105. Series 4 | Episode 5. The Current State of SaaS Brand Building and AI in B2B Marketing, with Michelle Huff, CMO at Alteryx

Matt Dodgson: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Market Mentors podcast. I'm Matt Dodgson, co founder of Market Recruitment and we connect B2B tech and SaaS businesses with marketers to help them grow. This week we're joined by Michelle Huff. Michelle is Chief Marketing Officer uh, of Alteryx, joining the company this year as it enters a new exciting chapter of innovation and growth. Prior to Alteryx she served as CMO at uh, User Testing and Acton Software and held senior marketing and product leadership roles at Salesforce and Oracle with a strong focus on data management. And today we're going to be talking about the current state of SaaS brand building and the real promise of AI in B2B marketing today. I hope you enjoy. So welcome to the Market Mentors podcast Michelle. Thanks for having me, Absolute pleasure. So you've had this interesting career journey through B2B SaaS. Kate, can you give us a quick version of how you've ended up as CMO at Alteryx?

Michelle Huff: Yeah, right, I could do it really long one. No, I think uh, well my journey started uh, late 90s, early 2000s, um and uh, went at first kind of the hands on tech route. The technology was helping people uh, build websites and uh, so did technical marketing, product marketing, web marketing, all that type of stuff. And then um, I uh, and then through that ended up getting acquired into Oracle and so really spent the early part of that first decade all the underpinnings of building sites, applications, workflows. Right, all like the B2B heavy weight stuff. And those are all the days you had to build it yourself in order to build demos and train people. And then uh, along the journey ended up moving to Salesforce, um, kind of seeing what it was like to be more on the cloud. Ah that was new and growing and um, going from Oracle to Salesforce was uh a fun leap. Um, and then also just really being able to see life on more of the application side, more of that prepackaged. And uh, I was part of data.com and so that was uh for me a really interesting experience to really understand the reality of where data actually is like in a lot of organizations, uh, where you aspire to be on a marketing side and then what it really is like. And so that was ah a fun journey. And then I started going into my first roles of um, CMO for a marketing automation company, um with act on and then at User Testing I almost felt it was like a little cherry on top of understanding then user experiences and the whole point of right, you could be building all these apps. But what is it actually like? Do people, um, find it intuitive? Do they use it? Do they like it? How do you actually build applications with a great experience? Um, come full circle here with alteryx, kind of going back to my data and my application workflow roots. And, um, what it does kind of remind me of is it's like, it's, it's all the data parts. But right now we're in this interesting spot, I feel like, in technology that reminds me a lot of the late 90s, early 2000s, where back then it was like, ooh, digital and websites and Internet's going to change the world. And now I feel like we're kind of doing that with AI And I think everyone's having this, like, moment of, I think data really matters for AI, Right. And, wow, data actually is, uh, really messy and doesn't actually. Right. Especially if you're trying to understand it from the business side. And so it's, it does kind of feel like coming home to data and kind of the underpinnings and being in this new kind of transformational part of technology.

Matt Dodgson: And it's interesting to hear you talking about building websites. I mean, you know, this is. We are, you know, we are in this second phase, aren't we, really, with AI. So, uh, well, the interesting thing, it feels like it's a long time ago.

Michelle Huff: Yeah, right. Like, I don't feel that old. Um, but I remember being at trade shows and what we did is we, we would take, um, we didn't just build public websites, there was intranets. Like, the idea of an Internet was all new and so we could take all these Word documents and all this documentation and put them on the web for you. And I remember people would go, wow, why would I want to read all this documentation on a monitor? Isn't that amazing? Like, that was the objection back in the day. And so I do feel like now I'll prob. But we'll all laugh a little bit about, uh, like our kind of almost lack of imagination, uh, in this new kind of world of AI. And we'll be like, oh, I can't believe we didn't see it. Um, or we thought that that was going to be not what people are willing to do.

Matt Dodgson: Yeah, indeed, indeed. So we were talking before we actually started recording a little bit about your journey and the fact that you've had so much experience across the different phases of growth, haven't you? Startups, IPOs. We talked about you ringing the bell on Wall Street, AC M, mergers, you've Kind of been through a lot of it from a brand perspective and which is one of the areas that we're talking about today there. What would you say is one of the lessons that kind of applies across all those phases?

Michelle Huff: Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I feel like um, you know, maybe for different listeners, no matter where you're at, your kind of career journey. One thing that um, I reflected on, you know, in taking kind of CMO roles and some of these leadership roles is there's different phases of companies and the different kind of C level or CMO you're looking for. Right. Because I feel like sometimes when you're in this really early startup phase, you're trying to, you're trying to grow, trying to prove there's more product market fit. And so there's a lot of demand gen kind of minded um, marketing leaders that um, people will really bring in. And then there's these other parts of the journey where um, they're really wanting people who have um, messaging and positioning skills. Because you're brought in to reposition the company, you're repositioning them for growth, right? They finally figured product market fit and kind of startup land. And they're like we need to, we need to reposition to hire. Right? Like we're selling to a lot of users and we're needing to resonate now higher up, um, with different buyers or we're trying to reach out into new audiences because we, we kind of need to find that next level or we're about to go IPO and we need to start positioning for investors and for the broader market or we've done a merger and now we don't know what it looks like when these two things together. So I just feel like through all of that um, there's these moments where you know my background with more product marketing, product messaging, um, I've tended to be brought in in these moments of reintroducing for example Alteryx to the market and um, and in that brand is so important. And I think what I've learned too is it really is the message, right? It's, it's what is that story? Who are you? What are you trying to do? And does that actually resonate? And so, you know, I think when I started at, at Salesforce they always had this um, way of working where you were constantly iterating on message and iterating and testing and trying to make sure you're doing it outside in and not doing the ivory tower one where you work a lot of time, then you're like ta da. That one's like this doesn't make sense. And so I think, you know, brand can't just be logos and just a campaign. I think it, the heart of it is really who are you speaking to, who are you going after and what message do you have that's unique and different? Um, and that needs to shine through

Matt Dodgson: and we're seeing it more important at the moment. And interestingly we will see more roles being hired around brand. We're talking to tomorrow, uh, a $2 billion uh, value valued company, a VC backed uh, company, one of the fastest growing SaaS companies in the world that's going to be recruiting for a head of brand. We didn't necessarily see those typ roles for VC probably.

Michelle Huff: Right. They used to be like, yeah, like can we hide that role

Matt Dodgson: or we'll bolt it onto somebody else's role.

Michelle Huff: Yeah, right, yeah. Ah, no. And I think that people. I also feel like what's been interesting about marketing is you're always trying to um, write right message, right time and it's hard when there's lots of messages or techniques that everyone's doing. So it's like how do you stand out, how do you, how do you get recognized? And when everyone sounds the same, what's you and what's different, what's unique. And I think that's where I think a lot of the times, um, brand starts to come back. Right. People are like, oh, it can't just be spending all the dollars finding the few people that 5% that's in market ready to buy and trying to like focus on that. Because you've missed, right. Getting all the people who would consider you or help them identify their problems in a different way.

Matt Dodgson: Yeah. One of the things that I hear a lot about is B2B tech and certainly the marketers within those companies struggle with you know, that boring enterprise brand perception from your. And you know, it can be a struggle at times, can't it? So are people really going to be interested in what work in a marketing sort of thing? So but from your perspective, I mean how do you make like a data analytics platform feel compelling without kind of dumbing it down too much? Um, yeah.

Michelle Huff: Ah, no, it is hard. Right. I also, I, you know, just in full transparency because my background's a product marketer, you know, over the years people like no, no, like stop. It's like not even just about product. Michelle can't just, you know, it's not just. And I feel like B2B, we do and I've over the years. It's funny, I've sometimes like done the daydream, you know. I wonder what it'd be like to be a B2C marketer. Be one like where you're marketing apples. You know, like everyone knows what an apple is and everyone knows like you, you eat apples and why you would want to have an apple, you know, like versus I feel like so much about B2B is people don't. They're like, they're not even quite sure they have a problem and they don't know like what is all the technology. Right. It doesn't always make sense to people. So I think the trying to simplify it in a way that makes sense is important. But then you get so focused on that part you forget like brand unite, uh, brands larger than that. Sometimes it's how the company makes you feel. Right. And so which is why I think a lot of the, the B2B tech stuff can come across. I think you've probably seen all this funny spoofs on LinkedIn where we make fun of ourselves or people make fun of us about, you know, how they would take a Apple, you know, if they were a B2B tech, you know, how they would position. It's always like so like filled with all of the words and all like the things you're trying to say. So I think uh, wheels are fighting against ourselves, um, in a way. But I think um, for me I do feel like something especially like data, um, you know, kind of having all these different experiences at companies. Uh, when you have more of a, an application there's a certain like process or certain thing that it does. Um, when you're have technology that's I guess a little lower in the stack, it's data, um, it's harder to understand. But it's also my mind, I think so much more creative because you, it can do so many different things. And so I think it's really how you tell that story is through the success of your customers and showing shining a light on all those different use cases because then that's when people start to uh, understand what you do through the lens of how they can relate to someone else in their company and the problem sets that they're solving.

Matt Dodgson: Can you get creative, do you think, do you think you will push the creative button that uh, we will try

Michelle Huff: in four months in here at Alteryx. So yeah, you'll have to, we'll do another one next year and you can be like Michelle, not creative enough.

Matt Dodgson: But we're going to try, uh, one of the things you mentioned, obviously you've taken over sort of marketing at Alteryx. Is this the new platform, the Alteryx One platform? When you're coming into a business that's been around for a while, it's pretty established from a brand perspective, then what would you be sort of focusing on the first 90 days then, um, in terms of this sort of platform evolution?

Michelle Huff: Yeah, yeah. I mean it's interesting I think, um, for coming in, I'm four months in and Alteryx has been around for over 20 years, which is amazing. It has over 8,000 customers. We have a community of over 700,000, which is pretty mind blowing. M And so, you know, I think for me, you know, you're always trying to get your quick wins, but I'm also trying to do a lot of listening and learning. Um, because, you know, so much of our brand and our history of how people relate to the company is through all these brand ambassadors and champions. I mean we even have some people who over the years the technology's really changed their career paths. I mean we've had some people who are like, I've literally tattooed your logo because they're such fans, which is amazing as a marketer to walk into a company and have that kind of fan base. And what you don't want to do is uh, you know, have those brand fill moments where you've got this idea and you know, you're, you're just coming in, you're going to change everything and not hear from those people and not hear internally about what makes us special and unique, but then also balance that with where we're headed. Um, so, you know, Alteryx also has a new CEO who started, um, December and so there's a lot of new leadership team and we're all coming in with all these, you know, ideas and where we're trying to take the company. And so, you know, it is a lot of trying to like hear. You know, for me I feel like it's, we're working on the corporate narrative and it's, it's not the marketing message, it's what is the CEO's vision for where this is headed. How do I better crystallize and articulate that and make sure that what our chief product officer is building is actually planning to deliver that. Right. So that, you know, I don't want to just be coming up with stuff that uh, everyone's like, oh, it's just like the marketing message. We're not really delivering this. And so it's been a lot of um, learning. Iterating making sure that we're kind of on the same page and that we're all aligned and then making sure that the, you know, our croat, you know, who's been out there talking with customers also, um, you know, sees that that level of messaging resonates and then we're, we're also shopping around to different users and buyers. So lots of iterating and listening and trying and you know, I'm a big fan of. You put something out there and you learn a lot through all the feedback. So we're, we're getting ready to do some kind of nice launches soon. But the first three months was a lot of, lot of learning.

Matt Dodgson: Keep posted. Keep, keep posted then. So, uh, well, you mentioned your CRO then talking to customers. I mean, customer advocacy seems to be a theme from looking at your background that sort of runs through your career. Um, and it's a topic for a lot of companies as well. They want their customers to be advocates for obvious reasons. But from your perspective, from your experience, then what's one practical way that maybe B2B marketers could turn customers into brand builders without it sometimes feeling a bit forced?

Michelle Huff: Yeah, right. Um, I think some of the nice things that people have really done is win. Sometimes it's really tempting to just focus on buyers, right. And champions who are going to be, who have the vision of how they're going to roll things out. And so I think, um, you know, where you, you get, you know, a lot of the, the brand love, you know, it, it obviously can't just be a marketing thing. It's really great when from a product side, you know, the product delivers on that brand value and that experience of how they purchased it does. But I think a big part is how can you in marketing facilitate, right, like there's events and there's programs that we can do to um, make sure that other users find each other, that you can have them sharing their stories and getting other people to be excited about that. And you know, because people all have amazing, uh, you know, no matter where your career, if you are putting yourself out there to take on something new, right, and trying to drive something, there's a little of your own kind of brand capital that you're putting out there. And oftentimes, you know, just sometimes even in marketing, you can really help tell their stories. So there's um, you know, people that I've had in my company where, you know, it's working with them on their success stories, um, getting them to, you know, raise the hand. But sometimes you have to work with them to help get the approvals from pr. Right. You know, and you don't realize that, like, if you can be a partner with them because they don't even know how to get those approvals, help them tell a story. You know, you can see what they do and how do you shine that light in a different way? Um, all those things matter and then we're like a great amplification. You know, it's like, ooh, come to this particular event. Share this story I want you to be on stage and, and I think that, um, and if you create the, the watering holes, the places where people can share, um, it's kind of amazing how, um. Um, you know, it. Especially nowadays when I think people get overwhelmed by all the noise, that when people are learning new things, you tend to tend to the people you trust. You're like, hey, like, what are you doing? And I think those are those, like, brand moments where someone says, you know, I've started to solve it this way or done it this way. And like, I was so excited. I was just yesterday I was reading, um, someone on LinkedIn, he, he. Over the weekend, he was like, you know, everyone's talking about all this, like, AI stuff. And I decided to go back and I was playing with Alter and uh, he's like, I felt like I just went through a whole, like, rediscovery of like, we're trying to like, reinvent when I could really just use this and here's what I'm doing. And you know, he shared this amazing post and you're just, um, like, those are the moments that you want and it's not just a marketing thing. But I think how you then start to work with those people and, um, you know, give them a platform. It's important.

Matt Dodgson: Yeah, I think people can see the sort of sales quite easily, can't they? So seeing.

Michelle Huff: Oh, right. I feel like the whole generation of us, everyone, you know, I feel like my kids see it too. Right?

Matt Dodgson: They're like, oh, but it's everywhere, isn't it? I mean, you know, I ride my bike quite a bit. When they launch a new bike, you can see the marketing speed coming through a little bit. They're just pushing a little bit harder. But maybe when an influencer talks about the bike, you know, I can identify with that a bit more. So B2B is similar, isn't it? From a customer, Customer advocacy point of view, do you tend to find that from your experience that sales drives those conversations? Should it be marketing's responsibility to. To generate that kind of stuff or even customer success, where do you typically see it coming from?

Michelle Huff: I mean for me I feel like it's a like ideally top down corporate culture. Right. I mean I think that um, if it's just, it's kind of like if, if people think brands just marketing, it falls flat. Right? Because how you show up in sales and customer success, how the product shows up, right? Like how even you know, accounting, how we, you know, show up when we're working with people like that. We're all these moments are what people think about when they think of your company and your brand over time. And so I think when it comes to, to use cases and customer advocacy, you know, I think it's um, you know, if, if sales is helping to drive some of those conversations, helps identify who they are, that's great customer success as well. I mean if they're goal is to really help customers be successful and then helping them, um, you know, connect people and connect them to the forums and the places, you know, and if marketing is also doing that, I think it's, you know, we also have product oftentimes because they're, they're having all these conversations and calls with customers and so I think making um, sure that everyone, you know, as a company culture is thinking about customer success. Thinking about we don't just want people who pay for it but are truly, you know, we want to, we want to be able to, to really solve real problems and help them be successful. Because then that's when you know, you don't have to ask them to be an advocate. People just share their success because they're so excited about it.

Matt Dodgson: Yeah, good stuff. So shift in the conversation and this, this might surprise you a little bit, but you know, quite a few people are talking about AI in marketing.

Michelle Huff: I know. You know, and talks topic.

Matt Dodgson: I know. Well, this is, this is new territory.

Michelle Huff: This is a field pivot. Matt.

Matt Dodgson: But from your side, I mean what's, what's working, I mean is, is there one, perhaps one use case that you've maybe uh, implemented that's, that's driven some business results and within Alteryx or even in some of your previous one or two companies, it's obviously not been around for too long, is it?

Michelle Huff: Yeah, I know, right? Um, no, I feel like uh, you know, it's super interesting. I think we were talking earlier about how, you know, in the early days, um, this is reminding me, right? Like you're kind of in tinkering phase. You're learning, you're trying to be like, oh, could I use it in this area. Um, you know, we. What's interesting is Andy, uh, our CEO kind of has a mandate right now where we're. We're trying to, you know, kind of disrupt ourselves with AI. So we're our, you know, all the leaders or people are trying to like, rethink in this new world of AI and agents. Like, how would I think of changing marketing? How would I, um, you know, do things AI first? So four months in building out my strategy, there's these things. But, uh, as a company, that means we've all had access to, um, the enterprise version of ChatGPT. So we're all armed with that. Um, you know, there's a lot of initiatives, uh, that people have taken to start implementing things. One that, um, has been really interesting is, um, we've. We've pulled together. Um, part of it's been this combination of AI and our product. But we've taken a lot of the data from, um, sales, um, CRM from, um, uh, you know, LinkedIn from our Zoom info and some of these different things to make sure that we have now access to all this information to be able to use ChatGPT through it. But we also created, um, they called it personalize. And so what we were finding with SDRs, um, whenever they were, um, outbounding, right, you think about the typical process they go through and they're hunting and looking and they find someone and then they now have to then go look and see, okay, is that person already a customer or is it a prospect? Have we talked to them before? And then they go in and check into Zoom Info to see like, okay, how, like what, uh, information. And then they go to LinkedIn to kind of see, see what they post on and all these different types of things. Um, we built a little solution that it's like an anhatz workflow where it uh, will they just drop in the names into kind of their Watch folder and then it goes and dynamically looks in all those different sources and then it um, does a few, um, kind, uh, of policy checks. So we want it to make sure we understand the GDPR rules. Um, we don't want to make sure, um, there's like PII rules. And so we put a few of those rules in there and then, um, we had it automatically generate a prospect email. So then we put in some rules of like, okay, based on what you know, I want you to generate, um, uh, you know, a prospecting email leveraging some of this information and then it puts it in the SalesLoft folder and so then uh, when they walk in they have a draft email um that they can uh use as a starting point. They can send as is or they can personalize it from there. And so um, that use case just end to end has been great because uh, we've started rolling it out over the last few months and um, started to see lift in um uh open rates but also lift in response rates and uh, you know in some sense with outbound what's hard is because you're comparing different kinds of leads. And so we also tested user gems so that's uh, you know um, existing people and then we tried it with using our personalized um capabilities versus not and we saw a 4% lift um just that little trial which is, which is great. And so uh, we've started to just continually evolve because that the next one we did was um um with our data science team of coming up with like lead scoring. And so we take different factors of what we know. Um some things like for example um, if um, if they had Alteryx um anywhere in their job history or any post or if there's like how long they've been in certain industries or something like that there's like a scoring um but then we've been able to use that for some of the customizations of the, the email as well as the prioritization of of who goes first. And so um, yeah it's been a, it's kind of mind blowing. Um you know because there's certain things where if you're trying to start there's parts where you're just using Gen AI right? And there's, there's a lot of products we have where we're like let's go try this new feature. I um, think there's the using OpenAI as just your own assistant. I think that people have been finding a ton of like really interesting like use cases and value personally. But this is one I think is great where it's taken like almost an end to end process and thinking how do we automate that and AI assist it um in a way and you know because it starts creating a whole new level of scale and then you're able to also um, just continually iterate on that and, and I think just even doing one all the way through lets us start thinking ooh, are there other places where um it's super manual today and we could add so much value as humans in different parts of that process. Um and uh, instead of spending all the time on that one I think

Matt Dodgson: it's a Good place to start, isn't it? You know. Yeah, I think it's a good place to start because not only are you then you know, having an output as in you are getting a better response, but you're also saving time throughout that process as well, aren't you? So it is a very time intensive sort of process. That big brain dump if you like, or that OS where you put everything in. Then do you also then use that from a marketing perspective for things like positioning or market research or.

Michelle Huff: Yeah, we're calling it. So it's with um, the CRO as well. We call um, it Rev iq. And so I mean there's just interesting things where, where you know, we're going through and sometimes it's um, you know, if you're trying to, to understand, um, you know, customer information. So I was working on something with an account team and so you're, you're interacting with it, just you know, having conversations, um, but it's like you're, it's like conversational analytics, right? Because then you start actually getting access to all the data suggests different things. Would you like me to show you the product history of everything that they purchased? You're like, y. Yes, yes I would. You know, and it's just so that's been really fun. We're trying to build it now. The way I kind of think about it is I think of marketing in like the three buckets of where I could add, where a lot of these things could add value. One is there's a huge part of, a huge part of marketing where you're, you're trying to, to represent the buyer, the market, the customer. So you need to do a lot of research, you know, within that landscape, um, you know, in the industry. And so there's a lot of ways that I think AI can help quickly bring in a lot of that information, help synthesize, you know, and help guide decisions of who do you want to target, how do you want to build these campaigns, all that great stuff, right? So there's the market research phase and then there's the like help us do stuff, right. There's so much in marketing where you know, with all the programs, like all the manual work that we do and all the manual, like it's just like, it's amazing the amount of heavy lift, right of uh, that all these little processes. And so I think there's parts where we're, we're starting to like look through, um, different steps of how we can automate that. And then the, the last piece is like okay, we've learned, we've done, how do we do? And so there's a whole like marketing performance piece. So that one kind of almost similar to the, the Rev iq. We're trying to um, create more of our kind of analytics to feed it so that um, we can better say, hey, at these types of events, like um, how did they perform? Um, you know, what kinds of buyers did we end up having? And so just to really help, you know, not just an aggregate look at a report, but whenever marketers are trying to plan new events, to be able to kind of reflect back on other programs that maybe other people have run and um, get some of the insights in that more conversational way.

Matt Dodgson: Gotcha. Makes sense. Makes sense. One of the things you mentioned there, I think was some of the AI features of Alteryx. Um, and I hear this a lot as in, you know, companies just bolting on AI to a product. Ah, certainly in terms of the sort of messaging perhaps, um, but from your side, I mean what have you changed, do you think, in terms of how you message AI features then, um, to perhaps help customers actually believe that it's AI then rather than sort of like just slapping it on like every other vendor does then. M.

Michelle Huff: Yeah, you know, I think um, you know there's. It's interesting because we've done a lot um, in the product and we, we have a lot more that we're building out. But um, you know, there's different ways where you know, like um, one is like a copilot and a lot of um, B2B technology are starting to build these, right? Where um, instead of someone going into the application and clicking all the buttons and dragging and dropping and all these things and having to know how to do something, there's this kind of AI assistant where you can in natural language say like, hey, I want to do XYZ or help me do blah, blah, blah. And then it just kind of in the background is building that starting point for you. So we've got those kind of things, which is um, great. And I think that um, you know, people are starting to have a frame of reference for that. So I think the copilot concepts people are starting to get, I think the things that are newer, um, is uh, some of the capabilities that we're putting in so that when you're building the flows, um, you can leverage AI as a part of the process. And so that one I'm learning is I think people, um, people get, get it at a high level, right? And then they get it at a Even most a technical level. But I think where people are getting kind of stuck is at that practical like not I want to start doing and the um, almost kind of like the starting to understand like how to bring it to life. Right? Like just almost in that like last flow that we just talked about with Esther. Knowing what parts do you specifically AI is all about automation, especially when you talk about generative AI. I liked how one yit said like um, it's like automating with judgment. Which is interesting, right? Because you're like there's all these steps before where you had to be like, you know, if A do B and if B do C and you're like really specific. And we like know how to configure things in a way. But suddenly there's this like new part where you could like but uh, what judgment things am I really willing to let go of? Uh, and actually put in. Right. Like it's an interesting like thought exercise. And um, you know, if, if we're now entering this era where we believe that one day we're gonna have these swarms of like agents where we all, you know, are managers of lots of agents that us all get these jobs done. I think of it like if you brought an intern in, you wouldn't be like, hey, I want you to just go read the Internet and I'm going to give you access to Salesforce, I'm going to get you access to NetSuite and like read everything up and then start doing amazing things and I'll check in on you in three months. Right? Like you'd be like really specific. You'd be like, okay, like your job is that I need you to understand these things and this is our policies and processes that you have to abide by. But then like, here's the specific things I need you to do. And then you would check in on them. And so I think it's this mindset of helping people define what things are you wanting to build agents for. What, what, what are the jobs to be done? And then how do you actually, if you're going to allow this to be done in a more automated way, like getting to that automation and then starting to trust it is kind of an important step. And so um, I think right now a big part of it is, you know, we can use all the words, but everyone's using all the words. And so I think it's the showing the how part that we're ah, really focused on so that we can keep helping people. Like, see, okay, it's not Just the big words, but it's, um, how do I actually do something tomorrow? How do I get something done, like, and is it going to be something that I can rely on and trust?

Matt Dodgson: Perfect. I loved your example, by the way, on, uh, how you're optimizing or using AI, uh, in the sales process and the SDR process. But, um, for B2B marketers out there, what would you say? What's the one thing they should try then in the next quarter to actually move the needle then? Do you think by using AI, it's

Michelle Huff: an easy one if you haven't really tried? I mean, we've been doing a lot around content, um, because marketing creates so much. And I think you can really start, um, you know, we have it not just for individual creation, but to create like, solution briefs and campaign templates and ways to, um, kind of accelerate some of the almost data entry that we have to do all the time to kind of put things down. And that really starts, um, you know, accelerating the getting it to work now part versus the filling out all the forms and the templates and things like that. And I think it's a good use case, um, to start with. Um, and I think the. And then you also get a good feel for what it, where its positives are and where its shortcomings are. Because, you know, especially if it's the content pieces and you have a good feel for what you're trying to say, it's easy then as an expert to be like, oh, like, like it's. It kind of knows it, but not really. And here's when they need to tweak in, and here's kind of the prompting and the things that they need to do. Because I think if you try something that's too far out, you might not have the expertise to know how to better inspect it. Um, and so, you know, I think the content one's a great starting point.

Matt Dodgson: Good stuff, good stuff. So, final question then, broadly and kind of related to us, I guess, in, in terms of recruitment and careers, if you could give one piece of advice then to a B2B tech marketer trying to build their career in 2025, what would it be?

Michelle Huff: Um, you know, I'd say lean in, like, um, to, to all the AI stuff. Um, you know, maybe when I think back to the early days of Internet stuff, uh, you know, there was the time where people didn't know, like websites and what you could build and the different kind of applications and things like that and how it would change marketing, because at that time Right. Like everything that we did in marketing was not so digital and so automated. And I, um, think in my career, um, I think I just used a lot of the extra time to learn. Um, I tried a lot. I experimented. If there's things in your company that they're, they're sponsoring, you know, go learn, use it, like, try. Because I think what happens is in the next, you know, when you're going to your next step, usually in the next questions people always ask is, hey, tell me about a time when. And then they kind of have you fill in the blank. And if you have that opportunity to say, even if it wasn't like this amazing success, but here's what I tried and this is what I learned. And, and these are the things, if I had to do it all over again, I'd do differently. I mean, that experience, you know, is kind of what sets you apart as well. So, you know, I'd say the nice thing is, um, it's so new to everyone, it kind of almost evens the playing field all over again. So then it's up to you to really kind of, um, decide like how much you want to start experimenting and doing and learning on your own. And I think it'll be incredibly helpful as we move through this next phase.

Matt Dodgson: Yeah, I think the curiosity is really key and we're seeing a lot more companies asking these questions at interview stage. Look, how are you using or implementing AI in your day to day work? And people are looking for some answers, not necessarily the, the final version, but you have to be curious, you have to have tried it and you have to have experimented and probably failed and learned.

Michelle Huff: Do it for yourself. Right? Because you can be like, hey, you know, we weren't there as a company yet. Uh, we were a little conservative. But like, here's what I did and I tried in my own personal life, um, because at least like you've got a more hands on kind of approach.

Matt Dodgson: Yeah, good stuff. Well, look, Michelle, it's been fantastic talking to you. It's really interesting to hear about, uh, Alteryx and the position that Alteryx is at and the good work that you're gonna be doing there. And obviously great to hear that brand isn't dead in B2B. And of course, you know, I think your sentence at the end, you know, AI is a leveling field across all levels, isn't it? Because it's so new. So we've all got to get stuck in there regardless of our experience. We're kind of all starting from a base level, aren't we? So, uh, it's really good to hear some of those use cases that you've done as well. So thank you very much for coming on and sharing your experience with us.

Michelle Huff: Thanks for having me.

Matt Dodgson: It's nice to take care of.