#057 - I'm In - Creating World Class Onboarding within Hospitality

Speaker A: This podcast is sponsored by Leonardo Hotels UK and Ireland.

Speaker B: I means

Speaker A: image.

Speaker C: I'm in ioh.

Speaker A: Welcome to I'm in the Institute of Hospitality's official podcast hosted by me, Phil street fih. Today we're looking at how to create a world class onboarding within hospitality. And joining me for this we had Raj Chakraborty fih, Sally Locke, Mih M. And Bradley Dorrington. Aih, a massive thanks to all three of them for giving up their time and opinion.

Speaker C: Forget.

Speaker A: If you want to feature on a future episode, reach out to me directly@phil streetofhospitality.org but for now, don't forget to hit that subscribe button and come right on in.

Speaker C: Ioh.

Speaker A: Hello and welcome to I'm in the Institute of Hospitality's official podcast hosted by me, Phil street fih. Now today we're going to talk about something which I'm probably going to find very difficult to shut up about, to be honest, which is that of the world of onboarding and how to create a world class onboarding within hospitality. Thankfully you're not going to have to listen to me ranting about that, uh, for 40 minutes. We've got some other people to help me rant. So I'm just going to get stuck straight into this and go straight to the Fellowship. And welcome to the show Raj Chakraborty.

Speaker C: Hi, um, my name is Raj. I'm the regional General manager of McDonald Hotels. Looking, uh, after five hotels. Ioh. Uh, it actually played a big role in where I am today. I work very closely with them. Uh, what I like about it, it's what they do for the people in their whole journey in hospitality and it changes a lot of people lives and then hence, yeah, I'm very supportive of it. I'm very involved and then, um, here I am today.

Speaker A: You've just completely stolen a march. I would have gotten to that question, Raj. I, uh, wanted to find out how you are and how's life and business.

Speaker C: Life is um, it's hard. Business depends on where the hotels are. Farther they are from London, better it is nearer to London. It's tough market, you know, because Middle, um, East market has vanished completely. Completely.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: And that is, that is hitting us hard. We need to find new business and um, that's what we are at at this moment. Everything is lost in it. Yeah, yeah. We have to depend on the local market massively now and um. Tough, Tough.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean there's no getting away from it. Right. I mean I've been Known as being naively positive. But even my naivety tells me that um, that uh, you know, definitely things could be better out there for sure. Yeah. Well, hopefully this will make you happier, Raj.

Speaker C: The weather is. Listen, the weather is beautiful and things will get better.

Speaker A: Yes, indeed. Indeed. Absolutely. Well, you're very, very welcome in any case and uh, look forward to hearing your thoughts on the topic. Uh, to the membership and we have Sally Locke.

Speaker D: Hi there. So, yeah, I'm Sally, Sally Locke. I am the group talent manager at uh, Splendid Hospitality Group. I have been with Splendid just over a year and support the business with all things talent acquisition and talent management. So quite a blended role across I guess, all things talent related and I'm sure, like all of us, very busy dealing with lots of, you know, projects as well as BAU and um, everything that comes at us in such a fast moving world. Obviously happy to be on the call today and really interested to hear everybody's thoughts and comments about such a. I guess, interesting topic to me given that it's something I'm sort of involved in all of the time and to follow suit in terms of my sort of connection with the Institute of Hospitality and how I've come to be. Um, I hadn't actually been a member prior to joining Splendid, but Splendid, ah, are a big sponsor and advocate of the ioh. Um, so the opportunity to join was offered to me. Um, for me it made perfect sense. Lots of opportunity for networking. Um, this type of event obviously, um, is a first for me but you know, great opportunity and also to sort of leverage all of the insights, knowledge, experience and expertise that we get through being associated with the irh.

Speaker A: Good stuff. Yes, well you're very, very welcome and just give us a kind of quick over. Uh, what do Splendid have within their remit these days?

Speaker D: So Splendid, we have three key divisions. So we've got our hotels division, so hotels across the UK pretty much from sort of London and the southe Edinburgh. Uh, we have our QSR division which is now 38 KFCs currently across the Midlands and the Northeast. And we've recently acquired three chaiwala, if you know it, very fast growing, um, sort of street food brand and we have three care homes currently. Um, so yeah, lots of plans for further growth and development but um, you know, exciting and busy across all areas.

Speaker A: Yeah, very much so. That's. And that's. I'm really excited to have you on for many reasons of course, but the fact that you are kind of your head is in this space really and how the onboarding in actual fact, is a major part of any kind of attraction strategy. At least that's.

Speaker D: Here we go.

Speaker A: I've started already.

Speaker E: There we are.

Speaker A: I'm going to shut it up now. Um, but, uh, no, you're very, very welcome and I'm very, very grateful for you to make time for this today. And last but not least, we have, uh, returning the returning Bradley Dorrington. How are you doing?

Speaker E: Very good, thank you, Phil. Very good. Thanks for having me here today. Yes, my name is Bradley Dorrington. I own a very small wine bar in Bury St. Edmunds in Suffolk, and I'm also chair Youth council within the IOH as well, and.

Speaker A: Well, talk to me about that. How's that progressing?

Speaker E: Yeah, it's really great. We've got a really great team. We recently had our first event of the year at Jansee in London, which was a very kind of casual networking evening with a bit of cocktail masterclass thrown in as well from one of, uh, our youth council members, Rizwan. It was a sellout. It was a really great mix of levelled people in the room, by level people, obviously students all the way up to kind of a couple of fihs in the room, or people at the latter stages of their career, you could say. Um, so it was really great to see cross hospitality generations mingling and networking together. It was a lovely evening. Ah, and now we're just getting into the crux of our, ah, bigger, uh, networking, uh, kind of event that we look to run towards the end of the year. And then we've got London Hospitality Festival coming out. Passion for hospitality later on in the year as well. So lots going on, lots of exciting things. You can see what we're up to on Instagram and obviously through the IOH as well.

Speaker A: Fantastic. Yeah. Well, and thank you again for making time, especially because. Bless you. Well, you and Raj, not that you're, you're not welcome as well, Sally, but, uh, yes, having your own individual operational crises today. So I, um, uh, really appreciate you still making time for the show. So I'm definitely. I'm not going to hang around today. Let's just get to this. And, uh, I'm going to just get straight into, uh, the opening statement today, which is very simply, uh, customers will never love a company until the employees love it first. And that is from, well, the quite inspirational Simon Sinek. Sinek, however you pronounce it. Uh, I still don't know. I think I'd get that right by now. But in any case, he's got a really Great habit of being able to take, uh, a sort of a complex idea and simplifying it into one line. And I think that's another great example. But I guess a very open question to all three of you and anyone, feel free to just jump in on this to kick things off. Ah, but when you hear the phrase world class onboarding, what does that actually mean to you?

Speaker E: I have a really short, sweet answer to this because I've been thinking about it and to me world class onboarding is when someone finishes their first month and they're thinking, I made the right decision joining this business. That's as simple as it is for me.

Speaker A: Very good, very good. Well, we'll get into maybe the mechanics of how that set of circumstances can arise. But, um, nicely, uh, you're in the same league as Simon Sinek then.

Speaker E: I wouldn't put myself that far, but

Speaker A: okay, very good, Sally. Uh, Raj, anything to add into that?

Speaker D: No, I would agree wholeheartedly. Really. It's really that kind of initial interaction and engagement that they have and that feel that they should have maybe even within the first few weeks of that connection, feeling that they belong. Yes. They're going to have lots to learn, but they're, you know, not doubting that they made the right decision.

Speaker C: Yeah, exactly what Sally says. And um, Rodney as well. It's a sense of belonging.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker C: You know, the first impression. Hospitality is the most, the biggest impression you can ever give to a guest and to your staff. And that's where it all starts. You know, they need to believe that they can succeed.

Speaker E: Yeah.

Speaker C: And that's very important, very important.

Speaker E: I think it's always remembering that we're irrelevant of what side of hospitality we're in. Whether, you know, Sally's hit nail on head with hotels, care homes, faster operations. People are at the core of our business. Uh, in a time where AI uh is taking over industry after industry after industry, it can help our industry, but it can't take a plate to a table. It can't check someone in at reception with a smile and a handshake or a welcome. So the people are the core of what we do are so important.

Speaker D: Yeah, I agree. I think that human at the center of everything needs to absolutely be remembered and remain. You know, we are a very people centric business and that human touch, even if something hasn't gone so smoothly, but actually by being human and talking and being open in communication around those things, just makes such a difference and that, you know, technology can only do so much. Technology can be a great enabler and can save some time and efficiencies in some of the, I don't know, processes as such. But the actual human part is the bit that's going to help people be connected and feel that they are, you know, fitting into a business where they can see themselves growing.

Speaker C: Totally.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, there's a. Something just flashed through my head as you guys were talking there around the fact that actually if you think about it from a human psychological perspective, when somebody starts somewhere new, it's actually a. It's a period of quite high resistance because you're learning a new place, you're learning new people, you're learning new politics, you're learning new systems, you're learning a lot new language as well in terms of the way that people kind of communicate and the like. So the, the least, the simple thing that we can do is remove any of the other resistance. Right. Because there's probably enough resistance in that learning experience. And a lot of that comes down to the human experience, the human to element of it. And you know, I think it's something that we all know, I think it is something that especially in this industry we are very passionate about and should be getting right. But still on occasion it doesn't happen for one reason or another. So I guess to kind of hone in on that point. What do organizations who are not getting this right still get fundamentally wrong when they're looking at their onboarding?

Speaker D: I mean, I think it's when it gets seen as a. Let's call it an admin process rather than an actual human interaction. Because yes, there is an admin or an HR admin process that runs alongside it where there's paperwork necessary and documentation that needs to be seen and, you know, processed. However, there's always and should always remain that kind of human interaction, that sense of welcoming. And yes, there's some admin kind of heavy pieces that need to go alongside that. But actually we're still going to talk to you, engage with you, be human, be, you know, interpersonal interaction as well as just emails being fired backwards and forwards. And I think particularly where now AI and other tools are supporting onboarding, it's not moving to a model that relies so heavily on that that nobody thinks to pick the phone up to the candidate until they're about to start or even. They don't maybe necessarily even do that. And it's all becomes reliant on interventions and tech rather than the human side.

Speaker E: Completely agree with that. I mean, my experience with onboarding is kind of two sides. I Suppose my business is very small, I only employ two people, so we're properly close knit. I'm working with them the whole time. But pre, pre this I did a hotel management course and I remember my first day. Uh, uh, a hotel which will remain nameless. It was 180 bedrooms, 20 banqueting suites, four restaurants, a spa. My first day I was literally walked around the whole hotel and they're like, so this is this, this is this, this is this, this is this, this, this, this, this is this. Cool. There's reception going crack on. I was like, I've got no idea of anything you just told me. It was so kind of like bang, bang, bang. Here's policy, here's procedure, here's systems, here's where everything is. And it's just complete overload. And I think. And then I remembered that a lot more than I remember how they not made me feel because I still felt welcomed, but I just felt completely overwhelmed. And I remembered that a long time past remembering any kind of SOP that I was given or policy. That first initial feeling sticks with someone a long time.

Speaker D: And I think that's a really interesting point because as operators we know that you guys are all super busy and any manager in an operation is. And it's. But it's easy to forget almost particularly if you've been in the workplace for some time, what it might feel to somebody starting a new job for the first time. They may not have had many experiences of onboarding into a new company. So that feeling of overwhelm could be their first job. They could have come from a job where they've worked for years and this is now, you know, their first time back experiencing a new environment and culture. And we can forget that sometimes just in busyness. So not through intent but just, you know, there's disasters and things happening and priorities around make, if it's a hotel or a restaurant around the property, but still making sure that the time is given to talk things through in a way that people can understand. And it doesn't just feel like we're just ticking boxes to say we've done all these day one tasks or week one tasks without actually some, you know, human touch and conversation around it.

Speaker C: I think, I think we sometimes assume that people start their paperwork is done, so we assume the onboarding is complete, you know. And also um, what I've seen is that some hotels that I go to, they think onboarding is done after the week one. It's a continuous process like you said, um, um, Sally, that you know, when they come in, you know, for them it's scary. You know, especially on big hotels it is not that easy. And nowadays, you know, it's getting younger and younger. We have got so many 16 year old that with us here. So we had to tell her our onboarding process and everything according to them. But sometimes we forget that we started in that way, you know, and we get sucked into the process.

Speaker A: Mhm, we do, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's. Your point about assumptions is bang on for me because. And this is where a lack of communication is a massive risk to any, well to any business at any stage. Right. You know, we just have a habit of as human beings of filling in the blanks with our own version of something before we know we make that assumption basically that um, something is the case, but in actual facts a simple little, you know, how was your first day, how was your first week? You know, and spending and actually listening and being immersed in that rather than just ticking the box to say right, we've done it, we've asked him, that's fine, he said they're fine, let's move on. Goes a long way. And I'm reminded of I had a conversation recently with somebody out of industry who, uh, a management consulting company, this was a very well known one international size of organization who were talking, uh, this is kind of come to come back to your point around admin, Sally, around um, the fact that that onboarding process was being managed by AI like the, the day one check in was being done by an AI entity to you, uh, know, and I thought I put myself into the shoes of the person who's on the receiving end of that. And I was like, I mean I can kind of see the point from an efficiency perspective, but is that giving me an experience that makes me feel like I'm you know, a part of the team or that I belong here? I mean I suppose these are all questions that we probably have to answer down the road at some point, but for me it was like that's just becoming an admin experience that's not becoming an actual human to human experience.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker A: That was a rant. It wasn't really a question. Very good at that. Okay, so at what point then does the onboarding process actually begin? If you're again focusing on the world of world class, where should it ideally begin?

Speaker C: I think the moment the candidate says

Speaker E: yes, exactly what I was going to say.

Speaker C: And also another thing is that I just want to add a few things. For example, we at say one of my hotels At Bath Spa we work um, with a lot of schools, a lot of schools. And we invite them from 15 onwards to come and spend the day, spend a week with us. For us, our onboarding starts then.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker C: We get them, right. I have got them. When they're 16, they will come to me. We have about 35 hotels in five mile radius, you know, and then for us it starts then. So it's a massive question, when does it start? So for us it starts then, before even they actually come to do the job.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: And from my perspective, I would even say a step further or earlier. I'd say onboarding starts the minute the candidate engages with the brand, whether that's through their interview process. They'll be making, you know, judgments and assessments based on how we communicate, how we, how quickly we, you know, engage and come back to them and keep them engaged through the process. So I'd say from the moment a candidate applies and is coming into an interview process or showing intent or an interest in joining that, that's actually where the onboarding starts.

Speaker E: Especially now when there's a, there's also a big part of kind of a, uh, generational change I suppose where previous you would kind of sell yourself to a business and now I think a lot of it is almost the reverse. I think a business has to sell itself to you to make sure you're a business that cares about people and looks after team and establishes themselves in the community. They're all things that matter on a massive scale.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker A: Yeah. And equally to add to that, like the gap between what you market versus what the actual experience is exactly the same principle as a guest coming in to experience what you have, if you've marketed the best thing in the world, which is effectively the interview process, etc. Etc. In the candidate experience. But then the real experience of that is so far removed from that, you have to get that aligned like from the outset. And I'd also add, ah, I got taught this, crikey, probably about 10 years ago I saw something else which kind of opened my eyes to this, around the fact that actually the onboarding process doesn't stop even if the candidate doesn't get the job. Um, which I thought was a really interesting perspective because doesn't mean they get the job, they don't get the job now, but there could be something for them in the future. And I've seen some really brilliant innovation from organizations around keeping in contact with people and still making them feel like they belong there even though they are not there. Which is really a really wonderful way to build trust over the long term rather than an immediate transactional requirement. If we're from the cold hearted perspective of, uh, we have a job that needs to be filled, there is a person that can fill it. Transaction complete. Thinking long term, uh, with these things is actually a really wonderful way to build an uh, employer brand I would have thought.

Speaker E: And again, especially in an industry that's so geographically spread out but so closely knit through things like the ioh, you know, we send a message to each other or certainly locally in East Anglia, we all know everybody, everyone knows everyone and you know, someone applies for a job or you know someone's looking to apply for a job and they kind of chat to their old employer. Oh, what's this business like or what's that business like? You know, word travels fast and kind of that's both sides of the coin that matters for sure.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean we're kind of, I suppose we're speaking a little bit about experience. I've just kind of spoken from an external perspective, uh, uh, an experience that I witnessed. Bradley, you've already spoken about, uh, a sort of negative experience of overwhelm back in the day. What are your other experiences, either good or bad from an onboarding perspective? What have you seen that is amazing that you think, wow. Yeah, I mean that's just. That should be our minimum standard.

Speaker C: I worked for Marriott for a while, about 12 years. Um, I still remember when I first started at Grosvenor Square, I think 2001 or two. And you know, first thing the director of HR who did the onboarding first day, it was all about the culture, you know, making me understand what the Marriott culture is. I think culture. Without a company that doesn't have a culture, it's always chaotic. You must have a culture.

Speaker A: Well, that's his culture. Chaos can be a culture.

Speaker C: Yes, yes, yes. But the way they drill in it into you and then the process continues, which I brought quite a bit of that to McDonald Hotels, but it is still, you know, instilled in me and I think their onboarding m process was fantastic.

Speaker A: Yeah. And you're right, these are the things that you take forward with you, right? The good or the bad experiences. You know, Bradley, your experience earlier that you spoke about, I would imagine then is whatever you go on to do in your future, you're going to ensure that somebody that's under your guard is not going to have that experience. They're not going to feel that.

Speaker E: And I think that's the way that we all grow within any industry, in any career, isn't it? You take your own personal experiences and either if they're positive, you morph them into your own leadership style, onboarding style, whatever it may be, management style and any negatives, you're like, well, maybe I'll make sure I won't do that in the future. So six, one half dozen the other. But all builds and character building I suppose is a good way of summarizing it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Sally, any experiences from your own personal journey?

Speaker D: I think from my own it's just where you've sort of felt like part of the team before actually joining the team. So you know that bit often gets neglected between offer acceptance and starting. Sometimes that can be a short window or long depending on notice periods, but sort of check ins in between. I've had instances where I've joined meetings or social events, you know, in, in between that, that period. Because you're still part of the team, albeit you might be a week out from joining and it I think just all serves to make you still feel that you're being included, considered you're not going to join and there's been a meeting a week before that you haven't understood kind of what went on. So you're actually beginning to break and break down that sort of lack of knowledge and building those relationships already actually even before you've joined. Um, and then just really that feeling on day one of people are ready for me. You know, you're set up, you've got a desk, you've got equipment, you have it, you've got logins. There's not this mad panic of, you know, where you get the sense that perhaps it's all been a bit of an afterthought and they'd forgotten you were joining and you haven't got logins and you then feel a bit like a hindrance and I guess that's perhaps different so much in an office environment than if you're in a property but just readiness and that people are prepared, welcoming and there's actually maybe somebody there to uh, partner with you or buddy with you that day or that week and you've just got a plan of what that's going to look like. And I think again going back to all of that sort of personal interaction piece, I think that's the bit that makes um, a really positive experience.

Speaker A: Yeah, none of this is rocket science in the end, right. I mean it's just about setting really positive basic intention, get basics in play. I'm reminded of a chat I Had with somebody uh, about their career journey once and they ended up, they were exactly what you were just talking about there, Sally. Uh, around. They were neglected through that from the offer to start date phase but then also on start date itself turned up for work and the first person that greeted them was uh, who are you? What, what are you here for? You know, I mean that's just, that's just like, just think about it just for a second. But then also he ended up walking out that very moment, walked over the road because they had a vacancies in the um, in the uh, the window and started there that very day with the, with that other, you know, a competitor organization. That's the risk I suppose if you don't take this stuff seriously. Is that somebody, as Bradley said earlier as well, this is a two way interview. This is not a uh, you know, you should come and work for us because our brand is amazing. This is, here's our brand and it's amazing. But we want you, you to feel like you, you belong here and you're part of it.

Speaker D: And it doesn't like you said it, it is very simple and it doesn't take a lot of effort. But small touches go such a long way. It can be just somebody being ready, somebody asking how was your first day? Or I don't know, do you know where to go for lunch? Let me show you kind of what's around or give you a bit of direction, whatever it might be. Those small interactions that make somebody feel again welcomed and you know, breaking down some of crap. That fear and nervousness and the unknown just make a huge difference. It doesn't have to be anything overly sophisticated. Welcome packs or, you know, they're great but actually some of those interactions throughout anybody's, you know, onboarding period uh, are going to make a huge difference.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker A: we kind of touched upon a little bit of the generational element, uh, mainly I suppose from the, the, the younger generations that are coming through into the workforce now, obviously going to play a massive part in the coming years. But there are other generations that we have to consider, uh, consider here, you know, all the way through to uh. Well, I mean I don't even know what generation is still in the workforce. In some cases we still have some baby boomers in the workforce. So how do you ensure that an onboarding works for everyone, not just one particular demographic within the generational reach.

Speaker C: Certain elements of it needs to be same, but some certain elements of onboarding needs to be tailored according to the needs, according to who you are onboarding. Usually all the hotels they onboard in, the start dates, they usually give onboarding clusters, say four, five, six together and um, sometime, you know, hard to say though. Phil, that's a good question. Very good question.

Speaker A: Thank you very much.

Speaker E: I think it's kind of what uh, Raj was saying, like good onboarding is. It's never one size fits all, is it? It's kind of structured with the same skeleton I suppose you could say, but then offshoots, making it personal kind of, you know, I suppose making sure people's previous experiences are uh, well catered for and that they matter and bringing in kind of younger people. They need kind of clearer uh, feedback and, and regular catch ups and encouragement. But yeah, it's not a one size fits all model and kind of as long as you've got the core messages the same. I think that's the important part. Uh, and then that personal side of it, which is what I suppose the running theme, I suppose of what we're saying. So important.

Speaker A: Yeah, indeed. Sally, Anything to throw into.

Speaker D: I was just going to say the same. So you know, that consistent baseline process but with some adaptability where it's required. Now that could be based on the, you know, the demographic of the candidate. It could be based on the role and the specifics or seniority. But again having your team preparing for that and it being a, ah, you know, a uh, considered and thought through process rather than, well, this is our company onboarding and this is what we're doing actually. Let's look at the audience and yes the baseline will be the same but we can tweak it where necessary.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I suppose like most things in hospitality, we have to guard again against those assumptions right around the fact that just because somebody fits in a demographic, they're probably going to want uh, an Onboarding that looks like xyz. The key is probably again, communication and engagement with the individual as early as possible around what good looks like to them as much as what you think good looks like. Because then you can probably meet halfway or all the way, uh, on one side and the like. And uh, yeah, I mean it just comes back to the simple act of communication again. Seems to be the biggest winner in all of this. I'm going to come to you, Raj, actually very specific question to you as somebody who kind of sits, I guess, an eagle eye level senior leadership within the portfolio of hotels that you operate. How important is it for you to be visible in that period when you get uh, a new joiner coming in? And I suppose the second question to that is how realistic is it for you to be that way when perhaps you've got multiple joiners all happening in multiple properties.

Speaker C: So the way I tend to do is, um, like I said, we have got set days of the month when we do the onboarding and we can only start on those. We usually start them on those days. I tend to present in there. I go and say hello, introduce myself, get up, I ask them their name, what they were before, um, I welcome them to our group, talk about a little bit about our culture, and then I leave the rest for my GMs to deal with. You know, it's never for me, I really believe it's never a good thing for me to run onboarding rather than my GMs. I'm there, they know me and I guess I try to sell them that my door is always open, reach out to me, whatever you need. But GMs are your point of contact. I never want to be in that, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And then all the onboarding are very tailored to each property. Of course we go through our hierarchy massively about our culture, McDonald ethos and then rest of it. Hotel based.

Speaker A: Right, yeah, yeah. And I suppose then, um, from a, like, the visibility is probably quite important, but what you're talking about is not dominating that process. It's just.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, visibility is very, very important. Yeah, important. But it cannot be a process. It cannot be just, you know, you are there just to show your face. I try to engage with them and you know. Yeah. Be open minded and not be narrow. Even a KP is, is very important to, to our business. So, you know, everybody's equal to me and I, I try to create that culture.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, as well, you know, I will, I will make sure after a week or two I'll go And see them ask, uh, them how their week went. So it's create. And you know, by doing that, Philip, we have seen our, um, our turnover in a short term had reduced immensely.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's usually the simple things, right. That make the biggest impact. You can. We're very, very good. Uh, this is not a hospitality trait. This is just a general human trait. I think they're very good at adding in complications sometimes where it's not necessary and sometimes it's, if something's not working, strip it back to the very minimum and then build again. But um, but yeah, Sally, from your perspective as somebody who's kind of at the sharp end of onboarding, if you like, how do you ensure, like if you're building an onboarding process for your organization, how do you ensure you get buy in across? Because I would assume that buy in is quite an important factor in this from all of the different departments and operations that you come into contact with.

Speaker D: It is. And I think it's largely again, being very sort of open in helping them also understand sort of, you know, the impact that good recruitment and good onboarding will have on their own teams and that, you know, the time invested in that process is going to pay off for them in the longer run by having, you know, engaged team members and people who join and stay and they're not going to then make a quick decision based on perhaps the experience they've had. That means that they almost self select and decide it's not for them. So there's a piece there about really helping any hiring manager or people manager understand the role they play in that process and how key it is and that they've all got a part to play. This isn't an HR job or a talent job or somebody else job. How we show up for that candidate throughout the process needs to be consistent. And um, going back again, human, um, you know, if they've had a really positive interview experience and everything's run smoothly, we want that to then flow through to the next part of the process. Otherwise there's a disconnect and they feel that they've maybe just not been shown the whole picture. So I think it's really understanding and helping to continually deliver that message. Um, help people see the value. We know that actually as busy operators, typically recruitment isn't the thing they want to spend most of their time doing. It's an absolute necessity because they need good team members. And you know that it's probably, you know, for a lot of people, a constant process. But if we can make that bit less painless by not having to re or re recruit where things haven't worked out, um, then so much the better. Um, and the other thing I think that I'm really conscious of is ensuring that when we do have a new hire and a new starter, we give them the time to onboard. So we've talked a lot about, you know, maybe anxiety overwhelm and there is again that tension between, you know, operating a busy hotel, restaurant, whatever that may be and getting people onboarded. And you sometimes hear that phrase of, you know, I want someone that can hit the ground running. But we have to understand that even if they're joining us with experience, they still need to learn our business and culture and how we do things. So actually be mindful of, let's let them on board rather than expect by the end of week one they are fully ingrained operational, know everything that they need to know and, and they're kind of good to go and we can sort of tick that box and move on to. They're now a, an, you know, an experienced employee rather than somebody new as a joiner. So there's kind of a lot there I've just conscious, I've just kind of rambled on. But it's um, so many different aspects and it's bringing everybody on that same journey and over time helping people through that going well see the benefits of actually giving the time to those candidates to truly kind of learn the ropes, have a great experience and say recognize perhaps if they need a bit of extra support. It doesn't mean they're a bad hire if they take a bit longer than the person you hired last month to get up to speed. Um, but they may just need to learn things at a slightly different pace.

Speaker A: Yeah, I had a conversation recently with a guy who does culture, uh consulting across multiple sectors and he gave me a really fantastic example to kind of cement your point really around that, that initial. It doesn't really matter how talented you are in an organization where you were before. When you start in a new organization you're basically starting you know, from a pretty low uh, point in terms of yes, you still, you've got skills and understanding and all of that. But he gave the example of uh, of a trader in a financial services company who was the top billing trader or however they classify it within financial, within a certain organization was obviously are a uh, highly sought after talent and did make a move because they threw everything at him. And they said that the analysis showed that it actually took him nine months to get back up to the level that he was at before because there was just so much to take in, so much to learn. And I still think this is something that we need to be better at as a collective is understanding the mental load on a human being when they have made so many fundamental changes in their life. And that's one of the biggest changes you can make in your life as a, a career change. Even if it is role to role a similar thing in which you're doing.

Speaker D: Mhm. Absolutely. And we do have to be realistic in our expectations. You know, we can't expect day one or week one, you know, employee to be, you know, exactly where we want them to be by the time they're going to be with us for six months. But it's understanding that and having, you know, a plan and recognition, caring to know we can help you get there on your journey. But you know, like you say, you could have been a super top performer in your last business, but we can't assume you're going to be that from day one for us. So we need to support you to help you get there. And that then becomes a bigger piece with yes, you know, the management team, but also leaning on L and D and other sort of interventions where necessary to make sure that we're helping and supporting people throughout that process.

Speaker A: Yeah, totally. And I think to be clear as well, with my own example, well not my own example but my, my colleague's example, uh, that doesn't mean that I give a free pass to people for nine months to get up to speed. You know, you still have to see, see the development in somebody and the time that they are taking on board that there is progress and these things can be measured and you know, looked uh, at across uh, the process. But I think it's just to be mindful of the fact that that is, you know, that especially in the early stages is such a massive part of how somebody will engage with a business that they're, they're being given a little bit of rope, uh, in which to learn from.

Speaker D: And I think add to that, you know, there should be lots of check ins, informal and formal. So coffee chats, how's it going? And giving feedback. So if they're not quite grasping something, well let's address it early on so that we can get them to that place before you know, it becomes an issue later on. And we're thinking we don't want to pass their probation. You know, we want to be open and have the chats and the support necessary to help people as they go

Speaker A: yeah, absolutely conscious of the fact that we've kind of uh, we've honed in a little bit on what might be classified as bigger organizations. But how does this really in the end differ for a small business? But when you're uh, I suppose a little under resourced in relation to a bigger organization that may have departments upon departments to support this. When you're a, uh, small business, how, how do you ensure that you get that right and that you're being competitive, I suppose with that ones that may be more m resourced.

Speaker E: I think wild card take here. I think it's easy.

Speaker A: Love it already because, but uh, I

Speaker E: think, I think it's genuinely easier because. So we're a very small business. As I said earlier, I employ two people. That's it. So everything I deal with, everything. You know, I am HR for one of the word. I am onboarding.

Speaker C: I am.

Speaker E: There's a problem. You can speak to me. Admittedly, yes, you can speak to one of our, one of my business partners or my wife coincidentally. But uh, you know, we're a very family oriented business. You don't need a massive budget to create great onboarding. It's just preparation and putting time and care into people. So kind of, you know, just, just employed two new people back in April, you know, they accepted the job and kind of, you know, you're chatting away to them. You kind of come on down whenever works for you. One week, we'll have a look through, we'll get the paperwork, we'll get all the boring stuff done. Say boring, obviously it's needed, but we'll get all the admin stuff out the way. So then when you come in and start work, we don't need to worry about any of that. And you can come in and we can talk about some wine and we can look through the menu, the list and have a chat about it and talk about how we run service. And um, you know, you're kind of. The rotors are already. Everything's done. We celebrate the small victories with each other. Um, in an industry that moves very fast, kind of people still remember those beginning days and they remember how they feel when they first start with people. And if you don't kind of touching back on what Raj said a little bit. If you don't put the time and the effort into onboarding properly and kind of again, like Sally said, you don't need the big frills and the big wins and the big welcome bags and welcome packs, et cetera. But if you don't put the Time and the effort into it, then you're going to pay for it later when people ultimately leave and then turnover will be higher, business will be more inconsistent. So yeah, I suppose as it, it may seem more challenging not having lots of people around me to help me do it, but actually it makes it a bit easier in my perspective because I can be hands on with everyone.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And.

Speaker A: And frankly I hadn't even really thought about that, to be honest, as the um. So I like your wild cards, uh, approach. Approach to it. Yeah. I mean it, it's such a fascinating thing. I come back to, uh, a saying that I heard a long time ago. I think pretty much everybody in hospitality has heard this saying around. People will always remember how you made them feel rather than what you said or did. Something like that anyway. But the point is, is that actually how you feel when you're in the middle of something plays a massive part into your experience of that. And uh, an onboarding is no different. Right? I mean it really isn't. And why should we look at that any different than the way that we look at the experience of our guests, really? These people are spending more time in our business than guests are in, in the end. So. But anyway, was that rant four from Phil there? But any. I'm um, very conscious of your time and I'm very, very grateful for, for everything, uh, so far. I'm going to kind of finish off a little bit with a little bit of a rapid fire round. Just sort of quick answers if you're, if you're ready to rock and roll. But uh, what would be the biggest onboarding red flag for you turning up

Speaker E: and not knowing that there was someone starting. So not having the information, not having the. Yeah, that would be my biggest red flag. And it's happened to me before as well. Turned up and everyone's like, sorry, who are you? I'm like, uh, okay, yeah.

Speaker C: Feeling like you don't exist. Pretty much going there and you're just lost within, you know, within the system.

Speaker D: Yeah. I added similar feeling. Like a hindrance.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And uh, and one word. Every new starter should feel after their first week valued.

Speaker C: They belong.

Speaker D: Happy.

Speaker E: Very good.

Speaker A: And what matters more on onboarding systems or people or both?

Speaker D: I'd say people. Sorry, both. But people matter more.

Speaker C: Agreed.

Speaker E: Yeah, I put both and said that, uh, people make systems work believable. But we aren't an industry about people.

Speaker D: Yeah. And if the systems fail, you know, a phone call from a person can just kind of overcome all of that the candidate doesn't care, but they understand. So I think systems are yes, important, but the people piece can just make it all right anyway.

Speaker A: Such a great point. Such a great point. Yeah. And then final to wrap it all off the, the one thing that you would love to see as the onboarding standard going forward that everybody listening to this could take forward and go, yeah, I could implement that tomorrow.

Speaker E: I think just making people feel that warmth, hospitality as a word is making people feel welcome, warmth and looked after. So having that stem through to people that are joining your various business or organization, I think that uh, be hospitable. It should be fairly obvious, I suppose

Speaker C: like you said the previous question, Phil, make them feel that we are putting people first and we should be putting them first. Not only who is onboarding with the people that we work with every day. You know, people need to be first. If the system fails, people are there to pick it up, make the system work again. But if you don't have the people, you don't have nothing.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think it's again that people first piece, how they experience the business will be then what shapes their view of the business. So it sort of all comes full circle.

Speaker A: Yeah, indeed. Who'd have thought in a people centric business that the people might be the most important part of something incredible? But uh, no, yeah, indeed. There we are. Thank you so much guys for, for your time on this. I, I massively appreciate you're all very, very busy people and uh, really appreciate you making time for the show and wish you all the very best with the rest of the year ahead and beyond.

Speaker C: Thank you very much.

Speaker D: Thank you.

Speaker E: Thank you very much.

Speaker A: Cheers.

Speaker E: Lovely meeting you. Thanks.

Speaker C: So, I mean.

Speaker A: Today's episode of I'm in looked at how to create a world class onboarding and hospitality and Featured Raj Chakraborty FIH, Sally Locke MIH, Bradley Dorrington AIH and hosted by me, Phil Street, FIH. Big thanks again. Go to the IOH's very own Sonja Cresswell MIH for the artwork and branding and Leon Williams FIH for the music to say I'm in feature on a future episode, contact phil street@instituteofhospitality.org and uh, to find out more about the IOH or to join join our hospitality family, please click the link in the show notes. Thanks so much for listening and join us next time where we'll be looking into the evolution of the Head of Technology role.