11. Gaming for Good - Charity Livestreams (Matt Pfaltzgraf)

Speaker A: Welcome to the Next Gen marketing podcast where we feature top execs and influencers blazing new trails in consumer engagement, content strategy, digital media and brand design. And now, here's your host, Andre Dejar.

Speaker B: Hi everyone. I wanted to bring on a really unique guest of podcast this week. Matt Faltzgraf is the founder and CEO of Soft Giving, a payment technology platform that connects charities with gaming and livestream audiences. Through Soft Giving, Matt's company has been able to raise up to $600,000 for charities in a single month. Soft Giving also works with brands like G Fuel, T Mobile and others looking to connect authentically with the cares and concerns of Gen Z and Millennial audiences. In this episode, Matt discusses how brands can leverage entertainment within gaming and streaming platforms to create groundbreaking cause campaigns that authentically connect with these audiences. And he also talks a bit about his background, going from a recipient himself of the Boys and Girls Clubs of America and Salvation army to becoming one of the most innovative CEOs in the space. Matt, we are thrilled to have you on this week's episode. I'd love it if you could tell us a bit more about Soft Giving.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So with softgiving, we create, uh, online live stream marketing campaigns with large, uh, charities, small charities, and uh, we've also started incorporating brands into our activations as well. Uh, the way we got into it was really just trying to solve our own problem as a company and that was how do you reach younger donors and do so effectively and just younger customers in general. And so the first couple years of Soft Giving was around this product called Change that allows somebody to donate their roundabout change from their everyday purchases to a, uh, charity. And we had signed up 50 or so charities for this product and we were very good at signing up charities, but they were unable to market it effectively to the demographic that we were targeting, which is those 18 to 34 year olds. And so like any startup like you try and pivot and find like a solution to your problems. And, and so what we started doing was started to take on more of the marketing responsibility ourselves. And the way we really kind of stumbled into the live stream space and Twitch and YouTube live and Facebook gaming was uh, one day or one week we did a, uh, friends and family campaign where I had asked all my employees to reach out to their immediate, uh, network to sign people up to donate their change. And during that time one of my employees happened to be a small Twitter herself. And I went on a hike and didn't have cell phone connection. And then I came back from the hike. And all of a sudden we had all these signups and uh, I thought, I thought there was a glitch our platform and the app wasn't working. Um, but what had happened was she streamed it on Twitch and she got uh, over half of our audience to sign up to donate their change. And the uh, the conversion was well over 50%. Uh, and I remember at that moment I thought, wow, that is incredibly interesting because we had tried Facebook, we had tried Instagram influencers. None of that had worked. And there was something unique about this uh, this live stream, uh, long form content that really made a huge difference. And so from that point, uh, forward we started focusing on that space and building a recurring growing, uh, live stream marketing platform that has just grown tremendously over the last year, uh, and a half, two years.

Speaker B: And then tell me a little bit about how users find the opportunities. Like, is the, is the charitable giving housed directly on their channels? Is it housed within a certain like, separate space? Like tell us a little bit about how it actually works.

Speaker A: Sure. So what we do is we go out and find uh, streamers and these are people that are creating long form live content, uh, again, primary on Twitch, uh, playing games, interacting with their audience, doing all kinds of different things. We go out and find people that we think have a great connection with their audience and then uh, we hire them, um, and contract with them to then do these campaigns on behalf of our charitable partners and brand partners. And then what we do is our platform sits, is overlays like on their live stream, uh, and also in like panels below where people can click to take actions. And then the whole back end, uh, donation page and other forms are built and customized by Soft Giving. And so we handle the, you know, the approach from a360 perspective from beginning to end. And um, do so all on these streamers, uh, channels themselves that they've built and curated, uh, over years of streaming, uh, and building their audiences.

Speaker B: And then how, like, what are like the average number of hours for like some of the charity streams that you guys have produced?

Speaker A: So we generally stick to a format of five hours for a charity stream. Some, um, of them can go longer. We've had 24 hour uh, streams before. I think our longest was somebody at a 30 hour uh, straight, uh, charity stream where they stayed awake the entire time and raised $200,000.

Speaker B: Wow, that's amazing.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's cool to see what people decide to do. But our main uh, length is five hours that we uh, activate for.

Speaker B: Can you talk a little bit about how the streamers kind of gamify the incentives. There's just some really creative examples that the Storymob team sent over to me. But I'd love it if you could talk a little bit about the production itself and kind of how the streamers get really creative with raising the funds for the charities.

Speaker A: Uh, sure. And so one thing that um, we do that is very different than other, uh, entities in the space is when we bring these uh, events forward, the audience, because they're younger, they don't have a relationship with the charity or they don't know much about the charity. And so the first thing is we kind of prime them a little bit about who the charity is. But the biggest thing is you make it fun for them to participate and engage. And so what we do is, uh, we work with the streamer with these just activation tools. And so some of it will be like milestones where a streamer will say, hey, if once we raise a thousand dollars, like I'll eat a jar of pickles.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Or I'll play bean Boozled or um, you know, I'll write the top donors, you know, name on my forehead. Uh, that's one of our ways of activating. Uh, another way is our giveaway tool where, uh, we kick off a giveaway where people that donate within a 10 minute time frame have a chance to win a really cool prize. So it can be a PlayStation 5, uh, Nvidia graphics card. Um, we've given away, uh, Pokemon shinies that people uh, really go crazy for. What that does is it gets those people that are on the fringe of thinking about whether they want to donate or not. It gets them to take action because it creates that FOMO where if they donate within that time frame, they have a chance to win something really cool and interesting. Uh, the other thing that we use right now that we have recently launched, um, and will be coming up be pretty big is a tool called Frenzy, um, which it will be on a big campaign that we are doing next week. Um, but what Frenzy does is it allows the audience to participate in the stream by uh, spamming hashtags and sharing tweets on Twitter, which then allows a progress bar to go up. Uh, and upon a number of uh, tweets being sent out, it upgrades the prize of which the audience then has a chance to win. And uh, through that, and just kind of some of our early pilots, we've seen 60% of the audience go on Twitter to uh, uh, tweet about uh, a company or a charity to uh, Drive that activation. So that's something that's been pretty cool to see.

Speaker B: Can you tell us a little bit about. And I should probably preface that I have some knowledge, based on notes that were given to me, of just the dollar volume that you're able to raise for some of these cherries. It's pretty impressive.

Speaker A: Yes. Um, with our campaigns. We've, um, I think our largest campaign, uh, to date raised $600,000 in like 14 hours.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: And it was from almost 20,000 donors.

Speaker B: And then what was that for? What organization was that for?

Speaker A: That was for Games for Love, which is a charity. It's a small charity based out of Seattle, uh, Washington, that provides distraction therapy for children, uh, in hospitals where they can get a Nintendo switch or a PlayStation and while they're hospitalized, have a chance to have fun and still connect with their friends in the outside world and not think about, um, being hospitalized with a serious condition. Um, with Games for Love, we've been able to raise them so much money that they've actually started creating new services that they provide. And so now, um, not only do they do distraction therapy, but now they're helping families pay off their hospital bills as well, which is what they weren't able to do, uh, before they, uh, partnered with us.

Speaker B: I was going to say with a lot of these organizations, I mean, I would imagine you're becoming a really critical part of their development and fundraising mix. I mean, we're definitely living through, you know, sort of the old way that charities used to raise money and now this new kind of micro financing way. Can you tell us a little bit about, like, how the organizations have adopted the innovation?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So the way it used to work with livestream fundraising is, uh, the charities were responsible for 100% of the activation themselves. And so they would go in and purchase the software and then they would go and sit on these hundreds of streams and somebody at the charity would reach out to these streamers through discord or email or Twitter or any way that they could reach out to them. And it was this long, arduous process because, uh, streamers speak a different language. Like it truly is like its own world as far as how they communicate with each other. And so charities really weren't equipped to do that. And so what we, uh, did is we created a service to do that for them where we employ people that speak streamer and um, and then we would go out and make the relationships and the connections and bring them forward. And so what that's led is these, uh, name brand charities like, um, American Cancer Society, Boys and Girls Club, uh, care, American Cancer Society, have essentially moved their entire activation to us, and we handle all of it for them so that they can have more time and resources to focus on the core of their mission and the services that they provide. And, um, that's really worked well for the large charities, but especially the small charities too, that, uh, just can't compete on the marketing dollars.

Speaker B: Well, I think that's actually really interesting is that the platform that you offer is so scalable, it sounds like anyone can sort of get set up with. It just depends on the selection of the streamer. If the streamer's passionate, I would imagine, about the cause is that tell us a little bit about how the streamers get matched to the causes.

Speaker A: So when we reach out to our streamer partners, we, uh, generally present them with, uh, a number of different options. We ask them what cause they care about, and then when they say that, we present them a, uh, charity and explain to them what the charity does and how it impacts, uh, the different communities around the world and try to find that really good fit so that it's all relatable. And everybody is, um, you know, super energetic and excited to take a part in the charity stream. Um, and then we then provide videos and assets and talking points and just train them up on how to talk effectively with their communities. One of the things that, um, was being missed before we came on board into this space was streamers aren't doing charity streams, like, every week. Like, they're. It's not like a. It's not like their traditional content creation. It's. It's very different. And so a lot of the streamers that we work with weren't doing. Had never either done a charity stream or had not been doing them regularly, but because we could come in and help them understand, like, how simple it can be and the things to truly focus on that we now have people that weren't raising anything before raising hundreds of thousands of dollars. Um, and that's been exciting to see.

Speaker B: Why do you think the audience is so passionate and interested in giving back?

Speaker A: So I think it has a lot to do with Millennials and Gen Z and the connection of these communities, uh, to the world around them. Um, the. I mean, I'm part of the Facebook generation. Like, I was in college when Facebook came out, and so it enabled us to start connecting with friends that we were in high school with, like, instantly. And now with the platforms that have evolved, like, out of all that, um, the world's a Lot smaller. And they see how their actions impact, uh, communities all around the world. And so there's a much greater ownership into how everybody's actions impact others. And they're more mindful of it and they want to be more part of the solution, uh, that's out there. And that's what I think really matters with like what we do is these online communities that we activate. It's not linked geographically to a small area. It's not like they're all in the same town. They're from all over the world together. And together they rally around each other to support these causes. And um, it's just different than any other generation because they just have access and can see the world differently.

Speaker B: Yeah. To kind of piggyback on that, I think, um, they've definitely grown up with a lot more socio politically. I think they've seen a lot more than previous generations. And um, we had some, some other guests on the show that, you know, focused on Gen Z and you know, even sort of the younger millennial audiences that they think it should be a requirement that brands give back. So, you know, I know we always think about charitable giving as sort of a separate tool, as you're really more of a fundraising tool. But from a marketing standpoint with brands, it's almost become an operational requirement to target this generation. I was going to ask you a little bit more on the brand side too. Do brand, um, typically connect with you via their foundations or how do brands work with you?

Speaker A: Sure. So brands, uh, are absolutely trying to reach this demographic and showcase their philanthropy. Um, but they do it in kind of like a messy way. Like right now that we're trying to help kind of show them the right path. Um, there was a brand that donated, uh, a million dollars to a charity, um, earlier this year and then spent $6 million on a commercial highlighting the fact that they had, ah, donated a million dollars to charity. And that's like the way that you don't want to do it. So when we work with brands and they reach out to us, what we do is we don't sell them on like, well, you know, this is, you know, altruism that you're taking place in, you know, where you can just feel good about it. We show them how it's good for business, um, because it's important that uh, when we interact with the brands, it's not talking about their foundation dollars. What we want to do is we want to unlock their marketing dollars towards philanthropy. We want to make it so that they're investing dollars towards charitable, uh, causes that, um, provide a return for them and encourage them to do more of it. Because there's way more brands have way more money to spend on marketing than they do through their foundation. And so we will connect them with, uh, the communities, we'll connect them with the cause, and we'll gamify the experience so that the brand is advancing their interest of getting their brand out there or selling their products or services. And then it's uh, they're then, uh, contributing more to various different causes and the customers that they really want to reach are seeing them do that in real time. And, uh, those communities then celebrate it and, uh, then engage more in a real positive way.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know, just for my audience, um, as far as, uh, some statistics goes, three out of four millennials regularly donate to charities. And Gen Z, 66% of Gen Z, which, um, actually has risen since the pandemic. And I think just again, speaking to, with the rise of TikTok, social activism and social activism in general, this is definitely a generation that cares, and that care is only growing. They're in some ways taking matters into their own hands to create a better world.

Speaker A: Yeah. And they just published the, uh, 2020, uh, uh, charitable, uh, donation reports. And it showed that, um, overall there were more contributions than ever to charitable organizations last year. Um, but the amount of contributions from corporations actually fell 6%. And so, uh, you have the community and individuals donating more than ever, but the corporations have pulled back a little bit. And, um, that's just. It's kind of. We don't want it to go that way. We want to go the other way. Um, but again, I think that just kind of comes through, like, showing reason. And, um, we. One of the big things before I started or when I started soft giving, I was on a couple charity boards. And you had individuals donating to charities, and then you had businesses donating to charities, but they were doing it through two different verticals. What we're trying to do is to collapse those verticals together so customers and brands are in lockstep with the causes that they're supporting together and promoting more of that community feel. And then both sides are benefiting, um, significantly.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think the timing is perfect because we're seeing a lot of shift from the power and institutions to power in the people. I mean, even with corporate decision making now and who is, uh, making up the boards, I mean, you're seeing a lot more of a kind of mass influence on just what they're seeing in terms of Diversity and gender equality and things like that. So, um, tell me a little bit about how you guys got started. I mean you were saying you were on a few boards, but tell me a bit more about um, sort of how you got involved in charitable giving.

Speaker A: Yeah, so growing up, um, I was died by a single mother who worked as a secretary and in the evenings would go to a local community college to get her associate's degree, all while raising my brother and I. And uh, during that time, um, after my parents got divorced, my dad moved out of state. Child support payments, um, were infrequent. We'd have to use the state to track him down essentially to get him to pay child support. And so it wasn't a reliable source of income for the family. And so in order for my mom to be able to work full time and support us, we, my brother and I had to go somewhere. And so she took us to the Girls Club, uh, in our hometown and would drop us off in the morning and then the Boys and Girls Club would take us to school, uh, pick us up from school. Um, that's where we would hang out with our friends, do our homework, um, just a safe, like affordable place for childcare. And that really made all the difference in the world. While we were trying to get back on our feet, um, during that same time when we weren't in the Boys and Girls Club, uh, we relied on other charities for assistance. And so, um, our bikes were always, uh, purchased from the Salvation Army. Um, we never got the latest and greatest of anything. And so it was always used, you know, in hand me downs and secondhand, um, a lot of secondhand clothes. My mom was a rabid like couponer. And so that uh, that helped a lot. But uh, I mean that continued through high school where uh, my tie for my first job interview was purchased uh, from Goodwill. And uh, it was this uh, brown, you know, ugly tie that I wanted to tie myself. And I uh, wore it to my job interview with um, for an internship with the, the governor of Iowa. And um, and apparently it was nice enough that I got it, I got the internship. But um, but we didn't have like the, the greatest of anything. Like we all, my brother being young, obviously tasseling corn when I was 13 and washing dishes when I was 14. Um, and so it's just things that we had to do. And as we got older, um, the charitable services we received, um, it didn't just allow us to have like a life, but a good life. It didn't feel like we were we didn't feel poor. And I think that just speaks to the assistance that they provide. And I got older, I got more involved in the community and volunteered, uh, and was eventually asked to uh, serve on a couple local uh, uh, nonprofit boards. One uh, of them was my school foundation board of directors. And uh, there I really saw the uh, disconnect um, between uh, how. How charities were, you know, providing services and raising money and just how antiquated it was. And um, they were, they were asking people collect checks from people for donations. In my mid-20s and I'm like, I haven't seen my checkbook in years. Um, they um, they looked at uh, you know, just trying to get them to get a website back then was like m. A struggle. And um, and so when I saw that, um, you know, it always kind of stuck with me. And then I had uh, worked. I had a career in payments, uh, technology. And I had been there for a few years. I was the director of a payment association and worked on rules, regulations and technology around ACH payments. And uh, after a while I, uh, I was able to accomplish a few things, but I didn't really feel fulfilled. And um, five years ago, uh, the anniversary was uh, June 15th. Uh, um, 2016 was when I quit my job to start a company around, um, building innovative fundraising technology for charities. And so how do you get, how do you get the payment technology that all these Fortune 500 companies have and utilize to be able to bring in new customers and make more revenue? How do you get those in the hands of. So that they aren't always, um, so far behind and are able to catch up? Because when you want to activate younger people, whoever, it's the technology and the means of what you do with that.

Speaker B: Mm, mhm. Absolutely. You know, um, I actually. Are you still there, Matt? Okay, I think we should pause for a second. Now we can. Can you hear me? It's kind of going in and out, man.

Speaker A: There you go.

Speaker B: No, no, you're good now. Yeah, perfect. Okay, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna chime in. You know, it's interesting, Matt. I actually sit on a few boards as well and I've noticed exactly what you're talking about as far as the antiquation of some of the platforms. And this is why, you know, when I was pitched to have you on the show, I was passionate about it because, you know, digital is the way to raise quite a lot of money and it's win, win. And that the person who's donating doesn't necessarily have to donate a fortune. But, you know, it can quickly add up. Um, and it's just such a perfect marriage with where the passions of these newer generations are lying. I sit on the board for Meals on Wheels, and what got me to be on that board was I saw a video, and similar to you, it was the most fundamental human needs. It was food and companionship. Because most of the time these senior citizens, their Meals on Wheels delivery person is the only person that they see in a day. You know, and it's just, it's really great that you figured out a solution to a problem that. I mean, a lot of these organizations are just struggling to stay afloat because corporate donations have dried up. You know, oftentimes the organizations that get the money are the advocacy organizations that do a great job of marketing, but they don't always, you know, benefit the direct relief organizations who are actually providing the services.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And with charitable fundraising, you're put under a different microscope than, um, like a for profit company. And so in charitable fundraising, it's considered a, uh, best practice that for every dollar you spend on fundraising that you raise $5.

Speaker B: That's a really good point. Yeah.

Speaker A: And I think about like me as a business, like, if I was expected, you know, to return like $5 in profit for every dollar of expenses I spent, like, I would, you know, I would go out of business pretty soon.

Speaker B: Yeah, it would be. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: But that's, that's the way they approach, um, that's the way fundraising is approached. It's um, the ability to innovate and to do research and development and experiment. It's really frowned upon because if you fail, then you're just like, well, that's, you know, a hundred meals that you could have provided, um, that now you can't. And so it's an unrealistic, uh, scrutiny that uh, that is applied to charities that isn't applied to, you know, basically reality. And so we, um, we really try to focus, um, and that's been something that we've had to work around. And again, it's an important reason why you bring in brands, bring in like, get creative with how you activate and find like new ways of bringing in new sources of donations and income that uh, allows you to, to address some of those concerns while also push ahead forward. Because if you're not, uh, if you're not innovating, you're in trouble. And so many charities that relied on all these in person events are these old methods of raising funds in the past. Um, I mean, you have those that have you know, the little change box like at the checkout counter, like nobody cares change anymore. So you know, what do you do, um, when uh, these in person events occur again, you can't hold them anymore. And in the past like they get rained out. Like it's even before the pandemic there were reasons for why these things could fail. There is no real good plan B. And so through our channel and the way that we try to approach it, it's just like how do you diversify, how do you strengthen your different channels so that you're not so dependent on like one old way of doing it and you can be prepared for um, just consistent growth for the future. Because the, the channel of which we activate through like it's only going to get bigger for a long time to come. Like it truly is the future of communication in these communities. And so that's been a huge part of it. It's just like trying to talk uh, to the right person and give them that opportunity to succeed. And that's, that's what we just had to get right.

Speaker B: I mean I think it's amazing and I think I would imagine. Did you guys see growth, um, in usage of the platform during the pandemic? I know you said it sort of on the consumer side, but how about on the brand side and the charitable side? Were you able to see more activity?

Speaker A: Yeah, there were definitely a lot more charities that were trying to figure out like, okay, we have all these needs but we don't have our regular uh, revenue stream. And so that's what really uh, caused a lot of them to get creative and start looking outside of their traditional models where they weren't just thinking, we're going to raise X amount through direct mail, X amount through our galas, X amount through, um, you know, in person events. They were just like where, where are some new streams that we could potentially tap into. And so we just started getting kind of random emails from different, uh, name brands and small charities, um, all of a sudden being much more open to exploring different ways that they can generate uh, donations. And um, that helped uh, that quite a bit. And um, and then it's turned into something that they can do like outside the pandemic too. It's just an ongoing thing.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Which activation are you the most proud of so far?

Speaker A: Um, so this is ah, kind of a weird one, but it's been my favorite. Um, so we partner with this streamer and she goes by the name of Granny. And uh, Granny is somebody that a traditional charity or a brand would typically not look to partner with, like, right. Right at the top. Um, and that's because Granny. Granny, uh, uh, dresses up like, like, um, her. Her dead grandmother and speaks like, uh, Mrs. Doubtfire. And she's lovely. She's incredible. Has, like, a super positive audience. Um, super positive messages. Is always, um, talking people up and trying to promote a lot of positivity. And her audience has grown and grown and grown, but it's not like, again, like somebody dressing up in a gray powder wig and glasses and live it in a. She says she lives in a hobbit hole. M. It's not somebody, like a brand goes like, oh, I want them to our charity, you know, to go like, oh, I think they would be a great face for our activation. But Granny has been able to raise, uh, the last time she. She went for us, she raised $40,000.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: Um, from less than a thousand people in five hours. And nobody in a million years would have thought to look at somebody like that and say, like, you know what? This person would be great for a sponsorship. Um, but, um, we saw her and we loved everything about her and her community, and so we worked with her. And now, um, she's raised, um, I think probably $70,000 total and will probably cross $100,000 by the end of this month. And, um, it's been great. I mean, it's truly been, um, a really fun one. And we've had others that have raised way more, but, uh, from what she's been able to do from her audience, it's really been incredible to see.

Speaker B: Yeah, she looks like she'd be a hoot for sure. I'm definitely gonna have to go check out Granny's streams after this. Um, but, you know, I think you bring up an interesting point, too. Um, you know, maybe unintentionally, that Gen Z wants things that are different and that are quirky. You know, millennials. It doesn't have to be so safe. And I know that I work with several brands, and sometimes they're able to do that, and sometimes they're not. Of course brands have to be safe in some ways, but I definitely think this is a generation that wants brands to think outside of the box and maybe take risks and just have a sense of humor or at very least, a personality that's unique.

Speaker A: Absolutely. I mean, you have, um. There are tons of brands spending money in the live stream space, and they spend millions of dollars for these cookie cutter ads, and they might have somebody that looks like a gamer on them, but then they're all Giving the same pitch. And it's just people can see right through it. And when people run like these generic ads and these pre rolls and mid rolls, this audience, they rebel against it. Like they, it's a very heavy ad blocking community. Like they don't want to be pitched at. Like, that doesn't interest them. It's not going to get them to be activated. If anything, it's going to irritate them because it keeps them from enjoying the content that they've sought, uh, to find. And it's the complete opposite of what you want and what we've done. And with the charities and brands that we work with, a big thing that we talk about is like, there are thousands and thousands of these communities of streamers and audiences within them. And people have picked very, uh, carefully that community that they want to associate with because it has just a unique feel to them, speaks directly to them. And so it might be, and there's uh, thousands of them all playing like the same games and all that. But it's uh, the personality of that streamer that really matters in that community feel. And so when we do our activations, we, there's a couple of like, very, you know, basic things to cover. But what we don't want is to make it sound scripted and like people are just reading off of a note card because everybody will see right through that. And it immediately takes away how authentic people, um, view that streamer. And the authenticity is gold. It's incredibly valuable. And so if you allow them to go off script and be able to talk to their community in a way that the community likes to be talked to and can relate to, that's what matters. Um, again, kind of circling back to, uh, Granny, she did a campaign for Habitat for Humanity, but she would call it for Humanity and just said that the entire time. And the community felt like that was relatable. And yeah, and it seemed like it made Habitat for Humanity fun. And it seemed like, oh, they get it. Like Habitat wants to be a part of the entertainment, not take away from it.

Speaker B: That's a really good point. Yeah.

Speaker A: And that really drives these charity streams and these brand activations forward is if it's fun, the activation and the engagement drives the entertainment forward, which then benefits the charity and the brand because then people are donating to advance the entertainment. They're buying products or, uh, doing call outs for the brand to advance their entertainment. And so they look at that as a, is a great trade. It's not, oh, I have to sit here and watch, um, nine, you know, mid roll ads in order to, to get back to what I was watching. Like I'm a, I'm an active participant in a two way conversation and I'm learning about this brand because by learning about this brand and activating with this brand, I'm enhancing my experience and, and that's really what, uh, what really takes place and what needs to take place in order to not just get people to see your name but to hear your message.

Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely. I love what you said about the dialoguing and also, um, this idea of entertainment. I mean they don't want to be talked at, they want to participate and these are platforms that allow them to do so. Um, Matt, this has been really great. Where can people find you on the web?

Speaker A: So we're@softgiving.com you, uh, can find us on all the socials, uh, Twitter, Instagram, um, we're on LinkedIn, all those good, uh, places. Um, and uh, yeah, we're available pretty much anywhere and everywhere.

Speaker B: Okay, great. Well, we'll definitely post all of your contact information and your sites, um, in the show notes and definitely looking forward to promoting both you and Granny and all the other character, uh, streamers that I'm sure you have coming up. But thank you so much for your time.

Speaker A: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate and review wherever you get this podcast and follow us on social media for top marketing tips from our guests.