Starting the B Corp journey: with B Lab managers Max Hayes and Zach Fayer

Speaker A: So before we get started, and I have you introduce yourselves. This season, I've been asking our B Corps to answer a fun little question. Describe what a B Corp is in five words or less.

Speaker B: A, uh, business. Doing it right.

Speaker A: Beautiful. Okay.

Speaker C: Business that wants to be better.

Speaker A: I like that. Mine, I thought was, you know, at the top of the list, but I see I have competition. I'm not mad at that. Welcome back to Getting down to Business, a B Corp podcast. This season we've sat down with a few Philly based B Corps to take us on their journey through certification and the value of being in the community. And today we're doing things a little differently. We're ending the same way we started talking to B Labbers. And today I'm joined by two very knowledgeable, very smart and expert co hosts, Zac Phayer and Max Hayes. Hey, y'. All. Hi.

Speaker B: Huh? Nice to be with you.

Speaker A: Nice to be with you. Why don't you all introduce yourselves for our listeners?

Speaker B: My name is Zac Thayer. I'm the recertification manager at B Lab US and Canada. I've worked within the B Lab ecosystem for a little over four years now. I started off my career at B Lab as a verification analyst. So I used to help companies with their certification processes, then transitioned over to supporting the B Labios in Canada team on their work, and just within the past six months have become the recertification manager supporting the community of B Corps in the United States and Canada on their recertifications. So that's me.

Speaker C: I'm, uh, Max Hayes. So I'm a community growth manager for B Lab US in Canada. And really what my role is all about is helping companies get from I want to do this to actually joining the community. So companies need help making the business case, convincing folks why they should make this investment. They need help navigating the standards, benchmarking, going through the review process. And I support them in all aspects of those journeys. So that comes as like one to one support. But also webinars, newsletters, all the great ways that our small team reaches for such a broad audience in the US And Canada.

Speaker A: I'm sure prospective B Corps want to get FaceTime with you all. Uh, more than maybe anybody, definitely. So, Max, funny story. When I first got to B Lab and we were at Expoest, I was very amazed to hear how succinct and just clear and to the point you were about describing the value of certification. And I would love if you could share what the value is for businesses looking to certify.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's. It's a great question, and I think it really does depend on the business that we talk to. But there really are a few core things, and one of the main ones is around accountability. And so oftentimes businesses know they want to do better. Kind of going back to my five words, like businesses that want to do better, but they don't necessarily have the systems or structure to hold themselves accountable. And so that's really where maintaining your B Corp certification becomes an awesome accountability tool. And then on the flip side too, that benchmarking and improving impact piece, our standards become the roadmap. So not only are we holding you accountable to what you say, you know, living up to your values, but then we're also giving you that road to travel down and showing you what is best in practice in market. And so those are really two of the main areas. And then the other value add we see is around the branding and the community. Those are really the main four things that I see. The B Corp logo is a small, simple logo, a B with a circle, but it says a lot within that simple logo. And then the community is global and diverse and local all at once. And so I think there's just so much power within the B Corp community as well.

Speaker A: All our listeners are sold. I feel like I can speak on behalf of everyone listening. I would love to know from you all's perspective, since you've been at B Lab for a while now, what does certification look like for a business? So, uh, what is the first thing that happens when they decide to go on the journey?

Speaker C: Yeah, this is an interesting one. I feel like it kind of goes back to businesses know they want to do better and they don't know how. So they're out there looking for certifications, frameworks to start, to utilize, to leverage. It has to start with benchmarking. So once they're out there and there's lots of certifications out there, what makes B Corp very unique is how holistic it is. I think crosses industries and locations and all of those things. So I feel like B Corp is a great starting place for folks who are like, no matter what industry size, anything, this is a starting point for you. And then there's that initial stage of the benchmarking. It becomes very overwhelming very quick. Our B Impact assessment is a free tool for anyone to go out and use, but it's about 250 questions. So it's a beast. And so people will get started and then they get overwhelmed. And that's where Zach and I come in. Providing additional resources, support and training to kind of create that roadmap. So it's like that initial spark. I want to do better. There's this awesome community out there that's there for me. But then it's very overwhelming to get started. And so we try to simplify the process, tap you into the community, get you the support you need to know not only how to sell it to your team members, but also how to get through it in a meaningful way.

Speaker A: Mhm. Now what do the resources look like? I know we have a B Corp one on one webinar. So where can they find it and what does it look like?

Speaker C: So the best place to start is our website. Like Zach mentioned, we also have B Lab Global, our parent company. And B Lab Global is really responsible for the development of our standards, a lot of our tech tools. But when it comes to the support you're looking for and additional resources, I think going to The B Lab U.S. and Canada website is a great first start. We have a great webpage called why Certify? And it kind of walks you through some of the main stages of what are the core requirements, what are the costs? And within that we have, yeah, webinars, guides, online courses, office hours. With me, if you're the kind of person who just wants to talk face to face with somebody, then I know that can go a long way. But we also want to make sure that our resources like speak to different ways of learning, different styles. Oftentimes entrepreneurs are putting out a hundred fires at once, have no time to go to a live webinar. And so having an online course that's self paced, go at your own speed, I think is another really powerful tool that can meet folks no matter where they're at in their journey.

Speaker A: I would love to hear from both of you on what are some common misconceptions that come up for B Corps that are starting their journey. We've been talking about the BIA all season long and I think people don't realize just how intense it can be. 250 questions is something that you keep coming back to. But other than the sheer size of uh, the bia, what are some other misconceptions businesses have?

Speaker B: I think something that comes up mostly from a B Lab perspective is that a lot of companies come into the process thinking that B Lab is going to act as like a consulting agency or something along those lines that they're going to have very direct like handholding on their B Corp certification journey. And to be quite frank, B Lab, both us and Canada and Global are nonprofits with like, very limited resources, very few people, and very few, like, internal resources stretch as far and wide as possible for as many B Corps as possible. We do have the ability and the capability to meet with B Corps one on one and to try to support and help provide answers as companies are going through the process. But that sort of consulting dream that I think a lot of companies come into it with is usually not the reality for a lot of companies. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: And to build on that too. I think it's also important to note that, like, it's actually considered best practice for the folks who are creating the standards to not also then be consulting on them. And there is a beautiful network out there of B consultants, folks who really can help you crack open those books, go a lot deeper. But like I was saying earlier, we also want to have a lot of resources open and available because obviously consultants cost a lot of money. It takes a lot of time and effort. The other thing I would say to this question is oftentimes, right, folks think B Corp certification is potentially like a silver bullet, a way to double your sales overnight, get on every shelf at a major retailer. And unfortunately, that's just not really the case. But it is really important that you contextualize. I think folks sometimes come to B Lab and say, okay, I want to double my sales overnight, or something like that. And what they learned through going through this process is that there's so much more to consider in your business. And so while that assessment can be overwhelming, it's going to get you to look at corners of your business you never really examined or maybe you took for granted or things you've never formalized or actually written down or turned into a policy. And so I think that's like a big learning of, you know, oftentimes folks come to us for one specific need, but through going through the journey, they realize there's so much more to holistic impact management.

Speaker A: So speaking of the journey, we've talked about it in chunks, but I would love to hear, or I would actually like you all, uh, to walk us through what the certification process looks like, especially from like a key stage perspective. So what happens between a company completing the BIA to finally receiving their certification?

Speaker B: Okay, so there's a couple of different stages. The first thing that's going to happen is the company is going to go through what's called the evaluation stage. Actually, a contractor from B Lab US in Canada is going to meet with your company, do a very high level overview of how your company company answered the assessment, potentially ask for some additional information to make sure that all of the T's are crossed and I's are dotted. But not going to do like that super in depth review that you would expect from the B Corp certification. The evaluation analyst will finish with your review. You'll be in a queue for a little bit of time and then you'll be assigned to a verification analyst who will take you through the verification stage. And at that point your verification analyst will do like the very in depth review of your company's assessment will potentially ask for additional documentation and additional information about how your company answered the assessment. Verify that your answers are correct based on your documentation or other other information you provide. Ultimately, at the end of that process, if you're still above 80 points, your company will be awarded B Corp certification. Just have to sign an agreement and you'll be able to go ahead from there.

Speaker A: I've came, I've shown all m my receipts, I've gotten what I've come for.

Speaker C: Now what Oftentimes folks are like just so excited to get over the line, they aren't thinking about the next step, which is actually one of the most critical stages. So our team has a great onboarding webinar that we encourage everyone who's recently certified to join. And really what they're doing in that webinar is not just welcoming you into the B Corp community, but getting you to start thinking about the next steps, which is really, how are you going to announce your certification? How are you going to get your staff to understand what process you just went through, what it means and how it's changed your outlook on your business. And then how are you going to get involved in the community? And so I often say B Corp certification is like college. What you put in is what you get out. And so once you cross that finish line, once you get into school, you still got to join the clubs, you still got to make relationships with teachers, you still got to do all of that. And so once you're, um, across the line, it's time to start getting involved. What B Local can you join? What network is relevant for you? When are you coming to Champions retreat? So I think all of those things are really important and oftentimes it can be hard to prioritize that when you've been fighting for so many months to get your data seen, to get your points earned, which is really important and really critical. I think the most exciting part is once you're across that line and really integrating into the community and learning how the community can really support you, make you feel seen, and help you go even deeper than the standards ever could.

Speaker A: I'm curious to know, from you also's perspective, is there a part of the certification journey that you see businesses typically get hung up on?

Speaker B: I think that the biggest thing for companies that speak with me usually about the amount of documentation that needs to be provided, a lot of times companies go into the process maybe like a bit over preparing for their review. There's a lot of. For any size company, you're going to need to provide quite a bit of documentation in order to get verified by your analyst. Especially for smaller companies in our community, that can be a pretty heavy lift. Like if you're a single member, owner, founder of an organization that's going through the recertification process, it can be a heavy lift to also at the same time be going through the certification process where you're the only member of your team that is able to really support and provide the information necessary for, for the certification. So I always appreciate and always really acknowledge that going through the recertification process or the initial certification process, especially for smaller members of our community, can be quite a big lift to get through.

Speaker C: Yeah. And Zach earlier was explaining all the different stages of the review process. And also we intentionally build in space to gather documentation. So once you're done with evaluation, before you start verification, when you're waiting in that queue, there's also time to start gathering some of those documents, doing some of that work. But documentation is such a big piece on the new side as well. Oftentimes folks are like, how do I know if I'm ready? Am I prepared to hit submit? I don't know what's going to happen in evaluation and verification on my side. I think one thing I see oftentimes is typically in a company, there might be an ESG manager or somebody who's really passionate who just went in, created a BIA account, filled it out as best as they could, and they don't know, like, how do I get the internal buy in? How do I get the board to help us pass the legal change? How do we, how do I really action on all this work that I've put in? And so that's where, you know, me and my team come in to be like, okay, great. Who do we need to talk to? How do we need to get them to realize there is immense value in joining this community? And that's really like the fun part too because you really get to like, like almost play the consultant a little bit. And be like, what are you struggling with? What do you want your business's impacts to be? And that's like where folks can get really excited too. So I always try when they're like feeling down or feeling stuck is try to like refocus again on the light at the end of the tunnel, that good thing that's coming. Because I think there is a lot of good in the B Corp community.

Speaker A: Oh, I absolutely agree. And to that point internally, because I hear a lot in my role that people want to know, like, what does it look like behind the veil? What is it like to be a B Labber? And at our meetings we ring the bell for new B Corp. So I would love to hear if there are any favorite projects or success stories that you would want to ring the bell on.

Speaker B: I think that, honestly, the aspect of my work that feels so rewarding and that I really love to do is whenever I hold, uh, webinars for the community, as we mentioned before, it is rare, or maybe some B Corps find it difficult to get face to face time with people within B Lab. So I hold monthly webinars with the community to support them on the recertification process. And getting the chance to speak with like 20B Corps at a time about how they're finding the recertification process to support them on their journeys as they are trying to become a recertified B Corp again. It's very rewarding to have that time to interact with the community, to support them on their questions. And it's a really nice thing that's built into the, just the day to day function of my role that I really appreciate.

Speaker C: That's such a good one, Zach. And I feel like I feel similar when I'm hosting webinars too. And it's one thing if you were to lift the curtain up and realize is that we all don't have enough time in the day if we're trying to, you know, do things as good as we can, meet with folks. But, uh, obviously we need to do things at scale. And one project that I'm particularly proud of being able to support and watch flourish and grow is the Level Program. And so that was founded by a, uh, former colleague of ours, Andy Fife, who's since left B Lab, but I got to work with him a little bit and see that program come to be. And it's just so amazing to see the B Corp community really trying to live up our mission, which is a massive mission, right? Like an inclusive, equitable and regenerative economic system for all People and the planet. Part of that mission drew me to want to come and work for Belab, but also, it's like, it feels so impossible to actually live that sometimes. And so the level program, to me was like a dream. Somebody had to really want to live that out. And now here we are a few years down the road, and we've seen cohort after cohort of entrepreneurs who are coming in and making waves and really representing what this movement is and creating that representative community. We want it to be, you know, it can't just be the big ones who have great profit margins and, you know, really good marketing budgets. It also has to be the local ones who are making really big differences in their community. And I think in our age of social media media, it's hard sometimes for those local stories to make waves or become mainstream.

Speaker A: What drew you to B Lab in the first place? How did you all find your way into this work?

Speaker C: Zach and I actually both participated in the same internship program when we were in college. And it's very similar to what B Lab actually did, offering free sustainability reports to small businesses. And so I was just desperate for new work, and I was networking with folks, and so I was reaching out to the alumni of the program. And Zach actually said, oh, I just got a job at B Lab. And I was like, b Lab, I've heard of that before the B Corp certification. So after that, I started. Started applying, and I knew that it was the intersection of sustainability and private business. My previous role was much more focused on the sustainability component, but I was missing that community piece, you know, the people side of it, which I think is deeply important. And when I saw Belab's mission, I was like, oh, this is it. This is that bridge of business, economics and people and community. And Zach is also very intelligent and inspiring. So when I talked to him about it, I was like, I know. I got to follow this guy. And I started as an evaluation analyst, you know, helping companies do that initial review stage.

Speaker B: You flatter me too much, Max. I, uh, for me, I've always believed that businesses are the aspect of our society that can really work towards the kind of change that we want to see in the world. I think that government is finicky and doesn't always, as we're seeing now, doesn't always, like, function in a way that moves towards progress. I think nonprofits always have the best of intentions, but are chronically under resourced and can't always affect that sort of change. If we want to see a more equitable, just sustainable World. I think that businesses have the incentive, the power structures, you know, frankly, the capital, in order to, like, effect those changes. So working for an organization like B Lab, which really harnesses the power of businesses across a, uh, range of industries, across a range of different sizes and different geographical contexts, this is really a global movement that in my mind going to has already made lots of really big changes, but is going to continue to make like, really big changes over time as well.

Speaker A: We talk a lot about the value or the impact that BuCorp certification has for businesses, but what does that look like on the consumer and the client side?

Speaker B: I think that for a lot of my friends that know what I do and are aware of the B Corp certification, they go into the grocery store or they go look for products online or things like that. If they see the B Corp certification either on a company's website or on a company's package, they know that that product or that service has been vetted by an organization like B Lab in order to ensure that it meets a certain threshold of social or environmental responsibility. So for a consumer to, to go into a store that they want to frequent and to see a symbol that kind of holds the same sort of weight as like a fair trade symbol that, where you know that, like that symbol simplifies that product is paying workers a fair wage, or an organic symbol where you know that that product was grown in a sustainable way. The B Corp certification means that a business is operating in a way that is more environmentally or socially just. So I think that it's really great for consumers to just have that access and that peace of mind when they're going and shopping for products or services they use every day.

Speaker C: Yeah, totally agree. No company can be perfect, but we as consumers need to know which companies are actually trying to do better and which ones are out here trying to manipulate us. My mom taught me very young to not trust marketing, don't trust advertising. And that's something that really stuck deeply inside of me and why I love being able to quickly recognize which companies are trying to go deeper. And also I think, you know, while the consumer doesn't always understand the legal component of B Corp Certification, I think that's like a really critical piece, right? Like, corporate law in America is not set up to support purpose driven company success. Most companies in America have one responsibility and that's to make money and pass it along to their shareholders. B Corps actually have to expand their fiduciary duties, which legally allows them to do more than just consider profit. So if you do Want to pay your employees more, offset your carbon emissions, you're legally allowed to do that. And so also by purchasing from B Corps, you know that this company is not legally bound to only pass profit along to their shareholders, but is reinvesting into their community. In our environment.

Speaker A: I would love for us to spend a little bit of time talking about something that our community has been preparing for for a little while now, and that's the evolution of the standards. Now, Jorge and I kicked off the season talking about this just a little bit and reassuring, in a sense, our community that this is not the first time that the standards have evolved, but they've never quite looked like this. So can you all speak to what the major difference is between our current version and the new set of standards and why an evolution of our standards is important for us to continue this movement?

Speaker B: I'm actually going to refer back to a question that you just asked, which is what does it mean for consumers, like, when they see the B Corp symbol? I think one thing that's been a disadvantage for the B Corp movement, the B Corp certification, has been that it is a bit vague exactly what it means to be a B Corp. We know that it means that your business is operating in a way that has been verified to be socially or environmentally sustainable. But beyond that, there aren't really foundational pillars that we can say to people or say to consumers. This is what this certification means. Moving to the evolution of standards, that all changes, because at this point, with the new standards that are coming out, there will be a set of baseline criteria that every B Corp needs to meet in order to become certified. So we can say, just for an example and not. Not to say that this is like, going to be exactly what it's going to be. But we can say that if you have the B Corp certification, that means that you pay your workers a living wage. That means that you have an environmental management plan that's in place and has goals that you're working towards and things like that. Just the ability to communicate, to consum what exactly the certification means and what it stands for and what it means that the business has to do to enter this community. I think it's going to really just make it a lot clearer for consumers and other people who are interested in the certification to know what it means.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I think that's one of the components that's most exciting to me. And not just the consumers too, but employees. Right. The B Corp community is, you know, 900,000 employees represented, and there aren't many B Corps where every employee knows what it takes or understands all that goes into it. And so also being able to, to like, make that message simpler for your staff, I think is really critical too. And then also what we're seeing is the esg, csr, all of these buzzword acronyms. Landscape is changing rapidly. You know, there's a lot of new regulations coming down in Europe. The US And Canada are not moving at that same speed, but we want to make sure that our community members are still living up to those values and benchmarking against standards that are reflective of the market we're operating in today. And so I'm also really excited that the where we're headed is really going to be putting businesses in the US And Canada at forefront of that movement, especially when it's not legally required to do a lot of the things that our new standards will require all businesses to do.

Speaker A: So for businesses who are listening and are like, okay, all this sounds good, or I'm making the M moves already to be a social enterprise, but I haven't collected my receipts. As we've been saying, what advice would you give them as they're considering becoming

Speaker B: a BQR as the new standards are coming out? Definitely keep your eye on any updates for uh, like what exactly the new standards are going to look like. Additionally, it's always a good time just to formalize policies and. And one thing I often hear from companies that are going through the certification or recertification is we act as a good business, but we don't have it like, written down exactly what our policies are. And I think that both be in the B Corp community, but also just to like, have those kinds of things formalized is a great resource both for you and your employees. And if you grow, it can kind of like show where your company has been and how it's going to continue to grow. So just putting some time and effort into formalizing your policies, both for the certification, but also just as a resource for people who either work for your company now or work might work for your company in the future.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's a great answer, Zach. I'm trying to think of a different angle I would take here. I would say there are two other things I'd really recommend folks do who are like, we're doing it. We want to go deeper, we got the energy and it has to do with the community angle. So like, go get your people. So like first build your B team. Like, who else in your company do you need to get on board who can really help you create the institutional change that you want for your business. And then the next best thing is to go out and talk to B Corps who have already done it. The community is there, they're waiting for you, but they also want to help you even before you're in there. And so I always tell folks the best place to learn about the value of it is to go talk to other members of our community. And again, it's not a cutthroat, competitive place. Folks want to help you. They want to see you succeed. They want to see you live out your dream and your mission. And so don't be afraid to put yourself out there, be vulnerable. Show up to a B local cold, email a B Corp and say, hey, I love that you're a B corp. I want to do this. Can we get coffee? You know, I think that goes a long way and can give you that sense of community even before. Before you kind of get started on this daunting process, which I think is really important to make sure you have that support network around you, because if you try to do it all yourself, it is a lonely road and you may not be as successful as when you have your people behind you.

Speaker A: Right. I love that we've talked about community all, uh, season long. I want to direct it to you all, uh, personally. Earlier you all, uh, talked about the joy that you get from hosting webinars and being a tool for potential B Corps to tap into. But what has been the most rewarding part of this job for you thus far?

Speaker B: I think seeing companies that I've worked with for more than four years now, uh, either continuing to be in the community or engaging with the community more fully. I think earlier in the series you had Tess from Triple Bottom brewing on. I worked with Tess on Triple Bottom's first B Corp certification process. So it's so cool that she's remained in the community, that she's actively engaged in the community, that her business has continued to grow and become more and more influential, both in Philadel, but also, like, globally within. Within the B Corp movement. I think it's really great just for me personally, just to see that those companies are continuing to thrive within the movement, but also continuing to highlight the movement to other businesses that are interested and want to join or are B Corp curious. That's very exciting for me.

Speaker C: I love that answer, Zach. I think for me, it really comes back to hope. To be an entrepreneur, you have to have a dream. You have to want to make a difference. And I love being Able to. Able to validate that for people, to show them that this community is out there. We see you. We, uh, know what you're trying to do, and we want to support you. And I think the best culmination of that is Champions Retreat. I'll never forget my first Champions Retreat. You know, I came on as an evaluation analyst. I helped over 300 companies go through the review process, and then I got to go to Champions Retreat and just be in the presence of all of these entrepreneurs and leaders. And not only that, like, the culture we created was, like, the opposite of traditional corporate culture. You know, like, it was so awesome to be a full person and to be able to show up as myself and, like, know that showing up however you are is going to be enough and is okay. And so I think that's one really cool component of the. The B Corp community is that come as you are and dream big. And we're here. We got you.

Speaker A: Yeah. Speaking of Champions Retreat, my first Champions Retreat was actually right here in Philly. And what an experience. I would be remiss if I didn't allow you all, uh, to show love to your local community. We always talk about buying local, about connecting and collaborating with your local B Corps. Is something special happening in Philly with the B Local community here? The B Corps? What love do you want to share with the B Corpse, uh, of your city?

Speaker B: Well, first of all, shout out to Michael at, uh, B Local Philly. He's an amazing person and so engaged and so inspiring to me personally. Just like, how. How much he loves the B Corp community and works so hard to engage people within the local Philadelphia B Corp community. Just shout out to Michael. Love you very much. I think that it's been really inspiring to see how the B Local community and B Locals everywhere, not just in Philly, but I've definitely noticed this. Are responding to the changes that have happened since January. Hosting webinars for the community, helping companies to identify ways to remain engaged and active and pushing forward on being progressive beacons within the Philadelphia community and within the business community. I think that B Locals, especially B Local Philly, have really been instrumental in helping businesses to navigate this very weird time specifically within their local context.

Speaker C: The other thing I would add is that the B Corps in Philly, like, they bring the joy, too. The events we go to is we get down to business, we want to talk, but then you also have to have that fun, that humanness. And that's what I do love about Michael and all the other B Corps, too, is like, creating that space when you come together is really important because if there isn't joy in the work, you can burn out very quickly. And another thing I think the B Corps in Philia are really great about is, you know, a lot of the guests on this series have also talked about the other community partners that they work with, the sustainable business network Impact phl. There are so many other organizations that are adjacent to who we are and what we're doing. I'm always amazed by how hard it is to get us to work together, but when we do, it's magic. And so I just love the way B Local Philly really does try to tap into those other community partners, share resources, and really elevate the impact that we can all make when we work together. Even if it is difficult to decide who pays for what or whose branding goes where. But at the end of the day, it's about, yeah, that connection, that joy. Knowing our community is worth investing in, where worth investing in.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think a lot of us internally would say that we are at an inflection point as a community with standards evolving, with the landscape of business and the way that we are being called to show up. I would love to, I would say, unfortunately, close out this season, but send us off with a bit of hope of what is next for us as an organization and as a community.

Speaker B: With all the change that's going on in the world right now, it also feels poetic that, um, B Lab itself is changing and the B Corp movement is changing. I am so excited, and I imagine this isn't the same for Max. I'm so excited for the standards to be released, for the new standards to come into full effect and to be seen and utilized by companies. I really do think it's going to be transformational for this movement for the companies that are both going to hopefully join the B Corp movement in the future, but also that are going to hopefully remain in the B Corp movement going forward.

Speaker C: Yeah, change is always tough, but with change comes a little moment between the change and. And your reaction. And that's the chance to, like, reflect. And I feel like where we're at is we've done that reflection, our new standard show that we want to be a community of education, of learning, of excellence. And I feel like that's where I'm excited for this shift because there's the chance of we're all starting over together. Almost now is a great opportunity where the playing field has been leveled and we're all beginners again. And so in that there is that opportunity to really like build stronger bonds, break down biases like re examine the relationships, uh, the baggage that you might be bringing into the process. So I'm really excited for that opportunity to like start fresh and come at it wide eyed and know that we're going to be here to help each other and support our B Corp community and make sure that everyone comes along for this journey. Who wants to come along with us.

Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you so much Zach and Max for joining me and for all of your insight. We've gotten down to business and that is the end of this season but there's still work to be done. So if you are interested in certifying as a B corp or you would like to learn more about the B corp movement or perhaps use our free resource, our free tool, the B Impact Assessment, visit we are b corpse.com and we'll see you next season. Bye y'.

Speaker C: All.