How to Make Your Fintech B2B Marketing Less Boring | Jeremiah Glodoveza, SVP Head of Marketing, Nium

When people think of B2B marketing, usually they think of the boring stuff, the white papers, the corporate videos, the super long reports. But great B2B marketing doesn't have to be like that. And as we explore in this episode, there's a lot actually that we can learn from the entertainment industry specifically on how to grab attention quickly. Today's guest, Jeremiah Glove.

SVP Head of Marketing and Communications at Neum says that a lot of us in FinTech marketing often get too bogged down into the details of how compliant our product is or how fast the technology is. Instead, we should focus on the core pain points to grab attention and use that to then tell a story. For example, say you're targeting a payments manager. The first and the 15th of the month are super stressful times for payment managers who need to ensure all payments go out on time, are accurate, and all accounted for.

Instead of focusing your messaging on how great your platform uptime is, you could choose to focus on how your platform helps make those dates of the month a lot less stressful. Anyway, super interesting, and that's just the tip of the iceberg of what we talk about with Jeremiah. Jeremiah himself has extensive experience in marketing. He previously worked in the entertainment industry and then went on to work in large tech companies, most notably early warning, where he helped develop the marketing for Zelle, the payments network in the us.

He's now at Nium, a global leader in real time cross-border payments that supports a hundred currencies across 220 markets, and is currently valued at over $1 billion. So yeah, he really knows FinTech. In this episode, we talk about what FinTech marketing can learn from entertainment. How Nium grow grew to over 220,000 followers on LinkedIn and leveraged it for brand growth.

How the role of the marketer is changing and is more focused on revenue and why that's actually a good thing. Why the best marketers today are those who know how to make the most of technology. I thoroughly enjoyed this chat, and I hope you do too. You are listening to the market like a FinTech podcast.

My name is Ara Minta, MD admin studios and partner at the FinTech Marketing Hub. And with this podcast, my aim is to explore the strategies and tactics that top marketers around the world use to grow FinTech companies. We have discussions about how to navigate compliance, the intricacies of marketing technical products, and targeting hard to reach ideal customers, all of that while living the startup life. I hope you enjoy this episode.

I'd like to start with my first question, which is, um, I know that you have quite a lot of experience in the entertainment industry, uh, so I'd love to hear from you, tell us a bit about what it was like, working in the entertainment industry and what you did, and then also what do you think like FinTech B2B marketing can learn from the film and the entertainment industry? And what have you seen works there? Yeah. Yeah.

No, it's a, it's a good question. So my experience. comes from years back. I was involved at Microsoft in the last, physical media format, war for those old enough to, remember, pre streaming days, you know, before, you actually were able to stream shows and films.

You actually got packaged media typically from a location and I worked on a competitor to what? Was the last format standard, which was Blu-ray. I worked on a product called HDVD, which is, in the Annals of time as, one of the failed experiments in technology. But it allowed me to really work closely with, the studios that were, minting and creating content because in any format, war.

what really matters is the content that's being produced and a close partnership with the entertainment industry in terms of, how they market their films. and what's really interesting and what I learned from entertainment is just, it's about grabbing attention fast, right? Watch any film that, you particularly enjoy, particularly like an action film or even a drama. There's something that gets you hooked immediately, whether it's a scene or it's a piece of the script.

the attention is grabbed fast and then they keep it. There, there are moments where ebbs and flows in the story, but they grab your attention fast and they keep it. And I think that that's something that FinTech marketers typically struggle with, right? Like, we get so mired in the speeds and the feeds or the legal leads associated with the regulation that we have to comply with, that we forget that at the end of the day, we've gotta create these emotional connections.

Tell stories that are built on tension and arcs and all those things that you learn, not even in entertainment, but in basic, writing classes when you're in school. So I do think that, B2B marketing, particularly in FinTech, we've forgotten and lost some of our way. and instead of, talking about the characters or talking about, the customers in this regard, we talk about the technology and we don't ever step out of the impact that that technology has on our customer bases. Yeah.

So the crux of that is really like hooking people and telling stories. And I was gonna get to storytelling later, but I think we could talk about it now, which is, yes, storytelling is more important now than ever. what would you say is a good example of that? 'cause I always find that.

You know, storytelling is important, but it's hard to kind of see that in practice. Like, I don't know if you have an example of maybe a a B2B company. It doesn't have to be FinTech that does storytelling quite well. Like, what, what does that mean in marketing?

I think that, the example I'm thinking about is, maybe less B2B, but, they used a consumer approach, in a B2B setting. So, for example, the company was, Zelle. Which is the payments network, here in the United States. a company that I had the privilege of working for prior to my role here at Nium.

And what they really, sought to achieve was, more awareness around, fraud and scams. and they wanted to tell in a relatable way the impact of falling victim to a fraud or scam. scheme. and so what they did, on a podcast similar to this, they took, the format of a true crime, podcast, basically, right?

and if you think of any of the Great True Crime podcast, whether it be Serial Or otherwise, you really get invested in the characters, right? and they looked at, not murders, but a financial crime, right? Like that was perpetrated on, an individual, whether it be, a elder abuse scam or. you know, someone being, taken in a Ponzi scheme of some sort, but they really took a deep dive into some of these financial crimes.

They introduced the characters, they showed the criminals and their motivations. They talked about the victims and, what was going on in their heads. In a fun and entertaining way. I thought that that was a great example of, storytelling, applied in our space that, you typically don't see.

so just to clarify, is that, so they set up a podcast and were these stories real or are they fictional? No, They were real. stories. They were real stories.

So the stories featured interviews. And, I listened to some episodes about, you know, a puppy scam. Right? So they went into, the story about the daughter and why she wanted, the puppy that she always wanted, and the lengths that the parents were taking to try to find, a legitimate breeder and then their explorations online as they found, different sources and then the interactions between the scammer and the target and what those look like and how it looked legitimate in terms of the conversation.

So, much like these true crime podcasts do on, different types of crimes, they really took that financial crime angle and did, some amazing storytelling, around it. Yeah. And so that, that's really cool. So were they doing that to raise awareness of fraud amongst like just regular consumers like you and I or, yeah.

Yeah. I, and because it's a topic that, banks and credit unions issue tons of warnings about, Yeah. about scams and fraud and tips and tricks for not falling victim to it. But it doesn't hit home for many people until they A, either hear that it's impacted a family member, or they read or Mm.

to a real life story about somebody potentially losing their life savings. Yeah, it becomes more tangible. So if, if, say we've got a head of marketing listening to this and they work at a payment company and they're like, or maybe, you know, I'm thinking maybe not even a payment company could be like a identity verification company. and they wanted to do a podcast like this.

'cause this could be a good, I mean, I don't know, you're targeting. what compliance professionals probably, and I know you've said on another piece of content, another podcast you've been on, it's it's about making the sure that your ICP is, the hero. You wanna make them the hero. So in this hypothetical example, if you worked for an identity verification company, what, how could you kind of do a podcast?

Maybe that's a similar kind of story. I know I'm putting you on the spot, Yeah. if you're at a identity verification company, say, right. I think these podcasts that do a good job tell stories from, the different aspects.

a different perspective, sorry. Right. Where, it could be the decision maker, that ultimately is, evaluating sort of the risk signals. Or it could be the data scientist who is telling the story about, okay, here's what we're looking at and, here's how we're keeping you safe.

Right. It could be ultimately the end user who has to then make a risk-based decision, or kind of reading those data sets. But my point in, the example on the podcast side and on this identity verification side is that, we typically use, single spokespeople to explain sort of a case, right? Like if you, even if you watch some of the typical case studies, it's, one person in the department, and Nium is guilty of this too, speaking about their experience with, a product what I would be suggesting here is when you start to think about these case studies, to think about them, incorporating more than one perspective from the department, Uh, end user perspective, and others so that, you round out and have sort of some of this creative tension like.

You know, we've talked about like, how do you make the target or the customer, the hero. Right. And the example that I was thinking about going into, it's not for a podcast, but was, you know, we don't really surface what the day-to-day job is like for the people that are using our products. Right.

Like, you know, what Nium is doing, is enabling, you know. Who are at a payroll company ensure that, employees and contractors around the world get paid on time on the first or the 15th. Right, right. And you know, the story I was thinking about was like, you tend to think about, The first and the 15th as being really exciting times from an employee perspective.

I'm gonna get paid today. that's super exciting, but when you take it from the other perspective of the person sending the payment, Like that can be some of the most stressful, days, in the month, right? Like if there's a failure, it's on you and if that payment fails, then the, the impact on, that employee or that contractor and the ripple effects of not being able to get that paycheck, are, are far reaching. Right?

And we don't necessarily kind of highlight, you know, that, that, That part of the story, right? We talk about the mission critical nature of payments, but we don't necessarily talk about, okay, what does exactly, does that mean? What goes through that person's head as they're about to, hit send and then who's enabling them? To live more stress free.

Oh, that's us as the, as the, as the partner. Right? So I think that there's room there, even in sort of the, rigidity of, B2B marketing to actually use similar tactics, but just explore different, applications, within the tactics that we use in the day to day. Yeah, I really love that example.

so if we continue on that example, the head of payments who's very stressed on the first and the 15th, how would you then put that in your marketing? Like at new, like how would you run a campaign where the campaign says something like, don't be stressed on those two days? Something like that. how does that translate into marketing yeah.

I think for us, you know, obviously static forms like copy and in, email nurture campaigns, et cetera. but I've been talking to our team about and some of these things will come to light over the course of the next few weeks, is to diversify the content types that we tend to use, right? Like, we are taking more cues from the consumer side, right? Hmm.

um, shorter form video, um, uh, you know, quote cards, slideshow, carousels. and then even, longer form pieces that we're actually able to cut up, particularly in video. and so when, I'm instructing sort of my team to do these case study interviews with various stakeholders at a company. We're asking these, more, emotional questions, versus not just like, oh.

What was the return on investment on the service we're providing? how many hours did you save, blah, blah, blah. I mean, that will come out in the story, but like, how did you solve this problem Without us, How did you feel? were you nervous?

what helped alleviate some of that stress? we asked some of those questions to try to get the customer more comfortable talking about their experience in their own words and how it, plays out. Yeah. And I think, if we now follow on to talking about how Noom does a good job of standing out, I think one good example of storytelling is your LinkedIn, your company LinkedIn, you went from, I heard this from another podcast that you were on.

You went from 10,000 to a hundred thousand followers in like 18 months and then now you're at over 220,000, which is amazing. what do you think contributed to that growth? And I'm also curious, 'cause everyone always says personal LinkedIn has better engagement. But I'm curious, what have you seen is the impact of having one of the biggest, FinTech LinkedIn it's one of the biggest Thank you.

And, we're particularly proud of it, right? and I think that a couple of things, have led to that sizable growth right? over time. It did not happen overnight.

Let's be clear. First, I would say it was content, from a content perspective, what I mean by that was a variety of content pieces distributed on a fairly aggressive cadence, right? So valuable content delivered frequently, and with value, measured by the level of engagement that we were driving, whether it be, shares, likes, or, downloads. so that was sort of core.

I wanted to make sure that, this wasn't just, Not just announcements, right? even though that is part of what we do, and that's certainly, but then the second piece would be amplification, right? So, we really encourage our, colleagues to participate in the conversation, right? and to be an active participant in the marketing of their company.

and so we encourage them to share the content to their networks. and so we created this network effect, which, every brand aspires to, right? So where it is now almost routine that front facing, client teams are sharing content on a regular basis. Then I think that we also finally had the benefit of, an executive team with high following, that, also, believes in the power of, LinkedIn and would be part of that amplification.

process, but again, really important that we started foundationally with producing great, valuable content, on the platform Yeah. And, what kind of benefits have you seen from it? do you feel like it really helps with recruitment, for example, or what do you for sure. the most?

and I think that, I would say. Next to, sort of organic search, most of our, inbound traffic to the website comes from social media. So, when we talk about social media, LinkedIn, and to some degree X are, the channels that we participate in, but it's LinkedIn primarily. I would say that that's been, Benefit.

And then I think there's the, the, the benefit also of just a general awareness, right? Like, anecdotally we hear when we go to events that yes, we know you and you know, how do you know us? it's through LinkedIn 'cause our content has, surfaced through the algorithm to some of the more important decision makers around the world. Wow, that's amazing.

would you mind sharing a bit, what is your, setup? Do you have like a team internally that who are dedicated only to social or because, I mean, it's a lot of, you're creating carousels, you're creating high quality content. Like how do you do it? yeah, I'm afraid to kind of share the secret sauce, but like people think that behind the scenes at Nium, there are large Mm.

And I would tell you that my marketing team is probably less than 10 to cover, a global entity, you know, with annual revenue, over a hundred million dollars, right? Like this is a fraction of the size of most organizations. but we do a good job of, creating great, templates. And so when we do invest in a content piece, we're able to ensure that we get more than one use out of that content piece.

So there's a lot of, adaptive reuse. of our content pieces I, I'm proud to say I have a, a very talented, dedicated, internal team as well as, a small supporting cast of agencies that help us produce great stuff. Yeah. Tiny but mighty for sure.

so what are a few other things that Noom does that you would say helps you stand out as a brand and not be like the boring payment companies? I know you've sponsored Cricket, and, you also, maybe we can talk about this later, but you've separated two brands, so I'd be curious to learn a bit more about that. But yeah, let's focus on the. standing out and not being the boring payment company.

Yeah, let's talk a little, I'll talk about maybe events and then I'll talk about sponsorships in a second, right. I think events is one way that I think we've stood out, right? And, you know, part of my philosophy here comes from, my background in, consumer marketing, particularly in the telco mm-hmm. So early on in my career.

I had this realization where I was looking at the advertising from Verizon and at the time, sprint and T-Mobile and at t the biggest carriers in the, in the country. we were sitting around in a marketing meeting with all of the ads for these companies laid out, and they all looked the same. Like, smiling, youngish, individuals looking at their phones, in delight Yeah, exactly. the phone.

Right. and this was pre selfie, right? So they were just enamored with the quality of the device, I guess. we used to call it shiny happy people, right?

like the REM reference, right? What I swore, was that even industries that I would work in, that looked, on the surface the same, that I would do my best to stand out, Hmm. it was in the look and feel, or the experiences. And my background is primarily on the experience side.

Like I did some pretty exciting things, at Microsoft with, experiential marketing. And so with Niem, we took that approach with, um, events. For example, like everybody shows up at Money 2020, which is sort of the seminal event in FinTech, as you guys know, especially the event in Vegas. everybody does a happy hour.

Everybody does a dinner, but nobody really paid attention to the experience within the event. Hmm. and how do you deliver content that's interesting, engaging and, at the end of the day, fun that you would wanna step away from, the seafood platter at, a JP Morgan event and go, attend. So, 20, 20, a couple of years ago we did, a comedy night.

Right. And, not just your standard comedy night. we found, a few founders that were willing to take a risk and, we had them roasted by a comedian, right? And, had them just all vulnerable on stage, like talking about their stories, which are important lessons, et cetera.

But in the context of, uh, you know, And just the amount of laughter from that session was just amazing. And we followed that up with, a well-known, Netflix comedian. and so it's delivering, and we started to brand these experiences, these evening experiences, mem at night, right? Like, it was really an attempt to, share with the FinTech community.

Like after you've had a long day, the last thing you wanna do is sit around and watch a presentation and get the hard sell, right? Like, so how can you engage, in a networking environment? you know, discuss topics at your leisure and be entertained in a fun and exciting way. And so we've kind of taken that neem at night concept and, delivered it in markets, around the world to, a ton of success.

So that would be one way that we've kind of been working on standing out. The other way that, you asked about was just sponsorship in general, right? I, I'm not going to, claim that we're the first to, explore sponsorship as a tool. Many brands do.

But we were one of the first kind of FinTech brands to look at cricket as Mm. as a sponsorship vehicle, right? Like, little known fact that behind, football, cricket is the most, watched and played, sport in the world, Wow. right.

you know, particularly due to, the popularity of the game in countries like India and Pakistan. but you know, sponsorship was more than just placing a logo, on signage boards and, it being about, broadcast eyeballs. although certainly that was part of it, it was about the experiences that we could deliver in partnership with, with the game that tied back to our kind of, corporate and, brand values. So, for example, we really stand for innovation and, championing, the FinTech community, and particularly the payments community.

So we sponsored a hackathon, the first ever for, the international cricket community. and from that, hackathon came a bunch of viable, technology ideas that would advance the game in areas of ai, in areas of virtual reality, et cetera, that are actually being, commercialized, today. so it was really about how do we leverage the game, as a brand awareness vehicle, but also as a tool to really highlight, some of our, brand and corporate values. Yeah, and I've also, heard from other people that it's actually smarter to go sponsor events where there's not tons of payment companies.

So like, not another money 2020 and instead sponsor, where there might still be, heads of payments who like to go to cricket matches. but there's no other payment company, so you're gonna stand out and it'll hopefully be cheaper than money 2020, Or the ROI will be maybe greater. Yeah. And it's a captive audience too, right?

Like you would be surprised how many bankers and heads of payments and, vendors are big fans of the game, right? and and cricket is one of those things where you can get really immersed, in the sport, right? Like you can get onto the field with some of these experiences. You don't necessarily get that type of treatment.

I would say from a, you know, an F1, let's say as, as an example, right? As different type of sport. Yeah, no, really good point. I'd like to shift gears to talk a bit more about branding.

So, you mentioned in another interview that you were on another podcast that, there's an interesting kind of, change where marketers have shifted from just taking care of the brand to taking care of both brand and revenue. And I think, I mean, we've all seen this, everything is becoming more. Financially oriented, the CFOs are more in charge, which means that, yeah, marketers are being held accountable for revenue. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on, you know, what does that mean for marketers?

Is that a good thing? What do you think? And do you think, where's it gonna go from here? Is it just gonna become more pronounced?

Or do you think things will change with ai? What are your thoughts Okay, so. A hundred percent a good thing. Okay.

because I come from the days where, you know, marketing had this perception that it was just the make things pretty function, Yeah. Like, which was unfortunate given the level of talent and ability, in the field, right? And, I had come from a background in communications and in product. so that stigma always offended me, right?

Like, in terms of, hey, you know, I, sure I can make a PowerPoint, amazing, or I can, make a great ad, but I too have the same business degree that, Most of the C-suite hold, that my talents are probably being underutilized, right? So, absolutely. I think that marketing can be a revenue engine if the leadership team and the board, give it the room to run. Right?

and I think like the best CMOs today actually think like CROs, Hmm. Report into a CRO or they've, been one previously. because CROs, they don't care about impressions. they care about pipeline and conversion rates, right?

And ultimately deals one and attri and whether or not the work that you, Were doing actually had a contribution, to some of those wins, right? They think about competitors and, competitive differentiation So I do think that this move towards more of a quantitative approach to marketing is a good thing, right? Because then you combine the science side of it with the art side, which we've always been great at, and you can really start to drive, a focus, on more than just acquisition, but you can start to look at things like expansion, retention, loyalty, right?

Like, and so this line between sales and marketing, I think is blurring, significantly in, in fact, even my KPIs are shared. the sales team, right? Like it isn't a handoff anymore where I can say, oh, well, you know, 20 to 25% of inbound leads are being shipped over. I can kind of wash my hands and be done at the end of the day.

Like, you know, the ROI of the marketing program is based on revenue generated. and so I really need to partner closely with the sales team to convert and actually get, these clients transacting, so that we can increase, revenue accordingly. Yeah, I think I agree and it's also very rewarding to be able to go to work every day and see the hard impact that you're making with numbers you can see and you know, it's because of the work that you're doing. And this is why my agency specializes in the lead gen side of things because we can prove that it's working and also it's more exciting.

It's like, wow, look, we're helping grow this company. it is a balance as well as you said, because they, you also need to give marketing the room. It's not like, you're not gonna get leads immediately. It's gonna take a while.

And this is the balance that needs to be Yeah, and I think previously the, the functions were speaking different languages, right? Like, and the level of marketing jargon, which, you know, I see some of my team speaking at a sales kickoff, right? Like, it's not what the business cares about, right? Like, nobody cares about, you know, how many form completes.

they wanna know, okay, who, and ultimately like, are they gonna buy my stuff? Right? And, And so some of those next level insights, need to be thought through and we need to start speaking common vernacular, right? Which, is the language of numbers.

and so I do, particularly when I'm hiring folks, I tend to gravitate towards those that have, a business mindset. because they're kind of well versed in, Speaking to not only the tactics that they're driving, but also the quantifiable impacts. Yeah. Well, this was the next question I was gonna ask you.

You know, say we've got a marketing manager who's listening to this and they're aspiring to be A-A-C-M-O or a senior marketer, you know, what do you think are the skills that they have to build in order to be able to speak that language, to be more like the CCRO or to be able to communicate better with the sales team and the CRO? What, what are the skills that they should be focusing I think that, the soft skill that they should, develop is empathy. Hmm. and what I mean by that is, how do you develop that, right?

Like I think it's really spending a lot of time with stakeholders outside of the marketing function, right? Like, how many marketers truly spend time with customers, Yeah. Or prospects Have you pitched. In front of them, have you actually listened to what they care about?

Similarly, like with the sales function, you know, have you shadowed a salesperson and what they go through, right? Like how do they prep for calls? How do they follow up? what triggers, do they pay attention to?

so, I think foundationally as a marketer, if you start there, you know, the other skills around, how to read a p and l statement and a balance sheet, all of that, that's useful to some degree. But I think that the most useful thing is, and the value that you can bring as a marketer or you're supposed to bring as a marketer, is do you understand, the market, and the customer, right? And, I do think that empathy is one of those skills that needs to be developed and strong listening skills are a big part of that.

I really like the idea of shadowing for like, maybe a few months or something. Each, each department, someone in each department, and then you'd understand a lot better. Definitely. Sales would probably, you'd learn so much, just account management would be another Mm.

and then also the product team, right? Because then you can start with, once you get, pretty advanced in your skillset, you can. share the inputs that you're hearing from customers and sales back to the product team. And then, it's a bi-directional, conversation, and exchange of value.

but I really, urge marketers to spend a ton of time with all of these key functions outside of their own, to round out their experience. On another podcast I heard you saying that the difference between a good and a bad marketer is how they harness technology. so the one that is on everyone's mind at the moment is obviously ai. I would love to hear what are some examples of how, maybe a good marketer who wants to be a great marketer can use ai, but it could be any technology really to become that great marketer.

what do you mean by that and what are some examples of it? Yeah, I mean, so I think good marketers, can adopt technology, right? Like I. use, chat, GPT and write a basic prompt, right?

Like, but great market is figure out how to take technology and, in a way that creates leverage, whether it's, and enables them to do something that they could not do, without said technology, right? In the case of ai, Whether it's automation or hyper-personalization or some sort of predictive analytical behavior, that's where the difference is, so let's use AI as an example in terms of, you know, how can marketers use ai. To be better at their jobs. Right?

Like, and in prepping for this, kind of wrote down, three things, right? AI is gonna help you, do things faster. So speed, Mm-hmm. AI can write, it can design, it can analyze faster than any human right.

The quality of which we can, debate you and I are, very much fans of the written word and we can, debate the quality. But great marketers know what to feed AI engines so that they can get faster, speed, Like, prompts, high quality inputs, et cetera. Right? The second thing that AI can help with, is scale, my team was working on nurture track emails, for example, Like, we were able to write prompts that, had us produce, a five email nurture based on, key verticals that, we're pursuing, right?

even though those first drafts weren't perfect, they were developed in seconds versus a first draft that would've taken, weeks. so, and then you can then spend the time, scaling the program in terms of hyper-personalization. You can write a prompt that's, more directed and you can even use tools, that look at, signals in the public sphere to, map a specific email to the signals that you're seeing. For example, I see from the hires that you're making in, your payments organization that you're looking to expand.

Your, business relationships in the Philippines, right? making that level of connections, manually just isn't possible, right? scale I think is, and personalization is the other thing, smarts would be the other one, right? I think it helps marketers be more strategic.

I do think that, Some of the latest, findings coming out of deep research is, if I worked at a consultancy, I'd be worried, it helps us be more strategic, right? on a smaller scale, we can start to look at, how we use AI to build reports. How do we use AI to spot trends, et cetera. But what AI I don't think will replace is the fourth s, which is style, Hmm.

is that, many of us as marketers have some of the best intuition when it comes to what looks and sounds good and human and will make that deep emotional connection. Right. So I think that that's where you can, there's room in a AI world for us as marketers to still, add value, and add some style to the substance that we know that AI will help us, achieve with speed, scale, and, smarts. Yeah.

What a comprehensive answer. Thank you. I very much agree and I like what you just said there that, it's about style and I think you've said this as well, where you'll only be able to get that if you're really well connected. To who you're targeting the customer.

because that, I don't see how ai, like, yeah, you can feed the ai, your sales transcripts and you can feed it like lots of the interactions you're having with customers. But that deep human understanding what that human, your ideal customer persona, that as a person, what their fears are. Only another human I feel. Well, so far only another human can really understand that.

And like what you said about the first and the 15th of the month being really stressful, could an AI understand that? and really, I mean, they could create the copy for it, but the input will still have to come from that other person, the marketer, understanding that that head of payments is really stressed out on the first and 15th. So it's about understanding those triggers and those worries. Yeah, it's hard for an AI to understand what the concept of stress is yeah.

And that's where I think storytelling is, is the way to, to do that. Like stress for me as a payment manager is I can't sleep the night before. because I'm thinking about whether or not the payment's going to go through. Right.

And then you could describe that in human terms, right? Like, instead of getting up at my regular, you know, 7:00 AM I'm getting up at 4:00 AM nervously staring at this screen, wondering if the payment is going to go through. I don't do that anymore because, I have the peace of mind that the payment will go through because of the vendor that I've, I've chosen and here's why, why they enabled, me to sleep better at night. Right.

Like, you know, AI's not going to deliver that, emotive prose yet, right? Not yet anyway. And I think it's good news for those of us who got into marketing because we're obsessed with kind of psychology and, what gets me excited is understanding what made someone click that and not another thing. What made someone pick that vendor over another.

And that's kind of consumer psychology or bio-psychology I know we're close to time, so I just wanted to end on one last question, which is, you did a LinkedIn post recently about, a new habit that you've been building where at the end of every week you share an update with everyone, and I thought it was really cool. So I'd love it if you could share what that new habit is and how have you been finding it? Is it useful? Has it helped with alignment?

Yeah, yeah. we're recording this on a Friday, so I have to actually produce this update that I've been, talking about. But like, I call it the four P update, which, Not intentionally modeled after, you know, the four Ps in, marketing. But, I really wanted, and maybe to talk about the genesis of it.

Like it, I feel that, we don't do a good job of marketing ourselves. Mm. and, it's maybe the modesty or just the service oriented, mindset that we have that we typically don't, keep our peers, informed about the values that we're bringing, each week, I would say, right? Like, because there's so much output.

And I was telling people that my function is. the only one that has probably a day-to-day public record of output because of the prolific nature of what we publish on, platforms like LinkedIn. So I, this four p update, the first p stands for, projects I've summarized, the two to three, achievements for the week in terms of completed, outcomes. the second P would be progress.

longer term, initiatives that we made progress on, and what some of those key milestones were. the third P is performance. This is where, the quantitative side of, marketing comes through, not only how many leads, but sort of more the full funnel metrics and how we're ultimately converting into, opportunities and wins. and the fourth one is, around people.

I spent time, talking about the team, how they're feeling, what's top of mind for them, et cetera. So, nearly eight weeks into the year, still on top of it, and it's being read, which I think I get questions on, line items within the report. So, you know, I found it a good organizing construct to. track the work that's being done on the team, but then also market that activity internally, to stakeholders, across the board.

So just to clarify, you're sending this to the whole company, not just the marketing Yeah, I send it to, an executive leadership team made up of cross-functional, folks. I send it to this, select group of, individuals also, because I'm just mindful about not spamming, the entire organization. but I do publish a summary quarterly of the achievements of the team to the, broader company audience. And that's working out pretty well.

Yeah. I love that because I think, you know, any marketers listening to this who struggle with what you just said, like showcasing what they're doing and the value of it. This is a good framework potentially for doing that. So thank you for sharing that.

And it's a good framework too for I think, one-on-ones, right? Like that you have either with your team or you know, your, your manager, right? 'cause I also found like, one-on-ones tend to meander on different topics without structure. So this is a forcing function for, documenting, a productive one-on-one conversation.

Yeah. Makes Thank you for listening. You can find show notes and information about guests@fintechmarketinghub.com slash podcast.

And finally, huge thanks to orama TV for producing this podcast. We look forward to having you on our next episode. sense. Amazing.

Well, thank you so much, Jeremiah, for coming on. This was really interesting. I know there's so many more things that we could have talked about, but, let, let's edit it at that. thanks again for coming on and, yeah, hopefully see you at Money 2020 Vegas.

Always love talking to you. Thanks so much. Thank you for listening. You can find show notes and information about guests at fintechmarketinghub.

com forward slash podcast. And finally, huge thanks to Orama. tv for producing this podcast. We look forward to having you on our next episode.