Why Memes Beat Rage Bait for Real Revenue Growth

Meme marketing can drive millions of impressions and actually create revenue for businesses. It's totally in contrast to this, like, ragebait marketing that's going viral right now and everybody's talking about. It's actually effective at both getting the impressions and driving that revenue because you can use memes to talk to people's actual pain points, which makes them feel understood, which makes it easier to sell your solution to them. In today's episode, that's what we're going deep on, is how to use memes to market your businesses. And my guest to talk about this is Jason Levin. Jason is the co-founder of a company called Memelord.com. It's an AI-powered meme generator and editor. And we're going to talk about the difference between memes and rage bait marketing, how to actually use memes in your marketing stack, where does it fit, and some really tactical stuff that they're doing. For example, they're basically buying, uh, the Twitter accounts, like the organization Twitter accounts, where you spend like $1,000 a month and that allows for you to have like sub people within those accounts that are associated. And then they spin up meme accounts in relationship to those. So imagine 10 different accounts that are going after 10 different like target customer pain points and then scheduling memes out across all of those. And Once you're making these memes and getting these leads, you need to be able to track your data across your entire stack. And that's where graft.com comes in to help you. Graft is an AI agent for marketing analytics. You connect all of your data sources and you can get insights in minutes from all of your marketing data. Graft functions as a data pipeline, a data warehouse, and also the visualization tool. You can have zero data literacy and use Graft. All you need to be able to do is speak English. An example of what you can build with this is you can have your Google Analytics, your Google Ads, your Facebook Ads, your Search Console, your HubSpot, your post hoc, all of your data sources that you rely on as a marketing or a product person you can have within the application and create the visualizations that you need without having to go to a data engineer or somebody else on your team. Because we know how that is. All of these engineers have limited bandwidth and all of their bandwidth should be focused on creating products that is client-facing, that is user-facing. And I'm going to hook you up. I'm going to give you a 14-day free trial of Graph that comes with 10 seats for you and your team. Just click the link into the description below and you're going to be able to set that up. And with that said, let's get started. With today's show. Dude, Jason, what's up? Long time coming, man. I feel like this one is like an inevitability, but I know it was. It was. I think you were on my pod a few years ago and then we've stayed— It's crazy, man. It feels forever ago, which is wild. So we— dude, we both are very committed to the bit. You, you wearing the same turtleneck and chain. I got my backwards black hat. You know, it's 100%, man. You gotta live the meme. I don't think people understand how— like, we actually have the data on this. My team— I tried to get rid of it, and they're like, yo, you can't get rid of it because the, the clips do way better when you're like dressed like that. My wife likes it better with the backwards hat, so I just, you know, I've always wanted— so it's like, you know, I just stick to it sometimes. I love it, man. Enough about our fashion. We're not exactly models, but it's all good. No, not at all. But So, okay, jumping straight into it. Just before we were on the, you know, started recording, we were talking about kind of what's happening in this like rage bait meme marketing. You're a meme marketing expert. I think you do an unbelievable job at this and know this like, you know, deeper than anybody. I'm really curious your opinion. I have my own and I'll like surface those as we talk about it, but I'm curious your thoughts before, you know, I, I, yeah. So I tweeted this other day. I think rage bait is stupid. I don't rage bait. I smart bait and I laugh bait. I think rage bait is really good. Good at getting attention of stupid people and then smart people to yell at you. And if you want to make a lot of money, you sell your product to smart people, not stupid people, because smart people have money. I don't know how else to say it. And so like the friend.com campaign, retarded. All these campaigns, just so stupid. You know, like I'm not even talking just like the atmosphere of like the marketing, but like, most Subway campaigns are stupid. Like, add in, you know, attacking people or the stupidity of it, even dumber. And basically, like, if you want to sell to smart people, you make them laugh, you teach them something, you don't make them angry because smart people pick up that you're trying to trick them. Dumb people might not pick that up and maybe they'll go buy your product that increases your, you know, your wiener size or maybe it's your whatever it might be, right? Like something stupid. Okay, fine. You know, these guys who are trying to sell tech, really expensive tech to smart people. Maybe you guys were meant to go sell, you know, I don't know, fat pills to fat people or hair loss pills to, you know, like maybe that's what you guys were meant to do. But like smart people buy products because it'll make them more money. It'll make them happy. They respond to smart things and laughter. You know, meme marketing at the end of the day, we don't, we don't do that at all. We make people laugh and billionaires like to laugh. Smart people like to laugh. Everybody likes to laugh. I think what you're saying too is like it's a classic where it's like satire is what works. Like money people, like people who have money love satire and like commentary on social, like, you know, things that are occurring. Like getting somebody to be frustrated or angry. Like a lot of people, I think that like have that can tune that out too. Like they're like, oh, this is like, they can see behind the curtain and it's like, I don't care. You know, I have a, my, my, my classic is like, I don't give a fuck if I get 100,000 views. Like the easiest way to think about this is like if you get 100,000, like say, say you get 100,000 views. And each one of those people has like a dollar of money that they can spend, right? Compare that if like, if I get 1,000 views, but all those people have $100 that they can spend, right? Like what is gonna be more valuable? And it's like, it's just that, that's the math that this ends up being. And for some reason, I, again, I can't wrap my head around it. We'll see if it fucking works. People are like advocating for this. Yeah, it's, it's not working. I mean, already the boys, you know, Friend, clearly stuff like that, they're already, you know, back, backpilling and, and recent articles saying that it's not working. And it's obvious that, It's not working because like you don't make sales by making people angry. Like anybody who like grew up making sales, you do that by building real relationships with people. And I think it's just a symptom of the Gen Alpha Instagramification where mass virality and flexing and lying about money, which is what has taken over Silicon Valley to another level. It's been really disgusting, honestly. People are just constantly lying about fake numbers, rage baiting. It makes everybody feel like shit. And then they go bankrupt and then we all laugh and you're like, why, why are we laughing? Because you guys lied the whole time and we knew it. And it's like, I think trust too is how you make a purchasing decision, right? And like the erosion of trust of the, of the brand over time. So like my background, I came from B2B marketing, like at a marketing agency, like that was like, you know, it's literally, they like helped companies like Fortune 500 sell doors, windows, and like fucking wood that you put in a house, right? Like, The, the, the level of trust that's necessary for like that purchasing decision of like, yo, we're going to buy, you know, 10,000 bathtubs to put in like every Holiday Inn Express in the United States, like that type of thing. It's like a totally different— and so I guess what I'm saying, like coming into this is like, if I'm trying, you know, to sell, for example, you have two of the same products that have product, you know, that feature parity and one has this brand that has like this like rage bait negativity and the other one is kosher, right? And like totally like approachable. And I'm trying to sell that to a middle manager, right? Like the middle manager is going to be there. They're only purchasing software based off of like what is going to not get them fired, right? And so what is the better bet, right? So I wouldn't fully agree. So I think yes and no. So I think the really, you know, smart, savvy managers and especially at tech companies, they will take more risks, you know, to buy software. But that being said, they're still not going to buy something because it's ragebaiting them. They're going to buy it because of a feature. And or because of something smart or what it'll allow. Like no matter what, rage bait isn't working. Like the sales are low and it's just not like going to build trust over time. Like, but, but whereas like something like memes, right? Exactly what you said earlier around niche. Like we run niche accounts in HR, IT, tech, etc. that lead to sales in those departments that have extremely high CACs and have extremely high LTVs. And that's where the money is, right? And that's, you know, why Polymarket, why Kalshi, they all spend so much on media because the CACs are high, right? Why all these finance IT companies spend so much, why they buy media companies even, why HubSpot bought The Hustle, why Stripe bought IndieHackers, right? And so you do that by building trust, not by insulting people and ragebaiting and lying. It's like, it's very weird discussion that we're having right now in Silicon Valley. It's like, Funny marketing has been around forever. Like I say this again and again, and this was a big part of my pitch as we raised $3 million, was like, it's not a new concept. Like memes, yes, they're like new or a late iteration of it, but like funny marketing, as you know, like it's been around for hundreds and hundreds of years. It's not going away and it works forever. And that's why it works for our accounts where we're working with these, you know, unicorns in these boring spaces. We do funny, funny content. And it drives sales to the smart people, right? Totally. I don't know, man. I think the people who are out here ragebaiting, I mean, you're willing to burn so much trust and attention and respect just for views. And I think it's a symptom of the Instagramification, you know, these kids growing up and stuff like that. And I don't know, I look like I'm 14, I'm 28. So like I grew up and like actually like have been making shit since I was 12 or, you know, 11 or 12. Like I haven't, I didn't grow, you know, when I grew up on Instagram, my first photo was taking a picture of a squirrel. Like, you know, I didn't grow up where Instagrammers were famous. And I think like that's what we're seeing right now. And it's very bad for society and Silicon Valley in general. I think the thing too is like— I think we're heading towards a lot of bankruptcy. Totally. I think it's stemming too from like a lot of like the course or like community creators and they're like, yo, yeah, you can go and make a million a year like off of this, right? Like ragebaiting people into this, this whole thing. But like if you're trying to make a sustainable company that does $100 million like a year, right? Like that's, that's really hard. Also like to get to that scale, like that's a Ponzi scheme, you know? Like the product doesn't end up like— there's a reason. Yeah. There's a reason why Tai is, uh, doesn't he, isn't he getting, uh, you know? Yeah, dude. I think the feds are after him. It's ridiculous. That's actually a great. I think there's something really good there around like, yes, that works. Like if you want to sell dating advice or hair coach, go do that. Like the guys at Clue.ly, they left the scammers. Two of them left to go start a viral marketing rage bait company. Now they're working for a company. I'm not going to name names, but they came to me first and I rejected them because he wanted us to lie a ton. Right. And like, not going to name names here, but like you can imagine who. And if you're deep in this world, you might, you might know if you're on there. And all they do is just lie. And lie and lie. They say they spent this, they say they raised this, they say they bought a new car. All lies, just all lies. And like, that doesn't work long term. That works for selling courses, going to jail. And I personally would rather not do either of those. I'm trying to build a big company and, um, I don't know. I, it's, it's definitely, uh, like, you know me, dude. I'm over here. It's honestly a sanity check for me. Cause I was, I'm over here and I'm like, dude, am I missing something? Like I've been doing this 10+ years too, right? I'm like, this doesn't feel. I'm very, very online. You know that, like my whole business is being online, but like I've had to even like, like I'm like, bro, am I crazy? And then I see something. I'm like, no, I'm not crazy. I have to like remind my team again and again. I'm like, oh yeah. Like, like I feel myself. I'm like, should I be spending more money? Should I be spending more money? And like the Jew in me is like, no, obviously not. But then you see like these crazy fuckers who are spending this, which they actually aren't, and they're just lying. And you realize, oh my God, they're just lying. And it's impacting my mental health. It's like the fucking, like, dude, it's literally Lil Dicky, you know, of like when he's realizing that all these rappers are just leasing cars and stuff. And like, I'm basing our entire company off of Lil Dicky saved that money because like, you realize all these other people are just lying. They're all just the private jet they rent in. That's their VCs. The, the, it's their dads. It's like, it's all just lies everywhere. Totally. And like, I hate it. So yeah, again, I think it just comes to like, if you're trying to like secure huge contracts and go like, you know, mid-level or enterprise, there's just no way you can sell this. Again, I mean, you're, you're in the B2B space. We are selling B2B memes. We just closed a $54,000 contract for B2B. Let's go, baby. Congrats, dude. Like, that's amazing. Right? And like, we did that by me meeting the person in person, texting conversations, right? That's it. Like, like, I don't know. I think there's a huge arbitrage in like what we're doing of actual personality and, and conversations. Like in today's world where everybody is sending AI outbound emails all the time, like where's arbitrage, it's in like, let's go grab steak. Like, let's go grab coffee. Let me buy you a $10 coffee 'cause nobody else is doing that. You know, like, and, and actually go do that. Like, it's the opposite of rage bait. It's called building trust. Like, totally. Yeah. I don't know why I just always go back to like, this is just sales. Like, it's just, this is sales 101 and people are trying to like, oh, because AI's here now we have to do everything with AI. No, just like actually just build relationships. Like, I think to your point, like, yeah, that is the arb. And like, what my mantra has been lately is like, like basically like relationships around the world. Like, how do I get in as like tight and deep of relationships as possible? It's funny, I had a call yesterday, a guy, like, I basically ex-Vice, now building an media company. It was just like an intro from a friend, basically like, yo, you need to meet this person. And he's like, immediately on the call, he's like, I have a parasocial relationship with you. I'm gonna already say that I probably spent, you know, whatever, 100 hours listening to your content.. And just like thinking about that and the depth of that in comparison to like, here's a rage bait, TikTok that went viral, that's 30 seconds long. Like what is going to create more impact for my business long-term? Like that single relationship with that person binging 100 hours. Right. So anyways, 100%, man. And that's why like people might hate on blogs, stuff like that. But like people, like I have a crazy thing happened. So Somebody at one of Mark Cuban's companies has been reading my blog for 2 years, right? And like, we're not close or anything, but he's just been reading it. And then, you know, literally like 2 weeks ago, he introduces me to a potential client. Then I send out my merch, uh, 'cause we just launched some new merch and he buys a bunch of it. And like, it's just like, like high up at Cuban's companies, right? Like the holding co, right? It's like from the blog and telling these stories and people get to see with you and grow and they don't see that with, 10-second, 30-second clips. Totally. And, you know, that sounds— I had a boss tell me this. He's like, rich people only listen to things that are long or read things that are long. And I was like, holy shit. Like, I feel like that's— that's their filter though, right? It's like, that's their filter for like, what is good is like, is this long and is it well thought out? Because like, to write long things and to make long pieces of content, you have to like think— what's funny though, it's kind of— it kind of is Barbell where it's either super long or it's a meme. Totally. Like you think about Elon, he's either reading a 500-page book or he's just tweeting a meme. But like the in-between of like the 2-minute Instagram video, which like they're fun to make, I make 'em too. But like, like those people, I, I feel like they're not as watch— it's one or the other. And like, I know personally, like I prefer one or the other. I don't know about you, but like I prefer like give me a quick, quick one-line tweet, which you're the king of. Or give me like a 400-page book about the history of capitalism. Like, totally. I don't want in the middle and I don't want 100%. Also, like, I don't know about you, man, but like running a business and like, you know, relationships, life is already stressful enough. I don't need more stress from people lying to me and purposely trying to piss me off. I don't, I just don't need that. So I will block you if you are stressing me out. It's just like dopamine hijacking and everybody I know that's smart is like actively trying to like take back like that, you know, basically like part of their life. And so it's like, okay, what are the smart people doing? That means that all these other people will follow this. So like, yeah, again, I, maybe it works to your point. I think it's like you made a really valid point. Like if you're trying to sell like weight loss or hair pills, right? Yeah. There's a way that you could do that. Right. I think a lot of those guys who we're seeing right now, they're going to start courses. They're going to, they're going to do that. They're going to, they're going to sell how to code. They're going to sell how to, how to, how to raise funds. There's a lot of that. When you, you know, there, there we, you know, there's a lot of that and like, I don't know if your friends are, you know, mutual. I think we have a lot of mutual friends with like, you think about like the Sweaty Startup Guy, right? Like the book sales were abysmal. I think I sold more books and mine wasn't professionally published. Right. Uh, but like, because all he does is rage bait and lie and like, dude, nobody who reads a book is going to read a book full of rage baits and lies. You know what kills me with that? Sorry. I'm just, I've said this like in other places, uh, not recorded, but What kills me with all of these gurus is they're like, yeah, go and start these like sweaty businesses. And then they take their money that they get and they go and they buy digital marketing companies because their free cash flow is stupid and they can be run from anywhere. Like, what do they all go purchase? It's literally like marketing agencies that specialize in like marketing car washes and shit. It's, it's, it kills me, man. So they're just like, not even like, I don't know. They're not even like eating what they're serving. It's, it's insane. So anyway, we've gone down a rabbit hole. We have you here, king of memes. Talk to me. Yes. All right. So talk to me about what you're doing. It's so fascinating. I feel like it's such a huge arbitrage that like people don't even know exists. Like I didn't know this existed until like a friend of a friend who's working with you, uh, basically like I was like, oh, this is super fascinating. I need to talk to Jason. It's been a minute. So yeah, of course. So memelord.com is where you take your memes more seriously than anybody else. We are— that's on the domain too. Hell yeah. Dude, again, bought it for $25 grand, man. Everybody's flexing about $1 million domains. I got my shit for cheap, you know, negotiated it. Like, I'm not, I'm not out here to flex about how much money I spent. I'd rather flex how much I save. I bought it also before the VC money. Fun fact. All right, back to the point. Sorry, I'm outjewing the entire audience right now. I love it, baby. This is why we're here. I know, I know. But so memelord.com, it's meme marketing software. Where, you know, it's built for CMOs. It is built for, you know, marketing teams at public companies and startups especially. And so what we do is we scan the internet all the time for the newest trending viral memes and meme templates. We alert our users of that via text, via Telegram, via email all throughout the day. They get it, then they open the app and go edit it. The memes are already right in there. And we have all the craziest tools from face swapping, AI image editing, you know, any template, AI AI meme making, full stack, you know, save your projects, anything you can imagine. Mobile's coming out very soon as well. And so that is, you know, what we're doing is building this out for the generation of CMOs and marketers who want to take advantage of humor as a lever. Humor, I don't think humor's your only lever. I think a lot of people think that I only believe that, or a lot of people think I think every brand should do it. I don't. It's just a lever to pull. Just like anything else, right? Like, you know, to play in the playbook, it's just a play. And if you're a smart marketer, you're going to leverage humor. You're going to also— you're going to do a lot of smart, you know, long posts. You're going to do serious stuff. You're going to do everything. But it's just a lever. And we are— we want to be that the best lever in the world for that. So yeah, we raised $3 million from Sam Lessin, Slow Ventures. I know you raised— congrats, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So raised $3 mil. Sam Lessin. Sion Bannister, biology, Serena Vossen, a bunch more. And really it's, I think there's a much bigger play here working with some of these big companies to really seize the means of production and give them the tools to do that. And go forward. I love the homepage, by the way. I'm just like looking at it in the background here. I just want to show the audience here, 'cause it's so good. Now we got the sword too. I gotta incorporate that in the homepage. My wife went to Japan and so she literally just got me a sword and I'm so happy. And so we got— I'm trying to build one of those keyboard guns too, but I need to figure out how to do that legally in New York. You can't even buy like an airsoft gun here, bro. It's terrible. I don't know where you're based, but I'm trying to get out of here if I can. I'm in Idaho right now. I can hook you up. So yeah, I know, dude. My, uh, my CEO's in Montana. He's like, oh, we could just walk next door to grab some guns. I love it, man. I love it. Yeah. What I just— what jumped out at me though is like, you can't scroll on this homepage. It literally is like All you can do is click free trial or login. Oh, you can scroll now. What do you mean? Can you or no? Yeah, I'm tripping. You should be able to. What's going on? Yeah. Okay. Maybe, maybe not. I'm like over here, folks. Maybe on your, your computer. I mean, I can definitely see it. This is on Chrome, but anyways, I just think that it's like, it's a very, uh, it, the simplicity of it is what makes it rip. Like a lot of these things that end up being this, so. Safari. I don't know what's going on. That's so funny. Do you want me to like give a, give a demo at all or something? Yeah, dude, I would love that. Let's just jump right into that. So Jason, you talked about it. Show, show us what this looks like so that the, like the person that's, if you're on Apple Podcasts, go to YouTube right now and watch it so that you can actually see how this looks. Yes. So, all right. Can you see my screen? I can see it. Yep. All right, cool. So earlier I was working on a new startup idea, cuckchairs with AI note takers built in. 'Cause every, you know, startup is an AI note taker these days, so might as well just build the hardware function too, right? And earlier as well, like a record label signed up for Memelord. We, for whatever reason, we're getting a lot of record labels, which is pretty cool 'cause I love music marketing. It was one of my first passions. And so on the left side you could see we have all the newest trending memes. So all throughout the day, these bad boys are getting sent via text to you. And so then you jump in and you're actually able to see it. And so one of the cool features that people absolutely love is like, how is a meme actually used? You just click see examples and you can see that's my friend Molly. And over here, Alex Karp, CEO of Palantir. And you can kind of just see all these different forms of using this, using the meme. And it just makes it a lot easier if you're not as terminally online as somebody like me and even somebody like me, I don't even know how memes are used sometimes, but you're able to do, you know, anything you possibly imagine from, you know, just dropping simple text of like, you know, let's say like rage bait, you know, follow up on that conversation earlier to like, you know, we'll call it Silicon Valley and, you know, let's fix the text a little, whatever we might want to do. And sorry, there's some Google Chrome thing in there. So here we go. And so you could kind of see it's just like very easy to make memes, export quickly., and we also have a bunch of AI tools, which I will show you as well. And so say we wanted to have some fun, maybe switch the Red Bull for coffee, we could easily do that. And so I'll, uh, give that a try too. But yeah, man, the idea is like software. Dude, this is so sick. I appreciate it. So the idea is like, make it really fun to spend time on. Um, and you know, it, it makes, it's just fun. Like there's been a lot of meme software out there and it's all the same thing. It's just static image. But with an infinite canvas, you could just constantly iterate on ideas. And this is like where I iterate on all my stupid ideas. Like, you know, oh, here we go. All right, so now we just switch the Red Bull for cold brew, right? But like this, when, when Meta came out with their Ray-Bans, I just, you know, told it to switch it with an eggplant. Or, you know, switch it with the money sign, right? And so like, to me, it's a kind of like a creative, fun canvas. And when we get a bunch of signups, I do that. And, you know, there's like endless things you could do— replacing yourself, memeing yourself, a nice little beeper for memelord.com. I got to get those bad boys built. But yeah, man, like, I think in general marketers, they're, they're their workflow tends to be open up the software, see what's trending, click examples, and then figure out how they could cook. So if they want to add text, they could do that. If they want to download and just like quickly do that, they could do that. If they want to see stickers, you know, they could check that out. If they want to see all the classics that everybody knows and loves, they could do that. And so I feel like just the aggregation alone is like so valuable of like what is trending at this moment. And then those examples, because like Again, to your point, like if you're, if you don't even know that this meme is like going viral in a single place, right? Like how do you know what's basically like how to use this? So I feel like that is so like so valuable. And there's these other tools that are like this too. I feel like, you know, you see this with TikTok in particular a lot of the time where it's like trying to find outliers. There's like hundreds of these companies that exist that are basically scraping all the data and then like putting it into., you know, format for you where it's like, here's a drip feed of what's working currently. Yeah, dude. Exactly. And so like, it's infinitely remixable, which is like what's such a fun part is like, I use this template all the time for like all sorts of things. You could just kind of see all the different examples. There's one of mine. Um, and like there's just endless kind of examples. And so, um, yeah, marketers, I mean, look, it's, uh, it's, it's kind of a premier tool. It's $42 a month, $42.0 for 420. And, um, but But if you're not making your money back, like it's a kind of a skill issue. Like we like to say— Can we click down on this like idea of like you can remix them? 'Cause like I think about content velocity now more than anything of like, how do I make enough like variations at scale, right? Across all these different— so, all right. So say you had like 100 different ideas around this or you wanted to use this, like, you know, maybe it's, you know, we say marketers and like What are the things that like fuel marketers? And you could do 10 different things and then you could do this, like say you wanted to run an automated account. We're running automated meme accounts now, right? So you wanted to push it across many different variations. You could do this. And so, you know, maybe it's, it's Graft. Sorry, my, my computer's lagging, but maybe it's Graft and maybe, you know what, let's say like product analytics, right? And then you use this for the Graft account because it's like a little, it's funny, it's more relatable, right? Like the idea of is more relatable. And then you like, maybe you want to put the Graft icon here, right? A little watermark there. We have one client that does a lot of that and like it helps them spread really well with their own watermark, which I think is smart. Speaking of that, one smart thing that I think we've done that, that people are always, you know, very surprised about is we don't force watermarks on you and you're paying user of our software. Why would we force a watermark on you? Also, our software is for marketers. Do you want my brand conflating with Graft? Absolutely not. You know, it's like 100% not use this thing, right? That's what I'm saying. Like, and so many meme softwares don't take it seriously enough or they don't understand how marketers are using it. A real marketer doesn't want a watermark at the bottom of their social posts like this. That's just not how a marketer works. Maybe some crypto anon or they don't care or whatever, but Um, yeah, man, that's, uh, you know, our thesis and it's, it's constantly improving and, and, uh, and updating. But, uh, you know, what, oh wait, speaking of velocity, let's, uh, let me show you something cool. So you know how AI is not like perfect every time, right? Like everybody knows this. So what we did was we want to create 10 variations of a meme that way, cuz not everyone's gonna be perfect. Let's just choose the funniest, right? So it's creating 10 variations right now. You'll slap it on the canvas and then you choose what are the funny ones, right? Actually, that one's pretty solid. That, that, that, that sounds like graft in a, in a good way. Everybody gets a dashboard. Um, there, oh dude, there you go. Right? Like, and so I could just quickly export these, right? Yeah, it's perfect. Dude, this is amazing. Right, right. And so like, obviously not everyone's good. Like, okay, I mean, this one's kind of long, whatever, but like,, you know, some enough are good where, you know, people love it where you just— what is the dragon one? Oh my God. Nice. Nice, dude. Yeah, man. So this is, this is Memelord. Um, you know, it's, it's constantly improving. We're constantly, uh, updating it, adding new features, making it easier. Um, let me show you, uh, something, something pretty sick that we just launched too. Um, this is our like, quick version. So we're calling it Quickies. And so what I just showed you before is like for the pro users, like really advanced, you know, but say you just want to just jump in really quick and you want to just quickly, you know, edit, edit in a little caption here. And so this is more like what people are familiar with where it's like, you know, quickly just adding in, you know, marketer, VC, I don't know, I guess it'd be like VC, You know, founder, something like that, you know, where it's the VC showing off. Like we, we, we added this to just make it a little faster, these quickies. And then I'm very excited about this, our meme streak as well. So if you get 7 days, which people have already done, they're getting free prizes all the time, which is really exciting as well. So I love it, man. I love it. Okay, so we talked about like building content at scale. How— let's get into like the tactical stuff now of how do you actually go and schedule this? How are you running the multiple accounts? Maybe we start with the multiple accounts, Jason, and like that arbitrage that exists right now on Twitter in particular. I don't know if you're doing this other places as well, but let's start there and then let's talk about the scheduling and your process like that. The first thing you need to understand about multiple accounts is to embrace your schizophrenia and, and full on, like you should be method acting, you know what I'm saying? For your multiple accounts of like, what is this person's vibe or character's vibe or whatever? You know, we're running accounts and like like, you know, where they are fake Italian ladies who like work in HR, like full on, bro. Like my employee's downstairs and we're talking for 20 minutes of like, what does this character think about? Like, what does he do for a living? You know, what does he like? So that's the first step if you really want to commit to the bit. The second is like, we're all remix machines, right? And like, I think a lot of people are afraid to like post content because, oh, it's not Monet, it's not the, you know, not everything has to be like most original artwork ever. And I know for me, like, that used to screw with me a lot when I was 16, 17. And I think what I realized was, like, humans have been around for tens of thousands of years. It's very egotistical to think that we could all be coming up with original shit all the time. We're all remixing stories, we're all remixing Bible stories and biblical, you know, stories forever, right? And so I think my advice, and I feel like you and I both do this a lot on Twitter, is we see a tweet like, oh, that's cool. Let me remix it to my idea. What's my take of it? And don't just reply, actually go tweet it. And it makes it a lot easier. And so when it comes to running large-scale accounts or a bunch of accounts, because we're running dozens, it's like, how do you constantly just like ship? Like the velocity of it is like first thoughts, the best thoughts sometimes are like, especially with memes and humor, it's like the, like the first thing like that you think of, like sometimes it's just faster. Also when it comes to scheduling, I guess this is a little more tactical, is like we just don't do anything fancy. We just use Buffer, to be honest. Like, I hate it, to be honest. It's a piece of shit software that's 15 years old, but like nobody's done anything better. Like, I don't know what else to say. I have a friend building a scheduler right now that's like built for this age, and I'm so excited for it to be live. It's basically just like tons of account, like unlimited accounts, and then you pay on a per post basis. But imagine you just drop in all the media and it just schedules it to the time slots that you predefined. So like you can go and schedule, you know, I write 70 tweets a week as an example, but I just want to be able to be like, yo, here's what you like, here's the media, go schedule this out. And it does that. And I like, I think that's where it's coming from. I've tried all of them. Why I like Buffer is it has an API. And so we, we do do that sometimes where we're surfacing content, especially for meme pages. We're doing that sometimes. So you can imagine how that would work is just surfacing it from across the web. And since we already have everything like scraped scraping all the time for our meme software or scanning the internet. It's a very similar process. So I mean, did they give you unlimited posting? I didn't realize they have an API. That's a really good insight. Buffer. Buffer. Yeah. I mean, it looks like there's unlimited scheduled posts. Yes. I'm assuming you can unlimited posts. I mean, it's very cheap. It's like $12 per user or something or per thing. And so we probably, I mean, we run 20 accounts making us a lot more than whatever we pay, $300 and like, I don't know. I mean, Buffer's, it's old, it's a piece of shit, but like it works, it gets the job done. Totally. Yeah. I don't know. Sometimes, man, like you get it as well as like once you're signed up to like too much software, there's like, it actually slows you down. And so I'm kind of just trying to like, ah, you know, who cares? Let's just, it's good enough. No, totally. It solves the issue. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. So, so scheduling, that sounds good. Um, talk to me about this like play that you guys run where it's like you get the X X, whatever, I don't know what the account type is called where it's like you pay the $5,000 a year or whatever it is. And then is that what it is? Yeah. Oh, the verified orgs. The verified orgs. And then you basically run these meme accounts under verified orgs. So sick. Talk to me about that and just lay it out for the audience. So it started very organically. So it costs $1,000 per month for X to get a verified org, which then gives you a gold badge, which who cares about that? But what it does is it lets you give affiliate badges to people., and those affiliate badges then cost an extra $50 per head. Um, and so I gave them at first to our employees, um, and then I, uh, gave them to our accounts and, uh, you know, power users and also our, some of our VCs, uh, who wanted them as well. 'Cause hey, you invest 10 grand, I think I could afford 50 bucks, you know? Um, but basically like the, the process is like being very selective with it. Because there have been a lot of cases where, like, I've had to remove people who've said some, like, heinous shit. Crazy shit. Yeah. So we've had to become a lot more selective. Also, like, being very realistic about the ROI. Like, I'm going to be honest here, is like, I don't know the exact ROI of this. And if you're strapped for cash, this is not your move. This is like my cheap version. This is two things. It's my cheap version of Subway ads. Instead of spending a million, let me get, you know, posts with our logo retweeted onto Elon's page. Right. Right. And then the second thing is like, or three things. Second thing is being everywhere, ubiquity, like being everywhere is priceless in my business. Right. But it's not every business, you know, like a lot of people have asked me if they should do it and it's like you run like, you know, something completely unrelated, but like I run a meme business where our whole business is being terminally online. Like we have to be everywhere. So I don't know. I think it works very well if it's, if it's the right fit. If you're in a social media business, I think everybody should do it. But like outside of that, I think only really the C-suite need it. To be honest, I think you see a lot of people starting these and then quitting it because it gets too expensive and they're not seeing an ROI. But for us, you know, we see the ROI because it's our business. So I've— Dude, that's so crazy to me because like, I— we drive from my Twitter alone, we drive like like 10,000 click plus clicks a month. Like from just like, and all I do is I like, so I basically have an automation where like after every tweet, an hour later, it does a thread that's like this, you know, this shit post is brought to you by X. Yeah. Yeah. By X. And then it's just an ad for Graft basically. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm just over here and I'm thinking, I'm like, oh, I go and I get a verified org and then I'll spin up meme accounts for like marketers, like for, you know, Whoever, right? Like, like you just go down the list of like who our ICP is and then just like go and basically schedule Outposts doing the same thing. So it's crazy to me of like the quantifying. I'm like, absolutely, this will work, right? Yeah. It's so funny. It works. I think it would work for you guys as well because it's marketers. And I'd be happy to— we could discuss that more because I think there's a lot we could do because our products are the exact opposite. It, but for the same suit when you think about it. Totally. Ours are the front and then you guys are the back. So there's a lot we could do there. But look at me negotiating deals on a podcast. Oh man, we'll talk for sure about it. I think— I'm serious though. Like I think, yeah, the, it really depends the case and I wouldn't expect an ROI in like exact dollars. I would expect it in like, You know, vibes. I'm just looking at it as free reach, right? Like, I think that's the thing that, like, you know, my measurement of success anymore is branded search. Like, that's all I care about now. Like, what do you think that— what do you mean exactly? So, like, basically, like, people specifically searching for the brand, and that's how they're coming to the site, right? So, like, you can see this data in Google Search Console. Like, it's actually, like, a measurable— like, for example, like, um, nobody can ever take away branded search from me. They can bid on it with Google Ads, right? But like, there's ways to combat that just for the audience. I'll be quick with this, but you can do an exact match keyword on your brand name and put the CPC bid at $10. And what that will do is basically price out everybody so that they like won't bid on your brand and you basically can like own that whole section. But what I'm getting at with this is like, I, I'm more focused on like all discovery of new products now happens through social. And so like what I'm just trying to do is get branded search month over month to increase because I know that like in the long term, if somebody's searching out my brand, There's a way higher likelihood that they're going to convert. They're like way deeper in the funnel and like, that's going to be way easier. It's demand generation rather than demand capture. Right. And so like demand capture is like, oh, I'm going after like analytics software. There's no fucking way I'm going to compete with Domo or like any of these other incumbents that are already in this category. But if I can go and basically like make it so that people are searching out this tool, I'm going to be way more likely. Like, for example, if I go and I bid on, um, like marketing analytics software, right? CPC on average on that is like $17, 0% chance we're going to make that work like ROI-wise. In contrast though, if I'm like going across social and like, this is going to be, this is our whole play. Like, you know, it's once product is in a good spot, which is like what we're, you know, aggressively working on currently. Yeah. Um, products, uh, dude, it's, it's, uh, I think the thing with us is like, we're like 3 things and also just like, stuff that has never been done before, which is hard 'cause you just like have no like playbook. Like we, yeah, we were talking about this before the call, but like teaching an agent to understand data is like actually very fucking hard. And like, what does this mean in context so that like a normie could come in and they can say something like, how many like phones went to my website last week? Right. And it can answer that like with that like very like amorphous, but you know, we're, we're a, when you look at the stack of this, it's like we're pipe, we're data pipeline, data warehouse, and then also the visualization.. And so that's just been like, it's like a, you know, the scope is, is there. But anyway, to get back to it, like to the branded search over time is all I care about. You can track this really easy. It's just like go to Google Search Console and be like queries containing like your brand name, like look at the impression and the click data over time. And then just graph that over like month over month, basically. Right. Like make a chart for that over month over month. And so anyways, that's, that's how I'm thinking about. So I look at like the Twitter thing or like I'm, we're experimenting with this with TikToks right now.. So I've got this plug for TikTok accounts that are like, basically they use an eSIM, VPN tunnel into it, and then it mimics a mobile device, right? And we can do like, you know, TikTok a day basically. And then all we do is we take, we have, I'm using Sora too right now to make like 10-second videos of like hot girl with like a text overlay, right? That's like basically like, it's just a meme, right? It's just a meme template basically. Is it working? Dude, it's totally working. 100%. Like it's good. We're going to scale this up and it's going to totally work. Um, also if you need these TikTok accounts, reach out to me. It's a friend's company. I'll just plug you up like in. It's like a, you know, it's literally like I just know them through WhatsApp. They don't have a website. It's like, I'll just— that's when you know it works, right? That's where the alpha is. Um, no, 100%, man. It's, it's funny. It's like we're all doing similar things in a different way, whether it's, it's mass meme accounts, mass clipping, which we're experimenting with as well, mass, you know, AI video or whatever. Like, we're all like any smart marketer. I haven't seen clipping work just to tell you this, like any using any of the services, they all like bought views. And so like, I would just go and buy, like I would again, buy these accounts and then just like bulk create ads. Yeah. With Sora now you can do stuff at scale where it's just like, it's crazy how like good it is. And like, we just like basically like have a base prompt for like, we make variations of it. Right. And then, I mean, you, we're paying Right now we're paying about 10 cents, 10 cents per 10-second video. So like if we want to go and do 1,000 videos, right across, I mean, say we do 300 videos across 10 accounts. I'll just do the math right now to actually get that. So that's a grand and then 300 times 0.1. So $30. We're paying like basically it's $1,000, $30, $1,000, $1,030, right? Um, and then from that, like, I'm looking at the ROI of like, okay, cool. Like if I can go and get like, you know, even a $3 CPM on that or a $2 CPM, that's totally worth it. Right. Because I can't get that on doing paid ads on TikTok or paid ads on Instagram. Like, so that's like the, the, the math that I'm thinking about here with all this. But anyways, I don't know if you guys have like an approach for how you think about it. Is it, is it just like leads generated from it or what, what, what do you guys think about that? It sounds weird. I'm not like a CPM guy. I'm just pure sales. Like I wish I was better at that. Like, I don't know. And I think I will be in about 6 months, but our product isn't there yet that like, I don't know the number of views that convert to sales. Just being completely blunt here is I don't know that number. And I think I will know that number eventually. But right now, like, I do know our click-through rate. I know that stuff, but we have so many accounts getting so many views that like, right now we're just, let's fucking roll, baby. You know? And once the product is like, once we have mobile, once we have like a little deeper, I think it's, then we're gonna go. But right now, like, I'm honestly, you know, haven't really pushed that too hard, but I definitely will be and I'll be coming to you to talk more about it. No, no, no. Yeah. It's more just like, I think that it's really interesting to think about, like, again, the branded search. Also with Memelord, like, it's such a good domain. Like, that .com. We're first on there, you know? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. So, but the, uh, again, yeah, I, I, I, like how I'm thinking about it is like, cool. Like if I go get a million impressions, I'm going to see brand lift that happens from that. And like, I'm going to be able, like, it's combining both of these, like very bottom of funnel with very top of funnel. So it's like, cool. Yeah. I can run ads where it's like just for a purchase conversion event from like Google or Facebook ads. Like what we're seeing work right now is Google Performance Max ads. This actually might work for you guys really well. That because you're in a competitive space. So basically you take the target keywords that you would, that you're seeing create the conversion event that you, that's working for you. So for example, like if it's a purchase or a demo, you take that search term that's converting and then you go and you make a Performance Max ad that is bidding on people that have searched that search term previously. And then you can basically follow them around all of the Google-owned properties and show display ads to them. Them like everywhere that they go. And so what we'll see is like we can take a CPA from like— Yeah, I'm just gonna post a meme of me with a sword and just pray, bro. I love it. That's my plan, man, is go on a podcast with a sword, hope that somebody signs up and call it a day. You know? No, I love it, brother. I gotta get dirtier at that. Like, dude, I got— it's very weird. And you know me, we've been marketing Twitter Buddies for 2, 3 years. I'm like like scrappy, scrappy, scrappy, scrappy. And like that was, you know, how I had to be. I was broke 5 years ago. Yeah. You know, broke as fuck, you know, check it. And I had to be scrappy and that's amazing. You know, I was able to build that, but now I'm in a very weird, weird problem where I have $3 million in the bank account and I don't know how to spend it. Totally. Which is a very, you know, obviously— I'm about to get so much inbound from Sizz from you just saying that. Yeah, obviously a very 0.001% problem,, but it is a weird problem nonetheless. Like, no longer is the problem, rent, or employees, but the problem is how do we grow as fast as possible without blowing our money doing stupid shit and pissing people off? And, every day I have to, you know, stab myself with the sword essentially of don't go buy a stupid billboard, don't go do this just because you have the money and, and maintain that scrappiness, and, and play it smart because I'm seeing a lot of people just as soon as they raise, go, go blow it. But, oh, there we go. I think there's a way to do this. Like if you look at like meme generator AI, right? Yeah, we definitely have one. Let's just look at the trends. Yeah, yeah. Like look at this, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The CPC on this too is like nothing. It's like, oh, that's fascinating. That's fascinating. So I think you could go after that 100%, make that work. The dude, ads is so easy. This is what kills me with it. Like people with ads, they're like, especially like you are scrappy, right? Like you're like an organ— you're an organic media guy that's gonna like, evolve into like paid. With paid, it's so simple 'cause it's like, cool, I put a dollar in and $5 of customer lifetime value comes out. But how do you, how do you make sure that it comes out? So that's, that's like, again, you can build this, right? So like what you need to, this, the simplest way to set this up is you use Google Tag Manager and you go and you set up a conversion event for the signup and I set up a conversion event for the payment. So basically it's like events that are pushed to the data layer that you observe with Google Tag Manager. That data you can send back to the ad channel, to Facebook Ads and Google Ads. I know these things, but I'm just scared of spending so much money. That's all. You have to, you have to think about it as like, cool. I like have an ATM. I know you like, I have an ATM. I put a dollar in and 5 comes out. Right. That is the mindset to come to this as. And like, especially if you have capital that you need to deploy, that's the whole point of raising is like, yo, you're basically, you're, you're getting that money up front because you know, the customer lifetime value will come out of it. Like, what's your CLV? We could do the math right now. What's your customer lifetime value? Value? Uh, it's higher than you think. It's somewhere between— I mean, the lifetime of the business is small, so the lifetime is somewhere between $80 and $150. Um, yeah, yeah. So I don't think it'd be that hard. And that doesn't include we upsell our clients on services. Um, totally. So the problem is actually just sitting down and orchestrating the ads. And also, I think a lot of people, uh, start running ads before their product's good. And like, why am I running ads on a product that's about to churn like a motherfucker? So I'm going to get dirty at ads. And I definitely know that, but like, it's like, I need the product to be good. We literally have it live in like 30 minutes. Just like text me and we'll like set it up and we'll have it live in like 30 fucking minutes. We need your engineer and like we can have it live in 30 minutes. All right. All right. We can do that. Um, hold you to it. Anyway, Jason, this has been amazing. Just to be conscious of time where I know people will want to reach out to you and talk to you about what you're doing. It's like making massive impact for the brands you work with. I've already got a wife and dog screaming at me and employees. Don't, don't reach out to me. Don't follow me, please. I've got enough. Don't go to his Twitter. Don't go to his LinkedIn. Don't go to memelord.com. Don't subscribe to memelord.com. Don't do it. We have enough customers yelling at us all the time. Please don't do it. That's gonna be my new bit. Amazing, man. I love it. I love it. Well, we'll have you back. We'll have you back in like 6 months to talk about like the State of the Union of memes. 'Cause I feel like this space evolves crazy quick. So we'll absolutely have to have you back. All right, cool, man. Cool. Awesome. Cheers.