How High-Net-Worth Clients Really Decide Who to Trust | 960

Speaker A: All right, thank you for joining us today for our session on innovative strategies for building trust and deepening relationships with high net worth clients. I'm Dave Lorenzo and we are picking the brains of the brain trust at Sundrowski corporate advisors, Harry Cindrowski and John Alfonsi. Um, we're going to kick it off with personalized client experiences and I'm going to ask the first question to, uh, John and Harry. We're going to start with John. John, how can we tailor our approach to match the unique needs of high net worth clients? What, what do you, what do you think we can do to tailor our approach there, John?

Speaker B: Uh, it's, it's almost basic, Dave, but one of the first things I would say is figure out what it is that high net worth potential client needs. Is it something that I do and how can I fulfill that? Not just broadly, hey, I do business valuations. This would be a good person. Why would they need a business valuation? Do they need it for 409 A purposes? Is it for issuing compensation? Um, is it for estate and gift tax planning? Um, is it for purposes of trying to negotiate a transaction or a purchase price? So knowing why they would need me is critical. Um, rather than just a generic, hey, a business owner or family office would be great. So starting off with that, call it vetting that process or understanding why somebody specifically needs my services, other than we used to have a business development person that would say, he would make random introductions that says, um, you don't know him and I don't know how you guys could work together, but you're going to figure that out. Um, that doesn't do me any good. Um, occasionally maybe it does or it would pan out that way. But no, somebody that, again, that I know specifically why they would want me, then I can tailor whatever my talk is, my presentation or listening to them, what their needs are of how I can otherwise meet that.

Speaker A: Okay, Harry, um, same question to you. How can we tailor our approach to match the unique needs and preferences of high net worth individuals?

Speaker C: Well, I guess I would start from

Speaker D: the beginning to find out what they actually, you know, uh, a particular group would be looking for.

Speaker C: So you need to understand, is it

Speaker D: somebody who is younger, in their 40s,

Speaker C: who said it out in the ballpark, or somebody in their 60s.

Speaker D: They're going to be looking for different things.

Speaker C: So the way I kind of look

Speaker D: at, you know, tailoring things for people and in providing what I want to

Speaker C: provide is that counseling and making yourself

Speaker D: known in an area, uh, and know that you're a giver at the end of the day first before you're a taker. That's my big thing.

Speaker C: That's what all these comes back to

Speaker D: us when we're giving and we're not expecting anything back.

Speaker C: You know, just like, you know, John

Speaker D: and I have done a lot of

Speaker C: things on a charitable side. We also do a lot of things where people just ask us questions and we answer them.

Speaker D: We're not charging it for them.

Speaker C: It's collaboration that always comes back to us. Because you know what you get back,

Speaker D: hey, they're really nice people. And people want to deal with nice people.

Speaker C: They don't want to deal with jerks. So that's the first part.

Speaker D: You got to get back.

Speaker A: I love it. Thank you, Harry. Okay, uh, the second question, second point is about leveraging emotional intelligence. So, John, uh, we'll go back to you. Please talk about the role of empathy and understanding in building trust. I mean, we're all in the trust business, all of us here, all of us who are a part of, uh, this program today, we're all in the relationship business, which is fundamentally the trust business. People invest their trust before they invest a dollar in us. So talk about the role of empathy and understanding in building trust. And one of the reasons why I think it's valuable for me to ask you first, John, is everybody thinks that what you do is all about the, is all about the numbers. And now I know you, and I know it's more than, it's more than just about the numbers. So how do you leverage understanding? How do you leverage empathy, um, when you're connecting with clients, especially high net worth clients? Sure.

Speaker B: Um, I guess one of the first things, like another trite phrase or whatever, is we have two ears and one mouth for a reason. Listen twice as much as you're otherwise going to talk. I have to understand what is important to that client, to that person. And from the empathy perspective, it's knowing that this is not just a financial transaction. It's what you said, Dave. Um, it's more than that. If it's a sale of a business, it's probably a business that has been in the family that this person has cultivated, grown, and it becomes an emotional transaction for them of having to give that thing up. Um, whether it's a litigation case, there is always the emotional side of things that become, um, important to people. Everybody wants to tell their story and being able to sit there and listen to their story and not just for the sake of sitting there and nodding your head. Like when your wife's talking to you, it's actually listening rather than hearing. And, uh, again, what they're not saying versus what they are saying, because that can be just as important. But it gets to the point of understanding and knowing why this is critical to them and how it's affecting them more than just their pocketbook, but in other aspects of their life. Um, I've been doing this long enough and have been through all sorts of, um, stories or things of why this is important to them. Sometimes I've sat there listening to people, business owners, cry because it's a difficult decision for them. And at some point, you're part psychologist, counselor, as well as a financial person. I can do everything perfectly with respect to the numbers. But if there's an emotional attachment to that, I have to understand that of saying, how is this going to impact it? Or how do I have to take that into consideration when I'm trying to help them through this whole process? Um, so it's not just being the best technician. Um, we all say valuation is art as well as science. The science piece of it is easy. We can all look up the formulas in the books. We can all apply financial theory, statistics, things like that. But it's the art side of things, and it's beyond, you know, that professional judgment, subjective piece. It is that emotional intelligence. It is that empathy. And the only way you're gonna do that is by sitting there and listening to somebody and understanding why this is important to them.

Speaker A: Okay, thank you, John. And for the record, just because we're recording this, I listen to every single word my wife says. Even while I'm sleeping. I pay careful attention, I take notes, and I listen and do everything she says and everything she wants. Harry, the question to you, please. The role of empathy info commercial.

Speaker D: I'm not sure.

Speaker A: The role of empathy and understanding in building trust, please.

Speaker C: Yeah, So I think on the empathy and building trust, what we try to do is try to give examples where other people have been in similar situations than the client. But a lot of times, too, what

Speaker D: I end up doing in order to

Speaker C: build trust is I always ask questions about the family. I asked how the grandkids are doing. I ask how the wife.

Speaker D: You know, what you're trying to do

Speaker C: is say that you understand, you want to know what's going on. Because sometimes when you do that, over

Speaker D: time, they really open up about what's bothering them. Okay?

Speaker C: And you got to do that on a consistent basis. You got to do it in the right place, too.

Speaker D: You can't do it with a bunch of people in the room. But when you have that phone call, when you have that time with them,

Speaker C: I think that's what really ends up building the trust because they know that you're sincere in a way that you ask the question and you just don't ask the same question each time.

Speaker D: I think, you know, that's very, very important.

Speaker C: So what I try to do is I try to keep notes all the

Speaker D: time in a little old fashioned here.

Speaker C: So I'll actually write things down because

Speaker D: I'll remember it and then I'll go

Speaker C: back a couple months later when I'm talking to them.

Speaker D: You know, how did that work out?

Speaker C: How's going, Whatever the case may be, not syrupy, but actually showing some genuine interest. So I think it's what John said, but I think also what John is also saying is, you know, you've done enough of these where you kind of know where the trigger points are. I do think when you're on these

Speaker D: important projects for them, it's important not

Speaker C: to be on a zoom. You got to do it face to face and find out what's really going on. And I think you need to emphasize that, you know, with the clients, even

Speaker D: if it's inconvenient and even if, no, you're not going to maybe charge them for every little hour that you're working on that. Remember, at the end of the day, it's the relationship. You're there because you're over it.

Speaker C: They know you're smart. The question is, is how are you going to do this for them? And remember too is when you're out

Speaker D: in the M community, they're working with

Speaker C: you as a reflection on them.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker C: Who they associate themselves with. So I think that's also important.

Speaker D: And the empathy factor and how we actually work with people now that's, uh.

Speaker B: I would also add, I'm sorry, Dave, is uh. A lot of times we've all had personal experiences and when we're talking with people and they're going through something, we want to have a connection with them. And so one of the ways that we do that everybody does, is by saying, oh, well, I've gone through something similar or I've had this situation there. It's a fine line where you're making the connection versus crossing it over and making it all about you rather than about them. So it's got to be careful that yes, you're creating a connection that I've gone through this, I've experienced. So I know what you're going through. But then don't turn it to make it all about what my experience was. It's listening to them of how their experiences go. When you need brain surgery, you go see a brain surgeon. You don't go to a general practitioner. So we have focused on a few things and made sure that we are the best at those particular things. And we're not afraid of referring somebody out that doesn't fit whatever it is we do because we know enough people. So, Dave, you mentioned, you know, why would I ever want to meet somebody that does what I do? Well, it's defining what you do that says, okay, I don't do this. Um, I don't value oil and gas interests. Never done it. I'm sure there it's easy or, uh, you know, an art to it or whatever that I could pick up on, but that's not my. That's where I'm not going to bring value. So I would refer that probably to somebody else. So making it clear that you have an expertise. But again, another Harryism. You know, I've. I've been working with Harry now, um, 36 and a half years. Harry, so June of 88, I was only five years old when you hired me. Um, nobody buys that anymore. Um, but it's making sure that, um, I forget where I was going with this, but making, um, sure that people. You're a business person first and almost a technician second. Um, it's understanding what the business deal is and how to get there and getting to the empathy, understanding what a business owner is most concerned with. It's not just about being the best technician, but being the best business person that you can ultimately be. You know, we say, don't let the tax tail wag the business dog. Um, it's those things. There's an objective that business owners have. Keeping that in mind is the perfect way of doing it. Um, I could give you the long story. I'll give you the bridge version of a case that I was working on where the other expert did the complete opposite of what the arbitration panel ordered them to do. And at the end of the day, the arbitration panel said, okay, well, you didn't do what we asked, but what are the tax consequences of it? And he said, geez, I don't know, maybe you could ask Mr. Alfonsi because he seems to be a tax expert as well as a valuation expert. From that point forward, the arbitration panel wanted nothing to do with the other expert. They would always turn to me and say, is that correct, John? Um, so again, it's demonstrating a business knowledge beyond your technical expertise.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think two things. One is I would, you know, focus in on, um, John says the business part. I would say it's the communication part with the clients. You got to break things down for

Speaker D: them in a way that, you know,

Speaker C: it's one on one. You can have a little different conversation,

Speaker D: but you're in a group.

Speaker C: You got to explain things in a

Speaker D: way that, you know, the client maybe not understand it, don't embarrass them, you

Speaker C: know, you know, give some analogies, do something along those lines and pay deference to them.

Speaker D: And there's very, very easy to do that.

Speaker C: But understand where John's coming from.

Speaker D: And by the way, one of the

Speaker C: ways John makes himself valuable, John, like today, this afternoon, he's doing a webinar on complex, uh, tax provisions and LLC agreements. You know, that's how you make yourself available. And so people can always go back

Speaker D: and take a look at that.

Speaker C: And that kind of goes back to, you have to make an investment. As whatever profession you're in, you have to make an investment, find out where

Speaker D: you can be the most impactful in making that investment. I don't mean dollars.

Speaker C: I'm talking about, like, what John's doing

Speaker D: with the books with a number of things. Or it could be, you know, on

Speaker C: the charitable side, it could be something in the community. Think about two or three places where

Speaker D: you can invest time, where it's going to be a good reflection, shows what you're really all about, because that's what

Speaker C: it is at the end of the day. So one of the things I do,

Speaker D: I try to read, read, read and read and be current on things.

Speaker C: So sometimes I will just call for our clients and say, hey, look, I saw this the other day. It might be of interest to you. It has nothing to do with their business, but I know they have other outside interests, and they want to stay abreast on things. So sometimes you need to have a conversation not about the consulting that you're

Speaker D: giving to them, but, you know, about life.

Speaker C: And you got to find those moments

Speaker D: in order to do that.

Speaker C: You know, might be, say, I thought this might be of interest to you or whatever the case may be.

Speaker D: So, Keith, let them know you're on top of it.

Speaker C: The other thing I would say is. Should have brought this up earlier.

Speaker D: When you are meeting with clients, we

Speaker C: always try to be the ones typing

Speaker D: up the agenda, preparing the agenda, because

Speaker C: instead of just coming into that meeting

Speaker D: with your notepad and the pen, you want people to think that you actually thought about what you're going to talk

Speaker C: about and discuss beforehand. And the way to do that is

Speaker D: for you to become the scrivener of the agenda.

Speaker C: And if you do that and everyone's coming to you to say, hey, I

Speaker D: need to add this to the agenda,

Speaker C: that, that has served us exceedingly well.

Speaker B: Yeah. The, uh, the communication side as well is what Harry touched on is being able to communicate, um, in a, in a manner that they can communicate, understand. I don't try to impress people with how smart I am by talking about beta and standard deviations and all of that, because a wise person once told me, again, I'm giving away all my nuggets of wisdom here.

Speaker D: Um, that's what you're supposed to do, John.

Speaker B: That's exactly right. If it's got a Greek symbol or a Latin phrase, stay away from it, because people aren't going to understand what that means. But so one of the things, again, differentiating myself or how to do that is being able to communicate. Communicate clearly. It's why I teach in my master's program. It's why I do the webinars. Um, it's what I do for my clients. If I can explain something in a way that somebody that doesn't have that technical expertise that understands it, after I tell them I can see their heads nodding, then I've done my job, they've understood what it is I've done. There's far too many people that just try to focus on how smart I am, and this is why you should hire me. We had a client, Harry and I, both, that we introduced her, made a referral to some wealth managers. He sat there and was going on and on about alpha and beta and risk assessment. She didn't understand a word of it. And she just looked at me afterwards and like, unless you're going to interface for me with this person, I have no idea what they're talking about. Um, so that just wasn't a good fit. And with respect to, you know, what Harry was saying about the, you know, passing along the article showing that you have an interest in somebody beyond just

Speaker C: their immediate need, what we try to do is we try to go to

Speaker D: two or three people that we have an open mind or willing to share

Speaker C: ideas and try to get them to collaborate on those. They know that it's not going to turn necessarily in the business, but how

Speaker D: that could then apply.

Speaker C: So one of the wealth advisors, we

Speaker D: were working on a very, very tax,

Speaker C: uh, technical issue, and it was a little aggressive.

Speaker D: So we went to them, they had

Speaker C: their own internal expert.

Speaker D: At the end of the day, they

Speaker C: agreed with us and now they're applying

Speaker D: it to all their clients, even though we don't work on those clients.

Speaker C: So the idea here is that we're

Speaker D: just not going to work with you on, uh, the routine and the mundane.

Speaker C: We're going to come up with some

Speaker D: other ideas even if we don't benefit from it directly. Okay.

Speaker C: Because that's how you share, that's how

Speaker D: you get that collaboration.

Speaker C: That's true collaboration, not just lip service. Yeah.

Speaker B: The other thing I would add is being respectful of the other professionals and their client relationship. Many times we are brought in to fill a specific need, um, or a specific service. I want to be respectful of that and treat that referral source or who brought us in almost as the client. I'm not looking to steal their client. I'm, um, trying to provide a valuable service and valuable information, trying to make them look good as well. And I would expect the same side or the same type of respect for us that when we bring in somebody, they're not trying to steal the client from us, but we are working together based on providing services for the need of the client without backstabbing each other. Um, now we've had a client back guarantee. I've done work for other CPA firms before that maybe don't have evaluation or a dispute advisory type practice or, um, I've given tax training to other CPA firms that, you know, may be considered my competitors. Um, now I would say that we're more advanced that they are, but I don't have a problem with that because again, I respect them, that they're not going to take that information and try and steal my clients for me, just the same way that I am not going to steal their clients from them.

Speaker A: So, gentlemen, I want to ask you how you handle these generational shifts. I mean, you guys literally span the millennial, uh, geniuses all the way through to the matriarchs and patriarchs of the family. Is there anything different about dealing with, uh, some of the younger folks, uh, who are successful, who maybe looking at an exit versus people who are generational, who are, uh, who are looking at an exit.

Speaker C: I would say the millennials are. They really, really want your advice.

Speaker D: They want to be in the leading edge. The one thing you have to be

Speaker C: careful about is they are extremely well read and I would say actually better

Speaker D: connected with a lot of other professionals.

Speaker C: So you got to be on top

Speaker D: of your game probably a little bit more than let's say the older generation. But they are extremely well read. They're prepared for your meetings.

Speaker C: Um, it's actually a nice challenge. And sometimes you got to say, hey, guys, this isn't for you.

Speaker D: You're 40 years old.

Speaker C: This is not going to work for you.

Speaker D: And you got to tell them.

Speaker C: So I think there is a focal point where you have to say, look,

Speaker D: we thought about five things.

Speaker C: I'm only going to talk to you about two.

Speaker D: The other three we're not going to talk about because you're too young. We got a lot more runways. We got a lot of other things to do where you might have to talk about those other three things.

Speaker C: So you do have to do it

Speaker D: from an age, you know, what's age appropriate for the planning and make sure that people aren't going down rabbit holes. John, I don't know what you think.

Speaker B: Yeah, the one thing I would add to that is, yeah, there's certain things that define each generation. Um, whether you call it stereotyping or whatever. You know, the baby boomers, where the hard workers put in the hours and feel that it's, you know, the rewards come from the service. You put in the Gen Xers where the lazy generation wanted everything coming to them. Uh, the millennials are the people that are asking the questions, why the Gen Zers. And, um, the new ones, probably not even old enough now.

Speaker D: What are they called?

Speaker B: The Alpha generation. Um, it's good to understand that in terms of generalities, but the end of the day, we're dealing with individuals, and so you can keep that in mind. But you got to understand what's important to each person. I've run into people that were, um, you know, call it millennials, but are old souls. You know, you never would have guessed. They don't match that genuine, that stereotypical definition of a millennial. So you got to be careful when you apply generalities to somebody very, very specific. So it's good to know it. As Harry said, it's. That's your starting point. But I would say know that person and figure out what's important to them and who they are individually and tailor your. Whatever your advice or how your presentation is to them specifically.