Courtney Stanley on Women's Empowerment in the Meetings Industry

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to this Meetings Today podcast. This is a special Women's History Month installment of the podcast. And, um, I'm really honored to bring the host of Dare to Interrupt podcast, which specializes in women's empowerment issues in the meetings and events industry. M so happy to bring aboard Courtney Stuff Stanley, for today's taping. Thanks, uh, for joining us, Courtney.

Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, thanks for having me on. I've got a big smile on my face. I always enjoy our conversations, and I

Speaker B: enjoy, um, I'm sort of the guy who, like, uh, processes your Dare to Interrupt podcast every month. And, uh, as, um, that responsibility, I look through the whole, you know, read the whole thing and really just embed myself in the whole thing. I really experience it. And, uh, I have to say, I mean, I have to. I feel a certain degree of imposter syndrome here, interviewing such a talented podcast host.

Speaker A: Well, I'm the one in the hot seat today, so I think you're good, right?

Speaker B: I mean, I was thinking you could do a whole special episode to Dare to Interrupt, just about my feelings of inadequacy.

Speaker A: Well, I think we do have some on imposter syndrome, so I can send you the links to those.

Speaker B: Oh, cool. Well, um, you know, thank you for joining us. I really just. I'm a big fan of your podcast. I learned so much. I always joke that, you know, if you weren't a podcast host, you could be a therapist because you just are such a great interviewer and, uh, and just really reveal people and bring out sides of them that aren't typically in front of other people. How do you. How do you explain your talent for that?

Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Well, thank you. Thank you. That means a lot. I think for me, it's so important to create spaces where people feel safe first and foremost, and seen second. I think that everybody deserves an opportunity to feel those two things. So for me, when I'm recording a podcast episode or when I'm doing an executive coaching session or whatever it may be, even taking the stage, my. My intention that I said is always those two things. Create a space that feels as safe as possible in order for people to feel seen in that moment. So for me, I don't know that it's the skill that came first. I think it was more the intention. And then through the experiences that I have been able to have as a speaker, podcaster, whatever it may be, those were skills that were able to be developed along the way.

Speaker B: And before we kind of turn back the clock and start from the beginning, why don't we explore some of the things you're working on, um, right now and in the near future, such as the, uh, Women to Watch Awards. Can you tell us more about them and what inspired you to launch this awards ceremony?

Speaker A: Oh my gosh. We are coming up on the Women to Watch Awards. Yes. So the I founded the Women to Watch Awards program back in 2021 was the first year that, that we launched. And really I wanted to create an opportunity that not only celebrated women during Women's History Month on International Women's Day is when we always announce the recipients of the award, but I also wanted to give women an opportunity to be amplified, you know, in our industry specifically, so much of the work that people do is done behind the scenes. And you know, much of our workforce are women professionals who are doing that work behind the scenes. And there are so many people in our industry that don't ever have an opportunity to be recognized by their peers. So the Women to Watch Awards is a peer nominated program. It's not a popularity contest. It's not how many votes can I get? It's not pay to play. It's an opportunity for people who are on the ground, working side by side to say, this woman has made a difference in my life. This woman has impacted her community. This woman has inspired me or has mentored me or I've watched them grow and I'm so proud. And, and this is her story. And from there we, you know, we share those stories with the rest of the industry. We put as much promotion around it as we possibly can to really amplify their value and also the impact that they make on those around them.

Speaker B: And I know we're, you know, taping this as you're, uh, kind of formulating, um, this year's Women to Watch Awards, but do you know where people can go to find out more about that or submit their nominations? Um, granted this will probably not be out until March, so I'm not sure where you'll be at in the process at that time.

Speaker A: Mhm. Yeah, so you can always go to my website, courtney-stanley.com and there will be more information there for peer nominations. Um, but you can also take a look at my socials. I'm Fairly Active on LinkedIn and Instagram and I will be promoting the heck out of this awards program. So you'll definitely find updates there. And then March 8th is International Women's Day this year. So that'll be the day that we announce all of the recipients of this year's award.

Speaker B: Well, excellent well, like I said, let's roll back the clock, um, to the beginning. How did you get into this industry?

Speaker A: I actually studied it in school. I fell into it. But in college I was lucky enough to have a hallway conversation with a fellow student who was doing an internship in Ireland for the summer. Throwing events at a castle. And I mean, to a 19 year old, I don't know if there's anything that sounds better than that. So I actually ended up switching my major over into, uh, event management, international tourism and business hospitality. And so I, it started at Central Michigan University and I was really, really lucky that I had a phenomenal professor, Dr. Lori Tuma, who introduced me to the world of networking and professional associations. And she was the one who really plugged her students into MPI at, ah, you know, 18, 19, 20, 21 years old. And that's where I began to learn the industry and meet people today that are still, you know, really, really good friends of mine. So it all started back then, and

Speaker B: I know, and I'm not sure if this is when I, you first came on my radar, but uh, definitely you made uh, definitely a name for yourself with the meetings two effort, um, with Sarah Solomon of Solomon Productions, um, which dealt, um, you know, brought both of you, I think, to. Of the industry conversation about sexual harassment of women at meetings and events. Why don't you tell us a little bit more about that time and how you and Sarah launched, um, this.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's. Thank you for that question, Tyler. So Sarah and I did found the meetings to movement within our space. And this was when the MeToo movement had resurfaced and there were a lot of different stories that were coming out in the news, specifically in Hollywood. And it led to a variety of conversations, not just with Sarah, but with other women and men in the industry about their own experiences. And there had been, you know, a number of incidents that had occurred with both Sarah and I in our industry, whether it was on site at events, networking events with clients, on volunteer, uh, boards and volunteer positions within, you know, chapters and committees. And we realized that there was a whole lot of inappropriate behavior, unethical behavior that was happening behind the scenes or you know, quite frankly, uh, right in the scene at these events that really weren't being discussed. And if something's not being discussed, then there's no opportunity to create a solution. So it really went from a conversation that Sarah and I had, you know, opening up about our own experiences to, okay, what do we do about this? And Sarah and I are both entrepreneurs. We're both problem solvers and we're both people that care a lot about our communities. And we decided to create different types of educational programming and trainings for meeting professionals to create safer events and also reporting systems for any conference, any meeting, any networking event so that they had plans in place to be able to address any issues or prevent issues that could possibly arise.

Speaker B: And you know, maybe this next question has something to do with that, but, um, you know, what kinds of conversations are women finally having now that they weren't having before?

Speaker A: You know, I think that I have seen in my experience, and I've been in our industry for about 15 years now, I have experienced more vulnerable conversations in general, I think. You know, even when I came into the industry, there was, and there still is, but there was a lot of normalcy around wearing a mask and keeping your head down, keeping your voice muted and just trudging through to make sure that the work was done and that the stakeholders were happy. And it's not that everything has changed, but I do believe that what has changed is that people are more frequently discussing what's going on behind the mask. So whether that is we're talking about stress management or burnout prevention or we're just being incredibly open about things that are going on in, uh, our lives because we are human beings, we're not just worker bees. So I will say that that's a really positive shift that I've seen occur. And I think we'll see a lot more of it. Tyler really do. Especially with younger generations that are coming into these workspaces who don't have the same tolerance for some of the lack of work life balance that we've seen in the past. I think there's going to be a lot more advocacy for taking care of ourselves as people first and work second.

Speaker B: Yeah. And it's interesting you bring up the generational aspect because I believe you're a millennial.

Speaker A: Yes, yes.

Speaker B: And I'm Gen X and I'm sort of, uh, feel I'm always between like the baby boom generation and maybe Millennial or Gen Z as a millennial, how do you see yourself in the conversation? And uh, do you see yourself as maybe sort of a bit of a bridge too? Like maybe Gen X people do?

Speaker A: I don't identify a lot with Gen X. I actually think that there are quite a, quite a few differences between Gen X and Gen Y, which is the millennial generation. They've actually done studies where they find more similarities between the boomer generation and my generation, Millennials. So I think that's actually a really interesting conversation to have and we'll have to dig into it deeper on another day. But I think that there, I think that there are leadership conflicts when it comes to generations, uh, that are butted up against each other in the workplace. So with Gen X managing, uh, millennials and so on and so forth, I think that it's just interesting to take a look at the generations that sit side by side. But I would say I am very much a millennial. But I think there are things that Gen Z is bringing into the workforce that I really admire. I think that there, there is a lot more advocacy around boundaries and whether that's self care, whether that's, uh, you know, work life balance. I think that there, and there has to be a balance. It's not that one generation is doing everything right and one generation is doing everything wrong. There are things to be learned from every single generation that will continue to benefit us. So I just, yeah, I'm through and through, very much a millennial. But there are certain things from other generations that I have really appreciated and learned from.

Speaker B: What impact are you most proud of? Especially the kind that doesn't always show up in metrics, uh, regarding what you do.

Speaker A: You know, I'm going to go Back to the Meetings 2 movement for a minute here, because I remember there was one show in particular, and this is Years after the Meetings 2 movement had its moment, I'll say, where we were doing a lot of education, we were doing a lot of trainings, we were really focused, and then we shifted our focus into other areas as the years went on. But I remember there was one conference and, uh, there was a young woman and it was her first conference that she had ever attended. And we didn't really know each other. We'd been introduced via email, but we, we'd never met in person. And she, she found me on the show floor and she asked me if I would be willing to listen to her for a moment and give her some advice. And she had shared with me that something inappropriate had happened to her during this show and she didn't know what to do. That opportunity to have a conversation, to simply just listen and support, that I would say would be one of the moments that I feel the most proud. Because having conversations about sexual harassment in the industry and calling out behavior that, that isn't okay isn't always, you know, easy. And it's, it, it does come with certain consequences, some of them social, political consequences where, you know, people don't always want to stand next to you or be in your corner. And most people, most people do, but there are social, political consequences. And so in moments where you have that opportunity to make a difference for somebody because you took a risk and decided to be bold, be honest, be transparent, and be courageous, those are the moments that can never be measured. But those are the moments that I feel truly grateful.

Speaker B: Uh, what does it cost you, personally or professionally, to show up as boldly and visibly as you do?

Speaker A: Uh, I feel that there are a few different ways to answer this question. So professionally, I would say that there are way more benefits and there's way more value in being bold and being courageous. And I won't even say that the consequences were super impactful, but they did exist. Um, so going back to the Meeting sue movement for a moment, I do believe that there were some doors that had been open for opportunities to lead that were closed because I may have been looked at as somebody who wasn't willing to sweep things under the rug when they shouldn't have been swept under, under the rug. I think when you are somebody who holds others accountable, not everybody's going to like that, specifically the people being held accountable, but also the people who would have been okay with not holding other people accountable. I will say personally, so not just professionally, but personally, I truly believe that being authentic and standing in your truth is the best way to know who is meant to be by your side. So there have been friends, there have been mentors along the way, that when you decide to move boldly or to practice courage will stand by you and they'll never move. And there are people who don't. And so I wouldn't say that it's a loss, but I would say that it's a consequence. Yet the pros definitely outweigh the consequences

Speaker B: and to, you know, be out in front and be bold. It may seem counterintuitive to think someone like you may have, as we mentioned before, imposter syndrome, but I, you know, I've heard you talk about it on your podcast enough, um, to know that, you know, authentically you do grapple with that. How have you navigated imposter syndrome or self doubt while building your platform?

Speaker A: Two things come to mind. I, and I will say I still suffer from imposter syndrome. And I think anybody who's, who's trying to grow or to level up in any kind of way will experience some kind of intrusive thought or inner critic or self doubt. So I don't think it's, it's something that ever completely goes away if you're willing to grow and willing to change. But two things really come to mind. The first is that it's really important to surround yourself with people who remind you of who you are. The moments that I have doubted myself or I have questioned whether I belong in a certain room, at a certain table, in a certain space are the moments that I have had really committed loyalty. Friends who have come to bat and said, you are exactly where you're meant to be. This, this is exactly the right time for you to be there. And you have all the credibility in the world to be standing in that space. So I think having a village to support you and to remind you of who you are is one of the most important ways to push forward. But I think, uh, you know, in addition to that, imposter syndrome can really only be resolved if you're willing to continue doing the thing that scare Confidence is a process of developing muscle and doing the reps over and over and over again. And there's actually a really beautiful science and psychology and biology to this, where when we do something that scares us, our brain looks a certain way. When we do the thing that scares us over and over and over again, our brain starts to develop new neural pathways that reinvent what that space actually is. So what once was scary has now become normal. So doing the reps and surrounding yourself with people who remind you that you're in the right place to do those reps, I would say, are the two ingredients that really help to cure imposter syndrome until you get it again.

Speaker B: Basically. Imposter syndrome kind of speaks to authenticity too. I mean, who would not have imposter syndrome? I would think you would want to be wary of people who are just too confident of their abilities and themselves.

Speaker A: I mean, I wouldn't believe it, to be honest, if somebody was.

Speaker B: It's like a mask, right? As you said before, it's a facade.

Speaker A: And I. It is. And I think it's, you know, it's. We always hear the expression fake it till you make it. And I think that there is a certain magic in that. But I prefer face it till you make it where you can. You can be a human and acknowledge I'm afraid, you know, and you can do the hard thing. You can practice courage, and then you can learn and you can grow from there. But I don't think there's a human being on this planet who has never experienced any kind of self doubt or inner critic or fear when trying something new or at a different level for the first Time.

Speaker B: I think I'm looking at a quote here from Bert Bertrand Russell. The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wise people are so full of doubts. Right?

Speaker A: Amen. Yes, yes, absolutely.

Speaker B: Um, what's one belief about leadership you had to unlearn before you became who you are today?

Speaker A: I think it's actually just that. I think that if you were to ask me about leadership maybe, you know, 15, 20 years ago, I might have looked at external factors as what defines leadership, such as successes, recognition, uh, you know, different popularity, different external factors that position someone as a leader. And, you know, along the way, I have very much learned that it's quite the opposite. I believe that what makes great leaders is authenticity, it's vulnerability, it's self accountability, it's excellent communication skills, and it's a willingness to continue to reflect, to increase self awareness and to improve.

Speaker B: What's something you wish more women knew about their power in this industry? I mean, uh, I've been covering this industry for like 25 years and always seems the ratio is like about 80% of planners are women. Yet they don't, uh, you know, maybe represent, they aren't represented in the leadership, maybe as high as they should. What is one thing, you know, one belief about leadership you had to unlearn?

Speaker A: So for women in this, this industry, and thinking about the power that women have, I would say that everything that you need, you already have inside of you. You know, even if we look at statistics, if we look at studies, if we look at research of the percentage of, of information, knowledge and experience that women feel they need to have to apply for a position, it's so much higher than if you were to look at the experience and knowledge that a man feels he needs to have in order to apply for a position, we spend far too much time doubting ourselves and not practicing the power that we truly already have inside of us. And through our experiences, when we really should be, we should be moving boldly, we should be taking risks, we should be asking for help, we should be positioning ourselves to be seen because we do so much work behind the scenes. You know, uh, even just. I was thinking about this earlier today. The, the amount of unpaid labor that women perform in their lives. And I'm speaking holistically so not just professionally, but holistically as daughters, as nieces, as sisters, as mothers, as aunties, as professionals and professionals more specifically in our industry, the amount of unpaid labor where we are doing things behind the scenes that are not compensated or Recognized is far too high. I think we are putting ourselves at a disadvantage to not set boundaries, to not delegate, and to not advocate for ourselves.

Speaker B: Interesting. Yeah, um, for sure, 100%. Um, and, you know, this is a culmination of all the knowledge that you've gathered, uh, through your 15 years in the industry. But if you could speak directly to the version of yourself just starting out, uh, fresh into in the industry, what would you tell that person?

Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. And it's so fun to look back. You know, it's fun to look back and piece everything together and understand why you're here today and why everything happened. But if I were to go back and give myself any kind of advice or reminder, I would tell her not to feel like you're too big for any space and that your voice is too loud and to not ever dim your light for anybody, for any boss, any leader, any coworker, any dynamic that you are exactly who you need to be for this moment, and that's enough.

Speaker B: And we're getting near the end here, but just in general, how do you hope women feel when they encounter your work?

Speaker A: Like they can do anything and that they have. They have the support around them to do it. I really think confidence is. It's such a gift, and I think it's something that, you know, we learn and we build as we continue to take risks and not know the outcome. And I do also believe that confidence is something that occurs and grows and develops, you know, when we do fail and when we fall down. So I would say let yourself take those risks. Let yourself be open to learning. Let yourself be open to growing, and know that you can do anything. And if you've got the right people around you, you definitely will be unstoppable.

Speaker B: Well, thanks for joining us. Before we, uh, m. End the. The broadcast or the taping, uh, today, what's next for you and how does it continue to serve women in this industry?

Speaker A: Oh, I'm very excited. So what's next? I am actually in Create mode right now, and this. This was one of the podcast episodes, actually, for Dare to. To Interrupt with, uh, Sasha Solodziak. She talked about how there are different seasons of life that we go through. And if you think of, you know, winter, spring, summer, fall, there are different energies that come with different seasons. So, for example, you know, sometimes we're in a season of dormancy and rest, which could look like winter, and sometimes we're in spring, where we're growing and creating. So I'm excited that I truly feel like I am in a space of creating and of moving and of just doing things differently. It's also the Year of the Horse, which is meant to be a very fiery year where we are taking action. So for me, I am going to be much more focused on a couple of things. First and foremost, support through different coaching programs. So a lot of my work has been focused on, you know, the podcast, it's been speaking, but I'm going to be launching some new coaching opportunities that are focused on, uh, oh, gosh, do I give it away? Yes, I'll, um, give it away.

Speaker B: You give it away right here on the Meetings Today podcast. You heard it here first time m

Speaker A: it's ever been announced. So I will be launching a group coaching program centered all around the concept of having audacity. So really looking at the world as an opportunity to step fully into your potential and to be fully the person that you allow yourself to be. So there will be some group coaching around that and then I am going to be growing my executive coaching program and doing a lot more one on one work. So thank you, Tyler, for your comment around, uh, being a therapist, because that is much of what that work can feel like and I really love it and enjoy it. Um, and then there will be some other new things along the way, but those are the two that I'm most excited about.

Speaker B: Well, I can't wait to see how it turns out. And you know, and as I've been talking to you, I just think how wonderful it is in our industry that we have people like you and even just formats for people like you to share these thoughts. Um, you know, it's not just, ah, you know, dates, rates and space. Right. Ah, you delve deep into the psyche of, uh, the people who make this their living and their life. So, you know, just personally much appreciation for what you do for our industry.

Speaker A: Well, and I have to say, you know, with a full heart of gratitude, you know, thank you to you, Tyler, and the whole meetings today team, because, you know, I came to you back in 2019 and pitched the idea for Dare to Interrupt and you know, without too many questions, you said, let's, let's go, let's do it. And you really allowed me to create whatever it is I had a vision for and just run with it and roll with it and this, none of this would exist, this moment would not exist if it weren't for your partnership, your support and your friendship. So I really appreciate you from the bottom of my heart and the team as well. You guys are the best and the best to work with.

Speaker B: Thank you. We feel the same way about you. Um, and so other people can feel the magic. Uh, how can they get in touch with you, Courtney?

Speaker A: Definitely go to my website. So courtney-stanley.com you can learn anything about my services. Uh, you can get in touch that way as well. I'm a big LinkedIn user, so you can find me easily on LinkedIn, Courtney Stanley. And if you want to check me out for more personal updates, you can go to Instagram at. Courtney. Courtney on stage.

Speaker B: Wow. Well, thank you, Courtney, for joining us today.

Speaker A: Thank you, Tyler. This has been awesome.

Speaker B: And thank you for listening to this Meetings Today podcast. I'm, um, Tyler Davidson, vice president and chief Content Director for Meetings Today. Um, if you're interested in more of our podcast, just head on over to meetingstoday.com and check out our podcast section for lots of interviews with interesting thought leaders in the meetings and events industry. Once again, thanks to Courtney, and thanks to all of you for joining us today. Um, no matter what you're up to with the rest of it, go out and make it great.