Victoria Rennoldson | Don't Let AI Be Your Voice: Keeping Human Connection at the Heart of Leadership

Speaker A: But then knowing how to build a trust, knowing how to bridge and um, create those connection connections, um, even with people that you're not necessarily seeing day to day, that is going to be the real skill going forward. And for those people who can do that, well, this is what's going to make them stand out. And this is what I call your human differentiating factor.

Speaker B: Welcome to Helping Organizations Thrive. Uh, today I have the pleasure of Victoria Reynoldson. Uh, good afternoon to you Victoria.

Speaker A: Hi there Julian. Really great to be joining you here today.

Speaker B: Yeah, good to have you on. I'm just going to tell the audience a little bit about you. Uh, so you're an award winning cultural, uh, intelligence and communication coach, uh, and the founder and CEO of Culture Cuppa. And uh, your mission is to connect people through the power of communication and cultural intelligence, uh, helping leaders and teams work exceptionally well together and build strong connections with customers and partners across borders. And with that we're going to be exploring today, uh, about human leadership. We're in that world of AI which is growing exponentially. But how do we connect, how do we communicate and how do we involve the whole cross cultural piece and keeping the human part of the leadership, uh, within the AI world that we're developing into. So uh, we're going to have a conversation about that. But before we get into that, uh, Victoria, I started to ask you, what do you love about what you do?

Speaker A: I mean everything that I love about what I do is really comes down to some of the things that you've already talked about in my, in your very kind intro. So for me this is all about people. I, I love understanding what makes people tick, what goes on below the surface, but also um, how people come together. So there's themes around, uh, communication, having great conversations, um, being able to connect really well together and understanding each other's cultures and what we do with that are very much about what I love. So whether I'm working with individuals, teams, large organizations, whatever level that's at, those ah, are the themes that uh, I'm often working on and is making me spark with happiness.

Speaker B: And when did you realize that you sparked with happiness in this sort of work? What, what was the moment, what was the time, what was the job or a role? What was it?

Speaker A: So I think you know, these, these various dynamics have always been present in my life in one form or another, um, throughout my life, throughout my sort of personal life and professional life. So just before we went live, um, we were just talking then about languages and um, you know, languages were very Much part of my path, I, um, studied Lang and lived and worked, um, in Germany and Russia. I, from there sort of got very interested in kind of understanding how people communicate and recognize that, you know, it doesn't matter. It's not really about the words. Yes, it is the words you're using, but sometimes it's about how you're saying things and knowing how to express it. Well, from there I sort of took my first path. Um, my first kind of career was in brand marketing. Um, um, I worked in initially, um, healthcare and then in the food and FMCG industries and I was working in global teams. And I got really, um, interested in this time. Yes, in marketing, in communication from communication to consumer point of view. But also I got very, very interested in how teams communicate and what happens when you have these large, um, often sort of multicultural teams, international teams, across different functions departments, but also across different countries. And I was somebody who was sort of leading teams across Europe, but also interacting a lot with the US and with Asia. And um, got very interested in how communication was working, but also how communication wasn't working at times. And um, I sort of recognized putting sort of my own personal experiences, uh, together with what I was, um, seeing, observing, hearing that really what was kind of going on here was cultural. And it was those, that insight, um, those seeds of ideas, the communication, the culture that came together. And um, that's when I sort of set up this business and started doing this work, um, in this space, uh, 11 years ago, almost exactly to the day. Um, so my anniversary is tomorrow.

Speaker B: Congratulations on that. That's amazing. Uh, we do it for 11 years. You know, we know a lot of businesses, um, you know, sort of don't do very well beyond the 12, 18 months, you know, to get to 11 years and still be doing it and still being successful with it, that's great. But I'm sure as, as all businesses, there's been some highs, lows and some challenges along the way and uh, hopefully a lot of learnings as well as you've, uh, mapped things out.

Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah. I mean, look, you know, the business that I'm running today is not the business I was running 11 years ago, and neither should it be. And I think you're, uh, absolute right. There are a lot of highs and lows, um, along that path. Um, but also because of the course, the world has changed significantly from the time when I set up this business 11 years ago. And there are many different things that have come out of my business, including the book that I wrote and published Last year, um, in my 10th year on business.

Speaker B: Yeah. And talking about the business has evolved in the 10, 11 years. It's evolving even faster now. So in the last 18 months I feel a real shift and just, just focus a little bit on leadership. And we talk a lot about, uh, human leadership and talk a lot about, you know, keeping the human, uh, within the leadership sort of aspect of things. From your perspective, what does human leadership really mean to you?

Speaker A: M. I mean, I think this is a topic which is incredibly important at, uh, this moment in time. And if you look at, um, some of the research that I did when I was writing my book, you know, you can see that there is, even before have AI hitting concerns, worries about people skills, about people not having the right skill sets to really be able to work well together. And I suppose that's been particularly prominent as a theme since COVID times when there has been clearly more remote working, more um, distant working people working in hybrid ways and having to really work very hard at how do they connect together. And this is a topic I've been thinking about for a very long time. What I have kind of really noticed is that clearly there's been real focus in the Last sort of 12, 18 months around this idea of upskilling in AI skilling in the tech skill area. But the reality is that these other skills, which perhaps in the past might have been called soft skills or, you know, considered nice to have optional. You know, maybe you might want to go do some training around your, um, impact or your communication. These are no longer adjunct skills. They're not skills to just sit on the side. In fact, they're very core to our success, particularly in a world where AI can enable so much for us, um, in a world where AI can make things so much more efficient, really kind of where we then need to refocus on as individuals, as humans, as teams, is developing those human leadership skills that we know how to connect with each other, have really good conversations, being able to create, um, change and impact through the way that we're working together. So coming precisely back to your question, you know, what is human leadership? Human leadership for me at its essence is really showing up as a human being, being kind of real, um, in the way that you are showing up, connecting with people, having those conversations, but then knowing how to build a trust, knowing how to bridge and create those connection, connections, um, even with people that you're not necessarily seeing day to day. That is going to be the real skill going forward. And for those people who can do that, well this is what's going to make them stand out. And this is what I call your human differentiating factor. So for people who have that fear about, you know, will AI take parts in my role, even make my role redundant, if you're focusing in on these human leadership skills, then there is no fear there. It should be really about actually there is so much more value that I can bring, so much more value that I can add.

Speaker B: And do you think, you know, the human leadership aspects were uh, you know, how to connect with people, how to build trust, how to engage? Do you think there's always been an issue in leadership? Because obviously a lot of people get promoted in the context of their technical skills or the sort of zone of genius in the sense of the organization. It's not always. And then they get given five people to manage, ah, or managerial. But in terms of leading people, um, they've not got the skills there and they're assumed just because they're really good at the technical things, they'll be go as a leader, which is obviously not the case. Um, do you think that that's always been an issue and do you think things like, you know, post Covid hybrid working, uh, remote working AI has just made it more difficult or just highlighted it, uh, to everybody?

Speaker A: I think, yeah. I mean that's the real kind of question here, isn't it? And I think it has always been a challenge. I think you're right. I definitely see that pattern among um, people that I work with who are fantastic, what they do, um, competently, you know, amazing within their expertise, their knowledge area, their perhaps their technical kind of skills as well. But they're not necessarily equipped for that leadership role. And I think what, that's kind of a dangerous assumption just because somebody is expert, that they're good at that without the right level of support behind them. I think what's probably been happening in the last few years is a kind of an acceleration and uh, amplification of the issue. So what I often talk about is that uh, people see communication as in reality what is um, collaboration tools. So there's a lot of information, there are a lot of updates across a plethora of different tools. Um, so whatever people are using as their main kind of interaction planning, communication tool and they see that as the communication that they are, you know, telling people things. But it's just a lot of broadcast, it's a lot of noise, it's a lot of information. And so what I think is that yes, that issue has been present for a long time, but it's, it's become intensifying because of the current trends and um, because of what's happening right now. So it really does require a leader or aspiring leader for those listening to this podcast to sort of really be quite intentional, ah, about their actions to create that sense of connection and trust in a way that perhaps happened more easily and naturally. Perhaps when teams were um, generally located in one location or were sort of, it was easier to kind of get together uh, on a regular basis. I think, you know, this is relevant for um, some of the teams and organizations when they're working globally. And that's often my type of work. You know, they're working based across multiple countries. But even for those sort of individuals and teams who are based in one location, there's still a lot of diversity that goes on within that environment. And that's quite important as well to understand how do you build trust and connect. And that's where part of my work, uh, cultural intelligence also comes in.

Speaker B: Because at the moment it, if you look at it and I'm not a leader in an organization anymore, I work with a lot of leaders and organizations, um, I'm aware of what they have because you think about, you should talk about communication channels, that there's a whole plethora of stuff going on out there. You know, whether it's from, you know, email is good but then you've got things like Slack, WhatsApp, text phone calls, zoom calls, uh, in person, um, and that's just to name a few things. There's probably far more other stuff going on out there and, and then you have, you layer that with different types of cultures. If you're in a global role, actually in the UK you can have different cultures as well. So kicking off there and then you have things like are ah, people adhd, autistic, you know, all the sort of neurodiversity type things and when you lay all that you can get, you're quite overwhelmed. You know, where do I start? How do, how do I become an effective leader and communicate in an effective way that gets my point across but also um, ensures that the messages I talk to my team are powerful and have an impact. But also I hear as well there's a two way process going on there. Um, so just be helpful just to outline perhaps some how to help the overwhelm. Somebody's listening right now is thinking, yeah, I feel a bit overwhelmed with all this. And we know communication is absolutely vital in an organization. Everybody knows that. Um, and it's the one thing that Gets um, almost missed and broken down and issues arise because of communication issues. Um, so where do we start, Victoria? Your or your expertise also from what you've written a book about this in terms of where you'll pull this together?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So I think, you know, there is a lot. And I kind of really recognize this. Like it is overwhelming. There is a lot that happens almost every single minute of every day coming in, in all the directions. So the question is, is how do you get that clarity to really think about how do you build the trust and the connection with teams? And I, I think what I will talk to here is, you know, one particular aspect of my work is cultural intelligence, which, which is in the book. Um, cultural intelligence is approach which is um, relevant for the. In a global context but also in very diverse um, environments and m. Diverse teams. And what it's really about at its core is recognizing that we all have cultural influences, influences and dynamics in the way that we show up. So in the way we interact with people, the way we communicate in what we say, but also how we say it with our body language or tone of voice. And um, that is shaped by a number of different factors. Um, where we grew up, um, Our um, education, our uh, heritage, maybe where you've worked around the world or who you've worked with, which kinds of companies. And I think that is something that's often invisible to us. We, we kind of. I can see sort of organizations kind of assume that organizational culture is. Is king, effectively that that kind of ultimately um, kind of dominates the situation. But actually each individual shows up in their own, own way. And so it's very difficult to see how we do that. And so in my work There is a 10 Ah, sets of what's called behavioral preferences to define and talk about those differences in cultural styles. In talking about how um, you uh, communicate how you respond um, to different types of situations, respond to power, um, whether you are more collective or more individual in your style. And that's very helpful because that's a really great starting point for people to um, maybe even listeners to understand, you know, how am I showing up in my culture? What is it that I'm doing? And that for me is very much the starting point. The next part of this, which is incredibly important is then applying that. So really seeing the team and their different cultural styles. Because one of the kind of questions that comes up, particularly for leaders is well, who should adapt? Who should be, you know, who should be adapting to who? How are we going to get the most from working Together and working smarter as a team. And that's particularly important in the current moment where you've got a lot of complexity, pace of changes is accelerating. You've got a lot that's going on for leaders and they're having to hold a lot. So bring the team together for them to understand each other from the point of view of cultural intelligence, their cultural style for communication and behaviors and then being able to define and agree what is going to work best for the team going forward, how is that going to really help um, work better together and connect better together and even to navigate the really difficult moments like the challenging conversations when things where people don't agree, you know, really being able to anticipate in advance how you'll get to agreement is really important because even bringing

Speaker B: different cultures in a team will then create a culture in that team itself. So you almost, you have these almost micro ecosystems within organizations that have got their own little culture because that's how teams are. You know, they sort of start, they bring up their own social norms and how they work together and how they communicate. So if you're a new leader of a new team, um, what sort of I suppose practical things they can do to try and communicate in an effective way. Because obviously there's times when you're communicating to everybody at the same time and as you say, you can't adapt to put different nuance. It's looking at ways of how do we do it that we get everybody on board in terms of your comms, in terms of. And obviously listening and hearing as well and doing that way. What would you suggest for like a new team leader who's taken on a new team?

Speaker A: I mean I think it's about defining the key moments because I think obviously we can have lots of meetings in the calendar, we can have lots of meetings which don't have, add much value and are just there for the sake of it. So I think as somebody coming in new, it's a brilliant kind of challenge to yourself to kind of, kind of go well, okay, what is it that I need to create here? I'm a great believer that we still need to have those moments of even if meetings are getting shorter, even if meetings are becoming more frequent, we still need that one to one time. So I think for me a leader really needs to think about how are they going to make the time and space to get to know their team. How are they going to have the time for that one to one, um, interaction, conversation, connection and as well as at uh, the sort of team Level, you know, what is needed there to bring the team kind together and um, to be able to have that clarity as well. So the clarity of not only the vision of what they want to achieve, but also to discuss out some of these issues and questions that we've been talking about here. So if there are challenges, you know, using cultural intelligence to really navigate that, to understand each other's natural styles and work out, okay, what is the best way forward, maybe it's not your way or my way, but maybe there's a third way that's going to work between us and those norms. Actually being explicit with them. I find like, so I was working

Speaker C: with a team in January where it was absolutely about norms. It was about really getting explicit about how did the team want to work together, what were going to be the usual ways of doing things, to remove the friction, um, to reduce the noise and talk about. Okay, we, for this type of communication we're only going to use this channel. Um, when there is a challenge we're going to pick up the phone. I mean it sounds really old fashioned but actually being really expressive about that,

Speaker A: um, trying to make it very clear about how issues were going to get resolved rather than everybody having that individual way of um, resolving that and assuming that everybody else is going to operate in that way as well. Because what happens, and it was happening in this team as well, is that uh, when people are not agreed about the approach, the way to do it, then it can slow things down. Because what happens is everybody's running at that huge pace in their own lane, but perhaps not in the same direction. And so when problems happen, they create real storms, they create moments where everything has to stop and everybody gets together and goes what just happened there? Where we, how are we going to get things back on track? Whereas if you um, slow down to speed up as I call it, you know, if you slow down first to really agree those um, norms, expectations, how you're going to navigate the problems in advance, it just means that you can go smoothly, you can get faster with the way and smarter, more importantly with the way that you're working together.

Speaker B: So almost that uh, collaborative, almost working on it as a team to try and create those ways that can be helpful and, and getting all the different perspectives in some sort of melting pot, but then creating a real permissions and I don't know, not rules but you know, ways of working, I guess.

Speaker A: Exactly. Ways of working and expectation. But I'm kind of going to come back to a point I was kind of touching on earlier but you know, for me also it may sound super basic, but what I'm noticing as a pattern with some of the leaders I'm working with is that ah, that time for one to one interaction with their uh, team is getting squeezed and that's sometimes the thing that's falling away. But from my perspective that's the thing that's actually really difficult because it's hard as a leader to create that sense of connection, that sense of getting to know somebody unless you have that one to one time. And it becomes even more critical and important in my view if you are also working with somebody virtually, you very, not seeing them very often. So the, the opportunity I suppose for leaders I, the way I see it is to kind of lean into that. Yes it takes time, yes it takes effort, but actually preserving that time, keeping the conversation really trying to find the personal connection points is really critical part of being able to really flow as a team. Um, it's not just nice to do and can get sort of swept to the side.

Speaker B: It's about nurturing those relationships, isn't it? And realizing people are uh, sounds really obvious that they are humans. They're not just there as a job, they do. Do you think we've, we've lost that a little bit with the technology that we, we use and interface a lot with nowadays?

Speaker A: I think that this is a funny thing. I mean I'm, I'm smiling Riley, because in some ways some. What I'm saying is nothing hugely revolutionary which is, you know what I mean? Like, and I'm not really saying anything from a message point of view which about that probably people listening don't instinctively know already but it is so hard on a day to day basis to make it real like to make this a reality. And I think part of that is it is probably the volume of noise, it's the volume of communication that goes on. I think there is also such a focus on performance and delivery and making things happen. And then we layer in the AI into that. And um, you know AI is of course critically important to enabling um, productivity and efficiency. But if we allow AI to replace communication, so if we allow AI to, to be our voice effectively, which I know many people do, and there are very good reasons why to use AI to help you communicate certain things. But if we just copy and paste, if we don't add in the tone of voice, if we don't really, really intentionally think about what we're saying, then we're just losing the connection. We're just beginning to sound like everybody else who's using AI to write an email or everybody else is using AI to express something. So, you know, my message here is not anti AI by any stretch of the imagination. But I think we've got to be very mindful, particularly when it comes to communication, whatever form that is, to know how we want to use it and then to add, uh, and make sure that we've got our tone of voice really shining through.

Speaker B: And you said it right at the start. I think about, we need to be intentional about this. You know, communication doesn't just happen. You have to have an intention of how you're going to communicate, where you're going to communicate, why are you going to communicate, who you're going to communicate with. Um, and then that whole piece about connecting and building trust is, as you say, it's not wildly revolutionary rocket science stuff, but it gets so lost because we are on this journey of everything's fast, fast, fast, fast. And human beings have not developed AI in terms of internally. They are still human beings that take time to build trust. They take time to nurture relationships. It takes time, doesn't it? It's a building of relationships. And as you do and I do, when we work with clients, we nurture those relationships. We build relationships with people and get to know people. And that's where trust builds and builds and builds. And uh, that's how it works. And it's the same thing when you meet new people. And it takes a while to build trust because that's just human thing, but it's a time thing. And I think we're in a time where everything's fast and instant and um, that's not fast and instant at all.

Speaker A: Well, I think that's the interesting thing is it, and I come back to culture with this one because we, you know, the way people, um, interpret what trust is really does depend on culture as well. So yes, for some people, trust is built by delivery. So if you deliver well, if you hit your targets, if you exceed them, then that's how you, you know, you build the trust with somebody. That's when you've got the trust currency with them. But often what I'm finding with people and, and it does depend again, culturally where they are around the world. But actually it's a much more slower process. It is about, yes, time. It can be about the interactions you've got. For some cultures, it is about knowing them personally, knowing what's going on outside of their professional work sphere. Whereas for other cultures, they don't want to talk about what's going on in their personal lives. Actually there's a real um, disconnect and personal life is kept very private and it would be very seen as evasive, um, if you were going to try to ask questions about their personal lives. So there are so many different levels to this. And um, as a leader, I think, you know, what needs to happen is that you need to really navigate this and understand where your, the comfort zone of the person in front of you is. Understanding what's going to work for them, really, even asking them, you know, I'd like to spend more time with you, get to know you, you know, what's going on for you. Opening, really opening up with very wide questions which allows them to really then, um, share with you. But I'd also really say that and it sort of touches into vulnerability as well. But often as a leader it helps if you can share first, if you can be open with the conversations and whether it's sharing something personal about yourself or something that's going on for you, sometimes that invites it back. That sort of reciprocal sharing is really important sometimes. So, you know, starting with yourself rather than assuming it from others is another way that can build that trust quickly.

Speaker B: Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's um, but it's the way you build psychological safety, isn't it? You sort of role model vulnerability, you role model, you know, admitting mistakes, you role model, uh, taking risks, uh, that type of thing. And you start to create that environment and people see it. Um, but even in conversations you say you, you signal the norm by saying, I'm happy to share, so I'm giving you permission to share. That's basically you're reflecting back to, then help refer back to you. Um, what's one thing from a leader's point of view? You talk about the different cultures there in terms of understanding how uh, to be connected. What would be, I suppose a tip or an approach that will help you connect with people better from a different culture's point of view?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think it starts with recognizing obviously the team will have their different ways that they feel comfortable individually and collectively with connection. So I think sometimes this has to happen. Although it's an investment in time at an individual level first to understand people and where they're at. Um, I remember there's a really great quote about sort of the um, investment in relationships, which I think is from um, Gottman, which is if you invest, you know, for every negative, um, interaction in relationship, if you can build five positive ones, then that keeps your kind of currency, of trust at the right levels. And I think this is really true as well, um, as a leader that,

Speaker C: you know, this is really about creating those positive interaction moments. So one action, one clip to leave

Speaker A: with listeners is, how are you doing this? Even in a packed schedule, in a really busy, demanding, um, day, week, month, how are you creating those? Doesn't m have to be grand gestures, even micro moments of connection and conversation at the individual level and the collective level? That really takes an intention. It really needs your attention to make it happen. But ultimately this is an action. It's not something that, you know, it's something that you do. And that's the really important thing for leaders to take away from this.

Speaker B: Yeah, the micro moments, they're the ones that so build, don't they, as time goes by, um, and just on, on, on, on trust, um, in the world we live in, AI and, and everything else. And what's your thoughts on people's building their Persona through like LinkedIn and their profiles and what they post? Um, how do you think that from an internal organization point of view, how does that help or not help? Tell me your thoughts on that.

Speaker A: So I, you know, I'm sure you are facing this question, um, as well, but the question I get asked is, you know, how much or I should I use AI or actually I am using AI for this? You know, is this okay? I think there is, there is no hard and fast rule on this. But what we have to recognize is AI can obviously speed things up, um, when we got to process large amounts of data or information or research. But ultimately that the communication has to come from you and has to sound like you. And one of the big risks that I see in terms of like, let's take LinkedIn as a particular platform is that you get everybody sounding the, the same and they're kind of writing posts in exactly the same way. Right. And so you kind of then get very kind of, um, anodyne kind of approaches because everybody's kind of talking about things in exactly the same way. So we have to maintain that richness of debate. Different points of view, different perspectives bring in, um, your tone of voice. And I think when it comes to particularly LinkedIn, we want people. You want to sound like yourself. You do not want to sound like somebody else. So for sure, brainstorming AI is fantastic for that. For sure. It's great for initial drafting of maybe something you're writing. But you've got to then really think about what's. What do I really believe? Um, where do I Add value in this conversation. How do I bring my tone of voice in? And so it's kind of sometimes not about reducing time, but it's about perhaps those initial steps. But then it's really about the human on the other side who's then taking that and making that. You making it individual, making it unique.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it's um, the challenge of, I think sometimes we've got a little bit lazy with AI as well and it's lacking sometimes the critical thinking that we need to think about certain topics or aspects or things we're sharing about. Um, remember I use it, you probably use it and it's a great sort of sparring partner to uh, develop stuff. But as you say, you've got to a make sure it's correct because often it's not always correct. It's just make things up as well.

Speaker A: Definitely.

Speaker B: But also get that your style, your tone of what, what you're trying to, how you would communicate in terms of, from the written point of view as well. Um, that's been a really interesting conversation Victoria. And um, I think communication will always be the top of the agenda for any organization because it's always something that seems to be challenged, um, in terms of how you communicate in an effective way. And a lot of work I do get, communication comes out a lot certainly with coaching with people and how people perceive things, understand things, uh, or interpret things. I think recently I shared something. I was doing a workshop with a client and I ah, shared something and then somebody asked a question on what I'd shared or a view and it was, they put an assumption on what I said and then I went, I went back to what I shared on the screen. You know. You didn't say that, did you? I went no, I didn't, I just shared that. And she input, took something and then added her own. And we all do that. Obviously we had our own assumptions and sometimes it's been checking with people making sure what they heard from you because I think I said, because fading, I said it's red and it's come out, people think it's black. And that's obviously not quite as a contrast of that but certainly being aware of that. Um, so Victoria, who want to get in touch with you, connect with you, what's the best way to do that?

Speaker A: Absolutely. Well thank you, Julian. So LinkedIn is a place where I spend a lot of time. I do share my thoughts, strategies and ideas over there. So please feel free to connect with me over there. My personal profile, Victoria Reynoldson with a double N. Um, and then I suppose the other thing is that, um, my

Speaker C: book came out at the end of M last year. Become a Global Leader. People are interested to learn more about that. They're really welcome to find that on

Speaker A: Amazon or come over to my website, culturecuppa.

Speaker C: Uh.com book wonderful.

Speaker B: Thank you for your time today. Victoria.

Speaker A: Thank you Julian. Really appreciate the questions.

Speaker B: Thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode. If you like this episode, then please rate review you and share it with your friends and colleagues as a coaching practice. I coach high performing leaders and teams with extreme ambitions and I will help you go beyond what you believe is possible. If this sounds like you, then let's have a conversation. You can contact me at julianrobertsconsulting.com.