Leading with Vulnerability: Sobriety, Strength, and Service with Jeff Boland

Speaker A: But what it really gave me was the same thing that using did years ago, and that was just that sense of belonging and sense of being a part of something and making me feel more comfortable. There were a lot of people like me. I'm grateful for it. You know, I've gone from the brink of death to, uh, thriving in the industry. And, uh, everything I have is because people within the industry were so patient. I had leadership in my life that met me exactly where I was at that time, but they saw not where I was at, but how I could be. And that's tough to see both those things simultaneously. Meeting my wife and working with her for a long time, that definitely helped tremendously as well. It's a big part of how I lead and coach to this day is, uh, that process of going through addiction into sobriety and then diving deeper into my own mental health and how that applies to what we do in the restaurants. But what it really gave me was the same thing that using did years ago, and that was just that sense of belonging and sense of being a part of something and making it.

Speaker B: Hello, friends, and welcome back to Hospitality Bites. I am your host, hospitality hustler, mompreneur, and the heart behind Hospitality Bites Media. As you know, this podcast is dedicated to highlighting individuals from all over this incredible industry with the intention of humanizing hospitality by diving to the very real struggles and successes within it. Today's guest has spent more than two decades leading teams, opening new concepts, and scaling brands with a heart and purpose. From transforming company cultures to guiding operators and creating people first environments where both guests and teams can thrive, his work embodies what hospitality is all about. Drawing from his journey through sobriety, fatherhood, and lifelong passion for restaurants, he's helping redefine what leadership looks like in our industry today. Please welcome to the show public speaker, aspiring writer and director of operations, Jeff Boland Sr.

Speaker A: Thank you so much. I'm, uh, very excited to be here with you today.

Speaker B: Thank you for joining me. So Jeff is another fun, cold connection that reached out to me and got a chance to speak and I definitely something I wanted to have on the show just we'll get into in a minute. So I really appreciate you actually reaching out to me. It was very kind.

Speaker A: Yeah, of course. I love the work you're doing.

Speaker B: Thank you. Let's kind of jump into it. Like I said, you've been in the industry nearly as long as I have, so what kind of drew you in to the food industry? What is your background?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So my experience getting into the restaurant industry was sort of by accident. But I tell everyone today everything I have in my life and everything in my life is thanks to the restaurant industry. So I, uh, met my wife working at my restaurant. She was the first person I met at orientation for my first job. My first child was born while we were still working at that same Chili's back in the day. So, yeah, everything I have is from that. So I ended up in the hospitality industry because, like I said, I fell into it by accident. I was working in construction and this was, uh, the early 2000s. And I had a, A, uh, problem that a lot of employers did not really appreciate. And that was I spent a lot of time just eating oxycontin and passing out in the trailer for construction. And so I lost that job due to that fact. Hm. So I called my mother and told her that I'd been fired for downsizing purposes. And I didn't know what to do and I needed a job. I was not in college at this point, and home from school and trying to figure out what to do. And she said, well, my friend's brother is opening the new Chili's that's opening down the road from us. You should just go down there and apply. So I went and applied at the Fairfield end off of a railroad in Stonecrest in Charlotte.

Speaker B: They were associated. It was like going to be like their hotel restaurant.

Speaker A: So the reason that it was there was because that's where the training team was staying and the restaurant was not open yet. They were just doing some final touches on the restaurant. So it was the closest hotel to that new Chili's.

Speaker B: Oh, okay.

Speaker A: So. And I love. I mean, I grew up on Ray Road and ended up working a lot of my career on railroad, so that was really cool. But I went and applied at Chili's, and opening a new restaurant, they would take just about anybody, even, uh, an addict in a mess like me. And so I got the job and got the opportunity and really fell in love with it right away. Industry, to me is the ultimate team sport. And growing up, uh, 100% supposed to be. Supposed to be in the right settings. It feels like the absolute best team and the best team sport there is. So I was lucky in that regard. And I got into it and really enjoyed the pace of it. But what it really gave me was the same thing that using did years ago. And that was just that sense of belonging and sense of being a part of something and making me feel more comfortable. There were a lot of people like me, so that, that Made things a lot easier as well. So I'm grateful for it. You know, I've gone from the brink of death to, uh, thriving in the industry. And everything I have is because people within the industry were so patient. And this is kind of the crux of everything to me was I had leadership in my life that met me exactly where I was at that time, but they saw not where I was at, but, uh, how. How I could be.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And that's tough to see both those things simultaneously. And I had some great people in my life that did. And then, of course, meeting my wife, working with her for a long time, that definitely helped tremendously as well. So it's a big part of my story. It's a big part of how I. How I lead and coach to this day is that process of going through addiction and into sobriety and then diving deeper into my own mental health and how that applies to what we do in the restaurant. So life changing, really.

Speaker B: It's. Well, so Chili's, I know, is one of those corporate companies that they take their training, like, quite seriously, Isn't that correct?

Speaker A: Yeah, they have the.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: They have a great job.

Speaker B: Yeah. They did a whole school of menu knowledge, ingredient knowledge, allergies, tables. Because the idea is that technically you could go work at any Chili's and it'd be the same expected set of service standards, right?

Speaker A: Yes, yes. As a matter of fact, when I was there, I don't know if it's still this way, but when I was there, they got, uh, their entire training program college accredited.

Speaker B: Oh, yes, I did know this.

Speaker A: Yeah. So if you went from, like, your day one training through the GM level, you got a certain amount of college credit hours that could transfer throughout the country. And they put a lot of effort into it. And Chili's, as a matter of fact, over the years, has become one of the brands that I'm watching the most, because over the last three years, the new CEO, Mr. Hockman, and what they've been doing, really been doing a fantastic job with. With bringing the brand back as a staple. But I'm interested in how they're doing it. You know what I mean?

Speaker B: It's funny, there is this company out in LA called Chain, and they take old chain restaurants or any chain restaurant, and they do, like, upscaled versions of that. Um, um, I can't think of the gentleman. He's an actor. He was on, uh, not Parks and Rec, but him and Mindy dated a long, long time ago, and they were a couple on the show. I Can't think of his name, but he's one of the backers of this. But I know they did a Chili's takeover or inspiration maybe this past year or the year before. And I know that was huge for like, at the Chili's Market because the, like you said, the new CEO, where did he come from? Anywho, all I knew that his idea was he wanted to give Chili's, not like a facelift, but, like, bring it back to what it was when it was brought out to begin with. Higher quality standard of food, the standard of service, their drink menu being not just like everything, fruit juice forward, like all like, you know, it was really more of like a cultural shift of, uh, bringing back to what it was, but also elevating it to where it can be today. Yeah, yeah. It's funny, people that like, they look down at like, chain restaurants or whatever. It is some misconception, but typically most chain restaurants have a very high standard that they expect everyone because they're rated across the board. So if your store is, uh, ranking low and there is like a bad year, you're like the first to go because that means that you're not following what they've put in place for you. Like, it's a roadmap to success. Realistically, that's what it was for anyone that works there. I think that's interesting that you started in a chain environment, especially, uh, being an addict, because. Because of the standards that are expected of you. How did you navigate pretending that you were not an addict?

Speaker A: Yeah, so I really thrived at the very beginning of it. And in my book that I'm writing, it refers to that for that very beginning time there. And I was so motivated by the response I received. And I've always been the kind of person where I need to be valued. Like, I need you to really see me as, as a great individual. So from the very beginning, I, I tried my best to hide my substance abuse and really focus on being this leader. I've always been a, uh, leader in sports and throughout school and even in, in coaching. I started doing a lot of coaching that I had a lot of fun with. I was a far better coach than I ever was a player. Learned that pretty quickly. But I had this desire to be great at what I was doing and I, that was grounded in this idea that I needed everyone m to like me and I needed to fit in. And so early on, it was like the first week of training at, ah, Chili's and all the corporate team is there kind of getting to the end where they're getting ready to leave. And the GM, Bill Appleyard, he's still the GM there to this day. Big old 6 foot 4 dude, just this glorious mustache, walks up and hands me an envelope, a white envelope. And I open it up and it's a handwritten invitation to be one of the trainers on the training team. And that like, blew me away. I. Somewhere in my mind, a group of people sat down at a table and they were like, uh, all right, we gotta figure out who the trainers are. And somebody said, what about Jeff? And people were like, oh yeah, he's doing awesome. Or at least that's how it went in my head.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And so that just meant a whole lot to me and motivated me tremendously to continue to move forward. And I learned very quickly that my focus was on people and training. Anyway, that's like what I really enjoyed. So having the opportunity to impact that really kept me going. Now another big part of it, you know, for all the good that restaurants did, it also sped up my addiction. Yeah, quite drastically. So I just had to find my people. And so, you know, whether it was, you know, the, the fry cook in the back and we were, you know, running bags out the back of the restaurant, uh, some of his clients, I would say his, his pharmaceutical clients.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Or some of the friends that we would get together, uh, the, the use of the OxyContin boom was tearing through every community in the country by this point and kind of gotten out of, you know, Kentucky and Virginia and kind of the coal mining areas and spread throughout the country by this point. And that was absolutely my, my drug of choice. But I wasn't too picky either. You were being around a group of people. Yeah, I mean, I was just. That's exactly. I was, I was an addict and uh, I was losing control very quickly. And like I said, I luckily had some people around me that saw the good. My wife has always said, like, no matter what you were doing, no matter what was happening, you were always a good person. She always knew I had a good heart. She says that all the time. And that's been helpful to me just because, you know, I look back at my life and so it's hard to kind of reconcile some of the things that you've done in the past that you have to work through. And that took some additional work over the years. But yeah, I mean, having the right leaders around me that were willing to, to love on me in the right way through all that and knew when to hold me Accountable knew when to kind of help lift me up. And I got very lucky in that regard. On LinkedIn a lot I'll throw some, I love throwing like shout outs to people throughout the years. And there's a few people in my life, uh, that, that really had a major impact when I was early on Ben Kolnos, I talked about him on, on LinkedIn a good bit. A lady named Betsy Appleyard, she was my area director at Chili's at that time. And, uh, she was like a 4 foot 9 little lady that was just tough as nails and really cared about me and made sure that I knew it. And so people like that kept me going for sure. And then of course, I can't give enough credit to my wife Ashley for everything that she's done over the last 20 years.

Speaker B: Well, it's funny, you can tell that, uh, anyone that understands addiction, or maybe your friend of someone that's an addict or a recovering addiction, it's an illness. It's a real chemical illness. And we wouldn't shame someone for having cancer or a chronic illness that, you know, makes them feel a certain way. Like, this is the same thing. So when you feed an addiction, you're feeding your illness and the shame and the stigma that goes around it is why it, uh, keeps going. Why people don't seek help is that they're afraid of saying, hey, I'm an addict, I need help. Because their world could come crashing down. You know, I'm sure that you felt like if I say something, I'll have no job, I'm not gonna have friends, I'm gonna have to go away, you know, all these things. And for anyone that does listen, like, it doesn't define who you are for the rest of your life. It's like a, it's a defining moment then, but does not define you forever. And it's like super important that people understand that because, I mean, I myself, like, I'm not an addict. I would never class myself as an alcoholic, but I had no respect or understanding of alcohol in my early 20s. Like, I'm very honest. I wish I had taken alcohol education. Like, I wish I had been exposed to responsible drinking. Understanding what it does to someone that's an anxious person or a depressive person, you know, but there, I didn't have that in my early teens, early 20s, entering the industry, it was a reward. I was given a reward. Something that like, literally made me feel sin. And it got to the point where, you know, I, unfortunately I got a DUI, you know, over nearly 12 years. Ago now. But I thought my life was over, right? Like, I was like, this is it. I'm going to lose everything. I've made a horrible mistake. But then, like, when the dust kind of settled and those that actually cared about me were still around, they weren't the ones like, oh, don't worry, it's just your first. Those are not my.

Speaker A: It was.

Speaker B: I mean, you and I just were like, oh, don't worry about it. Yeah, it's just one.

Speaker A: I'm like, but that's on the wrist. That's just.

Speaker B: That's one more than I needed because now I can't drive. How am I gonna get to work? Um, but those that are still in my life today very much were like, well, what are you gonna do about it now? So I up and moved to Chicago and like entered the restaurant scene and did all sorts of different stuff and like, experienced life and just kind of took myself out of a situation where I didn't know who I was anymore. And I think that's like, probably very similar to you. Is that addict that you look back at, like, how long have you been sober now? What is it?

Speaker A: 17?

Speaker B: Holy God, that's so long.

Speaker A: 17 years.

Speaker B: But every day.

Speaker A: I got sober right after my 22nd birthday.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: I started using that 11.

Speaker B: That's what you said.

Speaker A: And then, um, 11 to 22. So, you know, you're absolutely right too, about it being a disease. But I think the easier way for people to understand it, because that's always been said. But over the years, like, I've used that as well as a talking point. And what I've learned is unfortunately, that thought process seems to diminish the pain of, uh, the family around the addict. And I'll bring this up because I witnessed it after my recovery. My wife, her amazing, kind and generous youngest brother Tyler, he, uh, was 24. And my wife and I were driving to a food show. We were driving separately. Um, I was gonna stay an extra day for, for the actual trade show. Ashley was going to hit the beach for a little bit and drive home to get the kids. We made it an hour out of town and her mother called me. And her mother was very upset and she screams into the phone that Tyler is dead.

Speaker B: Oh.

Speaker A: And I pulled over and asked her to explain, like, what is going on? So the cops had just shown up at her house and they found Tyler dead in his home. And I had to, uh. And my mother in law said, don't tell Ashley until you get to the beach. Absolutely not. Like, we're Coming home. So I had pulled off the road, and I see Ashley drive by as I'm calling, and I said, hey, I need you to pull over. And I'm, um, sorry. Immediately she was like, uh, are the kids okay? I said, yeah, kids are fine. Is it your mom? Please just pull over. Is it my mom? Just pull over. And I get out of my car and I tell her that her youngest brother that she had helped take care of. And the first day that we started dating, I saw her in the parking lot of the Chili's going to the Harris Theater with her younger brother Tyler all those years ago. Uh, and I had to tell her that he had passed away and he died of a fentanyl overdose.

Speaker B: Oh, God.

Speaker A: And it was complete accident. Didn't know what he was, you know. You know, he. He knew what he was doing, but didn't know the extent. And the pain that that family has dealt with over the years of watching people struggle with this and then. And then saying it that way, it makes it hard for people to fully grasp. So what I will say is that think of it more like the. The. The substance is just the vessel to try to contain all of that. So it's a mental illness, no different than anxiety or depression or, or anything else that you might deal with. So that that pill might be the vessel that helps contain it in the same way that not getting out of the bed is the same vessel, or that self hatred, those, those constant negative self talk moments, that's the same vessel that contains all of that. It's a mental health challenge. And it's centered around this. This feeling of. Of being unwell or, or, um, not being complete. M. Not being whole. And so I know that for me, getting so AA100 got me sober. I say this a lot. AA got me sober. I would not be sober if I had not gone to Alcoholics Anonymous and worked the 12 steps. But to get whole, to become complete, I had to take another step. I, uh, had to do therapy and do some other things. And that's because what it's really grounded in is that the. The struggle with your mental health and being able to navigate how you feel about things and you take drugs out that helped you contain all that. You still have to learn how to

Speaker B: do things, have to function.

Speaker A: And so I needed to. To learn new skills. And so I go to. I go to therapy twice a month, once every other week. And I've navigated lots of different ways to. To receive therapy. And I think that's something that's really Important for people to understand is there's lots of ways to go about it. And I think that the more you can explore those things, the better off you are. I'd also suggest, you know, a lot of my family is in Al Anon.

Speaker B: I was gonna say that.

Speaker A: Like AA for the family member.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: You know, and it's just there's. I'm always. Because of aa, I'm always in that mindset where I have to look at my part in things first. And that's what it does. It makes you hyper accountable to everything in your life. And that makes me far more, like, empathetic for the family member at this stage, because I watched. I get to watch them today as they still navigate through those challenges with other people and see firsthand what it was like, you know, dealing with me in the throes of addiction. So it certainly changed my perspective a little bit. But it's. It's all mental health. It's all self care and it's all, you know, doing the right things to make sure you're in your best position possible.

Speaker B: I'm so sorry to hear about her little brother. I mean, as a mom, I mean, you guys are parents. It's like you do anything for your kids, anything for those that you love. You know, grief is not linear. Grief takes you all over. It hits you out of nowhere. It can be years, you know, it could be a day. And there's moments that just like, really cripple you. And that's where I think. Alan on. I'm so glad that you brought that up. It's huge for families to navigate, especially a loss to potentially to an addiction or whatever it may be to know that, like, you are so not alone. Like, the grief process and the support, you know, has to continue. And you need to find ways that can help you and your family. And prioritizing yourself also is really important. Um, especially navigating addiction. There's like, this level of guilt that you hold onto. Was it my fault? Could I have done something?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Be able to forgive yourself, you know, forgiving what happened in some capacity, giving yourself peace or finding peace, wherever that may be. Um, I love how honest and vulnerable you are because I think, like, as a father, your children are just going to benefit from knowing that their dad is honest. You clearly have unwavering love for your wife who's been. Who's been there for you from when she saw you at your worst to where you are now. And being in our industry, though, how did. How did you guys, as like a Couple remain kind of a unit. As you entered the sobriety of it all. Bringing someone into this world that you have to care for outside of yourself.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And find a way to be healthy. What was that like for you guys, if you don't mind me asking?

Speaker A: No, not at all. I love this question because there's some cool, there's some cool aspects to this. So the day, the last day that I used was March 30th of 2000. I went and picked up a white chip on April 1st. But, uh, March 3rd of 2008, throughout that first year, I think this was probably the hardest part. And Ashley might even be the better person to answer this question, although she'd probably answer it very sarcastically. She's a very strong person and I think that, like I said, she always saw the good in me, even when I was not really willing to show it. And so she was incredibly patient for me in that first year. It required a lot of, a lot of work on myself. So I was in at least one meeting a day for a very long time, uh, working with a sponsor and navigating through the steps and trying to build a community. And I think that's, you know, again, that's a big part of it. Whatever, whatever community you build is going to define who you are. So you mentioned like the shift drinks or like as the celebration, you know, if that's the culture that you're creating, like that's, that's what you're going to become. And so being surrounded by a bunch of people who were focused on sobriety and living one day at a time and learning how to put their faith in something greater than themselves, I was able to learn a lot of those things as well. So it required a lot of work for that first year. And I think that as the partner in the deal, it required a tremendous amount of patience and grace along the way. And I think that that's a hard part for a family member is you've gone all this time being second place or not considered it at all.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: In this person that you love, you have not been taken into account in their life at all. And it's been very selfish in how they've interacted with you. And then I'm going to turn around and say, hey, I need you to let them be selfish a little bit longer. If I'm my wife, I'm like, the hell are you talking about? Like, I would have been annoyed. So that is a frustrating position to be in. But, uh, you know, I think that trying to keep Perspective, you know, you're here, you're alive, you know, you've gone another day without using, uh, that. That makes all the difference in the world and how. I know it's all 100% worth it. You know, we're. Obviously, we're still together today. She's behind me. M. Those are our weddings right there. Yeah, that's my favorite photo right there. My absolute favorite photo in the world is that picture of her right before our wedding. No, that was taken by someone else. Um, but, uh, that was before our wedding. And then the other two next to that are from our wedding as well. Um, I mentioned March 30, 2008. On March 30 of 2009, my oldest daughter, Peyton, was born. And exactly a year after I had last used, my life had continuously gotten better and changed in a way that I would have never expected. And I needed that year to even be remotely capable again. I thank God for my wife. She's a natural born mother and she's just fantastic with our kids. And I watch her and learn from her constantly as a parent. But, uh, yeah, I mean, it was challenging. I think that she would definitely say, like, us working together would not have worked long term right there with you. It's a bad idea.

Speaker B: We decided to separate before we got married. My husband and I also were like, let's just put this away.

Speaker A: Very fair. Yeah. She went on to work at that same Chili's for a long time. I think she was there for like 17 years almost before she retired from the restaurant business. And as I moved into management, I did lots of other things. I sold knives door to door. I worked in insurance, I worked in healthcare. But everything always brought me back to restaurants because it was what I really loved and where I was supposed to be. So. But now you can't do it alone. I know that for sure. You need people.

Speaker B: Well, I think it's one. It's definitely one of those things. Like, how can you. How do you explain that? Like, the day you got sober a year later, you're, you know, the most perfect thing you've ever probably done in your life was born? Right? Like, I know it becomes a parent for the first time. It's just like, how. How did I create this little beautiful thing and. But you were able to be there present and whole and, like, whole for. For her and, like, what a gift. You know, she may not understand that obviously at that time, but as she gets older, like, wow, my dad was a hundred percent there. He had put away his own Selfishness and addiction. To be a full present parent, like, that's. That's huge. And, um, especially, I think, for those that are in the industry that feel like that they can't get sober or that you're, like, afraid of getting sober. Like, you said it, like, you felt instantly how much better did you feel about yourself? And, like, things were getting better of ripping the band aid off, of, like, addressing this one thing that, like, was probably for you, maybe a shameful thing or a hard pill to swallow. Like, no pun intended. But, like, how do you say out loud? Like, sorry, I can say dark.

Speaker A: I love. That's fantastic.

Speaker B: I am a dark person.

Speaker A: That was outstanding.

Speaker B: But true. It's true. Like, right? Like, anything that's listening, like, if you feel like you're trying to toe that line to sobriety, you can do in our industry. And there are a lot of resources for those that want to be sober in the industry now. Like, Ben's Friends is huge for sobriety. And like, you talk about being in aa, Ben's Friends addresses all of those things, but really tackles what it's like to be sober in our industry, which is such a hard place to be sober. Our days, our lives are very different than most nine to fives, which can be very triggering. We've all kind of experienced trauma at some point in the industry, which also can be a triggering potential, you know, reset for someone. Is that what kind of drew you to share your story in, like, a public space within hospitality about, like, your journey is hopefully one person hearing that you did it, and it's not easy, but you. You did, and you were successful.

Speaker A: You continue to be 1,000%, 100%. I want to be open and vulnerable and completely unapologetic about it. And, uh, I stand on this because there's been so many times over the years where I've had owners or leaders, very successful individuals who have encouraged me to separate the person from the professional and to separate my end. Like, I remember always hearing when we walk in this building, we leave all of our stuff at the door, and you can pick it back up when you leave. But when you come in here, it's all about the rest. And that's just. You can't do that, huh? Like, we're human. So I'm going to be overly human because I feel that if I saw someone like me early on and they were doing the right things, that maybe that would have encouraged me to do something differently. And at the end of the day, like, I just don't want anybody walking into the building thinking that they're alone in this. And I've seen the benefits of this. Uh, I was. I was running a restaurant called Juniper Grill in Charlotte for a short period of time, and short. It was like two and a half, three years.

Speaker B: Quite a stint.

Speaker A: Yeah. My. They are beautiful people. So that company has restaurants in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. This is the first restaurant outside of that market. Beautiful people, amazing culture, cultural tools that I still use to this day came from that company. But I was also very, very open about the fact that I was in recovery. And I make that known very early because I want to get the whole let's go out and have a drink out of the way, right? I want to let people know very early on that, um, I'm sober. I've been sober a long time. And I'll go as far as saying, like, you don't want me drink. If you see me with a drink in my hand, go ahead and fire me. Don't wait for it to go down.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: Just go ahead and fire me then. So I'm very open about this. And I end up with this bartender on my team, this fantastic guy. Name's Brad. I love him to death. And when I first met him, I thought, this guy's gonna be, uh, a problem. Like, he was very fidgety and kind of old. Uh, we called him Brad because he was like the living embodiment of what Adderall looked like. And. But I. There was something there. And he was such an incredible human. And just like so many addicts, you know, there's something off, but he's just such an incredible human being. And there came a time where he. He struggled. He m. Met. He had to call out for a shift. And then he came and asked me to sit down with him and kind of talk to me for a little bit because he had gotten so drunk that he had, like, locked his girlfriend, uh, out of the apartment, was like, passed out on the ground, and all this crazy stuff was going on. And so he started asking me questions. And we talked through it for a little while. And, uh, a year later, he. He mentioned. He told me that it was his one year anniversary or one year sobriety date. And I remembered my one year because that was when my daughter was born. I'm sitting in a room. A men's meeting on April 1, and I had just taken my wife and my new daughter home, and I went to go get this one year chip, and I'm in a men's meeting in Charlotte, and this guy Richard, who knew my Father, My father was his mentor in sales back in the day. He's talking in the meeting and then he says, I know a guy that's got one year tonight, like to point to me to talk. And I'm sitting there and I was like, I'm um, really sorry, I'm just, I just had my first daughter last night and the room just explodes, I'm sure. And like I could feel the cheers like in my chest, like the room was just shaking and you know, so my new daughter, one year, this guy walks up to me at the end of the meeting, I'd never seen him since. And he said that he had this one year chip on his keychain that came from Akron, Ohio where AA started. It's it like Bill W. Held this coin was kind of how he explained it to me. And he said, you know, I was, he was given to me and I was told to give it to somebody along the way on their one year anniversary. And so he took it off his key ring and he gave it to me and he said, you know, just make sure you give it to somebody in the future. And then there's Brad standing in front of me in the restaurant and I uh, pull my keys out and I tell him the whole story and take the, the key, the coin off and give it to him. And I'd held onto that for 14 years at that point and gave it to Brad. And it took 14 years to find that individual or to make that one story make that much sense.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: But if you stick with it, you get these just cool ass moments that like, you know, kind of make my life story more valuable. Like until I started sharing it, it was just my pain and my experience. And uh, when I started sharing had real meaning and real purpose and real value because it was there for other people, it wasn't there for me and I was just again the vessel for it in that moment. And there's uh, so many people like that and I want people to be more open. And I believe that in the restaurant industry in particular, there are so many people who do genuinely care. And we talked about at the beginning how they should be like the ultimate team sport or should be a great team. So many people see the restaurant industry as very toxic and I believe that there are lots of places that are. Yes, I think there are so many places and so many people that are so beautiful and caring and you know, Kimberly Flir, Kristen Marvin and you know, uh, yeah, and Billy Schaefer and there's so many people, Simon Zaturka, like, these people are so caring and want the industry to be at its best yourself. It's just we got to get as loud as the negative side.

Speaker B: Right. And this is what's so interesting. Like, you talked about Kristen and talked about Kimberly, and Kimberly's one of our ambassadors and Kristin sits on the board at Chow and I'm an honorary board member at Chao. And like, you're working towards your ambassadorship. They think that these are like siloed individuals, those that are loud, like, we don't wanna talk about the bad stuff. We don't talk about the bad stuff. Like, there's major restaurant associations that don't wanna talk about the bad stuff because they feel like it will unlift the veil of negativity that they all know exists, but they don't wanna talk about it. Cause they don't think the industry will succeed, which is the complete opposite. Because it's not siloed individuals that are saying this. It's thousands upon thousands of people around the world that love the industry more than they know it's doing. Like I met well, for you, your family is because you walked into a Chili's.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: I have my husband and my two beautiful children. Because I walked into the Bergop after I got my dui and when I think about, like, man, had I not got my dui, maybe I would never have my kids. It's, you know, it's, um. And that's really hard for me to swallow. It's like, man, I had to make a really big mistake to meet the love of my life, to have my beautiful family. It makes me emotional because it's like, I wish people would just understand that we don't. We're not bashing it. We're just highlighting that our industry is such a wonderful place.

Speaker A: Humanizing it.

Speaker B: Yeah, it just has some, like, cleaning up to do. Because all these other industries provide free mental health services. They offer gym memberships. They offer you time PTO to take care of yourself. Our industry just can't do some of those things because they don't know how to do it. So we're trying to give you options and solutions and have people that are vulnerable to share their stories so we can bring a younger generation in that feel like it's a safe place to work. That's what we're doing. We're not bashing the don't come work here. It's like the complete opposite of that. So I. I think it's so lovely because you also are a philanthropist and I know that you help like you're talking about your children and your wife. And you also sit on the board of a children's pediatric pediatric cancer, uh, unit in Charlotte. And why is that so important to you, too? That kind of meld your love for helping outside of just the restaurant industry?

Speaker A: Yeah, I appreciate it, and ISF means a lot to me, and I'll get into that. You know, truthfully, a lot of it is very selfish. Like, for me to stay well, I have to help other people. For me to stay sober, I have to give it away. So that's a major part of it. I think there's a lot of motivations. That's the main one. You know, I want my legacy or how people remember me to be the way that I want to be remembered. I, uh, want my kids to have that vision as well, and I want them to feel inspired in a way to do those same things. And I see that in my kids, the level of empathy that they have for others and how they take care of each other and take care of their friends. And, uh, I just. I'm grateful for that, you know. The Isabella Santos foundation is a pediatric cancer and rare tumor foundation founded here in Charlotte. Aaron Santos, her daughter Isabella, uh, passed away years ago, and she's done an incredible job of building this into a huge organization that does tremendous work. Over $15 million has been raised for the Levine Children's Hospital. And now Levine is a premier children's hospital, uh, in the same realm as, you know, Atlanta and Houston, uh, and St. Jude's and they do a lot of incredible work. One of the amazing things that they're focused on right now is fertility preservation. Because imagine as we talked about this, imagine as a. As a parent, your little daughter ends up with some form of pediatric cancer, and you have to talk about treatment, and then immediately they start asking you if you want to freeze a rex. And you've never thought about she's a baby. Reproduction for your child. And now you're having to consider their entire future. And on top of that, it's. That's not an insurance coverage situation that is 100% out of pocket. And so providing the ability for families to do this through that organization is one of the issues facing families dealing with cancer that I never even considered. And I mean, as a. As a man, let alone just my understanding of cancer and its treatment. And there's a lot that is improved or we can be a lot more targeted with cancer treatment, for sure, but there's so many things that I've never had to consider. And so the first time I got connected with them, um, I was working with Juniper, and our coffee provider was holding a golf tournament and asked if we would donate. And I said, well, I'd love to provide all the food to the entire event if we could. That'd be amazing. Like, it's going to save a bunch of money. So we provided the food, and they let us play in the tournament. And when I saw Aaron, she said, is there anything else that we can do for you? And I said, well, I'd love a board seat. Just threw it out there. And it, uh, took a couple of years, but, uh, a couple of years later, you know, I. I ended up getting the board seat. And so we've been able to do some stuff with them, uh, with Max, uh, hospitality group, all of our Max feed shops. We donate 100% of the profits from our Hush puppies go directly to isf. So we pay. We cut a check every quarter for a few grand and do everything we can to support them however possible. I've been lucky in that regard. As soon as I joined max, I was a board member at that time, and they allowed me to merge those two things together.

Speaker B: It's beautiful.

Speaker A: And that meant a lot to me. So, you know, my. My focus is absolutely on. I just want to help people. I've. I've been very lucky throughout my life and to have people in my corner. So I. I want to be that person for. For somebody else. And so, um, we've done that through isf. We've done that through. Through mental health support or doing what we can. You know, I think you brought up a great point that the industry as a whole is lagging behind when it comes to. To benefits. I've worked for some places that had some amazing. Like, there's one place I've worked that had a $100 health and wellness reimbursement on a monthly basis. And that could be for anything from a gym membership to therapy to mani. Uh, pedi. Could have been anything.

Speaker B: Take care of yourself.

Speaker A: Just take care of yourself. And that was great. And through my experience with therapy, I learned the difference you can go through based on your. Your insurance coverage. So I've been going to the same place for a good while now, and when I was first going, it was, you know, 20, 30 bucks a visit. That's manageable. Then this past year, with the insurance change that we had, they said, your first three visits are free, but after that it'll be a hundred bucks a visit. I said, man, like, I Can't do that twice a month on our budget. I can't imagine what anybody else can. And they mentioned, well, we have these interns. And interns are highly educated, well trained students who are in the final year of their education. And in part of that they have to do like 300 hours of live one on one talk therapy sessions. And those are guided by a, uh, professional that oversees them under their license. That's free. Thank God, they're free. So I started seeing an intern to uh, get the experience of it. And then working with that company, Walgreen Counseling here in Charlotte. We are now able to provide the opportunity for free talk therapy to everyone on our team. All 550 of our employees have the ability to call, say, I'm with Max, I need an intern. And they can do live one on one. They can do telehealth and it is for free. They've told me that some people have, obviously they can't tell me too much, but they've mentioned that it's been working and they even went so far as to say, you have someone on your team who, their challenges exceeded the level that we would give to an intern.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: So we took them on pro bono anyway. So just by, by asking, just by developing relationships, you can create these resources for people. And I think that the work that you do.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker A: Ciao. Burnt Chef project. You mentioned Ben's Friends. I'm a big fan of Steve Palmer. He's got a bunch of properties here in town. I mean, all of you are doing things that more people need to know about. Because I don't know anybody that knew Chow or that knew the Burnt Chef project or Giving Kitchen or Ben's friends.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: For years. And I just, I mean I just, I've been going through the process with Chow, been talking with people at Max. There's nobody that knows about it at Max. And so I'm looking forward to finishing that process so I can help kind of shine that more in Charlotte because it's a growing restaurant community and it needs more support.

Speaker B: I mean it's a major restaurant hub now. I, when we were living in Charleston during the pandemic, we got bumped out because people moved there. Like this is not the quaint little Charleston that we found from Chicago. And Charlotte was the same way, same thing. We had friends, the new, um, England area down to Charlotte and then they said it extended exploded during the pandemic. And so you got people that are opening real great restaurants. I mean they're filming Top Chef, aren't they doing it in Charlotte right now? M. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, there's people with real money, real industry professionals that are there opening these establishments. And the demand to give great service is a very taxing experience for some people. So why don't we just give them the help that they deserve so they can give you the same treatment back? You know what I mean? Like, it's called hospitality for a reason. Doesn't mean we have to take stuff on the chin all the time. We should be able to get the same experience from our leaders as well that we're giving to our guests. Uh, so I think it's wonderful that you are taking your own life experiences, melding it into the industry. The love for your wife is undeniable in your family. So, like, I hope that if she's listening, I don't know if she's in the background or she listens to the episode like that.

Speaker A: I hope she does. It'll give me some points.

Speaker B: Yeah, the proof, the proof of like a stable partner, though, like, it's so crucial. Um, and I hope that for a lot of people that they find that one person that can kind of be their guiding light through the ups and downs, uh, because life is so fleeting. And my condolences to her family, the loss of her brother and that. I'm sure he'd be incredibly proud though, that his brother in law is sharing his story of, like, something that was completely unintentional, how it took his life tragically. Here in Ocean City, there's been several young men and women that have lost life to fentanyl. It's no joke. It's. It's readily accessible to a lot of people and it's. Our industry is overtaken by a lot of that. So, like, I hope people can just have these open conversations, talk about it. Yeah, make them feel comfortable. Like, hey, it's something going on. We got resources for you. So speaking of that, what is it that you are working on that you can share with people that are listening in your own personal life and your professional life?

Speaker A: Yeah. So there's two things that are really passion projects of mine that I've been working on. Like I mentioned, I do some public speaking and coaching, and the speaking is a lot about my experience as a leader. I feel like the answer to a lot of, uh, the people issues that are not being addressed in restaurants lies in education and leadership. So I kind of broke down my focus into this three part process that I think is having, uh, a tremendous Impact. And there's uh, an audit structure that helps you focus on your operations. A three part audit system that I put together that you can really personalize to any operation to make it work. And then have create the systems around how to implement those so that they create change. I've got a culture playbook that is really focused on how to create and sustain effective culture that allows every individual to be successful and to feel like they're thriving in the environment. And I've got a good buddy of mine, he, uh, his name is Billy Schaefer and he works with the McClasky Excellence Institute. And we had a conversation the other day that just blew me away. He has this new way of looking at culture because everyone talks about culture, right. And I'm stealing this from him. I told him I was and we're going to work on it together. But he is a like really deep, heady nerd and he's wicked smart. And so he started looking at culture as uh, like from an anthropological perspective. What does culture actually mean? What is it grounded in language, rituals, values, norms and symbols? So the language is like, are, uh, do we, what do we talk about as a culture? Do we say things like integrity or service, hospitality, respect. I use love, dignity and respect a ton. Rituals line up every day.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: You know those little things, values. Like what do we believe in? Is, uh, quality. Something that's a value of ours. So if you break down culture into language, rituals, values, norms and symbols, then it starts to actually make sense. Now we're really creating a foundation for people to work off of.

Speaker B: It's like a foundation building exercise. Like can your, can your business answer those questions? I bet a lot of people can't answer that.

Speaker A: Yes. And it was just, it clicked to me because I have these pieces. Uh, there's a, my very first article in full in Full Service Restaurant magazine I did earlier this year. And it was about culture and kind of recreating that third place that people used to always talk about, you know, work, home and then that third plate.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And it used to always be like the neighborhood bar, the restaurant. Let's get back to that. And so really focusing on culture. The third and I think the most impactful one is the lds, the leadership development system that, that I put together. And this goes beyond teaching your specs and standards in your company. Everyone has those and that's great. And those, those need to be known and they need to be drilled in so you are 100% understand and retain what the company expectations are. Because at the end of the day, yes, it is a business. It is about being profitable and successful. I can't employ people and impact people's lives if we're not making money.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: So I do want to do that. But I've never once in my life been taught how to fire someone or how to document someone and have that conversation. I've never been taught how to approach someone when they appear to be drunk or high at work. Mhm. And a lot of people think, I can't, I'm going to get sued or something. Absolutely not. There's nothing wrong with walking up to somebody and saying, hey, I'm concerned. This is what it looks like to me.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: I'm worried about you because I care.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: There's nothing wrong with that and teaching people how to communicate effectively. I think we just expect people because they're hired as managers or have management experience that they know how to use their voice.

Speaker B: They do. I'm so glad you said that. There is such a misconception of those that are called leaders and then those that actually lead. So if you are a leader, that's a title you've been given. You are a manager, you're a decision maker, blah blah, blah. But can you sit in a room with someone that you employ and have a difficult conversation? That's what a real leader is. Because it's not yelling at someone or berating them or like, here's your write up for being late. Like, that's not. That's like the technical crap that we all are.

Speaker A: Zero impact.

Speaker B: Yeah. Like it doesn't do anything. But are you able to have a tough conversation that has some sort of resolution at the end of it too? I think that's so important that you're addressing the stark difference between being a leader and then those that actually lead and doing it effectively.

Speaker A: And I feel qualified because I sucked at this for so long.

Speaker B: Mhm. Me too.

Speaker A: I was terror. Like I said I needed people to like me, so I used to get called the nice manager all the time. Like it was a bad thing. Like, uh, you're just the nice manager. I wear that as a badge. Honor today. Like, I'm proud of being the nice manager, but it's because I've learned how to apply it.

Speaker B: Right. You're not.

Speaker A: I don't have to be a jerk.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Yeah. I don't have to be a jerk to. To get my point across. As a matter of fact, I think I can have more sustainable results by communicating the way that I do. But I think the issue, there's a guy, his name's Vin Zhang. He's somebody I follow a lot. I think he's amazing. He's uh, got this beautiful Australian, uh, accent and he's just a beautiful speaker. He's a former magician who used his performing experience to become a language and communication expert. Now he teaches people how to use his voice. And something that he said recently struck me. You know, people look at your voice as a tool. You know, well, your voice isn't a tool. I mean, a hammer is a tool. What do you do? You use a hammer. You know, if you got a screwdriver, you use a screwdriver. Your voice is an instrument. What do you do with an instrument? If you have a piano, you don't use it, you play it. You have a guitar, you don't use it, you play it.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: So the reason that we are uncomfortable using our voice is because we've been taught that we have to stay in this, in this box. So he'll teach you to like, play with your voice. And so you'll start off really low and then you come up and you'll be really high and then you go down really. And like he does all these different techniques to get you to feel really awkward and uncomfortable.

Speaker B: It's so important to feel uncomfortable because the more you feel uncomfortable, like, why is it, it makes you think, why is it making me feel that way? Why do like, like using your voice really high? Like, but as like a parent, I say and do weird things all the time. But I've always been like kind of a weird person and I've always kind of been uncomfortable. Which is why I, uh, think I have no problem hosting uncomfortable conversations. Because that's just naturally who I am. Like, I think it's interesting to learn about people in like their darkest moments, but also be able to feel uncomfortable in that moment too. But like, what are we gonna get out of it? Like, I think that's so important. I love that you said that. Cause I think more people need to feel uncomfortable. Like people are embarrassed to do like trust exercises at work. They're embarrassed to do like questionnaires. Cause they don't want to hear the truth. Don't you want to grow and learn and like make your business better? So put together a questionnaire of like silly questions, get to know your teams. Uh, like those things are so important for team building. I'll go back to the very beginning, so it should be a team sport. Like every practice is not comfortable for most great Athletes, like, let's not forget, not even Tom Brady was wanted at one point. So. And he's the greatest of all time, quote, unquote. I'm always air quotes. Anyone's listening to this? My husband's Tom Brady fan. I am not. Oh, you are, too. Okay.

Speaker A: No, hey, uh, okay. Uh, you gotta respect the game.

Speaker B: Okay?

Speaker A: I'll say that.

Speaker B: Right? So, like, he was uncomfortable, no one wanted him, and then he blew you out of the water. So, like, there's people on your team that you may not want or you don't know a lot about them because you haven't taken the time to learn. So be uncomfortable. The voice exercise, I think, is incredible. I love that so much. Like, my heart's, like, racing. I just got so excited that you said that because I'm also. You're a man, and I think it's hard for men sometimes to say vulnerable things. And a lot of our leaders in hospitality are men. Like, they need. Need to kind of be more aware of, like, what's going on around you. And asking uncomfortable questions or getting to be emotional or being vulnerable is so important to, like, let your guard down. So. So I. I really commend you for that. And I know you said you were writing a book. Do you want to share a little bit about that? Cause I know you're not quite ready yet, what people can expect from it and why it's important to you.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, I'm super excited about it. I currently have it entitled as an Addict's Guide to Leadership in Life. And I'm, um. I'm really excited about it, and I. It's just been fun, like, just going through the process, so taking the time to actually write it rather than employing or using a service, and is going to make it such a longer process. And I feel like I'm just going to gain so much more from it by doing it that way. And so what this is, is, um. I, uh, describe it as part autobiography, part leadership book. So taking my addiction and journey into sobriety and fatherhood and, you know, building a family and being in the industry to inform leadership lessons along the way. So every chapter discusses a certain point in my, uh, battle with addiction and ties in a leadership, uh, lesson. So in the very first chapter that is very much about identifying the signs and the basic things that you can do to help that individual. I want people to feel more prepared to navigate those conversations. You said something a minute ago that struck a chord with me and a friend of mine on, um, LinkedIn, Kyle Bowen. Just Posted something similar yesterday. And he said, you hired somebody that was an absolute beast. Why 90 days later are they a bad fit? And I feel like we're so quick to do that in this industry, not stopping for a second to think, what part did we play in the decline?

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: You know, and so I think a lot of that has to do with us not being prepared to navigate human interactions in a way that, that is impactful. Now I do also understand that at the end of the day, like, you do need systems to follow M. Because you can't. If you're managing the individual, you're going to be grounded in emotion a lot.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So you do have to be able to manage the standard, but you're still dealing with human. So even as I'm managing, I have to be able to work with people along the way.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I can't do that if I'm not meeting you and taking time to invest. If you're not auditing every relationship in your business, if you're a manager in a restaurant right now and you're not actively doing one on ones and you're not auditing every single relationship in your restaurant, you're failing.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And that's just. I'm not typically this harsh about things, but this is one thing that I will stand on 100%. If you are not auditing those relationships at all times, you're failing at your job because Jeff at 22 was a completely different person than Jeff at 26.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And you need to be able to navigate those differences for your people because that is your job.

Speaker B: You said in the very beginning that you were met where you were at by those that led you at Chili's.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And there's a reason why. It's because they were trained to do that. They were trained by a corporation that had set standards, understandings, you said, accreditations, things that really matter for a lot of businesses outside of the restaurant industry. Like. But they take outside influences to create these programs. There's nothing wrong with recognizing businesses that have been doing it right or doing a certain way and molding it into our industry. I think your perception of taking your experiences and um, addiction and also being a man at 20, being a man at 30 is very different. And how do you address certain things? How can you talk to your people? I think that your book will resonate with a lot of people. I think that you're putting the word addiction on it right away. Makes you like, whoa, this is going to be cool. Because people like, they're Interested in wanting to know what does an addict think? How did they navigate it to be successful? So what where can those that are interested in learning more about you and what you're working on, where should they go? How do they get in contact?

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, I appreciate that. So my email for my company, Jeffrey, that's J E F F R E y@, uh, boland h s dot com, that's Boland hospitality Solutions. As well as you can find me on LinkedIn. Jeffrey Boland Sr. On LinkedIn. And I'm on there a good bit. Pretty active. You can DM me on there any time. And that's how I connect with most people just like yourself. So, yeah, I mean, I just want to be helpful. M impactful.

Speaker B: Well, you definitely are. Uh, and like I, uh, said, your kids are gonna be so proud of you. They might be embarrassed you at sometimes, but they'll be really proud of you as they get older that they can go and lean on someone like you and your wife and all that you're doing. Um, please be sure to check out Jeffrey like I said on. I said Jeffrey. Sorry, I wanted to call you Jeff. You said Jeffrey again. You confused me.

Speaker A: Yeah, check him out. I confuse everybody. It's fine.

Speaker B: Check them out on LinkedIn. Please be sure to listen to all things on Walk and Talk Media, where they host their amazing content, including today's episode of hospitality bites. Visit hostility bites.com to learn more about me, my documentary, and all things that I'm working on. And as I always say, please be kind to yourself and be kind to one another. Thank you, Jeff, for joining me, and I look forward to chatting soon. Thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you.