NachoTuesday: Mastering the Dynamics of Business Relationships for Growth

Speaker A: Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to another Nacho Tuesday. And today I have Louis here with Gwaman Consulting. Uh, Sophie. Don't mind Louis. Uh, we'd love if you could introduce your company. What do you guys do over there?

Speaker B: Sure. So I am a mindset and performance coach. And what I do is that I help leaders become higher performing versions of themselves. I focus on peak performance, so I work with clients either one on one or through corporate trainings. And I also have a men's group and that's amazing. So that's a little bit about me.

Speaker A: So you do a lot of work to, uh, help people with their business relationships and how to identify good relationships, how to build on relationships. Uh, maybe could you go dive into, uh, maybe some tips on how to approach the different business dynamics. Maybe employee to employee relationships, Maybe employee to boss and vice versa.

Speaker B: Sure. So we're all losing money either if you're an army of one or if you're running a team. You're either losing productivity, you're losing relationship, you're losing face, you're losing a lot of things if you don't have these things in line. So if you're trying to some tips on how to build that kind of relationship. The first thing is being able to create, have curiosity for the other person and also create the relationship by sharing your pain as a manager is something I'd like to say. So something I like to say is if you're someone who's in charge, if you show that kings and queens can bleed, right? So if you show that you're a person in charge, but you're also struggling with something, or you're also not, uh, proficient at something as you'd like to be, well, you're showing the human side of yourself. And if you're showing just vulnerability, so maybe that's a key word here, just showing a little bit at a time, then you, your people will open up. And if they open up, then they'll be a little bit more honest with you as to what they need. So if you're able to start paying attention to what they need and what they want, then you can actually fulfill that. Then everybody's making more, making more, being able to, also being more engaged at the company.

Speaker A: That makes a lot of sense, actually. So you're saying that if people are afraid to really, you know, share who they really are. You know, maybe as an employee with their manager, they might hide stuff if something goes wrong. Whereas, uh, the most efficient, uh, way business gets done actually is if you don't have those barriers in place where you could just, you know, people make moves, you move quickly, and if you make mistakes, you own up to it, you learn from it, and you move forward. But, um, if you don't have that communication, you know, both, you know, horizontally across with your fellow employees and then also vertically between, you know, different levels of management, either to your boss or vice versa, then, um, that really has a big impact on the performance for the company overall.

Speaker B: Absolutely. We've all been there, so. Yes. Yep.

Speaker A: Uh, so I guess, uh, what are your thoughts on, like, the. The carrot versus the stick approach? So, you know, do, um, our managers supposed to be, you know, are they supposed to lead with a stick or the carrot? Or do you. Do you feel like there's a good mix between, uh, both strategies?

Speaker B: There's a good mix. I don't think enough managers have enough to understand, have enough structure within themselves as customized structure as to how much stick and how much carrot there should be. So you're gonna have different styles of management, right? So just like you have different styles of growing up, you know, different styles of parenting. Um, there's a lot of them that work. Maybe not. You can't really say many of them are wrong per se. Um, there's pluses and minuses. But how much carrot is too much carrot?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Then people get lethargic. People get, okay, we're not going to have any detriment if we don't hit goals, if we don't hit our numbers, or if nothing happens.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: If you have too much stick, then we have to hit goals no matter what. People are overly burned out. People don't trust the boss enough or managers enough to say, hey, I actually have a problem. So you're not going to win if it's one or the other.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: You have to create a combination. And so much like even for the last, um, question of. You need a little bit of both, right? You. You need to be able to be in charge, but be able to have enough relationship and trust with your team to be able to go through the tough times, but then be able to reflect and be able to prepare for the next hard times when times are softer, more at ease.

Speaker A: Y. Yeah. People like to work hard for the people that they like to work with.

Speaker B: Right? Right. And you know, you know what's even better? So for. If an individual were to come work and they actually know why they're there and they feel safe, that's there. Right. Psychological safety, um, within the office, and everything's just easier, just a lot less Stress all around. But there needs to be both carrot and stick.

Speaker A: Do you think it's good maybe to hire maybe like a good cop, bad cop kind of an approach? Or are you looking for managers, do you think managers, uh, to try to try to blend, wear both hats, if you will, the, the carrot and the stick hat, the proverbial good cop and bad cop in one or two. Uh, do you like to hire different types of personalities? I guess at the management level.

Speaker B: So I think would be best if you did have different managers, have their kind of roles. Right. So there are people really inclined already. I'm going to be more stick. I'm going to tell people what it is, this and that. Okay.

Speaker A: This is how I am.

Speaker B: You know, you're going to have people like that. You're going to have other people more emotionally intelligent inclined. You could both. Every, every manager should be emotionally intelligent inclined. But um, um, you're going to have some people more, uh, so that we're in this together. We're in the same boat. We are in the boats, we're going to burn the boats together. You know, we got this. And so if you have that good cop, bad guy cop dynamic that's there, but an underlying through line that no matter who it is, either if it's the tough parent or the softer parent, that we're still going to the same place, I think that's gorgeous. For teams that don't have multiple managers that are there, that has to be one person. You have to take the responsibility in and of yourself. Like your people are going to burn themselves out because they want to do well by you, they want to do well by the company. You're going to have people that kind of walk over you. You can't allow that. Right. In terms of structure, in terms of numbers not being hit, performance not being hit. So yeah, there's. You need to be both if you're one person, if you have multiple around you, then you can actually have take on roles and play to each other's strengths.

Speaker A: That's interesting. Uh, what are your thoughts on like maybe more like employee to employee relationships? Any tips there to get along better with your fellow employees out there?

Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. So being able to have more value based questions, just, just have more. And I could try to give you more because you know, I had a, I had a client I was speaking with, I think yesterday, um, recently about this. But you, you could be in any scenario. What are the normal scenarios we're usually in? Sure, we have happy hours, which is great. Sure. We have Company functions that are great. You know, sure, we have maybe going to the park sometimes that could be a function, you know, half function, whatever. But you know, there was time where I was networking what three times a week for a few years. Literally going to multiple networking events in different industries.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because trying to create different opportunities for myself and trying to see where can I provide value. And I used to run a sales company before as well. So I would teach how to build um, not just emotionally, not just emotional intelligence, but actual relationships that are real, as we like to say in New York. And so how you're able to do that. Right. Instead of worrying so much, uh, let's say for the employee, employee relationship, like do we like the same things? You know, it's going to ask value based questions as to find out if you're a similar kind of person. So maybe a few examples as to um, what, what, what do you like to do for fun? Right. And this could be xyz. I like to play Dungeons and Dragons and I like to actually play soccer. Right. Two different way, different things. But that's, that's more so surface level. But if you ask a little bit deeper on value based question, that could be something along the lines of okay, you like to play Dungeons and Dragons. I actually don't know what that's about. But, but I mean what is the difficulty or do you find a, what do you find most enjoyable about the problem solving process in doing that?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And it's soccer. Right. So if you take the reverse, like I'm um, only Dungeons and Dragons guy, I actually don't know about soccer. So like okay, for soccer. So do you play it? Yeah, I play it. Well, what's been the biggest moment for you that maybe you were struggling with or something that you had to use a lot of discipline for? I mean were you kid doing it or do you do that now? Do you do like a group league on, on the weekends? And you know what, what do you have something like that, like a story about that. Because I've never done soccer. And so with that you get to touch upon different things. People's discipline, patience, their struggles. Then that leads to what we were just mentioning before, vulnerability. If people could sense or see vulnerability a little bit there, like, oh, wow, this person's an actual human. So even though I don't do anything that they do, I can still relate to them. That means we can work better together. So I could go on. But there's an example.

Speaker A: That's a great point actually. So it's not Just transactional, just hey, hey. Reply to this email. I sent you notes. Um, it's very important to just establish that whatever connection that may be, or at least an understanding that you appreciate, uh, the other interests and dissimilarities even that other people might have. Um, I guess with that said, with remote work these days, how do you feel like that's impacted, uh, maybe some of the relationship building aspect, uh, that employees and uh, you know, managers and other team members might have with each other that uh, if they are fully remote, uh, they might not get as much of anymore, uh, due to the uh, shift in remote to remote work culture.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's heavily, heavily related to the previous question. Because you need to have that kind of relationship built by having more away time, then there's less tools on how to build relationships together. What managers need to be leaning more into are these value based kind of questions. But creating value based scenarios with the team to actually build. You can do that on zoom. Um, right. I just did it right now. But you can create little workshops around that. But that also makes it more, even more important. So when you're in person to have the quality that's there, that's not just, hey, we have to do this because we have to do this. Who wants to do anything? Because you have to do it right. Just because, uh, just because it's a checkbox. Right. That's, that doesn't work. So by being able to create something and you have to get a little bit creative, but using this kind of value based vulnerability kind of uh, tactic, if you will, it's not a, um, it's a strategy, better word strategy around it. You're able to have fun but be productive and also be the best word still real just with everyone there. And that just culminates a lot more respect, a lot more of everything that's there. I've actually even saw maybe a recent article that uh, steak dinners are starting to come back even more so kind of for an obvious reason like build a relationship in person, be there. Right. Um, and the last part of that though is that of course if you're running a team, managing a team, the people don't have the skills to know how to just do that on their own. Right. So you need to facilitate that. And if you don't know how to facilitate that, you should work with somebody who knows how to facilitate that. And that's, that's what's needed.

Speaker A: Yeah. That you bring up another important point. Or maybe I'm kind of thinking on this Line. But ah, mission, like a company's mission and aligning everybody with that, uh, do you see a connection between, as a leader in the company, uh, making sure that you find a way for that mission or that mission or that purpose for the company, uh, to really apply to people's inherent values and understanding, you know, how to identify what people's motivations are and find a way to connect that company mission with, you know, what their interests are and what, you know, what they feel like they're uh, doing actually on a day to day basis to feel like they're creating purpose, they have purpose and they're creating value. Uh, what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker B: You hit on a lot of great points. Because what it needs to be is it needs to be a combination of that of purpose, of understanding, of mission. And that's really a combination of. That is really the culture. It's the culture is what you're speaking of. And so to create that kind of culture we um, need to be able to think a little bit more creatively but also be a little bit, I don't want to use the word inclusive but being a little bit more making sure we're getting correct feedback from our people as to what is the actual culture. Because there's a culture that what we say it is and there's the culture that's actually happening. Right? So once we're, if we're in that middle ground, uh, of being able to trial and error and look, we actually failed at doing our, what we say we wanted to hear a culture, if we're actually a part of our culture, is being able to be communicative with uh, with each other and then we show that we're not communicative. Well, it's up to management's job to be able to show, well, maybe this is where we messed up, this is how we move forward from it, right? This, this is what we do instead of. And so being able to take other things besides just productivity focused, right? How do you, for example, how do you like to, how do you honestly detach? How do you honestly relax at work? How do you, a part of this company are able to work proficiently while you're working at home? How do you not overwhelm yourself? So then you're able to be so sharp when you're here or when you're working at home but have enough space for yourself so then when you're home after working that you will take yourself seriously, that you're just being with your family or you're just alone with your cat. But having a great time. That's all part of culture. I don't know if that's really being spoken enough. Um, but that needs to be a part of it.

Speaker A: And uh, what other tips do you have for people? Uh, to be able to bring out that uh, positive aspect of culture and be able to uh, make people feel like they're included and uh, create like an overall inclusive environment for all of your team members.

Speaker B: I think what most, like just what, I don't know, is it part of being an adult that we just all go through these kind of jobs that we're not great or these, these, these, these uh, positions that we've had or we've had tyrants or just people who didn't know what, what was going on. We thought we could do better. And well, maybe that's right of passage. Right. But I bring that up because one of the biggest frustrations is being able to be told that this is the way things are. But you don't feel like you can do anything about it. That it's not actually like that and you don't feel like you could change anything.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Well then what happens when that thought process starts to come along? You start to look for another job and first you start to not take your current job as seriously. Your heart starts to get out of it. Right. So then how to be able to remedy that is being able to have that feedback like I was speaking of. But what I'm trying to, I'm trying to come from a different angle here of just let's say, um, being able to have better conversations.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So nobody wants to lose face. Nobody wants to look like they actually made a mistake. And really first, first it's management's job to be okay with failing, at least to a certain degree. Right. Because that's what creates innovation. So if you're able to take that mindset within management and then disseminate it within the culture.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Within the rest of the employees, then the employees will follow suit. That, yeah, that's, that's how you create that. Having better conversations. Um, and I want to get more practical. Uh, even more practical. So for better conversations, being able to

Speaker A: um,

Speaker B: build more trust, I think that's where I'm, where I'm m going. That's what, that's what feels right. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yep. Yeah, no, I totally agree with you there. I think, um, trust is that, that, that key aspect of it. I think, um, if people feel like they can't trust, you know, they can't trust their failures. Or their ability to make decisions and uh, have a purpose in the work that they do. Uh, they're going to close up, they're going to maybe stop working as hard, they're going to start looking for other jobs, they're going to feel disconnected from the overall company mission. Uh, so I do agree that it's very important that managers, uh, especially have like some sense of vulnerability, uh, where they encourage their team members to try to excel and do what they can. Um, you know, they let them know when, when failure, it happens, you know, and what they could do to remedy it. But it's more from a coaching standpoint as opposed to just, you know, getting, ah, getting whipped, if you will. So, you know, you can encourage people to let them know that hey, failure is okay, it happens. Just, you know, don't try to make this like a repeat process or anything like that. But.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Uh, from a management standpoint too, it's okay, like you mentioned, to show your vulnerabilities, but obviously not too much to where you look inept, but maybe you are, maybe you don't deserve to be there. But in most cases, like even managers make mistakes. Uh, everybody's human. Um, and if you can own up to that and show that, and show that you actually, as a leading example, uh, you know, learn from that mistake and actually apply that practice yourself, other people are much more likely to follow you as well.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: So with that, with that said, mental health is a big topic right now too. And a lot of people always want to talk about this, but I don't think a lot of people actually put it into practice much. And how they address, uh, mental health as a, as an important aspect of your overall well being? Uh, what kind of tips do you offer for people to have better mental health for themselves and maybe for, uh, leaders in the company to encourage better mental health from their employees and team members?

Speaker B: Sure. So, yeah, just some examples of clients I'm working with now or clients I've worked with in the past that, you know, some good points of. What comes up is let's say saying no, your ability to say no. All right, I can talk for hours on just that one topic alone. But how you're able to say no to a job, how do you're able to say no to, I mean a task, right. How you're able to say no to, let's say, uh, something you want, how to say no to something you don't want, how to say no to a person, how to say no to yourself, what you're saying and then that's one, one, one subject, being able to say no. And your mentality, your resilience when hard times come to you, right? So if you are in business or if you are dealing with other humans, it is going to be difficult. You are going to get irritated, and maybe you're even going to get angry, right? And maybe you're even going to feel anxious, right? That happens. And these things happen on a regular basis. Mental health happens on a regular basis. So you hear me almost getting even more passionate about it. So the fact is, is that if you were able to not just try to feel, but verbalize, understand how is, how does Lewis act when, you know, stuff hits the fan? How does Lewis act when things are calm, right? And so that's, that's important to see that resilience. Are you that kind of warrior in the garden, you know, male or female, that you should be both? Either you are you. You need to be there for your team, you need to be there for your family, but most importantly, you need to be there for yourself first. And I know this because I've made the same mistake where I just didn't think about myself first. I wasn't taking care of myself enough. And that, that's a common thing, right? So that's, that's what a lot of people are screwing up on. And that shouldn't really be, um, addressed with ridicule or anything of that nature. But that's a serious thing to take note of because you're losing practical things every day. You're losing time, you're losing money, you're losing opportunity cost, right? You're losing current money, you're losing opportunity cost, you're losing relationships, either if you want that for professionally or personally. And so those are, those are really some of the biggest things that comes first, right, in terms of mental health. A uh, third thing is I could talk. If you want to talk mental health, I could talk all day about it. A third last point that I'll give you is, let's say for the environment around you, of course there's your physical environment, right? Your room and actually how you actually, um, um, set yourself up throughout the day. But of course, the people who you're around, who you surround yourself with, like what. What are you usually hearing on a regular basis? What you're usually hearing on a regular basis, whether it's humans, like roommates or family or whatnot, or whether it's the content that you take in or whether it's you talking to yourself, right? Doing a lot of Self work or mirror work or things of that nature. That's the tape that keeps replaying. Right. So if we want to be Michael Jordan esque, you know, in terms of our field or just with being okay with ourselves, we need to be able to look at the tape or have somebody else look at the tape with us and be able to then determine, well, how do we want to act instead? Or are we acting in alignment with who we are and with our purpose on a regular basis. So at line, that's really what I help people do, but that's what should be focused on.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good point too. And not getting too personally invested into it to where you take it personally, where, you know, for instance, failure, you know, if, or saying no to something. Like if you have a task and you know it should be done a better way, feel free to speak up if it's, it's okay if your manager or somebody doesn't agree with you. Um, have that debate and you know, share the facts back and forth and make a decision together and then, you know, you both own that decision and move from there. Sometimes, you know, I think to your point, people take their success, or maybe, um, how they want to be perceived by other people too personally and you should really, you know, not take it personally. Just, you know, having those relationships is a good thing. But, uh, you have to in your, uh, you know, according to what you said, say no sometimes and don't take it personally. Um, so I guess with that said too, the third thing you mentioned was putting yourself around the right people. So how do you identify maybe good or bad fits in relationships before you even get started? Um, that could be a deep topic too. I know.

Speaker B: Yeah, it could. I was just, I think it was, I was having this, um, yeah. Discussion with this recently too. So, you know, you're. We're around people all the time. It's important to understand the different paradigms of, you know, we're, we're building. Why are we building relationships in the first place? Of course it's maybe good for my job. Of course it's good to have more clients for my company. Of course it's good for, I mean, first. And maybe going back to one of your previous questions that really there's a through line that's there that you need to be able to know the values that you stand for first.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Because if you understand your values as a person, uh, your values and principles, then you're able to express that those more intentionally through your work. If you're a Solo entrepreneur. You're able to do that through your work. You're able to say, I am an artist. I'm also actually a business person, but I really focus on precision. Oh, that's one of my values. Well, then you can express that through your work.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: If you're actually, uh, in. In within a large team, you got a couple people, you got hundreds of people, that same notion will actually be expressed throughout as well. If you understand the values of yourself as a manager, as someone who's in charge, then part of the conversations you could have the values of the people who you're working with. Right. Either your colleagues or your employees. Okay, great. And then you take that into consideration to create the overlap. Then you start verbalizing it. So once you know what you are, where you're coming from, then it's easier to express that and then build the relationship with someone else. So you're able to ask better questions. Right. Because these are all steps. This is all literally just steps to a method. Then you can ask better questions to other people. And then even though they might look great on paper, they might look great online or whatnot, if you're speaking more deeply with them, then maybe you can really see that they don't have to share the same ethics, morals, values as you. And then you make. Then it comes to one of your most important skill sets. Decision time. Yeah, you make decisions. Okay, you know what? Maybe we can work together just in a transactional way. Or I can refer them to somewhere. Or. You know what? I would love to have my hand in this person's career because I have the same vision as they were, similar vision. And I'm really in alignment with their mission, their vision. I want. I want to see them successful, even final. Getting monetary gain, or I don't need to have a lot of, you know, gain from them, or, you know, then you start. That's a decision. That's a decision. But a lot of people, what they're not doing is they're not letting their relationships become. They're not letting their relationships be decisions. They're letting things just happen and being pushed around, so to speak. Yep.

Speaker A: This is the company I work at. I guess I'm gonna stay here forever. Or this is a relationship that I'm in. Guess I'm gonna stay here forever. Um, but I think you touched on, like, the. The core point is values, uh, and having that. That, um, alignment of values. And if you have that alignment of values, I think a lot of disagreements always happen around how you get places. But I Think if you could find people that share the same values, it doesn't really matter. It's, you know, you have the same goals and values, you can get to the same place, you might disagree on how to get there. And that's what healthy, you know, debate is for. Right. And that's how your team works more effectively together. You might come with different perspectives on how to solve that problem. But if your values and goals, uh, for together what you want to achieve as a team are aligned, you'll get to that point to where you're trying to go and everybody will feel like they have their, they're making their contribution and they have purpose in the work that they're doing.

Speaker B: Right? Absolutely. And what's more attractive, if you're looking for a role, right. If you're looking for a position, employers want to see job. They want to see the grit, resilience that you have. Right. So those are values that you have. So what if you're even new to the job market or if you've been, you know, just super experienced executive, if you're able to express those values? Well, you know, of course you need to have some competence within what your, the field that you're looking to get in. But, but uh, that means you can learn the rest that, okay, you're a student, being a student is one of your values. Oh, you like to build actual quality relationships. Well, those two go hand in hand. Okay. I think we can work together. That's, I mean, that's what's attractive. So.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good point too. Right. Uh, anybody will take a job, but you know, you hire people that, the people that really produce the most and do the most for you are the ones that are, you know, like actually have a value alignment with uh, what the company's mission is. Um, with that said, how does goal setting fit into the picture for having better relationships with yourself and the other people, uh, around you, perhaps?

Speaker B: So having goals is important to have a longer term goal, like say a vision, you know, if you have some goals that are far enough into the future, it's part of your vision. Right. But it's no, no one's going to be excited for your vision as a human. You're not going to get. I have not. I've made this mistake before. If I had a vision, I'm not going to get up every day and do the meticulous tasks I need to do, you know, so then I can get my vision that I'm going to achieve in 30 years. That's not, that's not really realistic. Yeah. So it's important to have goals for yourself that's definitely more short term. You could have short term and midterm goals. You could have things that you'll accomplish, let's say in a week and within maybe a month, month and a half. Right. So that can be short term, midterm. And so, uh, you make sure you have the gambit of what you need. You need to have productivity goals. Sure. You know, you want to have goals that you believe you need to do. Upkeep.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: Maybe gym goals. But you need to make sure whether it is work or whether it's um, something physical, you, that you have some energizing goals. You have things that you're energized by. Right. I used to struggle for what, since I was a kid, since I was, um, I don't know, maybe 25 or something with, with waking up on time. Right. Waking up early. And I'm not talking about just, all right, gotta wake up at 7, you know, be out of here by 7:45 or 8. Go, go to my job on time. I'm not talking about being late and I'm um, I'm talking about waking up on time from when you need, let's say 6:30 or 7 and being energized to wake up and looking forward to. Okay, well, where this is good, it's, it's a different energy of I get to do this and I want to do this right. So I, I researched for a lot for like eight years. For about eight years I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna be great in any management position if I don't, if I don't know how to do this. And so I, I looked it up and I, I tested a lot on myself. Um, but being able, that was, that became to have a goal of mine, a short term goal of mine was instead of just having to wake up, to wake up, to have to get ready so I can have to go to work. Meanwhile, if you understand a little bit philosophically, you don't have to do anything. Right. Yeah, don't get too philosophical right now. But uh, but if you, what I started to do was create a choice, create an energizing, uh, decision as to, well, before work I'm going to do this. So I would carve out 30 minutes, an hour, 15 minutes, whatever I choose, uh, and keep it consistently as to, this is my time for me to just do me. I can work out if that's something I was really looking forward to. But I planned it also ahead of time. I actually. You could spend your time going on YouTube just messing around. If you're a gamer, you could be a gamer. If you could read, you read. So that's what I did today. Right. So, um, but you choose why you're waking up. You choose why you're looking forward to the day. So much like how most of life and most of business actually is decision making. If you are able to practice that muscle of you are choosing what is happening. Especially like we were saying before, in the face of opposition, that just gives you massive power. And that reminds you of how much power you have when opposition comes.

Speaker A: Yep. Yeah, I've seen this before too. Um, I mean there's a quote that says, you know, the journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step. Right? It's. But if you're looking at the thousand mile journey, you look at it and say, wow, that's too far for me. I'm not even going to take that first step. And that's where a lot of people fail because they don't have those short term goals. And I related a lot to hiking or mountaineering, right. So you look at the top of this mountain, you're like, that thing's huge. No way I'm going to do this. Right. But if you just start walking uphill and you say, let's get over this, this next hill here and you get there and you're like, wow, that was really cool. Look at this view. I wonder what the view is. You know, just a little bit further ahead up there and you find yourself like kind of already committed. So you just keep going and you keep going and you keep going. Before you know it, one step at a time and you're at the top of the mountain and you're overlooking everything you've really accomplished that vision that you had. Um, but if you just looked at the top of the mountain and thought through all the effort you had to go through without taking that first step, it doesn't really seem real. And a lot of people never actually follow through with those. They.

Speaker B: Yep, they fall through the cracks. They um, they uh, they lack on their, on the process. That's, that's usually it. They, it's either self doubt, it's either self imposter syndrome. Um, they usually defeat themselves. That's, that's a usual, a martial artist saying, you know, you're usually just defeating yourself. Um, in the long game.

Speaker A: Yeah. You're your own best enemy or your worst worst enemy or your best friend. Yes, yes, that Perspective is everything there, I guess. How do you react one thing when things do go wrong? Because invariably they do. And if nothing's going wrong in your life, then you're not trying hard enough, frankly. So, uh, when that, when that does happen, how do you, what do you recommend for people on how they approach, uh, that failure and what to do from there?

Speaker B: Sure. So we could start broad and then what everybody should do is get very specific and granular for themselves as an individual. So what you want to do when things go wrong is you want to first be able to look at what went wrong. So what a lot of people do is that. And that is that they react right away.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So there's either, you could say there's a fight or flight mode. Fight, uh, or flight mode. That, uh, you know, what you do in psychology. And it was funny, I was remembering just, um, the other day that when I was in psychology, when I was a Psych 101, right. When I went to college, you know, years ago, that, uh, as my psychology teacher. Well, what happens? Well, okay, so you're telling me about fight or flight. So you're saying that either you fight or flight. So either you go do the thing or you run away, right? So I mean, it has to be one of those two things now just stop.

Speaker A: And.

Speaker B: Yeah, he stopped. I asked him that question because as I grew up as a martial artist, right. And I'm proud, practicing my. Right now. So what? That's been over since I was 8 years old. So it's over 27 years, right.

Speaker A: Of practice.

Speaker B: And I integrate that with, I integrate that with, uh, with business, right. And how I coach everyone. Um, and the fact is, if. Well, when I was learning, as I would learn the arts, I don't. I'm thinking of, okay, how do I just attack right away or how do I just run right away, right. That's kind of the secondary notion of what comes up in my mind. The first notion is, is to assess what's happening is to look at what's happening. So my teacher, my psych teacher back then, he says, okay, well, sure, there's fight and flight, but as long as the brain is having a response to what's happening, that's. That's what happens. Like as long as your brain is having a response, it's not doing nothing. Well, that's what happens in humans. So I always remember that because that's, that's always. I don't know if it's a misnomer of saying that, okay, we're either fight or flight because it's not really accurate. What's accurate first is that you can just see what's happening and then make a decision as what to do. You make a decision as to fight, you make a decision as to flee.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: You, you make a decision that if you're having a tough conversation that comes at you and you're just offended right now, or you just really don't agree, you know that the person's wrong. Maybe you, maybe you don't even have the evidence, but you have it in your hearts that you just know that they're coming across the wrong way or, or they're having the wrong information and they're wasting your time. So I've had plenty of conversations like this before. M can imagine managing teams and dealing with different kinds of people. Um, and so you know what, when you have opposition like that, then you're going to waste a lot of energy, a lot of relationship. If what you do right away, if the first thing you do is just automatically react because that reaction is usually 90 defensive. Right. Well, I know you're wrong. Stop saying this because this is what's right. Just follow me. And then we're gonna do this. And that's, that's so. The clash is so brunt. It's so unnecessary when it comes from human to human. Especially when you're trying to create things, which is what we do in business. We're always creating all the time. So that's the first thing, being able to see what's going on. After you see what's going on, then you make a decision as to what's going on by that decision making ability. It's going to depend on your emotional intelligence and also your uh, customized ability as to what you do as an individual, as Lewis as person, as what you do when things go wrong. Right. So that can be worked on, that could be tweaked and um, what I personally do together just give you that. What I personally do is um, take it in and decide what to do. But what I do is also remind myself of who I am. Right. So you need to be able to have that remembrance. So who are you when things go wrong? Who are you when you get knocked down? Who are you when you are at the top? Who are you when everything's going wrong around you?

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: And being able to understand that, because that comes back to the values that we were talking about. Um, the values and principles, then you have specific actions that you could do to actually exemplify that, to actually express that with yourself and or with your team.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So we could go more granular. I could talk more about that, but you're a great question.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's really, uh, comprehensive. I really appreciate that response. Um, I guess from that feedback is critical for growth. Right. Uh, uh, so, you know, feedback. Well, taking feedback yourself so you can, you know, look at something objectively for what you can improve upon and actually take action on it. And then giving feedback as well to help other people. Uh, do you have any quick tips on how to receive feedback and also give feedback to other people to help them grow?

Speaker B: Sure. So if you're ever born in. If you're ever born. Yeah, in the 80s or 90s, if you know what Tamagotchis are.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Or something like that. I don't know if I had one. One of those. Yeah, if you had maybe those portable Pikachus. I think I had one of those. No, not one. Something similar to a Tamagotchi. But if you were to discipline it too much, it's not coming back to you. Like, it's gonna. I. I forget how. I think it actually runs away.

Speaker A: I think mine died or something.

Speaker B: Some of these, they die or they run away. Like, that's. That's it. So being able to create that culture, but space. That's it. So being able to create the space of how to be able to have that kind of conversation of what needs to be said for the feedback.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Are you going to honestly start coming. How many. How often do you. I mean, just think about your parents, right?

Speaker A: Just.

Speaker B: Just the majority of us. How frustrating is it to actually have a specific conversation with them when, you know, maybe they're wrong about something or they grew up in a different time about thinking about something in a certain way, but you love them so much. So there's this, like, dichotomy of. Of intelligence, but also experience and emotions that's there. Well, how do you find that middle ground? Well, one of the things I've been doing for years, uh, now that is so difficult that I do that with my parents. Right. So, um, we have an even better relationship now. But that's the hardest kind of. Not retribution, but kind of filing of emotions that I've had to do. That restructuring of the understanding of where this person's coming from, where I'm coming from. Right. And. Okay. And then create the middle ground. You're creating the middle ground. It's no straight line, but you're creating it together. Together. So when it comes to feedback, just understanding that humans, first of all, even for the People that you love the most. Right. Which can be your parents, which is why I brought that up, that it's going to be difficult so you need to take ownership and responsibility that you, if you are in charge of someone else. Right. As a manager, as a company owner.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That it's supposed to be uncomfortable sometimes. And if you are not comfortable in that discomfort or with creating that discomfort between the two of you who are, you're having a conversation with, but then leading them into the right direction, if you're not having each one of those pieces, you're missing a lot of opportunity, you're missing a lot on the table. And that, I'm telling you, that's also a good reason as to why just like we were saying before people leave, people snark, not putting their, they're in, uh, all their energy into the job and uh, they'd like to be hired elsewhere. So that's, that's what needs to be done.

Speaker A: Yeah. So if you have the values aligned with, you know, growth for that person as well too. Right. If you come from that perspective of you're trying to help them grow, um, honestly I think the, the greatest, the greatest sign of success as a leader would be, you know, like you see the PayPal mafia, hear about those guys, right. They all go out and be successful. Um, but you know, if you could raise your team members and the people around you to be better and ultimately they go off even when they start their own company someday or what have you, that's a, uh, sign of success of a true leader. If you could actually, you know, work on cultivating and growing people and making them better and they could feel like that they're having that growth with you and that feedback is, is you know, mutually aligned with, with what their interests are and their values are. Um, I think that's, that's if you're coming from that perspective, I think it comes across a lot more easily without even trying. Right. If you genuinely care about other people, uh, growing and becoming better at what they do, uh, rather than, you know, hitting them with the stick, I guess, if you will, you'll actually see them do so and grow.

Speaker B: You know, I want to add something onto that real quick. But by being able to have you, it's, it's completely fine to have a high performing team and a, and a productive team at the same time. You know, it's just what I was saying all the way in the beginning of having both stick and carrot. And there's no reason why you, you can't. Right? You can have a high performing team, but also a team that rests, a team that you're like you as an individual, as the manager, the person who's in charge, you yourself are able to execute at a high level and put the, um, put the fire on when needed, but also be able to let go of the fist, be able to detach, be able to actually come back, be able to spend time with yourself. So it's kind of like the culmination of what we've all been talking about and create teams like that. It's just what it actually looks like. It's. You know, I could go in deep in depth about this, but first you're creating the culture, but you're chipping away little by little. So it's supposed to look like this part of the team is screwing up here or this part of the culture. Oh, it's not happening. If we would want. It's okay. Some parts are going to fall to the ground while you build up another part. So you're working on feedback, then you're working on uh, communication in general. You're working on your optimization of process. And then you're working on how to build actually real, uh, real relationships that are create depth. Right? So more trust for later. So you're working on all these things. And then like I like to, um, mention to my clients, I think of every individual as a huge castle, right? I think of businesses, I think of every individual who's running it is a huge castle. There's so much potential in you, so much that you're not even touching on your. The castle that you are spans so far wide that you can't even see the ends, right? And it's just so grand, it's so huge. And so what a lot of people do is they try to just. They worry about the entire castle all at once, right? They're just focused on every. It's so large you can't even see the ends of it. But what needs to be done is for you to focus and have discipline on one brick at a time. So each brick, just like you're building one tower for a certain reason, right? Maybe that's your job, maybe that's your personal relationship. To me, that's something. But it becomes so strong. And so when it's built on a great foundation, then you can move on to other parts of your castle and that's how you become strong all around. But that's what it's supposed to look like. It's supposed to feel like you're doing well. In one part while you build up the rest.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah. Don't micromanage everything. Right. Spend the time and craft the, you know, the perfect gate team to trust those guys to open the gate when the right people are coming in. And when the bad guys are coming in, they, uh, close that group right up. Uh, so I guess, uh, yeah, I would love if you could tell more people about, uh, what type of services you guys offer. Uh, tell them where they can learn more information and, uh, just kind of put your company on the spotlight here so you can advertise, uh, your services, if you will.

Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So if you are a professional, if you're a founder, if you're a manager, if you're an executive, being able to think you're being a little bit held back because of your mindset, if you think you're not achieving peak performance right now, then we should talk. Because either you're losing out on time, money, or your relationships, and that includes the relationship with yourself, which is the most important one. How you can come in contact with me, obviously, uh, I'm on LinkedIn. You can find me or you could go on my website. That's louisguaman.com L U I S G U A M A N dot com. I have a, ah, men's group, a men's community. So that's LewisQuillman.com backslash community. And I'm open, I'm open for a free assessment call. Right. For anyone listening, uh, to this. I love to make people better versions of themselves. So, um, and, you know, if you make more money along the way, if you have a better mentality and enjoy life with your purpose along the way, that's great. That's. That's the point. So there's a free assessment call that if I think I can help you with a game plan for something, it's free of charge. Um, and that's me.

Speaker A: Awesome. Well, Louis, uh, yeah, you could definitely find his business in our services marketplace as well. And I got to show you how to add an offer there because you should, uh, definitely put that free consultation offer in your under profile there. Um, because I think it's a great offer and I think, uh, a lot of companies don't have these level, uh, of discussions, and I think it could go a long way, uh, for a lot of companies out there that just, you know, they start a company and they just get, get down to business right away, but they don't take a step back and really look at the foundation of the company, which is the relationships, uh, both between the people you hire and you as founders or as leaders in the company, uh, horizontally as well. How do you build an inclusive culture with all the team members and employees feeling like they're part of a mission and everybody's aligned trying to get to the same place? Uh, so I definitely really valued the discussion today. I think there's a lot for a lot of people to learn from it, um, and really appreciate you coming on and looking forward to growing our businesses together.

Speaker B: I appreciate you, too, Andy. Thanks for having me. Thanks, buddy.