Insurance, You Indemnify Me: Season 4 Ep.1 Shannon Holtman, Co-Owner of JSH Insurance Solutions

Speaker A: Foreign,

Speaker B: Everybody. My name is Shawn Michael Walker, and this is the insurance you Indemnify me podcast. And today we have Shannon Holtman. I know you're looking at him thinking it's Jeff Holtman, but it's not. It's actually Shannon Holtman. You can tell because he's much more gray than Shannon. I mean, than Jeff. Right.

Speaker A: Just a little bit. Just a little bit. Appreciate.

Speaker B: But who could win in a fight?

Speaker A: Way to get us started.

Speaker B: Who could win in a fight?

Speaker A: Oh, actually, I hate to admit it, uh, now him, because, really. Well, he's a purple belt. Or he was a purple belt.

Speaker B: That's right.

Speaker A: So I found that out one time we were, uh, I think we were in Vegas or something. We were wrestling, and I, you know, always could beat my little brother up. All of a sudden. One time, uh, um, I didn't. I didn't. One time, uh, my strength and my big brother seniority didn't overcompensate, uh, his jiu jitsu, uh, training.

Speaker B: Right. You don't do any jiu jitsu. I thought you did for some reason. Okay, so that was his thing.

Speaker A: That was his thing, yeah. So unfortunately, or fortunately, you are physically

Speaker B: larger than him, though.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But a jiu jitsu guy is, uh, has usually got the upper hand.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Okay. I remember my brother, like, left the house for a couple years and moved away, and we hadn't seen each other for a long time. He came back when he was like, 21, maybe 22, and I had had, like a, like a puberty growth spurt. So his little itty bitty brother, I'm five years younger than him, and I would always just get pounded by him. And, uh, by the time he came back, I'd hit a little bit of a growth spurt, and I saw I was like 16 or 17 now or whatever the numbers equal. And he came home and was like, it's time. It's time you. You suffer a little bit. I think. I think we scrapped. I think we got into it and he was like, holy crap. My little brother is no longer somebody I should fool around with. So there's always that. That moment.

Speaker A: Yeah. I hate to say it, uh, but, yeah, that moment was like. I said, I think we were wrestling in Vegas and wrestling around the. Yeah.

Speaker B: He's like, let me teach you what an arm lock is.

Speaker A: And he got me in some arm lock or something again. I was always used to being over to overpower him. I'm like, that didn't quite work. I think I ended up tapping out Getting choked or something. Okay, maybe you weren't, like, four drinks

Speaker B: in and he's, like, tapping you out. You're like, that's. No.

Speaker A: At least you're on my team. So we're all good.

Speaker B: That's right. I'd like. Before we get started, I'd like to say I really love your shirt. That's a beautiful, beautiful shirt. I don't know where you might have gotten it from, but it's. It's good stuff.

Speaker A: Some cool dude gave it to me one time, asked if I wanted to wear it. I said, maybe once I'll pull it

Speaker B: out of my closet.

Speaker A: Part of the cool kid club.

Speaker B: Yeah, very cool. Um, and then just real quickly, before we leave, Jiu Jitsu. Uh, I did Jiu Jitsu back in Dallas. I used to live in Dallas.

Speaker A: You did? Okay.

Speaker B: And, uh. But I did it for, like, half a second with a bunch of suburban guys, so it's not like we really did it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, but, uh, I remember wrestling with this little guy who was, like, maybe 150 pounds, you know? And, um. And I'm like, this is a joke. Come on. I'm. I'm, like, way bigger than this guy. And, uh, it only took him a couple seconds to. To. To put my ankle into an ankle lock. And so he had me all busy working, uh, up here, like, with him physically, uh, with all of our upper body limbs, and out of nowhere, my. My lower body was like, ow, okay. Tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. You know? And I'm like, how on earth.

Speaker A: It's crazy.

Speaker B: Do you lock up an ankle and make somebody tap from that perspective? And I think from that moment on, I was like, I'm in. Like, there's obviously chess moves here going on that I just don't understand. So. Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I've always kind of said, hey, I might do that. And I just never got into it.

Speaker B: I would. I would encourage you not to do that because, uh, I would come home with, like, a split lip or, like, maybe not a black eye, but like a bruise or like something on my neck. And, like, professionally, people are like, what are you doing at night? Fight club, man. Just. Which is furthest thing from the truth. But it was like, uh, you just get beat up pretty good. Yeah. I don't know if Jeff gets beat up pretty good, but, like, you come

Speaker A: home and you're like, oh, my shoulder. Yeah, I'm sure he did. He stopped doing it for a while, and he keeps saying he's gonna get back into it, but yeah.

Speaker B: All right, cool. Let's stop talking about him. Who is Shannon Holman? Where'd you come from? Background. All that kind of stuff.

Speaker A: Um, background. So I was born in California.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: San, um, Fernando Valley area. Kind of Reseda. Karate Kid is the claim to fame, so people say. Where were you born? Where Karate Kid was, uh, made. Yeah. Lived, ah, out there till I was 10. Uh-huh. Moved to Colorado. Parents? I had two younger brothers. Yeah. Um, when we moved out to Colorado

Speaker B: when I was 10.

Speaker A: So quasi native. I call myself a quasi native. Right. Been here since 10. So, uh, that's more or less, I'd

Speaker B: say You're a native.

Speaker A: Yeah, but I had those first 10 years running the. Running the cul de sac in California.

Speaker B: Yeah. Right.

Speaker A: Um, so that's. That's kind of the background. Been here in, uh, kind of southeast Denver area for. Since 1980. Forever.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, and insurance was right out of college. Like, when did you do insurance?

Speaker A: Insurance.

Speaker B: Did you go to, ah, north. Northern Colorado as well?

Speaker A: Not northern Colorado. I did. I call it the, uh, the Tour de Colorado.

Speaker B: Okay. I like it.

Speaker A: I went to my first year Northeastern Junior College, which is in the Northeastern. It's up in Sterling.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, actually, I played tennis up there for a year. Really? Which is kind of crazy because I wasn't a tennis player, so. Kind of, kind of crazy. I was a baseball and basketball. I played baseball and basketball growing up. Um, that's wild. My junior year of high school, though, I wanted to play. I always wanted to play football. My parents never let me. They didn't want me to get hurt. Yeah, I was pretty good baseball players. We don't want you to mess up baseball.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Was, uh, going to play football my junior year. Got hurt. I had a trailer that summer fall on my big toe and broke the toe. So I couldn't participate in all the summer football stuff. So I was bored. That fall, good buddy was playing tennis. He sold me his tennis racket and I started playing tennis. So I.

Speaker B: Interesting.

Speaker A: Made the varsity team my, uh, junior year. Never played before. I thought I was going to go to college, play baseball. That didn't quite work out. It's like, okay, what am I going to do? My tennis coach knew the tennis coach up. Up in Sterling.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Said, hey, we can get you to go up there.

Speaker B: Interesting.

Speaker A: Okay. So I went up there for a year. Sterling's a small town. Tennis was. It was fun, but it wasn't my gig or anything, so I didn't love it. Um, after a year I had some friends that were going to Western State College in Gunnison.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I wasn't heard with, hey, mountains and ski and.

Speaker B: Yeah, I've heard that's actually a lot of fun up there.

Speaker A: Like, hey, maybe I'll go to Gunnison.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So I ended up transferring. So that's why I call it Tour de Colorado, because I went from the northeast part of the state to the Western Slope. Uh, and I did Gunnison for two and a half years and skied and, um, did a ton of intramurals and had a great time.

Speaker B: Yeah. Dropped tennis and said, let's go.

Speaker A: Yeah, I stopped playing tennis. Like I said, that was never really a passion. It was just kind of something I did for.

Speaker B: And that's when you started your risk management degree?

Speaker A: No, exactly. Exactly. It's exactly like, hey, I'm gonna get in this insurance.

Speaker B: Insurance gotta be worth it. Yeah, I'm.

Speaker A: I'm gonna do that.

Speaker B: You were skiing down the mountain going, it's gotta be insurance.

Speaker A: It's gotta be. It's gotta be.

Speaker B: So, uh, when did insurance become a thing?

Speaker A: So I ended up, um. I was gonna. I didn't really know what I really wanted to do, but I thought. I thought I wanted to teach and coach. I love athletics. I love sports. Yeah. Um, so I was. My first couple years of college, I was a kinesiology major. I was going to teach and coach. Okay. Then, um, I decided, okay, that's great, but I really don't want to teach math. I really don't want to teach soul. What am I going to teach, right? Uh, P.E. well, it's not a whole lot of money, uh, being a PE teacher. So I changed my major to a business major. Got a marketing degree. Still not really knowing what I wanted to do, but kind of started at that point, like, hey, sales something. Wasn't a great entrepreneur per se, but something where, you know, you got a little bit more control of your income. Still, um, didn't know what I was going to do, but leaning towards, hey, maybe a sales type background. So, no, insurance was still not on the gig. Uh, I graduated college. I ended up transferring to Metro.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker A: Uh, after I left Gunnison, transfer the Metro again.

Speaker B: I love that campus.

Speaker A: Tour de Colorado.

Speaker B: What years were you at Metro? That. That. Because that campus, like, really got gorgeous in the last 20 years.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it started. It was decent then, and we had a good time. I was there, though, early 90s, so I was there 91 through 93.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, but we had a good time. We had a Group of friends that, you know, my high school buddies, a lot of guys were going down there. We set up in the middle of campus, uh, volleyball net.

Speaker B: The Trivoli Center.

Speaker A: Is that what it's called? Yep. That was a student union, so we had a good time. So I ended up graduating in Metro. And my first job after I graduated was actually, uh, selling windows and siding.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: So I, you know, again, not 100 sure what I was going to do. Had a marketing degree. No. Probably get into sales of some sort. Uh, I was kind of leaning towards. I wanted to get on as a manufacturer rep for, like, Nike or a sporting goods brand. Kind of leaning into, you know, the sports background. Um, I had. Did an internship at KOA Radio. Okay. So I was their promotions, uh, guy.

Speaker B: Interesting. That's funny.

Speaker A: Ever. Did you ever go way back when to, like, um, Bronco games, CU games. Games, Rockies games? There was KOA Radio, obviously broadcasting. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: They always would have pre game, you know, tailgates and booths. And they had a big blow up gorilla. This thing was probably 30ft tall.

Speaker B: I remember that.

Speaker A: That was my job.

Speaker B: Wow. I set that to blow up the gorilla.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So I got to drive around in koa. Uh, Hummer. Back when the Hummer was. It was like the military.

Speaker B: Right, right, right. The old school.

Speaker A: The old school. And. And the cool thing was I'm a college kid, love sports. I got free tickets. Now, of course, I had to work the first part of it, right. But I got free tickets to every CU game, every Rockies game, all the Broncos games. So I would set that gorilla, uh, work, do the promotion.

Speaker B: Purple gorilla, right?

Speaker A: It was. Yeah, it was take it down. Uh, and then by the third or fourth inning or second quarter or whatever it was, then I jump in the game. Clean it all up and jump in the game. But all that being said, nothing really materializes a manufacturer's wrap. So. Yeah, got a job selling windows and siding. Go figure. Hey, whatever. But it was out.

Speaker B: You know, every cool brand was out. And you're like, okay, now when it's.

Speaker A: That's exactly it. So that was that path and windows and siding. I'll tell you what, man. It was, uh, we did like, um, one week out of town, small rural towns. Uh, they'd send us up to Wyoming or Burley, uh, parts of Colorado, whatever. Um, three weeks in town kind of stuff. And yeah, they had a phone room m. That would set us appointments.

Speaker B: Yeah. And then you go show up.

Speaker A: We got thrilled. Graded on. Did we get in the house? Did we give a presentation did we give the ten step presentation?

Speaker B: Right, right.

Speaker A: It was hardcore sales. Yeah. Um, so it was great learning experience.

Speaker B: I was going to say it sounds like a killer learning experience. Experience.

Speaker A: Yeah. I didn't know at the time. Right. And I made good.

Speaker B: A lot of people fall into the sales, uh, profession and they get no, like official training. Right. They get no, um, no, like this is exactly how you should sell and how the process should unfold. So that's pretty cool that you got that.

Speaker A: They had a very structured process and Monday morning sales meetings. I mean, it was a little boy room. Boiler Roomish. Um, it was a little old school. Um, and you got, you got your butt chewed if you know, your numbers weren't good or come up with some excuses like, oh, they said they weren't interested. Bs, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's a lame excuse. Your jobs to make them interested. It was that environment. I believe it.

Speaker B: I totally believe it. But that's, that's kind of healthy. Like if sales is going to be your life, how okay is it to have like a chapter of that first sales, you know, introduction to sales be a little bit boiler room.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, it was again, they were very, they had a very structured sales process. Process. Very, very structured process. And sure enough, believe it or not, looking back, if you follow the process, you're gonna have more success than not. Right, right. And crazy enough, if we were selling, you know, walk into somebody's house that was barely interested and you're walking out with a fifteen thousand dollar new vinyl siding commitment.

Speaker B: Right, right, right.

Speaker A: Um, and they needed it. It wasn't like you were, you know, fraudulently, you know, whatever, or new windows, whatever it may be. So I made good money.

Speaker B: But, uh, for all the window and sighting people listening, because there's like a big sub culture.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, I need new windows pretty badly. So come, uh, find me and walk me through the ten step process.

Speaker A: I'm getting new windows here soon as.

Speaker B: Well, you probably got yours because of the last hailstorm, though.

Speaker A: That's why I'm gonna get.

Speaker B: Yeah, right.

Speaker A: Because I have my original ones and they got pretty beat up. Yeah.

Speaker B: Recently.

Speaker A: So I'm in that process.

Speaker B: All right. Uh, so you're going through that.

Speaker A: Went through that, did that about a year. Got engaged during that period of time. Realized that was not long term career, not what I wanted to do long term. My, uh, fiance at the time. Well, same to my wife today. Um, her dad was very successful real estate agent in town. My dad was a mortgage broker.

Speaker B: Okay. This is like a natural Fit.

Speaker A: Okay, what am I going to do? I'm 24 years old now. I'm going to get married next year. Started talking. Yeah, gotta start getting real. This windows and sighting gig is I'm making money, but it's not the deal. Yeah. Um, my father in law kind of was the biggest influencer of getting in the insurance business because I was leaning at that point towards real estate. Real estate's, you know, a little fancy, has a little glamour. Yeah, I knew a couple guys. Uh, he was making good money. I mean, early 90s. He's making 2, 300 grand a year, doing really well. And he told me, hey, Shannon, I'll help you if you want to get into the real estate business.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, but I want you to look at insurance. Yeah, insurance. I mean, I didn't know much about insurance at 25 years old. I paid my car insurance, right? Yeah. Why? Number one thing was residual income.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. I said I made good money, but next month I'm back at zero. Next year I'm back at zero. Yeah, I get referrals, but, yeah, you know, so he goes, I know people in the insurance industry that make the same kind of money I do, but, uh, they don't have to work as hard once they build it. Right. The residual income aspect, again, being somewhat young, like, okay, what are my opportunities? What am I going to do? I guess I'll give this insurance gig a try.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So that was kind of the intro to insurance.

Speaker B: And so how did you get to farmers? Was that the first thing that came and landed on your plate, or like, how did you explore the world of insurance and decide farmers was the right place for me? I assume you accidentally fell backwards into farmers, but, uh, that. That would be a nasty assumption.

Speaker A: That's a pretty good assumption.

Speaker B: I would.

Speaker A: I'd say you got. I'd say, you know, this business, you know how this stuff works.

Speaker B: Some. Somebody came and said, hey, I'll give you a shot. And you're like, great, I'll take it.

Speaker A: Uh, you know how this game works. So. Yes. I had a buddy that was at American Family.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I applied there. They wouldn't hire me because I was young, didn't have any money and no experience. Yeah, yeah, Applied, um, a couple other places. Uh, didn't have great luck. I applied to a newspaper ad for. From a farmer's dm.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A: And, you know, they had their reserve agent training program, and then they called it a career agent program. And they do all the training and blah, blah, blah, blah. The one caveat Was you had to have $5,000 in your bank account to get started. Just to show that you had a little bit of financial ability to get started. Um, well, I didn't have five grand. Yeah, so you said, guess what? I went to my parents and my parents didn't have an extra five grand. I mean they, you know, we grew up not having a whole lot of extra money. I mean we had food on the table for sure, but we didn't have a lot of extra. Yeah, like I don't know that we got an extra five grand to float.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: So I went to my father in law and he had five grand. I said, hey man, once I, I just got to show it to him, M. And, and you know, whatever. And then, you know, down the road, I don't know the timeline. Yeah, I'll give it back to you. And he was cool. So I got the five grand, got

Speaker B: hired, still never giving it back.

Speaker A: I gave it back to him. Okay. I gave back to my four months later. Obviously once I got on board, uh, you know, met all the crit, all the like, you're hitting all your goals.

Speaker B: They kind of like me here, you can have your back.

Speaker A: Exactly. Maybe four to five months later.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Good. So, yes, I kind of fell into farmers by again, I didn't do a ton of due diligence and research, but they were the only company that hired me in that, you know, short period of time.

Speaker B: Yeah. And how long were you there?

Speaker A: So I was there 20 total.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: 26 ish. 27 years.

Speaker B: That's incredible. And you. So you oscillated back and forth. Well, you're gonna have to like keep me honest. But you, you were an agent, then you went to like dm? Um, did you go back to agency ownership? Like it walk us through like the full 26 years?

Speaker A: I did. So I started, um. Well, I tell you, I went on the career program October of 95.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: Was an agent. Um, so I started a scratch agency. Yeah, yeah, I got a couple policies assigned to me during that period of time. Yeah, you know, actually when I first started there was an agent. You know where East Lake Colorado is?

Speaker B: Uh, I've seen signs for East Lake Colorado maybe in my life.

Speaker A: Small little subsection up in Thornton.

Speaker B: Okay, got it.

Speaker A: And it still exists today. There's a post office, there's a bar, there's like a, a quarter mile main street. Um, but way back in the early 90s, there's a stop sign. Um, and anyways, uh, when I first got started, I Was having some success. I got stuff off to a fast start. I leveraged. Uh, part of that was my dad being in the mortgage business, and he was able to get me some, uh, title record stuff. So I got title record, um, X dates, essentially, and that was kind of what got me going. And. And anyways, I had some success. My district manager said, hey, I've got an agent up in Eastlake, and I mind you, I live in southeast Aurora at the time. And we didn't have C470. Right. He's got 300 policies, and I want him to retire in October. Uh, but he's kind of done now. If you go up there and run it. If you go up there and run his office, we'll assign the policies to you.

Speaker B: Interesting.

Speaker A: So I had, like, an hour commute, uh, and I didn't know any better, but I just knew that you do what you got to do. Right. Like 300 policies. That sounds pretty good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I made that commute. So I had an office in Eastlake, Colorado, uh, um, for about a year. Wow. Um, and then moved back down into his district office, actually. So long. Anyway, I started that scratch agency, Had a few policies assigned to me, did that. Started having some success, Started winning some toppers clubs, uh, awards, Traveled more honestly that first six years with farmers and winning trips than I ever did growing up. Because growing up, our trips were, let's hop in the car and go camping or hop in the car and drive back to California.

Speaker B: Right, right, right.

Speaker A: Um, so in 2003, ish. Uh, um, pharmacists started talking to me about, hey, do I want to, um, look at being a district manager? And I had started speaking at some of the, you know, panel members at some of the events, and. And I enjoy that. Right. That probably goes back to that coaching. Yeah, yeah. Mentality. Um, so in 2004, I became a district manager.

Speaker B: Very cool. Very cool. And how was that? Did you like that time?

Speaker A: I did.

Speaker B: Uh, what are the. What are the unique challenges of a district manager that, uh, that aren't the same challenges as the agent? So you. You. You. You shifted from agency owner over to district manager, where you're like, yes, this is the greatest thing on earth. Are we like, oh, my gosh, I'm recruiting a bunch of weirdos that, uh. This is so rough. You know, I. I guess what I'm trying to say is, yes, the answer to your question.

Speaker A: I'll let you finish. But the answer is yes.

Speaker B: I've met a lot of district managers that are like, I loved it. Yes, absolutely. Uh, it's good money. Yes, absolutely. And it has its own headaches and its own problems. Yes, absolutely. And in. And you're wrestling and struggling to make that money. It's not necessarily easier money than like insurance agency owner money. It's just different challenges. So can you speak to that in any way? I don't know what the question is.

Speaker A: The short answer is yes. Yes, and yes, you are correct. Uh, but, yeah, a lot of coaching, right? A lot of coaching. So the biggest difference, um, and I wasn't going to do it when they first approached me, I mean, I had. Was having some good success with the agency. My wife, actually I had two young kids at the time. So my daughter was born in 2000, my son in 2002. Wife, uh, actually she helped me in the agency first get started. Then when she had the kids, she's like, okay, I'll see you later. Good luck. And became a stay at home mom. But I had the ability, luckily, financially to do that. Um, so anyway, sorry. Um, so life is good, right? I'm making more money I ever made and kind of running my own gig. And I hired my little brother. Jeff had, uh, worked. He's working with me. We're having a good time. So, like, I do, I want to do this district manager thing, but there was, there was also a certain level of prestige that went with that. I knew district managers that were making good money as well and they had a better contract. So I'm m. Like, well, I can sell my agency to my brother. Right. And that's a win for him and do this district manager thing. So that's what I made the decision and got it. My. I talked to a lot of people and kind of goes back to answer your question, one of my district manager buddies, kind of mentor, he said, shannon, the biggest difference is do you want to be a player or do you want to be a coach?

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A: And like, okay, I get that. I guess here we go. Back to coach. Right? Uh, and back to one of your questions in the question. The, uh, challenges. The biggest difference is when you know, when you're the agency owner, when you're the player, you control how hard you work out. You control your own individual results for the most part. Right. There's some extenuating factors, but you're in control when you're the coach. You got to get results through other people.

Speaker B: Right? Right.

Speaker A: And as we all know, some other people are awesome.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Some other people are awesome when they get a little leadership.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And some Other people just aren't awesome at all. And your results as a coach and as a district manager are reflect reflective on their collective results. Right. Your quota, your job hinders on their results.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: That's. It was fun, but it was challenging. That's the tricky part. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Interesting. And so what geographic area in Denver were you DM over? I. I'm always confused over that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because I. I know some DMS in Denver and I'm always like, who has what freaking territory?

Speaker A: There is no territory. That's why you're confused. Thank you.

Speaker B: Always, like, who is where? Like, where are the lines? I get all these agents. You get all those agents. Uh, we'll take it that way. There's no territory.

Speaker A: No. No territory. So they. That's. That's why the biggest, I guess, division of territory was they had a couple. Now, when I first started back in 2004, there was, like, 27 district managers in Colorado. Oh, okay. And there was.

Speaker B: And it's basically go out there.

Speaker A: There was a couple in Fort Collins and Loveland. So it was kind of recognized that that was their territory. They're Northern Colorado. There was a couple in the Springs that was kind of recognizing, hey, Springs are these guys. There was two in Pueblo. So it's like, hey, Pueblo's yours. And that kind of extended to, um, you know, some of the Western Slope stuff. And then There was probably 15 of us in Denver. I see maybe 10 to 12, whatever the number is. And all of us, at that point, it's like we're stumbling, um, on each other. Yeah. At that point, it was, recruit all you want. We're all fishing in the same pond.

Speaker B: Interesting.

Speaker A: Then you kind of. And these are all your friends. Yeah, sure, they're your peers, but you're also getting judged very heavily.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: On results. So we're stepping on each other's toes. And.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, all the. Being friends. But it's. Keep your friends close. You know, Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer. Not that they're enemies, but it was a weird dynamic. But, uh, it was sales. It was sales.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So it. Yeah.

Speaker A: But it was cool, though, because.

Speaker B: Yeah. And so I never knew that. I'm always sitting there, like, I know this guy, but what geographic territory does he own? Like, I don't understand where his agents are, but, uh, I guess that answers the question there.

Speaker A: And they tried to, you know, they tried to keep it where. Okay. If I was a Denver DM M. My agents were in Denver. But you always had outliers because Just like in agency, there's always, you know, hey, district manager left. And there was. When they combined, there was this agent that was in Greeley, and he got assigned to a Denver DM or whatever it may be. So there's always outliers, but for the most part, they tried to keep agents that were in Denver assigned to Denver dms, agents in Springs assigned to Springs dms. Yeah. And that was kind of the territory.

Speaker B: Got it. Thank you for answering that question for me, because that one has always been like, what is going on here? Um, so the next question is, is, um, what makes a agent a winning agent? Like, what makes an agent a killer agent? What did you look for? Maybe, uh, you know, you obviously coached a lot of agents, which I. Which, uh, is very, very respectable. What. What made a winning agent?

Speaker A: That's a great question. Right. A lot of variables. So if I had to kind of think back and you look at it, first and foremost is work ethic. Right. And that's something that was, you could very hard from an interview process to decipher. But I mean, I think we all know it. One factor is how hard is somebody willing to work. Right. Um, how hard is somebody willing to grind this business, especially in the beginning. It's a grind business. It's a work business. Right. You can overcome a lot of deficiencies, but through work.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A: You can also underperform through lack of work. Um, so that was hard. But you would look at. I liked athletes. Um, I liked folks that had prior success in sales jobs. Um, um, that worked. Not typical nine to five jobs, because that if you want to work nine to five in this industry, especially back then, and trying to get started, you know, you can maybe do it a little bit more so today. But not back then. Right? Back then it required a lot of evening appointments and, you know, you had to be a hustler. Right. So being a hustler was. And working hard was one of those intangibles. Uh, but you tried to. You try to make it a tangible asset. Right. College athletes, guys and gals that had discipline structure, been through the grind a little bit, would typically have more success. Right. I saw some folks that would say,

Speaker B: also people who have been coached, like, I'm with you. A, uh, college athlete, been in the weight room, did the right eating plan, listen, but, you know, went and played, were cool and calm under stress and all that kind of stuff. Uh, but would you also be like, I like them just because they've been coached before and they're going to have to be coached again by me in the future.

Speaker A: Yeah, I would say not even necessarily being coached, but willing to be coachable. Okay, right. I mean, if they didn't, if they weren't as a coach before, but they're willing to be coachable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then that was valuable. Yeah, for sure. Versus somebody that, you know, I had people that before, you know, great talent, great. All the tools of success. But one, lack of work ethic and two, maybe a little bit too much. I know it all, do it my way.

Speaker B: It's everybody else's fault.

Speaker A: It's everybody else's fault.

Speaker B: Whatever. Right.

Speaker A: Not coachable.

Speaker B: Dangerous. Dangerous in a sales.

Speaker A: Tough for those folks to, you know, and you can see a lot of the times those folks be successful for a short period of time. But as we know, this business is a marathon business. Right. So, um, yeah, coachable was probably a better way to look at it.

Speaker B: Interesting.

Speaker A: Um, and then, you know, if you took it a step further, I'd say folks that had good communication skills tend to be more successful. Folks that are likable. Um, folks that, you know, had community involvement and enjoyed. People enjoy relationships. I mean, we're at the core of it. We're relationship business. Later on, not so much back then you can have some folks that maybe they weren't great at those things, but they were awesome at systems and processes. They could be successful with high lead volume generation, you know, buying Internet leads. Sure, that wasn't necessary case when I first started, but, and that's a rarity that someone can have those problems. But they certainly can.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So it's, you know, community involvement, building relationships, likable, trustworthy, dependable.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Work hard, put all those things together and uh, hey, we might have something.

Speaker B: Yeah, I like all of that. That's really good. It's always interesting to me to see like who succeeds and who doesn't succeed. And usually it comes down to like this grit factor, this, this I'm willing to do anything it takes to succeed factor, you know, so like I meet a lot of agents, agency owners that are like, Yeah, I started two or three years ago, I'm now a $4 million book of business, but I haven't taken a vacation in the first four years. And it's like that's that grind grit factor where they're just like, I know I have to get there before I relax, you know. And uh, and that's usually when I'm like, okay, we got ourselves somebody who's going to make it in this business. Because we know for A fact. You know, they've set a goal, 500 policies or 500 clients or whatever, however you want to manage it, and just go, I'm not relaxing until I hit that goal. You know, I'm not going on vacation. I'm not. I'm not taking my pedal off, my foot off pedal until. Until I hit that goal, you know? So, uh, yeah. Interesting. Although it's always interesting. I'm sure you can think of examples of this, but it's always interesting to me where you're like, this will be interesting to see if this person makes it, you know, and then. And then they, like, blow you away and they make it and you're like, wow, I would have not put my money on that horse. Uh, but they just come out of nowhere and they're going, yeah, uh, I figured out another way to have success and do this.

Speaker A: Uh, which is always the wild cards. Yeah. Right. We would play those games, you know, behind the scenes a little bit with DM, you know, with a pure DMs and with our sales managers, you know, hey, I'm not sure. Whatever. And it'll be interesting to see how

Speaker B: this guy makes it.

Speaker A: You always had the surprises both ways, right? Yeah. Somebody you thought was a rock star.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: And didn't make it.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: And then there's other external factors. Right. What is their financial situation? Right. What's their financial one? Right. What's their financial situation? Situation. What's their family life? What kind of support do they have?

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: What kind of, you know, what are the obligations at home? Right. Let's face it. Uh, you know, all of those factors.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Come into play.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I just. I think insurance is so incredible because. Because. Because there's so many people having so much success in their own way.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: That you're like, how did that person get this done? How did they get. How did they make it work? They don't fit the normal mold, and yet they're still making, you know, 400, 500, $600,000 a year.

Speaker A: And you're like, it's crazy.

Speaker B: You're not.

Speaker A: It's crazy. You don't even have to be that good to make money in this business.

Speaker B: That's my point.

Speaker A: That's my point. It's true.

Speaker B: You don't even know. And. And yet they just grind it out and grind it out and grind it out and grind it out until they're making $600,000 a year and you're going, wow. I wouldn't have. I wouldn't have expected that from yeah. You know, so it's just.

Speaker A: It's pretty cool, right? I mean, that's always very. That's the cool factor.

Speaker B: That's like, that's like the, uh. That's, that's, that's. The point is, like, it's always cool to see who makes it in insurance and then go, wow, uh, I, I. That's just incredible.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then. And then how they made it. Right. It's not always just grinding. It's like the, the person who doesn't like talking to people, and you're like, that's not gonna work. But then they figure out processes and systems where you're like, wow, you figured out a way to make it work without talking to people. I have no idea how you did that. Yeah.

Speaker A: But I've seen it too. I've seen it too.

Speaker B: So it's. It's really fun to see how many different ways it works.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's cool.

Speaker B: Yep. Okay, um, let's get into a couple things. Um, in your agency, specifically. So you're in an agency with your brother, back together with your brother.

Speaker A: Full circle. Yeah, full circle. I hired him way back when, and now technically, kind of, he hired me. Yeah. So we joke about that. Yeah.

Speaker B: Let's just review a couple of things. Uh, tech stack in the agency. So, like, the technology you guys use in the agency, what are you guys using?

Speaker A: We use, uh, easily, obviously. Yep. That's easy one. And we don't use easy links, probably, to its full capabilities. Um, sure. But, you know, we use notes, tasks, and the normal stuff.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, then we supplement that with levitate. Is kind of our.

Speaker B: What is that?

Speaker A: Mainstream Levitate is similar to agency Zoom.

Speaker B: Okay. So it's, uh, your CRM.

Speaker A: It's our CRM. Yeah. I mean, you got levitate, you got agency Zoom, you got agency elephant. I mean, you know, similar type. Deal. So we run levitate. Gives us the ability to. For all our, like, automation.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So we got a lot of automation pipelines and stuff going on.

Speaker B: Did you guys build that all out? Which of the brothers built that all out?

Speaker A: Because we kind of both did. Yeah. So actually we had Jason, because I'm

Speaker B: not good at any of that.

Speaker A: I'm not great. Uh, yeah, tech is. Tech is very important to know that we need to use it. Uh, we got to use some basic things. We do some things, but I'm certainly not a tech guy.

Speaker B: So Jason came and said, hey, guys, let me help you.

Speaker A: So my brother Jeff was using agency. Okay, got it. When I came on, he was using agency. Elephant. And it was a matter of he was gonna. About to get me an account, show m me how to start using it. And then he goes, man, I started using this thing four years ago. I'm not even sure if I know how to teach you how to use it. I just do it. Okay, well, that's not very helpful. Uh, at the time, Jason had, um, was using Agency Zoom, and he thought it was a little too complicated for his operation, so he had switched. I don't know how he came across Levitate, but he switched to Levitate, said, hey, this is a same concept, but easier system.

Speaker B: Got it.

Speaker A: They have a lot of content. Um, in addition to automation and marketing, they do a lot of content stuff as well, where you can pull blogs and pull content and mass email your clients and all that good stuff. It was relatively easy to use. So we started checking that out, went through the demo, the whole nine yards. And I'm. I told Jeff, I'm like, hey, dude, I'm new here. This, uh, looks pretty cool. Both pricing was about the same. Or do you want to teach me elephant? Because you like elephant. You're having success with it, right? And he goes, let's do this route.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so we went that route.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, and it's worked. It's worked.

Speaker B: So, uh, like, you automated emails. Like, you bind a policy and an automated email goes out, um, a week later that says, hey, thank you for finding your.

Speaker A: Yeah. So we built an onboarding. There's five steps, right.

Speaker B: There's renewal's coming up.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like to talk to something like that.

Speaker A: Exactly. Yep.

Speaker B: Okay. Um, good. Uh, what else?

Speaker A: Ring Central is our phone system. Right. So void through Ring Central, we text through. Back through Levitate. So texting, uh, you know, so texting ability with clients is back through Levitate. Cool. Uh, stores everything in their client profile, the whole nine yards. Right. So now you got a. A data record of all this stuff. Got data record of all your email communication. Um, um, what else? Uh, we use Canopy Connect. Okay. That's a godsend. Ah. You know, from a Deck page accumulation. Um, I know I've heard of another

Speaker B: one that is like Canopy Connect. Um, I can't remember the name of it. It doesn't matter. But, uh, yeah, there's just multiple.

Speaker A: There's a new one that I.

Speaker B: Versions of Canopy.

Speaker A: Yeah. I did a demo on a new one recently. Recently because it was cheaper and they weren't going to charge you by the pools.

Speaker B: That's the one.

Speaker A: And now I'm trying to blank on their name as well, um, yeah, they

Speaker B: just charge you per pole.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So instead of having, you know, 100 poles a month or whatever Canopy Connect is. I don't even know what it is, but 50, uh, poles, whatever. Uh, yeah, it's just per.

Speaker A: Yeah. So it'd be cheaper, but the quality of their death pages and data wasn't as good.

Speaker B: Oh, okay.

Speaker A: And the other one. Okay, so again, canopy's not that expensive. It was kind of. Do I want to save 30 bucks a month and go to this new system that doesn't quite feel as good. I'm having success. It's not broken now we stick with Canopy.

Speaker B: I wonder if Jeff's, like, sitting back there being like, stop, stop, stop screwing with the crap I've already set up.

Speaker A: Like, why are you fooling around with this stuff?

Speaker B: No, bro, I found this other vendor.

Speaker A: Let's go look at a couple things. We're looking right now at Salt. Um, and we might switch over to Salt.

Speaker B: It's kind of a Canopy Connect thing as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. And they've got some integration, but they weren't fully integrated with Canopy, and they were doing their own pools.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: But I didn't like their pools, and again, I didn't know enough. So I'm not talking. Actually, it's on my to do list to go back and revisit.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Because I think Salt has some great benefits from what I know as well, um, from streamlining some intake processes. Um, so, yeah, we're constantly looking at stuff, but if I had to. Easy links, Levitate ring, Central Canopy is probably our core from a text perspective.

Speaker B: Good, good, good, good. But.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker B: So, uh, perfect. I heard you guys have gone down the VA road. Have you guys gone down the VA road?

Speaker A: We have gone down the va.

Speaker B: So what's up with that? Tell. Tell me about that experience.

Speaker A: So we picked it. Picked it up from Soup. Right. Attending the Soup Conference, which, uh, is agency, uh, va. Yes.

Speaker B: That's who you're using.

Speaker A: Yeah, we're using Agency va. We actually. We were. We demoed Cover Desk because I think Cover Desk was pretty popular a year ago, um, back when I first kind of came on board. Right. I didn't know what. I didn't know. Yeah, I don't know. Uh, whatever.

Speaker B: Where do we start? Yeah, let's start talking to people.

Speaker A: Yes, let's start talking to people.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So we started talking to people and then came across Agency VA through the Soup Conference.

Speaker B: Got it.

Speaker A: Met with those folks, went through the demos, were very impressed. Pricing structure made sense. You know, background and everything made Sense. So we started up. They've got two programs. They've got, like, what they call a reactive team, which is essentially just a quote team, uh, and a transaction team. Right. They'll do a few transactions. We mainly use them up for the quoting.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, they'll reshops, uh, and do business quotes. They'll do some certs and some miscellaneous stuff. Uh, um, and that's a thousand bucks a month for, like, 50 transactions. That sounds delightful. Yeah, delightful. You can eventually get your own va. Like, two grand a month.

Speaker B: I'm like, okay.

Speaker A: I've had employees my entire. Yeah. Previous career. I never had an employee for two grand a month. You know, or at least not a decent one. Sure, sure, sure. So, long story short, we started, and we're still using the reactive team. We'll probably, in January, February, ish. Go to a dedicated va. Um, don't

Speaker B: tell Wesley that, or else he'll. He'll be like, actually, it's 3,000 probably now. He's like, dang it. Why did I say that?

Speaker A: Yeah, you didn't hear that. Sorry.

Speaker B: He's not. We're not sure we're going that route yet.

Speaker A: You did. You didn't hear that.

Speaker B: We're just not sure we're going that route. No.

Speaker A: Reactive Team still have some concerns. Reactive Team works great so far, so. Okay, cool. Yeah, so we.

Speaker B: And so basically, you get a text message right now during the podcast. It's from a friend that says, hey, uh, I want a quote from you. And you go, great, I'll just give me all your information. I'll pop this over to the. The reactive team to quote this up for me.

Speaker A: Yeah, actually, one step other, uh, than that. I say. I say, great. Uh, um, hey, let me send you my canopy. You know, I got a secure portal.

Speaker B: Sure, sure.

Speaker A: That I use to gather information, make it easier on you. Um, all you got to do is log into your current account, push two buttons.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I send them the text or an email, depending on whatever. I get their deck pages. Send that over to the VA team. Yeah, VA team. Then we'll takes it from there. Takes it. And, you know, it's. It's kind of. In all honesty, it's. I would call a introductory admin assistant. Right, sure, sure. They're going to input all their. Do a lot of data entry, which I don't like doing. Um, great. So they get all the data entry into Easy Links. They go shop the top carriers. They send me back what they feel the top. Top, uh, rates. Yeah. Then I got to go in there and quote, unquote, clean it up. Right. Dial it in, clean it up. Make sure that, you know, most of the time the main data is right. Yeah. But you got to take it to that next level of problem solving coverages. And how am I going to sell this? Right. And what makes sense for the client. Right.

Speaker B: So, um.

Speaker A: But the initial leg works. All done.

Speaker B: So has the VA step in the agency been, like, life altering? Has it been like, oh, my gosh, like, life got dramatically better once we got the va, or is it like. Yes, it was a good step in the right direction?

Speaker A: I would say somewhere between good step in the right direction and life altering.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: If I didn't have to clean it up, it'd be life altering. But I don't know that I'll ever get away from that step. Right. Because I can go higher. I mean, I've had good employees.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And honestly, I'd still have to clean it. Still have to clean it up.

Speaker B: Especially your fingerprints.

Speaker A: Especially in today's marketplace. Right. Where there's so many limitations from the underwriting and carriers and all that. So it. It definitely would have to clean it up, but it's close to life altering. Yeah. I'd say just under that, life altering. Okay. I wouldn't. I wouldn't not do it. I wouldn't trade it. And it's good.

Speaker B: Yeah. Interesting. Very cool. Wesley's created something quite beautiful over there, so that's pretty neat.

Speaker A: Um, it's pretty cool because you can, you can scale, in my opinion. Like, if I visualize this thing out and where do I want to go and growth and all that. Yeah, you can scale now. So much easier and so much, so much larger of a profit margin.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, yeah. With the va. With the VA and using that. Right. You might. I mean, some people might be 100 VA. Sure. And then other people, I could probably see where there's a little bit of a mixture, but there's certainly a place for it.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know, it's interesting. Uh, we've been down the VA road, but, uh, but we've been down the VA road without the assistance of, like, a VA company. But we're just in the infancy stage of it all, so we're kind of like, figuring it all out, you know? And, um. And I, I don't even know where we're at with that. You know, I mean, we have a large organization here, so I don't know where we're at with that, but, Ah. But, um, but we've headed down that road, so I Think there's.

Speaker A: There's some value.

Speaker B: Yeah. I had a friend who was like, I don't even read my emails anymore. He's like, I just have my va. Read my emails, and they send me like, the three emails that I need to see. I'm like, man, Yeah. I swim through 250 emails a day.

Speaker A: Yeah. Can you imagine?

Speaker B: Beautiful would it be if I just got.

Speaker A: Yeah, it'd be probably hard a little bit to let that go. Right. Because you're like, fear of missing out. What am I missing? Uh, I mean, I know I would have that a little bit, but once you got rid of that and you got to that level.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Imagine how nice that would be.

Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. And not only that, but, like, it just free up my time to do more impactful things.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, and I'm a proponent and there's some value of having an employee, you know, that you can physically engage in like we are right now, and all those types of things. But again, I've had a lot of employees over time, and inevitably there's still a lot of distractions, A lot of whatever our experience. These VAs, man, they work. Yeah. They get after it.

Speaker B: That's cool.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's really cool.

Speaker B: Um, all right, we're on the back half of this thing now. Okay. Um, your secret sauce, like the Shannon Holtman secret sauce, where you're like, this is how I do it. And, uh, and I'm the best there is in the industry, so you should all copy this, if that exists.

Speaker A: That's. That's pretty steep. I'm a confident guy and I think I do a lot of good stuff. I don't know that I could say I'm the best in the industry.

Speaker B: Right. Whatever.

Speaker A: That's pretty.

Speaker B: But the thing where you're like, yeah, I do it this way. I do this. And, uh, and it's. This is. It doesn't fail me very frequently. This is how I do it.

Speaker A: I would say one. I don't have a secret sauce. So let's just. Let's just call it what it is.

Speaker B: Okay, good.

Speaker A: I don't have a secret sauce. Good.

Speaker B: That's. You're starting out correctly with this.

Speaker A: Yeah. Because as we know, there is no secret. Right. We've already identified. I've seen tons of people with a lot less talent and a, uh, lot more talent be successful.

Speaker B: Right. Sure.

Speaker A: And I've seen tons of people not be successful in both those arenas. Um, but what is the. It goes back to what we talked about. What makes a Successful agent.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I would say one show up.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Right. I think half the battle. I tell my kids this all the time. Show up.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You don't want to sometimes do the work. Yeah, do the work.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Show up. Right. If there's a networking meeting that you don't want to go to, because guess what? They all sound good until an hour beforehand and you're like, man, I really

Speaker B: don't want to go.

Speaker A: Man, I really got eight other things I got to do. And whether it's a networking meeting or a client meeting or an educational meeting.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: Show up.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And that's never failed me, honestly. And I look back and Jeff and I will talk. I went to a networking meeting on Saturday. You know, it's Labor Day weekend. Jeff was supposed to go with me. I'm throw him under the bus. He was up in Breckenridge. I didn't want to go. Yeah, thanks, Jeffrey. I didn't want to go, but we had made a commitment. Yeah. I went. Sure enough, I ended up meeting, uh, uh, one or two contacts that I'll probably follow up with, and one of them runs a bunch of charities. I'll probably do some things, get involved in there.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And, you know, a year from now, there'll be eight doors open from the one event that I didn't want to go to.

Speaker B: Sure. Yeah.

Speaker A: So show up.

Speaker B: I, uh, love that advice.

Speaker A: I don't know. That was probably that, you know, that's not secret, but that's.

Speaker B: And then work kind of is a secret, though.

Speaker A: And then work.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And man, I'm not a 16 hour a day grinder, per se. Yeah. I like to work hard, play hard.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: But I will. I mean, I see so many people back in my district manager days.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: They just, they're lazy. They don't work. Right. Um, and last night, you texted me last night, uh, at 10:30. I actually. I went to two barbecues yesterday on Labor Day. Yeah. But I worked for an hour and two in the morning and I came home and I had a couple quotes I had to get done. Uh, button up. They came from agency VA and I wanted to get them sent out today. I knew I was going to be here half the day. It's a long weekend, man. I got to get these done. At 10 o' clock last night. I'm getting those done. Right. My wife's upstairs watching a movie.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Ah, trust me, I would have rather been upstairs after a long weekend watching a movie.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: But I spent two hours or an hour and a half getting two Quotes sent out. Yeah. Yeah. So. And then there's probably a lot of other variables, but those are probably two biggest.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Is work hard, show up.

Speaker B: Yep. I like, I like both of those. Uh, I always wonder, like, how many agents are owners? I would, I would, I would, I would bet it's the vast majority of them. But how many agency owners are like, I have to be at my office at 9am you know, I will be sitting in my office five days a week at 9am Just because I have to show up at 9am Every single day. Or how many agency owners are at 10:30 at night or 1am in the morning going, I have to get this quote out because, um, because I've got a grind. I've got to get the work done.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, and I would argue it's most of them, but, you know, there's some that don't make it that are going, what? I'm in. I'm an agency owner. I don't have to show up ever.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, it's like, well, you kind of gonna have to set up a schedule and show up at some point. Yeah.

Speaker A: Do you have a schedule? Not a set schedule, but.

Speaker B: No, I don't have a schedule. I just get after it when I have to get after it.

Speaker A: Somewhere in between there. I mean, I have a set. Set schedule, but I mean, I'll, you know, I got a set schedule of how many days a week I want to work out. I got a set schedule how many days a week I'm riding road bikes right now, how many miles a week I want to do. I ride with. Tuesday, Tuesday, Thursday morning with a group of guys. So that's a set schedule. But if I miss one, then I'll make it up. Uh, um, I got a set schedule of some basic things that I need to do. Right.

Speaker B: So you got life.

Speaker A: Yeah. And then I got, you know, I got three kids that, uh, now, um, they're, you know, getting into their own stuff, but they all played sports and do their own thing. I hardly ever miss events, so, you know, I schedule work around their events. Uh, so I would say it's a, it's a moderate set schedule.

Speaker B: You know what I mean? Yeah. Um, yeah. Cool. Very cool.

Speaker A: But, yeah, I mean, I think in the last thing back to, hey, what makes the secret sauce and all that, I think it's. We kind of touched on a little bit. For me, it's helping to understand, hey, what's my purpose? What am I trying to accomplish and reverse engineer. Right. What's my end Goal.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So that way at 10 o' clock at night, when I'd rather be watching a movie. Yeah, it's ah, like, hey, well, if I'm gonna get to being able to go down to Hilton Head for a month.

Speaker B: Right, right. You're already there.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm going next week, actually. Every time on Facebook, I'm like, they're

Speaker B: in Hilton Head again.

Speaker A: I'm going on Thursday. What are they doing? I'm going on Thursday. But, but you know what I'm saying, If you want to create, which you got to be intentional about some stuff.

Speaker B: Sure, sure.

Speaker A: And so back to, hey, what, you know, competitive, be competitive and kind of reverse engineer, what do you want to accomplish? Right? And then you can work towards that.

Speaker B: Isn't it nice that you can work in Hilton Head?

Speaker A: It's gorgeous.

Speaker B: How cool is that? You're like, I have a. I have, uh, I'm the owner of an agency and I can work in Hilton Head and I can work while I'm here, you know, which is, I think it's great.

Speaker A: It's awesome.

Speaker B: That's cool. Um, all right, where do you do your continuous learning? How do you continuously learn in the industry? And, uh, where. And so let me just preface this a little bit. I've been in the industry 23 years, so a long time. And every once in a while I find myself like, hitting a wall, you know, like an intellectual wall or an educational wall where I'm just like, yeah, I got this figured out, you know, um, but I don't ever like approaching my career that way or life that way or my industry that way. So every time I get in that little rut, I'm always like, get myself out of this rut, because I don't want to. I don't want to be in that place. So how do you continuously learn in this industry? I could see you going, I'm a DM now. I'm good. I don't. I'm the best of the best. So, um, how do you just keep putting the pedal to the metal from a, from an educational perspective?

Speaker A: I think part of it is probably some. Well, that's the word I'm looking for. Back to again, having a little grit and wanting to be successful at what you do, wanting to be knowledgeable at what you do, wanting to stay ahead of trends and understand what's going on in your industry. Right. And understand those things will translate to sales and success as well. Um, so if you understand all those things, it makes it a little easier to want to learn I guess. Um, this past year my learning has been learning this independent agency business. Right. Uh, learning what all these carriers want and learning the different models and, you know, just learning this business, the different, you know, tech, etc. Etc.

Speaker B: So how complicated was that transition?

Speaker A: Fortunately, not extremely, but it still is time consuming for sure. And it's limited. I haven't done a lot with life insurance because I've been kind of focused here. Haven't done a lot with commercial insurance and I know those are huge opportunities that I'll get to, but, uh, kind of stayed focused on, on the basics, I guess. Um, so moderate. There's definitely a learning curve for sure. It's not insurmountable and it's not, you know, oh my God, I can't figure this out. But it takes some time.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, but you know, over the years I attend seminars. Right. I, I've done, I did, way back when I started with farmers, I did the LUTC training. So I became a lutc. Um, I did. Through the American College, I did a certified leadership fellow. Um, so I became a clf. Um, and I haven't done that stuff as much lately. But I would call it reading insurance journal. Yeah.

Speaker B: Going to conventions.

Speaker A: Going to conventions. Yeah. I'm usually conventions because I learn a lot by. Through other people. Right. Uh, and where do you meet successful other people? A lot of times it's at the conventions. Um, so yeah, that's how I get kind of my learning these days.

Speaker B: Cool, cool. Uh, we're almost done. I got two questions left for you. Okay.

Speaker A: All right.

Speaker B: Uh, and this one you're gonna probably fail miserably at Everybody Does Funniest Insurance story. Can you think of anything funny? Uh, and I always ask this for. I want to ask this question because I want the younger generation to be like, dang, the insurance industry sounds awesome. Um, so funniest insurance story where you're like, man, this industry is actually pretty cool.

Speaker A: Funniest. I gotta think back because over 30 years, I promise you, I've had numerous funny insurance stories. Right.

Speaker B: Let's start. Let's start. Hold on.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Is the insurance industry a cool industry?

Speaker A: Yes, it can be very cool.

Speaker B: Okay, so if I was a 25 year old graduating from college or a 22 year old graduating from college going, I have no idea what direction I'm headed. Is the insurance industry actually cool or is it just good for me from a financial perspective?

Speaker A: Yes and, yes. Both. Yeah.

Speaker B: No, it's actually cool and fun to be a part.

Speaker A: It is cool and fun. There's a community. Right. So if you ask me what's my funniest. Yeah. And the first thing my mind goes to, it's not what's funny about writing a policy or dealing with a client. I mean, I can think of numerous stories.

Speaker B: Sure, sure.

Speaker A: Yeah. I drank beer before on somebody's patio and sold them life insurance and talked about. Talked about their, uh, you know, doing their pyramid, uh, you know, three days from now, while we were four beers deep into a presentation. Right. Is that funny? No, but it's fun. At the time, I was young. Uh, uh, my funniest stories, though, are, you know, the sales conventions, the camaraderie, the people. Right. I told you, I spent 25 years at Farmers Insurance. Some of my best friends are still at Farmers Insurance or certainly came from. I mean, we've been in Mexico, we've been in Hawaii. We've. Trust me, we've had some fun times. Right. And they're not, quote, unquote, hey, I sold this policy. How funny was that? But they're fun times related to the industry. Right. I've been some cool conferences. I've been to some cool locations. Uh, I've done some cool things, um, because of this industry. Yeah. So is that funny? No, but it's pretty cool.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I think. I think you hit it on the head, like maybe the, the policy language is not fun or funny. You know, a customer calling me up, upset about, you know, something is not fun or funny. Although it can.

Speaker A: It can be. Yeah. Because you can make that a game, too. And I certainly. Yeah, I certainly make that very funny. Fun game. Yeah, you betcha.

Speaker B: Uh, but I think you're right. Over the course of my career, you know, 25, 23, whatever it is, 23 years, 24. Uh, you know, the, The. The. The funness of the, of the career has been all of those fun moments and all of those awesome exotic locations and the, The. The. The human interaction with the people you're in.

Speaker A: Yeah. So to me, that's. Those are the fun stuff.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: I mean, like, I could think of little stories. Uh, the other flip part, uh, is, I don't know, getting that fun, but just the flexibility of this career. It's. Yeah, yeah. I told you. I got three kids, man. I. Yeah, I have not missed many games over those years.

Speaker B: That's pretty fun, too.

Speaker A: Missed many events.

Speaker B: Right. We're binding a policy from Hilton Head. It's like. Yeah, that's. There's. That's cool, right?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: There's cool aspects of the industry.

Speaker A: For sure.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, you know, the. The one where I wonder if people like it or hate it. I love it. Uh, is that education piece, like in insurance, you. You kind of become more and more valuable the. The more you figure it all out, Right?

Speaker A: Oh, this.

Speaker B: This policy says this, and this language means that, and da, da, da, da da. And you. You become more valuable over the course of your career because you figure out more and more stuff over the course of your career, which I love. Like, the educational, uh, the educational piece to me is like, wow, this is great. I have joined an industry that will keep me intellectually engaged for the duration of my industry.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it forces you. Right. Because if you don't, you're gonna slowly die.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker B: And so to me, that's. That's like a dorky version of fun. But, uh, but to me, that's, um, an attractive part of the industry versus, uh, um. Versus something that I wouldn't like.

Speaker A: I totally agree. If you want to take that a step further, you got to kind of be. If you really want to be knowledgeable and you want to be an expert, you want to be valuable, which is how you attract clients.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You touch into finance, you touch into the economy, you touch into investing, you touch into account accounting.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: You become. Do I. Am I, you know, CPA Certified? No, but I know some basic accounting aspects from running my own business for 25 years. Uh, you know, so you kind of. You do. You kind of speak to all. Speak to all of that, and it helps you in your own personal financial situation. If you apply, it can help you, you know, with your kids and. And then, you know, again, you're in an industry that you're touching a lot of different areas.

Speaker B: You've got a kid in college, right?

Speaker A: I got one. My oldest graduated, graduated CU.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: She's currently. She's got 30 applications.

Speaker B: Very old. Um.

Speaker A: I know.

Speaker B: Shooting.

Speaker A: Yeah. She graduated two years ago. Wow. And I didn't start having kids. I was 30. Wow. It wasn't like I had kids when I was 20. Wow.

Speaker B: So, um. So do they look at the insurance and be like, hell, no, dad.

Speaker A: No, no, not her. She wants to go med school. Yeah. Then I got a son that's. He's, um, just went back to. He's going to play his fifth year of, uh, college basketball because he had a Covid year of eligibility, and he's getting his master's degree, so he graduated in May. Very cool. He'll be a business guy. He'll be an entrepreneur guy.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Maybe insurance Maybe real estate, maybe pharmaceutical sales. Yeah, yeah, maybe. Maybe. Right now he's working, uh, what I call the new gig economy. He's, uh, he partnered up with some guys that run a car detailing business.

Speaker B: Huh. Yeah.

Speaker A: It's remote. They run all Facebook ads.

Speaker B: Totally.

Speaker A: They'll pick up a city. So he, My son, runs Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio.

Speaker B: Oh, wow.

Speaker A: I think. Wow. And these guys that own the business

Speaker B: close to each other.

Speaker A: No, these guys that own the business, they're in Vegas.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker A: They run. They flood a market with Facebook ads.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker A: My son's responsibility then is to answer the ads, hire detailers, uh, in those areas and independent, and then match them up the. The detailer to the consumer.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: And he runs it all from his phone.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: So. And he's, you know, for him, same deal. He can go. He can go to basketball practice and then get done with basketball practice and

Speaker B: take 30 minutes, sit on the bench and knock something out real quick.

Speaker A: So who knows? He'll do something business oriented.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: My youngest son, he's a senior in high school now, so, um, he wants to play college basketball. He's got a chance. He's, uh, um, got some stuff brewing. Um, and he'll be a business guy as well, so. And he's actually studying to get his insurance. He just turned 18. He's studying to get his insurance license. He's, uh, supposed to take his test here in the next couple weeks.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: Because he wants to. He's like, I don't know if I want to just be my career.

Speaker B: Yeah. But I want to have it in

Speaker A: college because he sees me, the remote, the flexibility, the, you know, work at 10 o' clock at night, whatever. Um, he's like, hey, when I'm, you know, my senior year and when I go off to college, I want to be able to sell some insurance and make some money, and I can do that for my dorm room. Yeah. So he's getting his insurance license.

Speaker B: We'll see how that's funny because, uh, my kids are kind of in that same category. Like, my kids. I'll just say that my kids are kind of in the same category. I have a daughter who's turning 18 soon, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if she gets her license. And from her perspective, it's just kind of like, hey, this would be a good college job that would pay more than being, uh, a pizza delivery guy. So she's just simply going to, hey, this will line up maybe my next chapter of employment. Not necessarily thinking this Will be my forever gig, but this will be my, you know, this will give me more, you know, better money than. Than your typical college job.

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. Well, I'll let you know how it goes with my son. And she can call in three years.

Speaker B: He'll be like, yeah, he's part of the agency.

Speaker A: We'll see how it all shakes out. Or he may pit her out. Right? I mean, I don't know.

Speaker B: Um, all right, cool. Uh, last, last question and then we're done. All right. Okay. Was this painful? Was it rough?

Speaker A: Not at all.

Speaker B: Okay, perfect.

Speaker A: Not at all.

Speaker B: Um, so the last question is, what would you tell your younger self? You know, Your, your, your 1994 self? Uh, the father in law goes, hey, I really want you to try insurance or think about it at least. Um, you know, you're. You're sitting there drinking two or three beers at a. Your local watering hole and you're going to. What should I tell myself? Your, your now self comes and sits next to him at the bar and says, hey, let me tell you something.

Speaker A: Uh, that's a good question. From a professional standpoint, believe it or not, and this is no, no bs, no lie. Yeah. Ah, I wouldn't tell myself to do anything differently. Okay, cool. Um, I wouldn't say, hey, that was a dumb decision.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Here you are 30 years later, trapped or whatever. Um, so I wouldn't tell myself that

Speaker B: professionally your career is going to play out fine.

Speaker A: Don't worry. You know, are there little things along the world, Hey, I wish I would have done that. Of course. Yeah.

Speaker B: Slash this guy's tires when you get the chance.

Speaker A: Yeah, of course. But no, professionally, um, that advice, it would be, follow that advice. Take that advice. That's good advice.

Speaker B: Yeah. The father in law's right.

Speaker A: Father in law is right. Knowing what I know now, I would have. One thing I would have done is I would have maybe stayed at, you know, my, the, the farmers Prior captive. Three to five years is a great starting point, great launch pad, and actually again, it was a great career.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: However, just knowing the models, I probably would have made that switch sooner.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Um, so I would have made the switch sooner.

Speaker B: Everybody says that. So. Yeah.

Speaker A: And that's again, no knock, because that was a great career for me and all the above.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: Um, but the business models are just different. Right. And one has a little bit more limitations and the other has a little bit more freedom. Um, so anyway, I would have made that switch differently.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Or sooner, I should say. Yeah. The second one, I always tell my Kids, this is. Financially, I would have made some. I made some good investments over the years. Uh, but I sold them. Um, made some money.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But I left too soon. Way too soon. So I tell my kids, it's like, stay for the long term in your investments. Right. I owned a couple real estate properties, properties that, you know, I sold, I made 75 grand on, and if I owned them today, they'd be free and clear, worth 700 grand. You know, I own Netflix in 2015, and I think I sold it in 2017, and, like, hey, I made five grand. Uh, you know, if I still own that today. Uh, uh, yeah, I mean, you know, I'd probably still be working, but, uh, I'd have a lot more money in my bank account.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So. So, hey, younger self, hold on to your. Make some good investments, but hold on to them.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Hold on to them. Those are what I think about. Those are, uh. Neither of those are regrets. Those are just things. Uh, I tell myself, hey, be more disciplined in your investments. Hold on to them longer. Yeah. Make that switch sooner.

Speaker B: Yeah. Make the switch to independence a little sooner.

Speaker A: Yeah. Those are probably two biggest ones. And the last one would be. And I'm starting to do more of this. I've done a lot of this over my years. But be more intentional about, like, what I would say, building your fun life, your. Your. Your quality events, uh, your life, your bucket list type stuff. Uh, be a little bit more intentional. I've done a lot of bucket list.

Speaker B: Really good advice.

Speaker A: That'd be my third thing, because I'm

Speaker B: 44 right now, and, uh, and I've got bucket list stuff. But my body's beginning to break down where I'm like, man, I wish I would have gotten that thing done when I was 32.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, when my body was much more capable. Capable of doing it, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So that's actually great advice.

Speaker A: And, you know, it's easier said than done. Right. Because when we're in our 30s, we're, you know, financially, we're just. We're making it right. We're climbing our career, uh, even 40s. We got, you know, kids at home. They require time and money. Ah, all the above.

Speaker B: College is coming soon.

Speaker A: Yeah. So it's easier said than done. But I'm at a point now where my youngest is a senior. I told you. And, you know, now I'm looking at, hey, what's this next chapter? Right? This next chapter, I want to. To be, you know, health, obviously, I'm very focused on, you know, health and fitness and all that, but, uh, creating some quality events, you know, some bucket list stuff. Uh, right. And being intentional about, hey, I want to ride. I want to ride bikes in Italy and do a wine tour tasting. You know, I've never been to Europe. Just being intentional about bucket list items.

Speaker B: Yeah, but you got to go sooner rather than later, I guess that's my point.

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.

Speaker B: You got to go now because when you go to Europe, you got to walk 30, 14 miles a day and just look around.

Speaker A: Yeah. And you can be more intentional. They don't have to be huge, you know, twenty thousand dollar adventures. Right. They can, they can be little things. So that would be my third thing.

Speaker B: That's good. Myself. That's good stuff. Well, we appreciate you coming on in, Shannon, and, uh, thank you very much for sharing your wisdom with us. I hope everybody has watched and gone.

Speaker A: Dang.

Speaker B: That's a pretty smart guy right there. So, um, so thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for joining us.

Speaker A: Appreciate you having me.

Speaker B: All right, we'll catch you later.

Speaker A: All right. Bye, sir.

Speaker B: Bye. Bye, y'.

Speaker A: All.

Speaker B: Premier Group Insurance is providing this podcast for informational uses only. This podcast should not be relied on as legal or medical advice. Reference to any specific product or entity does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by Premier Group Insurance. Views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply any endorsement to them or any entity they represent. Views and opinions expressed by Premier Group Insurance employees, I. E. Sean Michael Walker, are those of the employees and do not necessarily reflect the view of Premier Group Insurance. Copyright.