How to Run Better Meetings That Actually Lead Somewhere - Episode 10

Episode 10 transcript – How to run better meetings that actually lead somewhere This transcript has been created by AI so there may be errors. Hello there, and welcome to today's episode where I want to talk to you about something that takes up a huge amount of leadership time. But often does not get enough of our leadership attention. I'm talking about meetings. Now, I know that you might sound, think that this sounds like this is not the most exciting leadership topic for a podcast. But stay with me, because meetings are significantly important for managers and for leaders, because it is where so much of your leadership culture is practised. And where your leadership style and personality are viewed. Meetings are where people learn whether their voices matter. They are where decisions are either made clearly or left hanging in the air. There where challenge is either welcomed or shut down. And the aware accountability is either strengthened or avoided. And they are where people either leave with clarity, or they walk away thinking. Well, that was another waste of my time. Most of us have been in meetings where we go round the houses with the same point again and again. We listen to the same person whinging or moaning or pontificating again and again, taking up all of the space. And where people might completely ignore the elephant in the room. Because no one wants to talk about a delicate subject. Or where there's, you know, a sense of discussion that something's happened but nothing has been decided upon. to what's happening next. And when that happens, repeatedly, it's such a waste of our valued commodity time. It also affects her energy. It affects the levels of trust and respect within the team. We notice when decisions aren't being made. People then don't take accountability or ownership for work because they're not sure if it's theirs to own. And often when there's one person doing all the talking, or indeed, if the leader is doing all the talking, then people don't feel valued enough to contribute. So, this episode is not really about creating. Perfect agendas or becoming, you know, more formal in meetings for the sake of it. But it's about bringing formality a meeting to a meeting that's going to help make your meeting more useful and productive for everybody. We're going to make sure that you know who the right people are to have in the room at that meeting, whether that be in person or virtual. We are going to learn how to create space. To hear everyone's voice. And to consider different ways of contributing, because actually speaking aloud and out in front of everybody doesn't work for everyone. And we're going to make sure that we make clear decisions about what's happening next. in each meeting. And You know, we also need to touch on Stopping meetings becoming places where good thinking gets lost in vague conversation because we all know what it's like. When we all go off paste and start talking about something else and then we lose the point of the meeting. And to help you with all of this, I've also created a simple resource to go alongside this episode called The Meeting Reset template. And it's designed to help you look at one meeting and ask whether it has the right purpose, the right people. The right contribution routes and the right follow through. And I'll see more about that at the end. So, folks, let's get started. So. And then try spoke about how meetings are where your leadership is most evident. It's where your leadership culture is created. It's where your leadership becomes visible, or perhaps your lack of leadership becomes visible. Chairing a meeting is so important, being able to do that well is incredibly important. Because it helps people know whether they are able to speak honestly. It helps people know whether challenge is welcomed. Because we all like to have our opinion and that doesn't necessarily agree with the speakers, so we need to know if we're able to do that or. It's where we learn whether we're shut down or not. Meetings also show whether quieter voices are invited in and whether different communication styles are supported. And they are where they show where the decisions are clear or not. Let's face it. They also show us whether our time, our energy and our attention are respected and valued. Because actually a good meeting's not about just a group of people talking, getting together, having a well-being checkup. They help people do useful work together. And that might mean making a decision, a collaborative decision. It might mean understanding a problem together and talking about what that means for your organisation. It might mean that you are surfacing a risk in discussing the impact of that for yourselves and for your clientele. It might mean agreeing next steps in a project or discussing people's suggestions and ideas and different perspectives before a final decision is made. But in a meeting, something needs to move. There's no point having a meeting if there are nothing is moving. If nobody's clearer at the end of it, if no actions agreed. Because if not, then there's no point in having a meeting at all, you're having a coffee and catch up instead. So, I would like you to consider your next meeting and starting with the purpose. The 1st question to ask before any meeting is, what is this meeting for? Not, what are we talking about? Because there's a subtle difference there. What are we talking about gives you a topic. What is the meeting for? Gives you a purpose. For example. Team workload is a topic. But the purpose might be to understand where pressure is building, agree what needs to be prioritised, redistribute work. Decide what stops or for you as a leader, a key part of your role is to identify where more support is needed. Each of these would need a different conversation. The same applies to project meeting. Are you updating people, asking for input? Making a decision, solving a problem? Agreeing next steps, different meetings require different outcomes. And if you're not clear about the outcome or the purpose of the meeting, other people will not be clear either. And that is always the place where meetings often start to unravel. Because The 10 days to the meeting will arrive with different assumptions, different preparation, different expectations. Some might think they're there for an update, some might not know that they're there to contribute. Some might think that they're there to battle through to make a difficult decision. Some might think a decision's being made already and it's being shared. Some might think that they're there to approve something. So, people turn up differently. And what you want is people to turn up on the same page. Ready. Now, it may be that you've got different types of meetings to different types of things within the agenda to cover, but being very clear about the purpose of your meeting or the purpose of each aspect of your meeting is important. So, before the meeting, ask yourself, what is this meeting for? Who do we need? What do we need to leave with? So, what are you wanting to achieve by the end of it? And that's an outcome that is really important that you have at the meeting? Because it's what's going to bring you back? To the gender when you straight off the gender? We're here because of X. We need to make a decision about why let's come back to that conversation. Secondly, I really want you to think about. Is the meeting actually needed? If you're just sharing an uh, an update, could you do that through a different system that you might have? Or uh, um, round dropping of emails? Or is it about sharing a decision that's already been made by the powers above you? That could be done by anaemia and unless, of course, there's some very delicate, impactful information about people's jobs within that? That's not to be done by email. Um, but actually consider is a meeting needed because there is nothing worse than trotting along to meeting. To sit for an hour. To not have been asked your opinion, to not feel that you should be contributing because you're being, you know, people are being shut down when they do, for no reason at all, one hour of your, your time and your company's time completely wasted. So, is the meeting actually needed? And adding onto what I've just commented about, do you, is it needed? Who genuinely needs to be there? Don't have people attend your meeting, who either are not the decision makers at the time or for the decisions you need made. Or who have no information to share to make better decisions or to help move the team forward. Everyone who attends a meeting needs to add value to that meeting. And that's really important. Make sure you have the right people there. And be clear on what kind of contribution you're asking for. People need to know whether they're being informed or consulted or being asked to decide or asked to take something forward. That's really, really important and also you want the people attending. If they are to contribute to the meeting, if they are to deliver something or they are to bring their opinion. When you set the meeting up, make sure you inform them of that so that they're not caught off guard, so that they bring the right information with them, and so that they contribute in a really effective and articulate way. Now having the right people at table is key, okay? Because. It's not just about seniority. And. The reason I say that is, I, used to have in one of my previous rules. One of the best key people in the organisation. Attend meetings with me and she was not. In the senior. Oshulance of the business. Okay, she had an admin role. But she was key. Because she had insight, she had context. across the whole of the organisation over the length of the time that she had worked there. She had had responsibility for just different aspects of the role in her and had been work and she knew what happened when decisions were made in different departments and the impact that that would have. So, knowing the people that are coming to your meeting and knowing what they can bring is amazing. You know, having someone that might say, well, that might solve this problem, this immediate issue, but it's going to create pressure in this department. Because of the knock-on effect of our decision. Or it might be before we agree that we need to think about the impact on the client, because my experience is X, Y, and Z. It's really important for people at the table to have various perspectives and knowledge about different areas in your business or different areas where your decisions being made might impact. And that doesn't necessarily need to be a senior person. It needs to be somebody who understands the systems, someone who understands the history, somebody who understands the nuances between different departments and how their work connects. Understanding the people within the team, but also your clients. When you bring people who are outward facing, who are speaking regularly with your clients and hearing from them, firsthand, their experiences. Those people at your table are hugely important because they can then reflect back to you. The things that you need to be mindful of whilst making decisions in your meetings. So, if you have those key people, bring them in to the meetings where they can contribute and add value. Another thing is sometimes not all your people have to be at the meeting for the whole meeting. They might just pop in for one part of the agenda. Contribute, and then you thank them and then they go off and do their work for the day. And actually that's a gift for them as well because they're not sitting through a meeting where they don't need to be part of. There is a balance. You're not inviting people just to ask, just in case, you know, oh, we'll invite Jenny from that from the IT team just in case we need her. No, you're wasting her time. But you definitely want to have Tom from the finance department because he's the one that's got to make a decision round about this. So, make sure you've got right people at the right time. What I want to outline to you here is as the leader. This is a leadership judgement. You're being intentional and deliberate about this. And the more intentional you are, the more people will respect you and communicate it. Tell your people. I'm doing this differently. I'm only bringing those people in today because you're the ones that are going to make a difference to the decisions in this specific meeting. We're not excluding people deliberately, and being intentional because I want you to be productive in your other work, and I'm giving you priority to your other tasks that need to be done. It is a leadership judgement. And one that shows that you are respecting the work of your team. Now one of the big things that are going to reflect back at you. As a leader, is how you create the conditions for honest contribution. Better meetings really depend on how people are expected to contribute. Now we often assume people know how to turn up well in meetings and that is not always the case. We assume they know how to challenge constructively. We assume they know how to disagree without making it personal. And we assume people know how to receive feedback without becoming defensive. But these are actually skills to be learned. And the leader. You have the responsibility to create the conditions where those skills can be used. This is where psychological safety matters. Psychological safety does not mean that everyone is protected from discomfort, far from it. Meetings can often and regularly become uncomfortable. And psychological safety does not mean avoiding challenge. It actually means that we've created a culture of safety and trust and respect where people can speak. Honestly. They can raise concerns. They can admit when they are not sure without feeling like they're feeling. They can offer and contribute ideas that might be completely out of the box, that are valued and appreciated. And they can give constructive feedback. It's where you can give constructive feedback, brother. Without fear of being punished. Of being humiliated or silenced or quietly labelled as being that difficult one in meetings. You as the leader set that tone. And actually psychological safety has to be established and in place for good meetings to happen. You haven't done that, and you don't know how to go about it, then we can, we'll do another podcast on psychological safety, because it is the foundation stone, to leading a team, and for your team to follow you happily. You set the tone. And you set the tone because you show how you respond when someone disagrees with you. And that's not you telling them off for being um disrespectful or rude. It's about being curious and welcoming in. People don't want to raise a risk without it being treated as negative. They want it to be valued and appreciated that you have done the right thing for your organisation. You set it in whether feedback is used for learning for development, for creativity and for growth. Or whether people experience feedback. As a criticism or as a blame and get very defensive and take feedback personally. I love the book, no rules, rules, by read Hastings and Erin Meyer, who talk about Netflix's culture of candour and feedback. Now, I suggest. You, Get yourself a copy of this or listen to it on an e-book because it is really quite incredible the work that Netflix have done. And I'm not suggesting for a minute that you try to copy what they've done, because context matters. But there is a useful principle within that book, that if someone sees something important, and withholds it, The organisation loses the chance to learn. So the aim is not to be brutally honest. It is constructive honesty in service of the work. Now let that land with you as a leader. You want people to give constructive honesty in service of the work. And that means constructive feedback to you. Constructive feedback to the decisions being made. And constructive feedback to each other about their suggestions about the work that they're doing, all done. Honestly. Kindly with radical candour. In service of the work. And I suggest if you don't know what I'm talking about there, that you do some more reading about radical panda and psychological safety. As a leader and as a team member attending the meetings. You want to be able to say. Can I offer a different perspective? And for that offer to be accepted and encouraged and valued. You don't need to agree with it, but you certainly do need to listen to it and welcome it. Or it might be I can see the intention. But I'm concerned about the impact with X or with Y. And then you ask as a leader running the meeting, or tell me more. I hadn't really considered that. What do you mean? You might also someone might sing your team or you might say to someone, what might this mean for the client? So you're being curious to find out more. Ryan letting your guard come down and being defensive about somebody interjecting with some constructive feedback or some follow-up questions. Yes, you're working very hard. And yes, you have the best intentions. You know, with the work that you're doing. But sometimes when we're blinkered in our work, we need other people to chip in and to offer suggestions and thoughts and insight. And this is the time to do it, in your meetings, when you're together, when you're sharing information. There's an opportunity for people to offer constructive feedback. Honestly, in service of the work. And most importantly here, if you take anything away from this podcast. You as the leader, have to model those type of questions and those type of responses. If you are the one that behaves like a spoilt child who's been told off because somebody's disagreed with them, then you are going to shut down every member's contribution going forward. However, if you respond with curiosity. With um, delight at somebody in interjecting with their thought and opinion. If you welcome it and value it and ask the team for more, then you are really going to create an atmosphere. Culture of psychological safety where people are encouraged to offer more contribution and more honesty and service both the work. So go out and model what we're talking about. And I think it's really important. as leaders that you make different routes. For contribution. It's always really important to recognise that people do not all contribute in the same way. Some people think out loud. I'm a thinking out loud. I ask lots of questions and think, but it's not because I, Disrespect what's being said or, um, are criticising with someone's work. I ask questions to understand. It's part of my thinking process. And actually I've often had to share that with my teams to say, I'm not criticising you. This is what I do to help me understand. Some people need to read stuff in advance. So they have time to process something. So you might want to think about your team members and what you know about them, and if that is a characteristic you've noticed about them, then that's maybe something you might need to start doing sharing information in advance. Some people contribute best in writing. Now that might be that you are able to just, if you're in a, A virtual meeting, they can contribute via the chat function in whatever platform it is that you're using. Or it may be the afterwards. They come back or they contribute in advance, they might give you their thoughts in advance if they have the information in advance, or it might be that they provide some thinking afterwards, as long as the decision hasn't been made before they provide the thinking. Some people are comfortable challenging in the moment, and as long as they're doing that with theirs, you know, with radical candour and kindness, then absolutely fine. And others need more structure before they're able to speak. They need to be familiar with a pattern in a meeting so that they know when they're coming in. And for neurodivergent team members. Meetings can sometimes create additional barriers that are not always visible for us, for um, for most. Fast moving conversations are really difficult, unclear agendas when we go off paste can really be unsettling. Interruptions, sudden changes of the topic, Sensory distractions, or being asked for an immediate response can make it harder for some people to contribute well. So we need to be careful and not assume with our neurodivergent colleagues. Please don't assume silence means disengagement. And please do not assume someone is being difficult because they ask for clarity on something that they've maybe Lost the flow of the conversation and are asking you to bring it back for them. Don't assume someone has nothing to add because they're not speaking as much as other people. And please do not assume you know what supports someone needs. You have neurodivergent people in your team. Ask them. Ask them in a way that does not expose them in the middle of a meeting. But through a conversation outside of the room. Ask them, something like, is there anything that helps you contribute more effectively meetings or, What works best for you so I can make that an opportunity for you to be able to contribute? Or are there any adjustments that you would that would make meetings easier or more useful for you? Reasonable adjustments do not need to be complicated, but they absolutely need to happen in meetings so that you're neurodivergent team members can contribute effectively. And what you need to do is use your agenda and protect the agenda without avoiding what matters and what I mean by this. A useful agenda should not be bureaucratic. Okay, it is leadership within itself. helps people understand the purpose of the meeting. It helps them understand what will be covered. How they need to prepare, and what outcome is expected, and how the time will be used. But a good agenda also helps you notice when something is taken over. So sometimes a meeting starts with a very clear purpose, but then one issue becomes bigger than expected, and we all know, we've all been in those meetings when that happens. A disagreement might open up, a bit of a jibe between 2 of the team members. A topic might become emotional. A risk might appear that genuinely needs more attention or a conversation becomes a bit more confrontational than expected. Okay, in that moment as a leader, you have a choice. You can let the issue take over. And what's going to happen is the whole meeting and your whole agenda is going to be hijacked. You can shut it down too quickly, which means that actually the topic that's being discussed that has obviously got people riled or has got people so interested that they are going on and on and on. It's got something really important that you cannot avoid addressing. And if you shut it down too quickly, you are going to miss something important. Or you can lead the moment. And that might sound something like. This is clearly bigger than the time we have available today. And I don't want to rush this conversation. So, and I don't want to lose the rest of the gender today. So, Let's continue with the agenda, but we need to agree to have a separate focus conversation about this topic. and we'll bring the right people to that meeting so that nothing is missed. It matters, but it needs its own space. So let's pause here. And because it's far too important to squeeze it into the rest of the remaining time. So see what happened there? It wasn't avoidance. It's containment. It means you're respecting the issue that has arisen. And the agenda. And one thing you must do as a leader is immediately after the meeting, follow up with a time to have that continued conversation and don't leave it too long. Okay? Have it as soon as possible. So, if it has been something a bit negative that it doesn't fester with your team. Having and running better meetings is not just about the agenda. It helps keep everything tight. It helps keep everything focussed. It helps people know what they're doing. But it's also about how you lead the room. And leading the room does not mean you doing all of the talking. Let me say that again. Does not mean you doing all of the talking. It's a common trap for leaders, especially those who care deeply and feel responsible for making things work. Those leaders often prepare the agenda. They often open the meeting. They explain the context. They offer their view, they answer questions. They fill the silences because they're not comfortable with silence, which is so important to be comfortable with silence folks. And they summarise a discussion. And before you know it, at the end of the meeting has just been a broadcast from the leader with the odd occasional contribution from the team members. That's not a meeting. Okay? It is a monologue with witnesses. A good meeting leader. Does not dominate the room. They hold it. They are facilitating the room. They keep the purpose clear. They invite contribution. They ask amazing questions, out of curiosity, because they want to know more about what you have to see. They listen carefully. They acknowledge your contribution. They show very positive facial expressions in body language, They know who hasn't contributed either through spoken or written contribution, And they summarise as they go. To keep things coming back to the purpose and they summarise what's been emerging. They move the group very carefully and skilfully towards a decision. And they make sure the meeting doesn't drift. It doesn't get lost in these. Incidental conversations that can hijack. It doesn't collapse because one person is speaking all the time and everyone else switches off. They are masters at facilitating well. And to do that, to make sure that everyone else gets a voice. They might say, okay, folks, I've introduced now. I've spoken enough on this. I want to hear what others are seeing here. Or they might say, okay, let's pause here. Who has a different view? Or if there are particularly a couple of people taking over, they might say, okay, we've heard from a few people. I'd like to bring those in who haven't spoken or contributed in the chat yet. And. It's really important to remember and to remind people that you'd like to hear and you'd like the rest of the team to hear from everyone because the decision will affect the whole team. Or indeed, like my lady that I used to bring into meetings with me. As specifically, you might see something different or something missing because you're closer to the client than we are. And those types of questions, those type of people are really important, particularly if there's a seniority differential in the meeting, they might not feel that they should be contributing. So ask specific questions. Now the whole point of a leader. Facilitating a meeting isn't to force performance. It's to make contribution possible. It's to keep agenda moving along, it's to keep to time, it's to values people's, Time and opinions and contributions and to make sure that you reach the destination, the outcome of your meeting, the purpose of your meeting is reached by the end of your meeting. And actually one way that meetings can completely collapse, it can be run brilliantly until it comes to the end where you have to make decisions. Just because something has been discussed doesn't mean it's been agreed. Okay? And just because nobody objected doesn't mean everyone is clear. So in many teams, you can have a dangerous little gap between conversation and commitment. Hey, we talk in meetings, a rough direction has emerged. We all seem to fit me thinking on the, we're on the, talking about the same thing. We're all in the same song sheet and The leader assumes everyone understands. And the meeting moves on. And we're going to talk about something else. And then a week later, nothing has happened. Somebody might say, um, what was the decision we made about that again? I can't quite remember. And they can't remember because there was no decision made. People of interpreted the conversation differently. So they might saying, uh, who's doing that piece of work? Who did we decide was going to be doing that taking that forward? It's really important that in each meeting, you have agreed, what's happening, agreed the action. So every point on the agenda should have an action, and somebody should be owning it. And doing it within whatever time frame and communicating that and recording it is really, really important. So as the leader leading the meeting, you might see. Before we move on, I just want to check, we're not mistaking discussion for agreement. We haven't landed on the decision yet. So what are we deciding? And the leader might put that out for other people to offer their opinion on what the decision should be, or the leader should maybe ask for a vote, or the leader should make the decision if there is just ambiguity amongst the team. And those decisions should be visible. Make sure you're recording a note. It could be a simple email or it could be an agenda, um summary. sorry, a minute of the meeting. Or it could be that you have a system, a stop in place where you can just upload who's doing what by when. Recording and making it clear and visible to everyone who was there, so everyone knows what they have to do is absolutely vital. It doesn't matter which tool you use. is more about being disciplined. Okay? I've just shared a lot of information with you, and if you're listening to this and thinking, where do I start? I'd suggest using a simple meeting reset. So you don't need to overhaul every meeting at once. Get comfortable, do this one step at a time. Start with one regular meeting that you have. Particularly one that currently feels frustrating. Um, or where too many people attend or you, you know, you know your gut. Why it's not right. You just might not want to admit it to yourself, okay? And ask yourself. What is the purpose of this meeting? Why are you having it? What's it all about? Is this meeting important and is it genuinely still needed? Then I want you to have a think about who attends the meeting. Who needs to be at the table? Then what outcome do we need by the end? Now you might have multiple things on your agenda and make sure that you have an outcome for each thing on the agenda. What needs to be prepared in advance? What kind of contribute contribution are we asking for? Are there any reasonable adjustments that would help people contribute more effectively? How will decisions and actions be captured? How will we follow up? Something I've not discussed. Maybe at your next meeting. At the very start, you have a quick check in about previous actions. Always a good way to follow up. Now one thing I would maybe suggest to you to do, is you actually ask your team, you could possibly say to them, I've been thinking about this meeting. And my gut is telling me that it's not working well. So I'd like you to take 5 minutes to review the meetings for me, to answer honestly about what's working and what's not working for you, and what we need to do with this time together. How can we do it better? You might ask, is there anything that would help people contribute more effectively in these meetings? And that alone can be very powerful. However, if you don't have psychological safety, Can I just say? That if you don't have that type of culture, people won't give you the honest answer because you might be the problem. By asking people further opinions is definitely a good place to start. So I'd like to bring this episode to a close. I want you to think that better meetings are not about more for being more formal for the sake of it. Remember, they're about respecting people's time and energy and attention, then about improving the quality of thinking and decision making. There about having the right people in the room to make contributions that are valuable to help towards you making decisions. They're about creating enough safety for people to speak honestly. And they're about making contribution possible for different people in different ways. Meetings, shape, culture. They tell a lot of people about how you are as a leader. And we're not, you know, if you've got a very tight agenda and you're managing a meeting well doesn't mean that you're a micromanager. Your gift comes in how you give space for others to speak and how you value their contribution and how you value their time by keeping the agenda tight. So. If this episode has made you think of one meeting that needs a reset, I think you should start there. Ask yourself all these questions I've mentioned, and to help you do that, I've created the meeting reset template, which is just a very simple resource. You can use to review and redesign one meeting so that has clearer purpose. That you have better contribution and you have stronger follow through. And you'll find the link in the show notes or or blind. And webpage on my website on yourleadership.co.uk. Because when you own your leadership, my friends. You will create sustainable impact without overwhelm. And sometimes that starts with something as ordinary and mundane, but as hugely powerful. As running a better meeting. Let me know how you get on. I love to hear. Enjoy. Bye.