The Superior Hiking Trail at 40

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to explore Minnesota More. I'm Randolph Riley, the deputy director at Explorer, and so did tourism for Outdoor Recreation. For those of you who might know, the Superior hiking trail turns 40 years old this year. 300 miles of trail running from Duluth to the Canadian border, through river valleys, up, uh, ridgeline bluffs, past eight state parks, and along some of the most dramatic views of Lake Superior you'll find anywhere on earth. The Superior Hiking trail passes through 42 miles of Duluth alone, with more than 60 official trailheads, giving people easy access up and down the entire North Shore. Backpacker magazine once ranked it as the second best long trail in the nation, and it's completely free to use. So today I'm joined by two people who dedicated serious time to making sure it stays one of the best long trails in the nation. Lisa Lokola is the executive director of the Superior Hiking Trail Association. And John Storkampf is a thru hiker, a trail race director and volunteer crew leader who's been on the trail in just about every capacity you could be since 1995. We talked to Lisa and John about how this trail came to be, what keeps it running, and what the next 40 years of superior Hiking Trail might look like. So whether you've logged hundreds of miles on the sht or you've never set foot on it before, this conversation will make you want to change that. So here's our discussion about Superior Hiking Trail with Lisa and John.

Speaker C: Come explore Minnesota. It's a hoot. And don't you know about the marvelous Minnesotans Tour? Creating and promoting different spaces and adventures to explore our great outdoors. And since you're here, you'll hear the reasons to enjoy all of our season. Since the North Star State's 10,000 lakes and all space in between is the perfect place to venture with your friends and family. My name is Lisa Locla. I'm the executive director of the Superior Hiking Trail Association. I've been with the association now for six years. Um, I came into the association, I would say, at a, at a kind of odd time. It was during, during the pandemic and, um, we weren't actually doing any work on the trail. And I always say that was maybe, um, a little bit of a gift to me because I had an opportunity to work on building relationships and focus, uh, on getting to know our longtime volunteer and staff. Um, that first year, year and a half, um, before we kind of got back on the trail and, and started ramping up our work. Um, yeah, my background, I'm a recreational planner, um, Worked in government and other nonprofits and um, was drawn to the sht like so many other people, um, because of the rapid access, um, especially in the community I live in, city of Duluth, um, to the trail. And being able to recreate um, so freely, um, literally freely, like no, no fees attached, um, and how it connected so many different communities along the North Shore to our public lands is just um, amazing opportunity.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I'm John Storkamp. I am a longtime Superior Hiking Trail enthusiast and have had the opportunity to wear probably an above average number of hats, uh, as a, uh. Not just a Superior Hiking Trail user, as a backpacker, hiker, runner, uh, through hiker, uh, but also, um, my organization directs two trail running races that take place on the Superior Hiking Trail each year. Uh, one in the spring and one in the fall. Um, in addition to that, I'm a volunteer. I am the volunteer crew leader, um, on the Superior Hiking Trail. So I've been really fortunate. And then on top of that I've actually worked as a contractor on the trail through my day job job. So I've had an opportunity to uh, work on the trail in just about every capacity. Uh, aside from being staff or being on the actual board. Um, those are two roles I haven't uh, been involved with. And I guess I'll just say yet you never know what the future might be.

Speaker B: Yeah, I was just gonna say yet. Um, so to kind of start at the beginning of this whole thing, maybe this be a good question for you Lisa. Um, can you give us a sense of uh, some of the background on how the trail got started in 1986 and who were some of the folks behind it and what was the original vision for the trail?

Speaker C: Yeah, well, um, you know one of the. One of the fun facts is that the trail actually started before 86. The. Or the association started in 86. Um, and we kind of uh, for. For. For ease of storytelling, say 1986 is kind of the. The birth of the. And thus the trail. But the idea of the trail started showing up in different recreational plans both for the Superior National Forest, um, as well as um, this. The Minnesota Scorp, the state um, statewide comprehensive outdoor rec plan. There's like inklings of like oh, we should have a long distance trail. Uh, um. At the time this was in, you know, as early as like the late 60s and 70s where this idea was showing up. Um, it's really in the. At a time where the Appalachian Trail was getting a lot of um, of notoriety and hiking. You know, this, this Activity hiking in the US Was starting to like, really blow up. And so, um, at the time there was a recreational, uh, a planner, forester, um, at the Forest Service named Lee Shar. And he was taking a course, uh, ah, class and you know, like some continuing ed. Right. And wrote, uh, essentially what became kind of like the case study for the Superior Hiking Trail. Um, and what he called for in that plan, um, was. Was the need for there to be an association to back it. That not one organization or entity, um, one LAN manager could take this on. But it really needed to be, um, managed, built, um, by an association. And so 86 is when, um, the association started and, uh, brought together a group of land managers and business owners along the shore, trail enthusiasts as well, um, to float the idea of creating the association. It was picked up really quickly and people ran with it. And, um, we're really fortunate. We're 40 years old. So we actually have some of our founders that we get to interact with still today and ask questions and learn from. Um, our history is not that old, but, um, gosh, uh, we've done a lot in 40 years.

Speaker B: A lot has happened in 40 years. Um, how does. How does that. How does that, um, longevity compare to some of the other major hiking trails throughout the U.S. i mean, the Appalachian Trail and the PCT. How old are those compared to the sht.

Speaker C: Yeah, we're. We're babies, you know, we're. We're newbies. Um, which is great, honestly. Um, because we're. We're not having to start from scratch. Right. We have what I call like a phone a friend moment a lot of times with these other trail associations around the country that we can lean on and. And work with. Um, and while a lot of folks are older than us, um, you know, we're constantly like, yeah, picking up what each other is doing and doing differently. And I want to point out too, like long trails, there's just so much, um, differences between each primarily because of the way that they were, um, acquired or land was acquired or easements acquired, like the at with eminent domain. Um, it's, you know, something that will probably never happen again. Um, and along with a lot of other, like Continental Divide or other trails that are primarily on public lands, um, it's just very different than. Than us. Um, so we're. We're working, um, with over 200 landowners just for our 300 miles of trail.

Speaker B: Yeah, that was a. That was a question on the list. If you. If you have. If you have eminent domain in your toolkit, it's easy to build a long trail, obviously. Um, but you, you all, as you just mentioned, the trail cross is federal, state, county, private land. How does that all get coordinated? I know you could probably spend an entire podcast on that, but can you give us like a, Just a quick summary of how do you deal with all those different stakeholders?

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, well, obviously you can see where a lot of our staff time goes, managing, um, those relationships, um, staying up to date, um, with our agreements and keeping them fresh. Those are really important things. Um, I think a couple things that we really pride ourselves on is just really good communication. We host at minimum annual meetings with all of our, our public landowners, um, and making sure that we're connecting with them and, you know, our private landowners. Um, we reach out as we can, but it's actually something that we need to be better at. Uh, it's hard to keep up relationships with so many different landowners, but things come up. Um, we try to address them quickly and work with people. Everyone's situation's a little different. Um, uh, their needs or wants. Uh, some people want to close their section for, you know, firearm deer season, for instance. Uh, we try to work with a landowner to accommodate their hunt, allow, um, them to use their land, um, during that time exclusively and things like that. So, um, it's a challenge. Uh, but, uh, thus far we've been successful in keeping, you know, the, the trail alignment intact. And our goal, I think, moving forward, especially we look at the next 40 years, is trail protection and strengthening those relationships and those agreements to make sure the, the trail we all love and enjoy and the alignment we all love and enjoy today, um, remains.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think in the, in the context of Minnesota trails, y' all are probably, y' all are probably more like teenagers or young adults. Um, whereas someone like the Driftless hiking trail would be a baby, a tiny baby. Uh, do you all work with them, like, to share some of your knowledge that you've learned crafting this trail? You work with other folks that are trying to do the same thing.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. That's funny that you mentioned the Driftless because, uh, yeah, when I started, uh, with the association five, six years ago, you know, I met with some of their early volunteers, um, who are coming up with the idea, right, of the Driftless and, and trying to get some traction around it. And, and, uh, I told them, I said, you know, in 10 years time, we're going to sit back and laugh and have a good laugh about, like, how this very first conversation we ever had about this, and it's true. It's amazing how much um, you know, momentum they're gaining and the support of the Environmental Natural Resource Trust Fund dollars, um, to do some of their initial work and planning. It's really cool. Um, so yeah, we definitely support them and um, we, we the Sphere Hiking Trail association definitely we don't want to be the only game in town. We want to see better trail access and connectivity throughout the state and different, especially in different regions that are under. Under trailed if you will.

Speaker B: Under trailed.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, so I think, I think a lot of people don't understand that none of these trails would exist without volunteers to support them and to maintain them and help maintain uh, for the Superior Hiking Trail. What role do volunteers play in just maintaining it and keeping it the trail that we all want to hike on the weekends?

Speaker C: Yeah, well, I guess I would just start off by saying like, you know, the trail association itself was like 100% volunteer run for a really long time. And then you know, really like those volunteers identified um, the need to have you know, paid staff folks. But yeah, we have over 600 volunteers giving um, 10,000 plus hours a year to the trail. And we're lucky to have John here. He can tell you a little bit about like what that looks like and feels like, um, because he's really um, been involved long enough to yeah, kind of summarize it probably better than I could.

Speaker B: Yeah. John, what's it feel like to be a volunteer on the Superior Hiking Trail?

Speaker A: Uh, it's really, really easy to do, um, in the sense that when you uh, fall in love with the trail, um, it's something that you just naturally, uh, a lot of people naturally want to figure out how they can contribute back to the trail and back to the experience, knowing the experiences that they've had on the trail. Um, and then that's oftentimes evolution of people who really fall kind of head over heels in love with the trail, with the North Shore is how can I get involved? And everyone has. The beautiful thing is that there's it's uh, there's. It's a big tent and there's a lot of different ways that we can get involved um, with the uh, association. Maybe you're busy or you're ah, have something that's keeping you from physically getting out and helping on the trail. Um, maybe it's uh, donations through uh, a personal donation or through a business or a sponsorship. Uh, or just getting involved in another way, um, sitting a term on the board of directors. Um, so there's really a lot of opportunities for those of us that want to be able to give back and contribute to the trail. Um, I think your topic leading into this, uh, about um, just the. How the trail is situated in the landscape and all these private landowners and all these. It's almost seemingly impossible that a trail like this would even exist and could continue or is. Is, you know, for the duration that it has so far and the goal of continuing in perpetuity. And there's. In all the years that I've been involved with the trail, there's been very few interruptions in the continuity of the trail, which just really speaks to the. The vision of the initial volunteer board to bring in staff, knowing that at time, over time things would scale, the complexity would increase, and better management and oversight of the trail would. Would need to, um, exist. Uh, but really when I, when the two of you were speaking on that topic, all I could think was we've already gotten to this, the kind of, uh, concept of trail magic because it's. It is almost implausible that it would exist. And I think just as volunteers fall in love with the trail and they're kind of the super users who want to both use a trail and then contribute in some way, I think generally speaking, there's a lot of goodwill for the trail throughout its entire corridor, starting down to the south of Duluth and then all the way up to the border. And that people, um, not, you know, irregardless of how much time they personally spend on and interact with the trail, um, the fact that it's there that people understand that it's a good and healthy, uh, outlet for people to be able to venture into the woods. I think a lot of people from all walks of life, even if they aren't superior hiking trail super users, or maybe they just know it as, oh, I live down here on this road and I know there's that trail head up in the woods. I think people just have a general sense of goodwill towards the trail. And um, as volunteers, as staff and as board, I think it's incumbent upon us to uh, try to continue to just foster that goodwill so we can bring the trail forward into the future amidst some of the challenges that Lisa was speaking on.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I use the term social contract. Like that's what we have with people. It's really. It's a social contract, um, of shared values, of connection to nature. And we're lucky to live in a region, the country and a region of our state, even that. That puts uh, a high value on that.

Speaker B: Could we talk A little bit about maybe some. Some metrics for people don't understand the. The Superior Hiking Trail. How long is the Superior Hiking Trail?

Speaker C: Well, every. Every year it could be a little different because we're always rerouting. Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah, so it has changed over time. Um, right now we. We. We call, um, and, um, pretty near, but we also have a lot of connector trails, spur trails, um, loop trails, uh, uh, specifically. And, you know, certain neighborhoods are, um, in the. In the. Our Duluth section or up the shore near popular, um, state parks. So, uh, there's lots of ways that people can interact with the Superior Hiking Trail without just kind of being on a long, linear section of the main spine of the trail. Um, and in many cases, some people don't even realize they're on the Superior Hiking Trail. And they are. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I really feel like the Superior Hiking Trail is kind of the foundation of Duluth's entire outdoor infrastructure. Um, it seems like it connects to everything. If you're mountain biking, you'll. You'll look over and you'll see the Superior Hiking Trail breaking off. Wherever you're mountain biking or if you're, um. Or if you're paddling, you look and see the Superior Hiking Trail. It feels like it connects to everything in Duluth that you want to be. Be. Uh, when it comes to outdoor recreation, which is, I think, extremely important for. For both a local economy to have that type of connectivity, I think Duluth is super, super lucky to have that type of connectivity because it's, um. That's one of the most important, uh, aspects that to. To really grow a local area's outdoor recreation economy is to have that, um, so that's. That's really, uh, interesting to hear that perspective. How many. Do you have any type of metrics with regards to maybe estimates on how many people use the trail on an annual basis?

Speaker C: Yeah. Um, well, that is the number one question we get. Like, how many people use the trail every year?

Speaker B: Uh, it's hard to. And it's a hard.

Speaker C: Yeah. And, uh, I think I asked that question during my job interview. Like, everyone's like, how many people use it? Um, so. So of course, that was, like, a question that I wanted to answer. Uh, when I joined the association and coming from a planning background, um, I knew that's actually. Actually a hard, ah, question to answer on such a long, linear trail with we have over 60 official trail heads. Uh, so there's a lot of places where people can jump on and off the trail, not counting those, like, social trails or, um, trail Intersections. So, uh, in 2023, we undertook our very first ever master plan for the trail. Um, through that we, um, bought our first trail counters and partnered with the University of Minnesota, um, their office of, um, Public Affairs. Uh, down in the Twin Cities, there was a Professor emeritus, um, Dr. Greg Lindsay, who wanted to give us some time of pro bono time to help us develop a count program. And so pretty cool to have that level of accuracy working with someone who's worked in this field for a really long time. And, um, came up with, uh, a now estimate that we have about 400,000 user visits between May and October of every year. And that is, you know, not. Not every section is equal. Right. There's popular sections of the trail. There's a lot quieter sections. Um, we obviously have 42 miles within the, you know, city limits of Duluth, um, which is a metropolitan area. So, um, you know, there's. There's areas. But it gives us a lot of clues when using that data to, you know, better understand, um, tourism, um, to better understand visitor use management, like conflicts maintenance, like, where do we need to spend our time and energy for maintenance? Um, that. Yeah.

Speaker B: So you've got participation. You got good participation estimates. Do you have any. Have you done any studies on the, uh, what the economic impact is of the Superior Hiking Trail to the North Shore? Uh, economy?

Speaker C: Yeah, and we did this thing called it intercept survey, where we stopped people and ask questions about, like, how long are you in the area? Um, was the Superior Hiking Trail, like, your main reason for being here? You know, that sort of stuff. But unfortunately, the way we collected the data a couple years ago was not, like us, uh, statistically valid. And, um, so we do. We're going to reissue the similar survey next year in 2027. Working M with the university on developing the questions, we asked them in the right way so we can get that data. Because I know a lot of people would love to have that information, especially our local visitor, uh, bureaus and things like that, and helpful, um, just telling our story and our impact. But I mean, we have so many great testimonials too, of like, what, what we're seeing on the North Shore. Um, and I think John's like, race. You know, your races are a great example of like, um, economic impact. Like one weekend bringing hundreds of people, um, to. To the North Shore and introducing them to the North Shore. I mean, those are. Those are huge.

Speaker B: Yeah. That's one thing I was going to ask you, John. Um, uh, what do your races mean for the Superior Hiking Trail? How does that help both build the social contract that we were already talking about and increase the economic impact to the local area.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think I'm just fascinated as things progress in the future, to see these overall economic impact studies for the Spear Hiking Trail association, uh, outside of events, just to see what that data says. Because the, the um, anecdotal evidence is just outrageous in some ways. It's just so amazing to see, um, how people connect to interact and then come m back to the Superior Hiking Trail. I mean, I know, I know like dozens of people. I come into contact with people all the time that say I moved to Duluth or I moved to North Shore. And then it's like almost immediately followed by trails.

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker A: It's trails and access to trails. And that's like, that is a deciding factor in why I took this job in Duluth or why I took the leap to move up the North Shore. Um, and it always tying back to the Superior Icon Trail, which, you know, those, these are the waters that I swim in. So I'm probably hearing, uh, maybe I'm hearing outlier stories, but I mean I spend a ton of time up and down the shore, especially between Silver Bay and Lutzen is kind of my, ah, stomping ground. It's where our races take place. It's where I do a lot of work on the drill, a lot of volunteering and a lot of recreation myself. And just about everywhere I turn and see, it's either part and parcel to people's enjoyment, recreation and lifestyle on the North Shore, or at a minimum, it was part of their weekend when they came up to spend a weekend on the North Shore. Whether that was, like Lisa said, a lot of times people don't even know they're on the Superior Hiking Trail, Whether that was going to one of the U.S. forest Service trailheads. But then quickly those loops or those, the access to these spots are Superior Hiking trail. Um, so yeah, it's the impact I think is it's going to be hard to quantify, just like trying to quantify, um, the amount of usage on the trail because of the sheer number of trailheads, because of all the different ways we can access it. But, um, anecdotally I just see it everywhere, all the time, throughout the year. Um, but then when we start to talk about the events that we host on the Superior Hiking Trail, um, as I mentioned, we host two trail running events, uh, races. They're races, but they're more events. There's only a handful of people, quote, unquote, racing. Most people are Participating and challenging themselves and trying to go ah, significant distance point to point in a part of a day or a day or in the case of our longest races, um, over just over two days. Um, but uh, for both our spring and fall race it's not uncommon to have anywhere from 25 to almost all 50 states represented in a single race and international field. And these aren't just people that are all coming from Ohio and Illinois or flat states or plain states. It's traveling from Colorado and Washington state where they have plenty of good single track, um, mountainous terrain to go recreate in. But there's a real draw and a real allure of just our, the northern part of our state, the landscape, um, the reputation of our races in particular. But that's all due to the great volunteer support um, that, that we get for them. Um, and then start uh, talking about Minnesota cities. Just uh, last weekend we had our spring event and we're pushing almost 200m. Minnesota cities are represent. So it's really a place that um, trail runners in particular, because I'm able to speak to that really it is like the pinnacle of anywhere you can go in the state to engage, uh, your hobby or your sport or your craft, however you kind of choose to look at that.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's fascinating too because sometimes I'll run into people on the trail who are training on the spear hiking trail to head out west to a western states um, race. And you know, really if you're gonna train, if you live in Minnesota, in the Midwest, it's where you have to train. Right. If you're gonna head west for a race. So it's really a fascinating um, subculture within the trail community, the trail racing community and they're very generous. I wanted to point that out too. It's like so many of our volunteers, I think at any given point, you know, probably about a, um, on our board, if our board is representative, it's like, you know, about a quarter are trail runners. Um, you know, trail running has grown exponentially in the last, you know, decade plus as a kind of a, um, um, outdoor. Well I would call it. What would you call it? Ah, it's an outdoor sport but it's, it's like it's a lifestyle. Right? Like it's.

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, Superior Hiking Trail is really well positioned for um, trail running as well. And, and like Lisa said, day hiking is when this concept of the, the long distance hiking trail was introduced. And when I was introduced to the hiking trail in 1995, it really was about Backpacking. Right. And backpacking is the, it's a little bit of a, uh, time and gear and resources intensive pursuit. Now that's become a little easier barrier to entry as time has gone on with more access to affordable gear or universities renting gear, uh, or outdoor stores renting gear to users who may want to try backpacking. But I think with the uh, just kind of general pace of life, the amount of time that people that have to engage in activities, that's where we've seen day hiking, um, and trail running increasing in interest over the years. And that's one of the wonderful things about the Superior Hiking Trail is that if you're in Duluth, you uh, have immediate access to all of these trailheads and all these access points into the trail. So you can go um, in in a very short period of time relative to let's say the big mountains out west. You can be in a really, um, really interesting, gorgeous spot that feels well removed from the uh, hustle and bustle of, of a town or a city. And so I think that's really where that's the trail running and day hiking and things like that have, have really grown and um, that the access all up and down the shore where you can park at a trailhead and then just kind of feel like you're in the middle of Nowhere within uh, 20 or 30 minutes is, is such a draw for our trail in particular. And not that other trails don't have that dynamic, but Superior Hiking Trail has that in spades.

Speaker B: Yeah, you mentioned, you mentioned backpacking. Um, I was doing a little research for, for the, this episode and I saw that backpacker, uh, magazine once called the Superior Hiking Trail the second best long trail in the nation. Um, what in your opinion, who were we after? I don't know. I didn't see it.

Speaker A: After.

Speaker B: I was just gonna ask what in your opinion earns it that ranking and is there a part of you that thinks it deserves to be first?

Speaker C: Yeah, um, well, I mean, I think what, what folks tend to be drawn towards, I think, um, one is access. Right. Um, so because we run parallel to the, the North Shore Scenic Byway, um, we have a level of access that's not common in long trails. Um, we're shuttling or dropping cars or doing a bike and hike or whatever. However you're going to get your yourself from point A to point B. Um, it's a lot easier on the Spirit Hiking Trail. I think it's way more accessible for people, um, of different, uh, varying abilities. Um, so as, as we talked about like you can get out for a day hike, you can get out for an overnight multi night or you can, you know we have a lot of people who take on the through hike um, as well. But I think the accessibility to jump on and off on the trail, it creates a little bit of like security that people tend to enjoy. I also think that you know, the landscape and the topography is just really breathtaking. I mean essentially the entire time you're on the trail, um, starting all the way, you know, in Duluth onward, you have panoramic views of Lake Superior. And um, you know you, you hustle and you work for those, um, to, to get to those overlooks, um, and then you descend into these really cool um, you know, creek and ravines, um, that have really cool geology and um, and water, which is you know, another thing that the Superior Hiking Trail has going for it. Um, but I think that the design, the alignment really um, speaks to it. We connect to eight state parks, um, which is very unique as well. So I don't know, I'm curious John, what you would say makes us stand out.

Speaker A: Yeah. As soon as uh, Randolph asked that question, the number one word that popped in my head is access. Uh, I don't. I think you'd have a heart, you'd be hard to press to find another reason, uh, above and beyond access. And I think what really draws people to the sht is that it's a super engaging and super challenging trail. And that especially on the North Shore, um, because the dynamic of the trail is, is the trailheads are in. The trailheads are typically in valleys. You leave the trailhead and you're going to climb up one big huge palisade or bluff after another and you're going to continually drop down to these river valleys over and over again. And um, so you're always starting your next three or four hundred foot climb up a bluff and you get up there and as Lisa said, so not only do they have that good access, easy access, getting to that trailhead, you right out of the gate. Oftentimes you're climbing three or 400ft uphill. It's difficult, it's engaging, it's rewarding. When you get at the top, um, you get a great view up there. Then you descend down the backside and now you're in a river valley. You're next to a gorgeous river and a gorgeous waterfall. And it just goes on that uh, on repeat. And I think there's probably other trails and other places where you can go that have good access, but they don't necessarily have that component of difficulty and challenging terrain. And so I think for people that that combination of, um, those two things really makes it somewhere that people want to go, um, and try. Because if it's not engaging enough, if it's not maybe physically challenging enough or scenic enough, um, you know, you don't, it's, you don't quite have that character, that sense of accomplishment for going, uh, out and checking those places out. Um, I live not too far from, uh, being a Bear Lakes trailhead, which is, you know, probably one of the most wildly popular spots on the Superior Hiking Trail. And it never ceases to amaze me that, yeah, and we know that the rise of social media and pictures and how beautiful it is out there has really drawn a lot of people to that particular spot. But it never ceases to amaze me when I'm out there to think, you know, this is a lot of effort to get these three or four miles, four miles into this, this beautiful photo spot. And so many people are willing to, to subject themselves to those ups and downs and the tough terrain to get out there. Um, and I think that's really a beautiful thing. I know that there's, you know, we do get concerned about how much trail use or impact, but really, um, I think overall it's a really, it's a huge positive. I mean the number of people, they're drawn, they want to see something like that, but it's also not a gimme. They can't just drive their car to the, that site and then peer out on it. And I think, um, that's a really big draw. That it's, that it's that dual, uh, benefit. You have the access, it's really engaging and challenging, challenging to get there and then you have that reward when you're there.

Speaker B: So, um, I looked at it real quick and number one, the number one trail when this was published, which I think was back in the 2000s, was uh, the Wonderland Trail at Mount Rainier. Um, but that's only 93 miles. So it's not even, it's not. Um, and this was a, this was a users poll. Uh, and so this really tells me that you all have the second most rabid fan base amongst folks. Um, which says a lot. I mean that's, that's what you want. You, you, you. We were mentioning that social contract and, and people just feel it like it's part of the community. Um, you want, that's the kind of thing you want to win. Those are the kind of words it's the users, they're who you're trying to impress.

Speaker A: Um, I think hearing a story, a personal story with you about this.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, so in 1995, I was 16 years old and a couple of years leading into that, my brother had gotten into rock climbing and he was going around different parts of the state to go rock climbing. He was going to Barn Bluff and Red Wing, and he was going to Taylor's Falls and some of these spots. And one of his partners had kind of also been into backpacking. My brother is only a little bit older than me, um, and we did not grow up really doing much camping. We certainly didn't grow up backpacking, things like that. And my brother had a subs, had subscriptions to a couple of magazines. He had a subscription to, uh, a climbing magazine. He had a subscription to Backpacker magazine. So for about a year and a half or two years before I ever thought I was going to go on a backpacking trip, there was backpacking magazine in our house. And my brother and I would pour through Backpacker magazine and somewhere, either through word of mouth or I remember sht being in Backpacker magazine, like we were putting this together that this, this kind of backpacking one of mecca is. It's in our state. And we, I don't think either of us had ever been north of Duluth. So it was like a couple of Christmases, you know, some Christmas gifts to, uh, you know, maybe we got a sleeping bag or, you know, we had our, our job, you know, our first jobs where we were saving money. We scraped together enough backpacking year to go on a backpack hiking trip. And we, he said he was a few years older than me. We got in his car in 1995 and drove up to the North Shore and found a trailhead. And this pre Internet, pre, you know, how we knew where to go. And that kind of is speaking to the access. Um, and we ended up on the Superior Hiking Trail for what was again, a very digestible. You know, I don't remember the exact how many trailheads we did, but, you know, it was day one. We can go this first three and a half miles out of the trailhead and there's a, there's like campsites and then we can go to this next trailhead and we took the shuttle and we did all the things and um, kind of speaks to that, uh, that reputation that the trail has had for such a long time. And even pre social media, all this information, it was simply, you know, uh, it was in Backpacker magazine and that's. That's kind of, you know, that's what initially brought me to the, to the trail.

Speaker B: Yeah, well it's, I think it's kind of in your branding as well. It's uh, if you're going to hike on a trail, you might as well hike on the superior one. Right?

Speaker C: I mean that's the one you want to hike on. Thanks Randolph. We'll use that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean you are the superior hiking trail. And so just with the time we have left, I wonder if we could just look uh, at, look at some of the um, activations and, and things are happening around the 40th anniversary. We mentioned this. HTA was created in 1986 where it's amazing that it's been 40 years. Um, and so a few things going on that, that are on my radar that I wanted to ask about is first being, uh, can you tell me a little bit more about the Hike 40 challenge for this?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So every year, um, I got, I guess we started this program during, during the pandemic I believe, um, right around that time encouraging folks to check out different sections of the trail. Um, the idea of kind of spreading people out, um, and encouraging people to explore lesser known sections of trails, um, learn sometimes like we are not all, um, reading, you know, natural history books about the things that you're experiencing on the North Shore. So exposing people to some information about what they're going to interact with on the trail, whether it's geological formation or an old, you know, sort of industrial relic. Um, so providing some hikes that, that provided some context. So this year, um, the hike 40 challenge is 40 miles. Very. It's on your honor of tracking 40 miles, uh, during this year that you can, you know, go out and explore. We have some example hikes that you can do or you can just kind of do your own. You can run, saunter, forage, use the trail any way that you want, but just uh, catalog your miles and submit them to us and then you um, get a commemorative patch, uh, in the mail. It's kind of a fun thing to do as a family. Um, a lot of our Hike 40 or Hike 50 challenges have been focused around uh, families getting out together. It also can be a fun workplace wellness challenge, uh, for folks who might have a little competitive spirit, uh, with their co workers if you will. Um, but just a great way to get people out and to new sections of trail. So this year, um, our hikes kind of focus on some of our milestones along the trail. Um, and, and it's just fun to bring to light some of the maybe lesser known stories and as even though we're only 40 years old, it's amazing. Um, we, you know, can get pretty short hike cited in our history lessons and so it's nice to, to bring some of that information back to our, our users and, and those who love the trail.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And it looks like you've also got a birthday celebration plan for June 6, which is national Trails Day. Um, what should people expect from that and how can they take part in it?

Speaker C: Yeah, this is um, this is a wild and zany idea. Um, much like the idea of you know, creating and building the Superior Hiking Trail itself which is um, on June 6th we have a community wide hike day and uh, birthday parties happening up and down the shore. So uh, we're asking folks to register to hike a section of the trail and our goal is to have every section of the Superior Hiking Trail hiked or ran or sauntered, um, by someone within our community. Um, and you can go at your own pace, you can do your own mileage, whatever is comfortable for you. Um, bring your friends and family, um, make it an event, have um, a picnic, whatever you want to do. Um, but at the end of the day we'll have four birthday parties, um, up and down the trail corridor. So Voyager Brewing in uh, Grand Marais, Bluefin Bay, uh, resort in um, Tafti, um, and then we'll have um, here in Two Harbors, we'll be at Castle Danger and then Ursa Minor, um, brewery, um, company down in Duluth. And we have, it's uh, free and open to all ages. If you come and say that you hiked, uh, that day, you get a I hike sticker, you get some cake, you get some free um, drink tokens and get entered into a lot of raffles. And then the coolest thing I think is that we're inviting um, what I'd call our trail legends there. So people, these founders, the people who are there in the early days, they're going to come out and they're going to be there. You can get to interact with them. So um, the very first thru hiker of the Spear hiking trail, um, will be, I know, at the Ursa Minor location in Duluth. And it's just a fun way to connect um, new users with some of our, the people who truly made the trail a reality.

Speaker A: Awesome.

Speaker B: That sounds like a fantastic event. I um, definitely want to be up there on, on June 6th. Um, two quick questions before two, two more questions to head on before we go. Um, what does the Superior Hiking Trail need most right now from Minnesotans and from the broader outdoor recreation community to make sure it's still thriving, uh, on its 80th birthday.

Speaker A: One thing that dawns on me frequently when I'm, because I'm, I've, I've intentionally built a lot of my life around the Superior Hiking Trail. Uh, starting out is just, yeah, simply wanting to recreate on the trail a lot. But now in the position where I do two annual events that are hosted on the trail. And so I'm engaging before, during and after a spring event and before, during and after a fall event. And then I try to work on a few volunteer projects a year. So I keep intentionally kind of circling back to the trail just through the way that my lifestyle is built. But for me, I think it's really important, uh, for us as leaders, uh, within spear hiking trail community to remember that not everybody is as immersed or has the ability to be as immersed and that um, we're continually hosting a lot of people, day hikers, maybe it's runners or races and they're kind of coming out of the clear blue and brushing up against a trail, coming to the trail for a day they may not know a lot about. Um, may be the only time they ever experience a trail or maybe they're only going to experience a couple of days a year. And to me what that always signals is, um, it might be a lot to ask everyone to get involved, boots on the ground at the trail, so on and so forth. But I think um, becoming a Secure Hiking Trail association member, um, paying the, making the small donation, financial donation to the trail, if you're able, helps to keep um, staff and board and programs and things like that well funded so the mission can be carried forward. And um, that really I think is a core, is a key and core thing because I think we're going to continue to, to get the, the real passionate people that want to work on the trail, that want to spend the time. And it's a unique individual. But um, I don't fret over the idea that oh, we're, it's going to be so hard to keep that element going. But I really think it's just this larger, broader scale thing of um, you know, the nuts and bolts of it. And Lisa probably can't say it as bluntly as I can, but it takes a lot of resources to make this whole thing go and if everyone can chip in a little bit and give the, the board and the staff and the leadership of the trail the tools to rehab Trail, protect trail, all these kinds of things. It gives us the best shot of having a trail that us enthusiasts can use dozens of times a year or those people who just happen across it by happenstance and aren't going to be immersed in the culture. We can create that experience for them and that. And that access going into the future. So, um, those are the types of things that I, I think about frequently when I think about the history of the trail or the future of the trail.

Speaker C: Yeah, I'll, I'll try to follow that. That was, yeah, very eloquent, John. Um, well, I mean, yes, indeed, we do need money to keep it all going. Um, but I think in part that's because that's an ethos that we all, um, share and actually draws people to the trail, um, and creates the spirit of the trail, the trail magic, which is this is fee free. You don't have to pay to play. And there's very few places in, you know, in the state, in the country, in the world in which you can, you can roam freely, um, and you know, just. And connect. Be, um, with nature, in nature, um, part of nature. And so I think that, um, creates a sense of wildness and, and um, freedom that people love. Like that's part of, yeah, the spirit of the trail. Um, but that only comes when those who have means provide, um, support through membership, um, through volunteerism, uh, through things like estate planning, like, uh, making sure that you're like, you know, give a little to make sure the trail is there for the next generation. And, and on that note, I would say there's a lot of ways that, um, Minnesotans can help protect the trail in the future. Um, one is by supporting things like, you know, the lottery funds, um, and that the funds that became that help us, um, protect our land and water, which is the resource. Right. Like, the trail is really a walk in the woods through the resource, which is the land. Um, and that land, while we don't own it all, um, access and keep keeping it pristine and protected is really important. Um, and then for our, I think next 40 years, guaranteed job security is like I said, working on, uh, furthering our trail protection, um, gaining permanent easements with landowners where we don't have them, um, strengthening easements in places. And in some cases, maybe, Maybe we need to get in the game of acquisition and start buying land. Um, that's a really expensive endeavor. Uh, but we know that, um, the trail isn't just, you know, the, the. The corridor. Um, you know, it can't be the 20 foot corridor. It has to be. Uh, what's protected or needs to be protected is the scenic integrity of the trail, which is the viewshed and the vistas. Um, so we need to, I think the future is looking at larger protections of the North Shore.

Speaker B: All right, well, that's a good place to, to call it a day. Uh, I really appreciate yalls time, um, to spend and discuss the Superior Hiking Trail.

Speaker C: Yeah, thanks, Randolph. I really appreciate your work and, um, allowing us to share a story. It's fun to always hear what's on people's minds, um, and answer questions, um, give us information we didn't even know. Like our accolades.

Speaker B: Yeah, gotta track those accolades. Um, yeah. And John, thank you for your time today to tell us about your experience as a volunteer, as a race director on the trail and just amuser.

Speaker A: Yeah, thank you so much for, for hosting us and yeah, thanks Lisa for getting me to, uh, hop on today. Much appreciated.

Speaker B: Special thanks to Lisa and John for joining us in today's episode. A few things worth sitting with after this conversation. First, the Superior Hiking Trail's greatest asset isn't the scenery as particular. As spectacular as that is, it's access. 60 plus trail heads running parallel to the North Shore Scenic Byway mean you can be deep in the woods within 20 minutes of parking your car. That's accessibility. That's what puts it in a class of its own among long trails in this country. Second, this trail exists almost entirely because of goodwill. Over 200 landowners, multiple government jurisdictions, no eminent domain, no entry fees. It works because of a social contract that was built over 40 years between the association, its volunteers and the communities along the North Shore. And that contract has to be actively maintained. Third, if you love this trail, the most important thing you can do is become a member of the Superior Hiking Trail Association. Volunteer if you can. Donate if you're able. The fee free experience people love doesn't sustain itself. And finally, the next 40 years are going to require big thinking, permanent easements, longer and stronger land protections, and preserving the view shed that makes the trail what it. What makes the trail special. That work starts right now. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone who deserves a day on the trail. You can find Explore Minnesota more on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Amazon Music, or just visit us anytime@explore minnesotamore.buzzsprout.com and if the show has been valuable to you, leaving a review goes a long way towards helping new listeners find us. We'll be back soon with more stories from across Minnesota's outdoor recreation landscape. And if you're interested in the Superior Hiking Trail association, you can find everything@superiorhiking.org Explore Minnesota More is produced by Explore Minnesota Tourism and the Department of Natural Resources. Sources thanks again for listening to our episode, and we'll see you out on the trail. It.

Speaker C: Sa. Sam m.

Speaker B: Sa.