Compliance For Natural Products Marketing with Asa Waldstein

1 00:00:00,160 - > 00:00:03,040 Asa Waldstein: Well, I'll start off by saying if you do market, 2 00:00:03,040 - > 00:00:06,240 especially if you market online, you're on FDA's radar. 3 00:00:06,240 - > 00:00:08,720 There's no such thing as being too small. 4 00:00:08,720 - > 00:00:12,000 If you're on, especially if you're online, you're on FDA's 5 00:00:12,000 - > 00:00:12,320 radar. 6 00:00:12,640 - > 00:00:14,960 Tina Maddock: Welcome to the Natural Products Marketer 7 00:00:14,960 - > 00:00:15,519 Podcast. 8 00:00:15,519 - > 00:00:17,920 I'm your host, Tina Matdock. 9 00:00:17,920 - > 00:00:21,359 On this podcast, you'll hear from manufacturers, retail 10 00:00:21,359 - > 00:00:25,600 owners, and operators, and other business experts that will help 11 00:00:25,600 - > 00:00:28,640 you grow your business so you can serve more people and change 12 00:00:28,640 - > 00:00:29,120 more lives. 13 00:00:29,120 - > 00:00:31,839 Asa, I'm so excited to have you here. 14 00:00:31,839 - > 00:00:35,200 Um, this is your second time on the podcast. 15 00:00:35,200 - > 00:00:39,359 And the first time, we did have a lot of people reach out to us 16 00:00:39,359 - > 00:00:42,560 and ask us for more information about you because I think the 17 00:00:42,560 - > 00:00:47,119 dische topic is always front of mind for retailers and 18 00:00:47,119 - > 00:00:48,640 manufacturers alike. 19 00:00:48,640 - > 00:00:53,039 Um, and I know that I reached out to you after you presented 20 00:00:53,039 - > 00:00:53,920 at Soho. 21 00:00:53,920 - > 00:00:58,719 So I'd love for you to give us just a quick overview for any of 22 00:00:58,719 - > 00:01:02,799 the audience who wasn't able to make it to Soho and listeners, 23 00:01:02,799 - > 00:01:05,680 you definitely should go to Soho next year. 24 00:01:05,680 - > 00:01:09,120 They're great speakers, but also you get to mix and mingle 25 00:01:09,120 - > 00:01:13,760 with other retailers who give just absolutely great advice. 26 00:01:13,760 - > 00:01:17,200 So tell us what you covered during your session. 27 00:01:17,760 - > 00:01:18,239 Asa Waldstein: Yes. 28 00:01:18,239 - > 00:01:21,840 So this was a really fun interactive discussion on 29 00:01:21,840 - > 00:01:25,920 enforcement trends, looking at warning letters, litigation 30 00:01:25,920 - > 00:01:28,959 trends, really as a way to inform compliant marketing. 31 00:01:28,959 - > 00:01:32,400 What are retailers, what are brands getting in trouble for? 32 00:01:32,400 - > 00:01:35,680 What are those little nuances that they can kind of ramp up or 33 00:01:35,680 - > 00:01:38,640 down to still effectively communicate with their customers 34 00:01:38,640 - > 00:01:41,439 without inadvertently stepping in hot water? 35 00:01:41,439 - > 00:01:43,120 I call them regulatory landmines. 36 00:01:43,120 - > 00:01:46,560 And then the second part of that was reviewing technology 37 00:01:46,560 - > 00:01:48,159 solutions for regulatory compliance. 38 00:01:48,159 - > 00:01:52,640 So we live in a tech world, of course, AI, AI forward world and 39 00:01:52,640 - > 00:01:54,480 many of our uh realities. 40 00:01:54,480 - > 00:01:57,200 And so I went over different technologies like Apex 41 00:01:57,200 - > 00:02:00,400 Compliance, Google's Notebook LM that can help companies 42 00:02:00,400 - > 00:02:03,280 understand compliance and make their lives hopefully a little 43 00:02:03,280 - > 00:02:04,079 easier. 44 00:02:04,480 - > 00:02:08,319 Tina Maddock: Yeah, and I know your entire talk is in the Sinpa 45 00:02:08,319 - > 00:02:09,520 Circle community. 46 00:02:09,520 - > 00:02:13,520 So if anyone is a member of Sinpa or you want to join 47 00:02:13,520 - > 00:02:16,879 because you want to hear all of Ace's talk, you can sign up for 48 00:02:16,879 - > 00:02:18,479 the Sinpa Circle community. 49 00:02:18,479 - > 00:02:22,400 We will have a link in the show notes so that you can hop over 50 00:02:22,400 - > 00:02:27,439 there and ask for access to the Soho show information. 51 00:02:27,439 - > 00:02:31,680 But I'm so curious about enforcement, especially among 52 00:02:31,680 - > 00:02:33,120 independent retailers. 53 00:02:33,120 - > 00:02:36,319 Talk to us a little bit about, we've talked a million times 54 00:02:36,319 - > 00:02:39,199 about like what is compliant, what's not compliant, and even 55 00:02:39,199 - > 00:02:40,719 what enforcement letters say. 56 00:02:40,719 - > 00:02:43,520 But I'm curious about enforcement at the independent 57 00:02:43,520 - > 00:02:44,479 retail level. 58 00:02:44,479 - > 00:02:47,439 How often are you seeing enforcement letters sent out? 59 00:02:47,439 - > 00:02:49,120 What happens after that? 60 00:02:49,120 - > 00:02:53,759 Is there a response checklist that people should be aware of? 61 00:02:53,759 - > 00:02:55,759 And then are there penalties? 62 00:02:55,759 - > 00:02:57,280 Like, tell us a little bit more. 63 00:02:57,680 - > 00:02:58,000 Asa Waldstein: Sure. 64 00:02:58,000 - > 00:03:01,599 Well, I'll start off by saying if you do market, especially if 65 00:03:01,599 - > 00:03:04,319 you market online, you're on FDA's radar. 66 00:03:04,319 - > 00:03:06,800 There's no such thing as being too small. 67 00:03:06,800 - > 00:03:10,159 If you're on, especially if you're online, you're on FDA's 68 00:03:10,159 - > 00:03:10,560 radar. 69 00:03:10,560 - > 00:03:12,319 So we'll start with warning letters. 70 00:03:12,319 - > 00:03:17,039 If a company does get a warning letter, they are not 71 00:03:17,039 - > 00:03:20,159 necessarily required, but they certainly should respond to the 72 00:03:20,159 - > 00:03:20,719 FDA. 73 00:03:20,719 - > 00:03:26,400 Usually they have 15 days, address the citations in the 74 00:03:26,400 - > 00:03:29,360 warning letter, the corrective action, that type of thing. 75 00:03:29,360 - > 00:03:32,159 So as we look at enforcement trend, it's really kind of FDA, 76 00:03:32,159 - > 00:03:35,199 FCC warning letters, and then litigation trends. 77 00:03:35,199 - > 00:03:38,639 So on the litigation trends, these usually come in the form 78 00:03:38,639 - > 00:03:39,840 of a demand letter. 79 00:03:39,840 - > 00:03:41,039 They're not public. 80 00:03:41,039 - > 00:03:45,199 It's essentially a, hey, I think you're saying this wrong, 81 00:03:45,199 - > 00:03:48,639 and you can settle with me for X number of thousands of dollars, 82 00:03:48,639 - > 00:03:51,919 or we might elevate it to a class action type lawsuit. 83 00:03:51,919 - > 00:03:54,879 So it's kind of when we look at enforcement trends with some 84 00:03:54,879 - > 00:03:57,680 quotes, those are two different angles that I like to I like to 85 00:03:57,680 - > 00:03:58,719 look at it through. 86 00:03:59,120 - > 00:04:01,039 Tina Maddock: Okay, so if someone gets one of these 87 00:04:01,039 - > 00:04:05,360 warning letters, are is it a best practice to contact legal 88 00:04:05,360 - > 00:04:05,759 advice? 89 00:04:05,759 - > 00:04:07,039 What would you recommend? 90 00:04:07,520 - > 00:04:10,080 Asa Waldstein: Yeah, warning letters do require legal 91 00:04:10,080 - > 00:04:10,560 resources. 92 00:04:10,560 - > 00:04:13,599 I always suggest reach out to counsel. 93 00:04:13,599 - > 00:04:16,959 There's people in my network, your network, that I certainly, 94 00:04:16,959 - > 00:04:20,639 you know, we could all refer to that do these things all day, 95 00:04:20,639 - > 00:04:21,199 every day. 96 00:04:21,199 - > 00:04:22,879 So legal counsel is great. 97 00:04:22,879 - > 00:04:25,279 They'll help you properly respond to the warning letter. 98 00:04:25,279 - > 00:04:28,079 What you don't want to do is not respond to the warning 99 00:04:28,079 - > 00:04:32,000 letter properly, and then it can lead to more warning letters. 100 00:04:32,000 - > 00:04:35,199 It could lead to FDA coming and visiting your facility over and 101 00:04:35,199 - > 00:04:39,279 over again, I guess, in a very, very serious scenario. 102 00:04:39,279 - > 00:04:41,519 It's uncommon, but it's possible it could lead to 103 00:04:41,519 - > 00:04:43,279 injunction and that type of thing. 104 00:04:43,279 - > 00:04:45,600 Also, warning letters are are public. 105 00:04:45,600 - > 00:04:48,720 So you don't you don't want to get them, right? 106 00:04:48,720 - > 00:04:51,199 But you definitely don't want to get multiple warning letters. 107 00:04:51,199 - > 00:04:54,399 Warning letters are public, so they can alert the class action 108 00:04:54,399 - > 00:04:54,720 attorney. 109 00:04:54,720 - > 00:04:56,959 So warning letters come out, and a bunch of demand letters 110 00:04:56,959 - > 00:04:58,079 and lawsuits follow. 111 00:04:58,079 - > 00:05:01,920 It can also, in addition to that, it can help scare away 112 00:05:01,920 - > 00:05:03,040 strategic investors. 113 00:05:03,040 - > 00:05:05,759 So if your companies are looking to raise capital or exit 114 00:05:05,759 - > 00:05:08,399 or whatever it may be, it can really scare away those 115 00:05:08,399 - > 00:05:10,639 potential uh strategic alignments. 116 00:05:11,040 - > 00:05:11,439 Tina Maddock: Yeah. 117 00:05:11,439 - > 00:05:15,600 And we've seen whether it's a warning letter or other um 118 00:05:15,600 - > 00:05:23,279 lawsuit situations happening, have had the um the fallout from 119 00:05:23,279 - > 00:05:28,160 that are the partners get a little wary of doing business or 120 00:05:28,160 - > 00:05:32,560 or taking the next step with independent retailers, smaller 121 00:05:32,560 - > 00:05:36,240 retailers, this can really um be something that affects 122 00:05:36,240 - > 00:05:38,319 partnerships in the community. 123 00:05:38,319 - > 00:05:40,720 Um so they it's very serious. 124 00:05:40,720 - > 00:05:43,759 Whenever any of these sorts of things start happening, it 125 00:05:43,759 - > 00:05:48,160 there's some reputation um that starts to be on the line, which 126 00:05:48,160 - > 00:05:50,879 can absolutely affect business and revenue. 127 00:05:50,879 - > 00:05:56,560 Um, so if someone doesn't have an attorney for their business 128 00:05:56,560 - > 00:06:01,040 yet and um gets into a situation like this, could they reach out 129 00:06:01,040 - > 00:06:03,519 to you and your company and say, hey, do you have any 130 00:06:03,519 - > 00:06:06,399 recommendations about a lawyer that we could use? 131 00:06:06,800 - > 00:06:09,360 Asa Waldstein: I'm always happened to happy to open up my 132 00:06:09,360 - > 00:06:12,879 network and share all the folks, you know, the kind of greater, 133 00:06:12,879 - > 00:06:13,680 greater good. 134 00:06:13,680 - > 00:06:15,040 I love warm handoffs. 135 00:06:15,040 - > 00:06:18,160 I have a lot of people in my network, I'm sure just like you 136 00:06:18,160 - > 00:06:21,199 teamed over the many years we've been doing this that I know are 137 00:06:21,199 - > 00:06:25,439 kind of trusted resources, either for nuts and bolts, GMP 138 00:06:25,439 - > 00:06:29,279 support, you know, legal resources, attorneys, law firms 139 00:06:29,279 - > 00:06:30,480 that can help with these type of things. 140 00:06:30,480 - > 00:06:33,839 Yeah, always happy to, always happy to help people point 141 00:06:33,839 - > 00:06:34,720 people in the right directions. 142 00:06:34,720 - > 00:06:37,279 Feel free to send me an email or a note on LinkedIn. 143 00:06:37,279 - > 00:06:39,120 And if I can, I certainly will help. 144 00:06:39,439 - > 00:06:42,000 Tina Maddock: And you keep people informed of this, um, 145 00:06:42,000 - > 00:06:45,120 what's happening with warning letters and what you're seeing 146 00:06:45,120 - > 00:06:48,399 and the trends um all the time through a newsletter, right? 147 00:06:48,959 - > 00:06:49,519 Asa Waldstein: Yes. 148 00:06:49,519 - > 00:06:52,160 I've been writing warning letter Wednesday at 149 00:06:52,160 - > 00:06:56,560 warningletterwednesday.com for 223 weeks in a row. 150 00:06:56,560 - > 00:06:57,600 Oh my goodness. 151 00:06:57,600 - > 00:07:02,079 I'm really, really a geek for enforcement trends. 152 00:07:02,079 - > 00:07:05,600 So I write about FTA warning letters, litigation trends, 153 00:07:05,600 - > 00:07:08,800 national advertising division cases, and I try to put it in a 154 00:07:08,800 - > 00:07:12,399 bite-sized weekly newsletter that anyone, not just regulatory 155 00:07:12,399 - > 00:07:16,000 experts, but entry-level people, marketers, executives, 156 00:07:16,000 - > 00:07:16,560 whomever. 157 00:07:16,560 - > 00:07:20,319 Even my daughter, that's a wildlife ecologist, she could 158 00:07:20,319 - > 00:07:22,959 read it and kind of understand, you know, what's going on. 159 00:07:22,959 - > 00:07:25,839 And if she was marketing a product, for example, what does 160 00:07:25,839 - > 00:07:28,879 she need to know about so she can adjust her marketing and 161 00:07:28,879 - > 00:07:30,240 hopefully stay out of trouble? 162 00:07:30,480 - > 00:07:31,759 Tina Maddock: Yeah, that's amazing. 163 00:07:31,759 - > 00:07:34,800 So please do sign up for warning letter Wednesday. 164 00:07:34,800 - > 00:07:37,839 Um, but AC, you also have software that can help people 165 00:07:37,839 - > 00:07:40,480 with their websites or other marketing materials that they 166 00:07:40,480 - > 00:07:43,759 can plug in and it can identify some issues going on. 167 00:07:44,240 - > 00:07:47,920 Asa Waldstein: Yes, I invented a product called Apex Compliance 168 00:07:47,920 - > 00:07:50,240 at apexcomplianceprogram.com. 169 00:07:50,240 - > 00:07:54,560 And initially I built a tool, an internal software software 170 00:07:54,560 - > 00:07:59,360 tool for my consulting practice to find trigger words that can 171 00:07:59,360 - > 00:08:01,519 lead to warning letters and lawsuits on websites. 172 00:08:01,519 - > 00:08:04,560 So I went looking for this technology that could I could 173 00:08:04,560 - > 00:08:06,959 just pop in the all these hundreds of words I have in my 174 00:08:06,959 - > 00:08:10,079 database, and it can give me a report of where these words are, 175 00:08:10,079 - > 00:08:12,480 the risk rating, low risk alternatives, that type of 176 00:08:12,480 - > 00:08:12,720 thing. 177 00:08:12,720 - > 00:08:14,639 There wasn't one out there, so I built one. 178 00:08:14,639 - > 00:08:17,600 I built it internally for my own consulting world. 179 00:08:17,600 - > 00:08:20,560 And then word got out, and I kind of had this light bulb 180 00:08:20,560 - > 00:08:20,879 moment. 181 00:08:20,879 - > 00:08:22,720 Oh my goodness, I'm onto something. 182 00:08:22,720 - > 00:08:25,920 So spun that out into its own company, hired really smart 183 00:08:25,920 - > 00:08:28,800 programmers and designers to build this out, launched about 184 00:08:28,800 - > 00:08:29,839 27 months ago. 185 00:08:29,839 - > 00:08:33,039 So Apex Compliance has evolved quite a bit and it's still 186 00:08:33,039 - > 00:08:33,519 evolving. 187 00:08:33,519 - > 00:08:37,679 So it can identify risky trigger words on websites, on 188 00:08:37,679 - > 00:08:41,279 YouTube channels, on social media, it can go through every 189 00:08:41,279 - > 00:08:45,919 Instagram and Facebook account account, YouTube, Amazon, and 190 00:08:45,919 - > 00:08:47,600 then all the pre-published content. 191 00:08:47,600 - > 00:08:52,000 So it kind of works as a smart regulatory assistant that can 192 00:08:52,000 - > 00:08:54,799 kind of help you make decisions, especially if you're going 193 00:08:54,799 - > 00:08:57,840 through large amounts of data, all the stuff that's already out 194 00:08:57,840 - > 00:08:58,000 there. 195 00:08:58,000 - > 00:09:02,240 Because in the eyes of the FDA, even a multi-year-old post, a 196 00:09:02,240 - > 00:09:05,200 blog post, a social media post, it's considered active 197 00:09:05,200 - > 00:09:05,600 marketing. 198 00:09:05,600 - > 00:09:08,240 So it kind of gives you peace of mind with all those things 199 00:09:08,240 - > 00:09:11,200 that are out there, potentially keeping you up at night, and 200 00:09:11,200 - > 00:09:13,759 then streamlines that content review going forward. 201 00:09:13,759 - > 00:09:16,320 And it keeps getting better and better and better. 202 00:09:16,320 - > 00:09:18,879 I'm so so excited about this program. 203 00:09:19,440 - > 00:09:22,480 Tina Maddock: Well, also, one of the things I loved about it was 204 00:09:22,480 - > 00:09:26,480 when you put the content in there, um, of course, you don't 205 00:09:26,480 - > 00:09:27,519 have to change anything. 206 00:09:27,519 - > 00:09:31,039 It's helping you make decisions and just sort of highlighting 207 00:09:31,039 - > 00:09:32,320 what could be a problem. 208 00:09:32,320 - > 00:09:34,559 But then it also gives you alternatives. 209 00:09:34,559 - > 00:09:37,279 Like you could rephrase it this way. 210 00:09:37,279 - > 00:09:40,720 So you don't have to think very hard about changing the 211 00:09:40,720 - > 00:09:41,039 content. 212 00:09:41,039 - > 00:09:42,480 It makes it really easy. 213 00:09:42,879 - > 00:09:45,200 Asa Waldstein: Yeah, of course, everyone should have data to 214 00:09:45,200 - > 00:09:48,159 back up their claims, be truthful, not misleading, but it 215 00:09:48,159 - > 00:09:51,440 does help you with at least creativity, if nothing else. 216 00:09:51,440 - > 00:09:56,559 So it can flag a word like anti-inflammatory, give it it 217 00:09:56,559 - > 00:09:58,320 attributes it a risk rating. 218 00:09:58,320 - > 00:10:01,360 The program comes preloaded with possible suggestions. 219 00:10:01,360 - > 00:10:03,519 Again, we don't know if companies have data to back up, 220 00:10:03,519 - > 00:10:04,799 but it can kind of give them ideas. 221 00:10:04,799 - > 00:10:08,559 And then if we have these, this really strong, robust engine 222 00:10:08,559 - > 00:10:11,519 that's trained on compliance principles, my knowledge, and so 223 00:10:11,519 - > 00:10:15,519 much more that can kind of say, hey, I see that you're using 224 00:10:15,519 - > 00:10:17,360 this word in this context. 225 00:10:17,360 - > 00:10:19,679 I think that that's a risk level here. 226 00:10:19,679 - > 00:10:22,960 But here are some other ways to reword that entire sentence in 227 00:10:22,960 - > 00:10:23,519 that paragraph. 228 00:10:23,519 - > 00:10:27,600 So it's kind of really smart AI to help help guide people along 229 00:10:27,600 - > 00:10:31,039 the way wherever they are in the regulatory, where whatever 230 00:10:31,039 - > 00:10:33,039 type of regulatory aptitude they have. 231 00:10:33,600 - > 00:10:34,000 Tina Maddock: Yeah. 232 00:10:34,000 - > 00:10:37,200 So that was one reason I really appreciated it, because you 233 00:10:37,200 - > 00:10:40,320 don't have to think so hard whenever you're trying to make 234 00:10:40,320 - > 00:10:42,720 changes to these things that could be problematic. 235 00:10:43,200 - > 00:10:43,440 Asa Waldstein: Yes. 236 00:10:43,440 - > 00:10:47,679 And I will say also that we've we've built this new kind of 237 00:10:47,679 - > 00:10:50,960 Apex 2.0 smart regulatory chatbot, which will be out in 238 00:10:50,960 - > 00:10:52,720 the next month or a couple months or so. 239 00:10:52,720 - > 00:10:55,519 We built it for all levels of knowledge. 240 00:10:55,519 - > 00:11:00,720 So if someone's an entry-level retailer that doesn't know or 241 00:11:00,720 - > 00:11:04,159 maybe didn't worry too much about compliance, it can help 242 00:11:04,159 - > 00:11:06,639 you identify the things you might not know. 243 00:11:06,639 - > 00:11:10,080 So it'll you can put in your website and it'll basically say, 244 00:11:10,080 - > 00:11:13,279 you know, I know you didn't necessarily search for this, but 245 00:11:13,279 - > 00:11:14,879 here's some things you might want to look at. 246 00:11:14,879 - > 00:11:18,559 So it helps really bring things to the surface, and then you 247 00:11:18,559 - > 00:11:21,919 can chat with the program to help make educated decisions. 248 00:11:21,919 - > 00:11:25,279 So yeah, technology is amazing and it keeps getting better and 249 00:11:25,279 - > 00:11:25,759 better. 250 00:11:26,080 - > 00:11:26,559 Tina Maddock: Yeah. 251 00:11:26,559 - > 00:11:28,159 Um, so that's so fun. 252 00:11:28,159 - > 00:11:31,840 And also just knowing that if you have a SINPA membership, 253 00:11:31,840 - > 00:11:35,360 there are um opportunities to save a little bit of money on 254 00:11:35,360 - > 00:11:36,879 the software uh with ACE. 255 00:11:36,879 - > 00:11:42,159 So hop into that SINPA community again and um play 256 00:11:42,159 - > 00:11:47,360 things like ACE software are being shared between retailers 257 00:11:47,360 - > 00:11:51,919 because again, that network and community help us all do better 258 00:11:51,919 - > 00:11:53,840 and find better ways to do business. 259 00:11:53,840 - > 00:11:56,240 So I'm excited that you're part of that. 260 00:11:56,639 - > 00:11:56,879 Asa Waldstein: Thank you. 261 00:11:56,879 - > 00:12:00,320 And I did also sorry, I did also want to share that it's 262 00:12:00,320 - > 00:12:03,120 actually a really, really good discount. 263 00:12:03,120 - > 00:12:07,279 I understand, you know, independent retailers or 264 00:12:07,279 - > 00:12:07,919 startups. 265 00:12:07,919 - > 00:12:09,679 You know, it's it's it's hard, right? 266 00:12:09,679 - > 00:12:11,360 We're all very budget conscious. 267 00:12:11,360 - > 00:12:15,279 So we have a special, special arrangement in alignment with 268 00:12:15,279 - > 00:12:18,720 Sendpa because we just love the the partnership so much where we 269 00:12:18,720 - > 00:12:22,639 offer great discounts for Sendpa members and partners as 270 00:12:22,639 - > 00:12:23,120 well, too. 271 00:12:23,120 - > 00:12:25,440 So I just wanted to double highlight that there's some 272 00:12:25,440 - > 00:12:28,480 great deals out there if you are a member or a partner. 273 00:12:28,879 - > 00:12:31,039 Tina Maddock: Yeah, definitely take advantage of that. 274 00:12:31,039 - > 00:12:34,399 And I didn't mean for this to become sort of an infomercial, 275 00:12:34,399 - > 00:12:37,519 but I just think it's people are always having so many questions 276 00:12:37,519 - > 00:12:39,200 about am I compliant or not? 277 00:12:39,200 - > 00:12:42,559 And and either using your software or um having some 278 00:12:42,559 - > 00:12:45,519 consultations with you or even listening to this podcast is 279 00:12:45,519 - > 00:12:48,720 very helpful for them to just become aware of things that 280 00:12:48,720 - > 00:12:52,799 could be triggers and what those what the ramifications are 281 00:12:52,799 - > 00:12:56,159 before they get into a warnings letter situation. 282 00:12:56,159 - > 00:13:01,360 Um, so there's a lot of ways to help you become educated and 283 00:13:01,360 - > 00:13:03,200 more compliant at the same time. 284 00:13:03,200 - > 00:13:07,440 Um so let's hop into a little bit more of the education part 285 00:13:07,440 - > 00:13:10,080 of it, where it's, you know, you and I were talking the other 286 00:13:10,080 - > 00:13:13,360 day, and you mentioned that retailers were coming up to ask 287 00:13:13,360 - > 00:13:16,799 you about everyday scenarios and whether or not they're 288 00:13:16,799 - > 00:13:17,279 compliant. 289 00:13:17,279 - > 00:13:20,799 And I'm just curious, like, what were the things that people 290 00:13:20,799 - > 00:13:22,000 kept presenting you with? 291 00:13:22,000 - > 00:13:23,440 Like, is this okay? 292 00:13:23,440 - > 00:13:24,720 Is this okay? 293 00:13:25,120 - > 00:13:27,440 Asa Waldstein: Yeah, it oftentimes has to do with 294 00:13:27,440 - > 00:13:30,720 discussing clinical data or talking about their ingredients. 295 00:13:30,720 - > 00:13:32,320 Hey, guess what, Asa? 296 00:13:32,320 - > 00:13:36,080 We've got there is research on Oshwagand and depression. 297 00:13:36,080 - > 00:13:38,639 Why can't I say that on my website? 298 00:13:38,639 - > 00:13:39,519 Excuse me. 299 00:13:39,519 - > 00:13:44,240 So it's a lot of kind of re-education of what where the 300 00:13:44,240 - > 00:13:46,559 regulatory line is and the FDA structure. 301 00:13:46,559 - > 00:13:50,080 So to kind of break it down a little further with FDA, even if 302 00:13:50,080 - > 00:13:52,480 you have all the clinical data in the world, you're still not 303 00:13:52,480 - > 00:13:54,480 allowed to make disease claims about your products. 304 00:13:54,480 - > 00:13:58,000 And someone may say, well, what about if if it's an ingredient 305 00:13:58,000 - > 00:13:58,399 blog? 306 00:13:58,399 - > 00:14:01,840 And then I would counter with this happens all the time, with, 307 00:14:01,840 - > 00:14:05,759 well, it's on your website, and the agency would think that 308 00:14:05,759 - > 00:14:08,639 you're using this ingredient blog to sell products, 309 00:14:08,639 - > 00:14:11,519 especially if you're crosslinking, hyperlinking. 310 00:14:11,519 - > 00:14:14,159 If the closer it is to the shopping cart, the more likely 311 00:14:14,159 - > 00:14:15,440 it is to be scrutinized. 312 00:14:15,440 - > 00:14:20,559 But let's say that there's a product that has oshwagandha in 313 00:14:20,559 - > 00:14:23,039 it that you sell on your website, and you have a blog 314 00:14:23,039 - > 00:14:25,120 about oshwagandha and depression. 315 00:14:25,120 - > 00:14:28,879 Even if there's no crosslinking or hyperlinking, that is enough 316 00:14:28,879 - > 00:14:30,080 to attract a warning letter. 317 00:14:30,080 - > 00:14:33,600 So it's kind of we're allowed to discuss science, but where's 318 00:14:33,600 - > 00:14:38,639 that line between we're citing a URL or we're really actively 319 00:14:38,639 - > 00:14:40,399 using this to sell a product? 320 00:14:40,399 - > 00:14:44,159 So it's a lot of times it's the clinical data and discussing 321 00:14:44,159 - > 00:14:44,879 ingredients. 322 00:14:44,879 - > 00:14:47,360 Well, I'm just discussing my ingredients. 323 00:14:47,360 - > 00:14:49,679 I'm not saying that my product does this. 324 00:14:49,679 - > 00:14:50,960 Same thing, right? 325 00:14:50,960 - > 00:14:53,440 If we're talking about an ingredient, a constituent, an 326 00:14:53,440 - > 00:14:56,639 ingredient, if we sell it in any product, that um that's 327 00:14:56,639 - > 00:15:00,559 certainly enough to tip the scale based on enforcement 328 00:15:00,559 - > 00:15:00,960 trends. 329 00:15:00,960 - > 00:15:02,480 It always wasn't like that. 330 00:15:02,480 - > 00:15:04,879 So there's this one, but I can certainly keep going. 331 00:15:05,200 - > 00:15:06,080 Tina Maddock: Yeah, we will. 332 00:15:06,080 - > 00:15:08,879 I want to dig into that one just a little bit more because 333 00:15:08,879 - > 00:15:15,600 um this comes from um part of the Deche um regulations around, 334 00:15:15,600 - > 00:15:18,000 and and people have talked about this before. 335 00:15:18,000 - > 00:15:20,559 Like you can have a book somewhere, but it can't be right 336 00:15:20,559 - > 00:15:21,919 next to the product. 337 00:15:21,919 - > 00:15:27,039 So this feels like that is very much in that same vein. 338 00:15:27,039 - > 00:15:30,240 Like you can't have this right next to selling the product. 339 00:15:30,240 - > 00:15:32,720 And this digital world just makes it a little bit more 340 00:15:32,720 - > 00:15:36,240 difficult because this was not envisioned at the time of D She 341 00:15:36,240 - > 00:15:37,039 creation, right? 342 00:15:37,360 - > 00:15:37,679 Asa Waldstein: Yes. 343 00:15:37,679 - > 00:15:38,720 Yeah, absolutely. 344 00:15:38,720 - > 00:15:41,600 It's the kind of reading, reading room discussion. 345 00:15:41,600 - > 00:15:44,879 But in this digital world, everything's so connected. 346 00:15:44,879 - > 00:15:49,039 So sometimes people say, Yeah, but I'm a two-click rule away. 347 00:15:49,039 - > 00:15:52,960 The the two-click rule is kind of like the Sasquatch. 348 00:15:52,960 - > 00:15:56,480 It's this urban myth that doesn't really it it does, it's 349 00:15:56,480 - > 00:15:56,879 not true. 350 00:15:56,879 - > 00:16:00,240 I mean, farther away from the the shopping car you are, the 351 00:16:00,240 - > 00:16:00,559 better. 352 00:16:00,559 - > 00:16:04,159 But two clicks doesn't protect you unless it's off on another 353 00:16:04,159 - > 00:16:06,000 website that that you can't control. 354 00:16:06,000 - > 00:16:09,679 So I like to kind of run everything through the through 355 00:16:09,679 - > 00:16:13,120 the gut feeling, you know, that it does this feel like I'm 356 00:16:13,120 - > 00:16:13,919 marketing this product. 357 00:16:13,919 - > 00:16:15,600 What would a reasonable consumer think? 358 00:16:15,600 - > 00:16:19,200 So let's say I've got a blog and I'm talking about best 359 00:16:19,200 - > 00:16:21,519 practices for winter wellness. 360 00:16:21,519 - > 00:16:24,559 Maybe I'm talking about meditation, I'm talking about 361 00:16:24,559 - > 00:16:28,000 acupuncture, maybe I'm talking about meditation can help with 362 00:16:28,000 - > 00:16:28,799 anxiety. 363 00:16:28,799 - > 00:16:31,759 Now that's fine, but where it certainly crosses the line is 364 00:16:31,759 - > 00:16:33,600 where we bring the commercial speech into it. 365 00:16:33,600 - > 00:16:35,840 Are we talking about ingredients or products that we 366 00:16:35,840 - > 00:16:36,080 sell? 367 00:16:36,080 - > 00:16:40,960 Sometimes I'll see companies that just for SEO purposes have 368 00:16:40,960 - > 00:16:44,799 a lot of blogs or information on their website that include 369 00:16:44,799 - > 00:16:48,639 disease words and these trigger words, as I call them, but it's 370 00:16:48,639 - > 00:16:49,759 not about anything they sell. 371 00:16:49,759 - > 00:16:52,639 It might be about ashwagata, but they don't sell ashwagata. 372 00:16:52,639 - > 00:16:54,559 That's kind of like okay, right? 373 00:16:54,559 - > 00:16:56,639 It's they're not, there's not, they're not getting that 374 00:16:56,639 - > 00:16:58,799 commercial bridge or that commercial benefit for it. 375 00:16:58,799 - > 00:17:02,320 So there's kind of an another uh you know possible idea that 376 00:17:02,320 - > 00:17:03,039 some people do. 377 00:17:03,440 - > 00:17:06,880 Tina Maddock: Yeah, it's also um interesting because I I think 378 00:17:06,880 - > 00:17:10,480 there are many people who don't have an e-commerce website. 379 00:17:10,480 - > 00:17:12,400 So talk to us about that. 380 00:17:12,400 - > 00:17:15,680 They do have a storefront, it might sell those products. 381 00:17:15,680 - > 00:17:20,160 Is that enough space or is that still right in the line that's 382 00:17:20,160 - > 00:17:21,119 too close? 383 00:17:22,400 - > 00:17:26,160 Asa Waldstein: Well, the more public something is, the more 384 00:17:26,160 - > 00:17:30,799 the wider net it casts, and so the wider the wider net for for 385 00:17:30,799 - > 00:17:31,680 scrutiny happens. 386 00:17:31,680 - > 00:17:36,400 So if you if some company has a web a website, social media, 387 00:17:36,400 - > 00:17:38,799 even if they only have an Instagram page or whatever it 388 00:17:38,799 - > 00:17:40,640 may be, that is kind of out there. 389 00:17:40,640 - > 00:17:44,640 Now let's say they have no online presence at all for 390 00:17:44,640 - > 00:17:49,119 whatever reason, I'm not sure why, but if they if they do, and 391 00:17:49,119 - > 00:17:52,640 and I found this as we we discussed before, I found this 392 00:17:52,640 - > 00:17:56,480 with some of the the retailers at this at the So Expo at the 393 00:17:56,480 - > 00:17:57,440 SENPA show. 394 00:17:57,440 - > 00:18:02,960 If you're not selling online, you're you're less likely to be 395 00:18:02,960 - > 00:18:03,519 noticed. 396 00:18:03,519 - > 00:18:06,400 But of course, all marketing should be compliant. 397 00:18:06,400 - > 00:18:11,279 So if a I'm just gonna run through a scenario. 398 00:18:11,279 - > 00:18:14,799 Let's say a retailer doesn't have an online presence at all, 399 00:18:14,799 - > 00:18:18,400 but then in their store they've got shelf talkers and signs that 400 00:18:18,400 - > 00:18:21,920 say we'll stick with ashwagandha, ashwagandha for 401 00:18:21,920 - > 00:18:26,240 depression, turmeric turmeric and curcumanoids for arthritis. 402 00:18:26,240 - > 00:18:31,519 Now, someone would actually have to come in that store, an 403 00:18:31,519 - > 00:18:33,920 agency or an attorney to s to see that. 404 00:18:33,920 - > 00:18:38,640 So maybe if you're remote in a middle some small town 405 00:18:38,640 - > 00:18:41,279 somewhere, that's less likely to happen. 406 00:18:41,279 - > 00:18:44,480 Now, where I've seen companies get into trouble, this happens 407 00:18:44,480 - > 00:18:48,480 also with farmers' markets too, is if someone then posts a 408 00:18:48,480 - > 00:18:48,960 picture. 409 00:18:48,960 - > 00:18:51,839 Hey, you know, I was at the store today and I saw this 410 00:18:51,839 - > 00:18:52,000 thing. 411 00:18:52,000 - > 00:18:54,799 If that goes, if they then post something, then that goes into 412 00:18:54,799 - > 00:18:58,160 the World Wide Web and then it's the algorithms and stuff can 413 00:18:58,160 - > 00:18:59,279 pick on it, pick up on it. 414 00:18:59,680 - > 00:19:00,799 Tina Maddock: Then it's very public. 415 00:19:01,119 - > 00:19:01,599 unknown: Yeah. 416 00:19:01,839 - > 00:19:04,640 Tina Maddock: Um, okay, so one of the things that we had talked 417 00:19:04,640 - > 00:19:08,240 about was how surprised you were that so many of the smaller 418 00:19:08,240 - > 00:19:12,960 retailers don't have an online presence, which it just that is 419 00:19:12,960 - > 00:19:17,119 surprising, um, especially if it's just a one-location store. 420 00:19:17,119 - > 00:19:22,720 I can only attribute that if they're thriving and doing well, 421 00:19:22,720 - > 00:19:28,640 to like an amazing investment and community, like showing up 422 00:19:28,640 - > 00:19:34,960 everywhere in their community and offering like um community 423 00:19:34,960 - > 00:19:39,359 events at their place that continues or they've got an 424 00:19:39,359 - > 00:19:43,680 amazing referral engine that just keeps driving people to 425 00:19:43,680 - > 00:19:44,880 their store. 426 00:19:44,880 - > 00:19:50,480 Um and I would also suggest that even if you do nothing 427 00:19:50,480 - > 00:19:53,039 else, that you get a Google Business profile. 428 00:19:53,039 - > 00:19:58,319 Because when someone searches online on their maps, when 429 00:19:58,319 - > 00:20:02,640 they're looking to buy a product or a type of product, they 430 00:20:02,640 - > 00:20:06,480 might look up supplements or vitamin store or natural food 431 00:20:06,480 - > 00:20:10,880 store, and you showing up on that map at that time with some 432 00:20:10,880 - > 00:20:15,440 decent number of reviews and a pretty high review level makes a 433 00:20:15,440 - > 00:20:16,160 huge difference. 434 00:20:16,160 - > 00:20:19,119 You're gonna pull in people that just never noticed you 435 00:20:19,119 - > 00:20:19,680 before. 436 00:20:19,680 - > 00:20:22,319 Um, so I would highly encourage that. 437 00:20:22,319 - > 00:20:27,599 But doing that and getting reviews could have us stepping 438 00:20:27,599 - > 00:20:29,599 in some compliance issues. 439 00:20:29,599 - > 00:20:31,279 So talk to us a little bit about that. 440 00:20:31,680 - > 00:20:33,039 Asa Waldstein: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. 441 00:20:33,039 - > 00:20:36,240 I love doing these discussions because I always learn so much 442 00:20:36,240 - > 00:20:37,519 from experts like you, Tina. 443 00:20:37,519 - > 00:20:39,039 So thank you again for sharing that. 444 00:20:39,039 - > 00:20:42,799 So let's say there is a what's it called again? 445 00:20:42,880 - > 00:20:44,640 Tina Maddock: The Google Google Business, yeah. 446 00:20:44,880 - > 00:20:45,599 Asa Waldstein: Okay, Google Business. 447 00:20:45,599 - > 00:20:48,559 Let's say that Google Business Count sounds like a no-brainer, 448 00:20:48,559 - > 00:20:52,000 even if companies don't want to do an online presence, and 449 00:20:52,000 - > 00:20:53,359 there's reviews on there. 450 00:20:53,359 - > 00:20:55,359 Of course, those are third-party reviews. 451 00:20:55,359 - > 00:20:59,599 So company, if they didn't if they're not nefarious, meaning 452 00:20:59,599 - > 00:21:02,960 they don't have their cousins or uncles or spouses writing 453 00:21:02,960 - > 00:21:07,200 reviews that are fake for them, or they're not compensating you 454 00:21:07,200 - > 00:21:10,319 know, people with free product to write reviews, fake write 455 00:21:10,319 - > 00:21:11,279 favorable reviews. 456 00:21:11,279 - > 00:21:14,240 Let's say the reviews truly are third party, non-curated, 457 00:21:14,240 - > 00:21:17,759 non-compensated, company you know can't control them. 458 00:21:17,759 - > 00:21:20,880 So where where companies can potentially step in hot water? 459 00:21:20,880 - > 00:21:23,839 And I don't know if on Google Business Reviews, if the company 460 00:21:23,839 - > 00:21:25,039 can then engage with those. 461 00:21:25,039 - > 00:21:25,359 Yes. 462 00:21:25,359 - > 00:21:26,799 Oh, okay. 463 00:21:26,799 - > 00:21:27,920 So this is a good one. 464 00:21:27,920 - > 00:21:31,279 This is a this is a landmine to stay away up, stay away from. 465 00:21:31,279 - > 00:21:34,400 So if someone wrote, hey, this product worked great for my 466 00:21:34,400 - > 00:21:38,720 arthritis and my depression, if you leave it alone, especially 467 00:21:38,720 - > 00:21:41,680 if it's on this third party widget, the Google reviews, 468 00:21:41,680 - > 00:21:44,559 business reviews, that type of thing, it's kind of this gray 469 00:21:44,559 - > 00:21:46,480 area, essentially not responsible. 470 00:21:46,480 - > 00:21:49,599 But if you as a company then say thanks, hey Tina, thank you 471 00:21:49,599 - > 00:21:54,160 so much for that review, it lets the agencies, the authorities 472 00:21:54,160 - > 00:21:56,079 know, hey, I've noticed that. 473 00:21:56,079 - > 00:21:59,119 And it's considered endorsing the testimonial, and therefore 474 00:21:59,119 - > 00:21:59,759 you've adopted. 475 00:21:59,759 - > 00:22:01,200 It as your marketing. 476 00:22:01,200 - > 00:22:06,559 So if you fight the urge to comment these claims, that's 477 00:22:06,559 - > 00:22:09,039 probably a good, a good entry-level strategy. 478 00:22:09,359 - > 00:22:12,480 Tina Maddock: Yeah, and just to for everyone to be aware of how 479 00:22:12,480 - > 00:22:16,319 that sort of works from a marketing perspective, if you 480 00:22:16,319 - > 00:22:21,359 don't respond to every review, Google sort of downgrades that 481 00:22:21,359 - > 00:22:25,200 review and your account from showing up in search. 482 00:22:25,200 - > 00:22:29,920 And um, so the best practice that's out there from any 483 00:22:29,920 - > 00:22:32,559 marketing firm, and maybe if they're not in this business, 484 00:22:32,559 - > 00:22:35,759 they won't realize that this is kind of an issue, would be you 485 00:22:35,759 - > 00:22:37,519 always respond to every review. 486 00:22:37,519 - > 00:22:42,720 And ASA is saying don't always respond automatically to every 487 00:22:42,720 - > 00:22:43,039 review. 488 00:22:43,039 - > 00:22:47,119 Take a minute and think about it, which also means that many 489 00:22:47,119 - > 00:22:52,000 people are hiring um interns or you know, people who are just 490 00:22:52,000 - > 00:22:56,960 not as educated in this business to respond on their behalf to 491 00:22:56,960 - > 00:23:00,799 Google reviews just to continue that interaction so that they 492 00:23:00,799 - > 00:23:03,920 always show up in search, which normally would be a best 493 00:23:03,920 - > 00:23:04,319 practice. 494 00:23:04,319 - > 00:23:09,119 So a little bit of education can go a long way for that team 495 00:23:09,119 - > 00:23:13,440 or that person or whoever might be interacting as you on the 496 00:23:13,440 - > 00:23:17,599 Google Business profile, Facebook, any of these other 497 00:23:17,599 - > 00:23:22,640 Yelp, any of these other platforms that will offer the 498 00:23:22,640 - > 00:23:27,119 ability to have a review and a two-way discussion between you 499 00:23:27,119 - > 00:23:28,000 and the person. 500 00:23:28,000 - > 00:23:32,880 So a little bit of education would be wise just to talk 501 00:23:32,880 - > 00:23:36,079 through, like if there are any of these warning phrases, then 502 00:23:36,079 - > 00:23:40,000 maybe you just step back from engaging, even though normally 503 00:23:40,000 - > 00:23:41,279 that would be a best practice. 504 00:23:41,599 - > 00:23:44,319 Asa Waldstein: Yeah, it's super it's super counterintuitive, 505 00:23:44,319 - > 00:23:47,599 especially if people are coming from other industries, 506 00:23:47,599 - > 00:23:49,200 essentially any other industry. 507 00:23:49,200 - > 00:23:52,480 Attack apparel, it's engage, engage, engage. 508 00:23:52,480 - > 00:23:55,359 Finding or true to engage publicly is a good idea. 509 00:23:55,359 - > 00:23:58,559 And also I love your point about making sure that your 510 00:23:58,559 - > 00:24:00,799 social teams trained in compliance. 511 00:24:00,799 - > 00:24:06,720 You know, there are the first and the last protectors of your 512 00:24:06,720 - > 00:24:07,359 compliance. 513 00:24:07,359 - > 00:24:11,599 So oftentimes companies overlook bringing them into the 514 00:24:11,599 - > 00:24:14,000 fold with training interns or whatever. 515 00:24:14,000 - > 00:24:16,400 But yeah, it's it's really, really important. 516 00:24:16,400 - > 00:24:17,839 It doesn't have to be complicated. 517 00:24:17,839 - > 00:24:21,839 I mean, literally listening to this podcast will get you a lot 518 00:24:21,839 - > 00:24:24,000 of a lot of the way there and what not to do. 519 00:24:24,000 - > 00:24:28,319 But it is interesting to hear about how Google Business might 520 00:24:28,319 - > 00:24:32,480 downgrade you if you don't engage with with with everyone. 521 00:24:32,480 - > 00:24:35,680 So, you know, being smart about your engagement, I think is a 522 00:24:35,680 - > 00:24:36,799 really important idea. 523 00:24:36,799 - > 00:24:39,759 I mean, maybe most of the reviews are are just fine. 524 00:24:39,759 - > 00:24:40,960 Hey, I love this. 525 00:24:40,960 - > 00:24:42,240 Everyone's so friendly. 526 00:24:42,240 - > 00:24:45,440 When I walk in the store, this lady named Tina smiles at me. 527 00:24:45,440 - > 00:24:47,279 Okay, sweet, that's great. 528 00:24:47,279 - > 00:24:51,359 But then walk into the store and I cured my arthritis. 529 00:24:51,359 - > 00:24:51,599 Right. 530 00:24:51,599 - > 00:24:55,119 You want to certainly stay away from that one if you can. 531 00:24:55,519 - > 00:24:56,640 Tina Maddock: Yeah, for sure. 532 00:24:56,640 - > 00:25:01,119 And if um, I do think we had two podcasts last season that 533 00:25:01,119 - > 00:25:04,079 would be very helpful for anyone who's working on your behalf. 534 00:25:04,079 - > 00:25:08,880 And just remember that if um someone is interacting as you 535 00:25:08,880 - > 00:25:12,480 online, that means that you are legally responsible for what 536 00:25:12,480 - > 00:25:13,519 they're saying and doing. 537 00:25:13,519 - > 00:25:17,920 And we've seen plenty of cunt companies like just totally lose 538 00:25:17,920 - > 00:25:24,000 reputation over what someone as an agent is working on their 539 00:25:24,000 - > 00:25:25,839 behalf and and posting things online. 540 00:25:25,839 - > 00:25:29,279 So making sure you're monitoring that, approving it, 541 00:25:29,279 - > 00:25:32,319 or keeping a close eye on it, making sure that people are 542 00:25:32,319 - > 00:25:33,599 trained is really important. 543 00:25:33,599 - > 00:25:38,799 Whether it's your values or, hey, compliance legally, you are 544 00:25:38,799 - > 00:25:42,880 um it's your liability that's at risk here. 545 00:25:42,880 - > 00:25:46,240 Um, but there's two podcasts from the previous season, and 546 00:25:46,240 - > 00:25:50,000 one was we went through with several people who actually 547 00:25:50,000 - > 00:25:55,440 helped write the Dé legislation and talked about what it was 548 00:25:55,440 - > 00:25:59,440 like, how how Dé even came about to begin with. 549 00:25:59,440 - > 00:26:02,319 And then we talked to some people who were younger in the 550 00:26:02,319 - > 00:26:04,480 industry and what that looks like right now. 551 00:26:04,480 - > 00:26:09,200 So that's a really good podcast that I think everyone could see 552 00:26:09,200 - > 00:26:10,640 will link to it in the notes. 553 00:26:10,640 - > 00:26:15,440 And then um, Asa, you were on the program last season as well. 554 00:26:15,440 - > 00:26:19,440 And we went through a lot of scenarios of what about this? 555 00:26:19,440 - > 00:26:20,319 Would this work? 556 00:26:20,319 - > 00:26:21,680 Could we do this instead? 557 00:26:21,680 - > 00:26:25,039 And so just listening to a couple of podcasts could get you 558 00:26:25,039 - > 00:26:25,839 a long way. 559 00:26:26,319 - > 00:26:26,880 Asa Waldstein: Absolutely. 560 00:26:26,880 - > 00:26:27,839 Yeah, good reminder. 561 00:26:27,839 - > 00:26:30,559 Well, I'm gonna look for that other podcast because that 562 00:26:30,559 - > 00:26:31,519 sounds really good. 563 00:26:31,519 - > 00:26:34,079 You could tell that I was getting excited, like, oh, this 564 00:26:34,079 - > 00:26:37,119 is just this is what I love to listen to when I'm driving or at 565 00:26:37,119 - > 00:26:39,519 the gym and or going for bike rides and that type of thing. 566 00:26:39,519 - > 00:26:42,880 So, yeah, I'm excited to certainly check that one out as 567 00:26:42,880 - > 00:26:43,119 well. 568 00:26:43,359 - > 00:26:45,519 Tina Maddock: I will shoot you a link as soon as we're done 569 00:26:45,519 - > 00:26:48,319 recording this so you can listen, take a listen. 570 00:26:48,319 - > 00:26:51,359 Um, okay, take us through some more scenarios. 571 00:26:51,359 - > 00:26:52,880 We've named a couple. 572 00:26:53,279 - > 00:26:55,839 Asa Waldstein: Yeah, I mean, we touched on product product 573 00:26:55,839 - > 00:26:57,920 reviews, but I'll go a little deeper on that. 574 00:26:57,920 - > 00:27:03,039 So if you have a review widget on your website, trustpilot, 575 00:27:03,039 - > 00:27:06,160 yappo, that type of thing, it's pulling in these reviews. 576 00:27:06,160 - > 00:27:10,000 Agencies are kind of hands-off as long as they do look like 577 00:27:10,000 - > 00:27:10,799 they're third party. 578 00:27:10,799 - > 00:27:13,440 They're not curated, they're not on a, you know, 579 00:27:13,440 - > 00:27:17,200 acewaltstein.com slash reviews are not curated on a special 580 00:27:17,200 - > 00:27:18,240 type of URL. 581 00:27:18,240 - > 00:27:20,319 So if they're third party, they're coming in, they're 582 00:27:20,319 - > 00:27:22,960 non-curated, non-compensated, all those other type of things, 583 00:27:22,960 - > 00:27:24,960 agencies are generally hands-off. 584 00:27:24,960 - > 00:27:28,400 But then even on the on our website, just like with the 585 00:27:28,400 - > 00:27:32,000 Google Business Reviews, don't engage with the disease ones 586 00:27:32,000 - > 00:27:35,440 because there's several warning, there's at least a few warning 587 00:27:35,440 - > 00:27:38,240 letters where they set a precedent for you're engaging 588 00:27:38,240 - > 00:27:41,599 with the product review, so you're endorsing it as a 589 00:27:41,599 - > 00:27:44,079 testimonial to flip that to social media. 590 00:27:44,079 - > 00:27:45,599 Same thing on a social wall. 591 00:27:45,599 - > 00:27:47,279 You could see this trend here. 592 00:27:47,279 - > 00:27:50,000 Someone writes something on your social wall, it's this kind 593 00:27:50,000 - > 00:27:50,720 of gray area. 594 00:27:50,720 - > 00:27:53,200 Maybe you want to leave it alone, maybe you want to delete 595 00:27:53,200 - > 00:27:53,440 it. 596 00:27:53,440 - > 00:27:57,039 But if you do decide to leave it up, don't engage with the 597 00:27:57,039 - > 00:27:58,240 ones with disease claims. 598 00:27:58,240 - > 00:28:02,240 That includes liking, smiley face emojiing, saying thanks. 599 00:28:02,240 - > 00:28:06,720 I was actually looking at a website yesterday that was a 600 00:28:06,720 - > 00:28:09,839 programmatic type website where the reviews were coming in, but 601 00:28:09,839 - > 00:28:13,119 then so coming in through the third-party widget, kind of you 602 00:28:13,119 - > 00:28:14,559 know, kind of okay-ish. 603 00:28:14,559 - > 00:28:17,519 But then part of the programmatic was they're also 604 00:28:17,519 - > 00:28:19,759 posting to a carousel. 605 00:28:19,759 - > 00:28:21,519 So they're basically showcasing them. 606 00:28:21,519 - > 00:28:23,839 And I did a review and I said, Hey, do you know this? 607 00:28:23,839 - > 00:28:28,000 There's literally like cancers and Alzheimer's claims just in a 608 00:28:28,000 - > 00:28:28,480 banner. 609 00:28:28,480 - > 00:28:31,359 Now, anything in a banner, it's without a doubt. 610 00:28:31,359 - > 00:28:32,880 It's marketing, it's labeling. 611 00:28:32,880 - > 00:28:35,839 This person didn't even know that the reviews were coming in 612 00:28:35,839 - > 00:28:40,160 third party and then populating, probably against his knowledge, 613 00:28:40,160 - > 00:28:41,279 to these banners. 614 00:28:41,279 - > 00:28:45,680 That'd be that's a fun example of wow, this can get you in a 615 00:28:45,680 - > 00:28:46,319 lot of trouble. 616 00:28:46,319 - > 00:28:49,759 It's not there's no malintent there, but you know, based on 617 00:28:49,759 - > 00:28:51,200 enforcement trends, you'd want to see. 618 00:28:51,680 - > 00:28:54,079 Tina Maddock: Yeah, man, there's so many plugins that you can 619 00:28:54,079 - > 00:28:58,400 use that just pull and you can write some parameters around it. 620 00:28:58,400 - > 00:29:04,079 But um, and there are a few softwares that will even say let 621 00:29:04,079 - > 00:29:06,880 you have flag specific words. 622 00:29:06,880 - > 00:29:10,960 Um, and usually that's been based on obscenities, but now, 623 00:29:10,960 - > 00:29:15,519 you know, for this, you can also um pop in like specific disease 624 00:29:15,519 - > 00:29:17,599 claims that you're like, don't allow these. 625 00:29:17,599 - > 00:29:22,160 But even then, it's hard to catch everything before it gets 626 00:29:22,160 - > 00:29:23,680 posted because it's immediate. 627 00:29:23,680 - > 00:29:27,279 So every 15 minutes or whatever, the plugins pull in 628 00:29:27,279 - > 00:29:30,240 that um review onto your website. 629 00:29:30,240 - > 00:29:33,759 And truly, anyone who's listening to this, you only need 630 00:29:33,759 - > 00:29:38,000 three or four reviews on your website itself to help people 631 00:29:38,000 - > 00:29:39,440 convert into clients. 632 00:29:39,440 - > 00:29:39,920 Okay. 633 00:29:39,920 - > 00:29:43,519 Where the number of reviews become really important are on 634 00:29:43,519 - > 00:29:44,559 the platforms themselves. 635 00:29:44,559 - > 00:29:48,160 So, like on Google Business, if you've got a five-star rating 636 00:29:48,160 - > 00:29:50,880 and you only have three or four people who have reviewed you, 637 00:29:50,880 - > 00:29:55,519 that's seeing just trust from the customer that it's not that 638 00:29:55,519 - > 00:29:56,319 trustworthy. 639 00:29:56,319 - > 00:29:58,000 It's not enough people. 640 00:29:58,000 - > 00:30:02,319 So you want quantity there, and you just want some quality 641 00:30:02,319 - > 00:30:06,240 quotes that you pull in very specifically, you curate them 642 00:30:06,240 - > 00:30:07,200 onto your website. 643 00:30:07,200 - > 00:30:11,440 And you will not have any negative um ramifications if you 644 00:30:11,440 - > 00:30:13,519 don't have those things feeding into your website. 645 00:30:13,519 - > 00:30:16,960 So I think for this industry, that's the safest bet is don't 646 00:30:16,960 - > 00:30:18,240 do those automations. 647 00:30:19,039 - > 00:30:20,160 Asa Waldstein: I'm learning so much. 648 00:30:20,160 - > 00:30:21,759 This is really helpful. 649 00:30:21,759 - > 00:30:22,400 Thank you. 650 00:30:22,720 - > 00:30:23,839 Tina Maddock: Yeah, absolutely. 651 00:30:23,839 - > 00:30:26,160 All right, we've talked about reviews. 652 00:30:26,160 - > 00:30:28,000 Um, so what else? 653 00:30:28,000 - > 00:30:30,240 Are were there any other scenarios that were kind of 654 00:30:30,240 - > 00:30:33,599 coming up at Soho with people poking you like, hey, what if I 655 00:30:33,599 - > 00:30:34,160 do this? 656 00:30:34,559 - > 00:30:36,960 Asa Waldstein: Talked about reviews, talked about clinical 657 00:30:36,960 - > 00:30:39,359 study citations and and references. 658 00:30:39,359 - > 00:30:42,880 A lot was in the we've lightly touched on it in the 659 00:30:42,880 - > 00:30:43,359 ingredients. 660 00:30:43,359 - > 00:30:45,920 So if they're talking about their ingredients, if they sell 661 00:30:45,920 - > 00:30:49,759 them in their product, it's you know, ashwagata, this and this 662 00:30:49,759 - > 00:30:52,160 and this, and turmeric this and this and this, vitamin C for 663 00:30:52,160 - > 00:30:55,200 this and this and this, even if it's not labeling, it's not on, 664 00:30:55,200 - > 00:30:58,079 you know, it's not on the label, it's not on the product page, 665 00:30:58,079 - > 00:30:59,839 it's still considered marketing. 666 00:30:59,839 - > 00:31:04,640 There's a lot of companies that have been building lots of 667 00:31:04,640 - > 00:31:10,319 content for many years, and maybe they know more about 668 00:31:10,319 - > 00:31:13,279 compliance than they used to, or they bought a company from 669 00:31:13,279 - > 00:31:14,960 someone else, or they inherited it. 670 00:31:14,960 - > 00:31:18,720 I mean, that's really common, especially in the the Soho 671 00:31:18,720 - > 00:31:19,119 community. 672 00:31:19,119 - > 00:31:22,240 They're they're multi-generational stores. 673 00:31:22,240 - > 00:31:29,440 So they what was compliant in five years ago in someone else's 674 00:31:29,440 - > 00:31:32,400 mind might not be compliant now because we've taken a bite of 675 00:31:32,400 - > 00:31:33,039 the forbidden fruit. 676 00:31:33,039 - > 00:31:34,559 We know we can't make disease claims. 677 00:31:34,559 - > 00:31:38,319 So the kind of hey, I didn't know that was on my website. 678 00:31:38,319 - > 00:31:44,000 I got that a lot, which is wait, am I responsible if this 679 00:31:44,000 - > 00:31:47,039 is 10 years old and I didn't even know it was there and I 680 00:31:47,039 - > 00:31:48,880 bought the the store or the website? 681 00:31:48,880 - > 00:31:51,599 Yeah, the answer is you're certainly responsible. 682 00:31:51,599 - > 00:31:56,799 And oftentimes I'll see these that's mostly blogs, but it 683 00:31:56,799 - > 00:32:00,000 could be product pages or what the science section or 684 00:32:00,000 - > 00:32:04,000 discussion where there's these blogs that are really pushing it 685 00:32:04,000 - > 00:32:04,480 hard. 686 00:32:04,480 - > 00:32:08,559 And I don't really see the the reason for when we're not 687 00:32:08,559 - > 00:32:11,440 supposed to do that, but it's not worth the squeeze. 688 00:32:11,440 - > 00:32:14,160 If we kind of look dig down, and I'm sure you do this with 689 00:32:14,160 - > 00:32:15,680 clients, what's the analytics? 690 00:32:15,680 - > 00:32:17,119 What's the metrics on that? 691 00:32:17,119 - > 00:32:20,000 Yeah, is this blog converting? 692 00:32:20,000 - > 00:32:24,640 Because definitely if it's not converting or no one's visiting 693 00:32:24,640 - > 00:32:26,160 it, there's no point in being there. 694 00:32:26,160 - > 00:32:29,039 If it is converting, then just clean it up and make it a little 695 00:32:29,039 - > 00:32:29,680 more compliant. 696 00:32:29,680 - > 00:32:32,880 So kind of being smart about the metrics and the analytics, 697 00:32:32,880 - > 00:32:35,599 that that was a discussion that came up quite a bit too. 698 00:32:36,000 - > 00:32:38,480 Tina Maddock: Yeah, and most of the time you don't even have to 699 00:32:38,480 - > 00:32:44,319 look for the metrics because if they're old, old articles, a 700 00:32:44,319 - > 00:32:45,759 couple of things are happening. 701 00:32:45,759 - > 00:32:50,640 They're probably not being served up anywhere in organic 702 00:32:50,640 - > 00:32:52,880 search anymore because it's just too old. 703 00:32:52,880 - > 00:32:56,400 Like five minutes from now, we're gonna have new slang from 704 00:32:56,400 - > 00:32:57,920 the young people coming out. 705 00:32:57,920 - > 00:33:01,200 That's why these TikToks get shared all the time of like, 706 00:33:01,200 - > 00:33:03,200 here's the new language to use. 707 00:33:03,200 - > 00:33:07,759 And recency is really important to all the search engines and 708 00:33:07,759 - > 00:33:08,319 to AI. 709 00:33:08,319 - > 00:33:11,119 AI is becoming a huge part of search right now. 710 00:33:11,119 - > 00:33:14,640 And so recency does matter. 711 00:33:14,640 - > 00:33:18,640 Um, and I know some people, and the way we used to do it, 712 00:33:18,640 - > 00:33:22,079 quantity was a big part of showing up in search, but now 713 00:33:22,079 - > 00:33:23,519 it's organization. 714 00:33:23,519 - > 00:33:27,599 Do I have a quantity of things talking about a specific topic? 715 00:33:27,599 - > 00:33:31,680 And is it organized well that as a user, I can look at a 716 00:33:31,680 - > 00:33:34,960 specific topic and there's a clear path for me to get from 717 00:33:34,960 - > 00:33:37,200 one question that I have to another. 718 00:33:37,200 - > 00:33:42,079 So it's a great idea to look at those old blogs, even two years 719 00:33:42,079 - > 00:33:46,480 ago, is likely not going to be your best content that's serving 720 00:33:46,480 - > 00:33:46,960 you well. 721 00:33:46,960 - > 00:33:51,200 And the minute that you hit update to that, which is usually 722 00:33:51,200 - > 00:33:55,839 very easy as a blog post, and all you need to do for the next 723 00:33:55,839 - > 00:33:59,359 year, especially if you've got 10 years worth of content, is go 724 00:33:59,359 - > 00:34:02,480 in there every week, every couple of days, and update an 725 00:34:02,480 - > 00:34:07,440 old blog post to be more organized and to be updated with 726 00:34:07,440 - > 00:34:12,480 the new um with the new understanding of compliance. 727 00:34:12,480 - > 00:34:15,599 And you're gonna start showing up in more search results, 728 00:34:15,599 - > 00:34:17,039 including AI links. 729 00:34:17,360 - > 00:34:18,000 Asa Waldstein: Oh wow. 730 00:34:18,000 - > 00:34:18,559 Okay. 731 00:34:18,559 - > 00:34:20,480 I I really love that. 732 00:34:20,480 - > 00:34:24,239 So if there was a timestamp or a date on something like that, 733 00:34:24,239 - > 00:34:28,159 would they update the the date, you know, re re-reviewed on this 734 00:34:28,159 - > 00:34:28,800 date type of thing? 735 00:34:28,880 - > 00:34:32,719 Tina Maddock: Does that yes, it does say updated as of X date. 736 00:34:34,000 - > 00:34:34,559 Asa Waldstein: I love it. 737 00:34:34,559 - > 00:34:38,880 Yeah, how do we get the the AI search quote search engines to 738 00:34:38,880 - > 00:34:39,199 find us? 739 00:34:39,199 - > 00:34:41,679 I mean, that's I'm sure you're asked that all the time. 740 00:34:42,000 - > 00:34:45,920 Tina Maddock: Yeah, and I mean, the big piece from an SEO 741 00:34:45,920 - > 00:34:49,519 perspective, that's how it's shifting the most, is that AI is 742 00:34:49,519 - > 00:34:51,280 now responding, but not just that. 743 00:34:51,280 - > 00:34:54,239 I don't know if you've noticed in Google now, there's a tab 744 00:34:54,239 - > 00:34:57,519 that says interact with AI about this topic. 745 00:34:57,519 - > 00:35:01,760 So they are not even looking at anything lower down the page 746 00:35:01,760 - > 00:35:02,320 any longer. 747 00:35:02,320 - > 00:35:06,320 They might see you quoted as a resource, but very few are now 748 00:35:06,320 - > 00:35:07,679 linking, clicking through. 749 00:35:07,679 - > 00:35:12,000 The clicks are going way down, the impressions are still there. 750 00:35:12,000 - > 00:35:17,840 Um, so showing up in the AI piece as a ranked source, um, 751 00:35:17,840 - > 00:35:22,480 what it takes to do that is again creating these hub pages 752 00:35:22,480 - > 00:35:27,440 that help give your user a path on the journey to finding out 753 00:35:27,440 - > 00:35:28,480 about this topic. 754 00:35:28,480 - > 00:35:33,599 So even if it's about something like vitamin B or vitamin D, if 755 00:35:33,599 - > 00:35:36,639 there are certain pieces where you can answer some questions 756 00:35:36,639 - > 00:35:40,239 and follow the user along their journey and have hyperlinks at 757 00:35:40,239 - > 00:35:44,480 the very top, you're more likely to show up as a resource for 758 00:35:44,480 - > 00:35:45,119 AI. 759 00:35:45,119 - > 00:35:49,679 And people might click through in that than um in the old days 760 00:35:49,679 - > 00:35:52,480 where you could just publish a bunch of blog articles and you 761 00:35:52,480 - > 00:35:54,960 start showing up for different keywords, it's just not the way 762 00:35:54,960 - > 00:35:55,760 it works anymore. 763 00:35:55,760 - > 00:35:57,519 Organization is king. 764 00:35:58,480 - > 00:36:00,000 Asa Waldstein: That's so fascinating. 765 00:36:00,000 - > 00:36:02,719 And yeah, like I said, I love learning. 766 00:36:02,719 - > 00:36:03,440 This is so great. 767 00:36:03,440 - > 00:36:05,440 I'm learning, learning so much. 768 00:36:05,440 - > 00:36:10,239 And so it sounds like if if people, if I could just ask you 769 00:36:10,239 - > 00:36:11,519 a question, if yeah, sure. 770 00:36:11,519 - > 00:36:14,320 What what type of folks do you like to work with? 771 00:36:14,320 - > 00:36:17,039 And what what type of problems are you seeing that you're 772 00:36:17,039 - > 00:36:19,119 helping you're helping people solve? 773 00:36:19,519 - > 00:36:23,360 Tina Maddock: Yeah, so I think the biggest problems that we're 774 00:36:23,360 - > 00:36:28,000 helping people solve are they didn't get into this business to 775 00:36:28,000 - > 00:36:28,320 market. 776 00:36:28,320 - > 00:36:33,840 They got into this business to help serve people, and they've 777 00:36:33,840 - > 00:36:34,480 tried this. 778 00:36:34,480 - > 00:36:37,199 They're they they're kind of throwing spaghetti up against a 779 00:36:37,199 - > 00:36:38,880 wall to see what sticks. 780 00:36:38,880 - > 00:36:42,159 And I will tell you that sometimes they're doing the 781 00:36:42,159 - > 00:36:46,400 exact right things, but just maybe there are tweaks around 782 00:36:46,400 - > 00:36:50,480 how you fix the way that they're doing them that end up making a 783 00:36:50,480 - > 00:36:52,880 difference because they'll be like, I tried social media, it 784 00:36:52,880 - > 00:36:53,280 didn't work. 785 00:36:53,280 - > 00:36:55,119 I tried emails, it didn't work. 786 00:36:55,119 - > 00:36:59,599 And so we come in and do a review of the entire store, 787 00:36:59,599 - > 00:37:03,039 including the inventory that you have and looking at different 788 00:37:03,039 - > 00:37:06,000 margins of products in your store layout. 789 00:37:06,000 - > 00:37:10,719 Um, if you're doing functional versus brands, um, and just, I 790 00:37:10,719 - > 00:37:13,920 mean, Asa, you wouldn't believe how many times we're like, you 791 00:37:13,920 - > 00:37:17,280 just have to clean up the store because when people walk in and 792 00:37:17,280 - > 00:37:21,440 things are a mess, or they look a little grungy, or maybe the 793 00:37:21,440 - > 00:37:23,760 lighting, like there's some light bulbs out that haven't 794 00:37:23,760 - > 00:37:27,519 been changed in a little bit, that communicates something, a 795 00:37:27,519 - > 00:37:29,599 lack of care, a lack of cleanliness. 796 00:37:29,599 - > 00:37:32,639 And we're dealing with people who really care about their 797 00:37:32,639 - > 00:37:33,280 bodies. 798 00:37:33,280 - > 00:37:35,519 This is that kind of industry. 799 00:37:35,519 - > 00:37:38,960 So the minute that you show up as a little bit too messy or 800 00:37:38,960 - > 00:37:44,639 grungy or something that's not exactly clean online in your 801 00:37:44,639 - > 00:37:48,719 store anyway, um, then that's gonna be a problem for 802 00:37:48,719 - > 00:37:51,840 conversion or for you know, people coming back again and 803 00:37:51,840 - > 00:37:52,320 again. 804 00:37:52,320 - > 00:37:57,039 Um, so we do little tweaks and we review things like, hey, do 805 00:37:57,039 - > 00:37:58,559 you have enough Google reviews? 806 00:37:58,559 - > 00:37:59,519 Is it high enough? 807 00:37:59,519 - > 00:38:04,079 Are you 4.3 when down the road someone's a 4.7 and they've got 808 00:38:04,079 - > 00:38:06,159 500 reviews and you've got 24? 809 00:38:06,159 - > 00:38:10,000 There's just there are little things that when we're looking 810 00:38:10,000 - > 00:38:13,599 at how do you show up online, doesn't match your values and 811 00:38:13,599 - > 00:38:14,000 vision. 812 00:38:14,000 - > 00:38:18,800 Are you standing out the way that um customers actually 813 00:38:18,800 - > 00:38:19,519 experience you? 814 00:38:19,519 - > 00:38:21,599 Because there are a lot of people that just don't 815 00:38:21,599 - > 00:38:24,800 communicate their differentiation, whether it's 816 00:38:24,800 - > 00:38:27,920 consultation or they have products that no one else will 817 00:38:27,920 - > 00:38:31,119 have, or we give back to the community and we're always here 818 00:38:31,119 - > 00:38:32,159 and we're local. 819 00:38:32,159 - > 00:38:36,480 There are so many ways to stand out that um I think working in 820 00:38:36,480 - > 00:38:39,679 the store kind of blinds you to what's so special about you. 821 00:38:40,400 - > 00:38:44,400 Asa Waldstein: Yeah, it sounds like just a really professional 822 00:38:44,400 - > 00:38:46,880 experience, fresh set of eyes. 823 00:38:46,880 - > 00:38:47,280 Yeah. 824 00:38:47,280 - > 00:38:50,559 That also comes with candid feedback. 825 00:38:50,559 - > 00:38:53,840 And so that's really hard to find because you ask your 826 00:38:53,840 - > 00:38:56,880 friends or you get feedback, what do you think about this? 827 00:38:56,880 - > 00:39:01,199 Not that many people are gonna give you the best helpful 828 00:39:01,199 - > 00:39:01,519 advice. 829 00:39:01,519 - > 00:39:06,239 So it sounds like you're able to come in to be that new, new 830 00:39:06,239 - > 00:39:07,039 fresh eyes. 831 00:39:07,039 - > 00:39:10,159 You're seeing things that you know, if someone walked into my 832 00:39:10,159 - > 00:39:13,920 house right now, they'd see things that I'm just I they've 833 00:39:13,920 - > 00:39:15,360 been here for years, so I don't think about them. 834 00:39:15,360 - > 00:39:17,199 So that's just kind of human nature. 835 00:39:17,199 - > 00:39:22,000 And I can also tell that you keep a very clean and organized 836 00:39:22,000 - > 00:39:26,639 kitchen, which you also care about your food and health and 837 00:39:26,639 - > 00:39:27,679 all that other type of stuff. 838 00:39:27,679 - > 00:39:28,719 I'm just having fun with you. 839 00:39:28,719 - > 00:39:29,840 It looks beautiful in the background. 840 00:39:30,079 - > 00:39:30,800 Tina Maddock: Yeah, thank you. 841 00:39:30,800 - > 00:39:32,079 Um, but that's right. 842 00:39:32,079 - > 00:39:36,000 I mean, I I think when you show up a certain way, whether it's 843 00:39:36,000 - > 00:39:39,440 in person or online, you're communicating a lot, right? 844 00:39:39,440 - > 00:39:42,639 So if there's a if there are smiling people, there's so many 845 00:39:42,639 - > 00:39:45,760 websites we go to where they don't even have people. 846 00:39:45,760 - > 00:39:47,360 It's just like products. 847 00:39:47,360 - > 00:39:51,280 And that's fine if products are your key differentiation. 848 00:39:51,280 - > 00:39:54,559 But I'm gonna bet if I look at your reviews, people are talking 849 00:39:54,559 - > 00:39:57,599 about the friendly people that they talk to, how someone helped 850 00:39:57,599 - > 00:40:02,320 them when no one else would, and um all the community pieces, 851 00:40:02,320 - > 00:40:05,360 and that this is a place where you have an experience and no, 852 00:40:05,360 - > 00:40:07,760 it's not showing up on your website or your digital 853 00:40:07,760 - > 00:40:08,480 footprint. 854 00:40:08,480 - > 00:40:13,119 So recreating that online, just like you have it in the store. 855 00:40:13,119 - > 00:40:17,360 And and we can look very quickly at 14 different ways 856 00:40:17,360 - > 00:40:19,360 that you're communicating with people. 857 00:40:19,360 - > 00:40:22,960 And so where are some gaps where it's like, hey, this is 858 00:40:22,960 - > 00:40:25,760 who you are, but here's where it's not showing up online. 859 00:40:25,760 - > 00:40:29,440 And then the other thing we just love to do is connect 860 00:40:29,440 - > 00:40:33,039 people with tools and resources that they can use themselves, 861 00:40:33,039 - > 00:40:34,639 whether or not they work with us. 862 00:40:34,639 - > 00:40:38,159 So this podcast is one way that we do that for sure. 863 00:40:38,159 - > 00:40:42,480 But also, as people are getting more into AI and other 864 00:40:42,480 - > 00:40:46,400 marketing tools where they have some team that's interested in 865 00:40:46,400 - > 00:40:50,159 marketing in the store, it's really fun for us to help direct 866 00:40:50,159 - > 00:40:54,079 that experience so that they get tools faster, they find 867 00:40:54,079 - > 00:40:57,840 things cheaper, they find things that are very um for this 868 00:40:57,840 - > 00:41:02,400 particular niche versus um using something that's more generic 869 00:41:02,400 - > 00:41:05,519 and gives them best practices that maybe wouldn't work here. 870 00:41:05,519 - > 00:41:08,320 Um, so we enjoy all of the above. 871 00:41:08,800 - > 00:41:09,440 Asa Waldstein: I love that. 872 00:41:09,440 - > 00:41:12,880 And one thing that that jumped out at me while you were saying 873 00:41:12,880 - > 00:41:14,719 that, thank you for sharing that expertise. 874 00:41:14,719 - > 00:41:17,440 That's really, really helpful to me and I think to a lot of 875 00:41:17,440 - > 00:41:21,519 the listeners, is sometimes people will say, Well, everyone, 876 00:41:21,519 - > 00:41:25,280 all the other brands are making cle disease claims or pushing 877 00:41:25,280 - > 00:41:25,840 claims. 878 00:41:25,840 - > 00:41:29,679 And they kind of it kind of creates this false mentality or 879 00:41:29,679 - > 00:41:33,599 narrative that, well, in order to keep up and I need to make 880 00:41:33,599 - > 00:41:35,519 disease claims, I need to kind of keep pushing it. 881 00:41:35,519 - > 00:41:38,239 They're doing it, they seem to be doing good, I need to do it 882 00:41:38,239 - > 00:41:38,480 too. 883 00:41:38,480 - > 00:41:42,079 So what I heard from you is there's so many things you could 884 00:41:42,079 - > 00:41:46,960 do that don't even involve the compliance, you know, aspect of 885 00:41:46,960 - > 00:41:47,039 it. 886 00:41:47,039 - > 00:41:51,039 That's an important piece, but you know, enter, you know, 887 00:41:51,039 - > 00:41:53,440 stating your your mission, communicating with it. 888 00:41:53,440 - > 00:41:55,360 I mean, that's just so fascinating to me. 889 00:41:55,360 - > 00:41:59,519 Side story, I live near Boulder, Colorado, went hiking 890 00:41:59,519 - > 00:42:03,119 yesterday, came back, got some dumplings in Boulder, and I love 891 00:42:03,119 - > 00:42:07,280 these dumplings, but the surface and the experience there 892 00:42:07,280 - > 00:42:12,960 is so bad, like just so bad, and they just don't care at all. 893 00:42:12,960 - > 00:42:16,559 That for me, even though I'm a regulatory person, I'm really 894 00:42:16,559 - > 00:42:18,159 I'm truly a marketer at heart. 895 00:42:18,159 - > 00:42:20,800 I came back and I brought the dumplings to my daughter. 896 00:42:20,800 - > 00:42:23,119 I'm like, man, this is just really annoying. 897 00:42:23,119 - > 00:42:27,519 They're they're almost there, but they they could go good to 898 00:42:27,519 - > 00:42:31,920 grade with just like some human kindness, really. 899 00:42:32,960 - > 00:42:34,880 Tina Maddock: The right people in the right place. 900 00:42:34,880 - > 00:42:38,000 And just speaking of human kindness, I think we're all 901 00:42:38,000 - > 00:42:42,079 craving that right now, even though all the buzz is about AI, 902 00:42:42,079 - > 00:42:45,920 AI, um, or you know, like automation tools. 903 00:42:45,920 - > 00:42:50,079 I think people are craving like authentic experiences and 904 00:42:50,079 - > 00:42:51,599 connection with other people. 905 00:42:51,599 - > 00:42:56,000 And one of the reasons I know this to be true is when we have 906 00:42:56,000 - > 00:43:00,559 um just I am a huge data person, so I'm a little I nerd out a 907 00:43:00,559 - > 00:43:04,239 little bit on these things, but we do test in all the time 908 00:43:04,239 - > 00:43:07,360 because when people spend money on marketing, it's usually a 909 00:43:07,360 - > 00:43:08,320 large investment. 910 00:43:08,320 - > 00:43:11,840 No matter how much it is, it's usually a large investment for 911 00:43:11,840 - > 00:43:12,159 them. 912 00:43:12,159 - > 00:43:17,760 And um, they're hoping to get a return on that investment. 913 00:43:17,760 - > 00:43:20,559 And so we're trying to find okay, what's the easiest, 914 00:43:20,559 - > 00:43:21,519 fastest way? 915 00:43:21,519 - > 00:43:26,400 So we recently did a test with ads where it's like, hey, fill 916 00:43:26,400 - > 00:43:31,760 out this form and we'll help you, or B, call this phone 917 00:43:31,760 - > 00:43:32,960 number and we'll help you. 918 00:43:32,960 - > 00:43:35,920 And the phone number outperformed the form. 919 00:43:35,920 - > 00:43:36,480 Whoa. 920 00:43:38,960 - > 00:43:39,599 Asa Waldstein: Wow. 921 00:43:40,079 - > 00:43:42,960 Tina Maddock: Yeah, which turned into because of the 922 00:43:42,960 - > 00:43:47,039 consultative conversations, it turned into really big 923 00:43:47,039 - > 00:43:48,639 conversions on purchases. 924 00:43:48,639 - > 00:43:52,880 So it turned into money, and the money difference was big 925 00:43:52,880 - > 00:43:54,239 between a form and that. 926 00:43:54,239 - > 00:43:59,519 And so that just felt like, oh my gosh, we have perhaps. 927 00:43:59,519 - > 00:44:05,360 Overautomated our experience, and people are craving the 928 00:44:05,360 - > 00:44:09,440 ability to talk to a real human, engage with a real person, and 929 00:44:09,440 - > 00:44:12,960 have some kind of connection with another human being. 930 00:44:12,960 - > 00:44:16,880 So I think that is a differentiation for this whole 931 00:44:16,880 - > 00:44:20,159 industry all by itself because you can buy a lot of these 932 00:44:20,159 - > 00:44:23,440 products on Amazon, but nobody's going to talk to you about it. 933 00:44:23,440 - > 00:44:25,760 No one's going to say, hey, and how are you doing? 934 00:44:25,760 - > 00:44:28,480 And did that work for you as a follow-up? 935 00:44:28,480 - > 00:44:32,559 Um, this industry is really great at that, creating those 936 00:44:32,559 - > 00:44:34,719 connections and experiences for people. 937 00:44:34,719 - > 00:44:36,559 Huge differentiator. 938 00:44:36,960 - > 00:44:37,519 Asa Waldstein: I love that. 939 00:44:37,519 - > 00:44:38,960 Thank you for sharing that. 940 00:44:38,960 - > 00:44:40,320 It's a really great reminder. 941 00:44:40,320 - > 00:44:43,440 One thing I love doing is personalized videos. 942 00:44:43,440 - > 00:44:47,440 So it might be through a Loom video or I've got a fun 943 00:44:47,440 - > 00:44:51,599 background or whatever in mind where I might say, hey, Tina, 944 00:44:51,599 - > 00:44:53,679 thank you so much for having me on this podcast. 945 00:44:53,679 - > 00:44:54,559 I learned a lot. 946 00:44:54,559 - > 00:44:58,079 It's like a 20-second embedded video in an email. 947 00:44:58,079 - > 00:44:59,679 And that goes a really long way. 948 00:44:59,679 - > 00:45:04,400 So especially as part of the biz devs cycle, if I'm going, if 949 00:45:04,400 - > 00:45:08,960 I'm a company and I get lots of emails and I see one with a 950 00:45:08,960 - > 00:45:13,920 someone's smiling face saying, Hey Bob, thank you so much for 951 00:45:13,920 - > 00:45:16,880 your time today, or I've got some opportunity, that's going 952 00:45:16,880 - > 00:45:20,079 to help, you know, kick you to the top, not only for business, 953 00:45:20,079 - > 00:45:23,199 but you know, job interviews and and all the other things that 954 00:45:23,199 - > 00:45:23,679 go along. 955 00:45:23,679 - > 00:45:26,800 But it's really just kind of you know honest, true 956 00:45:26,800 - > 00:45:27,440 communication. 957 00:45:27,440 - > 00:45:28,400 I think you're right. 958 00:45:28,400 - > 00:45:30,400 We're we are kind of craving that. 959 00:45:30,800 - > 00:45:32,719 Tina Maddock: Yeah, and just a quick tip for that. 960 00:45:32,719 - > 00:45:38,239 If you use the words sound on in your subject line, people are 961 00:45:38,239 - > 00:45:41,360 more likely to open it because they realize there's a video or 962 00:45:41,360 - > 00:45:43,440 you're talking to them in the email. 963 00:45:43,440 - > 00:45:46,000 And that's just a little tip from Instagram. 964 00:45:46,000 - > 00:45:48,719 You know, when when there are those reels that are coming 965 00:45:48,719 - > 00:45:53,199 through, or you put music behind a photo montage, people don't 966 00:45:53,199 - > 00:45:56,480 realize that there's um something to listen to unless 967 00:45:56,480 - > 00:45:59,519 you have something like sound on, and it's just a prompt for 968 00:45:59,519 - > 00:46:02,400 people to be like, oh, there's an interaction here that I might 969 00:46:02,400 - > 00:46:03,519 want to participate in. 970 00:46:03,760 - > 00:46:04,719 Asa Waldstein: I I love it. 971 00:46:04,719 - > 00:46:08,320 My daughter, as I mentioned, is a beaver ecologist, master's 972 00:46:08,320 - > 00:46:09,519 student in Boulder. 973 00:46:09,519 - > 00:46:12,559 She has her Instagram page, Save the Beavers, where she does 974 00:46:12,559 - > 00:46:13,039 a lot of these. 975 00:46:13,039 - > 00:46:15,199 Hey, check out this beaver habitat and restoration. 976 00:46:15,199 - > 00:46:18,800 So I'm gonna give her the sound on advice and we'll see how her 977 00:46:18,800 - > 00:46:19,519 page does. 978 00:46:19,760 - > 00:46:20,880 Tina Maddock: Yeah, let me know. 979 00:46:20,880 - > 00:46:24,960 I've always loved data, so let me know how it works. 980 00:46:25,440 - > 00:46:26,400 Asa Waldstein: Sounds good. 981 00:46:26,719 - > 00:46:30,159 Tina Maddock: Okay, so any um, I know we're gonna have links to 982 00:46:30,159 - > 00:46:34,159 all of your um Wednesday newsletter and the your 983 00:46:34,159 - > 00:46:35,360 compliance tools. 984 00:46:35,360 - > 00:46:38,079 Um, anything else you want to mention where people can get in 985 00:46:38,079 - > 00:46:38,800 touch with you? 986 00:46:40,320 - > 00:46:43,440 Asa Waldstein: I think that the warning letter Wednesday is a 987 00:46:43,440 - > 00:46:46,800 great way to stay apprised of the enforcement trends. 988 00:46:46,800 - > 00:46:48,480 You can always contact me through there. 989 00:46:48,480 - > 00:46:50,480 You'll have a link for Apex Compliance. 990 00:46:50,480 - > 00:46:54,719 I I think that's good, other than I am a fanatic on LinkedIn. 991 00:46:54,719 - > 00:46:56,159 I'm on LinkedIn all the time. 992 00:46:56,159 - > 00:47:00,800 I like to share interesting business things, videos. 993 00:47:00,800 - > 00:47:03,119 You know, I like traveling a lot. 994 00:47:03,119 - > 00:47:08,800 So when I was in Laos a few months ago, I recorded a video 995 00:47:08,800 - > 00:47:11,679 as I was floating on the Mekong Delta about label compliance. 996 00:47:11,679 - > 00:47:14,239 So I post a lot of stuff like that on LinkedIn. 997 00:47:14,239 - > 00:47:17,280 And that's just my name, Asa Waldstein, on LinkedIn too. 998 00:47:17,599 - > 00:47:19,599 Tina Maddock: Yeah, definitely hop in there and follow. 999 00:47:19,599 - > 00:47:23,840 And I know Asa does respond if people have questions to his 1000 00:47:23,840 - > 00:47:24,639 videos on there. 1001 00:47:24,639 - > 00:47:27,440 So very interactive for you. 1002 00:47:27,440 - > 00:47:29,360 Uh so definitely do that. 1003 00:47:29,360 - > 00:47:31,599 Use all the links in the show notes today. 1004 00:47:31,599 - > 00:47:36,079 And we're just so thankful that both Asa, you've uh agreed to 1005 00:47:36,079 - > 00:47:39,599 join us and share your wisdom with us today, and also that you 1006 00:47:39,599 - > 00:47:43,039 um listeners have decided to spend a little time with us. 1007 00:47:43,039 - > 00:47:46,159 Appreciate you for everything, and we will see you the next 1008 00:47:46,159 - > 00:47:46,400 time. 1009 00:47:46,400 - > 00:47:47,119 Bye-bye. 1010 00:47:47,760 - > 00:47:48,079 Asa Waldstein: Bye. 1011 00:47:48,559 - > 00:47:50,719 Tina Maddock: Thank you so much for joining us for the latest 1012 00:47:50,719 - > 00:47:54,960 episode of the Natural Products Marketer podcast, where we're 1013 00:47:54,960 - > 00:47:58,400 here to help you grow your business so you can serve more 1014 00:47:58,400 - > 00:48:00,400 people and change more lives. 1015 00:48:00,400 - > 00:48:03,679 If you have any questions that have come up during this episode 1016 00:48:03,679 - > 00:48:06,559 or others, or there's just a retail challenge that you're 1017 00:48:06,559 - > 00:48:09,920 facing today, I would love for you to reach out to us at info 1018 00:48:09,920 - > 00:48:12,559 at naturalproductsmarketer.com. 1019 00:48:12,559 - > 00:48:14,719 We're here to answer questions. 1020 00:48:14,719 - > 00:48:18,559 But most of all, if you have a question, then another retailer 1021 00:48:18,559 - > 00:48:20,079 probably also has that question. 1022 00:48:20,079 - > 00:48:24,159 So we can bring experts onto the podcast to give you the 1023 00:48:24,159 - > 00:48:25,760 information that you really need. 1024 00:48:25,760 - > 00:48:29,679 And if you liked what you heard, give us a thumbs up or 1025 00:48:29,679 - > 00:48:35,280 give us a review on uh YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or 1026 00:48:35,280 - > 00:48:36,480 wherever you're listening today. 1027 00:48:36,480 - > 00:48:38,559 All right, it was great to see you.