The Personal Brand Advantage

Speaker A: M

Speaker B: In order to truly become part of the global business environment, your business needs to constantly change and adapt to a variety of new constants. Welcome to Leadership Beyond Borders with Kimberly J. Lewis. We will help you navigate these changes on today's program and help you think beyond the boundaries. The opportunities are limitless if you are prepared. Now here is your host, Kimberly J. Lewis.

Speaker A: Hello and welcome to Leadership Vampire Borders. I'm Kimberly Lewis, your host and this series is in cooperation with Cinder Virtual which brings you thought leaders and business stories from all over the world. Now you can learn more about cinda under www.cinda.org. now we don't only bring you thought leaders and business stories from all over the world, but we bring also have listeners from all over the world. So good morning, good afternoon, or good evening wherever you may be listening from today. And if you're new to the series, let me tell you what this series is about. Leadership Beyond Borges is about the impact global Asian digital transition and the connected world is having on our organizations, what this impact is doing to the kind of leadership we need to drive long term success in today's economy. In this series we've talked about everything from business issues such as artificial intelligence, digital transitions and data protection regulations to leadership issues such as gender balance and business values and ethics that may impact your organization or your individual career. So please listen to us live every Tuesday, 3:00pm Pacific time. And if you miss us live, don't worry about it. Put Leadership Beyond Borders into your browser and you'll find us on every major platform, podcast platform M from Apple to Google to Stitcher to Spotify, you'll find us all over the web. Now I also invite you to connect with me. Please send me your thoughts and insights to leadershipbeyondborders gmail.com and connect with me on my website, leadershipbeyondborders.net now let me know what you want to hear about, what kind of subjects you want to hear on this show. But regardless of what, if you're in a leadership position or aspire to be in one, regardless if your business is international or local, make sure you join us each week and we'll make sure you take away something useful for either your business or for yourself. Now on to today's podcast and this is really for yourself. Today we're going to talk about personal branding and personal branding has never been more important or misunderstood. In a world where visibility often gets confused with self promotion, today's conversation explores a different path, building reputation through value, credibility and impact. We'll discuss why personal branding is no longer optional, how professionals can stand out without becoming influencers, and what it really takes to create lasting authority in the age of AI. So we have a guest that is an expert in this area and I'm happy to welcome today Vanessa Arakati and she is the author of the new book Value Redefining Personal Branding by Leading with Impact Over Image and it's published by Wiley and it came out this spring in 2026. Now Vanessa is an award winning lecturer, marketing consultant and founder of Marketing Simplified. Vanessa has spent more than two decades helping organizations and professionals clarify their value, stand out and create meaningful impact. She teaches one of the nation's only four credit MBA courses in personal branding at ah. UC Davis Graduate School of along with several highly regarded marketing courses and has twice been named the teacher of the Year. Recognized as a favorite professor by Poets and Quants in its Best and brightest MBA feature, she considers guiding students toward their goals as one of her greatest honors. So, Vanessa, welcome to the show.

Speaker C: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Speaker A: Yeah, you know this when I. Personal branding, um, let's just start kind of a high level. It's become such a loaded term term. Everybody talks about it, um, but then a lot of times when people talk about it, they kind of recoil from it. Okay, they kind of. There's a lot of misunderstanding around it. Why is that?

Speaker C: I think it's because we are used to what we see. And when we go to the Internet, I think the important thing to remember on social media is that, uh, only 1% of people are doing the majority of posting every single day. Only 10% of people post consistently, which leaves 90% of people kind of lurking around. But going back to that 1% of people, those are our influencers. Those are the people that are trying to gain as many followers as possible so that they can get those sponsorships and exchange those posts for monetary value. Personal branding is a little bit different. Personal branding, well, branding in general is different. Right? Branding in general. When we have a favorite corporate brand, we think about what that brand does for us. Us. And that's why we buy. It should be no different with the personal brand. But we put the word personal in front of it and we think again, it's about us showing up day in, day out and posting about our own accomplishments, our own achievements and who we are when we really should be posting about what we can do for other people listening. And then that post becomes more memorable. It travels further. The algorithm helps it out because More people are clicking and we get more of that action that we expect when we do this kind of branding for corporations. So I think that the influencer strategy, which is its own career, has taken the place of a branding strategy and we have defined that as personal branding because again, it's most of what we see. Mhm.

Speaker A: And that's why we get confused because I mean those influencers, that 1% are pretty much in your face. Okay. No, I mean you see them a lot. Um, and me, if I think of myself as a professional and my brand, I, I automatically compare it to that. Um, do you see that happening with a lot of professionals? I mean, you just said we're mixing it up. Okay, I get that. But let's take it a step further. Um, is it holding us back a little bit? Because you know, I don't want to be an influence and I see the influencer, I'm mixing this up. So I kind of recoil a little bit from personal, personal banding because I think that's what I have to do.

Speaker C: Absolutely. So, you know, they say comparison is the thief of joy. It's also the thief of success. Right. Uh, no better way to be intimidated about stepping forward online than to compare yourself to the influencer. Number one, you don't think you have enough followers, which we can bust that myth today because there's followers and engagement rate and list of your own, your own database is, is much different. Uh, so that's people, people really recoil on, on that which, which is such a myth, number one. Number two, people don't think they have anything interesting to say. And the cool thing about, about that one is we can learn how to be distinctive. We can learn so many things. But people think that just that person that seems so magical and distinctive and that great profound leader is just lucky they're not. There's frameworks for that. And so that needs to also be put to rest. And then the third thing is time. And I get it because I don't have time. I run a business, I teach at a top university in the world, I have two school aged kids. None of us have time. But in one to three hours a week we can do some really meaningful work online. And we put that amount of time into ourselves in person. When we think about our weeks and when we think about the networking we need to do and where we need to be and what we need to say there and all those kinds of things. Things. Right. But when it comes to online, we don't put as much thought into it. And spending that One to three hour intentional weekly time can really fix that because I, I don't want to ask people to do anything that I wouldn't or couldn't do. And I certainly can't spend more time than that each week on my personal brand.

Speaker A: I can imagine. And, and in your book and, and what when you're teaching, you say that, that but this branding for professionals, it's really not optional anymore. So you know, we don't, we think about the 1 to 3 and you're right, I think, oh, 1 to 3 I really should do it. Um, but you know, you know, go to that comparison thing. Well, maybe if I, why I won't do it. But you're saying that it's kind of for professionals in order to find our place. It's, it's, it's not optional anymore, is it?

Speaker C: It's not optional. It's not just for Gen Z either. You know, this, this AI economy is not just a Gen Z problem as far as like the shrinkage of Jobs. And I think we all need to become a little more entrepreneurial and make our own paths. The first step to that is create a pull marketing effect for yourself, which means people seek you out. I think also though there is a time in one's career and it happens for you're ready usually when you have done. We have all been taught. I'm um, I'm 44 years old, so I'm like cusp of millennial and Gen X. Um, I was taught in school that I need to be really, really good at what I do that will lead to success and promotions. And it did. What no one tells you is that there is a point in everybody's career where you pivot from needing to be really good at what you do, at the task to move up and then you become in this position of leadership and it becomes all about the vision, all about rallying the team and all about being clear about the path ahead. Right. So it becomes about being a good thinker. And if we're not ready to meet that moment, the Internet and people on the Internet, they shape it for us. And I'll give you an example. So last month in the New York Times they reported that. Well actually two months ago, end of April now because we're already in June. Jeez. The New York Times, I don't know if you remember when they reported that Tim Cook is retiring from Apple as CEO and John Ternus is someone who is being strongly considered to be the next CEO of Apple. And they described who John Ternus was his accomplishments. And they said in a sentence. Now, the next thing Apple needs to decide is if they want another deft manager or an innovator. And deft managers are not bad. I mean, it's a term that sounds kind of bad to me, but it's not bad. I mean, they make money, they manage their people well. They keep the. They keep the ship sailing. However, I think that. Or should have been an and, because if you're John Ternus, you're also an innovator. If you're John Ternus, you and around 50 years old and being considered for the CEO of Apple, I'm sure you're pretty exceptional. But. But he didn't step out and kind of outline that for himself. So people decided for him that he's this technical guy that makes these great incremental decisions. But when you really research him, he did some really clever things, too. When he thought about different types of cameras for different types of phones and how that could segment the market and things like that. Those are very innovative ways of thinking of this product that you think is just one thing that you update all the time. Time. So if we don't define our own distinction and if we don't start practicing it sooner, the moment does catch up to us, and we want to be in control of that moment. So both ends of the market, I think, need to be a bit more concerned about this in 2026, because think about it. When you were considering, um, okay, I have Vanessa's book. I've been reading Vanessa's book. It's compelling in these ways. Do I want her on my podcast? You went and stalked me a little online. I'm sure you did. You know, and I went and stalked you a little bit online to prepare. Right, right. And so we just naturally do these things because, you know, it's. It's like, you know, looking people up in the yellow Pages or whatever. You know, before the Internet, we tried to gather information. We would call people who knew that person, and, you know, we want to know what we're getting into now. The Internet's this perfect place to do that, and we all do it, you know, so we need to control that for ourselves.

Speaker A: Yeah. And how does that, um. Just, you know, we're controlling that. But if I. If I go back maybe 10 years, or not even 10 years, my gosh, it's only been like five or six years. You know, we've talked about branding and. And it was. It was really not about kind of the acts we do, but more of the. The Package you prevent. And I think about women especially, okay, you know, how do they show up, you know, before virtual, how did they show up at the office, how did they act? Okay, how, how are we being able to shift? Because there are still some of those traditional insights on branding. Are we able to, to kind of get out of those old ways of thinking of branding into the new ones now?

Speaker C: I see what you're saying.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: That's another thing where I think my age, like millennials on up, you know, um, I think this is a struggle because we really were taught that business is business, personal is personal, and if you want to succeed, keep everything at home. And then we were followed by a generation on down of native digital natives where everything's combined. I'll never forget one time my mom was coming over to babysit my daughter when she was 2, she brought a stack of photos for me of me was my daughter's age when I was a toddler and she handed them to my daughter because you know how little kids are fascinated when they see like their parents were babies at one point.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: And so Ella, uh, looks at the top photo and just stares at it and there's a whole stack, right. And so my mom goes, well, hun, huh? Keep looking. There's a bunch of photos for you to look at. And you know what Ella did? She took her finger and she swiped on the top photo. I will never forget this moment because that's what she thought a picture was. It lives inside a device.

Speaker A: Yeah, yep, yep, yeah.

Speaker C: And so, yeah. And so here, these, these kids, this next generation, you know, they separate nothing and who they are in person and online and all this, it's all congealed. It's just how they've naturally lived. Us, on the other hand, we're like, okay, here's our privacy setting and here's, here's how we're going to manage this and we're going to make sure we lock this down. And it's like, it's a, uh, it's starting to become a fallacy. Right. We just can't control it all. But I had a distinct moment in my career so I was building my business. When my son was born, I was a few years in and things were going really well. I had, I had a few employees, I had big time clients. And I'm like, I'm not going to take a maternity leave. I don't want to lose the momentum. Um, I don't want to start over. And so I just worked through it. And I remember when he was five days old, I went to this 8:00am meeting, and, um, he, uh. The client. I was trying to get down to business, and the client was like, jack, How's Jack? How's everything going? And I kept saying, fine, fine. And, like, looking at the agenda, and all of a sudden the client was like, do you like your son? And I'm like, yes, I love my son. I actually started. My eyes started welling up, you know, and it. And it was at that point that I realized, you know, he looked at me and he said, listen, if you're worried that, you know, you just had this child, I actually think more of you for how you're showing up and what you're doing right now. I actually can't believe it. It makes me want to hire you more. And then I had a moment in my career where my daughter ran into this health issue that really was very serious, and I just. I couldn't hide it anymore. And it actually made my business stronger because my clients started saying things to me about their own struggles. And then you get more information about what you're working on too, because when you're willing to. A little bit vulnerable, they're willing to be a little bit vulnerable in return. And we become humans to one another instead of, um, you know, machines that are just doing a job. And the ironic thing about all of this is now we have those machines. We, um. And it's called AI. And so now that human edge is even more important.

Speaker A: Yeah, it really is. And those are great stories. And it is interesting because once, you know, there are a lot of people that are in our same positions, and when you. When you put your own self out there and your real self, and then that's really when. When people start to say, aha, you know, I'm not alone. Look at this. And, uh, anyways, we're going to take. Vanessa, we're going to take a short break, and we come back. Um, I want to go into, you know, we talked a little bit this traditional branding versus, you know, versus what it is today. And, um, I want to go into a little bit about, you know, creating value, um, and how value creates visibility. You talk about that in your book. Um, and I want to touch a little bit on. On rebranding. Um, because if you go back to those old stereotypes, you know, what happens to the Gen X's that are there and have a brand? Is it possible to rebrand? We're gonna. We're gonna talk about that after the break. And for our listeners, we are talking to Vanessa Erakati and she is the author of Valuable and Visible Redefining Personal Branding by Leading with Impact Overall Image. And the book is available online and it was published by widely. And you can also go up to her website on www.vanessaerikate and I'll spell that a little bit later.com and she's also on Facebook under Vanessa Iricate and on instagram and on LinkedIn and as podcast is also brought to you by Cinda and Cinda is a search and information association as a European nonprofit. And you can find out more About Cinda on www.cinda.org. and with that, we're going to take a short break and we'll be right back.

Speaker B: Today we live in a truly global environment. Business can more easily be conducted now in almost any part of the world. How do you, as a business owner or professional, navigate the ever changing business landscape? Tune in to Leadership Beyond Borders with host Kimberly J. Lewis. With a worldwide resource of guests, you'll find out what opportunities and challenges surround diverse and virtual organizations. Listen every Tuesday at 3:00pm U.S. pacific Time on the Voice America Business Channel.

Speaker A: When it comes to business, you'll find the experts here. Voice America Business Network.

Speaker B: You are listening to Leadership Beyond Borders. Do you have a question or comment about our show? Please send an email to leadershipbeyondborders gmail.com again, that's leadershipbeyondborders gmail dot com now back to this week's program.

Speaker A: Welcome back to Leadership Beyond Borders. I'm Kimberly Lewis, your host. And today we're talking with Vanessa Arakati and she's the author of Valuable and Visible Redefining Personal Branding by Leading with Impact Over Image. And before the break, um, some great stories, uh, about you and your work, Vanessa. And during the break, Vanessa, we kind of had, um, a little discussion. And when I read the title of your book, um, Branding by Leading with Impact Over Image, um, I said to you, you know, I'm the end of Generation X. And I remember you being a female and being a professional and them wanting us to have a certain image and. But the image was about that image. Okay. They'd send us to, um, I remember color classes on which colors you're supposed to wear. Um, you know, classes on how to talk in meetings, you know, this kind of thing. Um, it's really kind of, you know, today a Gen Z wouldn't even think about that. Okay. Um, so we've moved completely from that into the other direction. So how do we now create our image? Through value and through other Ways and not the ways we did it, you know, 10, 15 years ago.

Speaker C: Yeah, um, well, I think we, it, it is kind of this thing we have to unlearn. And I do think that, um, it is an unfair advantage for younger folks because they're just looser about it. I mean, I look at my own kids and I'm like, did you just really text that picture of you making that face to your, to your friend? You know, that, that, that will live on forever. You know, they're like, it's funny, it's funny. And I'm like, well, it is funny, you know, and, and then, and they're done. They're over it. Right? And for me, I'm just like, gosh, I would never do that. But the thing is, um, there's actually research that shows that, um, you know, imperfection, comfort converts better. There was actually a blooper study that I put in the book that was done, um, in partnership with Google back in 2023, and it found that like 20% more, um, stickiness, like people watch videos longer, those videos convert better if someone does do something imperfectly, like stutters over a word or, you know, has spinach in their teeth or something like that, because then it signals that we're human. Right? And we all like humans. I mean, no one is perfect. There are people who think they're perfect and, you know, we don't like to hang out with those people anyway. Right. So, yeah, it's, we relate to that humanness. That's why reality TV was so successful, because we were all watching for that, like, train wreck to happen. Right? And intrigued by it because we know underneath it all, we have a little bit of train wreck in ourselves. Right? So that authenticity, again, is that relatability, I think, you know, that's one thing that machines, AI, all the things can't replicate, is that human authenticity. And so, you know, a way to get around this worry about image so much because again, that's what we see from the 1% of influencers and that is their job because they are selling products. Right?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: But for the brand, for the human thought leader, you are selling knowledge to people in return. What you want in return is visibility. You want credibility, you want doors opening, you want different things coming your way, opportunity wise. Right? And in order to do that, let's take a step away and let's say, okay, as we're trying to sell our value, it's not so much about us, it's about what we know. So I always say personal branding is not about you, everybody's wrong. And, uh, then I go on to say, it's about what you can do for other people. So if I can paradigm flip something like Tony Robbins says, knowledge isn't power. Knowledge is potential power. Action is power. That's this counterintuitive point of view. And it signals to me all of a sudden, geez, if I stop my scroll and if I read more, he might teach me something. I don't know, because I actually always thought knowledge was powerful power. You m. Know, so if I'm not getting traction with my knowledge, then I need to read more about what this person is saying so I can do that. And all of a sudden that's not about my image. I actually don't care what he looks like if he can teach me something valuable.

Speaker A: And we're talking about knowledge. I think there's, there's something in your book that you, you talk about knowledge and then you talk about, you know, being an expert as, as opposed to being authority. Um, you know, when, when I'm reading things on LinkedIn or, um, you know, I, I, I, uh, don't know the real difference, even though I can feel the difference when I'm reading it. Okay. I feel the difference between maybe something a little bit more authoritarian versus expertise. What is the difference? And, and how does that contribute to, you know, getting, uh, to producing your image?

Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. So, you know, there's a reason why when you purchase a new car, that window sticker is folded into little squares underneath. Very strong adhesive on the window. Because the sales dealership knows that you already want the car. You want it, because it's going to keep you safe or help you save the environment or show how prestigious you are. Something like that. And so then, like, after you've kind of decided you're going to buy it, or even after you buy it, there's people that, like, get home and say, oh, I better take the window sticker off. And then you look at it and it's like, oh, the engine is cool. It's what they say it's going to be. Right, Right. Um, our authority is the window sticker. Our authority, our credentials, the, the whole bio. You read about me, right? The thing that naturally floats around the Internet in these passive spaces. Our expertise is that knowledge that draws people in and makes them want to find out more of us. And so if we do that properly, it's like the window sticker, people take it off in their own time and they use it as confirmation that we are who we say we are. But it's more like that safety net for them, you know, um, that double check. It's really our expertise that gets them. And people think that expertise and expert are the same thing and that you have to wait 30 years to become the, that expert in your field, but you don't. It's about the different point of view I always tell people. Like there's simple steps to take to say, what does everybody think about this thing that I want to talk and teach about? That is something I have passion about. What it, what do I see as the real problem? What is my understanding of a better solution? What some tested, what is some, um, tested evidence that shows that this is true? Right. We don't want to be all counterintuitive. And then it's like, okay, well now you just told a big lie. Right. You want to prove it.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: And then how should people act on it? Right. Because if you can tell someone something new. If I can tell you right now, you know what, Here, do this. Take your phone right now, turn it on, put it in selfie mode, hit record on your video function and introduce yourself to your phone. Then post that online and say, you know what, I think I'm going to start sharing a better way to tie your shoes or whatever it is. Right. Um, in your post.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And see what that post does. I guarantee you'll be like, I am so embarrassed of this. This was so hard for me to do. But that post will fly around the Internet.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: Um, or LinkedIn or whatever it is. And so when people do something that helps them succeed, that's when they earn trust. And we know in real life that we have to trust a brand before we make a purchase from it. So if you want someone to listen to you online, earn their trust. Because then they do more than they do for the influencer. See, the influencer has to keep showing up over and over. And the influencer does have to look a certain way and perform a certain way because they're doing what all the other influencers are doing. So it's very competitive. And when they leave the feed, you forget them until they show up again because it's all the same. And we forget what's the same same. But when you've given someone something that's helped them and they trust you, you have helped them off the feed and now they're remembering you off the feed and they're referring you off the feed.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: And that is what drives growth. Everyone says marketing drives growth. The first thing that we have to drive Is the memorability that referral? Right. Memorability is what drives growth. Marketing should drive memorability.

Speaker A: Right, Yeah, I like that. Um, let me ask, let me take another step. Okay. I wanted, I was talking about, you know, the, the Gen X and, and some of us who've been in the workforce for quite a few time. Okay. So maybe we haven't been out there driving memorability. Maybe we've, we've, we've got a reputation. That might be a better word than. Because we're not trying to. We haven't been actively branding. So it might be a reputation there. But a lot of people have, have, have good and bad ones or, or different ones. How do you, when you're in your career already and you want to kind of twist that, you know, is it possible to rebrand? Okay. Uh, and a lot of times reputation is earned or it's not earned. It could be by mistake. It could be part of unconscious biases. It could be different things. Um, you know, is there a possibility for people in their, you know, mid career or later career then to step back and say, um, I'm going to rebrand myself and, and try to, you know, gain that value and gain that trust, even though I haven't had it up to now?

Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. We see the best politicians do this all the time. I know competition is a charged word. Right. But the ones that are willing to be human say, I was wrong about this and this is how I feel now. And actually being able to admit you're wrong and being sincere about it, that's another human thing that gains trust and remember how powerful that trust is. And so if there is something that you were wrong about and that's what you're concerned about, then a perfect way is to lean into it. It and just say that this is even more powerful now because, you know, we learn more. Uh, my kids come home all the time with phrases from their teachers like, mistakes are how we learn. Right. And so, you know, you could even say the deeper understanding that you've gained because you had this opinion, or, uh, you've done this and now you changed your opinion. Have you ever seen the things on the Internet that you always click on? Saying three things I wished I'd known when.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: And so, yeah, so positioning, that is not the hard part. And I will tell you something too, about this myth of once we launch a brand, we always have to be on brand. Because Disney launched as a mouse and an idea. Right. Thank goodness Walt Disney didn't hesitate, um, because he only Had a mouse and an idea and he grew. You know, when we say, like, here's our perfect brand and now we're going to put it out in the world and we set it and forget it, the balance sheet on that corporate brand is actually pretty scary because people grow and change while the brand stays static. And so, you know, you're a person. We expect your brand to grow and change. Look at Joanna Gaines. She's this American. Um, they had that remodel show, you know, she and her husband. And now she opened a bakery and she leaned into the esthetic of everything, right. The design and then the design of her food, and it actually worked. And so find that common thread and don't be afraid for your brand to go and change, grow and change with you. I mean, look at jeans, right? No one's wearing skinny jeans anymore.

Speaker A: No.

Speaker C: Um, but brands that are only making those skinny jeans aren't selling as many, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah. They're back to the 80s now with the big ones.

Speaker C: Yeah. And what I forgot to mention, what I forgot to mention before we, we move on is just that there is research, again, that shows that rebrands actually can make a brand, um, more sticky, uh, meaning people remember it more because, again, it's a very human thing to grow and change. And it's another point of relatability. So don't worry about stepping out and making that pivot. You can do it. It's actually something that we expect you to do.

Speaker A: Yeah, let me, ah, let me throw a little, um, actually, we're going to take a break before I come to the next question. Um, because, um, I want to talk a little bit about, about, you know, taste, um, and biases and, and branding. And I also want to ask you a little bit about, um, you know, do you really need a massive audience or can you start really small? And, um, and, and how you get the visibility out there. So we'll talk about that after the break. And for our listeners, we are talking with Vanessa Erakati and she is the author of Valuable and Visible Redefining Personal Branding by Leading with Impact Over Image and it' and you can also find it on her website. And her website is Vanessa Eracate, and that is E R R E C A R T E dot com. And she's also on Facebook under Vanessa Arakate and on Instagram and on LinkedIn. So please reach out to her. And the book is a fantastic read. And this broadcast is also brought to you by, by Cinda. And CINDA is the search and information Industry Association. It's a European nonprofit that unites companies in digital marketing, local search, search technology, um, information services and e commerce. It organizes conference workshops and networking events, offers research and regulatory insights. It advocates on digital policy within the European Union and supports its members with training, certifications and professional development. Now, its next conference will be held in Marbella, Spain in October 2026. And its CEO executive insight trip is actually in two weeks in Buenos Aires, Argentina. So if you'd like to learn more about that or join one of those programs, please go to www.cinda.org. and with that, we'll take a short break and we'll be right back.

Speaker C: Foreign.

Speaker A: The latest business information is made simple with the Voice America Business Network. The professionals in the business world bring you live talk radio shows featuring an array of business topics, strategies for building wealth, sales and marketing, stock trading, investing and business technology. Technology Voice America Business hosts of, uh, professionals in their fields and bring to

Speaker B: the airwaves weekly business discussions that offer

Speaker A: up to date information, advice and education.

Speaker B: The Voice America Business Network. The bottom line in business talk.

Speaker C: Voice America is on LinkedIn. Connect with us. Today.

Speaker B: You are listening to Leadership Beyond Borders. Do you have a question or comment about our show? Please send an email to leadershipbeyondbordersmail.com again, that's leadershipbeyondbordersmail.Com now back to this week's program.

Speaker A: Welcome back to Leadership Beyond Borders. I'm Kimberly Lewis, your host and we're talking today about Redefining personal branding. Okay. And, um, we're talking with an expert in this area where we're talking with Vanessa Ericotte and she's the author of Valuable Invisible Redefining Personal Branding by Leading with Impact Over Image. Um, a book came out this year in the spring, um, published by Wiley, available on the Internet. A great read. Um, I really got into it and I have a thousand questions for you, Vanessa. So let's see if we can at least get to a few more before the end of the show. So one question I have for you, Vanessa, is, um, we're going online. We're trying to get, uh, you know, show our value, um, communicate what we know, try to, you know, engage with people. Okay. Um, but let's say I don't have like this massive audience. Okay. Does, um, that matter that much in the beginning?

Speaker C: No. In fact, I love that lab because your audience grows as your ability grows. So if you have a small audience to start, I say I love that because you're making these posts. I always encourage people to start once a week with a thought leadership post. And I have all these steps broken down into how do you make a simple thought leadership post that's counterintuitive, compelling, etc. I always. And, uh, so once a week, and after you do this for a couple months, that small audience audience, they probably know you best. And so they're going to be a very kind mentor to you. And through your analytics, you're going to see what they like most and what they don't, and they're going to compliment you on what you they like most and kind of back off a little with what they don't. And then you're going to learn more about what people like the best, about what you say. And as your audience grows, you're saying what they like the most already. So there's a natural progression there, number one. Number two, um, my students dared me once to go viral because they said, well, you don't really try going viral that much, but you always say it doesn't work. And I say, okay, sure, I'll go viral. So I did. I followed this trend that was going around TikTok, and it was funny because it was like an interplay between spouses. Um, the trend was my spouse does not know the difference between going to the airport and being chased by a bear. Because my husband's very stressed out, he makes us get to the airport hours early. So on spring break, I made this whole video that, with all the voiceovers and all the things they do and about making fun of him, you know, down to him putting his belt back on all authoritatively after security and stuff, just so he could get to the gate faster to wait two hours and five minutes instead of two hours. Right. And it was funny. And at the end, I zoomed into a bookstore in the airport and said, oh, and my book's coming out May 5th. That post got 50,000 views in a day. Yes. And, uh, it had less than a 1% engagement rate. So when you take, like, people's comments, likes, and any action they take beyond just viewing something and you divide it by views, that's your engagement rate. My engagement rate is usually 4 to 10% or more. We hope for at least 2% on online posts. Right. And so that means that my audience is very engaged with me and my audience is not huge. Like on any given platform, I have, you know, a, uh, thousand, two thousand, you know, followers. But those people convert, you know, those, those 50,000 viewers. They don't want to buy my book. They don't want to learn about marketing or Personal branding. They want to go laugh at the things my husband and I do. And that's why, if I were an influencer, I'd have to show up every day and do stuff like that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: So If I have 10 people and two of them are going to want to give me an opportunity or, you know, hire me for a consulting gig or purchase something, I'd rather have that audience than a hundred people who are going to lurk. Remember, 90% of the people lurk on the Internet, so it's pretty easy to get followed by a lot of lurkers if you show up and do those kinds of viral things every day.

Speaker A: But.

Speaker C: But you're not going to get much penetration as far as what you want for your own professional opportunities. So the small audience is the engaged audience. They've likely met you, they will refer you more, um, and that you will grow the exact kind of person you want. You don't want people in your audience that are never going to convert. They just mess up your metrics and corporate branding. We talk about firing those customers or potential customers.

Speaker A: Um, that's. But I have to go see if that's still on YouTube because my husband's German and we have to get there four hours before, so.

Speaker C: Oh, I love that. Okay, so it's, it's on my Instagram. And, um. Yeah, go find it there. And.

Speaker A: Yeah, so this, there's nothing worse than a German when it comes to time. So.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, anyways, no, I mean, that's. So, you know, let's go back to that for a minute. So you're, you're, you're finding your audience, you're getting that engagement. The audience. Um, how do you. Where do you start? Okay. You know, do you. Starting, um, without promoting one platform or another, you know, in the professional life, you know, thought leadership on, on, um, LinkedIn or, you know, um, how do you. I mean, how do you find out? You. I think in your book you have a quote, something like your own corner of the Internet. How do you find your own corner of the Internet?

Speaker C: Yes. So I always tell people social media is great for being discovered. It's this great tool we have. But most people stop there for their personal selves. But for other brands, there's always this website, and website is a place you own online. So I told you over the break that, gosh, I am enjoying this conversation so much. You are so great to talk to. Uh, I love your podcast. But if you, if I, um, got a text message right now on my phone that said your identity's been stolen. Come to the police department. I'd be like, I'm so sorry, I have to go. Yeah, and we'd shut this down, right? We don't protect our identity online. Most people don't own their own URL. And we spend over eight hours a day on average online. If we're professionals, that means if we eat, sleep, go to the bathroom, we're online more than we are in person. So we need to buy our own URL, we need to bring our thought leadership over to our own website. So I always say, say, start on social media, make your weekly thought leadership posts for two or three months. Then you have eight to 12 nice things to bring over to your a blog on your website, make a simple homepage. Simple websites convert better. More information actually slows people down. And when you convert, what you want to do is you want to put a sign up list, a subscribe list so that you get emails and phone numbers that you own. So then if a CEO in Silicon Valley, which I'm like an hour and a half from here, um, decides they're going to change an algorithm and completely change how your audience works and views you, um, you are in control of these people and you're intimately connected. If someone opened up your email or if you had your email on your screen and I walked by and you were like, oh, I left that open and she saw my whole email inbox, you would feel a little more violated than if you had left a social media feed open.

Speaker A: That's true.

Speaker C: And so we, when people are in our personal space, we feel more connected to those brands. So that's very important.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, go ahead, please, please finish, finish.

Speaker C: As far as, as far as the social media goes, I think a lot of people think it's so overwhelming because I have to be on all these platforms, right? I always tell people, start with LinkedIn and grow from there. You can, and I go against the grain when I say this. Everyone says each, each platform has its own little thing. I have a formula where you do that face to camera video lead in that I told you to do before the break for each thing saying, today I'm going to talk to you about this, then you have that written post. Um, if you do that, you can do that for any platform because the one thing that the algorithm, um, does not control is information that helps people, that they get the result and then they trust you. And then they click again and again and again. That kind of information, that helpful shareable information that's algorithm proof for any platform and that is the thing that the algorithm rewards the most for every platform. Because, because the companies know that that's what keeps people on their platform when they're getting help and when they realize that they're getting value from the platform. And so you can start with LinkedIn because that's where you're going to see a lot of professionals. But you can do the same thing on Instagram, you can do the same thing on these other platforms that you then expand to. And if you're really good at a platform that you're already on, cool, keep doing it.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: You know, but um, don't worry so much about the platform because you're algorithm proof when you help people.

Speaker A: Mhm. Let's, let's talk about being authentic when you do this. So you're doing thought leadership and you're doing it um, like you're, you, you had your little thing with the airport and stuff. Um, I'm seeing a lot, especially in Gen Z and I don't want to touch, throw everybody under the bus in the same pot here. Okay, um, the use of AI. Okay, um, and uh, I'll just give you a quick story. I saw, I was reading a, um, an email from a 23 year old German, um, the other day and I'm an English native speaker and I speak four languages, but I'm an English native speaker and I looked at it and I knew exactly that was done with AI. Okay. Um, I mean to me I have something really against that because if you want to be authentic and you want your brand, then you have to be authentic. What's um, your, you know, what's your suggestions and thoughts about that? Especially to the younger generation that is grabbing to AI all the time for help.

Speaker B: Help.

Speaker C: Yep. I love AI for help. I hate AI for answers. Here's what I mean. Yeah, so, and I'm so glad you're touching on this because AI, it's so interesting. So AI now we can prompt AI by asking it questions or by, by asking it to do things. And the people that ask AI to do things, they're going to get the Same answer because AI, Claude and ChatGPT get 2.55 billion queries a day. That's great market research that we've never had. That's all this free knowledge of people asking questions. And so then we go and we act like everybody else. We say, write me this. Right? And no wonder, you know, we all sound the same because it gives us the answer that it's supposed to give us because it's A machine. Right. So if I say, you know, do I eat dinner before dessert? It says yes.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: Right. And it doesn't go and say, well, you know, let's, let's bust that myth. Maybe you're too attached to food. If you rush through the dinner and you like, because you're excited about the dessert, this and that. Right. It doesn't go and it doesn't opine like that because it gives you the most common answer. People click away, it knows you're satisfied. That's the first paragraph you also see in Gemini, right. With all the points now smashed into it. Right. So your knowledge is smashed into a paragraph. It's categorized if you're simply competent or even excellent saying what everybody else says. So you need to earn your own line on AI. And what I mean by that is exactly the exercise we went through a moment ago, uh, in the previous segment where I said, what does everybody think? What's the real problem? Et cetera.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: If you can write that out first and then put it into AI and say, what am I missing here? Can you give me 20 more ideas like this, maybe even 40? It's a machine. You're not putting it out. And it gets 2.5 billion queries a day, it's going to tell you the counterintuitive things that maybe people ask about. Right. And you're going to get more ideas like, hey, I do that too. I think that way too. Yeah, that's exhilarating. So if everybody's a six before AI and all of a sudden they're asking AI to help them, they're going to get elevated to an 8. AI is going to make them sound a little more sophisticated in their sameness at first.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: But the key to remaining a 10 and rising above that noise is again to put your own thought into it first and then ask it to help you more. Ask it to help you think. Then by the time you land on something really cool, I always say, draft out the topic sentences, go ahead and then ask it to help you write if you want. But then it's going to have all this knowledge that's so distinct, all of a sudden you're using it as a tool. Email does send our mail faster.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker C: Right. But it doesn't replace the content on the sheet.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: I actually, um, have experimented with an agent for content creation because I'm launching in the fall and new digital content creation class in our MBA program program. And I am trying to figure out how to teach the students about agents for, you know, their Own content, their emails, et cetera. And I will tell you, um, I made that agent rules. I have 43 pages of rules. And one of the rules is only use what I've put in, like my voice, my emails, my content to make new content. Well, I can ask it to say, make a post related to whatever I've written about in the past and it will rework my past post. Because I said, you can't go out and find something random on random, right? Yeah. Then I uploaded this blog post that had like step one of something and then step two of something. Two separate posts. And I said, now try to make me step three. Based on my logic, it couldn't do it. It just reworded step 2m. But then when I wrote a few sentences about what step three was, it could do it and it sounded like me.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Now I told you, I live an hour and a half from Silicon Valley. These CEOs in Silicon Valley, they don't like say, oh, you know what, we can make AI learn all this stuff. Um, we're just holding it back to let people catch up. They don't do that. If they had the answer, they're launching it. Right, Right. AI had inductive reasoning, empathy, all the things that make us human and able to think better. Um, they would be doing it.

Speaker A: They would be doing it. Yeah, it would really.

Speaker C: I think we're in a place where we have more opportunity than ever before to think with AI. Just make sure you do that. Use it as that thinking partner because then you can go so much deeper.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's great advice. So, I mean, Vanessa, we're at the end. Um, one sentence from you for our listeners who, who, for. Who want to walk away here. One sentence. How you know, and, and really start thinking about their branding. What would be the first step to do?

Speaker C: Start before you're ready. Ready. And go back and make that video. That's the most nerve wracking part. But start before you're ready. And here's what I'll leave you with in 30 seconds. When you find that counterintuitive viewpoint which we talked about how on this, on this podcast, when you find that you're saying something new and that is a scary place to be, it's scary to be a pioneer. I mean, um, you know, uh, I grew up playing the Oregon Trail and I killed a lot of my oxen. Right. Because you don't know what's beyond the river.

Speaker A: Right, right, exactly.

Speaker C: And so that's scary. That's nerve wracking. It should feel scary. You should feel like an imposter. Use that as a signal because that's the information people want. That's what will gain trust for you. So start today, don't hold it back from people because you have that special knowledge.

Speaker A: Great, great encouragement and great final words. Um, and it's been a great conversation. We could go on for another hour so maybe uh, maybe next year we can catch up and try uh, to do another and see where you are with um, some of your new courses on, on content and everything else you're doing and teaching. But for our listeners, been talking to Vanessa Arakati and she has been, she's the author of Valuable and Visible Redefining Personal Branding by Leading with Impact Over Image, available online, published by While Wiley and you can go to her website also under Vanessa Eracate and that is is E-R-R-E-C-A-R-T-E.com and of course she's also on Facebook, Instagram and uh, LinkedIn. So please reach out to her. And this broadcast has been brought to you by cinda. And CINDA is one of Europe's largest non profit organizations uniting companies in digital marketing, local search, search technology and information services and E commerce. Um, they also do a lot of uh, advocate on digital um, policy within the European Union, regulatory insights. They also have conferences, the next conferences in my Bay of Spain in October 2026 and they have an executive insight for CEOs wanting to learn about online in other countries and that is in two weeks in Buenos Aires, Argentina. So again Vanessa, thank you so much and it was a great conversation and uh, let's try to do this again.

Speaker C: Thank you so much. I really enjoyed myself. Have a great day.

Speaker A: You too. And listeners, thank you for listening and please tune in again next week and with that have a great week.

Speaker B: Thank you for joining us on Leadership Beyond Borders. Please tune in again next Tuesday, Tuesday at 3:00pm U.S. pacific Time for another edition featuring your host, Kimberly J. Lewis on the Voice America Business Channel. Have a great week.