goal is to serve our community and be the best place place for them and be the healthiest employer in our county as well. Especially having every generation work here. Um, you know, I've got 15 year olds I've talked about. I also have, you know, a couple employees in their 80s. So I've got every generation that plays a role here because again, it's about recognizing people's abilities, their skills, their strengths. And then, you know, one important, important pieces is then getting them into the right position for them so that they can thrive and succeed. So same thing with our patrons. Let's create an environment where they can thrive and they can succeed. And that's our goal. And make sure that everybody who comes in in the beginning of the day or their day goes home at night. That's our ultimate goal is, you know, and, and want to come back. You know, we. We don't do any good just serving somebody when one day it's like, we want you to come back. And so you've really created this intimate feeling that, you know, not only the team or kind of, um, you know, work, family, but also our patrons. Get to know them. You know, get to know them. And, and they will continue to advocate for you. They will continue to speak highly of you, um, to their neighbors, um, and they will continue to show up every single day as well.

Speaker B: Wow. I want to work there.

Speaker C: Christina.

Speaker B: Just kidding. I love nr.

Speaker A: Wait, can we talk about this version? No.

Speaker C: Christina, come to my side. Let's do it.

Speaker A: That sounds. That sounds amazing.

Speaker C: No, I'm not going to steal you, I promise. But, you know, and again, uh, trust me, there are hard days. It's not all sunshine and rainbows and butterflies. There are hard days. There are challenges. You know, there's always funding concerns. You know, there's staffing concerns, but again, those things at the end of the day don't matter when you have a team who's willing to work side by side with one another. So if we can't afford something right away, we're going to make do with what we have and be extremely creative with reusing what we have. You know, we're going to take care of our equipment. Equipment to begin with, um, and create that culture of, you know, making sure you respect everything and everyone around you. And, you know, I'll tell you guys, I've certainly had to terminate people, and, you know, I don't want to bring this conversation down, but, you know, sometimes people get into positions where it's not right for them. Um, that's not where they're going to thrive. And, you know, part of leadership is leading with bravery and not being afraid to have some really, really hard conversations. Really hard conversations. I mean, trust me, our patrons aren't all sunshine and rainbows either. I mean, there are some that. Gosh, there was one day I thought one of the patrons were actually going to physically hit me one day during COVID He was so angry at the system and. And, you know, and so those are some scary times. But I woke up the next day and realized that he had so much more going on in his world and that it wasn't about me, and he's not going to change who I am and how I'm going to lead this team and, you know, the rules that we're going to have in place and the safety measures that we're going to have in place. So, again, bravery is a big piece of this. I've had to terminate people who are going, you know what? I just don't think this is the right spot for you. But guess what? I know so and so in the community, and I think you'd be a great fit there. And so it's about, you know, letting people know that it's not a reflection of them if things don't work out. That it's just at this time in their life, this may not be the best thing for them and offer alternatives. You know, don't just come in and be like, well, I think this. And I think that you're going to do this and you're going to do that. Nobody's going to respect that. I mean, you brought that up, Christina, that, you know, if you come from a place of ego and power, who's going to respect that? Nobody. But if you come in with a place of, hey, this is What I'm thinking, this is what I'm seeing. This is what I'm feeling. Having those tough conversations and offering an alternative, um, can actually go a really long way.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's super powerful.

Speaker C: Yeah. That's just part of creating, you know, that, that healthier environment.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah. And again, it, it just speaks to how you're recognizing each individual that is part of your team as what they are. They're human and they've come in and they've taken a risk to join a team that they're learning to be a part of and to be terminated is, you know. Yeah. A scary thing. And to offer encouragement and other options is just. Yeah. Uh, a testament to the empathy that you're leading with. And I think the, the way that you're restructuring and maybe perhaps like not doing a typical hierarchy where you're truly supporting your staff instead of leading from the top and having folks, you know, be delegated and such and really investing in these people.

Speaker C: Right, absolutely. And understanding how important everybody's role is. I don't care what level you're at. I don't care if you are, you know, janitorial or, you know, you're a, uh, board of trustees. I'm going to treat everybody the same because you have an important role every single day. I couldn't be this successful, you know, if we didn't have a clean facility. And I couldn't be this successful, you know, if I didn't have an educated board that I trusted. And so, you know, I know that there's of course, hierarchies and different job descriptions and all that, but like I said, when you take the approach of that, we're all just playing a different position on a much larger team. Again, I don't care what the sport is, I don't care what you connect with. Just think of it that way, is that, uh, trust me, I don't want to be out lifeguarding anymore anymore. And trust me, those lifeguards don't want to be doing budgeting every year and public speaking. And so it's like. But we need both to be successful. Right. And so that's where you just value everybody where they are at and, and understand that it takes so many different types of people and learning and approaches to, uh, be successful.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it's just, I mean, it just comes down to, and you've said this throughout the entire time, but it's just recognizing everyone's humanity and just honoring that and leading from that place. And I mean, you're doing it well, um, and it's a pleasure to be able to chat with you and learn more from you and how you are doing this and in a way that makes everyone around you feel valued and seen and heard, um, and supported. And so I guess to wrap up this wonderful conversation, I feel like we could continue on and on and on. Um, is there anything that you didn't get a chance to touch on that you know, you think would be valuable? Any last words you would like to share with, um, with listeners, um, and inspire them to become a better leader? If they've listened to this, they're already inspired. But yeah. Any final thoughts?

Speaker C: Oh, well, thank you. You know, I guess, um, one of the big things, and I've touched on it a little bit is that you just have to show up. I'm going to go back to that. I'm going to come full circle when you show up. Um, you never know what experiences you're going to be able to have. So, you know, say yes more often. Be present and get out of your comfort zone. Um, uh, it's hard at times you become vulnerable when you step out of your comfort zone. But again, I believe that's where some true connection can really occur. Right. Because I'm only in my skin, I only know my life, I only walk in my shoes. And so my perception of um, you know, the world could be very self centered and it could be just one way. And until you um, again get out of your comfort zone and meet with people you've never met with before, go to meetings you know, you are a little bit uncomfortable about, you know, and just say yes. I think that's where most of my growth has occurred as a leader. And it has built confidence in me in ways that um, I have grown, you know, personally, professionally and the more you do it, the easier it becomes. And so again, there's going to be some hard times and some bumps in the road. There's going to be critics. You can't make everybody happy. Listen to those critics. Those can be your teachers as well as those that are, you know, giving you kudos all the time. They're teaching you something as well. Be open to growth, but don't internalize those critics. That's one of my biggest lessons that I continue, um, to work on is that I tend to be a little sensitive and so I tend to stay away from those critics. And you know, you know, at the same time it's, it's important to hear them out, get a different perspective and don't internalize it. Don't let them blow out your flame.

Speaker B: Those are great, great tips as, as a cancer who's also sensitive, I'm going to take that one and, uh, hold on to it.

Speaker C: Good girl. Good girl. Yeah. Huh? Constant reminder. I'm like, yeah, okay. Don't take that personal. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: That's a great, great lesson, uh, to learn. So this has been wonderful, Shannon. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us. And, yeah, uh, can't wait to see the future, uh, for you, for the Carson Valley Swim center, uh, your beautiful state. Can't wait for us all to get back out there. Again, thank you so much.

Speaker C: Fantastic. Thank you for Christina. I really appreciate this time.

Speaker B: Thanks, Shannon.

Speaker C: And I appreciate your leadership in your roles as well. So thank you for what you do.

Speaker A: Thank you. To learn more, find resources we discussed in this episode or listen to past episodes. Visit openspaceradio.org and you can find even more stories and content on the Open Space Blog and by reading NRPA's flagship publication, Parks and Recreation Magazine. Check it all out@nrpa.org if you'd like to share feedback about the show or just say hi. Reach out to us@openspacerpa.org or give us a follow on Instagram penspaceradio. And if you enjoyed this episode or learned something that might help you make a positive impact in your community, please consider making a donation to nrpa. You'll help us build a future where the full power of Parks and Recreation is widely recognized for creating a better life for everyone by building strong, healthy and resilient communities. Visit nrpa.org donate to give today. Thanks for listening.