Making Time For Your Next Chapter | Business Growth Strategies With Mitch Matthews

I know when I was a new leader, if I didn't have the answer, I was so tempted to fake it. Oh yeah. Like try to be the most confident, wrong person in the room and say, well, this is it. This must be it.

But I realized when you do that, you actually cut at your credibility. How do you think that impacts that person's leadership when they're trying something new? Consistently? A mastered a phrase, especially in these situations, and that phrase is, I don't know.

But let's figure it out together. What I see is a lot of people get hooked in creating a perfect plan, not a hypothesis. A perfect plan has all the answers, knows everything that's gonna happen, and it's gonna work perfectly, which never happens ever, right? Like I work with, you know, millionaires and sometimes even billionaires, and I can tell you almost every plan.

Doesn't go to plan. You make that best guess, you take your first step. You check that last part of the scientific group method is to evaluate and adjust to my leaders that I coach. I always say, Hey, in your mind, put your lab coat on every day you walk into that office because you're a scientist today, my friend.

And if you do that, you will learn and grow so much faster and have a lot more fun. Most entrepreneurs wait for permission. Permission to be ready, to be perfect, to have all the answers before they start. Mitch Matthews calls BS on all of that from sweeping floors at a bike shop, to becoming a sought after keynote speaker and coach, and working with names like Nike and nasa.

Mitch has built a career around giving himself and others the green light to start small, stay curious and figure it out as they go. In this episode, we are digging into why beginner energy is a superpower. Why imperfect action beats waiting for clarity and how you can build a business and a personal brand that grows with you. Alright, Mitch, we are so excited to have you on a Nice, clever today.

I was looking over some of the notes. You said something that really spoke directly to me, and it's something we talk about a lot here on Not Nice, clever. We asked you to share some things that you cannot shut up about, and you said giving yourself permission to be a novice. Yep.

Giving yourself permission to start small. Yeah. And giving yourself permission to not have all the answers. Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. Uh, it's. So good. We always say permission granted here on not nice.

Clever. I love that because we realized, especially I, I started out as a teacher, I don't know if you know this about me. Yeah. But I was a middle school teacher and I realized that permission is really fake.

There's not real permission because my students would ask me, Hey, can I go get a drink of water? Can I go to the bathroom? And I was like, I just say yes, and then they could do it. That's so interesting.

Permission is not even real, I don't think. Right, exactly. Especially as adults, you know? But it's that thing of, we do learn that we should ask permission, which in a a middle school, elementary school, even high school situation, that's probably good, right?

We wanna honor teachers. But that's a great example of where that starts to work into our mental DNA. And then as adults we do, we start to wait for somebody else to give us that permission. And I do think it's one of the great cheat codes of, of great leaders, great entrepreneurs, globe changers, is not waiting for permission all the time, but say, Hey, why not?

And why not me? So let's start. Right. And I love, I love the three that you picked too, because I'm a coach.

I, I'm a speaker too, but I'm a, I'm a coach. And I'm, I'm expensive, so I only tend to work with really successful people. And it's funny because I think these, these things of like as an example, giving yourself permission to be a novice, that's important for everyone. But I actually think it's even more important for wildly successful people.

Yes. And I know you have a lot of very successful people that are in your audience. Right. And I think sometimes people like say, well, if you're successful.

You don't have to be a novice anymore. It's like, well, actually, that's dangerous. Right? I always say, you know, success can actually be dangerous when we don't, when we stop giving ourselves permission to be a novice at things, because it, it's very alluring.

You know, when you have success in an area, whether it's a career track, whether it's an organization, there's a real temptation to not get yourself in situations where you don't have it all together. Where you don't have, have all the answers, all of those things. Yeah. But where we tend to grow the most is when we give ourselves time and space to be new at something, to not have all the answers to, to delve into areas where we might try, whether it's a new strategy in business or just taking a fricking cooking class.

Or doing yoga like this. You know, I try to do one thing a year or I give myself permission to be a novice. One of those couple years ago was yoga, which it's because I said that's something, uh, I, I, I said it wasn't my best day, but I'm like, yoga's stupid. I don't need to do yoga.

Yoga's dumb. But I, you know, I used to be a martial artist so I could like do the splits, all that stuff. In that era of my life. Yeah.

When I said yes to yoga, I could barely touch my kneecaps. You know, like my flexibility was all gone. So I'm like, yoga's stupid. I don't get it.

Everybody's like, nobody's talking. Why does this work? Duh. And then three months in, it was one of the greatest gifts I'd ever given myself.

But I had to be willing to be a novice. And in that case, I had to be willing to really not be good at something for a while. It's so interesting 'cause I know going into. A yoga class can be really intimidating, especially when people go every single day or week or whatever.

And they've been doing it for years before. Exactly, yeah. When there's people beside you touching their, their tops of their feet. To the tops of their head.

Yeah. And I'm like, I can barely touch my ankle. Like, you know, but I think that that's the beauty of it. And I, but I do think, and I'm, you know, I'm guessing your audience wildly successful people, right.

Probably get that and it's sneaky, right? That, that we would achieve success in a given area, whether it's, you know, again, in education or entrepreneurship, whatever we have that people get to know us as that success. And then to walk into a room where we don't know what we're doing. Feels extra scary.

Like for the person that's just a Netflix couch potato, they like, we don't have to give 'em that permission to be a novice. 'cause they don't care. They're not pushing themselves. Nobody knows them as anything, all that stuff.

Right. But for that successful person, that feels like a bigger risk. So that's why I always say you have to be really intentional with giving yourself that permission, and it doesn't have to be across the board. You don't have to try new things in every area of your life.

It's still good to stay with many of those things that have brought you this, that success. But to intentionally choose areas to be new at something is so powerful and so freeing. How do you think that impacts that person's leadership when they're trying something new consistently? Yep.

Do you think that shows up in the way that they lead? I absolutely do, and it, it goes with one of the other permissions that you grabbed a hold of, that I love is giving yourself permission, not, not have all the answers. I don't know about you, but when I was new in leadership, I thought the way that I brought the most value was to have all the answers. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And I think a lot of leaders are tempted that way, and a lot of leaders get promoted to a position because they aren't knowledgeable, because they have been successful in a certain role. But once you start leading a team as an example. You wanna attract people who are wildly talented, who are also successful.

You know, sometimes they do want the quick answer. Sometimes they do want the solution from you and, and sometimes I always say, Hey, there are gonna be times where the building is on fire and you need a quick answer. Like, absolutely. But there are absolutely, sometimes even when we have a solution to say to the person, Hey, you know, what do I think I should do here?

What do you think I should do? And to say, well, you know, I have some ideas, but. What do you think, right? To allow them to own that next step.

You know, that that could very well be, that they might have some ideas, but they also have some fear around not going the way they'd hoped or may maybe looking like, you know, they're, they're making a mistake, those kinds of things. But to offer ownership, to invite them into the process to hold them as capable as leaders is one of the greatest gifts that we can give. But I also think. You know the importance of trust when it comes to leadership, right?

It's so funny. I know when I was a new leader. If I didn't have the answer, I was so tempted to fake it. Right?

Oh yeah. Like just to grasp at stuff and just say, well, I, you know, like try to be the most confident, wrong person in the room and say, well, this is it. This must be it. But I realized when you do that, you actually cut at your credibility.

The only person that believes you're being credible is you. Everybody else in the room knows you're faking it. What's amazing is to use that, that permission and, and a phrase that I love, and I use this, I have an amazing team. I, I hire really talented people.

It's a little intimidating sometimes, but I mastered a phrase, especially in these situations, and that phrase is, I don't know, but let's figure it out together. So if somebody comes to me and says, Hey, what do you think we should do? And I don't know, I love that phrase to be able to go, I don't know. Let's figure it out together.

Yes. And it is, that also is so freeing because it, it does hold that team member up. Mm-hmm. This also works with teenagers, by the way.

Right. It also holds that person as capable. You are showing that one. I trust you enough to be real with you and I trust you enough to be a part.

Of the solution. And what's amazing about that is that when leaders do that instead of cutting at their credibility, it actually builds credibility. It actually builds loyalty, engagement, all of those things. And so it's amazing how those two.

Two permissions go so well together. Yeah. I think growing up you are always in the same level with people, right? Like you all start t-ball together.

Right? Right. And, and growing up you think that that's the way it's going to be forever. But once you get to become an adult and you are in leadership positions, things change.

You're not all growing at the same pace. Right. And it's going to feel more uncomfortable in a situation like that because. You are not starting day one of T-ball at the same time.

Yep. And that's exactly right. As adults, that feels so uncomfortable. How do you let go of the discomfort?

Well, let's just talk about all my issues. Okay? Yeah, yeah, please. Uh, I am actually a, uh, recovering perfectionist.

Oh, gosh, how about you? But I got issues, right? I'm, I'm not perfect, but I'm getting better every day. Right.

And it's funny, I I would imagine, you know, again, your audience is very successful people, so there's a, there's probably a number of perfectionists in your career, right? Oh, absolutely. Yes. And, and I, there, there might be some people right now that are listening to this, like, oh, that's not me.

It's like, that's fine. But perfectionism most often gets misdiagnosed as procrastination. Mm-hmm. Um, because what's interesting is, is that when people hear perfectionism.

They assume that perfectionists have a perfectly organized desk. Their kitchen should be on the cover of il de decor, like everything's in its place, right? Yeah. But perfectionists, we're pile people, right?

Mm-hmm. Uh, because you'll go to a meeting and you'll come back from that meeting with a memo or a participant's guide or an agenda, and you come back to your desk and you don't have the perfect place to put that thing. And so you put it on the corner of your desk and you tell yourself, when I have the perfect place to put that. I'm gonna file it away, but for right now, I'll just put it right there.

Someone, I'm feeling a little called out right now, to be honest, Mitch. Well, looking around you. I'll tell you what, my camera panned over my corner. My corner pile is right there.

Right. And it's that thing of like, you come back to another from another meeting, pile goes higher, and then somebody, you hear, somebody's gonna come into your office or they're gonna visit your desk and you take that pile and you put it underneath your desk in a box or a bag. Oh yeah. Or something like that.

Right? We're pile people. And it's because we're waiting for the perfect place to file things. It's also the reason why most people think, they think they're procrastinators, but they're actually perfectionists is perfectionists tend to be really good at starting stuff, but finishing stuff is hard because it's not perfect yet.

And so what we need is we need a deadline. So it could very well be that that report or that paper or that, you know, meeting agenda is due at midnight on Tuesday and you're sending. That thing at 1159, because you need that deadline to finally push you and say, well, it's not perfect, but it's done send, right? Mm-hmm.

The reason why I bring that up is that I know for me what often starts to happen when I start to move into new places or when I start to think about trying something new or even going to the next level, right? Like as a leader. Going to the next level, whether that's performance, engagement, hitting your numbers, whatever. Oftentimes what that means is trying at least one thing that's new.

Mm. And so for me, my inner perfectionist starts chirping. When I start to think about trying new things to go, okay, what, what am I gonna look like? Right?

Mm-hmm. I won't be able to do that perfectly. And so what I have to do, I'm, I'm a big fan of mantras and, and you know, better questions. So, you know, in my case of I don't have to have all the answers, having that go-to question of, or phrase of, I don't know, but let's figure it out together.

That pairs well with that challenge with perfectionism or trying something new and, and my self-talk, self dialogue when it comes to that and my inner perfectionist starts chirping to say, oh, but it's not gonna be perfect. People might figure out that you're not perfect. All these things. I'll just say, Hey, I'm gonna focus on progress, not perfection.

Yep. And those kinds of phrases, just you say that often here at non clever. Yeah. It's progress over perfection.

It's just helps to quiet that, that inner perfectionist to the point of being able to say, okay, I can, I can step into this. And then we always say our target is excellence, not perfection. I love that. Yeah.

If I think about Not nice, clever, our podcast, we've done over 300 episodes at this point, and if amazing, we were waiting on. Being perfect or knowing everything about podcasting, we still wouldn't have started today a hundred percent. We still wouldn't have started, and maybe you have this experience offends me every time. Totally ticks me off.

But I'll have those episodes where I like, you know what? You know, my wife will say, how was the episode? I'll say, you know, I give it a b. Yeah, maybe plus like, it wasn't my favorite episode, but it was good, but it wasn't great.

And, and those are the ones when I bump into somebody or we get emails, they're like, oh my gosh, that's the episode that changed my life and I have to watch my face. 'cause my face is that one. You know? Right.

But, but everyone, the audience has their own experiences a hundred percent. And people that they relate to, so, yep. Yeah, you might not have learned much in that conversation necessarily, but you created space to have the conversation, which also impacted the audience and the person who needed to hear that message. So yes, I completely agree with how feeling like.

Progress over perfection is the way to go because Yep. Like I said, 300 episodes in, I don't feel like we have a handle on this yet. That's right. And it's one of those where it's like, I don't know about you, but as a pod podcaster too, like I have to keep that mantra of progress over perfection.

Yeah. Because if I ever feel like I've got it all together and I've figured it all out, that's probably the day I need to stop podcasting. Right. It's, there's always something to.

Improve on To learn. Yeah. To grow. Yeah, for sure.

I'm thinking a little bit about burnout, which is a huge Yeah. Problem that we hear from our audience members. And if you're trying something new all the time, if you're kind of putting yourself in uncomfortable situations, is that adding to your plate? Does that feel like more opportunity to get to the place of burnout?

Yeah, I, that's such a great question. It's, it's funny, on my podcast I got to interview a neuroscientist, uh, Ann Laura Lako, she's French. I had to work on that. Have you ever had guests where you're like, oh, gonna have to work on that name?

Yeah. Ann Laura Lako. Uh, I still say it. Sometimes I say it to my wife 'cause I'm so proud of being able to say it right.

But, uh, Ann Laura is really, she's got an amazing story in that she was an executive at Google and she thought she was burnt out. Burnt out to the point where she quit and that's where she got into neuroscience. She went back to school and really has had an incredible career since. But what's interesting is that as she started to understand the brain more and more, she realized that what she was experiencing was not burnout, but what she was experiencing was burnout's little cousin that nobody seems to talk about and that is being bored out.

And being bored out feels a lot like burnout, and it often is people that are very busy, but they get bored out because they're doing the same tasks over and over. Oftentimes, those tasks which. There, there are usually many, right? Mm-hmm.

Those tasks, they've figured out exactly what it takes to be successful and do the, they do those tasks over and over again, but the reason why they start to experience bored out, which does feel a lot like tired, you know, being burnout, which it, it, you know, it manifests itself as fatigue. Frustration, uh, lack of engagement, all of those things. The reason why people start to experience being bored out is the lack of new things. The lack of, as scientists kind of new say this, the lack of novelty.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so what I love about that is, that's why I say try some, give yourself permission to try something new intentionally, from time to time. It's like, I'm not saying this week do a cooking class and next week sign up for a class in diesel mechanics and then next week, you know, take a yoga class that you've never taken before. Yeah.

Like, it's not, it's not new all the time. And. Just completely different things, but give yourself seasons of introducing intentional novelty, and it is amazing what that will do, especially if there's any chance what you're feeling and what you're thinking is burnout might in fact be bored out. That novelty.

Just that intentional burst of novelty from time to time can be a game changer. Yeah. I love that from a brand strategist perspective. Yeah.

If you're trying something new, you should be sharing the journey with your audience. Yes. Right. So I want to see people on their Instagram story saying, I'm going to my first yoga class today, and I'm feeling a little intimidated.

Right. Because there's exactly right's, people in the audience who are saying, oh my gosh, I've been wanting to do that, but I'm so intimidated. I don't know. I don't know what to wear.

Yep. Or what to bring or like how to set up or what those words are that they're gonna say, they're gonna use a new language in there and I'm not gonna know what to do. And you have all of that nervous energy and you're not starting but seeing someone else. Yep.

Do it. Might encourage them or might. It's so true. Give them the confidence.

Yep. We, I love this, and this is such an important subject. I, I've been a coach and a speaker since 2002, but we've been training up other coaches and speakers since 2006, and one of the things I talk about, especially as a recovering perfectionist, and it's exactly, you know, how this can apply to building a brand, is oftentimes people aren't waiting to see if you're perfect. Because pretty much they know you're not.

Right. Right. But what's amazing, what I've found, and, and uh, I think it's so true to what you're saying is when you teach from the journey, you never run out of content. Mm-hmm.

When you teach from the destination You do. Yeah. But when you teach from the journey, what's also beautiful is, and, and I know you've seen this too, is that people are so much more willing to celebrate your wins when they also know about some of your setbacks from time to time. Yes.

That's where it can feel like a risk to be real. To to name when you're uncomfortable or afraid or you know, trying something new and feel like an idiot in the room. Yep. That can be so powerful.

One of my favorite examples of this is I do, one of my keynotes is on worry and overcoming worry because. I am a recovering perfectionist, but I'm also a recovering worrier, right? So I teach on it because I need to remember it every day. And I'll never forget, I think it was in Florida, and I was gonna be keynoting to this audience of like 500 people the next day.

And, uh, that night I got to my hotel, it was late, I was tired, but I, I threw up kind of a, a one of those posts from the journey. I said, here's irony. I'm keynoting on overcoming worry tomorrow morning at nine and tonight I'm tempted to worry. Right.

Well, what's funny is I posted that, thought it was hilarious. Went to bed, got got to the event. Venue the next morning, and a couple of the people that were attending the event saw me, came running over to me and they were like, are you okay? Are you okay?

And I'm like, what's happening? Why, why? What are, what are you concerned about? And they're like, we saw your post last night.

We were so concerned for you. And I was like. Why? And they were like, well, we were worried.

You were worried. And I said, oh, I'm sorry. I said, I was tempted to worry. And that's something I'll talk about in my keynote, that being tempted to worry is different than worrying itself.

I slept like a baby. And they're like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. Right? But I, that's such a powerful example of, I mean.

They literally were engaged to the point of worrying for me, which I thought was ironic and kind of funny that here I was. You, you entire thing worrying. Yes. Right.

Like, whoops, sorry, my bad. Right. But I mean, that's when you teach from the journey. Yeah.

You create a family. That's a beautiful thing and it gives your audience, speaking about giving people permission. It gives your audience permission to be more vulnerable with you. Right?

Yep. And that creates a better relationship than a hundred percent if they feel like they have to be perfect around you all the time. Right? Exactly.

If they know some of your flaws, yeah. They're like, oh, you know, like when you do that thing, I'm like, yes, I'm very familiar. I love it. Let's talk about how you.

Share about building through trial and error. Yeah. Which can be uncomfortable for a lot of people. A lot of our listeners are at the point where they're building teams.

Yeah. And they have that maybe worry that they need to have all the answers like we talked about. But trial and error is something that you have spoken about. How can leaders lean into trial and error?

If they're trying to build. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, it's, it's interesting, I don't know about you, but I kind of geek out on history and I, I love the number of stories where, you know, that first endeavor, whether it's a business idea, whether it's a, uh, you know, a product concept, whatever it might be. Oftentimes the best ones, the, the, the products that change the globe often were first identified as a mistake.

Mm-hmm. So part of it is to remember that, but I always say you wanna lead and you want to build like a scientist. And what I mean by that is, in fact, you know, we have a, a coach training and certification program. And our coaching model is called the Scientific method of Coaching because it's built on the scientific method.

Now, I'm the first one to say I was a solid C minus. Science students in high school, right? Like yeah, my, my science teacher would think it would be hilarious that I was leaning on the scientific method now as a major part of my career and leadership experience, but it's absolutely true. And what I love about.

The scientific method is, you know, when a scientist walks into the laboratory, they first say, what am I gonna try to prove or disprove? Right? They, they, they clarify the truth. They're gonna try to prove or disprove.

Then they put together a hypothesis, which, you know, Webster's dictionary defines a hypothesis as. Well-educated. Guess. Guess.

Yeah, A best guess. And I honestly think that, you know, in my humble opinion, that's what we should actually call plans, right? Right. Our plans are a best guess.

They're a best guess at what we think is gonna happen, right? And then what a scientist does is say, well, this is my best guess. Now I'm gonna experiment. And they're going to try that thing that they think is gonna work, right?

And then if it goes the way they thought. That's great, but if it doesn't go the way they thought, that's great because they're still learning. And the importance is, is understanding that loop and moving through it as fast as possible so you can continue to learn and grow, right? What I see is a lot of people get hooked in creating a perfect plan, not a hypothesis.

A perfect plan has all the answers, knows everything that's gonna happen, and, and it's gonna work perfectly. Which never happens, ever, right? Yeah. Like I work with, you know, millionaires and sometimes even billionaires, and I can tell you almost every plan.

Doesn't go to plan. Right? Right. Um, you make that, you make that best guess.

You take your first step. You check, you know, the, the other part, that last part of the scientific method is to evaluate and adjust. Yep. It's built into the scientific method.

It also has to be built into our leadership loops, our, you know, business strategies, all those things, because. Sometimes we're gonna hit it out of the park right off the bat. That's fantastic when those things happen, but it rarely happens. Right?

And what's, what's exciting I know about for me is it's offensive at first and beautiful, you know. Second is that most of the times our plans don't go the way, the exact way that we thought, but sometimes. Even when that plan doesn't go the way we thought, it helps us uncover something even better. Yes.

And so that's also where that perfectionism can get in because boy, it's so tempting to wait till you have the perfect plan. Right? And so you never take the step, you never start to experiment. So then you're never learning, you're never, never evaluating and adjusting.

You need all those data points to help you make the adjustments. Yep. So I always say that's to my leaders that I coach. I always say, Hey.

In your mind, put your lab coat on every day you walk into that office because you're a scientist today, my friend. And if you do that, you will learn and grow so much faster and have a lot more fun. Absolutely. Because you gave yourself permission to try something that day.

That's what scientists are doing. They're trying something. Exactly. And they're using and they're doing something right as as opposed to thinking about doing something.

And a lot of, ah, yes. A lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of leaders get stuck in that thinking about doing stuff. As opposed to doing stuff, those people don't tend to be the globe changers. Yep.

It's so funny because I actually have a program called the Content Lab. Nice. And it has like little flasks and like. Science.

That's awesome. I love it. Yeah, like as the branding books. Exactly.

Exactly. That's good. And the reason is people are so afraid of creating content because they're gonna be embarrassed because their family and friends are gonna make fun of them. But I created the content lab with this exact idea in mind, Mitch, that Hey, this is just a lab.

We're just gonna then try stuff, show up. We're gonna try stuff. We're gonna gather data, and we're gonna adjust and see what happens next. That's so good.

And that's literally the premise of the. Program because people are stuck in that perfectionist. Place. Yep.

And those people are the ones that are gonna get no views 'cause they're not showing up at all. And I'd rather you get exactly right. 300 views Yep. And be like, how can I get 400 tomorrow?

Right. Exactly. It's, it's funny, I know for me, uh, my grandma Jessie, grandma Matthews. When I would start to get into that loop of what are people gonna think, grandma Jesse would always say, boy, people don't think about you near as much as you think they do.

Yeah. And that's, you know, so often I would, I would, I would labor just, uh, I would just iterate, iterate, iterate, and not hit, publish on something. 'cause I was worried about what people think. And then Grandma Jesse's wisdom would come in and go, wait, you know, the people that need to see it will see it.

The people that don't like it. That's fine. They'll disengage. But boy, I, I'm betting this will probably attract, or at least encourage at least one person.

So publish, let's go and let's see what happens. Let's go. So I love that. Exactly.

That is so great. That's a lab, because that is the lab that is the right attitude. I love that, that that's, that's how you would equip people. That's perfect.

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about criticism. Oh, boy. Yeah.

Because as a, yeah, because as a leader, especially a leader who's willing to try things Yep. Understands that you don't know all the answers all the time. Do you get pushback or criticism at points? Is there a specific example of a time when you've dealt with that that you can help our audience through?

Absolutely. Well, you know, and it's funny 'cause it's one of those I have, I have my own organization, but like you are a content creator, right? You have a podcast. So what's beautiful about doing things like this, and I'm guessing a lot of your people put out content in different ways, whether it's for their own business or whether it's with their team or whatever, that whenever you put out content.

As an example, there is a very good chance it's gonna click and register with certain people and it's gonna tick off or offend or be misunderstood by a group of people, right? Yep. And, um, I always say in, in many ways, when you're putting out content, let it attract the right people and repel the wrong people. Be okay with that.

Like, you know, it's funny because, you know, our, uh, my other podcast is called Dream Think Do, and that sounds almost whimsical. You know, like some people are instantly offended with just the name because it has dream in it. Right? Uh, and there are people that it just instantly like, oh, that's all rainbows, butterflies, and Little Ponies.

Like, how cute is that? You're adorable. That's a cute little podcast, right? And I get it.

I, I can, I can say in my heart of hearts, I can say, Hey, I don't think we're for you. And that's okay. Yeah. And what's what's amazing is that's so freeing, right?

Yes. Now, I will say that sometimes criticism comes from people that might be a little bit more like people that are in our audience, right? And so a couple things happen. One is I have to give myself permission to feel all the feels.

Mm-hmm. Right. Like there was a part of me, especially the perfectionist part of me that says, I should be impervious. Those things should never hurt me.

Yeah. But when they did, then it got in even deeper because not only was I hurt by something somebody said, but I was hurt by being hurt. Yes. And that's like a double whammy, right?

Which sucks. And that, that wears you out even faster. And so, you know, sometimes when criticism comes in and, you know, when you have a big podcast, like your podcast, uh, you know what dreams think do, there's gonna be chances that somebody's gonna come, especially in the world that we live in, where, you know, we've wept and weaponized feedback, right? Um, and sometimes it's digitized and sometimes that's also, you know.

Acts that no one can control and all that stuff. That's a, that's a whole other thing. But when criticism comes in, um, oftentimes I'll say, Hey, is that somebody that I care about? Is that somebody I know?

Is that even somebody that's remotely close to our audience? 'cause I will say, if somebody's just immediately a jerk, I'll say, Hey, I got no time for that. I can, I can just wipe that off. It might get in a little bit, but I'm like, okay, I let one person down, but I don't know who they are.

They don't know my mom's name, so I don't really care. Right. Like they don't know my kids. They don't know my wife.

Yeah. I don't really care. Right. But if it is someone that's a little bit closer, or maybe it's someone that is truly in our audience, in our family, you know, like somebody that's engaged with our content, but they let me know.

I said something they didn't agree with. What I try to do, you know, after feeling, give myself five minutes to feel all the feels, but then say, okay, is there any truth in what they're saying? And in some cases it might only be 2% truth, but it's like, all right, is there any truth in what they're saying? And for me, I lean in, I, I, I ask that question sometimes.

I pray about that question, like, is there any truth I need to be paying attention to? Is there anything I need to own? Because, hey, I'm far from perfect and I get really excited about topics. So sometimes I'll say stuff and I've, I'll forget, you know, like, oh, that might be offensive, you know?

Um, and so do I need to own anything? And then also, do I need to engage with this person? My wife actually uses a phrase, she works in full-time ministry and she uses a phrase that I absolutely love. And that is I given myself permission to not have an opinion about that.

Hmm. That's a good one. Because I don't know about you, but I think right now we all feel like we need to have an opinion on everything. Yeah.

Because everybody seems to, yeah. So like when something happens, whether it's something in social media, whether it's a world event, whatever, we instantly feel like I need to have an opinion about that. Yep. And sometimes you do, sometimes you don't.

And so my wife, what's beautiful about that is she gives herself 24 hours. To say, Hey, in this, like right now, I don't need to have an opinion about that. Yeah. I'm giving myself permission and space to not have an opinion about that.

And so sometimes when complaints come in, it's like, you know what? Uh, that, that can totally be your opinion, but I, I'm giving myself permission and not have an opinion on that. This whole episode and that that is a powerful, powerful thing. Yeah.

This whole episode's about permission and I love it. It is so good. Yeah. I love it.

Okay, A couple things before we wrap up, before we get to our not nice advice segment. Yes. Uh, I want you to tell our audience about your coaching program. How could they work with you?

Yeah. What does that look like? I love it. So, uh, you know, we've been training up coaches and speakers since 2006.

I went through a coach training program, big name, uh, coach training program, kind of thought they would teach me how to do the business. They taught me how to coach. Like confidently. Um, but there was no business training.

So I floundered and then I started do some some things, right? Something we call the six figure sequence and started to actually figure out the business side of it. People started to take notice of that and they started to seek me out, which is great. And so we've been able to help thousands of coaches and speakers, but in the last few years we've been doing something that I'm wildly excited about and it's, it's a niche.

It's a very small niche and I know sometimes, sometimes people get nervous when you find a very small niche, but I've found a niche that we just thrive with. We call it a micro niche. What's up? Niches, right.

But like I love, I love this niche and that is, it's something we call the authority bridge, and it is for leaders, um, people that are successful in their careers and they want to add coaching or speaking to what they're currently doing. Doesn't necessarily mean they were, they're gonna leave what they're doing. They might just add it to, and it could just be a side thing. And for some folks, our, they have so much success and they love it so much than they do it full-time.

But we've, we've put together, it's a three phase. Process. It's very intentional, very doable. Um, it kind of speaks to what Anne Lore talks about as like introducing some novelty, but at a reasonable place.

So the three phases of it are what we call, uh, first is covered authority, and that's where you start to develop your messaging. Put out content, but you don't actually need to announce you're a coach or a speaker or you know, some entrepreneur, those types of things. You just put, start putting out content. You start experimenting with content to see what resonates, what do you like, talking about all those things.

And then over that time, you're building your business when nobody knows it. And then phase two is what we call emerging authority. And that's when you add. Coaching, speaking or consulting to what you're currently doing, and you do it in a way that doesn't blow up your life, but in a way that enhances your credibility and whatever track, whatever role that you're doing, you can do it in a way that actually enhances your credibility, your standing.

Um, all of that, it's, it's exciting to see it when it happens. And then the third phase, and not everybody has to move into this third phase, but the third phase is what we call independent authority. And that's when somebody decides, you know what, I'm gonna go for this full time. Some of our folks with emerging authority, uh, you know, they generate an extra.

50 to a hundred thousand or more a year, and they're gonna probably do that for the rest of their lives. They're happy with that. That's great. Yeah.

Um, some, it's a lot more than that, uh, those types of things. So that, that kind of thing, especially for those people that really are good at what they do. And they don't necessarily wanna blow up their life, but they do. They wanna have more impact or they want to have more income, um, or they wanna leave a legacy that's different than just their career track.

And so that's, it's huge. And it's not for everybody, but we did, we did put some training together because for a lot of those folks, it starts with going, well, that would be great, but uh, how do I find time for that? Like, you know, I could add something new, but right now it's kinda like you were talking about like, I am barely holding on right now. You know, I've got kids and I've got a full career and all those things.

So we did actually put a special training together, um, and it's called Finding Time for your next chapter. And we actually, it's a $97 training, but people can go to mitch matthews.com/time, um, and we'll drop it in the show notes and then just enter the coupon code. Yeah, you can enter the coupon code.

Clever. Got, and so your folks will get it for free. Oh, that's amazing. Thank you so much.

We'll definitely drop that in the show Absolutely. For everyone. Definitely check it out. I'm sure there's a lot of people in the clever crew who would benefit from something like that because they're really successful at the things that they're doing, and they are looking to make more impact and maybe a little bit more income too.

Why not? Right? So the question, not nice advice. Yes, it says, I know I need to network to grow my business, but I'd rather eat glass than go to another awkward event.

Oh, yes. Is there a way to connect without draining my social battery at networking events? Oh, man. I love this question.

They, do you have their name, their first name? No name on this one. Okay. All right.

Well, whomever it is. All right. Yeah. We've talked about me being a recovering perfectionist where, you know, uh, all that, but I'm also an introvert.

I know you guys are passionate about talking about this too, but I am an introvert who's learned to do extroverted things, right. Being a speaker, I always say it's God's great sense of humor that I am an introvert and my day job involves going to rooms of 500 strangers. Right? Like that's hilarious.

Yes. So networking events, I'm the same way. Like I would much rather sit in my office and create in, in my quiet little office than go to a networking event, chewing glass. I get it right.

Um, but one of my mentors in the entrepreneurial world, he gave me some of the best advice because even as introverts, like I know I, I like humans, I really do, but I gotta take care of my inner introvert. And walking into a room of strangers is not what I naturally want to do. And my mentor very wisely said, I know you're an introvert. I know you like people, but you're an introvert and this kind of thing wears you out.

He said, I, I'm gonna challenge you. And I said, okay, what's that? And we were actually getting ready to move into a room of, I think probably 200 people I did not know. And he goes, Hey, I'm gonna encourage you, focus on being interested.

Not interesting. Yes. And I gotta admit, I was so amped about walking to the room of 200 strangers. I'm like, what the F does that mean?

And he's like, Hey, so right now. Your default is to walk into that room and be interesting to the people that you meet. And he said that for you is exhausting. He said there are some people who love that, whether they're extroverted or just narcissists, they love to talk about themselves.

They love to be the most interesting person in the room. But generally, when you meet someone and all they do is talk about themselves, all you wanna do is get outta that conversation. And he's like, as an introvert. If you feel like that's the standard, all you wanna do is get out of that because you don't want to talk about yourself.

He is like, you, like to put the, the spotlight on anybody else that you're talking with. He's like, embrace that. Don't be interesting. Be interested.

Get curious. Ask people questions and don't ask them the normal questions of, so what do you do? Where are you from? Ask them questions like, Hey, what are you working on that's interesting.

You right now, what's something you're excited about? What's something you're looking forward to? He's like, get curious. He said, when you start to get interested, you will authentically be the most interesting person in the room.

And I can tell you for me, I, you know, there are days where it still feels like, you know, when I'm at the door, like ready to grab that handle and go into the room, I'm thinking of chewing glass, right? But once I walk into that room and I embrace that and I get curious, it is amazing how much energy, more energy I have, and how much more energy I walk away with. Having been interested because again, it gets the spotlight off of me, off you and on somebody else. Yeah.

Um, often what I will do is I'll also meet someone within that time that needs to meet somebody else in that room. So I love, I realize, I love puzzles, I love games, so I'm like, you know what? I love to connect the dots too. So if I find somebody that needs to meet somebody else in the room, that also energizes me and things like that.

And so sometimes what I will do is I will actually. I'll have two goals. One, be interested, not interesting, and then my second goal is connect at least two people. There you go.

And what what's beautiful about that is, I don't know about you, but as an introvert, all I want to do, there's a part of my heart that always just wants to get outta the room. So I need to set parameters to say all, what am I gonna try to accomplish? Right? Yes.

And I used to try to set a goal of find at least one person that might be a client or find at least one person that might be, you know, a business partner and things like that, those. Didn't tend to work all that well. 'cause you never know, like some of those people that you just meet, become friends for life and clients for life, and other people that you think are gonna be that guy or that gal don't ever email you back. Right?

Yeah. So like that was harder as an end goal. So I turned it into a game and said, all right. I'm gonna at least connect two people in the room.

So I started to get interested, I started to figure out what people were working on, and then once I could connect two people, that was my permission to skate. And what's beautiful is if you are the connector in the room, people wanna know you. And so, you know, I walked out of a room being interesting and I walked out of the room being a connector. And generally if I do that, people return my emails and my business grows and I walk away with some energy too.

What? Great advice. Thank you so much, Mitch. We appreciate you being on today.

I'm honored. I love what you guys are doing, and thank you. It's, it's great to get to have the conversation. So thanks so much.

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