How Independent Retailers Win With Testing & Trust with Deleo de Leonardis

1 00:00:00,080 - > 00:00:02,319 Deleo de Leonardis: Well, what's really interesting actually for 2 00:00:02,319 - > 00:00:06,160 a smaller retailer, so I'll I'll when I speak to the bigger 3 00:00:06,160 - > 00:00:09,679 retailers and we talk about doing authenticity testing, 4 00:00:09,679 - > 00:00:13,439 they're always talking about, you know, s you know, making the 5 00:00:13,439 - > 00:00:15,039 manufacturer pay for the testing. 6 00:00:15,039 - > 00:00:17,920 So they pass that cost on to the supplier. 7 00:00:17,920 - > 00:00:21,760 The small retailer, again, in lack of leverage, probably 8 00:00:21,760 - > 00:00:22,719 wouldn't be able to do that. 9 00:00:22,719 - > 00:00:24,000 But that's actually not a bad thing. 10 00:00:24,239 - > 00:00:26,640 Tina Maddock: Welcome to the Natural Products Marketer 11 00:00:26,640 - > 00:00:27,280 Podcast. 12 00:00:27,280 - > 00:00:29,600 I'm your host, Tina Matdock. 13 00:00:29,600 - > 00:00:33,119 On this podcast, you'll hear from manufacturers, retail 14 00:00:33,119 - > 00:00:37,359 owners and operators, and other business experts that will help 15 00:00:37,359 - > 00:00:40,479 you grow your business so you can serve more people and change 16 00:00:40,479 - > 00:00:41,359 more lives. 17 00:00:41,359 - > 00:00:45,039 I'm so excited to chat with you today, Delio. 18 00:00:45,039 - > 00:00:51,119 And we just recorded our podcast with Brian Hall from The 19 00:00:51,119 - > 00:00:51,679 Grace. 20 00:00:51,679 - > 00:00:54,560 And he mentioned you on the podcast. 21 00:00:54,560 - > 00:00:57,600 And so for the listeners, they will have already heard his. 22 00:03:32,960 - > 00:03:34,879 Deleo de Leonardis: So, you know, in the pharmacy world, I 23 00:03:34,879 - > 00:03:38,800 was with at one point, you know, the largest super grocery chain 24 00:03:38,800 - > 00:03:41,039 pharmacy chain in Canada. 25 00:03:41,039 - > 00:03:45,360 And then the supermarket uh 20 years was with uh SOVE's, the 26 00:03:45,360 - > 00:03:48,080 second largest uh chain in Canada. 27 00:03:48,080 - > 00:03:52,719 So I came from a world where we had a lot of leverage, you 28 00:03:52,719 - > 00:03:54,000 know, conversations. 29 00:03:54,000 - > 00:03:57,599 You you you held you know the big end of the stick when you 30 00:03:57,599 - > 00:04:01,039 were talking to suppliers and manufacturers, and you know what 31 00:04:01,039 - > 00:04:05,120 I what I heard, and wasn't surprising, of course, um, 32 00:04:05,120 - > 00:04:09,120 really is the ability for the smaller guys to be able to 33 00:04:09,120 - > 00:04:12,159 compete effectively against the bigger chains, you know, and 34 00:04:12,159 - > 00:04:16,639 that's that's what I heard uh pretty pretty regularly. 35 00:04:16,639 - > 00:04:21,519 And and they saw private label as an opportunity for them uh to 36 00:04:21,519 - > 00:04:25,519 be able to uh first of all compete uh on price. 37 00:04:25,519 - > 00:04:29,120 So typically private label is is a cheaper retail than the 38 00:04:29,120 - > 00:04:33,360 brand name, and it's a better margin play, so that was also of 39 00:04:33,360 - > 00:04:34,560 importance to them. 40 00:04:34,560 - > 00:04:36,879 And it's also a loyalty play. 41 00:04:36,879 - > 00:04:39,680 If you've got a brand that people can't get anywhere else 42 00:04:39,680 - > 00:04:43,040 then and they like it, then they will be shopping exclusively at 43 00:04:43,040 - > 00:04:44,800 your store for that brand. 44 00:04:44,800 - > 00:04:47,920 But the problem that they had, that they were saying, and 45 00:04:47,920 - > 00:04:50,879 again, I I know there were some bid-sized chains there with you 46 00:04:50,879 - > 00:04:53,839 know several stores, but I was really I ended up talking only 47 00:04:53,839 - > 00:04:58,639 to the to the small uh one or two store, maybe three uh store 48 00:04:58,639 - > 00:04:59,839 uh retailers. 49 00:04:59,839 - > 00:05:03,839 And they really are dependent on the supplier to get things 50 00:05:03,839 - > 00:05:06,560 right, you know, because once the product carries their 51 00:05:06,560 - > 00:05:09,759 private label name, I think they realize any issue becomes their 52 00:05:09,759 - > 00:05:10,079 issue. 53 00:05:10,079 - > 00:05:12,879 You know, if if there's a problem with a brand name and a 54 00:05:12,879 - > 00:05:15,040 recall, you're not under the microscope. 55 00:05:15,040 - > 00:05:18,160 You're carrying the product, it's it's a manufacturer's uh 56 00:05:18,160 - > 00:05:19,519 issue and they have to deal with it. 57 00:05:19,519 - > 00:05:22,319 But when it's your brand, all of that changes. 58 00:05:22,319 - > 00:05:25,519 Um, and they spoke about the fact that you know what what is 59 00:05:25,519 - > 00:05:29,120 tough for them is they're limited in their suppliers that 60 00:05:29,120 - > 00:05:30,079 they can talk to. 61 00:05:30,079 - > 00:05:32,879 Um you know, while I was talking about leverage, the big 62 00:05:32,879 - > 00:05:36,399 brands have, you know, the big retailers have leverage, but the 63 00:05:36,399 - > 00:05:40,560 smaller ones really um because of their volume, they're really 64 00:05:40,560 - > 00:05:42,639 limited to who they can do business with. 65 00:05:42,639 - > 00:05:44,240 And so there's cost pressure. 66 00:05:44,240 - > 00:05:48,160 You may not get a great private label, you know, cost and that 67 00:05:48,160 - > 00:05:52,160 great retail you're looking for, and there's limited visibility 68 00:05:52,160 - > 00:05:54,879 to what's actually in the product that you're buying, 69 00:05:54,879 - > 00:05:55,120 right? 70 00:05:55,120 - > 00:05:59,199 So I would talk to them about authenticity testing, and we'll 71 00:05:59,199 - > 00:06:02,319 talk a little bit about I you know explain what my company 72 00:06:02,319 - > 00:06:08,480 does, but to be able to have objective proof that what you're 73 00:06:08,480 - > 00:06:12,079 putting on your shelf is genuine and consistently 74 00:06:12,079 - > 00:06:15,920 genuine, and not just compliant on paper, you know, and you know 75 00:06:15,920 - > 00:06:19,680 documents can be easily falsified, but to be able to say 76 00:06:19,680 - > 00:06:24,879 that you know with scientific proof that it's that it is 77 00:06:24,879 - > 00:06:28,720 authentic and and that it's relatively inexpensive. 78 00:06:28,720 - > 00:06:31,759 So the cost of testing is inexpensive, but really 79 00:06:31,759 - > 00:06:34,800 importantly, you don't need a massive QA department here to do 80 00:06:34,800 - > 00:06:35,040 this. 81 00:06:35,040 - > 00:06:39,120 You just need to find a solid private legal partner with a 82 00:06:39,120 - > 00:06:40,240 proactive mindset. 83 00:06:40,240 - > 00:06:42,639 Really, that was kind of where I was talking about. 84 00:06:42,639 - > 00:06:46,319 So I was talking to them both from uh a peering IQ perspective 85 00:06:46,319 - > 00:06:48,160 and also as a former retailer. 86 00:06:48,160 - > 00:06:50,560 I think they were listening to me a bit more than they might 87 00:06:50,560 - > 00:06:54,160 typically think that this was just a sales pitch, you know, 88 00:06:54,160 - > 00:06:56,639 from from a company who's at the show, right? 89 00:06:56,639 - > 00:07:00,319 So that was that was what I was hearing pretty consistently. 90 00:07:00,879 - > 00:07:03,759 Tina Maddock: Yeah, and you know, we talk about white label 91 00:07:03,759 - > 00:07:08,560 a lot because it is such a great way to maintain some margin, 92 00:07:08,560 - > 00:07:13,680 give your customers a different price point, and um really make 93 00:07:13,680 - > 00:07:14,319 it sticky. 94 00:07:14,319 - > 00:07:17,439 All the things that you just said, they they can't find this 95 00:07:17,439 - > 00:07:18,480 product anywhere else. 96 00:07:18,480 - > 00:07:22,480 So you're you're more competitive than anything else. 97 00:07:22,480 - > 00:07:26,079 Um and they come back to you over and over again for that 98 00:07:26,079 - > 00:07:28,879 product because they just can't find it anywhere else. 99 00:07:28,879 - > 00:07:33,680 What you need for that is a really good brand already in the 100 00:07:33,680 - > 00:07:37,360 store for people already trusting you, that you're the 101 00:07:37,360 - > 00:07:40,480 person that knows the best sourcing. 102 00:07:40,480 - > 00:07:43,360 Um, you're bringing them purity of product already. 103 00:07:43,360 - > 00:07:48,399 So some of that is um from a marketing and messaging 104 00:07:48,399 - > 00:07:52,560 perspective, getting in there and creating that level of value 105 00:07:52,560 - > 00:07:56,480 for your customer means that whenever they see your brand 106 00:07:56,480 - > 00:08:01,040 versus someone else, they have high trust in what the in the 107 00:08:01,040 - > 00:08:03,680 label just because it has your name on it now. 108 00:08:03,680 - > 00:08:07,759 Everything you're bringing up is super important because that 109 00:08:07,759 - > 00:08:14,000 also means you have liability, you um erosion of trust is so 110 00:08:14,000 - > 00:08:16,959 fast, like you can spend spend years and years and years and 111 00:08:16,959 - > 00:08:18,079 years building it up. 112 00:08:18,079 - > 00:08:21,120 But if there's a problem with the product or something comes 113 00:08:21,120 - > 00:08:24,240 out about the product, that erosion of trust can happen 114 00:08:24,240 - > 00:08:28,879 overnight, and immediately you're gonna spend years rep in 115 00:08:28,879 - > 00:08:30,000 repairing that. 116 00:08:30,000 - > 00:08:32,480 And so talking if you can. 117 00:08:32,480 - > 00:08:34,639 Yeah, absolutely. 118 00:08:34,639 - > 00:08:37,519 Because you might not be able to, especially because most of 119 00:08:37,519 - > 00:08:40,399 these stores are community-based, and that 120 00:08:40,399 - > 00:08:43,759 community turnover doesn't happen very quickly. 121 00:08:43,759 - > 00:08:46,639 So um, so you're absolutely right. 122 00:08:46,639 - > 00:08:48,559 And um, I don't know. 123 00:08:48,559 - > 00:08:51,200 Do you know the book How Not to Die? 124 00:08:52,159 - > 00:08:53,360 Deleo de Leonardis: No, I've never heard of it. 125 00:08:53,519 - > 00:08:58,159 Tina Maddock: Okay, there is um a doctor who writes um the book, 126 00:08:58,159 - > 00:09:02,320 How Not to Die, and more recently he's come out with How 127 00:09:02,320 - > 00:09:03,360 Not to Age. 128 00:09:03,360 - > 00:09:08,159 And what's interesting about that is uh I love reading his 129 00:09:08,159 - > 00:09:12,240 books because he has a lot of scientific data to back up all 130 00:09:12,240 - > 00:09:15,919 the different claims he's making, or to say this is why I 131 00:09:15,919 - > 00:09:20,159 use turmeric and this is what why you pair it with curcumin 132 00:09:20,159 - > 00:09:21,600 and capstaysin. 133 00:09:21,600 - > 00:09:26,639 So he has a lot of studies, lots of footnotes, very thick 134 00:09:26,639 - > 00:09:27,200 books. 135 00:09:27,200 - > 00:09:32,399 Um, at the beginning of How Not to Age, he specifically talks 136 00:09:32,399 - > 00:09:36,559 about when you go to buy a supplement at a grocery store, 137 00:09:36,559 - > 00:09:40,159 there's he's got a percentage of how many of them actually have 138 00:09:40,159 - > 00:09:42,720 what it says on the label that they have. 139 00:09:42,720 - > 00:09:47,200 And he also talks about heavy metals and toxins in there. 140 00:09:47,200 - > 00:09:52,960 And so I do think, especially there are many people that are 141 00:09:52,960 - > 00:09:56,080 coming to your store that are well versed in some of these 142 00:09:56,080 - > 00:10:01,440 academic papers or or books or people are making TikToks off of 143 00:10:01,440 - > 00:10:01,840 this book. 144 00:10:01,840 - > 00:10:06,399 And so talk to us a little bit about what you see about what's 145 00:10:06,399 - > 00:10:08,799 on the label versus what's in the jar. 146 00:10:09,759 - > 00:10:11,679 Deleo de Leonardis: Well, and that's kind of our if you go to 147 00:10:11,679 - > 00:10:14,320 our website, that's the first thing that comes up on the 148 00:10:14,320 - > 00:10:17,840 landing page is we verify that what's on the label is actually 149 00:10:17,840 - > 00:10:18,480 in the product. 150 00:10:18,480 - > 00:10:20,320 Nothing more, nothing less. 151 00:10:20,320 - > 00:10:23,919 So, you know, this is on mantra, and this is what really 152 00:10:23,919 - > 00:10:25,759 why we created the company. 153 00:10:25,759 - > 00:10:29,039 Um, and again, I I I've mentioned my background is all 154 00:10:29,039 - > 00:10:30,240 retail and not a scientist. 155 00:10:30,240 - > 00:10:32,399 I don't have a scientific bone in my body. 156 00:10:32,399 - > 00:10:35,679 And I didn't mention that for, so I was in senior positions 157 00:10:35,679 - > 00:10:37,360 when I was at the supermarket chain. 158 00:10:37,360 - > 00:10:40,879 Uh, amongst them, I was VP of Private Label for many years. 159 00:10:40,879 - > 00:10:43,840 So not only did I, you know, have an opportunity to talk to 160 00:10:43,840 - > 00:10:48,000 them as a former retailer, but with knowledge of private label. 161 00:10:48,000 - > 00:10:51,679 And even so, we'll talk about white label in a second. 162 00:10:51,679 - > 00:10:54,720 You know, there's pros and cons to white label, uh, but some of 163 00:10:54,720 - > 00:10:57,120 the issues are the same, whether it's private label or 164 00:10:57,120 - > 00:11:01,600 white label, or a brand on the shelf, forget your own label. 165 00:11:01,600 - > 00:11:07,679 A lot of people are misinformed uh because they think that the 166 00:11:07,679 - > 00:11:11,840 regulatory requirement uh to test products takes care of all 167 00:11:11,840 - > 00:11:13,120 of these issues. 168 00:11:13,120 - > 00:11:17,120 And there are, you know, minimum tests you have to do to 169 00:11:17,120 - > 00:11:20,320 be compliant, again, to make sure the product's safe for 170 00:11:20,320 - > 00:11:20,720 consumption. 171 00:11:20,720 - > 00:11:23,360 So, you know, heavy metal, as you mentioned, pesticides, 172 00:11:23,360 - > 00:11:25,679 microbial testing, pathogens, etc. 173 00:11:25,679 - > 00:11:27,759 And also identity testing. 174 00:11:27,759 - > 00:11:31,120 So an identity test, both in the US and Canada and Europe, 175 00:11:31,120 - > 00:11:32,799 you have to do an identity test. 176 00:11:32,799 - > 00:11:37,759 What a lot of people don't realize is an identity test will 177 00:11:37,759 - > 00:11:41,039 just tell you that the product or the ingredient you're 178 00:11:41,039 - > 00:11:43,120 expecting to find in the product is there. 179 00:11:43,120 - > 00:11:47,360 It won't necessarily tell you if anything else is in there. 180 00:11:47,360 - > 00:11:51,759 That's the big, you know, aha moment when we're talking to 181 00:11:51,759 - > 00:11:54,240 people because they assume they're checking off all the 182 00:11:54,240 - > 00:11:54,559 boxes. 183 00:11:54,559 - > 00:11:57,600 And I'm talking about retailers, the brand owners, I'm 184 00:11:57,600 - > 00:12:00,399 talking about manufacturers, you know, often they're 185 00:12:00,399 - > 00:12:02,879 dependent on others for their input material, unless you're 186 00:12:02,879 - > 00:12:03,759 perfectly integrated. 187 00:12:03,759 - > 00:12:07,120 You've got ingredient suppliers you're buying RS from, and 188 00:12:07,120 - > 00:12:10,159 people are only asking for a certificate of analysis that 189 00:12:10,159 - > 00:12:11,279 proves identity. 190 00:12:11,279 - > 00:12:14,000 So is there F and H value in this bottle of amnesia? 191 00:12:14,000 - > 00:12:16,159 And they say, Yep, yeah, perfect, done. 192 00:12:16,159 - > 00:12:18,720 Is there anything else in there that shouldn't be there? 193 00:12:18,720 - > 00:12:21,120 And that's where purity testing comes in. 194 00:12:21,120 - > 00:12:24,000 You know, that's why we picked the name Purity IQ, because we 195 00:12:24,000 - > 00:12:27,759 wanted to differentiate ourselves and say it's not just 196 00:12:27,759 - > 00:12:30,720 an identity test, and that's all that the regulatory 197 00:12:30,720 - > 00:12:31,919 requirements are. 198 00:12:31,919 - > 00:12:36,480 So this whole notion of product adulteration, food fraud, and 199 00:12:36,480 - > 00:12:39,279 again it's supplements and it's not food fraud, but it's fraud. 200 00:12:39,279 - > 00:12:41,519 It's all economically motivated. 201 00:12:41,519 - > 00:12:43,519 No one's actually trying to kill you. 202 00:12:43,519 - > 00:12:46,639 This is not terrorism, but it is trying to make a buck. 203 00:12:46,639 - > 00:12:50,000 And there are a lot of people out there trying to make a buck, 204 00:12:50,000 - > 00:12:52,799 and it's existed since the dawn of time. 205 00:12:52,799 - > 00:12:56,799 I think the first documented cases are ancient uh Italy or 206 00:12:56,799 - > 00:12:58,240 ancient Rome and ancient Greece. 207 00:12:58,240 - > 00:13:00,480 So, I mean, those are first documented cases. 208 00:13:00,480 - > 00:13:02,720 God only knows how far back it really goes. 209 00:13:02,720 - > 00:13:06,480 So it's it's a real concern and it continues today, and it's 210 00:13:06,480 - > 00:13:08,240 not going away anytime soon. 211 00:13:08,240 - > 00:13:12,720 So you need to be asking about authenticity testing, not just 212 00:13:12,720 - > 00:13:13,519 identity testing. 213 00:13:13,519 - > 00:13:17,039 That I think is the big issue that people don't really 214 00:13:17,039 - > 00:13:18,000 realize. 215 00:13:18,879 - > 00:13:19,360 Tina Maddock: Yeah. 216 00:13:19,679 - > 00:13:20,399 Deleo de Leonardis: Yeah, go ahead. 217 00:13:20,399 - > 00:13:22,480 So I was about to go into white labeling, but but go ahead. 218 00:13:22,799 - > 00:13:25,519 Tina Maddock: Yeah, we I want to get there for sure, but I I 219 00:13:25,519 - > 00:13:28,879 just want to go back because we talked at the beginning of this, 220 00:13:28,879 - > 00:13:32,559 that there is a much higher margin for the store. 221 00:13:32,559 - > 00:13:37,440 And that's part of why they do private label white label 222 00:13:37,440 - > 00:13:38,000 programs. 223 00:13:38,000 - > 00:13:42,720 And because there's a higher margin and there are higher 224 00:13:42,720 - > 00:13:47,039 stakes involved, I think there's room for people to invest in 225 00:13:47,039 - > 00:13:52,559 testing or to require from a manufacturer or supplier that 226 00:13:52,559 - > 00:13:53,519 there's testing. 227 00:13:53,519 - > 00:13:56,639 I think there's room for that, especially in a private label 228 00:13:56,639 - > 00:13:58,080 white label product. 229 00:13:59,120 - > 00:14:00,559 Deleo de Leonardis: It's not that there is room. 230 00:14:00,559 - > 00:14:02,399 There has to be room. 231 00:14:02,399 - > 00:14:02,960 Yeah. 232 00:14:02,960 - > 00:14:05,039 That's that's that's the kicker. 233 00:14:05,039 - > 00:14:08,480 Again, people will say, Well, I received the documentation, 234 00:14:08,480 - > 00:14:10,559 I've got the certificate of analysis. 235 00:14:10,559 - > 00:14:13,039 And again, you know, it's only as good as the paper it's 236 00:14:13,039 - > 00:14:13,679 written on. 237 00:14:13,679 - > 00:14:16,960 These things can be manipulated, they can be forged, 238 00:14:16,960 - > 00:14:20,720 and you're saying that's all I need, or just verbally, yep, 239 00:14:20,720 - > 00:14:22,960 yep, yep, it's passed all the tests. 240 00:14:22,960 - > 00:14:26,559 And and the smaller retailers, because they don't have 241 00:14:26,559 - > 00:14:29,679 leverage, say we can't, you know, force somebody. 242 00:14:29,679 - > 00:14:32,559 We're already limited in the choice of suppliers we can go to 243 00:14:32,559 - > 00:14:34,799 for private label, and we'll talk about the white label 244 00:14:34,799 - > 00:14:36,080 opportunity in a second. 245 00:14:36,080 - > 00:14:38,480 And now I'm gonna say you need to show, you know, yeah, you 246 00:14:38,480 - > 00:14:41,519 need a I'm I'm gonna ask you to do an audit, I need to see you 247 00:14:41,519 - > 00:14:43,360 know, this type of testing you're not doing today. 248 00:14:43,360 - > 00:14:45,759 You know, they're just gonna go to West Felipe, right? 249 00:14:45,759 - > 00:14:47,200 They're gonna walk away. 250 00:14:47,200 - > 00:14:50,480 And maybe that's a good thing, right? 251 00:14:50,480 - > 00:14:57,759 If they walk away, but uh white labeling is is a great uh 252 00:14:57,759 - > 00:15:03,440 opportunity and it's a great um choice, I think, for some 253 00:15:03,440 - > 00:15:06,879 retailers to make versus private labeling, because it's kind of 254 00:15:06,879 - > 00:15:10,399 an easy and affordable way for the small retailer to offer 255 00:15:10,399 - > 00:15:13,759 their own products without having to invest in like product 256 00:15:13,759 - > 00:15:16,799 development or or anything else, uh, because the product, 257 00:15:16,799 - > 00:15:18,159 as you know, already exists. 258 00:15:18,159 - > 00:15:22,159 It's generic, it's pre-made, it's sold to to many other 259 00:15:22,159 - > 00:15:25,279 retailers potentially under different brand names. 260 00:15:25,279 - > 00:15:27,759 Uh or it could be the same brand name, but it would be you 261 00:15:27,759 - > 00:15:29,279 know unique to your geography. 262 00:15:29,279 - > 00:15:32,480 So they make it so that it is you know private label like 263 00:15:32,480 - > 00:15:36,799 product, and then you know either add your logo or whatever 264 00:15:36,799 - > 00:15:39,759 name that you've chosen or they've chosen, and you go to 265 00:15:39,759 - > 00:15:40,080 market. 266 00:15:40,080 - > 00:15:42,080 And that's you know, yeah, it's easy. 267 00:15:42,399 - > 00:15:43,759 Tina Maddock: Let's talk a little bit about. 268 00:15:43,759 - > 00:15:47,039 I know you're identifying some of the differences, but the big 269 00:15:47,039 - > 00:15:49,919 difference between private label and white label. 270 00:15:51,440 - > 00:15:54,159 Deleo de Leonardis: Well, it is the the fact that private label 271 00:15:54,159 - > 00:15:55,679 is your brand. 272 00:15:55,679 - > 00:16:00,960 So you have uh developed the product, the spec, the standard, 273 00:16:00,960 - > 00:16:02,559 your brand standard. 274 00:16:02,559 - > 00:16:08,960 You are actually providing like a recipe to the manufacturer, 275 00:16:08,960 - > 00:16:12,159 or you work with the manufacturer to develop the 276 00:16:12,159 - > 00:16:14,799 recipe, the formulation, whatever it is. 277 00:16:14,799 - > 00:16:16,399 It is absolutely yours. 278 00:16:16,399 - > 00:16:20,240 And so all of the risk is yours, and the cost is yours 279 00:16:20,240 - > 00:16:22,480 because it's more expensive to do private label than it is to 280 00:16:22,480 - > 00:16:23,440 do white label. 281 00:16:23,440 - > 00:16:27,600 Again, a white label because it's it is it exists already, 282 00:16:27,600 - > 00:16:30,799 the manufacturer makes this, they offer it to many different 283 00:16:30,799 - > 00:16:33,200 customers uh under different names. 284 00:16:33,200 - > 00:16:37,279 It's you know, it's one formulation and it's easier when 285 00:16:37,279 - > 00:16:40,720 you're asking them to start to bring in you know new 286 00:16:40,720 - > 00:16:43,120 ingredients, different ingredients, maybe a different 287 00:16:43,120 - > 00:16:46,879 uh you know, lid than they're using for everybody else. 288 00:16:46,879 - > 00:16:50,000 Yeah, you want, you know, just something to make it unique, 289 00:16:50,000 - > 00:16:51,679 that you know, costs money. 290 00:16:51,679 - > 00:16:55,200 So the advantage for white labeling for for a small 291 00:16:55,200 - > 00:16:57,519 retailer is the speed and cost, right? 292 00:16:57,519 - > 00:17:01,840 It's it's fast, it's simple, it's it's low risk apparently, 293 00:17:01,840 - > 00:17:03,279 but we'll get to that in a second. 294 00:17:03,279 - > 00:17:08,640 But the trade-off is control and differentiation, because uh 295 00:17:08,640 - > 00:17:11,519 the same product being on multiple shelves of the 296 00:17:11,519 - > 00:17:14,079 different brands, you don't always know where it came from 297 00:17:14,079 - > 00:17:17,920 or how consistent the quality is, or whether it would have met 298 00:17:17,920 - > 00:17:20,880 your brand standards if you had developed brand standards, 299 00:17:20,880 - > 00:17:25,200 because they know no exclusivity equals no control, really at 300 00:17:25,200 - > 00:17:26,160 the end of the day, right? 301 00:17:26,160 - > 00:17:29,839 So if the underlying formulation changes at any point 302 00:17:29,839 - > 00:17:33,200 or varies between batches, you know, the retailer wouldn't even 303 00:17:33,200 - > 00:17:35,440 be aware of it until a problem arises. 304 00:17:36,079 - > 00:17:38,000 Tina Maddock: Yeah, and I'm gonna say that most of the 305 00:17:38,000 - > 00:17:41,839 smaller retailers are going white label versus private 306 00:17:41,839 - > 00:17:42,000 label. 307 00:17:42,240 - > 00:17:42,960 Deleo de Leonardis: Yeah, it makes sense. 308 00:17:42,960 - > 00:17:44,240 It makes sense, right? 309 00:17:44,240 - > 00:17:46,799 It's it's a big investment to go private label. 310 00:17:46,799 - > 00:17:49,200 And like I said at the beginning, your options are 311 00:17:49,200 - > 00:17:53,440 really limited, you know, to find there's I know it very, 312 00:17:53,440 - > 00:17:56,880 very well, a retailer here in Canada with 26 stores, and they 313 00:17:56,880 - > 00:17:59,359 have trouble finding private label manufacturers. 314 00:17:59,359 - > 00:18:02,000 So imagine, you know, if you've got one or two stores. 315 00:18:02,480 - > 00:18:06,559 Tina Maddock: Yeah, and I'm gonna say that there's reduced 316 00:18:06,559 - > 00:18:09,039 risk, like on paper, probably, right? 317 00:18:09,039 - > 00:18:12,160 With going white label, but there's still risk of that 318 00:18:12,160 - > 00:18:16,880 erosion of trust, going white label, that you have to be able 319 00:18:16,880 - > 00:18:18,559 to trust the manufacturer there. 320 00:18:18,559 - > 00:18:22,319 So talk to us a little bit about how testing, third-party 321 00:18:22,319 - > 00:18:25,680 testing products, even a white label, can be such a 322 00:18:25,680 - > 00:18:26,640 differentiator. 323 00:18:27,920 - > 00:18:30,559 Deleo de Leonardis: Well, what's really interesting actually for 324 00:18:30,559 - > 00:18:32,079 a smaller retailer. 325 00:18:32,079 - > 00:18:35,759 So I'll when I speak to the bigger retailers and we talk 326 00:18:35,759 - > 00:18:39,039 about doing authenticity testing, they're always talking 327 00:18:39,039 - > 00:18:42,799 about, you know, you know, making the manufacturer pay for 328 00:18:42,799 - > 00:18:43,200 the testing. 329 00:18:43,200 - > 00:18:46,160 So they pass that cost on to the supplier. 330 00:18:46,160 - > 00:18:49,920 The small retailer, again, in lack of leverage, probably 331 00:18:49,920 - > 00:18:50,880 wouldn't be able to do that. 332 00:18:50,880 - > 00:18:53,839 But that's actually not a bad thing because I was saying at 333 00:18:53,839 - > 00:18:56,480 the beginning, you know, the cost is relatively inexpensive 334 00:18:56,480 - > 00:18:57,839 to test a product. 335 00:18:57,839 - > 00:19:02,079 And if you're doing it before you even launch the product, 336 00:19:02,079 - > 00:19:06,559 which was the topic of my of my uh talk at uh at the Soho Whites 337 00:19:06,559 - > 00:19:09,519 Bowl, was doing it at the procurement stage, not 338 00:19:09,519 - > 00:19:12,160 necessarily the way everybody does it today, is you know, when 339 00:19:12,160 - > 00:19:15,359 the product's already in supply chain, it's already on shelf, 340 00:19:15,359 - > 00:19:17,920 and now you're you've if you find something, it's a problem, 341 00:19:17,920 - > 00:19:20,480 and you're doing recalls and it's crisis management. 342 00:19:20,480 - > 00:19:23,759 If you're doing it at the beginning, so if you're uh 343 00:19:23,759 - > 00:19:27,599 interviewing, you know, you're you're taking some uh bids maybe 344 00:19:27,599 - > 00:19:31,119 from different uh white label manufacturers to do a product 345 00:19:31,119 - > 00:19:34,000 for you, because there's if it's white label, you can ask 346 00:19:34,000 - > 00:19:37,200 several different uh suppliers, uh again, because you're not 347 00:19:37,200 - > 00:19:39,119 asking for something unique to you. 348 00:19:39,119 - > 00:19:44,000 If you're not gonna ask them to pay for the testing and you 349 00:19:44,000 - > 00:19:47,519 test it yourself, you have an advantage over the retailers who 350 00:19:47,519 - > 00:19:52,240 are asking the supplier to do the testing, to send samples to 351 00:19:52,240 - > 00:19:53,920 durity out here, for example. 352 00:19:53,920 - > 00:19:56,880 Because, you know, if they know you're gonna be testing the 353 00:19:56,880 - > 00:20:00,400 product, chances are they're gonna send a pristine sample, or 354 00:20:00,400 - > 00:20:02,240 they're really, you know, not bright. 355 00:20:02,240 - > 00:20:05,839 So, you know, then then you know you've got, okay, well, 356 00:20:05,839 - > 00:20:08,799 I've got this sample is good, and maybe you know, the first 357 00:20:08,799 - > 00:20:12,000 few batches that I get or the first few orders that I put in 358 00:20:12,000 - > 00:20:14,720 are gonna be good, but you start to wonder whether or not that, 359 00:20:14,720 - > 00:20:17,920 you know, over time, you know, that quality starts to slip and 360 00:20:17,920 - > 00:20:21,039 they start to dilute or or whatever to make up, you know, 361 00:20:21,039 - > 00:20:22,400 whatever's the costs. 362 00:20:22,400 - > 00:20:26,799 But if you are testing it yourself without telling them, 363 00:20:26,799 - > 00:20:31,039 you can find things that right away and make a decision right 364 00:20:31,039 - > 00:20:31,519 away. 365 00:20:31,519 - > 00:20:37,200 Again, for a minimal cost, you know I can trust this supplier. 366 00:20:37,200 - > 00:20:39,680 At least today they're doing all the right things. 367 00:20:39,680 - > 00:20:42,559 You would want to do random testing through a, you know, you 368 00:20:42,559 - > 00:20:42,960 never know. 369 00:20:42,960 - > 00:20:46,720 People change in companies, pressures change in companies, 370 00:20:46,720 - > 00:20:49,759 they decide that they want to, you know, substitute something, 371 00:20:49,759 - > 00:20:53,759 dilute something, and and this happens very, very frequently. 372 00:20:53,759 - > 00:20:57,680 You know, once once they've been able to, not everybody, but 373 00:20:57,680 - > 00:21:00,480 once they've secured the business, then it's easy to just 374 00:21:00,480 - > 00:21:03,599 say, you know, just you know, claw back some of that cost that 375 00:21:03,599 - > 00:21:06,079 I gave them to secure the business up front. 376 00:21:06,079 - > 00:21:09,519 Um, but that is you know one of the things that's a plus for a 377 00:21:09,519 - > 00:21:10,160 small retailer. 378 00:21:10,160 - > 00:21:12,240 If you pay for your own testing, they have no idea. 379 00:21:12,240 - > 00:21:14,559 So you're going to really be able to see what they're sending 380 00:21:14,559 - > 00:21:15,599 you right from the beginning. 381 00:21:15,599 - > 00:21:18,559 Are these people that I should be like putting a big X through 382 00:21:18,559 - > 00:21:22,240 because they're cutting corners and lying to me? 383 00:21:22,640 - > 00:21:25,680 Tina Maddock: Yeah, well, and and think about it this way you 384 00:21:25,680 - > 00:21:28,799 don't have to have a white label product to do this. 385 00:21:29,200 - > 00:21:30,079 Deleo de Leonardis: This could be anything. 386 00:21:30,079 - > 00:21:32,640 Oh, yeah, anything, absolutely. 387 00:21:32,640 - > 00:21:36,160 I mean, yeah, we we're talking to people about everything uh 388 00:21:36,160 - > 00:21:37,200 all the time, right? 389 00:21:37,200 - > 00:21:40,880 It's it is scary, as I mentioned, because even the big 390 00:21:40,880 - > 00:21:44,400 brands out there that aren't retailers, the big brands are 391 00:21:44,400 - > 00:21:45,759 dependent on others. 392 00:21:45,759 - > 00:21:49,519 And you know, one of the things I spoke about is you know, this 393 00:21:49,519 - > 00:21:52,400 has existed forever and it will continue to exist forever, this 394 00:21:52,400 - > 00:21:57,279 this you know economically motivated food fraud, because 395 00:21:57,279 - > 00:21:59,599 the supply chain, you know, there's still supply chain 396 00:21:59,599 - > 00:21:59,759 issues. 397 00:21:59,759 - > 00:22:03,759 We knew we became very conscious of supply chain issues 398 00:22:03,759 - > 00:22:06,880 during COVID when everything was hard to get. 399 00:22:06,880 - > 00:22:08,799 But that's that's constant. 400 00:22:08,799 - > 00:22:12,559 You know, maybe it's it exacerbated the situation, but 401 00:22:12,559 - > 00:22:15,839 you know, there will always be issues, unfortunately, whether 402 00:22:15,839 - > 00:22:18,720 it's geopolitical, like I don't think we're ever going to be in 403 00:22:18,720 - > 00:22:22,880 a world without war, without conflict, uh, and and it's hard 404 00:22:22,880 - > 00:22:26,160 to get ingredients from countries where things like that 405 00:22:26,160 - > 00:22:28,799 are happening for climate change, you know, whether you 406 00:22:28,799 - > 00:22:29,839 believe it exists or not. 407 00:22:29,839 - > 00:22:32,880 There are droughts and then there are you know flooding and 408 00:22:32,880 - > 00:22:35,039 a lot more, you know, effects on crops. 409 00:22:35,039 - > 00:22:37,119 People can't get things where they used to get them. 410 00:22:37,119 - > 00:22:41,359 So they're being forced to go to use the climate that they've 411 00:22:41,359 - > 00:22:42,640 never gone to before. 412 00:22:42,640 - > 00:22:45,839 And it is, you're untested, untried, and you're you're you 413 00:22:45,839 - > 00:22:48,319 know crossing your fingers and hoping, well, don't cross your 414 00:22:48,319 - > 00:22:48,960 bankers. 415 00:22:48,960 - > 00:22:51,599 That's scientific proof. 416 00:22:51,599 - > 00:22:57,200 Because everything else, audits are audits about the facility. 417 00:22:57,200 - > 00:23:00,799 Good manufacturing practices are making sure that the 418 00:23:00,799 - > 00:23:05,039 facility is in good shape, it's not testing the product, right? 419 00:23:05,039 - > 00:23:07,200 And then you go, well, I'm doing an identity test. 420 00:23:07,200 - > 00:23:09,920 Well, yeah, an identity test won't necessarily tell you what 421 00:23:09,920 - > 00:23:12,880 else is in the product, it's not a purity test. 422 00:23:12,880 - > 00:23:16,400 So these are the things that it's it's it's getting people to 423 00:23:16,400 - > 00:23:21,279 to realize that you need to do more than what you think you 424 00:23:21,279 - > 00:23:24,240 need to do, you know, from a regulatory compliance point of 425 00:23:24,240 - > 00:23:26,480 view, and even just peace of mind. 426 00:23:27,200 - > 00:23:30,559 Tina Maddock: Yeah, and this is a great point about people are 427 00:23:30,559 - > 00:23:35,599 always asking, how do I evaluate a product or a manufacturer 428 00:23:35,599 - > 00:23:38,880 before or a brand before I bring them into my school? 429 00:23:38,880 - > 00:23:40,880 How do I make sure? 430 00:23:40,880 - > 00:23:44,319 Um, what are what's the checklist that I should be going 431 00:23:44,319 - > 00:23:44,640 down? 432 00:23:44,640 - > 00:23:50,799 I love for um manufacturers or brands to provide, hey, we do 433 00:23:50,799 - > 00:23:54,559 third-party testing, here's what it looks like, here's our 434 00:23:54,559 - > 00:23:56,559 regular routine around it. 435 00:23:56,559 - > 00:24:00,799 But if if you really want to go that extra mile to ensure that 436 00:24:00,799 - > 00:24:04,319 you are giving your customers what they expect that they're 437 00:24:04,319 - > 00:24:07,599 getting, this is a perfect opportunity to just test that 438 00:24:07,599 - > 00:24:09,680 brand before it comes in your store. 439 00:24:11,119 - > 00:24:13,200 Deleo de Leonardis: And you know, you know, people are doing 440 00:24:13,200 - > 00:24:16,799 it more and more because as they're starting to realize, and 441 00:24:16,799 - > 00:24:20,480 you know what, and I think the small, the small companies want 442 00:24:20,480 - > 00:24:21,839 to prove it even more. 443 00:24:21,839 - > 00:24:25,680 You know, I think that the big retailers talk about trust uh 444 00:24:25,680 - > 00:24:30,160 all the time, but um small retailers can actually prove it. 445 00:24:30,160 - > 00:24:32,400 It's not just you know, it's not just words. 446 00:24:32,400 - > 00:24:35,839 Um and again, when you verify that you know what's in your 447 00:24:35,839 - > 00:24:38,640 product or what's on the label is actually your product, you're 448 00:24:38,640 - > 00:24:41,440 actually saying to your customers, we know exactly 449 00:24:41,440 - > 00:24:45,039 what's in this, that we know what we're selling, and we've 450 00:24:45,039 - > 00:24:47,680 got the data, the scientific data to back it up. 451 00:24:47,680 - > 00:24:50,880 And I think that's you know, that builds confidence uh in 452 00:24:50,880 - > 00:24:53,039 your in your client's now if they know that. 453 00:24:53,039 - > 00:24:57,279 And if you use certification, so you know, I know Brian, uh 454 00:24:57,279 - > 00:25:02,640 True Race, was on your podcast uh recently, and they used our 455 00:25:02,640 - > 00:25:07,279 certification, our uh certified authentic uh certification mark 456 00:25:07,279 - > 00:25:08,720 on their probiotics. 457 00:25:08,720 - > 00:25:12,319 And it is they want to shout us on the rooftops that they go 458 00:25:12,319 - > 00:25:15,759 over and above what they need to be doing from a regulatory 459 00:25:15,759 - > 00:25:19,759 perspective to make sure that you know their probiotics are 460 00:25:19,759 - > 00:25:20,799 what they stay there. 461 00:25:21,519 - > 00:25:26,319 Tina Maddock: Yeah, and so I've seen some really great um brands 462 00:25:26,319 - > 00:25:28,079 invest up front. 463 00:25:28,079 - > 00:25:31,440 And we've even had a conversation on this podcast 464 00:25:31,440 - > 00:25:35,519 where it's like, hey, we source ingredients just like you were 465 00:25:35,519 - > 00:25:39,359 talking about, and it comes with a certification, a certificate 466 00:25:39,359 - > 00:25:41,599 of authenticity right in the door. 467 00:25:41,599 - > 00:25:44,799 And their motto is trust but verify. 468 00:25:44,799 - > 00:25:48,480 We love that we have this certificate of authenticity, but 469 00:25:48,480 - > 00:25:51,920 then we put it through our lab first to make sure that what 470 00:25:51,920 - > 00:25:55,519 we're putting in the product ends up being what we want to be 471 00:25:55,519 - > 00:25:56,240 in the product. 472 00:25:56,240 - > 00:26:00,240 So they have an extra layer of trust but verify. 473 00:26:00,240 - > 00:26:04,960 And I think if if you find brands who are willing to invest 474 00:26:04,960 - > 00:26:09,440 like that, and you also are are having a stake in that as well 475 00:26:09,440 - > 00:26:12,319 because you're representing to customers every day. 476 00:26:12,319 - > 00:26:15,039 And this is where I think some of the bigger chains sort of get 477 00:26:15,039 - > 00:26:19,039 off base because they are not the people who are making the 478 00:26:19,039 - > 00:26:21,920 decisions and have the purse strings, are not the people who 479 00:26:21,920 - > 00:26:29,039 are talking to the coach of the Little League team down the 480 00:26:29,039 - > 00:26:29,440 street. 481 00:26:29,440 - > 00:26:33,359 You know, you guys are the independent retailers, have 482 00:26:33,359 - > 00:26:36,640 relationships in that community and they have to look customers 483 00:26:36,640 - > 00:26:42,240 face face to face and say, I promise that what we're offering 484 00:26:42,240 - > 00:26:49,200 to you passes all of the tests and is actually what's in the 485 00:26:49,200 - > 00:26:53,759 bottle that and we're making recommendations to you so you 486 00:26:53,759 - > 00:26:54,799 can trust us. 487 00:26:54,799 - > 00:27:00,079 It's you know, that that old saying around what's in a name. 488 00:27:00,079 - > 00:27:03,119 And if you lose your name, you can lose everything. 489 00:27:03,680 - > 00:27:05,759 Deleo de Leonardis: So it is reputational risk. 490 00:27:05,759 - > 00:27:07,359 You said it, I mean, it's big. 491 00:27:07,359 - > 00:27:07,920 Yeah. 492 00:27:07,920 - > 00:27:12,799 The reputational risk is something you cannot afford, you 493 00:27:12,799 - > 00:27:13,440 know, to take. 494 00:27:13,440 - > 00:27:18,079 You can't it's you said it can take years to build up that 495 00:27:18,079 - > 00:27:21,839 brand, and then it takes minutes, seconds, you know, for 496 00:27:21,839 - > 00:27:23,039 that to just dissolve. 497 00:27:23,039 - > 00:27:25,519 And it may not come back, you just never know. 498 00:27:25,519 - > 00:27:28,640 Um, and I think that what you're describing can be part of 499 00:27:28,640 - > 00:27:29,599 a brand story. 500 00:27:29,599 - > 00:27:32,960 You know, it's not just compliance anymore, it becomes a 501 00:27:32,960 - > 00:27:34,480 brand story that sets you apart. 502 00:27:34,480 - > 00:27:36,559 And exactly what you were saying. 503 00:27:36,559 - > 00:27:41,519 You're able to tell your clients, your customers, that 504 00:27:41,519 - > 00:27:45,119 you know, you go that extra distance is that you take 505 00:27:45,119 - > 00:27:48,240 quality, you know, seriously, but personally. 506 00:27:48,240 - > 00:27:52,480 That's what I think you know differentiates you from, you 507 00:27:52,480 - > 00:27:54,319 know, just big conglomerates. 508 00:27:55,200 - > 00:27:57,440 Tina Maddock: Well, also, it's just such a differentiator in 509 00:27:57,440 - > 00:28:00,960 the market because you can go on Amazon and buy just about 510 00:28:00,960 - > 00:28:01,440 anything. 511 00:28:01,440 - > 00:28:04,400 There's a couple of reasons that people still come to 512 00:28:04,400 - > 00:28:05,920 independent retailers. 513 00:28:05,920 - > 00:28:11,039 First is because um there's a consultation that happens 514 00:28:11,039 - > 00:28:13,759 generally where they're like, I've got this and I've heard 515 00:28:13,759 - > 00:28:15,440 about this thing, but I don't know. 516 00:28:15,440 - > 00:28:19,599 And they're asking you questions around is this the 517 00:28:19,599 - > 00:28:20,240 right choice? 518 00:28:20,240 - > 00:28:22,079 Um am I looking at everything? 519 00:28:22,079 - > 00:28:23,680 And you're helping people through that. 520 00:28:23,680 - > 00:28:26,000 They're not getting that on Amazon right now. 521 00:28:26,000 - > 00:28:31,680 The other piece is Amazon will let anyone sell anything on 522 00:28:31,680 - > 00:28:32,960 their platform. 523 00:28:32,960 - > 00:28:36,640 And you can really differentiate yourself by 524 00:28:36,640 - > 00:28:43,039 talking about we only bring trusted people who have the 525 00:28:43,039 - > 00:28:45,759 right the ingredients that are on the label in there. 526 00:28:45,759 - > 00:28:48,799 We're not offering you items with heavy metals. 527 00:28:48,799 - > 00:28:53,519 Like saying that out loud is a huge differentiation for whether 528 00:28:53,519 - > 00:28:57,119 or not people trust and come to you over and over again versus 529 00:28:57,119 - > 00:28:58,319 whatever competitor. 530 00:28:58,319 - > 00:29:02,400 It might be down the street, it might be online, but they don't 531 00:29:02,400 - > 00:29:05,759 have to wonder because here you go, here are all the 532 00:29:05,759 - > 00:29:08,799 certifications, here's the testing that gets done. 533 00:29:08,799 - > 00:29:11,759 And that imbues trust. 534 00:29:12,480 - > 00:29:14,319 Deleo de Leonardis: Hugely, hugely. 535 00:29:14,319 - > 00:29:17,279 Because, you know, I think I don't think people are getting 536 00:29:17,279 - > 00:29:17,839 wary now. 537 00:29:17,839 - > 00:29:22,000 There's enough media attention around, you know, what is what 538 00:29:22,000 - > 00:29:24,319 has happened on Amazon, what's been found, whatever. 539 00:29:24,319 - > 00:29:25,920 But they're getting they're getting wiser too, right? 540 00:29:25,920 - > 00:29:28,559 They're starting to get into testing in certain areas, but 541 00:29:28,559 - > 00:29:29,920 it's still not 100%. 542 00:29:29,920 - > 00:29:34,559 Um, but it is a chance for the smaller retailers, like you 543 00:29:34,559 - > 00:29:37,519 said, they've already they've already got a relationship built 544 00:29:37,519 - > 00:29:41,440 with with uh their customers, again, because they're providing 545 00:29:41,440 - > 00:29:45,279 counsel and they're there for advice. 546 00:29:45,279 - > 00:29:49,039 And uh and they're carrying brands that a lot of the big 547 00:29:49,039 - > 00:29:50,559 chains don't carry, right? 548 00:29:50,559 - > 00:29:53,119 Because they are going to the ones that you know they're doing 549 00:29:53,119 - > 00:29:56,480 some homework on and they like the story and the brand story. 550 00:29:56,480 - > 00:29:59,839 But again, you've got to, you know, buyer beware. 551 00:29:59,839 - > 00:30:01,279 It it really is. 552 00:30:01,279 - > 00:30:04,799 It can be a great facade that the story sounds great and 553 00:30:04,799 - > 00:30:06,000 they're saying all the right things. 554 00:30:06,000 - > 00:30:08,319 You just don't know what's happening behind the scenes. 555 00:30:08,319 - > 00:30:11,519 And I've I've had, you know, we do, I know we're talking to 556 00:30:11,519 - > 00:30:13,920 supplements, but you know, we also do food and beverage, too. 557 00:30:13,920 - > 00:30:18,319 I've had I've had some clients tell me that like an old boy or 558 00:30:18,319 - > 00:30:19,039 whatever. 559 00:30:19,039 - > 00:30:22,400 They they really lean on, oh, we've had this relationship with 560 00:30:22,400 - > 00:30:25,440 this, you know, with the manufacturer for years and 561 00:30:25,440 - > 00:30:28,319 years, and you know, they're they went to each other's 562 00:30:28,319 - > 00:30:30,640 children's weddings, and oh, you know, what all this that's 563 00:30:30,640 - > 00:30:32,559 lovely, you know, that's a lovely story. 564 00:30:32,559 - > 00:30:36,000 Yeah, but you don't know what's happening down the line. 565 00:30:36,000 - > 00:30:38,799 You might be, you know, CEO, the CEO, they're all doing the 566 00:30:38,799 - > 00:30:41,279 weddings or whatever, but down, you know, there's pressure to 567 00:30:41,279 - > 00:30:44,000 deliver results, there's pressure to deliver margins, 568 00:30:44,000 - > 00:30:46,880 there's pressure, you don't know what decisions are being made. 569 00:30:46,880 - > 00:30:49,839 But the C me the CEO may not even be aware, you know, that 570 00:30:49,839 - > 00:30:53,519 it's just or they're just smiling and saying everything's 571 00:30:53,519 - > 00:30:53,839 great. 572 00:30:53,839 - > 00:30:56,240 Because that's just it's reality, you know. 573 00:30:56,240 - > 00:30:59,519 Unfortunately, I wish everyone took the higher road and didn't 574 00:30:59,519 - > 00:31:02,319 do this, but then we wouldn't have any reason to exist. 575 00:31:03,119 - > 00:31:06,079 Tina Maddock: Well, here's the other part of that that we've 576 00:31:06,079 - > 00:31:09,440 seen several times, and people are gonna think of brands as 577 00:31:09,440 - > 00:31:12,960 soon as I talk about this, but the different formulations, and 578 00:31:12,960 - > 00:31:18,240 sometimes, you know, when when brands go mass market, they will 579 00:31:18,240 - > 00:31:22,319 change their formulation and it says it on the label. 580 00:31:22,319 - > 00:31:26,799 But think about when when businesses are acquired, there's 581 00:31:26,799 - > 00:31:27,759 a new mandate. 582 00:31:27,759 - > 00:31:30,079 They don't always stick to the values. 583 00:31:30,079 - > 00:31:33,839 When there's an acquisition, the acquisition has to pay off 584 00:31:33,839 - > 00:31:34,559 in the end. 585 00:31:34,559 - > 00:31:38,160 And maybe it's because the brand is amazing and they can 586 00:31:38,160 - > 00:31:40,960 build on that story that's been there and they stick to the 587 00:31:40,960 - > 00:31:41,440 values. 588 00:31:41,440 - > 00:31:43,440 I wish that's how it always happened. 589 00:31:43,440 - > 00:31:47,359 But many times it's like, great, you have become a trusted 590 00:31:47,359 - > 00:31:48,240 brand in the market. 591 00:31:48,240 - > 00:31:50,000 How can we cut costs? 592 00:31:50,000 - > 00:31:52,079 And what do we now eliminate? 593 00:31:52,079 - > 00:31:55,519 And sometimes that's on the label and sometimes it's not. 594 00:31:55,519 - > 00:31:59,680 And so I think again, buyer beware when there are things 595 00:31:59,680 - > 00:32:02,960 that are starting to change structurally in a company, that 596 00:32:02,960 - > 00:32:07,039 this is an opportunity for people to say, hey, maybe we 597 00:32:07,039 - > 00:32:09,839 should have some testing on this product to make sure that it's 598 00:32:09,839 - > 00:32:13,039 still the same that we've always offered to people. 599 00:32:13,039 - > 00:32:18,160 And again, this is a story to tell your customers because 600 00:32:18,160 - > 00:32:21,519 every time that you make an investment like this, you are 601 00:32:21,519 - > 00:32:25,440 proving to your customers again that you are the one that can be 602 00:32:25,440 - > 00:32:26,000 trusted. 603 00:32:26,000 - > 00:32:28,880 There they don't have to stay loyal to a brand. 604 00:32:28,880 - > 00:32:32,640 You're the gatekeeper that is helping them not have to worry 605 00:32:32,640 - > 00:32:34,000 about this or think about it. 606 00:32:34,000 - > 00:32:37,279 So that should be communicated every time you've got something 607 00:32:37,279 - > 00:32:37,680 going on. 608 00:32:37,680 - > 00:32:40,160 And sometimes it's like, hey, great news. 609 00:32:40,160 - > 00:32:42,079 It's still the same formula. 610 00:32:43,759 - > 00:32:45,279 Deleo de Leonardis: Happy to say, no change. 611 00:32:45,279 - > 00:32:46,079 Yeah, right. 612 00:32:46,079 - > 00:32:46,720 Yeah. 613 00:32:46,720 - > 00:32:47,200 Yeah. 614 00:32:47,200 - > 00:32:48,000 No, I agree. 615 00:32:48,000 - > 00:32:48,559 I agree. 616 00:32:48,559 - > 00:32:52,480 And it is one of the slides in my presentation was, you know, 617 00:32:52,480 - > 00:32:55,599 some of the red flags to look for, you know, and you've you've 618 00:32:55,599 - > 00:32:58,079 said a few, like if the company's recently been acquired 619 00:32:58,079 - > 00:32:58,720 or whatever. 620 00:32:58,720 - > 00:33:00,960 But you know, there are things and they're common sense, you 621 00:33:00,960 - > 00:33:04,079 know, if there's spidey senses going on for some reason, then 622 00:33:04,079 - > 00:33:07,200 that's probably a reason for you to to do your own testing. 623 00:33:07,200 - > 00:33:12,000 And again, like I said, it's it's not it's it's not uh uh an 624 00:33:12,000 - > 00:33:15,119 expensive thing to do at all, and it's peace of mind. 625 00:33:15,119 - > 00:33:19,680 And you know, if if the if you ask the supplier to to do some 626 00:33:19,680 - > 00:33:23,359 testing other than what they're already doing, and they refuse, 627 00:33:23,359 - > 00:33:24,640 that's a red flag. 628 00:33:24,640 - > 00:33:25,519 Yeah. 629 00:33:25,519 - > 00:33:30,160 That to me is again, what do you what do you have to hide? 630 00:33:30,160 - > 00:33:32,160 Well, why don't you do it? 631 00:33:32,480 - > 00:33:34,160 Tina Maddock: Maybe they're already doing it and you didn't 632 00:33:34,160 - > 00:33:37,200 know about it, and then they can just show you the results. 633 00:33:37,200 - > 00:33:41,200 So sometimes that's the case, but the more that retailers are 634 00:33:41,200 - > 00:33:43,519 asking, and I always think about this. 635 00:33:43,519 - > 00:33:47,200 I know that smaller retailers feel like I don't really have 636 00:33:47,200 - > 00:33:51,599 buyer power or influence power or whatever, but the more that 637 00:33:51,599 - > 00:33:54,559 the community starts to talk about these things, ask these 638 00:33:54,559 - > 00:33:58,559 questions, raise their hands, the more power that and 639 00:33:58,559 - > 00:34:02,880 influence that the retailers have because they're binding 640 00:34:02,880 - > 00:34:05,359 together and talking about things that are important to 641 00:34:05,359 - > 00:34:06,240 everyone. 642 00:34:06,720 - > 00:34:08,159 Deleo de Leonardis: No, you're you're bang wrong. 643 00:34:08,159 - > 00:34:13,360 There is unfortunately a subset of the population uh on the 644 00:34:13,360 - > 00:34:16,800 manufacturing side or ingredients acquired side who 645 00:34:16,800 - > 00:34:22,880 are doing um who are doing bad things, and um they don't care. 646 00:34:22,880 - > 00:34:26,320 They're doing it for for all the reasons that we've talked 647 00:34:26,320 - > 00:34:27,199 about already. 648 00:34:27,199 - > 00:34:33,199 And but the minute there's a groundswell of demand for this 649 00:34:33,199 - > 00:34:37,519 information, then they will have to do the right things. 650 00:34:37,519 - > 00:34:40,320 But there are some of them today, and we're very fortunate. 651 00:34:40,320 - > 00:34:43,119 We we're first of all, we're as an organization, we're not 652 00:34:43,119 - > 00:34:46,559 militant, we're not out looking for problems, we're not taking 653 00:34:46,559 - > 00:34:49,280 products off shelves and doing exposes or whatever. 654 00:34:49,280 - > 00:34:51,440 We want to work with people who want to do the right things. 655 00:34:51,440 - > 00:34:55,679 And so those are the proactive companies that are saying we 656 00:34:55,679 - > 00:35:00,880 want to be able to be assured ourselves and assure our clients 657 00:35:00,880 - > 00:35:05,840 or the consumer if it's it's being uh product, that we have 658 00:35:05,840 - > 00:35:09,840 done everything and that we can, you know, give you that 659 00:35:09,840 - > 00:35:11,599 confidence and trust in our product. 660 00:35:11,599 - > 00:35:14,559 Others will be brought there picking and screaming probably, 661 00:35:14,559 - > 00:35:18,880 unfortunately, but it'll take consumers demanding you know, 662 00:35:18,880 - > 00:35:21,199 what is this product really authentic? 663 00:35:21,199 - > 00:35:23,280 Is there anything else in here? 664 00:35:23,280 - > 00:35:29,119 Because one thing that I think scares consumers a lot now is 665 00:35:29,119 - > 00:35:32,320 that we're all really proud of ourselves for reading labels 666 00:35:32,320 - > 00:35:32,480 now. 667 00:35:32,480 - > 00:35:35,599 We didn't used to read labels like 10 years ago, you you 668 00:35:35,599 - > 00:35:39,599 barely go into maybe calories and fat, you know, like that was 669 00:35:39,599 - > 00:35:40,800 all that we really cared about. 670 00:35:40,800 - > 00:35:44,400 Now people are really scrutinizing and studying, and 671 00:35:44,400 - > 00:35:47,440 if it's an ingredient that this wrong, oh my god, what's in it? 672 00:35:47,440 - > 00:35:49,599 And yeah, unpronounceable things. 673 00:35:49,840 - > 00:35:50,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 674 00:35:50,239 - > 00:35:52,400 Deleo de Leonardis: So we're we think we're making informed 675 00:35:52,400 - > 00:35:52,880 choices. 676 00:35:52,880 - > 00:35:55,199 If you still want to buy the thing that's not good for you, 677 00:35:55,199 - > 00:35:56,559 well, you're doing it eyes wide open. 678 00:35:56,559 - > 00:35:59,360 But what if the label is wrong? 679 00:35:59,360 - > 00:36:01,280 You've lost control. 680 00:36:02,000 - > 00:36:02,239 Tina Maddock: Yeah. 681 00:36:02,800 - > 00:36:05,039 Deleo de Leonardis: This is what's scaring consumers because 682 00:36:05,039 - > 00:36:07,440 up until now they thought they were doing the right thing. 683 00:36:07,440 - > 00:36:09,920 I'm going to be an informed consumer and make a decision 684 00:36:09,920 - > 00:36:11,920 based on what I see here because I'm going to be weak. 685 00:36:12,320 - > 00:36:12,400 unknown: Yeah. 686 00:36:12,639 - > 00:36:14,719 Deleo de Leonardis: I'm going to be informed. 687 00:36:14,719 - > 00:36:17,840 And now, if there's something on there, you know, something in 688 00:36:17,840 - > 00:36:19,760 the product that's not on that label, you don't know. 689 00:36:20,239 - > 00:36:20,559 Tina Maddock: Yeah. 690 00:36:20,880 - > 00:36:23,119 Deleo de Leonardis: This is the scary thing we're in today. 691 00:36:23,119 - > 00:36:24,559 We've lost control. 692 00:36:24,559 - > 00:36:29,119 So there's going to be uh, I know, a movement for 693 00:36:29,119 - > 00:36:29,679 authenticity. 694 00:36:29,679 - > 00:36:33,360 And authenticity, the word is, you know, authentic self, and it 695 00:36:33,360 - > 00:36:36,800 was the very mortx word of the year in 2023. 696 00:36:36,800 - > 00:36:40,639 But when it comes to supplements and food and 697 00:36:40,639 - > 00:36:43,199 beverage, authenticity is permanent. 698 00:36:43,199 - > 00:36:45,440 You know, you can't play with that. 699 00:36:45,440 - > 00:36:48,559 You need to make sure that there's nothing else in that 700 00:36:48,559 - > 00:36:49,199 product. 701 00:36:49,199 - > 00:36:52,000 Because even if it's not meant to kill you, it's just in there 702 00:36:52,000 - > 00:36:54,559 to, you know, dilute and you know, it's a filler. 703 00:36:54,559 - > 00:36:58,639 Anything that's not declared on the label could be a food 704 00:36:58,639 - > 00:37:00,000 safety hazard for someone. 705 00:37:00,000 - > 00:37:02,079 It might be an allergen for someone. 706 00:37:02,239 - > 00:37:02,559 Tina Maddock: Yeah. 707 00:37:02,800 - > 00:37:06,000 Deleo de Leonardis: If it's not declared on the label, that 708 00:37:06,000 - > 00:37:07,440 could be a problem for you. 709 00:37:07,920 - > 00:37:10,960 Tina Maddock: Yeah, and as more and more people become aware of 710 00:37:10,960 - > 00:37:14,159 that, and the consumers will hold the retailers accountable 711 00:37:14,159 - > 00:37:14,719 too. 712 00:37:14,719 - > 00:37:18,960 And then the retailers hold the manufacturers accountable, and 713 00:37:18,960 - > 00:37:23,360 then movement takes place where things happen. 714 00:37:23,360 - > 00:37:28,239 Um, but I think the retailers can get ahead of this and put a 715 00:37:28,239 - > 00:37:32,480 stake in the ground and talk about it whenever they're doing 716 00:37:32,480 - > 00:37:32,800 this. 717 00:37:32,800 - > 00:37:38,320 Um, because I think consumers would appreciate realizing that 718 00:37:38,320 - > 00:37:40,800 someone's looking out for their best interest. 719 00:37:40,800 - > 00:37:44,800 And the more that you talk about we do this, bottom line, 720 00:37:44,800 - > 00:37:47,440 we do this, we don't put things on our shelves that don't have 721 00:37:47,440 - > 00:37:50,960 what's in the label and or that have other things that are not 722 00:37:50,960 - > 00:37:55,760 on the label in the jar, then um, the more consumers trust 723 00:37:55,760 - > 00:37:59,599 that they come to you to figure out, okay, what brands do I 724 00:37:59,599 - > 00:38:00,239 trust? 725 00:38:00,239 - > 00:38:06,400 What which product does have the amount of um the ingredient 726 00:38:06,400 - > 00:38:09,360 that I'm looking for in the actual jar? 727 00:38:09,360 - > 00:38:14,159 And so they come to your store, they trust you, they buy from 728 00:38:14,159 - > 00:38:16,639 you, or they trust what's on your shelves. 729 00:38:16,639 - > 00:38:20,639 And so I think the more that they do that, um, just the 730 00:38:20,639 - > 00:38:23,039 better outcome for them in their community. 731 00:38:23,039 - > 00:38:26,400 But take us back because you said something that I thought 732 00:38:26,400 - > 00:38:29,280 was interesting, were red flags. 733 00:38:29,280 - > 00:38:32,159 And of course, we mentioned like there's a change of 734 00:38:32,159 - > 00:38:34,800 leadership or a company gets acquired. 735 00:38:34,800 - > 00:38:38,239 What are the other red flags that you see where you're you 736 00:38:38,239 - > 00:38:41,199 might be like, hmm, interesting? 737 00:38:41,679 - > 00:38:42,559 Deleo de Leonardis: Um, you know what? 738 00:38:42,559 - > 00:38:47,360 It would be um where there's a shortage of product if you know 739 00:38:47,360 - > 00:38:50,159 that you're reading about you know, there's uh problems 740 00:38:50,159 - > 00:38:53,119 getting in radius, like when when the war broke out, 741 00:38:53,119 - > 00:38:56,559 unfortunately still going on with Russia and Ukraine, there 742 00:38:56,559 - > 00:39:00,079 was a shortage of sunflower and sunflower oil. 743 00:39:00,079 - > 00:39:02,800 So when you hear those things and someone's coming to you with 744 00:39:02,800 - > 00:39:06,320 a really great price on sunflower oil, you know, this is 745 00:39:06,320 - > 00:39:10,639 really um so and I'll give you another example. 746 00:39:10,639 - > 00:39:15,280 I think uh during COVID, there was a rush on elderberry. 747 00:39:15,280 - > 00:39:19,280 You know, is reported to be good for the immune system. 748 00:39:19,280 - > 00:39:22,239 There was more apparently this is a fact going here, but 749 00:39:22,239 - > 00:39:25,599 apparently more elderberry sold during COVID than there was raw 750 00:39:25,599 - > 00:39:27,039 material available in the world. 751 00:39:27,039 - > 00:39:32,079 So things that make you go, hmm, isn't usually a red flag, 752 00:39:32,079 - > 00:39:32,400 you know. 753 00:39:32,400 - > 00:39:37,199 So like I said, if someone is is unwilling to test a product, 754 00:39:37,199 - > 00:39:40,639 you know, really adamantly unwilling, saying, nope, I will 755 00:39:40,639 - > 00:39:44,239 not really maybe they're just being idiotic and we have 756 00:39:44,239 - > 00:39:46,880 nothing to hide, but that's just you know, there's a if you 757 00:39:46,880 - > 00:39:48,480 don't have the proof, you don't have the proof. 758 00:39:48,480 - > 00:39:51,679 If there are just, you know, you know there's supply chain 759 00:39:51,679 - > 00:39:54,800 woes in some area, shortages in something. 760 00:39:54,800 - > 00:39:59,760 You need to be maybe just a little bit more uh vigilant to 761 00:39:59,760 - > 00:40:04,239 make sure that that product, because not not everything is is 762 00:40:04,239 - > 00:40:06,480 right for adult creation, you know. 763 00:40:06,480 - > 00:40:09,360 It's an opportunistic crime, right? 764 00:40:09,360 - > 00:40:12,480 And so the fraudsters, the minute there's a shortage of 765 00:40:12,480 - > 00:40:14,960 something, that's where they leap in and they, you know, they 766 00:40:14,960 - > 00:40:17,199 will be able to hear about, and again, I keep talking about 767 00:40:17,199 - > 00:40:19,920 olive oil, but you keep hearing about you know truckloads of 768 00:40:19,920 - > 00:40:22,960 olive oil being stolen, and so that stuff is you know being 769 00:40:22,960 - > 00:40:25,280 diluted, it's being resold and relabeled. 770 00:40:25,280 - > 00:40:27,440 So you just you need to be aware. 771 00:40:27,440 - > 00:40:30,239 If you hear things like that, these are you know, you've got 772 00:40:30,239 - > 00:40:33,599 to ask your suppliers to to provide the proof that they're 773 00:40:33,599 - > 00:40:36,559 phone out one of, you know, and like I say, if you see your 774 00:40:36,559 - > 00:40:39,440 Spidey stands, I can't remember whose audience that was like 775 00:40:39,440 - > 00:40:42,480 making 10, 10, 12 things on my right flag that's and it wasn't 776 00:40:42,480 - > 00:40:45,119 an exhaustive list, you know, if there was somebody in the 777 00:40:45,119 - > 00:40:46,800 audience that wrote about this, but yeah, yeah, yeah. 778 00:40:46,800 - > 00:40:48,559 It's a good one, right? 779 00:40:48,559 - > 00:40:51,599 But you know when something's changed off. 780 00:40:51,599 - > 00:40:55,199 And and the and I think you know, if if your listeners are 781 00:40:55,199 - > 00:40:57,840 going, oh my god, I can't start testing everything in the store, 782 00:40:57,840 - > 00:41:02,400 it's really more you said it yourself, you're choosing what 783 00:41:02,400 - > 00:41:03,199 to bring in. 784 00:41:03,199 - > 00:41:06,480 There's stories you're listening to, brand stories from 785 00:41:06,480 - > 00:41:09,199 some of these manufacturers and suppliers of products that you 786 00:41:09,199 - > 00:41:12,880 say, yeah, I that aligns with my values, that aligns with what I 787 00:41:12,880 - > 00:41:14,639 believe my my customers are looking for. 788 00:41:14,639 - > 00:41:16,239 I bring their products in. 789 00:41:16,239 - > 00:41:18,960 You'll ask them, you know, did you do all of your testing 790 00:41:18,960 - > 00:41:20,480 showing your sleeping, whatever? 791 00:41:20,480 - > 00:41:23,519 And but you don't know at the end of the day, like if they've 792 00:41:23,519 - > 00:41:25,039 really gone through everything. 793 00:41:25,039 - > 00:41:28,159 The more important thing to be testing is anything that is 794 00:41:28,159 - > 00:41:29,360 expensive to you. 795 00:41:29,599 - > 00:41:30,239 Speaker 2: Yeah. 796 00:41:30,719 - > 00:41:32,960 Deleo de Leonardis: Because you can't be testing everything in 797 00:41:32,960 - > 00:41:33,519 the store. 798 00:41:33,519 - > 00:41:36,400 It just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. 799 00:41:36,400 - > 00:41:39,840 And the responsibility is the responsibility of the 800 00:41:39,840 - > 00:41:43,440 manufacturer and the brand owner, but you are the brand 801 00:41:43,440 - > 00:41:44,719 owner, even of a white label. 802 00:41:45,280 - > 00:41:45,440 unknown: Yeah. 803 00:41:45,760 - > 00:41:47,760 Deleo de Leonardis: In the eyes of the consumer, that's your 804 00:41:47,760 - > 00:41:48,079 brand. 805 00:41:48,079 - > 00:41:48,480 Absolutely. 806 00:41:48,480 - > 00:41:52,159 Even if it's you know a stock treatment formula that you know 807 00:41:52,159 - > 00:41:56,400 the manufacturer given to others and other stores with different 808 00:41:56,400 - > 00:41:59,199 brands, you're promoting it as your brand. 809 00:41:59,199 - > 00:42:01,360 So you've got to stand behind it. 810 00:42:01,360 - > 00:42:02,880 And I would say that's priority number one. 811 00:42:02,880 - > 00:42:04,719 I don't want people to listen to this and go, oh my 812 00:42:04,719 - > 00:42:08,159 overwhelming and you know, be testing everything, asking 813 00:42:08,159 - > 00:42:10,239 everybody for proof of this, that, and the other. 814 00:42:10,239 - > 00:42:14,639 You know, some of it you've got to just go with with with your 815 00:42:14,639 - > 00:42:16,239 gut or just trust. 816 00:42:16,239 - > 00:42:19,679 But if it's your brand, that needs to be priority number one. 817 00:42:20,000 - > 00:42:23,280 Tina Maddock: Yeah, there's a lot of trust in this industry 818 00:42:23,280 - > 00:42:26,800 that you you build relationships and partner on trust. 819 00:42:26,800 - > 00:42:30,239 I love asking the manufacturers though, or the brands, like 820 00:42:30,239 - > 00:42:31,679 what testing have you done? 821 00:42:31,679 - > 00:42:34,559 And then they can show you what they're up to. 822 00:42:34,559 - > 00:42:39,039 And many, many of them, especially in this industry that 823 00:42:39,039 - > 00:42:42,880 serve the independent retailers, are absolutely on top 824 00:42:42,880 - > 00:42:43,440 of it. 825 00:42:43,440 - > 00:42:46,000 They are testing the products. 826 00:42:46,000 - > 00:42:49,440 There are such great manufacturers and brands in this 827 00:42:49,440 - > 00:42:54,159 industry that are trustworthy and can provide you with what's 828 00:42:54,159 - > 00:42:56,480 what's going into their bottles. 829 00:42:56,480 - > 00:43:00,159 Um, and then there are others that you might have question 830 00:43:00,159 - > 00:43:00,639 marks about. 831 00:43:00,639 - > 00:43:05,119 And I think specifically in terms of when someone, your 832 00:43:05,119 - > 00:43:10,800 customer has a um is pulling you to make a decision to put 833 00:43:10,800 - > 00:43:14,719 something on your shelf that you haven't heard of, you haven't 834 00:43:14,719 - > 00:43:18,559 worked with that brand before, you ask your peers because I 835 00:43:18,559 - > 00:43:22,480 think this network is just amazing to be able to check 836 00:43:22,480 - > 00:43:23,920 other things out. 837 00:43:23,920 - > 00:43:27,519 If you have a peer group here that you can talk to and be 838 00:43:27,519 - > 00:43:28,800 like, have you heard of this product? 839 00:43:28,800 - > 00:43:30,159 Have you heard of this brand? 840 00:43:30,159 - > 00:43:31,679 What's your experience? 841 00:43:31,679 - > 00:43:32,880 How's that going? 842 00:43:32,880 - > 00:43:37,360 So word of mouth and and peers that you trust are huge for 843 00:43:37,360 - > 00:43:37,679 this. 844 00:43:37,679 - > 00:43:41,360 But but you know, I mean, more and more consumers are coming 845 00:43:41,360 - > 00:43:42,960 into your store with the TikTok. 846 00:43:42,960 - > 00:43:46,239 And they're like, Oh god, yeah, I want this thing. 847 00:43:46,800 - > 00:43:47,280 Deleo de Leonardis: Yeah. 848 00:43:47,280 - > 00:43:48,960 TikToks are the new Dr. 849 00:43:48,960 - > 00:43:51,280 Oz, you know, it's Absolutely. 850 00:43:51,280 - > 00:43:52,559 The latest, greatest. 851 00:43:52,559 - > 00:43:53,760 Yeah, seriously. 852 00:43:53,760 - > 00:43:56,719 But you know, again, when you were saying they they come and 853 00:43:56,719 - > 00:43:59,039 they'll show you the good ones will say, Here's all the testing 854 00:43:59,039 - > 00:43:59,440 I've done. 855 00:43:59,440 - > 00:44:02,880 And It can look it can look very impressive because again, a 856 00:44:02,880 - > 00:44:05,679 lot of the regulatory requirement is the stuff of, you 857 00:44:05,679 - > 00:44:08,320 know, it's it's routine quality testing. 858 00:44:08,320 - > 00:44:10,719 Again, you know, the heavy metal, the pesticide, the 859 00:44:10,719 - > 00:44:13,280 microbial, the pathogen, all of that they'll show you blah blah 860 00:44:13,280 - > 00:44:13,920 blah blah blah blah. 861 00:44:13,920 - > 00:44:17,039 They will, they should have identity tests on it. 862 00:44:17,039 - > 00:44:21,199 And this is where I'm saying, just ask, is that an identity 863 00:44:21,199 - > 00:44:22,880 test or an authenticity test? 864 00:44:22,880 - > 00:44:25,440 And then you'll see right away if they even know what you're 865 00:44:25,440 - > 00:44:26,159 talking about. 866 00:44:26,159 - > 00:44:28,639 They may not even know the difference. 867 00:44:28,639 - > 00:44:32,559 And so it just shows that you're you're aware, you're on 868 00:44:32,559 - > 00:44:35,280 top of things, and you know that an identity test is only 869 00:44:35,280 - > 00:44:38,639 telling you about the identity of the product that's in there, 870 00:44:38,639 - > 00:44:40,159 the ingredient that you expect. 871 00:44:40,159 - > 00:44:40,800 Yeah. 872 00:44:40,800 - > 00:44:44,320 You need to know, you need to be informed to be able to ask 873 00:44:44,320 - > 00:44:46,320 the right questions and not just, oh, that looked 874 00:44:46,320 - > 00:44:46,639 impressive. 875 00:44:46,639 - > 00:44:48,960 And we just rambled off a list of things. 876 00:44:48,960 - > 00:44:50,559 Check, check, check, check, check. 877 00:44:51,440 - > 00:44:53,679 Tina Maddock: And speaking of white label, and I know you're 878 00:44:53,679 - > 00:44:57,119 saying if a retailer wants to start doing testing, that's the 879 00:44:57,119 - > 00:45:00,159 place that you would start, is with a white label because your 880 00:45:00,159 - > 00:45:00,800 name's on it. 881 00:45:00,800 - > 00:45:03,280 And I absolutely agree with that. 882 00:45:03,280 - > 00:45:08,079 And I will say we have just recently talked to an essential 883 00:45:08,079 - > 00:45:12,079 oils company, and this is one of your red flags that came up 884 00:45:12,079 - > 00:45:14,800 when we were having this discussion that the amount of 885 00:45:14,800 - > 00:45:19,039 lavender, essential oil we are selling, outpaces the amount of 886 00:45:19,039 - > 00:45:24,159 actual lavender that if all of it were harvested, can be in 887 00:45:24,159 - > 00:45:24,800 that product. 888 00:45:24,800 - > 00:45:28,800 And so the question sometimes for essential oils and others 889 00:45:28,800 - > 00:45:31,840 are is this natural or is this synthetic? 890 00:45:31,840 - > 00:45:36,880 Just so that you can understand what is going in the bottles 891 00:45:36,880 - > 00:45:40,960 that you're putting your brand name on and asking that simple 892 00:45:40,960 - > 00:45:45,840 question is this man-made versus is this from nature that's 893 00:45:45,840 - > 00:45:50,239 being so um that's a that's a really great question. 894 00:45:50,239 - > 00:45:53,119 And then also that can totally be tested. 895 00:45:53,760 - > 00:45:55,360 Deleo de Leonardis: Well, and I'll give you another example: 896 00:45:55,360 - > 00:45:56,239 collagen. 897 00:45:56,239 - > 00:45:59,039 Yeah, we have been testing collagen and we have been 898 00:45:59,039 - > 00:45:59,519 shocked. 899 00:45:59,519 - > 00:46:03,920 You know, there are some brands out there with you know, very 900 00:46:03,920 - > 00:46:04,800 expensive. 901 00:46:04,800 - > 00:46:09,199 You know, people are shelling out big money on supplements to 902 00:46:09,199 - > 00:46:09,760 begin with. 903 00:46:09,760 - > 00:46:13,039 Yeah, and not only are you spending a lot of money, you're 904 00:46:13,039 - > 00:46:15,360 expecting some sort of benefit, right? 905 00:46:15,360 - > 00:46:16,480 That's the other thing. 906 00:46:16,480 - > 00:46:19,519 Yes, and we have tested collagen. 907 00:46:19,519 - > 00:46:22,320 So most people want to know if it's really marine collagen 908 00:46:22,320 - > 00:46:26,639 versus it's a you know plant, which is another story. 909 00:46:26,639 - > 00:46:29,280 But um, we're testing collagen. 910 00:46:29,280 - > 00:46:33,039 We have found in some of the very big, well-known brands, 911 00:46:33,039 - > 00:46:34,159 zero collagen. 912 00:46:34,159 - > 00:46:36,559 Oh no, it's all gelogen. 913 00:46:36,559 - > 00:46:38,559 Yikes. 914 00:46:38,559 - > 00:46:40,960 Yeah, yikes, big yikes. 915 00:46:40,960 - > 00:46:44,239 So again, this is bandwagon, collagen big. 916 00:46:44,239 - > 00:46:47,840 People are talking about it, it's TikTok and it's whatever, 917 00:46:47,840 - > 00:46:48,960 all over the place. 918 00:46:48,960 - > 00:46:52,480 And so suddenly you realize that you know, people are 919 00:46:52,480 - > 00:46:54,800 shelling out, and it's not the more expensive ones, they're the 920 00:46:54,800 - > 00:46:56,400 better ones, right? 921 00:46:56,400 - > 00:47:00,320 You can't you can't even use that as a bellwether at all, 922 00:47:00,320 - > 00:47:00,480 right? 923 00:47:00,480 - > 00:47:01,440 As a gauge. 924 00:47:01,440 - > 00:47:06,159 So yeah, you need to you need to buyer beware on everything. 925 00:47:06,159 - > 00:47:09,840 And as more and more consumers hear these things, like I was 926 00:47:09,840 - > 00:47:12,559 just saying, they're gonna demand that there's some sort of 927 00:47:12,559 - > 00:47:15,760 proof, which is why we have our certification, you know. 928 00:47:15,760 - > 00:47:19,679 And you know, here's a small pitch, but I'll tell you our the 929 00:47:19,679 - > 00:47:23,840 certification, we just came out very recently with um an 930 00:47:23,840 - > 00:47:26,400 interactive trust mark. 931 00:47:26,400 - > 00:47:30,800 So, you know, and we were challenged by one of our clients 932 00:47:30,800 - > 00:47:33,280 who said, How are you gonna communicate what this means? 933 00:47:33,280 - > 00:47:34,960 You know, certified authentic. 934 00:47:34,960 - > 00:47:38,880 It's not as obvious as you know, peanut-free or gluten-free 935 00:47:38,880 - > 00:47:40,880 or anything or just connect to a peanut everyone. 936 00:47:40,880 - > 00:47:41,280 Oh, okay. 937 00:47:41,280 - > 00:47:42,719 Well, I think we know what that means. 938 00:47:42,719 - > 00:47:46,079 What you think authentic means and what I, you know, our 939 00:47:46,079 - > 00:47:47,360 interpretations could be different. 940 00:47:47,360 - > 00:47:51,920 So we've created, and you know, this is the first, but we're 941 00:47:51,920 - > 00:47:53,360 not gonna be the last, I'm sure. 942 00:47:53,360 - > 00:47:57,119 Uh, it's a QR code-based certification. 943 00:47:57,119 - > 00:48:00,320 So when the consumer is at the shelf, they can't, and now you 944 00:48:00,320 - > 00:48:02,639 know thorough filter back in because you don't you just need 945 00:48:02,639 - > 00:48:05,119 your phone camera and you don't need an app, which is great. 946 00:48:05,119 - > 00:48:08,800 So it takes you immediately to a site that tells you what 947 00:48:08,800 - > 00:48:13,440 authenticity means and what this product had to do to become 948 00:48:13,440 - > 00:48:14,559 certified authentic. 949 00:48:14,559 - > 00:48:17,679 So it really is because there's no room on the label to be able 950 00:48:17,679 - > 00:48:20,960 to, you know, already we're peeling back to read other 951 00:48:20,960 - > 00:48:24,320 things like you know, microscopic fonts or whatever. 952 00:48:24,320 - > 00:48:28,639 So this is an opportunity to be able to go and see right there 953 00:48:28,639 - > 00:48:31,599 where you're in the store, and you're making a decision about 954 00:48:31,599 - > 00:48:34,400 whether or not to buy that product or that product, right? 955 00:48:34,400 - > 00:48:37,280 And that's why people like Brian at True Grace, like 956 00:48:37,280 - > 00:48:40,480 they've em, you know, embrace this because they want to be 957 00:48:40,480 - > 00:48:41,920 able to tell that story. 958 00:48:42,159 - > 00:48:42,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. 959 00:48:42,960 - > 00:48:45,280 Deleo de Leonardis: And and not on their own, right? 960 00:48:45,280 - > 00:48:48,000 Because they don't have to sit there and do a lot of marketing 961 00:48:48,000 - > 00:48:48,960 about it, it's right there. 962 00:48:50,320 - > 00:48:50,719 Tina Maddock: Yeah. 963 00:48:50,719 - > 00:48:53,840 And you know, when we're when I'm thinking about the collagen 964 00:48:53,840 - > 00:48:58,800 story that you just told, um because what happens is these 965 00:48:58,800 - > 00:49:00,559 things like come into vogue, right? 966 00:49:00,559 - > 00:49:02,400 And people start taking them. 967 00:49:02,400 - > 00:49:06,159 But the minute that it we do have a little bit of pill 968 00:49:06,159 - > 00:49:10,079 fatigue, I think, I think Brian Hall mentioned it on our podcast 969 00:49:10,079 - > 00:49:10,719 as well. 970 00:49:10,719 - > 00:49:14,159 But you're taking so many things because you're looking 971 00:49:14,159 - > 00:49:15,360 for the benefits. 972 00:49:15,360 - > 00:49:20,320 But after a month or two, if you're not seeing any 973 00:49:20,320 - > 00:49:22,960 difference, you're not gonna continue to buy. 974 00:49:22,960 - > 00:49:28,079 So this is as much for you, the retailer, as it is for the 975 00:49:28,079 - > 00:49:31,119 consumer, people are not gonna continue to buy a product that 976 00:49:31,119 - > 00:49:32,480 isn't working for them. 977 00:49:32,880 - > 00:49:33,920 Deleo de Leonardis: No, no, it's true. 978 00:49:33,920 - > 00:49:34,719 It's true. 979 00:49:34,719 - > 00:49:38,719 And so, I mean, there, you know, there are back to the red 980 00:49:38,719 - > 00:49:39,039 flags. 981 00:49:39,039 - > 00:49:42,639 I mean, there are red flags that um should be pretty 982 00:49:42,639 - > 00:49:44,239 self-evident, you know. 983 00:49:44,239 - > 00:49:49,679 Um one of the things that um I was talking about uh at uh at 984 00:49:49,679 - > 00:49:52,880 Soho was unusually low prices too, right? 985 00:49:52,880 - > 00:49:56,880 I think that's if it's too good to be true, there's there's a 986 00:49:56,880 - > 00:49:58,559 reason why it's too good to be true. 987 00:49:58,559 - > 00:50:01,599 But the other thing we didn't talk about, um, which is really 988 00:50:01,599 - > 00:50:05,199 kind of critical, especially in the supplement world, is there 989 00:50:05,199 - > 00:50:07,280 are so many hands-on products today. 990 00:50:07,280 - > 00:50:10,880 There are so many intermediaries between 991 00:50:10,880 - > 00:50:14,159 distributors, you know, and of course there's a manufacturer, 992 00:50:14,159 - > 00:50:17,280 but there's distributors, there's importers, there's 993 00:50:17,280 - > 00:50:20,639 brokers, there's all sorts of people that potentially can 994 00:50:20,639 - > 00:50:21,280 touch this. 995 00:50:21,280 - > 00:50:24,880 So when there are multiple, you just wonder how well they know, 996 00:50:24,880 - > 00:50:28,480 you know, down the supply chain what's happened. 997 00:50:28,480 - > 00:50:31,280 Because all of those opportunities are opportunities 998 00:50:31,280 - > 00:50:33,679 for somebody to do something, right? 999 00:50:33,679 - > 00:50:35,119 Potentially. 1000 00:50:35,119 - > 00:50:38,719 And if there are new intermediaries being brought in, 1001 00:50:38,719 - > 00:50:41,280 that's another time to do testing, right? 1002 00:50:41,280 - > 00:50:43,920 So now things have changed. 1003 00:50:43,920 - > 00:50:46,639 Uh, like you said, an acquisition could be things have 1004 00:50:46,639 - > 00:50:49,519 changed, or not an acquisition, but they've just changed who 1005 00:50:49,519 - > 00:50:52,239 they're using now for manufacturing. 1006 00:50:52,239 - > 00:50:54,800 There's obviously some, you know, again, some people use 1007 00:50:54,800 - > 00:50:57,199 co-manufacturers or co-factors or whatever, right? 1008 00:50:57,199 - > 00:51:01,679 So yeah, these are things that again you need to just be wary 1009 00:51:01,679 - > 00:51:04,400 of and think about it. 1010 00:51:04,400 - > 00:51:07,840 Or a sudden, a sudden change in supplier, right? 1011 00:51:07,840 - > 00:51:10,719 Like I've had to change my ingredients supplier because I'm 1012 00:51:10,719 - > 00:51:13,599 having trouble finding XYZ from this country or whatever. 1013 00:51:13,599 - > 00:51:14,159 That's okay. 1014 00:51:14,159 - > 00:51:14,960 Let's great. 1015 00:51:14,960 - > 00:51:15,760 I hope you're testing. 1016 00:51:15,760 - > 00:51:17,039 If you're not, I will. 1017 00:51:17,039 - > 00:51:17,760 Right. 1018 00:51:17,760 - > 00:51:18,239 Right. 1019 00:51:18,480 - > 00:51:19,119 Tina Maddock: Yeah. 1020 00:51:19,119 - > 00:51:23,199 Okay, so we've probably overwhelmed everyone a little 1021 00:51:23,199 - > 00:51:23,519 bit. 1022 00:51:23,519 - > 00:51:25,599 I hope not. 1023 00:51:25,599 - > 00:51:29,039 Well, this does feel a little bit scary and a little bit more 1024 00:51:29,039 - > 00:51:31,920 than like one independent retailer can tackle. 1025 00:51:31,920 - > 00:51:38,239 So um, but I love your advice that there is some trust that 1026 00:51:38,239 - > 00:51:43,440 you can have in manufacturers and brands who are doing the 1027 00:51:43,440 - > 00:51:47,440 right thing, who you can ask, and if they actually understand 1028 00:51:47,440 - > 00:51:50,239 some of the questions that you're asking, at least they're 1029 00:51:50,239 - > 00:51:53,920 they know about it and they're required to have that 1030 00:51:53,920 - > 00:51:55,199 responsibility. 1031 00:51:55,199 - > 00:51:59,599 The place to start probably is with anything that has your name 1032 00:51:59,599 - > 00:52:00,239 on it. 1033 00:52:00,239 - > 00:52:05,280 And I think that they can reach out to your company and say, 1034 00:52:05,280 - > 00:52:07,679 okay, my budget is X. 1035 00:52:07,679 - > 00:52:08,960 What can I do? 1036 00:52:08,960 - > 00:52:10,079 What can I look at? 1037 00:52:10,079 - > 00:52:11,840 What can I make sure of? 1038 00:52:12,880 - > 00:52:14,079 Deleo de Leonardis: Yeah, absolutely. 1039 00:52:14,079 - > 00:52:15,920 That's a good way to start. 1040 00:52:16,559 - > 00:52:19,679 Tina Maddock: So, yeah, so who how do they reach you? 1041 00:52:20,480 - > 00:52:22,559 Deleo de Leonardis: Best thing to do is to go right to our 1042 00:52:22,559 - > 00:52:23,119 website. 1043 00:52:23,119 - > 00:52:27,199 Um we just relaunched the website a few weeks ago, maybe a 1044 00:52:27,199 - > 00:52:27,679 month ago. 1045 00:52:27,679 - > 00:52:29,440 So we're we're very proud of it. 1046 00:52:29,440 - > 00:52:32,159 I think we we demystified it. 1047 00:52:32,159 - > 00:52:33,360 I think it's a bit complex. 1048 00:52:33,360 - > 00:52:36,239 I think when you land there now, it should be painfully 1049 00:52:36,239 - > 00:52:38,000 obvious what we do and why we do. 1050 00:52:38,000 - > 00:52:41,119 And I think that that messaging gets through. 1051 00:52:41,119 - > 00:52:42,559 So come to our website. 1052 00:52:42,559 - > 00:52:46,559 It's uh www or purity hyphen. 1053 00:52:46,559 - > 00:52:48,800 Or is that hyphen will get you? 1054 00:52:48,800 - > 00:52:49,119 Yeah. 1055 00:52:49,119 - > 00:52:50,880 IQ.com. 1056 00:52:50,880 - > 00:52:53,039 Purity-iq.com. 1057 00:52:53,360 - > 00:52:55,360 Tina Maddock: And we will put that in the show notes as well 1058 00:52:55,360 - > 00:52:57,440 to keep people out of place to go. 1059 00:52:58,480 - > 00:53:00,559 Deleo de Leonardis: So there's, you know, even just the landing 1060 00:53:00,559 - > 00:53:03,440 page should be sufficient to give you a good working 1061 00:53:03,440 - > 00:53:06,719 knowledge of what it is we do and how we do it, and and and 1062 00:53:06,719 - > 00:53:07,920 how that can help you. 1063 00:53:07,920 - > 00:53:10,000 And then there's a way to reach us through that. 1064 00:53:10,000 - > 00:53:14,400 And uh, and I see as a CEO, I obviously the sales team and the 1065 00:53:14,400 - > 00:53:18,800 technical team get pleased, but I see too the the inbound uh 1066 00:53:18,800 - > 00:53:20,320 communication that comes in. 1067 00:53:20,320 - > 00:53:23,119 So I think I will be able to see that as well and make sure 1068 00:53:23,119 - > 00:53:23,920 the team's all over. 1069 00:53:24,559 - > 00:53:26,559 Tina Maddock: Yeah, and there are brands that are already 1070 00:53:26,559 - > 00:53:28,079 using purity IQ. 1071 00:53:28,079 - > 00:53:32,719 So definitely look for the label of certification there. 1072 00:53:32,719 - > 00:53:36,960 Um, and then reach out to the Purity IQ team, especially if 1073 00:53:36,960 - > 00:53:40,800 you have a white label product in your store, even if you're 1074 00:53:40,800 - > 00:53:44,000 smaller, there are small investments that you can make to 1075 00:53:44,000 - > 00:53:47,199 really make a difference and then talk about it constantly in 1076 00:53:47,199 - > 00:53:47,920 your marketing. 1077 00:53:47,920 - > 00:53:52,960 We do this on behalf of our consumers because we care that 1078 00:53:52,960 - > 00:53:56,320 what we're providing is what you're actually putting in your 1079 00:53:56,320 - > 00:53:56,960 body. 1080 00:53:57,920 - > 00:53:58,719 Deleo de Leonardis: Super important. 1081 00:53:59,199 - > 00:53:59,679 Tina Maddock: Yep. 1082 00:53:59,679 - > 00:54:01,440 All right, this was a delight. 1083 00:54:01,440 - > 00:54:03,599 I just I always love talking to you. 1084 00:54:03,599 - > 00:54:08,239 We could probably talk for hours because there's I have a 1085 00:54:08,239 - > 00:54:09,199 plane to catch. 1086 00:54:09,199 - > 00:54:14,480 So we can't we're gonna honor that time today, but it's it is 1087 00:54:14,480 - > 00:54:16,239 um so great to talk to you. 1088 00:54:16,239 - > 00:54:17,679 You're so knowledgeable. 1089 00:54:17,679 - > 00:54:19,840 I love that you have that retail background. 1090 00:54:19,840 - > 00:54:22,320 It gives you such compassion for the people who are actually 1091 00:54:22,320 - > 00:54:26,239 running these stores and um would love for people to come 1092 00:54:26,239 - > 00:54:32,000 by, get to know you, and uh get um your services working on 1093 00:54:32,000 - > 00:54:35,199 their behalf, whether they're a brand or a retailer who's 1094 00:54:35,199 - > 00:54:36,880 offering white label products. 1095 00:54:37,199 - > 00:54:37,599 Deleo de Leonardis: Thank you. 1096 00:54:37,599 - > 00:54:38,079 Thank you. 1097 00:54:38,079 - > 00:54:39,840 We're very, very passionate about what we do. 1098 00:54:39,840 - > 00:54:43,599 The team is really pumped to be doing something to make a 1099 00:54:43,599 - > 00:54:44,639 difference, hopefully. 1100 00:54:44,639 - > 00:54:47,920 And uh I want to thank you for having me here and inviting me. 1101 00:54:47,920 - > 00:54:48,639 This has been great. 1102 00:54:48,639 - > 00:54:49,760 Love the conversation. 1103 00:54:50,000 - > 00:54:51,199 Tina Maddock: Yeah, absolutely. 1104 00:54:51,199 - > 00:54:53,599 All right, thank you all for joining us today. 1105 00:54:53,599 - > 00:54:55,199 We appreciate that you're here. 1106 00:54:55,199 - > 00:54:58,320 And if you've enjoyed what you heard, pass this on to a friend 1107 00:54:58,320 - > 00:54:59,440 who needs to hear it as well. 1108 00:54:59,440 - > 00:55:00,400 Talk to you soon. 1109 00:55:00,400 - > 00:55:01,280 Bye-bye. 1110 00:55:01,280 - > 00:55:04,559 Thank you so much for joining us for the latest episode of the 1111 00:55:04,559 - > 00:55:08,400 Natural Products Marketer Podcast, where we're here to 1112 00:55:08,400 - > 00:55:12,000 help you grow your business so you can serve more people and 1113 00:55:12,000 - > 00:55:13,440 change more lives. 1114 00:55:13,440 - > 00:55:16,719 If you have any questions that have come up during this episode 1115 00:55:16,719 - > 00:55:19,519 or others, or there's just a retail challenge that you're 1116 00:55:19,519 - > 00:55:22,880 facing today, I would love for you to reach out to us at info 1117 00:55:22,880 - > 00:55:25,599 at naturalproductsmarketer.com. 1118 00:55:25,599 - > 00:55:27,679 We're here to answer questions. 1119 00:55:27,679 - > 00:55:31,519 But most of all, if you have a question, then another retailer 1120 00:55:31,519 - > 00:55:33,119 probably also has that question. 1121 00:55:33,119 - > 00:55:37,119 So we can bring experts onto the podcast to give you the 1122 00:55:37,119 - > 00:55:38,719 information that you really need. 1123 00:55:38,719 - > 00:55:42,719 And if you liked what you heard, give us a thumbs up or 1124 00:55:42,719 - > 00:55:48,239 give us a review on uh YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or 1125 00:55:48,239 - > 00:55:49,519 wherever you're listening today. 1126 00:55:49,519 - > 00:55:51,440 All right, it was great to see you.