The AI Skeptic's Guide to Hiring Better, Faster

Speaker A: Especially with something as human as interviewing. It's like you can't use AI to replace those human interactions. And so you should never have an AI chatbot do something that a human should do. It's like that in itself is the best, maybe North Star that people can use.

Speaker B: Hello and welcome to this episode of HR How AI is shaping the hiring Game. Our interview with Nancy Boyce. AI is reshaping the landscape for nearly every industry, business process and employee candidate experience. And as it becomes more deeply embedded in the hiring process, HR leaders are faced with big questions. What does AI assisted interviewing actually look like? How should companies disclose how AI is used in hiring? And how should candidates use AI in their job search? Join us in this episode of HR Unplugged as we interview Nancy Boyce, BambooHR's senior employer brand manager. We'll tackle the tough questions and walk through BambooHR's new process for AI and interviews. Hey everyone. Welcome to today's episode of HR Unplugged. M We have a great episode planned for you today, but first let's introduce our guest, Nancy Boyce. Nancy is one of her own. She's bamboohr's senior employer brand manager and she's got the resume to back it up. Nancy has a passion for blending creativity, psychology and marketing to elevate the talent experience. With deep expertise in talent recruitment, Nancy has worked in the space for nearly 15 years. Known for her ability to build trust quickly and foster cross functional collaboration, Nancy thrives in innovative environments where imagination and execution go hand in hand. Whether she's crafting brand narratives, launching engagement campaigns, or consulting on talent strategies, she brings energy and empathy and just the right dose of humor, which is the perfect combination. Nancy, I'm so excited to chat with you today. So fun to have another bamboo again here on the show. Anything I miss here? What else can you tell our audience? They feel like they're in this room with us today.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me, Vanessa. I'm so excited to be here. I love being a bamboo again and it's just going to be so much fun to talk about all things AI and interviewing. And I just want to say a shout out to history majors who don't know what you're doing after graduation. I promise you there is space for you in this world. So very happy to be here and excited to speak with you.

Speaker B: Way to shout out and make the history majors feel seen.

Speaker A: Of course, it's like, yeah, I didn't turn into an archeologist, but one could say perhaps I am a Cultural anthropologist and working, uh, in, you know, employer branding. So that's what we're just going to say and very happy to be here and excited to be at Bamboo.

Speaker B: All right, well, let's kick off our conversation today with what AI looks like in interviewing today. What tools are companies actually using and what processes are they using them for?

Speaker A: Yeah, so that's a great question. I think first and foremost I would just say that AI is pretty much used everywhere at this point. Whether we kind of consciously recognize that it is actually an AI tool or otherwise, it's not just a chatbot. It could be something as simple. You know, there's so many integrations. So, um, that being said, I think we are seeing AI usage everywhere across the interview experience and um, the hiring experience. So whether it's a chatbot and a career page to help direct people to the right jobs or, you know, for instance, at Bamboo, we use AI to write clear job descriptions, to help with candidate searches, to make sure that we're finding the most relevant ones through communications, and to make sure that we're tailoring communications to get back to candidates faster. I mean, there's so many different uses from like an administrative perspective and then even more so using Zoom or Google Meet, you have AI tools that can help transcribe your entire meeting, which is amazing. So yeah, there's so many different places that, you know, we can use AI and then on kind of on the back end on the Applicant Tracking System side or ats. Some, uh, ATS is use AI to kind of rank candidates based on their relevancy to the job description. So that can be really useful as well.

Speaker B: There's just so many resources out there right now with like AI and how it could integrate into everyday use for everything that we use Bamboo HR Performance

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Speaker B: um, well, let's start with the common misconceptions about AI use in the interview process. And, and I'm specifically wondering what this looks like on the back end for employers. Any thoughts here?

Speaker A: Yes, I have a big one. I think the main misconception, which I think is so important to like set the record straight on is that AI is auto rejecting you as an applicant. And I just wanted to say, like, I understand that job searching is hard and it is very difficult, it's emotional. And so I've seen a lot of discourse around, you know, people assuming that know they got auto rejected. And I just want to say that every candidate has to be looked at by a human before a decision is made. And so I think, yeah, I would say that is the top misconception I've seen about AI use in the interview process. So other than that, I can't really think of anything else. But yeah, I think that's probably the most common one that I've seen.

Speaker B: And where are you seeing that AI is the most helpful in the interview process today? And where is it overhyped potentially.

Speaker A: So recruiters have a huge workload. They are truly balancing, ah, so many things at once. And I think a lot of people, you know, there's a lot of minutiae that goes into being a recruiter, whether it's communications and searches or scheduling interviews, things like that. And when you multiply that based on how many candidates you have at one time that you're working with and trying to keep warm and keep engaged, it's a lot of work. Um, so I think AI tools can be really helpful in the communications piece. So really tailoring communications, whether it's an outreach, whether it's an update, email or otherwise, just to ensure that the messaging will land and that you can get it more quickly so that candidates stay engaged. I think any sort of interview scheduling tool is amazing. Especially I've heard that some of these tools can actually look at your calendar, see how many meetings you've had, and then maybe like help rebalance your workload. Because I mean, all of us have had those days where you're just in meetings back to back or interviews back to back and you're just burned out by the end of the day. And that's not a great candidate experience either. So I think for all things like administrative tasks and candidate experience, AI is super helpful as far as where it could be overhyped. I just think that with something so people oriented that requires like a lot of empathy and human connection. There is like no world in which AI will be a replacement for that. There's, that's where I don't see AI being particularly useful.

Speaker B: Well, and what about for candidates? What are they using AI for in their prep?

Speaker A: Speaking of, from personal experience, when I was in the job market a couple years ago, um, AI was really useful for tailoring my resume to ensure that it was being, you know, matched as closely as possible with positions I was, um, applying to for doing research and for, uh, maybe drafting potential interview questions so I could practice. My friend actually built a chatbot that he built it around being a senior recruiter who has done X, Y and Z. And so when you speak to this chatbot, it can actually help you prepare for interviews and offer like insights into maybe where you could improve your resume. I mean, that is such a valuable use of a tool like this. And it is still super helpful to of course, talk to a human and say, hey, can you look at my resume? Hey, can you help me prep for an interview? But if you're in a time crunch or perhaps someone's not available, it's great to have a backup plan.

Speaker B: I love that because it kind of makes me think back to my job searching days and it was always a phone call to a friend, family member, and I'm like, hey, this is the job or company I'm looking at. Here's kind of the things I want to talk about with my experience, I think are applicable. Can you give me feedback on what I'm conveying here? Because I want to make sure I'm representing myself in the best way possible because I hold my worth. And so you're wanting to convey everything and you have such a short time period to really make that impression. And, and so with AI, like you said, like, especially during time crunches, like that becomes your thought partner.

Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. And just cut through the noise a little bit. Especially like when you're job searching for hours at a time and you just get tired. It's just, I think can help you be much more efficient and, you know, tailored with your approach, which as we know, based on the data, like yields better results as a job seeker. So that's always. Yeah, I think it's a really big game changer for job seekers. For sure.

Speaker B: Yes. One, how should employers communicate to candidates when AI is used in their hiring process?

Speaker A: I think that they should be very transparent about it, like in as many places as possible. I think the career site is a great first step and I'm seeing that a lot. Like, we're seeing a huge trend of employers sharing their policies or rules around AI use. Um, and especially we're seeing a lot from the AI companies themselves, like Anthropic and OpenAI. And I think that's amazing because a, you know, they're modeling ethical behavior, which is wonderful, and then being transparent and having a Policy allows for the record to be set straight from the beginning and set those expectations so that people know what to expect and then aren't left guessing as to like where, you know, filling on those gaps themselves basically.

Speaker B: So yeah, it's, it's a uh, clearest kind from Brene Brown, that quote that she says like yes to mind here. Because when you're not transparent, the person on the other end is missing a lot of facts and then they tell themselves a story that most likely isn't true, but they, they're basing it off of whatever facts they have so that they don't know what your stance is. Uh, with AI or how are you using it, they could come up with the story that they tell themselves. I love that you kind of mentioned that with those employers that you're seeing where on their careers page they have that fact section. So is it, yeah, a statement that says, hey, just so you know, if you are part of this interviewing process, here's how AI is implemented or how are you seeing that?

Speaker A: Yeah, so I've seen something as simple as just like under their FAQs saying hey, this is how we use AI as well as whole pages dedicated to it with a nice layout, which is great, we love a good UX ui, you know, experience. But seeing entire pages built out that says, hey, like this is our philosophy, this is how we use it as a company, this is what we expect from you. And here are some do's and don'ts and I think it's just wonderful to have that. And I also laughed because I remember, I think the anthropic one, they said, but don't worry, a human also looked at this as well. And so it's like, because then everyone's like, well did I do that as well? Right. So I think it's wonderful to just be super explicit with like what you're doing. And I mean that makes sense. I think good companies should also have like what their interview process looks like. It's basically the same thing, just like adding a little more context as to uh, you know, this is what our interview process looks like. And hey, these are some of the tools that we use as well to hopefully enhance your experience as a candidate.

Speaker B: Mhm. Well, what are the risks of low transparency about AI in interviewing from like a legal and reputational standpoint?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean obviously I am neither a legal or AI expert per se, but I would say that like if you lack transparency, people will fill in the blanks themselves and that usually is not going to end well. I think from a legal perspective I would be worried about potential for discrimination or bias concerns and reputational standpoint, I think I'd be concerned about the same things as well. Um, so I think it just really behooves of everyone to be super explicit about where and when they're using AI to just avoid any heartache down the road.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: I think you mentioned in our prep call about you should never have AI make a decision that should be made by the human, especially when it comes to hiring. Right, Absolutely.

Speaker A: I mean, especially with something as human as interviewing. It's like you can't use AI to replace those human interactions. And so you should never have an AI chatbot do something that a human should do. It's like we have to have a wall somewhere and standard somewhere. And I think that in itself is like the best, maybe North Star that people can use.

Speaker B: And do you see AI eventually playing a role in cultural fit assessments or is that too risky?

Speaker A: Oh, maybe it's a hot take. I think it is too risky. Especially we know that AI tools are honed over time. They're honed over time based on, um, what humans are inputting in it. And so I think that leaves a lot of room for wonderful things, but it also leaves a lot of room for bias, even if it's unintentional, particularly if the teams leveraging themselves are not diverse. I think bias could really creep in. Um, and so that being said, perhaps AI would be really useful in synthesizing a lot of input. So perhaps someone went through six rounds of interviews and you have the transcripts from all of those, and then you're able to use AI to kind of glean the key cultural fit assessments, like from every interview. Amazing. That's, I think, an appropriate use in that context. Otherwise, I think if you're saying, hey, should this person be hired based on your thoughts around their culture fit? Like that just feels a little risky and also frankly, lazy. So yeah, I think there's a time and a place going back to what we were saying. It's a human decision, you gotta make it yourself.

Speaker B: So yeah, well, it kind of goes back to like over the years, people who kind of said, like, oh, are they a culture fit or not? It's been debated over time to where at some point we were saying, no, it's about value add. What are they actually adding? Um, and it comes down to that, you know, how are you defining as a business for somebody to be successful at your business and not being so general with, you know, that culture Fit per se. It's really coming strong with that definition and not relying on AI to tell you that.

Speaker A: Oh for sure. And I mean I saw it all the time as a recruiter where like a hiring manager couldn't give me a clear reason of why they didn't want to move forward with someone, but they would always say culture fit. And you always have to poke and prod and say, well, what do you mean? And so I just, with a machine that seems kind of inappropriate to do that. So yeah, I think super important to make sure that a human is really at the end of the day making that decision.

Speaker B: And let's switch gears now and chat about the guide that bamboohr recently released about AI and hiring. What inspired your team to create a guide specifically for candidates on using AI in interviews?

Speaker A: So I would say it's two things. One, everyone's doing it, so we should too. Transparency is always a great thing. And so that is a bandwagon. I will always happily jump on the number two. We actually had a few instances where recruiters were seeing candidates using AI, probably in an unideal or inappropriate way. And when you don't already have a policy out there, then you, you know, it's like, okay, well we need to get something out. And so yeah, we're really excited about it and definitely sleuth some other sites to get some inspiration, but we just wanted to make sure that we put something out, especially with AI being such a core part of the BambooHR platform and it's a very big part of like who we are as a company and where we're going. It, you know, was appropriate and timely to uh, ensure that we had some, some expectations set around that as well. So.

Speaker B: Well, what are some of the do's and don'ts outlined in the guide when it comes to candidates using AI tools like ChatGPT to prepare for interviews?

Speaker A: Yeah, so a lot of them are what we've discussed already. So for the do's, it's we recommend using it to, you know, tighten up your resume, do research about us, maybe generate some potential interview questions that you might feel more confident coming into your interview. And as far as the don'ts, we ask for you to not use it during the live interview because unfortunately that was starting to become a concern and then also to not use an AI chatbot to complete your take home assignment. So it's like totally fine to use it to research or brainstorm, like we were saying, like kind of using it as a partner to help get those ideas flowing. But it should never be like a copy paste response. And at the end of the day, any sort of take home assignment should reflect your thinking, which I guarantee is probably better anyway. So that's really a win win for everyone.

Speaker B: And one of the things I love something you had said in our prep call was like, you are more interesting as a candidate than AI.

Speaker A: Absolutely. AI doesn't have the delight of being a messy and awkward human being, which, you know, it's like, yeah, I guarantee that you, if you're a job seeker right now, I promise you, you are probably hundreds of times more interesting than a chatbot. And I bet that you have these great ideas that you want to put out into the world. And so AI is great for helping to partner with you and kind of maybe fleshing some of those ideas out. But like, I promise you, your work is at the end of the day and your thoughts are going to be far more interesting.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yes. What about red flags? Especially with a guide like this already outlining what's okay and not okay. What red flags should HR professionals watch out for if they suspect a, uh, candidate is using AI to generate interview responses?

Speaker A: That's a great question. I think in general it will probably be pretty obvious because based on the feedback I was getting from recruiters, it was like there was a definite delay in response. They could hear the clacking of the keyboard in the background, which is just like kind of awkward and uncomfortable for everyone. I know that I've seen a lot of discourse around this that people are kind of now able to pick up that there's like a very particular cadence to how, uh, these chatbots like speak or like produce responses. And so I think anything that sounds way too rehearsed and generic could potentially be an AI generated, uh, response. But I do want to say give justice to the EM M Dash, because a lot of people are like, oh, they used an M M Dash. That is definitely chat GPT. And as a writer, that is not always true. Some people are just amazing at using those. Um, it's probably a skill and a muscle that's built up over time to really identify it, but those are just some things that come to mind.

Speaker B: Yes, well, and what do you recommend candidates do to use AI ethically without sounding robotic or misrepresenting themselves during interviews?

Speaker A: I think candidates just need to remember that they are more than just the sum of their achievements and that AI can't replace their unique experiences, their unique perspectives and ideas. I would just encourage candidates to use it tactically, use it to help streamline or tweak things. That's great. Use it to help you prepare and so that you feel like you're putting your best self forward. But I think at the end of the day I would just remind everyone that like you should let you and your ideas or personality shine.

Speaker B: There's so many uses that you can do with AI to really prep for that, that time.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And prep yourself. And before we close, let's leave the audience with a solid action item. Like what's one thing every HR leader should do this year to get ahead of the AI interviewing curve?

Speaker A: I would say understand what your company policy is and if you don't have one, you should draft one and socialize it widely. So I think not just externally but internally as well so that everyone's on the same page. Because I think this isn't an if this is going to be a big thing. It's a. When AI is here, I think there's a lot of questions that do need to be answered and a lot of great discourse that's happening around that. But I think we should just stay ahead of it by ensuring that we have a policy, we have rules and publicizing those widely so that everyone understands when they're interacting with your company.

Speaker B: I love that one. And one thing I know that we, we didn't get to I think is kind of a uh, it's a good plugin right here that we try to for was our audiences like the small to medium sized businesses, HR teams of one. And you might not have AI implemented in all various areas. Maybe it is just a single program but you can start small. Even thinking about in the process like as recruiters there's, like you said, there's so many different things and aspects they're in and starting small with how you're communicating in the business because sometimes.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: I think you had mentioned this about like second guessing yourself of what you're sending. Oh yeah, we've all had that. I still wanted to this day of accidentally sending an email where one of my words got autocorrected to swear word and I was like horrified. I'm sitting there thinking like how could this happen?

Speaker A: Um, it's awful, it's awful.

Speaker B: But we've all been there. And so utilizing AI to even understand like hey, could you make sure that my message is grammatically correct or hey, I'm messaging to an executive. Because as recruiters you're communicating with various areas within the organization.

Speaker A: Oh yeah.

Speaker B: How you respond to a uh, frontline leader might look a little bit different. Than an executive. And so you ask saying, hey, this is what I'm thinking, that this is my audience. Can you help me make this better and be able to deliver more concise message with the same content? And it can really help you not having to have that time of second guessing yourself, not having the frantic moment of like, oh my gosh, I misspelled a word. And just being a lot quicker in your communications, which saves you more time in your day.

Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Or job descriptions even. Especially for those teams, those HR teams of like one or a few, like where you are probably doing several different things like use it to just make your life easier because, uh, we know that you're juggling so many aspects of like the HR experience. And any place that you can really make, uh, something that could take hours could then be done in a few minutes. And that's incredible. And frees you up to do the things that really matter.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Because we really care about setting people free to do great work, right?

Speaker A: We sure do. We sure do. That's bamboohr, baby.

Speaker B: Yes. All right, well, thank you for joining us on today's episode and a big thank you to our guest, Nancy. Thank you so much for joining me today. It was so much fun to have you on this podcast. It was so fun to learn about the history major, you know, all the various background knowledge that you have and just some really great golden nuggets that you shared with our audience today. So thank you so much for our listeners. Check out our show notes. You'll find links to resources we think are helpful with this topic. We invite you to Visit us@hremplug.com where you can sign up to be notified of all future podcast episodes and view the latest episodes in podcast format. Stay tuned for our next episode. Thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's episode, the best way to support our show is by leaving a quick review. It should just take a minute and it will help us find more great listeners just like you. Today's episode is brought to you by BambooHR, the complete HR software. Simplify HR with award winning solutions for everything from hired to retire with bamboohr.