Joel Armin-Hoiland Mobilized $1.6 Billion in Climate Grants | Founder of Climate Finance Solutions

Speaker A: Welcome, um, to Net Zero. Today I'm speaking with Joel Aminhoydont, founder and CEO of Climate Finance Solutions, a company helping climate tech startups secure public funding. Joel, thank you so much for joining. You're calling in from California today, right?

Speaker B: That's right, Northern California.

Speaker A: That's nice. Yeah. So Joel, at CVS you secured over 1.6 billion USD in grants over the last years. So you're doing an amazing job. For those who haven't heard about CVS before, what exactly do we do and how would you describe your mission in one sentence?

Speaker B: So Climate Finance Solutions is a global consulting firm that helps climate tech companies and climate related organizations secure large scale non dilutive public funding. So that's mostly in the form of grants, but we also do subsidies, tax credits, incentives, and some government secured debt as well. And the large scale piece of that is, uh, we're typically looking at opportunities in the millions, but also we do quite a bit of work in the tens and even hundreds of millions as well.

Speaker A: That's great. Yeah, thank you. Um, how did you first get into the climatic space?

Speaker B: So it kind of started when I was, uh, young. As I mentioned, I'm up here in Northern California in Humboldt County. It's a very rural part of the north coast and that's where I grew up. And I'm back here now and the only stuff there is to do here is hiking and biking and backpacking and kayaking and all this outdoor stuff. Sounds good also. It is, it's a nice, it's a nice place to be, um, you know, at the time also this is where all the big coastal redwoods are. In the time when I was growing up in the 90s, um, there what we would call the timber wars, basically they were trying to cut down the last of, of the old growth redwoods. And so my family was pretty involved in activism around that. Plus my dad is a biologist. So you know, as, you know, as early as like late 80s, early 90s, climate change was a, was a dinner table topic probably, probably earlier than most people were talking about it. So, you know, this was a focus for me from a pretty young age. And uh, you know, I knew that I needed to do something about it as the defining challenge of our time. So that's what I dedicated my studies and whole career too.

Speaker A: Yes. Great. And what were you doing before you're founding cvs?

Speaker B: So I've actually been working with climate grants since about 2004, but a pretty wide range of positions and that kind of, that wide range of things and Interdisciplinary approach I think has, has really uh, helped us be really successful. I started my, my studies as my Bachelor's of science, uh, in environmental science. So kind of getting you know, technical underpinning with, with hard sciences, uh, but it was an interdisciplinary major it as well. Um, I've also done work in academic uh, research which obviously is largely funded by grants. I've worked on the board of directors for about five years of the Coastal Fund which is a grant making organization. I was the chairman of the board for about a year. It's a rotating chairmanship so uh, understand how to allocate grants as well and what goes into to managing them. On the grantor side. Worked for a short time at a state regulatory agency in California which obviously has to do with grants. And then in around 2011 got into the world of climate startups, climate tech SMEs and also along the way I should mention I got a Master's in environmental Law and policy. So kind of having that technical underpinning for my undergrad and some of my other work, you know the masters really helped me kind of create that systems thinking and strategic view of the entire ecosystem and then also understand the funding ecosystem from the policy side as well. Uh, and you know in the climate tech space I worked for a ah, small scale bioenergy company that was based in California but deployed to 40 different countries all around the world. And I had a pretty wide range of roles there over six years. So I was on the technical kind of engineering side and then I was uh, the director of manufacturing. So I learned a lot about manufacturing, uh, including outsourcing, uh, I was involved in operations and then I uh, ultimately was running project development for them again in 40 different countries including uh, the US and then I was running their grant funding. It was largely grant funded for a while and so got to do work in the US and in Europe and Africa and Asia and South America and all, all over the place. And you know this included winning some, some grants in Europe including a life grant which was kind of a preview to some of the work that we do now. And then I was recruited to work for a company that was doing climate related sustainable development work in Rwanda and East Africa. So uh, my wife and I moved to Europe and was mo, you know, mostly living in Europe but doing work in Africa and so that really got me even a better sense of the global ecosystem both in the developing world and in Europe. We work, we were looking, working with a lot of European institutions and a lot of funders did that for A couple of years and then uh, we actually came back. We, you know, hadn't seen our families for a while. So we came back to the US for a long holiday at the end of 2019. And of course we all know what happened in the beginning of 20 covet hit, so kind of got stuck here. But that really turned out to be a blessing in disguise. I've always kind of wanted to raise a family here in my hometown. So we um, you know, bought my childhood home and uh, now raising a family here, we have a 19 month old daughter. And so it's kind of come full circle in a lot of ways. Um, but you know, kind of fortunate as well. When I, when we came back for the holidays, I had left the company in Rwanda and was, was trying to figure out what my next step was going to be and was really just started kind of helping friends raise grant funding. That's what I've been doing pretty much full time for the last several years at that point. Um, I was initially working for Friends for free and then, you know, they were referring me to other people who needed help and that really started blowing up and realized there was something there that so many people needed help in this way. Um, so then, you know, a few months later, kind of a few months into, into 2020, kind of really got serious, started doing, you know, market analysis, competitive analysis, and realized that there was a real gap in helping climate tech companies access large scale public funding. Um, you know, there are firms, not to say that there aren't other firms that can, can do this. Right. But there aren't that many that can do it at scale, at a really deep technical level and with a really high success rate. Right. And with the kind of specialization that's required for these larger and more advanced projects. Right. And so, you know, there was an opportunity there, but it was also really important to me to make sure that the most innovative companies were securing this funding, not just the ones that kind of have the relationships and know how to find funding and put projects together. Because that is, you know, a lot of the grant funding does go to those companies and not necessarily the most innovative ones.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's a great point. Yeah, thank you. So let's take a larger look on the climate, uh, tech landscape, maybe the global look first. So how would you describe the looping of the climate tech space in the last five to 10 years? First, maybe on the global um, view.

Speaker B: I mean it's changed very dramatically, right. From kind of where we were 15 plus years ago with like the Clean Tech 1.0 bubble that, that burst and even just in the last five years it's really transformed right both on the public funding side and the private funding side. So I mean we saw investment, really a lot of people know investment in climate and generally surging kind of through 2021, 2022, you know, five or six times higher than it was a few a few years before. Peaked in 2021 though and then really started to decline pretty precipitously in 2023. It was obviously that was along with like the broader tech VC market, um, climate tech actually slowed a little bit less, less quickly than, than other areas. Um, you know, but the, the slowing also is not uniform. Right. The later stage, uh, like investment went down faster as well. And so kind of you saw this, this incredible peak and then it slow, slowing a little bit, but still didn't go back down to where it was, you know, kind of five, 10, 10 years ago as well. And then of course within this environment public funding was increasing at the same time, uh, has peaked to some degree in the US and not necessarily in Europe and other places. But with what's happening in the investment market, grants and public funding are even more important. So in that kind of, in that same time period, you know Europe, uh, Europe's ecosystem really matured with the, the EU green deal was really a sea change in Europe. Massive increase in funding made Europe by far the world's largest climate climate financing geography. Of course the US with the legislation, with the inflation Reduction act and bipartisan infrastructure law in 2022 deployed almost 500 billion in that time period. So dramatically increased the available funding for climate in, in the US of course the current administration past year has reversed almost all, not all of these gains.

Speaker A: How's it going right now in the US So how are you seeing the impact that the Trump administration has right now?

Speaker B: So well, we're basically constantly scoring own goals ourselves, right? So the administration is basically since, you know, since January when they came into power, they essentially halted all grants, not just climate grants, but all grants across the entire federal government. They initially completely froze grants and that was rejected by the courts, but they essentially did a top to bottom review of, of all grant programs. Many recurring grant programs they canceled. There were many grant programs that people had already applied to or were waiting to hear and those were also canceled. Even there's been some pretty high profile terminations of existing contracts. Most contracts, including what we would consider climate tech, uh, grants actually haven't been canceled and are still getting reimbursed. But the availability of funding for climate tech has decreased, you know, in a pretty incredible amount. There is still funding available, it's just in a much kind of more narrow set of um, areas. Right. So the administration priorities basically in this, in these areas have to do with geothermal, nuclear, hydro, grid technologies. Critical minerals is a big one. There's like a massive billion opportunity out, out now or uh, will be out very shortly for, for critical minerals as well as obviously funding for oil and gas and perhaps some different elements that, that are related to oil and gas. So there is some funding available and actually still is like a fairly broad base of funding in terms of the types of technologies, at least more broad based than there was previously. Um, but you know, the federal government is by far the largest funder in general and certainly climate funder in the US and so that has gone down. Most of that has, has gone away, especially from where it was kind of in the heights of 2023, 2024. Um, but state level funding has also increased significantly. California just passed uh, something in a package of bills in September of this year, September 2025 that allocated tens of billions more to climate spending. So there is, there are exciting things happening and, but not with the gap that the federal government has left.

Speaker A: So uh, I would say it's more important than ever to have you on board and collaborating with you to secure these grants.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean there's certainly like the stakes of missing an opportunity that you're relevant for is much higher than before. Right. You know, a couple of years ago like well we missed that grant, but there'll be another one in two months. Now it's like you really need to be able to uh, assess, identify the right opportunities, monitor the ecosystem very closely and make sure you're applying for the opportunities that you are a fit for. Whether that's you know, on the US federal side or US state side or even in Europe and other places. And then you know, obviously understanding how to very efficiently and effectively secure that funding is super important.

Speaker A: Absolutely, yes, I can imagine. To sum the global perspective, to sum it up a little bit, what do you say are uh, the biggest differences between Europe, the USA and Africa? So you, you mentioned Africa. So you also got the view there?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean Europe basically has, is, is highly coordinated across the single market, very policy heavy, policy driven. Um, there's kind of like EU funding, there's overarching EU funding that's available in all member states, and then there are national programs as well. With national programs, typically they're easier to Apply for less competitive, usually smaller and obviously typically like pretty earlier mid, for mid stage technologies or development. The EU funding kind of fills in like the very early fundamental gaps and is most of the kind of scale up, larger scale scale up funding does come from the eu, although the EU certainly funds mid stage research and pilots as well. You know there are kind of key mechanisms to know about in Europe, right With Horizon Europe, the Innovation Fund, which funds like first of a kind commercial deployments, life EIC accelerators is quite common. And then you know if you, if you're doing it correctly, uh, you know you can get national funds that kind of complement EU funds and then you can even use national funds for some EU co financing requirements. But generally speaking it's a very kind of strategic and grant heavy model, especially around like consortia, larger scale collaborations, making sure you're aligned with these kind of policy heavy targets. I think the EU also is in the midst of developing kind of additional policy that really has a strategic focus on driving growth and especially competitiveness, economic competitiveness through the use of climate tech. Right. They are putting together the clean industrial deal or that that passed in February. They're putting together this hundred billion clean industrial bank, they're, they're streamlining regulations with the Industrial Decarbonization Accelerator act to enable these larger scale um, uh plans to be, to be put in place. Um, there's a whole scale up strategy, uh, so there's a lot going on in Europe to um, kind of enable this later stage funding and fill these later stage funding um, gaps. Plus they're just increasing funding with doubling Horizon Europe and increasing climate there. In the US we talked a little bit about kind of the uh, topical uh, current events that are happening there with the new administration. But generally speaking US grant funding is more decentralized than in Europe. Right. So it's not just the federal government, there's a lot of different state agencies, there's a lot of different agencies within the federal government as well. The US tends to mix competitive grants and tax based mechanisms. A lot of the inflation reduction acts funding kind of came through this like demand pull or market pull tax based mechanisms. But you know certainly even with the reduction of the federal government there, there's a uh, significant amount of funding from, from state as well, but definitely more kind of market and incentive oriented than the EU when you get outside the eu, Canada kind of has a similar, fairly similar to the US or maybe somewhere between the US and EU in terms of the trends and how they, how they fund things. You know when you get into Africa that's very driven by international development funding. Right. So you're talking about multilateral instit institutions like the World bank and Green Climate Fund, um, bilateral aid agencies and development finance institutions. You know, so mostly international funding, some, some national funding. You know Asia is really interesting because it's a much more diverse. Right. So there's, there are different, there are a lot of different countries with different income levels. So the, you know, the kind of trend, different countries that are in the same similar income level kind of tend to fund things the same. So you know, Japan, Korea, Singapore have pretty extensive government R and D programs including for, for climate, uh, especially in Japan. Obviously China is, you know, much more state directed. And then you get into kind of middle income and low income countries, you know, like India, they have some of their own funding. They also have a lot of multilateral climate funding that comes in, you know, a lot of countries in south or Southeast Asia rely on this multilateral, uh, develop more development funding as well. Right. So it's very different model from, from what you're looking at in the US and in Europe.

Speaker A: So if you were a founder, where would you start your company Right now if you had, if you had to

Speaker B: choose, where would I start a climate company?

Speaker A: Yes, climate.

Speaker B: I mean, I guess with the caveat that the first principle really needs to be around your market. Right. So even though I'm obviously a big believer in public funding, in the power of public funding, if the market, you know, the, the commercial environment is better in the U.S. i would say you should start it in the U.S. but you know, all things being equal and not kind of specifying any sector or market, I think Europe is probably, you know, the place to be in terms of availability of public funding both on the national and EU level. Certainly if you're in a, you know, if you have a business that is going to be scaling up and deploying, you know, a larger scale first of a kind, or you know, commercial plants that are going to require public subsidies. Really, you know, you're only going to get those in Europe at least right now. Like the high tens, hundreds of millions grant opportunities that, that were pretty commonplace in the United States as recently as, you know, 12 months ago. Um, our, you know, are basically only found in Europe at this point.

Speaker A: Yes, fair enough. So you mentioned grant funding isn't the only thing for EFF holders and companies um, out there. So how would you describe the best strategy on um, combining venture capital and grants? Um, yeah. Alongside the way of Econometech Co. Yeah,

Speaker B: so I think it's a really great question. I think it's really important for founders to have what we call an integrated fundraising strategy. And this is something that we work on with our uh, clients all the time. I think because of the availability of public funding for climate, we know that to really be successful, I mean most climate companies that have achieved growth scale have taken advantage of the full capital stack and all the different types of funding. But it is really important to understand how to effectively integrate these different types of capital. Strategic sequencing, how to take them at certain times and in certain amounts to enable each to kind of mitigate the drawbacks of the other ones. So obviously there are drawbacks in every single, with every single type of funding, right? Grant funding. As most people who've done grant funding or looked into it know, it's very complex, it's very time consuming. There's fair amount of post award management or maybe a lot of post award management depending on the program. Uh, there are lag times between the time you apply and the time you receive the funding. But obviously it's non dilutive, doesn't require you to give up equity and it's, it provides extremely patient and risk tolerant capital to give you time to help you de risk your technology and validate milestones. And it also can actually help you secure equity and other forms of funding on more advantageous terms. So uh, investment funding is, is highly complementary to this. Right? So grants have lag times. Investment funding can help provide the Runway that you need to get through those lag times. Um, and this is a difficult environment but it can be faster um, to raise and it's definitely more flexible. Right. So grant funding and for some of these incentives even um, you know you have to define a very specific project that you're going in a very specific uses of funds and you have to do that to some degree with, with equity but, but not nearly to that, to that level of detail. So you know, it's a lot more flexible, it's great for supporting commercialization, but it is the most expensive form of capital. Right, because you're giving up equity in your, in your company. Um, and of course debt financing is kind of like the other really big bucket and another really important non dilutive funding source and is becoming actually more available from public funding sources than it has previously. You know, I think you want to deploy debt financing in very specific ways. Oftentimes it's for like later stage scale up infrastructure, revenue generating capex, but it can be also used for operating expenses or equipment Depending on what, what type of business you have. You know, with uh, kind of taking all those things into account, the strategy has to really be tailored to the needs of your company and part of the overall capital planning process. You, Right, you're looking at your, your technology roadmap, your, your pathway to commercialization and scale and ideally you've done some sort of ecosystem mapping and you're monitoring the, the funding ecosystem for public funding. You identified really the relevant funding opportunities that can, that can fund different parts of your, of your technology roadmap and you kind of match those up to where you need to where the funding needs to be used and then you understand where the gaps are. So that's where you can use equity investment to, to fill those gaps or the other way around. I think a lot of companies kind of know either in the middle of a raise or they know how much money they're going to raise. Um, and that you kind of have to analyze where the gaps are going to be there as well and ah, where you can use grants and non dilutive funding.

Speaker A: Yes. Love these insights, very interesting. And I think a lot of founders maybe forget about the importance of yeah, the grant funding to take it maybe on top of the equity funding. But yeah, however they should reach out to you guys to make sure they know the best way for their equity path and funding path. But yes, let's talk about some examples of companies that you were helping to secure grant funding and maybe you can share one or two of them.

Speaker B: Yeah, so we work with a very wide range um, of companies and we work in climate but we say we're sector agnostic. So we worked in pretty much every industry vertical, done about 300 projects uh, uh, since I founded the company, a little over 300 at this point. Since I founded the company in 2020 as you said you mentioned, we've ra about 1.6 billion and we've done that with, with an over 90% success rate in terms of funding awarded versus funding pursued. So they're had a hard time kind of picking different case studies and obviously can't share the names of all the companies due to confidentiality. But you know, I think one of the things that came to mind was one of our innovation Fund projects from last round. So this was a uh, carbon capture that was happening at a chemical production facility with geologic storage of the CO2. The total project size was 350 million euros with 150 million grant. So it was quite a sizable project. An American company was, was our client and also the lead applicant but they had really, really strong European partnerships including with uh, with the company that was, had the facility understood, you know, the upstream, the, the feedstock suppliers, where they sat in the value chain, had a really, you know, strong plan for transportation and storage of the CO2 and all those different elements. So I think for them, especially as an American company, the partnerships are really a key competitive element, um, you know, understanding and how they were integrated in the value chain. They also did a really good job of preparation. We did a lot of pre work and scoping well ahead of time and they had a lot of documentation that was really helpful for some of the longer leads items that you need for Innovation Fund like you know, greenhouse gas methodology and feasibility studies and things like that. So that was a really exciting project. Another project that was not super similar but like along the same lines is a company that we can disclose the name. So we worked with a company called Rondo that does thermal, uh, thermal, uh, we won a GRANT that was 75 million from the Department of Energy's Office of Clean Energy demonstration. That office is now has been disbanded by the new administration. But it was really dedicated to supporting these larger scale, first of a kind commercial demonstrations just like this one. We worked with one of the largest multinational food and beverage corporations to decarbonize two of their sites. One was a distillery and one was a bottling plant. Use the heat battery that was charged by renewable electricity and could store the heat heat almost indefinitely and then output electricity and heat to replace pretty much all the fossil fuels uh, that were used for industrial process heat at those two sites. So really exciting technology. This is something that the, you know, the EU is very, very interested in. They actually have a whole industrial heat um auction, a billion euro industrial heat auction as part of the Innovation Fund this round. They're also likely to fund um, you know thermal heat is through the normal grant process in innovation, um, fund too. You know, I think it would help that they're you know, an industry leader in terms of the technology and where they are in the market. I think another thing that was really good about this project was really demonstrated the potential for replication and scaling not just in food and beverage, but also really across a lot of different industries. A needle industrial process heat and have grid constraints. And then also the way that they do their processes is they do a really good job of being able to kind of rapidly retrofit industrial facilities at commercial scale to really demonstrate how the technology is economically viable without any green premium. Right. And I think that a lot of people are Talking about that now like climate technologies cannot have a green premium. They can't be impact first. They have even, even grant funded ones, um, at least at scale really need to be achieve cost parity or, or be cheaper. Obviously those are two very large, large projects. Um, we don't, we don't always do grants that are in the multi hundreds or high tens of millions. So I think one exciting Horizon Europe uh project. There was a European company that we worked with on Horizon for a 7 million dollar grant or 7 million euro grant, sorry. And ah, that was what they do Is they converted CO2, waste CO2 to chemicals and materials through a fermentation process. They have a really innovative solution that's a really good fit for grant funding. And we went through a very long, you know, very extensive down selection and pre scoping process with them, um, and identification process because they are, they were eligible for a lot of different types of funding opportunities especially with the latest round of Horizon Europe and in life. So we made sure that we were down selecting and applying for the right opportunity. And then also they just have a really good holistic approach that funders want to see right. Not just kind of doing R and D or innovation but really understanding like partnerships and communication and dissemination. All these other things that are really important to be successful with European grants. Of course things that we help them with as well.

Speaker A: Yes, thank you, thank you very much for sharing these cases. Very interesting. So talking about the European ecosystem. So are uh, you optimistic about the next couple of years, next 10 years for the climate tech space in Europe with the program that we, that we have right now?

Speaker B: I do think that there's reason for optimism. I think people in the US have quite a bit of PTSD from going through this last year with the new federal administration. You know, I think we do a lot of work, uh, I mean actually the majority of the work that we do is in Europe and so we are seeing all of the climate funding that's, that's in Europe. And of course there's there are policy disagreements about where climate funding is going to go in Europe. But generally speaking there is still quite a bit of support for, for funding climate in Europe. And you know, especially with some of these kind of geopolitical drivers. You know, look, with, with Europe looking at more growth and competitiveness and, and really I think properly assessing that, that uh, industrial decarbonization does provide can be an engine for economic growth and economic competitiveness. You know, going, going, you know harder on, on scale up and infrastructure I think is actually really positive and it's really exciting to see, especially because we do a lot of these larger scale projects and we get to be involved in that. And there are tens if not hundreds of billions more coming down the pike. And obviously a lot of this is being negotiated with the next multiannual financial framework in Europe. I think in Europe there's a lot to be optimistic about on, on the public sector side, um, even though there are, you know, they're still negotiating things on, on the policy side. Um, you know, I think in, in, in the US there's, there's a lot to be positive about on the state level. A lot of states are still increasing the amount of funding. I mentioned California, uh, but there are a lot of other states that have tens of billions and even some states, you know, red states where you wouldn't consider them like climate friendly or climate funders and they don't have like climate programs. We've been able to secure funding there through things like, okay, if this is not a climate tech technology, this is advanced, uh, manufacturing or this is critical minerals or this is economic development. And so reframing things to some degree, which um, you've always had to do, but being able to do that really enables you to secure funding from, from those red states and also from, you know, this current administration. We're working on a lot of these critical minerals opportunities right now. And obviously there's a lot of climate benefit there. We're not talking about the climate benefits, we're talking about the, on shoring and reshoring and economic competitiveness. So I think it's perhaps not quite as bleak as folks think, but it's definitely not ideal in the US I think the other thing I would say is that international development funding for climate has always been woefully underfunded and it still is. Having worked in that space for a very long time, that is very important to me personally, but also just to the world. Right. The majority of the emissions growth from here on out is going to be happening not in Europe and not in the US and not in the industrialized countries. And so if we really want to get a handle on climate, we have to provide more funding in the development space, probably through these multilateral institutions. And then also obviously like we have a duty to provide out of patient funding for these most vulnerable people.

Speaker A: It's great insights. At least you made me optimistic about the European side. So let's see how it's turning out in the next years. But yeah, let's speak about different ways for founders they want to get their hands on these grant programs. What are the best ways to reach out to you guys and to CBAs?

Speaker B: Yeah, so in terms of just getting in touch with us, you can connect easily through our website, clement financesolutions.com I think one in terms of how to collaborate, I think we provide services really throughout the full funding life cycle. So everything from funding identification and assessment, funding strategy, funder engagement, proposal development obviously is a core part of what we do and then post award management as well. So I think that obviously if folks come to us and they have a specific opportunity they're interested in, we obviously are happy to work with them on it. Well, we'll give them our very candid opinion as to whether it's a good fit or not. You know, oftentimes if folks say, you know, they want grant funding or public funding to be a core part of their capital stack, whether that's for their, their company or uh, for a project, but they don't have a specific opportunity in mind, that's where the identification and assessment piece comes in. Frankly, I think to me that's the most important part of the entire process and sometimes people are surprised to hear me say that. But I mean, look, if you're pursuing the wrong grant or funding opportunity, you're not going to win, right? And so you're wasting your time or potentially you could be chasing funding off of your roadmap and you win it and it's a huge distraction for three years and that can be actually worse. Right. So I think with every single stage that I was talking about there, it's really important to kind of take a step back, be very intentional and have a really strategic approach to all of these different elements. So we've actually developed a software platform that enables real time monitoring and custom matching of grants with alerts when there are relevant opportunities. And I should say grants and incentives and loans and basically public, just generally public funding related to climate. It's comprehensive for climate related opportunities in Europe, Europe, US and Canada. Right now we are expanding that to new countries over the next few months and by next year it should be global. It is an AI, as you can imagine, AI enabled platform. But I think one of the differentiators for this platform is that there's a human in the loop at every single stage. Right. Whether that's the onboarding, the matching, um, and it also gives you immediate access to our, to our experts for like the pre scoping that you need to do the strategy, decision making support all directly from our platform and so that's usually a really great place to start to just understand strategically like what is out there. And it helps you go through the process of taking a really comprehensive look at the, at the ecosystem and then helping you go through the right down selection process. So you're only going after the opportunities that you have the highest chance of success with, um, and are the most well aligned with, with what you're, with what you're, um, trying to do. So the. And it only costs about €80 per month as a subscription and if folks contact us in the next month and mention this podcast, they'll get three months for free. So that's a benefit for your listeners. Um, yeah.

Speaker A: Make sure you're going to use it. Yes. Thank you so much. So, yeah, you will find all the important links in the video description below, so don't worry. Yeah. Joel, um, in this point, thank you so much for your time and the insights. Hope to see you soon and enjoy the California sun.

Speaker B: Thank you. I really appreciate it. It's been really fun talking to.