Insurance, You Indemnify Me: Season 5 Ep. 2 Kevin Johnson, Owner of Johnson Insurance Agency

Speaker A: Foreign. Everybody. My name is Shawn Michael Walker, and this is the insurance you Indemnify me podcast. And today we have Kevin Johnson in the room. Thank you very much for joining me.

Speaker B: Thank you, Sean. Glad to be here.

Speaker A: We should probably help everybody get to know you right out of the gate. So who the heck are you? We'll start there.

Speaker B: I am.

Speaker A: How long you been in insurance? Who are you? Kids? No kids. Dog. No dog. Harley Davidson, Writer or just. Or just pretender?

Speaker B: No. Ashley Ryan. Okay, so I'm an Aurora native, uh, born and raised. Graduate, Colorado. Yeah. Denver, Colorado. Graduate of Range View High School, part of the home of the Raiders. Went, uh, to tried to play baseball for a couple years out of school. Bounced around to a couple different jucos, Met my wife and decided that that was a better endeavor than trying to continue to be an athlete. Got my marketing degree from Metropolitan State downtown. Cool.

Speaker A: Is that the Roadrunners? Are they.

Speaker B: Yeah, that is. They are the Roadrunners.

Speaker A: Still called Metropolitan State?

Speaker B: It was, uh, it's now Metro University.

Speaker A: Okay. I love that campus.

Speaker B: It was great.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Hung out, and now it's the student center and all that stuff.

Speaker A: But have you been down there recently? That whole area, They've built gorgeous new buildings. I was downtown just the other day, and it was like, well, what have they done?

Speaker B: And now they have.

Speaker A: On.

Speaker B: They have campus. You can live on campus.

Speaker A: It's incredible what's happened down there.

Speaker B: Yeah. A lot of money being spent.

Speaker A: So a good couple years there.

Speaker B: Great couple years. Um, my wife, Jodi, um, is the reason why I am in insurance. Um, she needed money, and you said no. She was a regional underwriter.

Speaker A: Oh, really?

Speaker B: For one of the major carriers here in town who had a big presence. M. And, uh, her.

Speaker A: Is she still or. She was.

Speaker B: She was.

Speaker A: So can you say who she.

Speaker B: Yeah. So she started with Allstate as a law school.

Speaker A: You're like, sean, you just told me not to say the carrier names, bro.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I'm a recovering Allstate.

Speaker A: Okay, got it, got it, got it.

Speaker B: But the story goes is that she started working there as last report taker, got her degree, and her career path was just rocketing.

Speaker A: Awesome.

Speaker B: Um, as you know from a lot of your conversations with other people and your own experience, they came to her and said, you have to go to the mothership. Oh, yeah, that was, you have to go to Norfolk. And she came home. I was in sales right out of school, and she came home and said, guess what? You're gonna become an Allstate agent. Because they don't move. All state agents, families. Oh, and our whole network and extended family is here. She's like, we are not leaving. We had one child. So I was a 28 year old, snot nose, not knowing anything what to do with my life. Sales guy. And all of a sudden I'm in insurance.

Speaker A: What were you selling?

Speaker B: Um, I was in electro mechanical. Passive stuff.

Speaker A: Parts stuff that nobody will understand.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Okay, fine.

Speaker B: But I made a great living.

Speaker A: Okay, good.

Speaker B: And so I went backwards and took me five years to make more.

Speaker A: In an attempt not to have to be moved.

Speaker B: Correct.

Speaker A: She said you have to become an Allstate agent. Just so I, uh, can stay. Don't have to be, uh, moved. Relocated.

Speaker B: She's like, we're not going to Chicago.

Speaker A: Yeah, I would never.

Speaker B: Because the plan was back then with corporate. You go to corporate, you get. You get indoctrinated, and then they send you back out.

Speaker A: Management training. And you, uh, bump around from three or four to four.

Speaker B: But the story gets funnier. Okay, so this is 1998. I start my agency in October.

Speaker A: Interesting.

Speaker B: We had one child, my oldest boy.

Speaker A: Yeah. What's his name?

Speaker B: Colton.

Speaker A: Uh, I always judge people really harshly about their kids names, but, uh, I love. Ours are all k's. Colton's a good name.

Speaker B: Ours are all K's.

Speaker A: Colton with a K. Interesting. Okay.

Speaker B: Because she said, God forbid, we don't need another Kevin because my friends call me KJ. So we have a bunch of KJs now. So, um, as the story progresses, she's pregnant with her second son who was born in 2000.

Speaker A: Uh-huh.

Speaker B: And right before he's born, she's like, I want to stay home with the kids.

Speaker A: I'm done with Allstate.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: So that's where it started.

Speaker A: Interesting. Interesting. Uh, so how long were you an Allstate agent?

Speaker B: 24 years.

Speaker A: Let's back up. How many kids?

Speaker B: Two.

Speaker A: Two kids. Colton and boys and Kade with a K. Yeah. Good names. I won't judge you. I usually. Usually then I'm m. Like, what are the middle names? Because I'm very judgy when it comes to names.

Speaker B: So we have some pretty. So no, pretty cool. So it's Colton Scott.

Speaker A: Colton Scott.

Speaker B: One of my best.

Speaker A: Scott Johnson. Uh, I have to do the whole.

Speaker B: Yeah, the Johnson. So one of my. One of my best friends and her cousins are Scott.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And then Kate James Johnson.

Speaker A: That's good.

Speaker B: And my middle name is James.

Speaker A: I like it. I'm. I'm not judging at all. That's all good. My kids are, uh, Mia Marianne Walker. Uh, Crew Stanford Walker, which was a grandpa's name. So I love that. I love it too, actually. Uh, in fact, uh, I love that name. Crew Stanford Walker. And then the last one's the weird one where as much as I judge people about their kids names, when I say this name, I'm always like, I expect everybody to really judge me on this name. Uh, because it's a favorite character from a book. And his name's, uh, Kaladin. Steven Walker.

Speaker B: Kaladin. Where is that?

Speaker A: Which is very, like Celtic, if you will. It's from a book. You've never read it, uh, but it feels very Celtic. But I think. I don't know. I have no idea. I think it's just a made up, like, Celtic name from a book. So we just call him Cal. So like, the grandparents are like, I hate that name and that's stupid or whatever. You know, it's like, then just call him Cal. And I grew up in California, so it kind of all works. But, uh, but I do expect people to like, hear that name and be like, what the. Uh, you're judging my kids names. And, uh, you gave your kid that stupid name.

Speaker B: Well, my wife was very specific, uh, that it had to be K O L T O N. Colton. Yeah. Not Colton. Yeah, Colton.

Speaker A: Colton. Yeah. Interesting. Well, it's funny you say that because my wife, uh, my son's name is Crew. C R E W. But. And there's a big long story here. I won't even get into it because it's super long. But ultimately, uh, she was like, yes, I'll commit to naming our kid Crew. Our firstborn son Crew. But I get to choose how to spell it because I wanted to spell it. Motley Crue. C R U E with the ooblet. And she's like, the name is stupid enough. Like, you can't do that to our kid. Or like KRU or something like that.

Speaker B: Well, from what, what I know of you and your wife, it's a good thing that you list.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, definitely, Definitely, definitely. Like 90% of the time I listen to her and it keeps our life on track, you know? So, um. All right. So how long were you at Allstate?

Speaker B: 24 years.

Speaker A: 24 years. Were they all magical years?

Speaker B: Um, I have nothing bad to say about the company. I got great training, um, great support, you know, but the industry changed on a dime. And, you know, corporations get to make their own decisions, but so do we as salespeople.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: And, um, you know, you know this. But you know, Paul Doherty and I Have been great friends for a long time, and he tried to get me to leave 10 years prior to when I did leave. And I kind of wish I would have.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's like the common story, like, that's always the common trope is like, I'm so glad I'm here now.

Speaker B: There is a level.

Speaker A: Done it before, Sean.

Speaker B: I will tell you that there's a level of. And for people who are gonna see this that know me, they'll get this right away. But there's a place in where I was that it was easy.

Speaker A: 100%, it was easy.

Speaker B: I have great employees.

Speaker A: The devil you know versus the devil you don't know. You're like, I'm making great money.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: It's easy.

Speaker B: I know everything took care of my clients.

Speaker A: I can work hours a week.

Speaker B: When I was out and about, I run into clients all the time. Obviously, we all do business with people like that. Um. Uh, the model was great. Um, but again, they made a decision that they, you know, you had to get on the hamster wheel in order to make real money.

Speaker A: They were changing comp structures.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I didn't want to do that.

Speaker A: You know, I never disparage the captive side.

Speaker B: No, it was great.

Speaker A: The captive side. It's always like, hey, they provide a great thing. You can make a killer living. They give you awesome education. They take you on great trips. Um, the whole thing is great. Like, I never, ever disparage it. And agents who are like, man, I really kicked myself for not coming sooner. It's like you were in an incredibly comfortable spot. Like, you were making great living for your family, and it was all working. So there's no reason to kick yourself for not making the decision sooner.

Speaker B: It's just the. The, um. You've read the book or know about the book. Who moved my cheese?

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: I feel. I feel like that's exactly what I went through.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I prolong. I prolong making that decision.

Speaker A: Yes, definitely. That's the right answer. So the right answer is it was easy.

Speaker B: It wasn't the wrong spot. Exactly.

Speaker A: Uh, I was in the right spot, but my cheese was getting moldy. My cheese was getting moved. My cheese was disappearing quickly, and I didn't adapt fast enough. Like, that's the only Being captive. There's nothing wrong with it at all.

Speaker B: Agreed.

Speaker A: The only problem is if somebody starts moving or screwing around with your cheese or your cheese starts disappearing or it starts waning, and suddenly you're going, I didn't adapt fast enough. Like, that's the right Place to go. That's where I feel regret, is like, I should have moved faster because I saw it coming.

Speaker B: Yes. I prolonged that and put it off until I finally, you know, hit a wall where.

Speaker A: But that's.

Speaker B: There were other things that we wanted to do in our life.

Speaker A: It was a human tendency.

Speaker B: Agreed, Agreed.

Speaker A: I'm comfortable. Like, most people don't go looking for the new block of cheese. Most people go, I'm just gonna keep going to the same spot.

Speaker B: So going back to our. You know, because the foundation of our family is what really drives me. Um, how old are the boys now? So colton just turned 30, and kade is 25. We'll be 26.

Speaker A: I'm just kidding.

Speaker B: I'm just kidding. Double nickels. Double nickels for right now. All right.

Speaker A: Uh, but something you were saying something about the family fabric.

Speaker B: So once Cade, my younger one, was basically done with his education, and it was me and my wife.

Speaker A: You could be more dynamic.

Speaker B: And we were dating each other again intentionally. We've done some other things, and it's like, we're here, and we want to be here, so what do I need to do? And I was like, I can't just do the same thing. And, you know, again, corporations make their own decisions, and I just didn't. In order to do what needed to be done in that model, I would have had to ramp up and have much more producers and staff. Uh, and I don't like managing people.

Speaker A: Sure, sure.

Speaker B: So I made that decision. And subsequently, my wife made a similar decision, because we want to be able. Have a fifth wheel and a toy hauler that I can put my Harley in. And we go. We've talked about it. Yeah. And I love it. And I got Starlink, and I can work remotely if I need to, but she didn't have that flexibility, so she found a job that does have that flexibility. So it's like this symbiotic togetherness, you know, partnership, if you will, that has led me to pgi, and I do not regret it one bit at all. Again, just. I wish I would have done it soon.

Speaker A: That's cool. How long ago? I don't know.

Speaker B: My start date was January of 22.

Speaker A: That's a. That's a complicated start date. When was Covid. Uh, just.

Speaker B: It was. We were just kind of on the tail end of it.

Speaker A: When you came to premiere.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then the hard market kind of started spurring up.

Speaker B: 24 was not the end of end of 24.

Speaker A: 23 was like, it was beginning.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: We got a problem here. The industry's gonna have to fix.

Speaker B: I was on fire, Sean, before COVID hit 22.

Speaker A: Excuse me? Before the hard market hit.

Speaker B: Yeah, 22. So that first full year. So the end of January, a full year of just.

Speaker A: Boom. I can't. Unstoppable.

Speaker B: Over a million.

Speaker A: Improvement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In one year. That's awesome.

Speaker B: So we. We. We rocked and rolled and, um.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, just being from here for so long. Yeah. Got a great network and all that stuff.

Speaker A: Stuff, yeah. Um, so do you now get in the fifth wheel and go all the time?

Speaker B: Well, not all the.

Speaker A: You know, who else does that? Do you know Chad Maxey?

Speaker B: We've talked about it. I've talked to Chad a bunch. He, uh.

Speaker A: I don't even think he. He's been a nomad for years now, like, maybe three years now. I think he's going to come back to Colorado and lay some roots down finally. I think. I don't know. Sorry, Chad, but. But I think. But he's been a nomad for three or four. Three or four or five years now.

Speaker B: So we. The longest trip that we've done away is two, uh, full weeks.

Speaker A: Yeah. I was going to say that's kind of normal.

Speaker B: We did the Kentucky Bourbon Trail, you know, all that type of stuff. Um, but we. We. That's the future plan. We're building a new. A new house now that I can put all my stuff and.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, we bought some acreage, that type of thing, so that'll be our home base, and then we'll launch.

Speaker A: That's cool. Yeah, that's really cool. You know, that's kind of always been a dream of mine, too. When Chad did it, it was like, oh, I'm stuck to this desk in this office.

Speaker B: God bless him, though. He's got his kids with him. I know that's a different story.

Speaker A: He's just got two. But. But still, that's. That would be crazy. And a dog and, like, that's crazy. But, uh, yeah, I. When he started doing it, I was like, man, I would love to do that, but I can't. Like, people come to Colorado to see me, and I go places and.

Speaker B: Well, just for what you do.

Speaker A: Just for what I do. But. But, yeah, I've always wanted to do that.

Speaker B: I. We have a great country.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: We literally do every. Everywhere we've been, you know, um, in my life, you know, it's. It was on airplanes.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And now traveling and actually seeing the country is just a total different experience. It's awesome.

Speaker A: This is a stupid Question. And it's totally off, uh, off. Off track. But, uh, have you, like, driven out to, like, Moab and seen, like, that. Those parts of Utah, like Moab slash Zions National Park?

Speaker B: I will tell you that.

Speaker A: Go to Vegas. The whole would be your scene.

Speaker B: Utah. Utah, I will tell you, has some of the most beautiful scenery, period. That's why I'm second to that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I love the Black Hills because we go to. We go to Sturgis every year.

Speaker A: Every year? Yeah, every year.

Speaker B: Every year.

Speaker A: Have you met Brian Blair up there yet?

Speaker B: No, I haven't.

Speaker A: You know who Brian Blair is? I'll have to introduce you to him. But, uh, he's incredible. And he lives in the Black Hills.

Speaker B: Does he?

Speaker A: Up in that area? What's that city up there?

Speaker B: There's Sturgis, Lee Deadwood.

Speaker A: What's the big one, though? Where The Spearfish. No, where the mountain is. The. The heads.

Speaker B: Oh, Rushmore.

Speaker A: Where is that?

Speaker B: Rapid.

Speaker A: Okay. It's outside of Rapid City in rapids. But he's always in that area, so

Speaker B: that's where my oldest guy ever.

Speaker A: You got it. You got to go meet him when you're.

Speaker B: I will definitely do that. My son went to Black Hill State.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Which is in Spearfish.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: So we've been going up there since he started his.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Played football up there. So we started in 2014.

Speaker A: Cool.

Speaker B: I wasn't allowed to get a motorcycle until both kids were well on their way to graduating.

Speaker A: Well, it's funny, man. We're struggling to get to the insurance conversation. But it's funny you say that, because I've always. I've never been a motorcycle guy.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I've always wanted. No, no, no, no. Don't get me wrong. I've been on motorcycles, but, uh, I've never been a motorcycle guy. And recently I've been like, hey, honey, I really want to get on a motorcycle. But like you said, she wins 90% of the 100 of the arguments, and she's like, you're not getting on a motorcycle so quick. She knows I suck on motorcycles. She's like, every time you get on, you do.

Speaker B: This is all you need to know about my wife. So we got married at 20 years old. Before degrees and get going. At the time, I was a novice outdoor motocross racer. Right. So you're talking making five bucks an hour. Back then, with no money, you know, barely could pay the rent. I was at Peterson Air Force Base on a track, and she was watching. And you know what the hole shot is when the gates drop and everybody takes off. So we go out of the hole shot, we go around the first corner, and I'm in the second wave. Usually, uh, it's waves of bikes that make the first sharp turn. Got it bad. Crash flipped, uh, over the handlebars. Broke the handlebars. No parts, you know, nothing, like. So my day was done. So we load up the bike. We're headed back home to our apartment here over in Aurora. Yeah, you're done. We don't have no money.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And we don't have health insurance yet.

Speaker A: Yeah. And we can't fix the bike.

Speaker B: And you can't fix the bike. If you broke a rib. You will fix the bike. You will sell it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I go, well, I want to have a motorcycle. And she's like, we're gonna have kids. Yeah, you can get a motorcycle when my kids are gone.

Speaker A: Ah. So you had to give UP motorcycles for 25 years?

Speaker B: Pretty much, yeah.

Speaker A: And then so did you.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. We gave him up. So in 2022.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Literally, after I started PGI, I'm like, we're going to the Harley store. And she's like, what?

Speaker A: I go, yeah, I'm making a killing now, babe.

Speaker B: You said. You said I could get a motorcycle. And I'll even let you pick it.

Speaker A: So that's dangerous.

Speaker B: No. Well, she.

Speaker A: She picked.

Speaker B: I wanted her to be comfortable. It's a trike. So I ride a trike. I ride a Tri Glide. Yeah. And she calls it the Big comfy couch.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: It. She feels you're never really safe on a bike, let's be honest. But she feels more safe on that because it's a bigger. You know. Um, and I miss the whole leaning and doing all that type of stuff, but it's awesome.

Speaker A: You know who else you need to get that? So Brian Blair. You need to get to know. He lives up there. You'll. We'll get you.

Speaker B: I'll be out. Great.

Speaker A: You're gonna be in Vegas, right?

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: So, Brian Blair, but also Tara Varner and her husband.

Speaker B: Tara and I. Yeah. When she was here for the. The last thing we had in September.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: We talked about it, and her husband was actually picking up his new bike when that was going on. And so we communicate through Facebook.

Speaker A: Cool. Very cool.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, I have one other question in this vein, but, uh. Oh, uh, it wasn't a question. It was more of a statement. My wife's always said, I can't have a convertible. Not for safety reasons or anything. Just, again, big long story. But we always joke there's a family joke. You can't have a convertible. But just like literally two weeks ago, she's like, I think you can go get a convertible.

Speaker B: Good for you.

Speaker A: So now, uh, we'll see what happens.

Speaker B: Are you going older, big boat sports car?

Speaker A: I like the old, like 69 Mustang convertible kind of thing. So I would like to figure that out and see how possible that could be.

Speaker B: You should go get like a Catalina or a Tempest.

Speaker A: That'd be cool, wouldn't it?

Speaker B: Just a big sweet wagon. You could fit every. You could fit everybody in there with the big top.

Speaker A: That would be cool.

Speaker B: They're. I would love. I would love to have like a 70s Cadillac.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, Deville or something like that. And my wife's like, no.

Speaker A: We're also huge. We're huge Elvis fans at our house.

Speaker B: Awesome. And, uh, he was a big Lincoln Town Car.

Speaker A: I was gonna say I'd love to get some sort of like, um, you know, pink Cadillac, you know, convertible or

Speaker B: something that would be.

Speaker A: Just cruise around in a huge wa.

Speaker B: That's all. But the problem is the houses that they've built in the last four years, they don't fit in the garage. I got the three car garage, but it's the deck.

Speaker A: I know it'll have to go in the. It wouldn't even fit in the driveway. It'd have to fit somewhere else. But, um. All right, so the change. How complicated was the transition from Allstate to Independence? Was it like the learning curve? The, uh, um, cutting off the arm in order to move on?

Speaker B: Honestly, the. So the. That first year, you know, through the appointments, through pgi, my three big, big guys were at what you would expect at the time. Safeco, Travelers nationwide. Yeah. And all those systems. Other travelers is a little old school, I would call it, as far as the m. Maneuvering to write a policy or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Ah. But honestly, if you can get through the Allstate system, you can get through anything.

Speaker A: I've heard that. I've heard a lot of Allstate agents go, yeah, dude, this is all piece of cake. So.

Speaker B: So that. I mean, everything from the coding platform, Easy links.

Speaker A: Easy links, the. All of the technological platforms you had

Speaker B: to figure out just from that wealth of. Or that prior experience, it just, it clicked. I mean, the staff here was great with the appointments and the overall initial training. Um, uh, the initial commercial stuff, because obviously us captive guys didn't do a lot of that. So I feel like the support that we've gotten from the corporation has been awesome. Um, and it's really, let's face it, it's up to the individual. You got to take responsibility. You have to put in the time. Um, you have to look for outside sources that make your job easier. I know you brought this up lots of times and I teased you on Facebook when, when you had, um, Chris in about Canopy Connect. Yeah, because we were literally sitting in that council meeting and I was like, dude, have you used this?

Speaker A: Yeah. Right?

Speaker B: And he's like, what the hell is that? I go, I'm gonna send you a link. He filled out a quote for. Did his own, sent it to me. Obviously I didn't quote him, but he's like, where the hell's this been? And how come I have never used it? I mean, those types of solutions and now with chat, GPT, um, you know, I, I'm still not. My next level is to integrate the AI stuff into EasyLink. I know. And they're doing a good job. I love the recap section where you can pull up a customer. We're diligent about notes, about what we talk to a client about or what we send them. We save the email through Outlook. Um, but the overall automation. Eric in Florida is very good at that.

Speaker A: He's very good.

Speaker B: Um, so there's more I can do. Yeah, it will get there.

Speaker A: Um, it's interesting. So, so we have six speakers in Las Vegas. And, and a lot of one is an, ah, economist. Like, this is what's going on in the world. This is how tariffs are impacting, uh, world economics. This is how the world is impacting world economics. And so this is how it's impacting the insurance industry. Okay. Some people find that very interesting. Some people might fall asleep, but the person who's delivering this, the, the discourse is great, awesome. Sometimes I've heard these in the past where I'm like, what does this have to do with like, Kevin Johnson selling insurance in Denver, Colorado? But it's a really cool speech. Um, my only point is we have other really great speakers. It's going to be awesome. Um, but another one of the speakers is going to just nothing but AI. What's here right now? What can you plug in right now? Uh, what you should be doing to get up to speed and all that kind of stuff. So, uh, six speakers. They all get like a half hour. So in this time that we're in Las Vegas, we're going to be partying most of the time. But there's these short little intellectual, uh, you know, explosions that hopefully people want to sit down and go, I'll listen to that.

Speaker B: So my network of PGI and non PGI industry people that we talk, most of them are agents, but the things that we talk about is, uh, how do you communicate effectively with the client? Because the client is only worried about their checkbook and what it is. So we, I think it's easier to Talk at a 10,000 foot level and then find a quick way to go from what's happening in the economy back down to what impacts their specific pocketbook or their policy.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: I mean we know homeowners here, roof roofs, age is the number one thing

Speaker A: or, uh, not just, uh, prior claims, uh, scheduled roof schedules, uh, wind held deductibles. Things are changing a lot. Like the insurance industry has passed a lot of the risk sharing back to the 100% agree. And it's actually kind of scary because you got, you know, a young couple. I think about the first house I bought. It sounds to me like you were a young couple too. We were a very young couple, yes. When we bought our first house, I think I was 25 or 26.

Speaker B: Me too.

Speaker A: And uh, we replaced our own roof. Uh, like we got up there and ripped the shingles off and replaced our own roof. But I don't the way they have, uh, costs shifted the sharing to the consumer. I don't know how a young couple can buy a house anymore and have a $50,000 claim, be responsible for $22,000 of the claim and have that young couple go. I can't. Uh, I saw a statistic Yesterday that said 78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

Speaker B: Yeah, I've seen this.

Speaker A: If that's True, how can 78% of Americans cover their house and pay a $22,000 bill on their roof next time there's a hailstorm?

Speaker B: They can't.

Speaker A: They can't. That's the actual answer.

Speaker B: But when you, the pressure from the whole purchasing of a real property, the whole pressure from the mortgage side, the real estate agent side, then they come to us and we're supposed to save the day.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: Right. Because these people are barely qualified. They can't have more than 300 or 400amonth in their escrow account.

Speaker A: They're buying way more house than they

Speaker B: should or they're being told lies. Um, you know, the thing that I, I mean, you know, to get into the weeds just for a second, the thing that I think we all as PGI agents need to do, you need to make a decision on what do you, what, how do you Want to do business because we've talked about errors and emissions. Right. The last thing I want to do is to have a client come back at me and say, kevin, you effed up and you did not provide the right coverage for my claim and I'm coming after you. So in the marketplace, there are lots of people that are selling non, um, well, dwelling coverage without extended limits. There's a lot of people doing it. There's a lot of people selling without building codes.

Speaker A: Totally.

Speaker B: There's a lot of people that are not even explaining roof schedules or. And all this stuff. So bottom line, if I'm talking to 25 year old Shawn Michael Walker, um, I'm taking 10 minutes. I send you a detail, but I know you don't understand what you're reading. So we're gonna take 10 minutes and we're gonna say, listen, how does this impact your pocketbook?

Speaker A: Right, Right, right.

Speaker B: And kudos to you. You got a solo baby, I'm telling you.

Speaker A: That's interesting.

Speaker B: It's easier to sell that on someone that you're stealing from another carrier.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because generally our risk now with a 2% sure. We're coming in.

Speaker A: More policies are coming in.

Speaker B: The new policies, even if you beneficial. Yes. Even if you load them up, you're generally cheaper than what they had if they're looking to save money with a solo policy.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So that wind and hail insurance with no deductible is pretty good.

Speaker A: Yeah. Good.

Speaker B: Very happy about that.

Speaker A: Good. I'm glad you're happy about it. Agents are jumping all over the SOLA product and, uh, it actually surprises me. When I got Sola, I was like, I don't know, we'll see. Is I'm not sure I personally love it.

Speaker B: Well, that's why I was begging you

Speaker A: as a senior vice president of, uh, Premier Group Insurance. But, but the agents are in love with it and that's great. I think if. If they want to be in love with it and sell it, by all means do it.

Speaker B: So I if that. If what they say, you know, by reading the National Weather Service maps and the details on how much hail was where and addresses impacted and wind speeds, 100%.

Speaker A: Yeah. Good.

Speaker B: I'll give you just a quick anecdote of a client that left me.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Went someplace else because at that time a couple years ago, he saved about three grand. And I was like, go, you gotta go. I get it. Comes back the next year because of the way companies price things with teaser rates and then change and then they had a rate increase. So now his rate went from X to plus $5,000. Comes back to me. Kev, I gotta get out of here. What do you got? So I wrote him with a carrier that has a 2% win inhale deductible, which equates to about.

Speaker A: He lost the first time he left. Well, he was like. He didn't have that the first time.

Speaker B: Correct. Corre. So if you would have stayed with me, he would have.

Speaker A: Yeah, he would have been just fine.

Speaker B: Right? Yeah. $25,000 deductible because he's got a big house. Right. And it's, uh, a ranch with a big roof, and not many people want those, you know? So I told him about the solar product, and he's like, okay, let me do the simple math. This solar product's gonna cost me 2,200 bucks a year. I'm still saving, like, three grand total. If I pay on this for 10 years, 22,000 bucks out of my pocket, what do you think the chances I get a new roof in the next 10 years? And I said, 100% chance. You're pretty much guaranteed. He's like, I'm in.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: I'm in.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because either way, I would have paid the deductible anyway.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: I'm in.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So if you look at it that way, unless mother nature decides to change our.

Speaker A: Which is not gonna happen.

Speaker B: No, no.

Speaker A: Although 2025 was an incredibly calm year, so.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Yeah. Beautiful. So summer's been beautiful, too. Yeah. Have you been riding your bike also? I mean, all winter?

Speaker B: Pretty much, yeah.

Speaker A: My son and I have been mountain biking all winter. It's like, I'm worried about Colorado mountain biking.

Speaker B: I'm worried about fire, though, a little bit.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely doesn't take much. It's. It's going to be a dry season, so it'll. It'll be interesting. Um, okay. So the transition was easy. The learning curve was easy. Your three favorite carriers at. At the time were Safeco, Travelers, and Nationwide.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Let me ask you this question. Is it safe to say, uh, there's this statistic that always says 85% of your business will be with your top three carriers? Would you say that's an accurate statement?

Speaker B: Yes, 100%.

Speaker A: Okay. And so how do you learn the other. So you have 15% more business to place in your agency? Uh, it's not your bread and butter, but it comes in your agency, and you're going, I have to do it. And you have, let's just say, 10 other carriers or 15 other carriers that you could fool around with on your tool belt. How do you learn those other 15 carriers to take care of that 15% of business?

Speaker B: The network of peer support has been invaluable.

Speaker A: So learning to the Facebook page and go.

Speaker B: Not even. Not even that. Just the guys locally and either our group chat.

Speaker A: So you go to your boys and say, ah, help me. Where do I put this thing?

Speaker B: And agents teach other agents better than anything. And, you know, we talk about coverages, we talk about, you know, leaning into who in general is good at what for what reasons. And then if you have the uniqueness of some risks for too many claims or non renewals, then you just got to figure it out.

Speaker A: You call the guys and say, where am I doing? Where did you do this last time?

Speaker B: Correct.

Speaker A: Let me ask you this question. This is a fun question. Of all the boys in your group, Right? Let's go through them real fast. Uh, Jason.

Speaker B: Jason Sirosta.

Speaker A: Yeah, good. He's been on the podcast, the Holtmans.

Speaker B: Both of them, Shannon and Jeff played high school baseball with Shannon Hall.

Speaker A: With Shannon.

Speaker B: I mean, summer ball. So we've known each other forever.

Speaker A: So those boys, uh, who else? Anybody else that's tight in that group?

Speaker B: Paul.

Speaker A: Paul Daugherty. Daugherty. Paul Daugherty.

Speaker B: Marty.

Speaker A: Marty. Good. I love Marty. Good. So you call those guys. Of all of those agents that we just listed off, which one's the worst agent?

Speaker B: I would say which one's the one

Speaker A: where you're like, that guy. He should have never been in the business.

Speaker B: Uh, I'm gonna go Daugherty.

Speaker A: Darty. Okay, that's funny.

Speaker B: But he's a badass.

Speaker A: Yeah, he's.

Speaker B: He's a badass. Yeah, But. But Paul. Paul is, uh. Paul's a different dude. Love you, Paul. Punk, huh? No, it's all good.

Speaker A: Um, okay, you don't have to explain why. He's, uh, he's a. Uh. He's a. He's. He has a great attention to detail.

Speaker B: Yes, he does. And he.

Speaker A: Which would probably make him an incredible agent.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So he.

Speaker B: He will definitely go the Nth degree for his clients.

Speaker A: Yes, he will.

Speaker B: We just. Paul, you need to get off your ass and hire somebody to help you.

Speaker A: Paul's like, oh, man. Okay, of all those agents that you just listed off, which one's the best would you go that. They're just a consummate.

Speaker B: I think if you ask them, they would say me.

Speaker A: Oh, really?

Speaker B: Just because of. I. I have been able to put together, they would all go.

Speaker A: When we go to somebody, we're going to ask.

Speaker B: Couple anecdotes. Okay.

Speaker A: They're all rolling.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: They're like, he's full of shit. I am Jason Strostok's IT guy.

Speaker A: Oh.

Speaker B: He actually paid for me to fly down and set up his new computer, get his systems all up. I got a networked hard drive back for him to back up stuff up, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker A: I'm not a good IT person. So we do. But, uh. But they always come in here and they're like, are you serious, Sean?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: I'm like.

Speaker B: And then, um, you know, the whole. The Holtman's are great, too. Shannon and I have been talking business since 1998.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Wow. When I started. And he was actually ahead of me when he started with.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Farmers. Yeah. And then Jeff's just a little brother.

Speaker A: You know that back in the day when he was doing his farmers thing.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Jeff's always just the little brother. Right. Uh, although he's younger and better looking than all of you guys, so he's like. So he's like, fine, I'll just be the younger, better looking guy. So, um. Uh, back when he went the farmer's route and you went the Allstate route, and you guys were talking business.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Was he like, you're nuts? And you're like, no, you're nuts. My product's better than yours? Or.

Speaker B: No, we both. No, we looked at each other and say, how the hell are we gonna learn this shit?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. What are we gonna do? How do we. How do we. How do we get more customers? How do we make money? Uh, what do you do in this situation? How do you handle this?

Speaker A: But there wasn't like, my company's better than your company or anything like that. It was like, it doesn't matter. You got a way to sell products. I got a way to sell products. Let's just go sell products.

Speaker B: We would. We would actually talk to each other about differences in policies, and then we would also scour the competition, and that's how we became better at our jobs. I mean, if. If any of these agents out here are watching this. If you haven't read an actual contract in the last year or two, you need to reread the contract totally 100%. You have to keep yourself fresh. Steve Baz, you know who's in Lakewood. Steve is the absolute best when it comes to. When I call him with a question about coverage or something like that. He's like, well, what's the contract say? Yeah, and I love Adobe Control. F. Put in whatever you're looking for and it'll find it.

Speaker A: Put it in a chat.

Speaker B: GPT that too.

Speaker A: Say, tell me all about this contract.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: In three pages or less.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Um, uh, I had another question for you, but, uh, but you said Steve Bassa, which distracted me a little bit because every time I see Steve Baz, I see like a rock star.

Speaker B: He is a rock star.

Speaker A: Like he plays music.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah. He is one of the best keyboard players around.

Speaker A: Okay, I didn't know that he plays

Speaker B: in that 80s band.

Speaker A: It does either.

Speaker B: Uh, I'm sorry, Steve, if I said that wrong. An 80s cover plays in an 80s cover. And they are awesome.

Speaker A: It's. That's funny because every time I look at him I'm like, you look like an absolute rock star.

Speaker B: He is a rock star. He has, he has old posters from the 80s when he was playing punk rock. Really, you know, stuff and uh, I don't know, whatever. Not disco, but the next phase of like depression mode type stuff and then the rock and roll and all that stuff. Steve can light up a keyboard.

Speaker A: That's cool.

Speaker B: It's really cool.

Speaker A: That's really cool. Um, I had another question for you, but I forgot what it was. Oh, I know what it is. Uh, it was technology.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So you mentioned Eric Hartik, genius in technology. He's doing really cool stuff. Are you naturally a tech guy or are you going, no, I'm not guy, but I'm more than willing to.

Speaker B: I've always been a gadget guy. Okay, so let's. You remember the old, uh, Palm Pilots and then, um, you could run our calendars on that stuff before it went to the cell phones, BlackBerry, etc. Um, I'm dangerous enough at Windows that I can get in trouble. Um, um, you know, when it comes to adding peripherals and doing all that type of stuff, um, I'm a big monitor guy. I've got that 49 inch diagonal curved one and all that stuff. Network, um, hard drive. My support, my staff person actually lives in, uh, the Dallas Fort Worth area. So she's got a, the same hard drive and her. And then they talk to each other. So I've got redundancy in case something happens to my house or her house. Yeah, um, the, the use of either an agent like ChatGPT or whatever, easy Links is going to come out with the re quoting process, you know, that type of stuff. I need to dive more into that. Um, and I'm looking forward to that. Um, I know that there was a trend where people were doing like client reviews on teams so that you could actually talk to a client. Nah, that's not happening. Nobody wants to see this mug. They know my voice. So you don't.

Speaker A: My voice. You don't do video proposals?

Speaker B: No, I don't do video proposals.

Speaker A: Yeah, you definitely have a good stuff. You have a great voice. Uh, so I could see them.

Speaker B: I have a voice for radio.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Biggest mistake you've made in your agency, either your captive agency or your, your independent agency, um, over the course of your career.

Speaker B: I can give you two. I can give you two. Well, not understanding in my late 20s, early 30s, what the impact of P and L decisions were.

Speaker A: Okay, good.

Speaker B: Number one, very good. Because in those days, the model was you had to have an office, you had to have staff, you know, all that stuff.

Speaker A: Furniture package.

Speaker B: Yes, yes, all that stuff. So understanding revenue and cyclical revenue, uh, based on first quarter, second quarter, third quarter, fourth quarter. Because the way the captive world was, it was always auto first, then a property contest, then life at the end of the year. And, you know. So your PNC fell off at the end of the year because you're focused on life. Yes.

Speaker A: Yeah. Interesting.

Speaker B: Because you had to win that stuff to get contests and all that. True. And stuff. So I would say, number one is not managing the P and L or understanding that. Second, I would honestly say that I've never been. And now I just recognize that it's a weakness of mine. Managing employee. I've had the same employee.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But I've only in my 30 years, 28 years in business. Now I've had seven total employees. And one of those was my wife.

Speaker A: Wow. I don't know if that's a weakness, though. That's just openly admitting. I don't want to do that.

Speaker B: I don't micromanage. Um, it took me a long time to get to what are the daily or weekly tasks that I just shouldn't be doing.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: As an agency owner, what do I not want to do? And then molding that into a job for my support person to just. She just knows that that's what we need to do. And I think that, you know, there's 10 different ways to skin a cat.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: But this is the way that's worked best for me.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So to give you an example, you're a new client. Mhm. We meet, we talk, I text you the canopy link, whatever. Once your information comes to us, she takes care. She takes care of it.

Speaker A: Runs the whole course.

Speaker B: And she sends me back two alternatives. This is number one. This is number Two. Here's where they were. And then I sell it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then we're good.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then she does all the follow up on the back end to make sure discounts are kept in that mortgage. Uh, companies pay the bill that the telematics, uh, has been accomplished. Yes. And then she handles all of the, um, things that can pop up. You know, credit card expires, bank accounts, you know that type.

Speaker A: Where'd you find her?

Speaker B: She. We went to high school together. Um, I played football with her brother and baseball with her brother. And she, at the time, when our kids were very young, was watching kids in daycare and hated it. So I literally, I literally before we had cell phones back then, I knocked on her door and said, you need to come work.

Speaker A: She's been with you that long?

Speaker B: Yeah, in two steps. So she was with me. And then her husband got transferred before technology allowed for remote. He got transferred down to, uh, Houston.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And she worked for a different Allstate agent for a couple years and hated it. And, uh, then I brought her back.

Speaker A: How lost would your agency be without her?

Speaker B: Uh, like, in a fog. Yeah, it'd be hard to move forward. I mean, I could, I could, sure, I would find a way. But she is invaluable. She knows it. I tell her every day.

Speaker A: Very cool. Uh, so Tech Stack, what does it look like? I mean, Canape, Easy Links. Is there anything else more sophisticated than that?

Speaker B: Um, as far as what I, um. That's a good question. Um, aside from all the Microsoft tools that everybody uses, um, Canape is a lifesaver. Um, the, uh, chatgpt has become more and more and more a vital tool.

Speaker A: How do you use it? Besides, like, here's my rough draft of an email. Please make it better.

Speaker B: Um, I do, I. I do use it for that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, but I also use it to ask the coverage questions. Um, I use it to, uh, I've actually uploaded like, so I keep a new business log other than what we can get on easy wings. Right. And I've uploaded it to. And ask him to evaluate it, to give me my, you know, comparisons year to year and all that type of stuff. I've used it to upload, um, the proposals to a client just to give me their. To give me your opinion. Yeah, I actually had a conversation with a client yesterday that, uh, he actually uploaded his Travelers Renewals and he asked it, am I paying a decent rate for Highlands Ranch, Colorado?

Speaker A: I like that. Yeah.

Speaker B: And you know what it said?

Speaker A: Yes, you are.

Speaker B: You're paying about average.

Speaker A: That's good.

Speaker B: You have good coverage. I never would have thought as a consumer to ask AI or to give

Speaker A: me an opinion or maybe even the agent like it. Like, like, I wonder how many agents are listening to this right now and going, I never thought that I might con. My customers would be using chat GBT to ask if this is a good policy or not or if this is a good renewal rate that just.

Speaker B: And he, that client is a very smart, technical, sure. Math oriented. Yes, yes. And he, he's like, he goes, I just want you to know, based on my 2 point whatever percent interest rate that I'm paying on my mortgage, that your insurance and my taxes are more than what my principal and interest.

Speaker A: Yeah, I believe that, which is unfortunate, but I believe it.

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, wow.

Speaker A: You know, the other day, this is completely off base, uh, but my son had a humongous cranial facial surgery. Cut his jaws, you know, moved around his whole entire skull. Um, whatever. It's no big deal. He was born with stuff. This ninth of surgery. It is what it is. But the important part is the doctor provided us a picture of the surgery, like where all the metal is in his skull and where the screws are and stuff the X ray. And so the very first thing I did was took the X ray and put it into ChatGPT and said, uh, my son just had an operation. Can you tell me what operation was conducted? And in, uh, between zero and five stars. Can you tell me how well the doctor did in the operation based off of the picture? And can you tell me how long the recovery is going to be? And can you tell me, uh, what he's going to be able to eat or not eat over the course of the next, you know, uh, over the course of his recovery? And just based off of that one image, uh, X ray, that one Emory image, it came back with, the doctor did a great job. I can tell that the doctor did this. Even though this was happening this way. I would give it five out of five stars and blah, blah, blah, blah, and yada, yada, yada. Your son's not gonna be able to eat for the next eight weeks. Uh, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it was all spot on, just based off of an X ray. And I was like, to your point though, uh, the consumer is using chat GPT as well, right? The consumer chat GPT and going, here's my renewal, here's my contract. Uh, here's all the verbiage. Is this good or bad? Or what's bad in it, you know, or what's Good in it. What should I be happy about or sad about?

Speaker B: I agree.

Speaker A: Uh, could I get something better somewhere else?

Speaker B: You know, I think that they're gonna start doing that. I think I wouldn't be. I mean, they should.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they should.

Speaker B: But what is the definition of better? That's the thing where. If we are. We. If we are. Listen, Mark. Yeah, but, Sean, you said this when we first started talking about A.I. a, uh, couple years ago. Uh, and even when we went to Texas, uh, live for the soup thing, the clients have a say in what goes on, right?

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: On our side of the fence, we can come up with all these great ways to slice and dice and explain things, but the client has a choice. So the fact that they're gonna be able to use that just really blew me yesterday when it happened. Um, and I was like, so how do we identify the segment of the market that still wants an advisor? Great point, because you said that and that was one of the things you talked about. The customer gets a choice. They can use the phone. But I will tell you that more and more, and these are all anecdotals from my perspective, but more and more people are wanting that advisor. I'm telling you. I just see it.

Speaker A: I see it.

Speaker B: People who have left me. They left me to go do the comma.

Speaker A: Even though ChatGPT exists, you know, or semicolon, even though ChatGPT exists. So even though these new tools exist and people have great confidence in these tools, they still want to come to you and go, ChatGPT said this. I still want my advisor to tell.

Speaker B: That'd be great.

Speaker A: Is that accurate or not accurate? Or, um, should I trust what it said or should I not trust what it says? It told me that there's this other thing. Can you tell me about that?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: You know, and, uh, I still think the consumer is always going to want a human advisor.

Speaker B: I learned something when I was selling electronics, right? When I was doing my own proposals on word incorporating and bringing in tables on Excel and doing that type of stuff, which it was brand new back then. I, um, remember dealing with a rep who was, um. We sold some cable assemblies, like all these cables that are on the cameras and stuff. He said, don't ever let technology or what your company provides you as technology get in your way of learning new things to be better at your job. And it just seems like the best tool out there is actually a web browser or on your phone and a microphone that you can ask questions. It's really that leap in 30 years has been amazing.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's been wild.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: I started in insurance, I think in 2001. Uh, so just a couple years after you. And like what happened in 2001 versus today is. It's like. It's completely. It's 100% different.

Speaker B: 100% different. But they used to come in.

Speaker A: Did you ever use the books to rate policies or was that.

Speaker B: No, we all state was a pat was passed that we had um, machines

Speaker A: come in with CD ROMs and update your rates with CDs.

Speaker B: Actually even better than that. Allstate had what they called IBM AS four hundreds.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And they had tape back that we would have to take home so we wouldn't lose data. So you'd rotate them. But we were one of the first people that it was on a VPN. And then the AS400 would talk to Norfolk or the Mothership and then, uh, all that stuff. We would actually. It was still DOS based when I first started and I could do a quote in 30 seconds. Wow. But it was so much simpler. And then everything got to Windows based stuff and they just made it more complicated. They. More questions which I don't know. It is what it is.

Speaker A: They used to bring in, uh, CDs. The reps were like part of the rep's job was to bring in to deliver the new Race CD ROM and plug it into your computer and update the rates.

Speaker B: That would make sense from an independent

Speaker A: side of the world. And I am young. Uh, but there was one company that we would use to rate policies and we'd get out a book and actually rate policies with the book and kind of look at the table. And it too was easy, but you just needed to know like, okay, here's the matrix. This is the age, this is the blah, blah, blah. And you can whip up rates pretty quickly using a book. But. But that was. That's like. We're talking about like the oldest of old school.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Insurance.

Speaker B: You know, it's funny though, if you ever. I haven't had to do it a long time. Last time I did it, I was still at Allstate where I swore that there was an incorrect rate applied to a policy. And we got to someone old school.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: They used a book. A book to double check it.

Speaker A: I bet you they did. And were you right or were you wrong?

Speaker B: I was wrong. Some. Some discount right. For like a new roof or a renovation or something like that. I was like, this is not right. I was wrong.

Speaker A: Um, how about marketing? What does your agency do from a marketing perspective? Like I know you know everybody in Colorado, so the crew, your agency, but how are you growing your agency?

Speaker B: So the joke between me and Jason versus Jeff and Shannon, uh, Kevin and Jason just let their phone ring, which is not true. That's the joke.

Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they actively wait for it to ring a little.

Speaker B: A little, you know, a little. Just a little bit of social media stuff. Not a ton. Um, the. I think the golden treasure that we all forget about is X dates.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And now that we have the canopy information for the last three and a half years, in addition to my prior experiences, we know when people's policies are going to renew. And sending a. I mean, literally a text or an email with the new canopy link refreshes their memory. Ah, yeah, I can do that. And I will tell you that that is my number one treasure for X dates. And that is the oldest thing out there.

Speaker A: Take that for.

Speaker B: I'm just saying now there. There's plenty of other agents that are probably listening to this, so when you

Speaker A: say X dates, you're just simply saying win backs a win back 100.

Speaker B: Somebody either that left us or someone that we quoted and you said, and they couldn't get them. But the other thing is, and. And this is just my personal opinion. I pay for the MVR include history.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: We save every one them of. Okay. So if I have a client that I know, a claims dropping off or a tickets dropping off, that's. That's the new X date.

Speaker A: I know we can do better than we did last time. Come on back.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: At least come have a conversation with me.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: That's genius.

Speaker B: I know it's expensive, but if you look at, you know, because we can see that on our statements.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: How much we're spending with Progressive or Safeco or whoever, to me, that's just an investment.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I want. I don't want to. I don't want to be a bait and switch, you know, with the client.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: I want to know that what I'm sending you to, potentially, you say, yes, I want to do business with you, Kevin. It's a real number.

Speaker A: Yeah. What was, uh, what's the craziest claim you've ever had in your. In your period of time as an insurance agent.

Speaker B: Oh, that's a great.

Speaker A: Craziest claim where you're like, fortunately, knock

Speaker B: on wood, I do not have any Darwin or award claims, which are generally life insurance claims. Definitely. Um, I've had no cars hitting buildings or anything like that. No, um, no collapses, no total losses in my career Never had a total loss. I had one shock loss that was, uh, a motorcycle accident. Very unfortunate that went into the umbrella. Uh, from a liability standpoint, um, honestly, water. Water is the worst.

Speaker A: Water is the worst.

Speaker B: Water is the worst.

Speaker A: As a homeowner, I'm horrified of water.

Speaker B: I will tell you the. So we're building a new house and I'm gonna be on a well. So I'm not hooked up to the city water system, but I am still gonna spend the 16 or 17 hundred dollars to have an automatic valve shut off for my water supply. I will tell you that that is one thing that we try to talk to clients about. I wish carriers would give more than a 2% discount for it because the Moen makes a really good one.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: And I think Delta does too. Um, but they're WI FI enabled and they will learn your habits in your house. And if it gets out of whack, it shuts it off and sends you alerts and water claims. I can just. My old partner, um, that we shared office space when I was working at Allstate. She had a terrible claim in a house that she hadn't even moved in yet. And that was a six, almost seven month process. I had a client, unfortunately, same thing happened in Parker last year. And she's buddies with me and she's like, oh my God, Kevin, I know this is gonna be horrible. And it was the additional living experience, uh, expenses. Um, most carriers are gonna be really good about doing all that stuff. But there's always construction delays with demo versus permitting versus the reconstruction. It never goes smoothly. Ever.

Speaker A: The reality is it's just a humongous disruption to life. Yes. And if you can pay 1500 bucks or 1600 bucks to have something installed,

Speaker B: I'm telling you that, that install it just.

Speaker A: Even if, even if the insurance company is going to cover the loss, it's like, I'd rather not have the loss. Yes. So I can just live my life without dealing with.

Speaker B: Not to mention when our clients have those types of losses, fire, water, liability, you're stuck. You can't switch. Nobody wants to. You know, you're. You're in purgatory for five years.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah.

Speaker B: But the, the great thing too is that the market changes. Right. We're coming out of the hard market. It's, It's. We always used to say it's. It's time to make hay when the sun's shining.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: It's time to, to. It's time to really get after it this summer.

Speaker A: A hundred percent. But we need to get out is 100. So let me ask you two questions. Since, uh, you said hard market, how hard was the hard market? So let's, let's, let's, uh, um, turn down our excitement in this conversation. Be like, it sucked.

Speaker B: Uh, so I'm a sales guy.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And my euphoria for coming here, like I said, I wrote a million bucks the first year. I wrote through the middle of 23. I was on page to not maybe hit another million, but I was, I was kicking ass.

Speaker A: You were moving fast.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I was like. And then all of a sudden, just the brakes went on and we just refocused on diving deeper with the clients. So the whole, do you have a truck with a hitch? Do you have a toy? What have we missing? Um, and then take every opportunity that it comes in and I have a saved email that says, thanks, but no thanks, and it's just copy and paste. We appreciate the opportunity. Unfortunately, we can't help you right now. And we'll follow up with you when

Speaker A: things go, when we can.

Speaker B: And I had a lot of thanks, but no thanks for through that and most of 24. Um, and through 25 too.

Speaker A: But yeah, 25 was rough too.

Speaker B: Three, you know, four years. I'm extremely proud of where we are. And it's all good.

Speaker A: Yeah, everybody works hard, creates what they want to create. And, uh, who cares how big or small it is? Is like I'm creating what I want to create the way I want to create it.

Speaker B: But, but honestly, you know, we. I, uh, remember you've been here long enough too. When Pip went away in Colorado, I didn't take a paycheck for six months because that's how much premium. I lost over 600,000 in premium. And I had two full time people, all my expenses. And yeah, we were writing a ton, but it did. You can't make up for that premium. You know, you just can't. So those legislative changes, law changes, um, companies coming in and out of the market, we can't control that. So it gets back to who moved my cheese. And fortunately, at 50, uh, five years old now, I can handle a little better than I would.

Speaker A: That's right. 7 Habits of Highly effective. People.

Speaker B: Love it.

Speaker A: One of the habits is control, uh, what you can and stop trying to control what you, you can't. And so you're absolutely right. Like, I can't control what State Farm is doing.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: I can't control all of the chess moves that all the carriers are playing out on a national level. Um, I can Understand that our agents feel that pain. I can understand that we feel that pain. But, uh. But what I can't do is bellyache about it all day long and go, well, I'm just gonna sit here and wait for it to get better.

Speaker B: Right. Right.

Speaker A: Uh, you just go, okay, well, what. What can we do? Like, what maneuvers can occur and happen right now while I have to deal with this horrible situation?

Speaker B: I tell Melissa, you know, because she takes it personal even more than me when somebody fires us. Uh, because it happens.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely.

Speaker B: And she takes it more personal. I was like, miss the only two things you control, attitude, effort. Something's going on in the client's life that made them want to change, and it's okay. Yeah, we're not going anywhere. We'll get them back.

Speaker A: They will come back.

Speaker B: You know, and then the. The other thing is we. We've talked about. Over my course of my career with all my buddies, whether it's Allstate or not or whatever, we. We equate our books as cattle herds. Uh, uh, right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So we've got cows.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you have to move them around and. Or there's cattle rustlers that'll steal out of the back 40. Or you go through some lean times when you don't have enough food, your cows get real skinny. Or you get real. You know, because of rates, cows get nice and mature, and then they go to slaughter, and then you're screwed. So I think this year for 20, 26, we need to have more cows. We need to get after it and put more policies on the books.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's funny you mention it as a cow herd, but I always talked about the hard market being the coaling of the industry.

Speaker B: That's a great way to look at it.

Speaker A: Like, during the culling of the industry, it's really hard to explain to somebody why you have to take a cow off to the side and shoot it in the head. Like, nobody understands that. Like. Like you think about that, and it's like, that shouldn't have to happen. You're like, you're right. It shouldn't have to happen. But resources are thin, and, uh, the herd needs to stay healthy. And in order to keep the herd healthy, we need to take the unproductive, um, animals out of the herd and get rid of them.

Speaker B: That's a good way to look at it.

Speaker A: Or you hear it's not beautiful.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: And nobody understands it. But it has to happen sometimes.

Speaker B: I forgot the executive. I don't know if it was Ballmer or, you know, Steve Ballmer or one of those Bezos or one of those guys. But basically they're like, you need to fire your bottom 10% of your workforce every year. That is brutal.

Speaker A: That is brutal. But it's. But that's probably the same thing calling the herd, right? Yeah, um, yeah, it absolutely is. So the hard market was rough. It, uh, had to get cold, and it was the first time the industry had to get cold in. It's been a long time in 20, 30 years. And so a lot of people after

Speaker B: 09, 0809, when we lost, I lost 10% of my homeowner business just because of the foreclosures. Then to get hit with hail, like, we did some cooling, um, companies started pulling back. But it is so weird to me that if you look back that, you know, 15 year period of time. Yeah, homeowner posse was 1500 bucks.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: For a really good one. Right now it's five to seven grand.

Speaker A: I know, it's incredible.

Speaker B: So, yeah, it's, it's just a, uh, different. But you know what? It is what it is. Let's figure it out. Let's get to work and, um, have a good year.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so now it's 20, 26. Who are your carriers? You're a top three. Now, I've been anxious to ask you this.

Speaker B: M Safeco still, uh, number one, followed by Travelers. And honestly, by the end of the year, it'll be Foremost.

Speaker A: Foremost Signature. Right. Tell me about Foremost Signature. Let's just take a second. Like, what's happening?

Speaker B: Super surprised. Super surprised.

Speaker A: You're super surprised?

Speaker B: I'm super. Well, because I'd never had the experience of MetLife, you know, before farmers bought them.

Speaker A: Which means you never dealt with it when it was super broken either.

Speaker B: Correct? Correct. Because that's, that's all I heard from everybody that had been around about how it got screwed up. The rep responsible for our area actually is an old Allstate guy.

Speaker A: Oh, is it?

Speaker B: Yeah. So he knew who I was and we talked, um, had to put a little business plan together. Um, and he's like, just. He goes, if you can do 100,000 this year.

Speaker A: Yeah. Which you'll do, you'll do so easily.

Speaker B: Sean. I've already passed time.

Speaker A: I'm sure you have.

Speaker B: Uh, I will probably do 3 to 400,000 with them this year just because they, they want to grow.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, you get the right people

Speaker A: in there, they're going to take rates up a little bit in the next week or two, but they're still going to be very competitive.

Speaker B: I will tell you the. The ability to have guaranteed replacement or rebuild.

Speaker A: Talk about a policy you should read. Have you read the grant protect policy?

Speaker B: I haven't read the.

Speaker A: Read that.

Speaker B: I haven't read the total one.

Speaker A: That one's incredible. It's an incredible policy.

Speaker B: I will. I will just tell you that the way. Now, granted the one. There's always a whining coming from a sales guy, too. I really wish that they. In Colorado, they would have distinguished between IR4 roofs and not. They didn't do that. Um, I wish they would have, um, made it a little bit easier to find. It took me a while to find the schedule, you know, so after eight years, that's. That's kind of brutal. But again, if you package it with a solo policy, customers get enough money in their pocket, you bridge the gap. Um, but I think it's our responsibility, too, as an industry, not just the sales side, but from the company side. We should be doing it better either through Carol Walker or what they need to be talking about the fact that Colorado has been pushed back on and you have skin in the game.

Speaker A: Right, right. Well, it's interesting. We're in an industry that if you're too profitable, the state Department will come to you and say, you're making too much money. You must take rate increases. So, you know, insurance companies made a lot of money in 2025.

Speaker B: Yes, they did.

Speaker A: Uh, you know, you have the headline last week was, state farms giving back $5 billion to their customers. In any given state, if somebody's making too much money, they'll come to them and say, you're making too much time to take rate decreases or time to get this more fair for the consumer in the state. So. But you're right. There are organizations like Carol Walker's where you can say, hey, you know, fight for us and fight for the consumer and make it happen. Um, back to foremost signature. Just real quickly. Formal signature currently, or I should say foremost as a whole is a $5 billion company. Um, their goal is to be 20 billion over the course of the next 10 years.

Speaker B: That is crazy.

Speaker A: And they want to be the new national carrier. And if you ask me personally, I think they're really jockeying for this, this position of make space on the shelf to be our new national. To be your new national carrier. And if you ask me, they're doing it very, very, very quickly because I think they also know GEICO is vying for that position of, hey, will, we want to be the new national carrier. So I Think you got these two carriers, like, vying for who's going to get the most amount of shelf space as the new national carrier in the agency.

Speaker B: The thing about understanding the market, at first I didn't pay attention because I was always worried about, uh, got it right. Once I started paying attention to the market and tried to keep tabs on competition, which we never can do. 100%, because even what they give the doi, it's cryptic.

Speaker A: Sure. Although now you can dump it in a chatgpt.

Speaker B: That's true. That's true. And that tool that they have on the DUI to tell you who's competitive or not. I don't know if it's true or not, but whatever. My point is that carriers. It was obvious coming out of our hard market that there was a signal from multiple carriers that they want to be a smaller insurance company.

Speaker A: Okay. In Colorado.

Speaker B: Yes. In Colorado specific, we have too much market share.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely in Colorado.

Speaker B: And that signal to a sales guy is. Yeah, well, we went to the back of the line.

Speaker A: Yeah. Right, right.

Speaker B: I want, I want. We need options.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And I will tell you that the ability to have options has made my job more fun.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Since becoming with or being appointed with people.

Speaker A: Definitely.

Speaker B: And it's awesome. Cool.

Speaker A: We're running out of time, so let me ask, uh, this question. Um, what would you tell your younger self? So, uh, your. I don't know if we want to tell. What would you tell your younger self? Like, right as you're getting into insurance? Or maybe your younger self before you even knew insurance existed? Like, uh, what, make this mistake, do this sooner?

Speaker B: Uh, I think the only way to learn is to make mistakes. So we had. You got to have that in your, you know, in your rear view mirror.

Speaker A: Like that, that chart, the f. Around find out chart.

Speaker B: But the honest to goodness thing, if I were talking to. Well, I have, you know, we have a young, young kid that may be watching this, that's with us, John Mahoney. Known him since he was beyond it, like 10 years old. Um, and I told him, just stay focused on what's in the front going out the front windshield, not what's going on the back out your rearview mirror. And if you just control your attitude and effort, keep grinding, you know, yes, you need to reevaluate, you need to question yourself. But just, you know, I said by the time you're 35, 10 years into the business, you'll be making a, uh. And you will have a solid foundation that you own something and that you can live Your life the way you want to.

Speaker A: Sure, sure.

Speaker B: Within reason. You still got to take care of your clients that. You remember those old successories?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Rule number one, if we don't take care of the client, someone else will. Period.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: So there's all those, you know, we all have those types of sayings, but, you know, young, younger Kevin was even more boisterous than I am now.

Speaker A: That's hard to believe.

Speaker B: Full. Full of himself was 100% right all the time.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And just. That's. That's the only thing is just slow down, pay attention, Have a mentor, I think have an older mentor. You know, older guys that have been through it.

Speaker A: I call it a board of directors.

Speaker B: There you go.

Speaker A: Choose a board of directors.

Speaker B: Everybody should have a personal board of directors. And you need to have those memes that go around on Instagram now. You need a 3am friend. You need a 6pm friend.

Speaker A: It's true.

Speaker B: But you also need almost call it a father figure or board of director mentor, or the little voice that sits on your shoulder that says, hey, you need to check yourself, get your shit together. Uh, think about this and get back to basic 101.

Speaker A: Yeah. Was the cockier, younger Kevin, would you say, hey, chill that guy out a little bit. You'd be like, he burnt a couple underwriting bridges.

Speaker B: No, not any of that. I mean, definitely open mouth, put foot in several times. Um, and, you know, especially after a few cocktails, maybe doing some stupid, stupid. But, um, no, I just think that that's. I wasn't afraid to take those risks, you know, to.

Speaker A: Which is what's made you successful.

Speaker B: Well, you know, to a certain, to a certain extent. You never, you never want to. You never. I mean, because we're in insurance, right? You don't want to wrap yourself around in bubble wrap and never, never take a risk. Sure. But I will tell you that the. I guess more, More understanding of seeing it done a different way. Uh, I was so this is the way I had to be. You know what I mean? The rigidness. The rigidness of the way, uh, my attitude was. And I honestly, it was, it was. It came from a place of fear. I didn't want to fail.

Speaker A: Yeah. Do you know, I think it's back to your point, like you said earlier, like, there's 10 ways to skin a cat. It's like. I think that's what you're saying. Back then, it was.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: There's not 10 ways.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: This is how you make money. This is how you run an agency. This is how you do this.

Speaker B: Do you want to hear?

Speaker A: And now you're like, my wife cares how you do it. You can do it a thousand different ways.

Speaker B: So I'll end with a quick story about my wife, the underwriter. So when I get hired and I go through the new training, I go to Chicago, I get indoctrinated, I come back and I got a list and I got to call these people. And that's before I even opened my office. Right, sure. She had a very poignant conversation with me and looked me right in the eye. Do not cheat. Do not mess with this. Because then you mess with who I

Speaker A: am and what I've created.

Speaker B: Yeah. And where I am in the company and back on lines of business. Preferred auto. Don't write non standard. Write homeowners. Sell as much life insurance to win contests and everything will take care of itself.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, awesome.

Speaker B: Fear. Fear of failure is what I mean. I'm the first kid in my family to get a degree. Um, you know, solid blue collar family, you know, and owning my own business, you know, was just a foreign, foreign thing. Um, you know, I leaned on my parents for sounding boards, you know, and my wife and, um, you know, I had plenty of ups and downs along the way, but I'm just like, I know that you have a deep faith and a relationship with your wife. That's the number one thing.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely.

Speaker B: I can take on anything as long as I got.

Speaker A: Uh, make my wife proud 100% like that. I can't tell you how much of my life and my life successes, or at least the things I consider successes are only exist because it was like, I've got a gorgeous, marvelous wife and I just want to make her proud. It's like, I'll sit here at this desk and work hard and sweat bullets and go home. And as long as she's like, hey, I'm proud of what you've accomplished. It's like, great, I'll go back and do it again.

Speaker B: Let's do it again. I will tell you just on, uh, behalf of, uh, guys, we know you put up a lot of crap that we never see from carriers. And we know you fight for us and we appreciate that.

Speaker A: Thank you very much. Uh, I don't get that, uh, that statement often. It's a lot of work.

Speaker B: It's a lot of work.

Speaker A: I think a lot of people go, oh, he's the senior vice president of a billion dollar agency. He's probably just sitting there full, no,

Speaker B: we know you have to fight.

Speaker A: This is a lot of work. I was on the carry side for so many years, and, uh, this is way more intense work than, um, anything I've ever done in my career.

Speaker B: Well, so I appreciate it. And with the success on the commercial side, there's a whole lot more mouths over there that want to get fed, too, versus what you and I or my comfort zone is. So. I get it. I get it. But I will tell you that opportunities for what we do here and the way that we get treated.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I would not want to work for anybody else.

Speaker A: I appreciate it. Thank you very much, guys.

Speaker B: Thanks, Sean.

Speaker A: Have a great day. See y'. All. Bye bye. Premier Group Insurance is providing this podcast for informational uses only. This podcast should not be relied on as legal or medical advice. Reference to any specific product or entity does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by Premier Group Insurance. The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply any endorsement to them or any entity they represent. Views and opinions expressed by Premier Group of Trust employees, I. E. Sean Michael Walker, are those of the employees and do not necessarily reflect the view of Premier Group Insurance.

Speaker B: Copyright.