Building a Top Talent Destination: BambooHR's Nancy Boyce on Employer Brands

Speaker A: No matter how great your brand is or how great your company's going to be, there are always going to be negative reviews. And so I think first and foremost it's important to look at it and say, okay, do they have a point? How can we or the leadership team, you know, not be defensive about it? How you or your company responds says the most about you.

Speaker B: Hello and welcome to this episode of HR Unplugged. Building a top talent destination. Nancy Boyce on Employer Brands. I'm, um, your host, Vanessa Brulot. Join us in this episode, HR Unplugged. As we interview Nancy Boyce, senior employer brand manager at bamboohr M. We'll walk through the basics of employer branding, what it is and why it's important, and dive into bamboohr's journey to a more defined employer value proposition. This episode is for you if you're interested in a peek behind the curtains of a real employer branding process and what bamboohr is hoping to see from their new strategy. Hey, everyone. Welcome to today's episode of HRM Plugged. We have a great episode planned for you today, but first, let's introduce our guest. She's a returning guest and we're so happy to have her. Welcome back. Please welcome Nancy Boyce.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me again, Vanessa. I am pleased that I have not been banned from HR Unplugged. It is an absolute joy to be back for round two. I'm so stoked to be here.

Speaker B: Yes, there's too many fun conversations this last time. We couldn't end there. Yes, I'm.

Speaker A: Yes, I am so happy to be back and chat about everything EB with you.

Speaker B: So let's kick off our conversation today with some basics. What exactly is employer branding and how's it different from corporate branding?

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. So they both work together very closely, but let's just say corporate branding is really focusing on a company's overall image and reputation and their goal is to target customers, investors, consumers, depending on, you know, your line of business. While Employer brand is really targeting people, so it's attracting, engaging and retaining talent by showcasing the company as a desirable place to work.

Speaker B: And do you think the importance of employer branding has changed over the last few years? Is it more important now than ever before? And if so, why?

Speaker A: So I think employer brand has really always been important, but I think we have really seen a, uh, shift over the last several years or so about, like, how it plays a role. Think about to where we were five years ago, right? We were in the Midst of this global pandemic, there was a ton of uncertainty. I think a lot of people were really nervous about what that meant for their job. I think there were a lot of people who were working from home for the first time. So there was just like there were a lot of things changing at that point in time. We saw a lot of layoffs that kind of put people back into the market. And then we saw this huge post pandemic talent boom, right? There was tons of hiring going on and I think we really saw a talent driven market for a couple years there. And now we're kind of back in an interesting place where, you know, there's still plenty of hiring going on, but we are seeing a little bit of that, uh, instability in certain sectors. And so that being said, I think really understanding who you are as an employer and what you bring to the table is especially important to A, not only help these candidates cut through the noise and focus their attention, but B, set yourself apart from the pack. A good employer brand really does help improve your metrics, whether it's for hiring or retention. Um, it can help lower things like your cost per hire, your time to fill. It can save your, your organization money if you're doing the right things and hiring efficiently and then of course, retaining that talent.

Speaker B: There's a few things that you had mentioned there that it's really intriguing. You know, you mentioned that people are looking for like, what are your value set? Anybody who's, who's looking for new roles, especially if you're, you're aiming for that top talent, like you're, you're really needing to show them like, hey, what does stability look like here? Yes. And what does belonging look like? Is it the right place for them too? And when you set yourself apart of like helping people see that, of like, oh, I could totally visualize myself there. You're really helping the story of that employee branding. Like, do you agree with that?

Speaker A: Oh, for sure. I think a lot of people focus on making sure that they're as palatable as possible. But I think a good employer brand also kind of shows what you aren't and helps people self select out. Because like, the reality is, is that not every workplace is meant for us. And that is a good thing. I think it's a good thing to help really tailor your narrative to attract the right talent, not just all talent.

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Speaker B: some of the biggest mistakes companies make when trying to build an employer brand? Like, can you name any specifics or share an example?

Speaker A: Sure. I think some of the biggest challenges or maybe mistakes would be not building a brand based on actual data, not listening to your employees, focusing too much on the past perhaps and not really balancing the where you want to be. But then this is so annoying, but then also being too aspirational. So I definitely think it's, it's a fine balance of all of those things. And I think also if you are really speaking in like platitudes and generalities, that can also be a big mistake. Uh, it's like if you removed your company logo and name off of your career site and the content reads as if it could be anyone, then like, perhaps it's time to really go back and just reevaluate some things and see maybe like, okay, where can we maybe improve upon that?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Well, in. For employer branding, a lot of folks say you need marketing and HR to work together in lockstep. So in your experience, if so, what are your recommendations to make this process easier?

Speaker A: Yes, that is 100% true. And I think that's honestly one of my favorite parts of the job, to be honest. Um, it definitely requires a really tight partnership. And perhaps the hot take of mine is that I think it really benefits anyone working in employer branding to actually have experience in recruiting as well. Because like, thinking about how to attract people is a bit different than how to attract consumers. And so, you know, it's very different from selling a product. Like you're selling opportunities, you're selling jobs, you're selling an experience. Right. Which there's so much overlap there. And having that strong marketing experience is crucial. But I think just knowing how to put yourself in the shoes of a recruiter who, you know, speaks with these people day in and day out, that is really, really helpful. So I think if you don't have the experience, I would just really encourage folks to shadow recruiting and attend meetings as much as possible. Like learn about the process, what is working, what's not working, what are they hearing from candidates, and then understand perhaps some opportunities for improvement. Because I think there's always the little things like candidate communications or Even just like a bit of a process improvement tweak that can really help make a difference. But in reality it is such a cross functional role and I do think that's why probably employers find it a bit challenging to figure out where to stick it because it really does have both HR and marketing. Like I myself have worked within the HR or recruiting teams and now right now uh, at Bamboo, I'm in the marketing, corporate marketing space which is awesome. It really doesn't fit neatly into either category. So I think having the ability to kind of understand and bridge both worlds is super key and like I said, is definitely one of the most fun aspects of the job. So I think as far as recommendations I would have and just like really easy things for people to do to like improve upon that, which is to really continuously meet and have maybe a council of stakeholders. So whether it's like your recruiting and you know, employer brand folks, but also maybe include product marketing people from time to time because you always want to make sure that you're keeping that narrative in mind as well. Pr, internal, external comms and then build a really tight connection with your design team as well to ensure that there's a really cohesive like brand image. My time at Bamboo, it's been great because I'm working very closely with those people already. So yeah, I think just there's something to be said about just getting everyone in one place on a call to talk about things and get on the same page. That just really helps make the process a lot easier and smooth.

Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, I love this so much because coming from that background in recruiting at ah, Bamboo to you, like I 100% agree and love that you're here and like partnering with, with the team and making sure that everyone is in that lockstep.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And because recruiters really are at the front lines of knowing like what are candidates saying and what's important to them coming into the workspace. Because I remember getting on the call with, with candidates and you're sharing stories of like different experiences, things that they'd experience in real time and different things that you know, capture their attention as far as like if this is a right place for you, uh, but partnering that with, you know, someone in your role and in with that employer branding and marketing piece. It's like having everybody kind of formulate the story together and help making sure they're all aligned.

Speaker A: Oh for sure. And like, you know, your recruiters are your, your biggest brand advocates and ambassadors and recruiters have such a versatile skill set and it really is they're the ones showcasing your company on a day to day basis. So equipping them with everything they need to be successful in that and also ensuring that they're kind of them as well as other hiring teams because of course we know there's lots of other folks involved in the hiring process. Ensuring that people are able to articulate the story of your company in the same way is also really important because then otherwise if you're sending mixed messages and candidates are going to be like wait, uh, which one is it? So that's also great. But yeah, I always love to just kind of plugged that I used to be a recruiter because a honestly I feel like it has gotten me some street cred with recruiting teams if I'm new at the company, which is very important. But then also I want recruiters to know that there is another, you know, there's a path to exploring other things. Like you yourself used to be a recruiter and I, you know, now look where you are. So it's always really cool. I think recruiters often are, are helping other people achieve their dreams career wise so much that they often don't think about their own. So I'm like, there is these options out here for you too.

Speaker B: So yeah, I love it. What role do employee reviews on platforms like Glassdoor and indeed play into employer branding?

Speaker A: Yes. Okay. Please know I am reading from the screen right now, so don't judge me. These are a lot of facts, but I have a bunch of statistics for you. So 86% of employees and job seekers research company reviews and ratings to decide where to apply for a job. 75% of active job seekers are likely to apply for a job if the employer actively manages its employer brand. So, you know, engaging with posts, et cetera. 50% of candidates say they wouldn't work for a company with a bad reputation even for a pay increase. 92% of people would consider changing jobs if offered a role with a company with an excellent corporate reputation. So that being said, I think those numbers really speak for itself. These platforms, whether we want to believe it or not, do play a huge role in employer branding. I think it's really paramount to stay engaged with them and you know, respond to reviews honestly, even if they're uncomfortable or difficult. Because I think it's safe to say that you can assume that like most job seekers will be using it as a barometer to understand if they want to pursue a career with you.

Speaker B: Yes. Yes. Well, can you share an example of a company that does employer branding really well, is there anyone we looked at as we were starting from the beginning here at Bamboo hr and what are they doing? Right.

Speaker A: I'll answer the first question first because when I came on, I wanted to get an understanding of, like, where did we look, you know, especially before I came in. And, you know, whether we like to invent it or not, we all bring our own experience and biases kind of with that. But so when I was chatting with the team, it looks like we looked at a lot of other folks in this Hris space. You know, you have giants like Workday who do an excellent job. And of course, we have a lot of really cool companies in the silicon slopes. And so I think there's a lot of great inspiration to be pulled from there. But then, of course, when I came in, I'm looking at the companies I used to work for, which is SAP and Flex Support. Um, SAP has a really incredible employer brand and they've been so steady for years with it, which is really helpful to look at when we're still very much on a big growth trajectory of building that brand. So it's really helpful to look at someone who's been around for over 50 years to see, okay, like, what works, what doesn't. Shout out to SAP. They have a great team there. But then even outside of like, the obvious space of tech, I mean, I look at people like Wegmans, Costco, Patagonia, you know, they do an incredible job of really articulating what makes them different in the retail space. And I think people really clamor for jobs there because they're proud of the brand and would be proud to work there. I love seeing companies like Androel and Coinbase like, what they do with that, because I think both are kind of known for being disruptors and a little bit like, of more challenging work environments, but they pride themselves on that. And so they are very, very clear about what that looks like. And Andrew recently did a Don't Work for Anduril campaign. And it was so funny. It reminded me there was like this great campaign that, uh, the Norway Tourism Board did. It said, don't come to Oslo. And it was just like a really cheeky, you know, video saying all the, the great things about Oslo. Right. But kind of in a curmudgeonly way, being like, oh, well, you know, and, and that's kind of how Andrew approached it. It was so funny, but also very well done. And I think at the end of the day, probably showcased the, the perks of working there to the people that they would want to attract. So that was really cool. And I think what all of these companies do well and what they do, right, is that they really align their employer brand, like, with their corporate brands, and then also clearly articulate what you can expect and maybe what you won't get there. You have a very, like, clear understanding of what your experience might look like.

Speaker B: I love the example that you gave of that employer being super cheeky. It's amazing to me to see, like, over time what companies are advertising or what platforms are using to advertise to people to like, come work at their companies. Over the years, people have gotten more and more creative. There's a lot more trends, there's a lot more things happening. Because I even remember just eight years ago it was like, how can you use a Spotify platform? Or like, there's so many different things. And now I'm seeing like, TikTok trends. And, uh, it's really interesting.

Speaker A: It is. And so it's just fun to see what everyone else is doing and it's fun to see when people get really creative and. And it's fun to see different brand voices. Right. Because not every company might be able to pull off something cheeky and funny, like perhaps your brand might be more serious. And that is great too. It's cool to see people really understand what their Persona is and then leaning into that. And that's been a really fun thing to do at, uh, Bamboo as well, because I think we are playful to a degree, but we are very sage. We like to present information and, and show thought leadership. So it's a really fun, fun space to work in for that reason. So if you love creativity and just kind of, uh, you know, having fun with that, I think employer branding is probably the job. You didn't know you wanted that well.

Speaker B: And you gave some really great advice to HR teams of one. You know, where they might have a small company, maybe there's like 15 people, you know, that's a little bit different than 300 people. And yeah, might not have employer branding, but I like that you said, like, know what your brand voice is, because probably going to dictate the rest of how you navigate, um, how you scale and what you do advertise.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And especially for smaller companies, it's like, sure, you might not have a dedicated person, but you still have an employer brand whether you know, whether you're actively working on it or not. And so if you have an HR team of one, there's definitely some things that you can do to just really have like a cohesive, like voice and narrative and helping to build and scale that. So that's a. Honestly, uh, that's a really exciting time to be at a company because then you get to build that from scratch.

Speaker B: Well, how do you ensure your employer brand aligns with the actual employee experience? Like, do you have any metrics you like to track? And if so, which ones? How do you track them?

Speaker A: For us to ensure that our employer brand was aligning with the actual experience, we did a lot of research and a lot of interviews, a lot of conversations. I mean there was so much data that like really went into this. And so we uh, did ours through like one on one employee interviews. And we tried to make sure we had like a good representation from across lines of business and you know, leadership levels. We had an anonymous survey and then also had some like other employee survey data to leverage. We looked at glassdoor data, kind of got this huge host of data to understand like what the experience looked like and then also understand there were differences depending on which line of business you were in. Because I think that's kind of a natural thing that does happen within larger businesses especially. And so of course, like, we will continue to monitor and validate all of these experiences and just like be prepared to continue the conversations to like, pivot when needed. But as far as metrics, like, we have quite a few that we're tracking and we are establishing kind of a few new ones to understand. Like basically, very simply, is your experience aligning with the vision that was sold to you during the hiring process? And so that's something that's going to be newer that we can start tracking, uh, starting this year, which is exciting. As far as other metrics we look at, recruiting really tracks a lot of, you know, candidate mps. So are you having a positive experience? Referrals are a good indicator, um, your quality of hire. We actually have two targets for that and I'm proud to say that we are, I believe, exceeding both of them. So that's always a good indicator as well, because good employer brand ensures that you're hiring the right people. Right. And then it could be as simple as looking at the number of applications. What does that trend look like year over year, as well as the offer acceptance rate? Are people accepting these offers? And so those are some of the metrics that we're looking at. That being said, whether you know, like you're a company of 15 or many thousands, like there are so many different employer branding metrics you can look at. So really just take your pick and and see what makes the most sense for you.

Speaker B: Mhm. What are some low budget ways smaller companies can invest in employer branding?

Speaker A: I would say do the small stuff and the low hanging fruit. Like look at the basics. What do your job descriptions look like? What about communications that go to candidates? So whether that's like an email saying thanks for applying or an email to get them scheduled for interviews, et cetera, or rejecting candidates as well, that's also important. I think looking at any sort of communications you have on a company level, like do you have a unified narrative for what your company does and how to talk about it? So really addressing the who, what, where, why, if you don't have that, can you compile some talking points for that? I would say can you talk to recent hires and understand like why they wanted to come here in the first place as well as long term employees to understand what is keeping them there. That way you can really, especially through those conversations, you can really identify the unique trends that come through if you have the bandwidth. And I know it's hard because content takes a lot of work. If you can do some storytelling with lo fi content. So that means just like having a, you know, employee film themselves with their phone, like that's the type of content that people like to see and is really resonating more as opposed to like the super polished videos. Uh, so that stuff works great on, on social media. So can you do you know some stories or testimonials that way? And then finally I'd say if you have a dedicated careers page, just take a look at that, see what it looks like. Where are there some kind of small opportunities to improve as you continue to build your brand?

Speaker B: So what metrics or KPIs should HR teams track to measure the success of employer branding efforts? Anything different from the metrics you use to make sure the employee experience is aligned to the employer brand.

Speaker A: So especially for HR teams outside of recruiting, I think looking at ah, retention, what your promotion rates look like because you don't necessarily want people to stay, remain in the same role for their whole time. Yeah, I think those are two really kind of crucial ones. And then I would say, you know, in addition to the ones we talked about earlier with like candidate nps, what is your employee experience looking like?

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: What's the NPS score for that? I think referral rates are really useful for HR teams as well because it's like understanding your employees are your ambassadors. So if your employees aren't recommending people to work here, then we might want to Explore that. Right. So, you know, looking at the referral rates and then you can even go down to cost per hire and things like that as well. And of course, like candidate demographics and your social engagement and things like that. But I think for HR teams specifically, like, looking more kind of around the people part of it and like, what their journey looks like are probably going to be the most meaningful ones to track. There are so many metrics you can use to choose from. And so it's like there's never a one size fits all approach. Right? So it's like, what makes the most sense for your business as well.

Speaker B: I have a really interesting question for you. How do you recover or repair an employer brand after a reputational hit?

Speaker A: It's something that can happen at any point in your company's journey. And I definitely don't think there's a one size fits all approach. That's pretty much a common theme throughout this whole conversation, isn't it? But I think depending on what your team structure looks like, working with PR and or your comms team to really draft talking points for any challenging press is definitely really helpful. And so that when recruiters or hiring teams especially are speaking with candidates, they know how to talk about it. And then I would say for reviews, because that always happens, no matter how great your brand is or how great your company is going to be, there are always going to be negative reviews. And so I think first and foremost, it's important to look at it and say, okay, do they have a point? How can we or the leadership team, you know, not be defensive about it? How you or your company responds says the most about you. And so I think at the end of the day, it's just really important to not lie and have honest discussions is super important. And then engaging and responding with those reviews is especially important as well. And then including a call to action in as well, instead of just saying like, okay, well, I'm sorry that you feel that way. Cheers. I think saying like, having a call to action like, hey, we really want to understand more and learn more. If you're comfortable, would you please reach out to us here? And I think just like showing that you do want to learn and that you do want to, you know, try to make it right says a lot, right? So that's kind of like, I would say the first part of it and then second, I think double down on the good stuff, right? Like, what is good about your company? So through your storytelling, can you do like a good benefit brag? Can you talk about a Value or culture moment, that's really important and that like shows the great things about working at your company. Um, can you have a great employee testimonial to help like shift the narrative a bit? Like these things will take time, but I think remaining consistent and honest is, is super important, especially in a day and age where I think people can tell if you're being disingenuous really quickly. And a really nice thing, uh, that I read recently said that like 85% of job seekers say their opinion of a company can change based on their interaction that they have with your company. So ensuring your hiring teams, your customer service teams, whatever, are doing the best that they can that can turn a brand attractor into a brand promoter. And so that's where those, those little moments really do make a huge difference.

Speaker B: Mhm. I feel like that needs to be on a quote wall. Brand brand detractor versus brand promoter that's made it onto the quote wall. Nancy, we're making.

Speaker A: Thank you. Just so many sound bites today. I'm very pleased.

Speaker B: Lots of golden nuggets. All right, well, today we really wanted to dive into the bamboo HR process for employer branding. I know you've been going through this process here and you've just released a new employer value proposition. So first, is that the same as employer branding? And second, talk to us about what spurred the initial project.

Speaker A: An employer value proposition or an evp. But your employer value proposition isn't a component of employer branding. So it's not the same. But it's like think of it as like a puzzle piece within the great employer branding puzzle. It's what someone can expect to get from your company in exchange for their time and skills. And it's not just compensation of benefits because like I think everyone kind of expects that when they go to work somewhere. But that is a certainly part of it, of course, but the intangibles as well. So like what will they glean from your company working there besides just a salary? And so, you know, an EVP is important because it really is like a foundational aspect of a good employer branding strategy. Like you need to know what sets you apart that you can like understand what to highlight during your storytelling. Right. So that's kind of EVP in a nutshell.

Speaker B: What does the new EVP look like

Speaker A: when you work in a space like ours that has so many people who are in this space? Right. Like unfortunately, we are not the only all in one HR solution. Right. So that can be a little challenging. Right. Because there are so many other companies in the space. So for me it was important to remember that like, yes, there will always be some similarities in culture and vibe and stuff like that. So for us, like building our EBP was really trying to find what genuinely sets us apart. And I think for us, like something that we're very proud of as a company is being profitable and bootstrapped as we say. Like we have been sustainably profitable for over 16 years. And I think that financial stability is helpful because it means that we can actually invest in our people long term and not just like when the market is great. And I think it's so fun because I love at uh, Company Update when they share those long term like milestones. And I remember when they celebrated someone the other month that was here for 15 years and it was just really cool because it's like, wow, like we don't see that very often anymore. Right? Like the, the nature of job seeking has changed. People tend to work for a company for a couple years and then move on to the next one. So to see people who genuinely want to stick, stick around and have been able to because we've been financially smart I think is really, really cool. And another thing that we've really doubled down on is like we are obsessed with making work better for millions and then we start with you. So, and that's just not us being like marketing, right? But like we use our own platform so we know that we can improve the employee experience for over 3 million users and we can improve it with ourselves first. Um, so I think that's really cool. And another thing that we're focusing on is just like really building for the long haul. You know, we don't necessarily have like flashy funding rounds and things like that, but like we are a stable growing company, um, where you can actually build a career. And I think, you know, we are really proud to work on products that genuinely matter and affect people's day to day lives. We're looking for people who want to help us transform that. So that's kind of what we really focused on because I think the reality is like a lot of companies talk about employee experience and how important that is, but then they treat their own people as expendable. And I think we've really proven for almost what, 20 years that like you can grow sustainably, you can stay profitable and actually live your values and not just when it's convenient.

Speaker B: Yes, yes, one. And what are you hoping to see from the new evp? Any early insights you can share?

Speaker A: First and foremost, we're really Hoping to see improved storytelling. Um, Bamboo has always been really good at that. Like, it was great to come into a company who really already knew who they were, but still was on. It's on a growth trajectory. It's just really fun to build that. So, um, so I think for us, just really improving the storytelling and having that unified storytelling to really show what makes us special and just have a little more cohesive of a storytelling experience, I think is what we're looking for. And like I said before, we want to cut through some of that noise that, ah, job seekers experience because it is so overwhelming to look for a job. And so we want to just be very open and honest about who we are so that the right people find us. And candidly, I think we're doing a good job of that because I know that our numbers are looking good. And, you know, we have, like, a 90% offer acceptance rate, which is awesome. I think our team should be really proud of that. And it seems like we have a slight increase in applications versus this time last year. So those are some good early insights that excite us, for sure. We did recently release a survey to understand kind of how the employee experience is aligning with that vision. And so that's. I'm really eager to see how that looks. We just want to make sure that we're continuing to position ourselves in a way that is attractive, that people want to come work for us, but then also know what to expect when they're working for us. So I'm really excited to continue finding out how we're selling our vision, and then we'll continue benchmarking that, you know, through employee engagement surveys over the next months and years.

Speaker B: I mean, that's really exciting. Like, really exciting adventure. And it just kind of makes me think, like, transparency is so key to be like, do you really want to sing on this stage or is this not the stage you want to sing on?

Speaker A: Oh, for sure. I, uh, couldn't say it better, so.

Speaker B: Well, as we wrap up our episode today, what's one practical step listeners can take this week to improve their organization's employer brand?

Speaker A: I would say I'm a huge fan of a SWOT analysis. So that's your strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. I would say take stock of where your company is on. On your employer brand journey, figure out what those strengths are, and double down on them. I think that's a great place to start this week.

Speaker B: I love SWOT analysis, so I'm so glad you mentioned it. All right, well, thank you so much for joining us on today's episode and a big thank you to our guest Nancy. It was so fun to have you on the podcast and we learned so much good content from you uh, with employer branding like I mean this is such an exciting career option for for many folks and for uh, our listeners. Check out our show notes. You find links to resources we think are helpful with this topic. We invite you to Visit us@hrmplug.com where you can sign up to be notified of all future podcast episodes and view the latest episodes in podcast format. Stay tuned for our next episode. Thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's episode, the best way to support our show is by leaving a quick review. It should just take a minute and it will help help us find more great listeners just like you. Today's episode is brought to you by Bamboo hr, the complete HR software. Simplify HR with award winning solutions for everything from hired to retire with Bamboo HR.