Why “Why Should Anyone Care?” Is The Most Important Question, with Chief Marketing Officer Roanne Neuwirth

1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,200 SPEAKER_00: Hi and welcome to Executive Land. 2 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,119 I'm Elizabeth Friedman, and this is where top leaders go off 3 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,880 script to share straight talk and the unwritten playbook about 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:16,239 life in the C-suite. 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,239 For more ideas, visit East SuiteLeader.com. 6 00:00:20,399 --> 00:00:23,120 Now let's dive into today's episode. 7 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,960 Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Executive 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:27,280 Land. 9 00:00:27,519 --> 00:00:33,679 And I am excited because today we have Rowann Newark, who is, 10 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,960 as you will learn in just a minute, not just a brilliant 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,119 chief marketing officer, but also friend, colleague, uh 12 00:00:41,359 --> 00:00:43,200 trusted advisor for me. 13 00:00:43,359 --> 00:00:45,920 And so, Rowann, I am thrilled you're here. 14 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:47,119 I know we're in for a treat. 15 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:48,320 Welcome to the podcast. 16 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:49,600 SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, Elizabeth. 17 00:00:49,759 --> 00:00:52,560 I'm excited to be here and talk about my favorite things with 18 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,000 one of my favorite people. 19 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:54,880 SPEAKER_00: I love it. 20 00:00:55,039 --> 00:00:58,079 And you know, we love to talk all things marketing. 21 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,240 And Rowann, side note, you are the first CMO we've had on the 22 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:02,880 podcast. 23 00:01:03,039 --> 00:01:03,920 Um, right? 24 00:01:04,079 --> 00:01:06,640 We've 25 plus episodes strong. 25 00:01:06,719 --> 00:01:11,760 And so an extra uh welcome for I'm honored to represent the 26 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:12,239 function. 27 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:13,040 We love it. 28 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:17,359 Well, and Rowan, you know, I introduced you as CMO, and of 29 00:01:17,359 --> 00:01:18,239 course, that's really true. 30 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,799 I know in your last role, you were the global um chief 31 00:01:20,799 --> 00:01:22,879 marketing officer for BTS. 32 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,719 You have deep expertise in the B2B marketing space, 33 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,439 professional services marketing in particular. 34 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,359 But what am I missing here? 35 00:01:31,519 --> 00:01:34,079 How well should we be introducing you to our audience? 36 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,879 SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, one of the things that I bring 37 00:01:36,879 --> 00:01:42,319 to bear as a marketer is, you know, how to go to market for 38 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,079 companies that really value relationships, insight, and see 39 00:01:46,239 --> 00:01:47,359 sweet engagement. 40 00:01:47,599 --> 00:01:51,200 And so I get a lot of energy bringing sort of bringing the 41 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:56,159 client conversation in when it comes to building, when it comes 42 00:01:56,159 --> 00:02:00,159 to building gravitas, when it comes to actually, you know, 43 00:02:00,319 --> 00:02:03,280 building revenue, and when it comes to really defining the 44 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:04,319 value of the brand. 45 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,599 SPEAKER_00: And you know, you did that for me in so many ways, 46 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,680 Rowan, because of course that's a huge part of the work I do. 47 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,560 How am I having conversations with the market? 48 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,560 And so you and your team would just provide so much guidance 49 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:18,800 there. 50 00:02:19,039 --> 00:02:22,400 But maybe we can start there because I know this is a huge 51 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,080 part of the work you do, right? 52 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:29,680 Advising not just folks like me, CEOs, people in the C-suite who 53 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:30,560 have to do this. 54 00:02:30,719 --> 00:02:34,000 And so, in the spirit of the unwritten playbook of the 55 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,719 C-suite, what was your experience like having to sort 56 00:02:38,719 --> 00:02:41,039 of hold up the mantle of marketing? 57 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,719 Maybe for folks that were listening, maybe for some that 58 00:02:44,719 --> 00:02:48,639 weren't, give us a little bit of a sense of what it's really like 59 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:49,599 to be a CMO. 60 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,319 SPEAKER_01: Well, it's a great question because I think uh, you 61 00:02:52,319 --> 00:02:55,280 know, I think it's probably there's aspects that are no 62 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,479 different than being another somebody else in the C-suite. 63 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:03,039 Um, and I think, um, but I I guess from a marketing 64 00:03:03,039 --> 00:03:06,960 perspective, it's, you know, there's a lot of challenges in 65 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:07,919 being a CMO. 66 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:13,439 I think one of the ones really is it's not well understood. 67 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,159 It's not a particularly respected role, I think. 68 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:20,240 Um, and I think that, you know, sort of the marketing teams also 69 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:21,439 experience that in the business. 70 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,280 And sort of as a CMO, you're kind of carrying the torch for 71 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,919 your team, your function, but also for the company. 72 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,560 And so it's sort of a lot on your shoulders when you're 73 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,439 spending half your time trying to convince people that 74 00:03:33,439 --> 00:03:36,879 marketing is great while you're trying to, you know, sort of go 75 00:03:36,879 --> 00:03:41,039 to market, build the brand, drive revenue, support sales. 76 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:47,199 And so um it's it's challenging, but it's also um it's fun. 77 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,439 And I think, you know, I I I guess I sort of think, I think 78 00:03:51,439 --> 00:03:54,879 of there's kind of three when you're in the C-suite, I feel 79 00:03:54,879 --> 00:03:58,240 like there's three roles, and I think this is true, what I found 80 00:03:58,240 --> 00:03:59,759 to be true for myself. 81 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,919 First, you're you're a functional leader, right? 82 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,039 So you have to, you're an expert in my case at marketing. 83 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:09,680 I bring the marketing lens, it's part of my job to um to 84 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,360 communicate the value. 85 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,840 Um, and then you're a leader of a team. 86 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:22,319 And um, you know, for me, being a CMO, especially in like 87 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,839 professional services company where the marketing function 88 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,920 isn't what the company does, you know, the people on the team are 89 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,279 sort of very separated from the client work, which I actually 90 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,399 think in places where they're brought in, it's more powerful, 91 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,240 but that's a separate conversation. 92 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,920 Um, so you know, you're you're and so you know, you have to 93 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:46,639 lead this team, set a vision, encourage them, create a career 94 00:04:46,639 --> 00:04:49,759 path in a in a function that often doesn't have a clear 95 00:04:49,759 --> 00:04:51,920 career path because that's not what the company does. 96 00:04:52,079 --> 00:04:55,279 So you have this first you're a functional leader, an expert, 97 00:04:55,439 --> 00:05:00,639 then you're a people leader, and that there's a lot on a CMO to 98 00:05:00,639 --> 00:05:04,399 really make marketing at your company something that's 99 00:05:04,399 --> 00:05:05,759 exciting for your team. 100 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,800 And then your third big role is you're part of a leadership 101 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:09,279 team. 102 00:05:09,519 --> 00:05:12,720 And so there's a whole agenda that the leadership team needs 103 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:17,279 to do together to grow the business, create value, um, you 104 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,839 know, sort of establish longevity and differentiation. 105 00:05:22,079 --> 00:05:25,839 So those three hats, I think, for any functional leader and 106 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,759 for marketer, is are are really all of them are going on at 107 00:05:29,759 --> 00:05:30,240 once. 108 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:31,519 SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah. 109 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,240 Particularly at that C-suite level. 110 00:05:34,399 --> 00:05:37,439 And maybe Rowan, let's break each of those roles down. 111 00:05:37,519 --> 00:05:40,959 And I want to start with the role of you really leading 112 00:05:40,959 --> 00:05:43,759 marketing for an enterprise, for a large company. 113 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,959 And for people listening, whether you work in professional 114 00:05:46,959 --> 00:05:51,199 services or other industries, how do we understand what 115 00:05:51,199 --> 00:05:55,120 marketing leaders are held accountable for, particularly at 116 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:56,160 that C level? 117 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:01,600 End of the day, what do chief marketing officers get paid to 118 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:01,920 do? 119 00:06:02,319 --> 00:06:04,480 How are results measured? 120 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:06,319 SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a great question. 121 00:06:06,399 --> 00:06:10,079 And I think the answer is it varies widely, and that's part 122 00:06:10,079 --> 00:06:11,040 of the challenge. 123 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,600 So and I think it varies by industry. 124 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,680 Um, you know, uh certainly, and then you know, B2B is very 125 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:20,959 different than B2C. 126 00:06:21,519 --> 00:06:27,519 Um, and then B2B SaaS tech companies are very different 127 00:06:27,519 --> 00:06:29,920 than sort of professional services. 128 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,160 So I think it's there's not a single answer. 129 00:06:32,319 --> 00:06:35,759 I mean, at the end of the day, marketing has to be part of the 130 00:06:35,759 --> 00:06:38,319 engine that drives revenue and creates value. 131 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,439 So, I mean, everyone's sort of measured on that. 132 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,800 But I think whether, you know, specific metrics and what um 133 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:52,000 CMOs are expected to do really, really I've really seen it 134 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:52,879 really differs. 135 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,720 And so I think um certainly pipeline, you know, contributing 136 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,279 to pipeline, whether whether marketing is held accountable 137 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:05,040 for closed deals or not, again, depends a bit on the environment 138 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,800 and how how um you know marketing, sales enablement, and 139 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,839 bd work together, because it's different in every company. 140 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,720 So I think the um sort of the that how it's measured really 141 00:07:16,959 --> 00:07:22,000 depends on where it sits and how and the relationship to sales. 142 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,079 And I think in some companies it's it's joined at the hip. 143 00:07:26,319 --> 00:07:28,560 In other companies it's not. 144 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,360 I think the places where it's not joined at the hip, it's a 145 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:37,040 lot harder to actually drive revenue through the pipeline 146 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,120 from the top of the funnel down through. 147 00:07:39,279 --> 00:07:43,839 Um, but I like to, I mean, the way I look at um at so at 148 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,560 marketing is it's marketing is about one-to-many. 149 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:51,360 It's about building, building the brand, creating, you know, 150 00:07:51,519 --> 00:07:56,560 creating the demand, driving interest, and all of that. 151 00:07:56,639 --> 00:08:00,879 And then once you start talking one-to-one, that becomes sales 152 00:08:00,879 --> 00:08:03,040 enablement and then business development. 153 00:08:03,279 --> 00:08:07,199 And so if you have kind of a tight chain of those three 154 00:08:07,199 --> 00:08:10,480 steps, then you know, everyone's accountable for their piece of 155 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:11,199 the pipeline. 156 00:08:11,279 --> 00:08:16,000 But ultimately, I think sales and marketing together are are 157 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,680 you know, should be held accountable for the bottom line. 158 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:20,560 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 159 00:08:20,879 --> 00:08:21,519 Yeah. 160 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:23,680 I can speak for myself, Rowan. 161 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,399 Certainly in my business, it's my biggest light item. 162 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,560 It's it's just critical. 163 00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:35,039 Um, and so that's why, you know, help us understand for those 164 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:38,879 organizations where, and this may be frankly a rather dark and 165 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,080 you know, depressing way to put it, but like we don't even have 166 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:43,600 marketing in the organization. 167 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,240 What would we be missing? 168 00:08:46,879 --> 00:08:50,480 What wouldn't happen if if marketing was not in that 169 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,960 C-suite, was not driving results in the way that you've 170 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:55,600 described? 171 00:08:55,919 --> 00:08:57,519 SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a great question. 172 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,039 Um, and I think there's organizations that ask that. 173 00:09:01,279 --> 00:09:05,919 I mean, you know, from from my view, particularly uh in this 174 00:09:05,919 --> 00:09:10,399 world of AI, where um I think there's a lot of companies that 175 00:09:10,399 --> 00:09:13,120 don't particularly understand or care about marketing, think that 176 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,960 you can just get, you know, get get a little AI engine to build 177 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:18,720 some blogs and you'll be all set. 178 00:09:18,879 --> 00:09:22,240 And what you really miss is the differentiated voice. 179 00:09:22,399 --> 00:09:27,600 I mean, right now, differentiation um and relevance 180 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:28,720 matter more than ever. 181 00:09:28,879 --> 00:09:31,200 And that that's not just for professional services. 182 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,600 I mean, there's a million companies doing a million 183 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:34,080 things. 184 00:09:34,399 --> 00:09:39,279 And the more everyone is relying on AI to talk about what they do 185 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,639 and to sell their products and services, the noise is just 186 00:09:42,639 --> 00:09:45,919 getting louder and there's no differentiation whatsoever. 187 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:52,720 And I'm seeing some interesting roll back around to um to, oh, I 188 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,879 guess actually we need a human to figure out so who are we 189 00:09:56,879 --> 00:09:58,000 trying to talk to? 190 00:09:58,159 --> 00:10:01,519 Um, without marketing, you don't have anyone sort of defining, 191 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:02,720 well, so who are we talking to? 192 00:10:02,879 --> 00:10:04,080 Are you just talking to everybody? 193 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:05,279 Is everybody a buyer? 194 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:10,159 If everyone's a buyer, your message is going to be diluted 195 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:11,919 at best case scenario. 196 00:10:12,159 --> 00:10:12,559 Yes. 197 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:15,919 And I think, you know, the other, you know, we're certainly 198 00:10:15,919 --> 00:10:20,559 seeing with AI that the idea of differentiation, of making sure 199 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,000 you're talking to the right people and not selling 200 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:29,360 everything to everyone is going to become even more critical uh 201 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,720 as as the noise in the marketplace gets louder and as 202 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,879 more people think they can do things themselves. 203 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:40,000 So if you want to differentiate your product or service, uh you 204 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,399 really need marketing and strategic marketing. 205 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,080 You don't need a junior level email marketer to tell your 206 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:46,320 story. 207 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,080 You need someone that really can step back and understand where 208 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,879 you've come from, where you're going, what what are your 209 00:10:52,879 --> 00:10:54,399 clients' challenges? 210 00:10:54,639 --> 00:11:00,720 Um, I think the other thing that I see it people miss when when 211 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,519 they don't have marketing bringing in the voice of the 212 00:11:03,519 --> 00:11:08,320 customer, it's so easy to talk about yourself and your product. 213 00:11:08,639 --> 00:11:09,360 SPEAKER_00: Oh my god. 214 00:11:09,759 --> 00:11:11,919 SPEAKER_01: You know, you see we've had those conversations 215 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:12,240 right now. 216 00:11:12,399 --> 00:11:17,200 Yes, you know, the sale, you know, salespeople that just just 217 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,960 have to talk about how great their ideas are or the product 218 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:21,200 is. 219 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,480 And the fact of the matter is, you know, part of marketing's 220 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:30,480 role is to get um experts and sellers to be able to say, why 221 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:31,679 should anyone care? 222 00:11:31,919 --> 00:11:32,159 unknown: Right? 223 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,000 SPEAKER_01: Like you and I have had those conversations where 224 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,679 you know we have an idea and it, you know, it's part of my role 225 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,639 to say, so why does this matter to a buyer? 226 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:41,440 Right. 227 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,960 And if you don't have that, you're just gonna be talking at 228 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:45,600 your buyers. 229 00:11:45,759 --> 00:11:50,480 And, you know, I mean, companies, you know, may I think 230 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:56,559 if you have I think the the more the more you're the the higher 231 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:01,759 the stakes of who you're selling to, the size of the deals, um 232 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:09,440 and the the sort of the kind of the the the challenge of 233 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,720 defining the value of what you do, the higher those are and the 234 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,960 harder it is, the more you need marketing. 235 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,960 Um because you know, think about like a tennis ball. 236 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,120 I mean, marketing can do some really fun things about you know 237 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,559 promotion and getting you to love your brand of tennis ball, 238 00:12:26,879 --> 00:12:29,360 but it's I mean there's not a lot of differentiation in one 239 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:30,559 tennis ball to another. 240 00:12:30,879 --> 00:12:34,480 Maybe they're different colors, maybe there's a super new bounce 241 00:12:35,039 --> 00:12:36,240 technology, right? 242 00:12:36,879 --> 00:12:42,720 But but if you think about sort of you know big ticket, um, big 243 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:47,440 ticket technology, big ticket consulting, um, you know, high 244 00:12:47,519 --> 00:12:53,120 like the um large large SaaS systems, you know, that if you 245 00:12:53,279 --> 00:12:57,120 you really need someone to come up with so what's the story that 246 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,600 that an executive buyer is gonna care about? 247 00:12:59,759 --> 00:13:03,840 And if you don't have marketing, your story is gonna be led by 248 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:05,279 product developers. 249 00:13:05,759 --> 00:13:06,159 SPEAKER_00: Yes. 250 00:13:06,399 --> 00:13:11,120 SPEAKER_01: And it's hard for it's really hard to define value 251 00:13:11,919 --> 00:13:14,480 without the marketing lens. 252 00:13:14,799 --> 00:13:17,600 SPEAKER_00: Oh, I I mean, I couldn't agree more. 253 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:22,480 It just becomes such a critical uh element of how you run a 254 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,720 business and everything that you said Roman. 255 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,799 It's being able to really pinpoint your differentiated 256 00:13:28,799 --> 00:13:32,399 value, how that gets articulated, the way we weave in 257 00:13:32,399 --> 00:13:37,279 the voice of the customer, how we listen to our market to shape 258 00:13:37,279 --> 00:13:40,879 and drive current and future products and services. 259 00:13:41,039 --> 00:13:42,000 I mean, we can go on. 260 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,320 There are so many reasons why this role not only must exist, 261 00:13:46,399 --> 00:13:49,519 but must play a prominent role within the organization, 262 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,360 particularly given some of the other trends and themes that you 263 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:54,240 were touching on. 264 00:13:54,399 --> 00:13:58,000 And so when you're let's talk about that one of the other 265 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,279 aspects of the role you touched on, which is your own leadership 266 00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:03,679 over the function, sort of leading the team. 267 00:14:03,919 --> 00:14:07,120 So now we've got an organization that maybe has, like you and me, 268 00:14:07,279 --> 00:14:10,320 we get, we've drunk the Kool-Aid, we understand the 269 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:10,799 value. 270 00:14:11,039 --> 00:14:14,080 Maybe you've got organizations where they don't know 271 00:14:14,399 --> 00:14:17,120 essentially how to partner well with marketing. 272 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:22,559 How do you help your team help the organization partner 273 00:14:22,799 --> 00:14:25,120 effectively, particularly when maybe you've got an organization 274 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,919 saying, well, I'd love to, I don't have time, or hey, great 275 00:14:27,919 --> 00:14:30,639 idea marketing, maybe in six months, that kind of stuff. 276 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,039 SPEAKER_01: So I love this because I mean, this is this is 277 00:14:33,039 --> 00:14:35,440 every this is like this is life every day, right? 278 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,240 And and you and I have had conversations about this, and 279 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,399 you yourself have always been a great partner. 280 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,639 Um so I think you know, this some of this will resonate. 281 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,519 I mean, I think that is the biggest challenge. 282 00:14:45,679 --> 00:14:51,120 Um, and part of it is, you know, part of it is helping to, you 283 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:55,360 know, that part the the role of being the the the drumbeat that 284 00:14:55,519 --> 00:14:57,200 that establishes the value. 285 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,440 That's why, like, that's why the the CMO is sort of the biggest 286 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,120 face to the inside organization because that help helps to 287 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:06,320 establish the credibility. 288 00:15:06,399 --> 00:15:11,200 So when the team goes out to partner, you know, there's some 289 00:15:11,759 --> 00:15:14,159 there's there's some gravitas behind them. 290 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:15,519 So that's part of it. 291 00:15:15,759 --> 00:15:18,960 I think some of it is, you know, it's interesting. 292 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:23,120 One of the things that I've also reflected on is in many ways a 293 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,919 CMO, and I think this actually is true about other C-suite 294 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,720 roles as well, is sort of a chain, you know, you have to 295 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,080 know how to drive change and transformation because part of 296 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,440 what you're talking about is getting people to change how 297 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:36,320 they behave. 298 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:41,519 You know, it's it's establishing creative uh credibility and then 299 00:15:41,759 --> 00:15:44,960 um you know, sort of making it exciting to partner. 300 00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:45,759 unknown: Right? 301 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,799 SPEAKER_01: It's like how do you how do you get these busy 302 00:15:48,799 --> 00:15:53,759 executives to s to shift from, you know, I don't have time for 303 00:15:53,759 --> 00:15:57,039 you, to looking forward to kind of doing an interview with your 304 00:15:57,039 --> 00:15:59,279 team for a PR article, right? 305 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:04,720 Or you know, spending an extra two hours working on the point 306 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:09,840 of view with the marketing team, you know, on the team, because 307 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,639 they're like, oh wow, you know, when you guys set in on that 308 00:16:12,639 --> 00:16:15,759 meeting, we thought about that point of view so differently. 309 00:16:16,159 --> 00:16:19,600 It really created, you know, a whole new way that we're gonna 310 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,759 talk about this in the market, and we wouldn't have had that 311 00:16:21,759 --> 00:16:22,399 without you. 312 00:16:22,639 --> 00:16:27,039 I think so there's sort of there's being the being the face 313 00:16:27,039 --> 00:16:32,639 of it, there's also um one of the things, one of the ways that 314 00:16:32,639 --> 00:16:36,480 I've always sort of approached that change, change management 315 00:16:36,799 --> 00:16:40,799 challenge is finding you find some, you know, you find some 316 00:16:40,799 --> 00:16:42,639 excited people to try it with, right? 317 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,240 You you know, you don't try to engage everybody at once. 318 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,240 There's always one or two really great people who are dying to 319 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:55,679 try something new, um, who you know really care about sort of 320 00:16:55,679 --> 00:16:57,679 going to market with a new point of view. 321 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,360 I mean, I think some of the work that I you know did at BTS 322 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,960 around sort of the business buyer segment, that team, those 323 00:17:05,039 --> 00:17:09,119 those business leaders, they really were committed to going 324 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,359 to market with it to with this new client base. 325 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:12,880 And so they were super excited. 326 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,839 They're like, well, what like just tell us what we don't know 327 00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:16,720 and tell us how to help. 328 00:17:16,799 --> 00:17:17,599 Let's just do it. 329 00:17:17,759 --> 00:17:18,000 SPEAKER_00: Yep. 330 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,480 SPEAKER_01: And so if you know, if you if you kind of target 331 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,599 those and then you bring your team along so that they see, oh, 332 00:17:23,759 --> 00:17:25,599 okay, I understand. 333 00:17:25,759 --> 00:17:29,839 You know, you find you find the early adopters, you find the 334 00:17:29,839 --> 00:17:33,759 people that that are innovative, that want to try, and then you 335 00:17:33,759 --> 00:17:36,240 can, and then you have, you know, you get them to be your 336 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:36,799 champion. 337 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:41,119 And then you have the team see that, oh, okay, it's that's how 338 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:42,000 you know you build. 339 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,480 And and you, and I think patience, I mean, one of the 340 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,119 things, and and I, you know, you know a number of the people on 341 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,319 my team, and I spend a lot of time talking about the long 342 00:17:50,319 --> 00:17:50,880 game. 343 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:51,839 SPEAKER_00: Yes. 344 00:17:52,079 --> 00:17:55,920 SPEAKER_01: Um, and also I think the other the other piece that 345 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,519 you have to do is help people understand what battles to fight 346 00:17:59,519 --> 00:18:01,200 and what battles not to fight. 347 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:02,480 SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah. 348 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,720 SPEAKER_01: Because what you're talking about, I mean, there's 349 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:09,119 always battles and um, and you know, the with the skeptics, you 350 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:12,880 know, and and and as you build credibility, there's also, you 351 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,240 know, you after you've done this for a long time, you can much 352 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,200 more readily assess which battles are gonna get you 353 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,759 somewhere and which are just gonna waste your energy. 354 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,519 And there'll be times when my team will say, Well, you know, 355 00:18:25,599 --> 00:18:27,759 why didn't you go after so and so for what they said? 356 00:18:27,839 --> 00:18:31,359 I said, Look, so this is what I'm trying to get out of this, 357 00:18:32,079 --> 00:18:36,480 whatever this is, whether, you know, we need to execute this 358 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,240 campaign on X, and we need, you know, we need some really 359 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,759 powerful content on X, Y, and Z to do that. 360 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,599 And, you know, I know that if we go this route, we're gonna get 361 00:18:47,599 --> 00:18:47,839 that. 362 00:18:48,079 --> 00:18:51,599 That person is gonna be a detractor, but if we spend a lot 363 00:18:51,599 --> 00:18:55,279 of time trying to convince them rather than just moving, moving 364 00:18:55,279 --> 00:18:57,599 forward and getting something out of the marketplace, we're 365 00:18:57,599 --> 00:19:01,119 never gonna help drive revenue and we're never gonna move the 366 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:01,440 needle. 367 00:19:01,599 --> 00:19:06,240 So I think there's also that, you know, guidance about when to 368 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,720 fight, when not to fight, you know, and also uh a big thing is 369 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,799 how to say yes and how to say no. 370 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,759 And I think and I think actually C-suite leaders, you know, the 371 00:19:17,759 --> 00:19:22,240 whole thing about decision making, that's it's it's one of 372 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,200 the I think I think people don't realize that before you get to 373 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,359 the C-suite, how much of being a C-suite leader is about decision 374 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:29,680 making. 375 00:19:30,079 --> 00:19:34,880 Tiny decision making, big decision making, accountability 376 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,839 for the decisions, um and whether that's sort of within 377 00:19:39,839 --> 00:19:44,240 your function, across the leadership team, whether you're 378 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,640 coaching and encouraging your C-suite peers on the question of 379 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,240 decisions and accountability. 380 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:55,680 And so I think that um that that really's important to help your 381 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,000 team sometimes they can't make them, and sometimes they also 382 00:20:00,079 --> 00:20:03,519 they just need to learn how to make them themselves and and 383 00:20:03,519 --> 00:20:05,759 then providing the support. 384 00:20:05,839 --> 00:20:10,319 Um, because that's another piece that I see my role is is setting 385 00:20:10,319 --> 00:20:16,400 the bar high, but providing all the support that the team needs 386 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:17,680 to reach that bar. 387 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,000 Because you can't have one of the, you know, you can't do 388 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:20,240 both. 389 00:20:20,319 --> 00:20:22,720 You have to do, I mean, you can't do one or the other, you 390 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:23,839 have to do both. 391 00:20:24,319 --> 00:20:25,519 SPEAKER_00: You you really do. 392 00:20:25,599 --> 00:20:29,519 And what you're giving us here, Rowann, is such a great playbook 393 00:20:29,519 --> 00:20:32,480 for marketing leaders, certainly, but really any 394 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,480 functional leader that exists within an organization where all 395 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,240 the things that you touched on, it's continuing to try to 396 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,480 partner effectively, drive the value, recognizing again, we 397 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:45,680 have competing priorities. 398 00:20:45,759 --> 00:20:49,200 And so I love the recommendation of, right, it's not about, you 399 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,519 know, everything everywhere all at once, but let's find those 400 00:20:53,519 --> 00:20:56,960 pockets of the organization as a starting point, particularly it 401 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,880 sounds like when we're piloting something new, early adopters. 402 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:06,400 I think also the idea of right, how we are here to enable and 403 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,759 support effective decision making at that executive level. 404 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,839 And yet, you've and again, you're you're helping your team 405 00:21:13,839 --> 00:21:17,119 be able to do that, and you yourself have to be one of those 406 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:18,000 decision makers. 407 00:21:18,079 --> 00:21:22,000 And I think you're right, it's decisions all the time. 408 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,640 Although, you know, one of the things you said, I want us to 409 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,200 come back to this saying yes and no. 410 00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:29,039 Tell us a little bit more about that. 411 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:30,480 What did you mean there? 412 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:35,519 SPEAKER_01: So, well, you know, I mean, obviously, and I mean, 413 00:21:35,599 --> 00:21:38,400 one of the, you know, sort of what's ha what's interesting is 414 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,759 as as you know, the the function starts to create momentum and 415 00:21:41,759 --> 00:21:44,079 people start to want to be part of it, which happens, you know, 416 00:21:44,799 --> 00:21:47,440 you know, when you do all these things right, you create some 417 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,559 pull, just like you, just like marketing does externally for 418 00:21:50,559 --> 00:21:52,160 the company, it also works internally. 419 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:52,880 Right. 420 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,720 Um, and so you know, that and there's and there's always, you 421 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,519 know, marketing is one of those functions, and I think this 422 00:21:59,519 --> 00:21:59,759 also. 423 00:22:00,319 --> 00:22:02,799 Goes to some of the challenge in the C-suite that everybody 424 00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:04,640 thinks they have an opinion on it. 425 00:22:04,799 --> 00:22:07,839 And you know, their grandmother watches the podcast and they 426 00:22:07,839 --> 00:22:09,920 come and tell you how to do the podcast differently. 427 00:22:10,079 --> 00:22:13,440 You know, their nephew sort of saw a TikTok video, so they said 428 00:22:13,599 --> 00:22:15,839 we should throw out that campaign and do a TikTok video. 429 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,960 And you know, you have all this nonsense from the entire 430 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:19,599 organization. 431 00:22:20,319 --> 00:22:23,519 And so, you know, on the one hand, you really want 432 00:22:23,519 --> 00:22:26,880 enthusiasm, and the more people think about marketing, the 433 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,200 better they're going to understand it and better support 434 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,279 it and provide the expert sort of content to help the engine 435 00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:33,599 go. 436 00:22:33,759 --> 00:22:38,000 But it also means that you can get too many, you know, there's 437 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,599 too many things that people want. 438 00:22:39,759 --> 00:22:42,000 Some of them are really stupid, but you can't say they're 439 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,119 stupid, or certainly more junior people on the team can't say 440 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:46,000 they're stupid. 441 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,599 Um, I mean, I could say they're stupid, but they can't. 442 00:22:49,759 --> 00:22:51,920 You know, there are these meetings with important people, 443 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:57,680 and um, and so there's kind of this, so there's but on the 444 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:02,079 other hand, it's you have to be so careful not to become the no 445 00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:02,720 function. 446 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:10,480 And so it's sort of the, you know, figuring out how I mean I 447 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,599 uh one of the things that I always do when there's too many 448 00:23:13,599 --> 00:23:17,839 of these things is okay, so which of these actually is tying 449 00:23:17,839 --> 00:23:22,319 back to what the business strategy and the CEO are caring 450 00:23:22,319 --> 00:23:23,200 about right now? 451 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,799 Like which of these things actually ties to that? 452 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:31,359 Um, and it and um if they all do, then you have a you know you 453 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,920 have a separate issue of sort of how to fix them. 454 00:23:34,079 --> 00:23:38,160 But I think that that sort of teaching that, you know, 455 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,960 teaching the lens of think about does this just matter to this 456 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,440 person or does this matter to the business? 457 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,000 And and how to assess that. 458 00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:52,079 And um, you know, that's an important skill to kind of teach 459 00:23:52,079 --> 00:23:55,200 people, and it also gives some transparency. 460 00:23:55,279 --> 00:23:57,680 And then when you say to someone, well, so we can't work 461 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:04,160 on this project right now for you, because you know, the AI 462 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:09,440 implementation rollout is happening, and you know, that's 463 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:10,960 a big priority for the business. 464 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,519 So your you know, your idea for this really cool article on X 465 00:24:15,519 --> 00:24:18,079 that doesn't have anything to do with that, we have to table 466 00:24:18,079 --> 00:24:18,319 that. 467 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:19,200 SPEAKER_00: Right. 468 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,599 SPEAKER_01: Um but but there's also, and as you know, you know, 469 00:24:23,759 --> 00:24:26,319 I mean, I think one of the interesting things that you and 470 00:24:26,319 --> 00:24:29,119 I have often talked about, just about leadership in general, is 471 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,720 this learning the sort of teaching of learning and then 472 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:38,000 teaching the next the next group how to say yes and no in a way 473 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,839 that is um productive. 474 00:24:40,079 --> 00:24:45,279 Yes so like you can say, you know, um no not right now, no 475 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:51,200 not me, you know, no not this, um, and and so there's that side 476 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:51,599 of it. 477 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:58,559 And then there's the just helping helping find you know 478 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,640 finding the the backbone to set the priorities against. 479 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,920 Because I think because it's I think it sometimes it's hard for 480 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,440 and I think this is true on any function, whether it's HR, 481 00:25:11,599 --> 00:25:15,759 whether it's IT, you know, you have your functional priorities. 482 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,039 Like these marketers, you know, the team's really smart. 483 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,079 My team's amazing. 484 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,559 I know they're amazing, they're there because they know what 485 00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:27,200 they're doing, but they don't always, you know, things that 486 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,160 are a priority from a marketing perspective, and even things 487 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,920 that we know work really well, we might have to set aside 488 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,359 because the business has different priorities. 489 00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:40,240 And sometimes those priorities aren't right. 490 00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:44,559 And that's what another interesting challenge on that 491 00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:50,160 I've encountered in sort of in the C-suite is when it's clear 492 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:58,160 that there's something amiss with the big priorities, and you 493 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,400 know, sort of weighing the responsibility, like that's 494 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,440 that's a lot of responsibility to just sort of weigh, like, so 495 00:26:05,599 --> 00:26:07,920 how much do I let that filter down? 496 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,400 How much do I try to influence it? 497 00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:12,240 How much do I let it go? 498 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:18,000 Um, so I think that, you know, that's another way to help the 499 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,640 team kind of build those relationships. 500 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,319 And then I just the other thing I just think is, you know, in 501 00:26:24,319 --> 00:26:28,160 many ways, I mean, my uh the my first 10 years of my career were 502 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,160 in in consulting as a consultant, you know, 503 00:26:30,319 --> 00:26:31,440 client-facing consultant. 504 00:26:31,519 --> 00:26:35,599 And I think it's one of the best ways to build a career, whether 505 00:26:35,599 --> 00:26:37,920 you want to stay in consulting or not, because it teaches you 506 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,160 about everything you just about everything you need to know. 507 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,400 And one of the things it teaches you is around, you know, sort of 508 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,519 the client focus and the shoes, you know, putting yourself in 509 00:26:47,519 --> 00:26:50,160 the shoes of the people that you're working with. 510 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,400 And in some ways, internal functions are act kind of like 511 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:55,599 consulting firms. 512 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:56,640 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 513 00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:00,640 SPEAKER_01: Um and that, I mean, I think, you know, I think the 514 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,599 problem it's really a partnership. 515 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,319 Um, I think it's it's not a vendor relationship, it should 516 00:27:06,319 --> 00:27:07,359 be a partnership relationship. 517 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,839 I think sometimes marketing and IT and HR get treated like 518 00:27:11,839 --> 00:27:16,559 they're vendors, but it's really um, you know, if you think about 519 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,400 your role on the marketing team, you know, maybe you're the 520 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,839 content creator and trying to build some really powerful blogs 521 00:27:23,839 --> 00:27:28,960 and external articles, you're partnering with those experts. 522 00:27:29,599 --> 00:27:32,640 And, you know, you have an expertise, they have an 523 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,240 expertise, neither of you knows how to do what the other does. 524 00:27:36,319 --> 00:27:39,759 And so your partnership is what creates the value. 525 00:27:39,839 --> 00:27:45,599 And and helping the team learn how to do that well and be 526 00:27:45,599 --> 00:27:48,960 confident to do that is part of, I think, part of the role. 527 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,119 And again, I think that's true whether it's IT, um, whether 528 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,359 it's HR, whether it's finance. 529 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,200 SPEAKER_00: So interesting, the consulting element. 530 00:27:59,279 --> 00:28:02,799 And of course, Rowan, you know, I majority of my career has been 531 00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:03,839 in consulting. 532 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,920 And, you know, it's always interesting when you're 533 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,559 partnering with an organization, they've got a set of objectives 534 00:28:08,559 --> 00:28:11,279 or priorities, and you're sitting on the other side 535 00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:15,119 thinking, um, you know, you have questions about those, right? 536 00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:18,400 You respect your client, you respect the company, but you're 537 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,200 wondering about some of those and what's the way to voice that 538 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,200 given the role you're there to play. 539 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,160 And so that certainly came to mind as you were describing, I 540 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,960 think sometimes what the dynamic can feel like, particularly if 541 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,119 you're wearing a functional role and you know, you've got a 542 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,119 perspective and a point of view. 543 00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:35,200 But I think it would be easy. 544 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,079 And of course, the key difference is you are a member 545 00:28:38,079 --> 00:28:40,559 of that team, you are part of the organization, but those, 546 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,880 let's not pretend there are those sort of challenges to 547 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:45,599 navigate. 548 00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:49,920 And how do you voice those things when when you're in a 549 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,079 functional role at that C-suite level? 550 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,880 It's a little bit of a different dynamic. 551 00:28:55,119 --> 00:28:57,440 SPEAKER_01: Um it really is. 552 00:28:57,599 --> 00:29:03,839 And, you know, and I think and I think the answer, the answer 553 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,319 different, you know, one of the I was reflecting a little bit of 554 00:29:06,319 --> 00:29:13,200 this, and I think, you know, one of the things that is so uh an 555 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,440 interesting fact to think about is, you know, not every C-suite 556 00:29:17,759 --> 00:29:18,880 is the same. 557 00:29:19,359 --> 00:29:24,240 And so what might work in one C-suite environment is not gonna 558 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:24,720 work in another. 559 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,839 So there's sort of first there's kind of how you were before you 560 00:29:27,839 --> 00:29:30,559 got to the C-suite doesn't necessarily get you there, but 561 00:29:30,559 --> 00:29:34,240 there's also, you know, CEOs are vastly different. 562 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,279 Um, and how they want to work, their ability, their leadership 563 00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:42,240 abilities and skills are vastly different. 564 00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:50,160 And so um and the kind of environment that a CEO creates 565 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:56,720 with the leadership team, you know, I've seen the gamut, so 566 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:57,359 have you. 567 00:29:58,240 --> 00:29:58,400 unknown: Right. 568 00:29:58,720 --> 00:29:58,880 SPEAKER_01: Right. 569 00:29:59,039 --> 00:30:03,839 I mean it's and so I think that it um I think that the answer um 570 00:30:05,519 --> 00:30:12,319 the the one thing I've learned is that um sometimes sometimes 571 00:30:12,319 --> 00:30:14,880 you need to just let it go. 572 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,160 And even when you know it's not right, and even when you see 573 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:25,839 things hurtling down a path that is leading to destruction, 574 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:32,480 there's a point at which there is zero appetite or ability to 575 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:33,039 hear. 576 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,160 And if that's the case, I mean I think the hardest thing is 577 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,160 sometimes having to let it go. 578 00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:43,440 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 579 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,319 SPEAKER_01: That's I think that's harder than speaking up, 580 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:47,519 in my opinion. 581 00:30:47,839 --> 00:30:48,480 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 582 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,759 It really does come down to that so often, Rowan, and right back 583 00:30:53,839 --> 00:30:55,039 to your earlier comment. 584 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,720 What what are the hills to die on? 585 00:30:56,799 --> 00:31:00,559 Where do you just you really do have to walk away and play the 586 00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:03,200 bigger game, the longer game, as you say. 587 00:31:03,519 --> 00:31:07,759 And you know, to your other point, uh every C-suite really 588 00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:10,480 is different for all the reasons we've discussed, including even, 589 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,160 is there a chief marketing officer who sits at that level? 590 00:31:14,319 --> 00:31:18,079 And presumably, if there is, right, we want to invite in the 591 00:31:18,079 --> 00:31:20,720 view and perspective of marketing, for example, on the 592 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:20,960 team. 593 00:31:21,119 --> 00:31:24,319 But once again, the culture of the organization of the team 594 00:31:24,319 --> 00:31:27,680 drives so much of those types of decisions. 595 00:31:28,079 --> 00:31:32,160 Although one of the things that I've seen you talk about, and 596 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,640 certainly, you know, everyone should check out Rowan's 597 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,880 LinkedIn profile because you've got some great videos and 598 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,400 thought leadership and talking about just the space of 599 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,799 marketing today, because of course it is so dynamic, 600 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,759 particularly with the, you know, just what AI has done to disrupt 601 00:31:47,759 --> 00:31:50,480 even just how we think about leveraging the tool. 602 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:55,119 But beyond that, Rowan, the role of even CEOs in marketing, their 603 00:31:55,279 --> 00:31:57,599 organizations, having a voice and a presence. 604 00:31:57,759 --> 00:32:02,720 And so curious about what you're seeing there, some of the things 605 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,920 that you've been discussing online, what would be helpful 606 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,960 for us to know, regardless of what size organization we're in, 607 00:32:09,119 --> 00:32:11,839 even our role that maybe we should be thinking about? 608 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,079 SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, it's it's a great question. 609 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:19,279 And I think what what is interesting is um sort of what 610 00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:23,920 have I what I've observed uh in part, I think, driven, well, 611 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:29,440 actually driven very largely by what's happening with AI search, 612 00:32:29,599 --> 00:32:36,160 the LLMs, you know, there's um first of all, with all the AI 613 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,400 noise, having a differentiated point of view is now more 614 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:41,359 important than ever. 615 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,640 So things like quote, content or thought leadership are actually 616 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,960 um very serious and very elevated in terms of how you're 617 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,079 going to differentiate. 618 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,799 And what is also very interesting is that these the 619 00:32:56,799 --> 00:33:00,079 LLMs are what they're doing is they're really they're searching 620 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,759 particularly LinkedIn, interestingly, um, in terms of 621 00:33:03,759 --> 00:33:06,319 to really to test the credibility. 622 00:33:06,559 --> 00:33:09,759 Um so they're and and what they're doing is so when they 623 00:33:09,839 --> 00:33:12,480 when they're going to include your company in the search uh 624 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,119 for particular ideas or or challenges or product or 625 00:33:17,119 --> 00:33:21,599 services, they're going to be scraping things like LinkedIn to 626 00:33:21,599 --> 00:33:24,319 not only look at what the company's saying, but actually 627 00:33:24,319 --> 00:33:27,119 what's happening is they're looking at what the leaders are 628 00:33:27,119 --> 00:33:30,720 saying and how active the leaders are on LinkedIn and what 629 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:36,640 those leaders are saying about not just about puppies and and 630 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,160 products, but are they actually credible thought leaders too? 631 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,480 And this is a really interesting shift that actually then raises 632 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:49,839 the raise seriously raises the bar for CEOs and the rest of the 633 00:33:49,839 --> 00:33:51,759 C-suite to be active on LinkedIn. 634 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,599 I mean, for a long time, I've seen C-suite leaders sort of 635 00:33:55,599 --> 00:33:57,920 ignoring the need to be out there. 636 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,839 And um there, you know, I've worked with some CEOs that um 637 00:34:02,079 --> 00:34:05,119 one of the CEOs, you know, that we have in common in our past, 638 00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:10,159 she really understands kind of the role of the CEO as sort of 639 00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:12,000 also chief thought leader. 640 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,639 And um, but there's a lot of CEOs and other C-suite leaders. 641 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,079 I mean, this meant you know, CFOs, CTOs need to worry about 642 00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:21,039 this too. 643 00:34:21,599 --> 00:34:25,280 But they need to be out there and visible as credible experts 644 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:25,760 also. 645 00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:29,920 And not, it's it's no longer just about their own career or 646 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:35,760 profile, it's actually impacting how their companies are found 647 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,079 via um AI search. 648 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:42,480 And one of the things that is is sort of quickly becoming clear 649 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,400 in the data is AI search is a small part of how your company's 650 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,679 found, but the conversion of people that find you that way is 651 00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:50,880 dramatically higher. 652 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:51,519 Oh. 653 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,039 So um, so it's becoming, so it's like, you know, I mean, it's 654 00:34:55,039 --> 00:34:58,239 again this, I think there's this whole move to niche everything, 655 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:03,280 you know, niche services, niche products, targeted, you know, 656 00:35:03,519 --> 00:35:04,239 clear. 657 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:11,519 Um, and CEOs that are sort of not understanding that they 658 00:35:11,519 --> 00:35:14,960 actually need to be out there too, are um, and this is not, I 659 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,079 mean, this is across the board. 660 00:35:16,159 --> 00:35:19,039 This I think it you know matters even more for smaller 661 00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:22,239 founder-led firms, obviously, because um with a you know, 662 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,440 founders kind of are the voice of their company. 663 00:35:25,679 --> 00:35:29,199 But I think it even matters in large companies now because it 664 00:35:29,199 --> 00:35:34,159 that's how that's how the company is being is being judged 665 00:35:34,159 --> 00:35:34,719 and found. 666 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,960 And and I think that in what's interesting is so it's a big 667 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:39,840 expectation. 668 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:45,519 I think it's also a place where those C-suite leaders need to 669 00:35:45,519 --> 00:35:48,159 kind of understand that marketing is their, you know, 670 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,960 can be their savior in this in this case. 671 00:35:51,199 --> 00:35:51,519 SPEAKER_00: Right. 672 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:52,000 SPEAKER_01: Right? 673 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,320 Because it's you know, I mean, not everyone's gonna know how to 674 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,599 do that, you but you have to be smart enough to ask for help. 675 00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:00,719 SPEAKER_00: Yes. 676 00:36:01,039 --> 00:36:02,079 That's right. 677 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,440 Well, and so Rowan, when you think about someone in the 678 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,280 C-suite listening to this who wants to be searched and found 679 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:10,800 in the way you're describing, right? 680 00:36:11,039 --> 00:36:14,719 Provide that level of visibility um and just awareness that their 681 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,920 their company um offers. 682 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:19,920 What would you suggest to them? 683 00:36:20,079 --> 00:36:22,880 Is this just about posting ideas on LinkedIn? 684 00:36:23,039 --> 00:36:24,559 What could that look like? 685 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,639 SPEAKER_01: Well, I think, you know, it's all of those things. 686 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,519 And again, this is something it's worth getting some help on, 687 00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:33,039 but I think it's there's, you know, what the uh and also all 688 00:36:33,119 --> 00:36:35,920 the algorithms on LinkedIn have changed dramatically too. 689 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,039 And so they're um since November they did some real shifting 690 00:36:39,039 --> 00:36:42,320 around and they're really looking for insights, ideas. 691 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,320 You know, it's not just commenting this, you know, great 692 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,480 post, it's saying something about the post that indicates 693 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:51,519 what you know about. 694 00:36:51,679 --> 00:36:55,280 Um so there's you know, it's it's it's interacting with 695 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,400 others, it's posting, you know, video content. 696 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,960 I mean, I mean, I think Elizabeth, you're a you're a 697 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,079 poster child for all the right things to do on LinkedIn. 698 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,760 Um, and but it's but I mean it's just so interesting. 699 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:13,360 So if you know, if if a if a CEO started sort of doing a little 700 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:18,800 weekly video state of the, you know, her her perspective on the 701 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,400 state of the market or the state of whatever that is connected to 702 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,719 what her clients care about, those kind of things like they 703 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,400 have massive impact. 704 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:36,800 Um and so the other thing is um it's you know it does have to be 705 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,440 thoughtful and it also has to be relevant. 706 00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:43,599 I mean, I've also seen the rise of um, especially there's some 707 00:37:43,599 --> 00:37:46,719 younger founder CEOs that I see that are they they're all over 708 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,639 this, the sort of the podcasting idea or the you know weekly 709 00:37:50,639 --> 00:37:52,079 video interview thing. 710 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,599 But they're kind of they're sort of talking about all sorts of 711 00:37:55,599 --> 00:37:58,880 random things that are of interest to them, and that's 712 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,519 great, but we it's it's not relevant. 713 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,039 So everything has, you know, so like if you think about again 714 00:38:05,119 --> 00:38:09,760 back to you being the poster child, you know, you your all of 715 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:14,239 your content is entirely relevant and related to your 716 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,159 message and how you help people. 717 00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:22,639 So, you know, I I I was, I mean, I was there was a um CEO of a um 718 00:38:23,119 --> 00:38:27,840 it was like an advisory firm, a leadership advisory firm, and he 719 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,519 was interviewing somebody who does content creation at a 720 00:38:31,519 --> 00:38:32,800 marketing agency. 721 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,960 And I mean, that's personally interesting to me because that's 722 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,199 my world, but like what does it have to do with leadership? 723 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,239 It had the the episode had zero to do with leadership, it had 724 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,679 zero if I were a client of this person, I wouldn't have 725 00:38:45,679 --> 00:38:46,079 understood. 726 00:38:46,159 --> 00:38:50,559 Like, so what am I what am I supposed to take away? 727 00:38:50,639 --> 00:38:53,760 Like, how is I I don't understand why you're talking 728 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:54,719 about content. 729 00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:00,239 Um, so I think that's another piece um for executives that um 730 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,519 I mean the the the scary side is that you have to say something, 731 00:39:03,679 --> 00:39:08,079 you have to say it often, but the less scary side is that you 732 00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:10,159 know you know your business, right? 733 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,480 You know your business, you know your clients. 734 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:20,000 You know, really nobody in the C-suite should be uninformed 735 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,679 about what their clients care about. 736 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,840 Even if they're like even you know, even if you're a CHRO, a 737 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:30,079 CTO, CFO, you you know, you should be up on your clients. 738 00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:32,480 SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, yes, Rowan. 739 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,280 SPEAKER_01: And so talk about those. 740 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:36,639 Like you can talk about those. 741 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,840 You're you're a senior leader, you can talk about leadership 742 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,719 and connect it back to what your clients care about. 743 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:44,000 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. 744 00:39:44,639 --> 00:39:45,360 Oh wow. 745 00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:48,239 I mean, all of this is so important. 746 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,840 And it really starts with, I think, the idea of you know, the 747 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:57,840 role of executives as marketers and how does that look for them? 748 00:39:58,079 --> 00:40:01,920 But how important that is now becoming even more so, to your 749 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:06,159 point, with the right advent of AI, particularly in the search 750 00:40:06,159 --> 00:40:08,000 world, to their companies. 751 00:40:08,159 --> 00:40:13,119 And so companies that don't um really create, I think, a level 752 00:40:13,119 --> 00:40:15,840 of expectation, maybe accountability across that 753 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:20,079 senior executive leadership, and then have a chief marketing 754 00:40:20,079 --> 00:40:23,119 officer and a marketing team to provide guidance, that 755 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,519 partnership leadership to guide that activity. 756 00:40:25,679 --> 00:40:28,639 It's like at your peril because you and I, of course, know 757 00:40:28,639 --> 00:40:31,599 companies where they do understand this, they readily 758 00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:32,239 embrace this. 759 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:32,800 Oh, yeah. 760 00:40:33,199 --> 00:40:38,079 Rowan, I was thinking about um Ravi Kumar, CEO of Cognizant, 761 00:40:38,159 --> 00:40:39,519 who is on this podcast. 762 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,719 He's one, you know, for those that don't know, you know, 763 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,639 certainly to check out his work and the work of his outstanding 764 00:40:46,639 --> 00:40:50,559 marketing team, because to your point, it's all very aligned. 765 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:55,199 And it's it's very much in service of really being able to 766 00:40:55,199 --> 00:40:58,719 illuminate the important work they're doing, their point of 767 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,400 view and perspective in AI. 768 00:41:00,559 --> 00:41:04,800 And oh, by the way, they're not the only game in town, but I, 769 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,360 you know, there's such a commitment to I think getting 770 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:12,239 that story out and Robbie's commitment that I just see a 771 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,280 real differentiated, highly effective approach there. 772 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,039 And so it's just an example, I think, of what you've been 773 00:41:19,039 --> 00:41:19,920 highlighting here. 774 00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:23,039 SPEAKER_01: And and he's a great example too, because it's, you 775 00:41:23,039 --> 00:41:28,159 know, he's so um, well, he's an I mean he's a very engaging 776 00:41:28,159 --> 00:41:31,199 human being, and and and that's you know, he's so he's he's very 777 00:41:31,199 --> 00:41:36,159 skilled, but it's also so clear about his passion and how he 778 00:41:36,159 --> 00:41:38,800 really, how he really understands it. 779 00:41:39,039 --> 00:41:43,920 You absolutely know when you listen to him, watch him, that 780 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,199 he totally understands what matters to his clients. 781 00:41:47,519 --> 00:41:51,679 He totally, you know, and and he really has a vision and sort of 782 00:41:51,679 --> 00:41:56,559 a really authentic sense of how to improve their lives. 783 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,480 And so it's very compelling, you know. 784 00:41:58,559 --> 00:42:01,840 I mean, it's all very aligned, but it, but he sort of, because 785 00:42:02,159 --> 00:42:08,880 he is able to combine right message with like his his 786 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,760 personal passion and conviction, and then some you know, like 787 00:42:14,079 --> 00:42:18,480 really tight, insightful information, that little trio 788 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,840 makes that content so uh impactful. 789 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:22,960 SPEAKER_00: Yes. 790 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:23,920 Oh, yes. 791 00:42:24,079 --> 00:42:27,119 And I mean, we've had a number of CEOs and leaders on the 792 00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:30,880 podcast, more to come, who I think also model this. 793 00:42:31,039 --> 00:42:34,639 And not all are in the C-suite, by the way, Rowan, but I think 794 00:42:34,639 --> 00:42:39,679 they are appreciating um the more that I can bring in to your 795 00:42:39,679 --> 00:42:42,800 point these different elements and then put them out in the 796 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,440 world in a way that is helpful, that is of service. 797 00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:49,760 It benefits my organization, it benefits me, it helps people see 798 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,719 the incredible value we're creating, whether you're a 799 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,639 potential customer or an employee. 800 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:55,840 It's like, right? 801 00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:01,119 It's just the so what of why we exist and why we do the work we 802 00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:01,360 do. 803 00:43:01,519 --> 00:43:06,079 And so being able to see leaders model how we communicate that so 804 00:43:06,159 --> 00:43:09,840 what and convey it, it's not just important for the market, 805 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,239 but for your own people internally. 806 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:17,360 SPEAKER_01: It's you know, actually, like and I think it 807 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,599 actually to, you know, if you're thinking about sort of what you 808 00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:25,760 know, what it takes to be in the C-suite, I mean, absolutely, you 809 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,599 know, if you're someone who's out there building your personal 810 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,639 expert brand, that is not gonna hurt you. 811 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:34,159 SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right. 812 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,039 It's not gonna hurt gonna hurt people. 813 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,440 Yes, and good timing, Rowan. 814 00:43:39,679 --> 00:43:42,559 You know, certainly uh we've talked a lot about shifts in the 815 00:43:42,559 --> 00:43:42,800 market. 816 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,159 We know, right, we've talked about how senior leaders really 817 00:43:46,159 --> 00:43:48,000 can advocate for themselves and their careers. 818 00:43:48,079 --> 00:43:51,119 So this is also so helpful on a personal level. 819 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,840 And maybe on that note, Rowan, before we wrap up, talk to us a 820 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,639 little bit about sort of personally what's going on with 821 00:43:58,639 --> 00:43:58,800 you. 822 00:43:58,960 --> 00:43:59,760 What are you looking forward to? 823 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,119 to where are you focused next in your work? 824 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,920 SPEAKER_01: Well so you know it's a great question because I 825 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:11,599 think I mean as I reflect on kind of marketing right now it's 826 00:44:11,679 --> 00:44:17,440 you know it's in some ways it's a really depressing time but in 827 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,800 other ways it's very energizing because I think what what I'm 828 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:26,719 seeing quickly emerge from the AI tsunami is that actually the 829 00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:30,320 things that make me really energized and the things that I 830 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,800 know matter so that's client relationships, smart great 831 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:40,159 insights, um you know being able to tell powerful stories and 832 00:44:40,159 --> 00:44:44,960 then communicate them in the way that matter and then building 833 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:46,159 the engine to do that. 834 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,239 Like that absolutely matters now more than ever. 835 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:55,039 And the piece I think that I'm most excited about is this whole 836 00:44:55,039 --> 00:44:59,599 thing around how trust has bubbled up to be one of the most 837 00:44:59,599 --> 00:45:04,079 important things to differentiate brands, companies 838 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,119 and leaders in this AI age. 839 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:13,679 And so it makes me very hopeful about a a better world. 840 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:19,440 And also you know I see that kind of my perspective the you 841 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:24,159 know the perspective I bring to to marketing is one that's going 842 00:45:24,159 --> 00:45:28,639 to um to continue to be important in really 843 00:45:28,639 --> 00:45:33,199 differentiating what you know what companies are doing and how 844 00:45:33,199 --> 00:45:34,639 they can reach their clients. 845 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:40,000 So you know I'm in myself sort of I love I particularly love 846 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,639 working with um advisory and consulting companies that you 847 00:45:44,639 --> 00:45:47,679 know have are sort of founder led and are looking for their 848 00:45:47,679 --> 00:45:51,840 next level of growth and I think you know there's such an 849 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:58,159 aptitude and a um appetite out there from a lot of those 850 00:45:58,159 --> 00:46:00,719 leaders to so you know how do we do this? 851 00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:05,440 And and and it's a great time to you know leverage AI for the 852 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,920 volume but lean into the things that have always differentiated 853 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:14,239 companies with their clients and differentiated leaders with 854 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:19,039 their people and so I I'm hopeful and excited about kind 855 00:46:19,039 --> 00:46:23,599 of what what's coming next for the world with uh you know with 856 00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:25,519 AI and beyond. 857 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,280 SPEAKER_00: You said it Rowan well I know the difference 858 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,840 you've made in so many organizations and leaders and um 859 00:46:34,159 --> 00:46:38,159 just reminding all of us me included right to believe in the 860 00:46:38,159 --> 00:46:42,000 value of the message and then let's really try to get it out 861 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:42,239 there. 862 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,679 And I I just don't want to leave this conversation without 863 00:46:45,679 --> 00:46:49,760 underscoring just the work that you and your team always did to 864 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,079 be that encouraging voice. 865 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,840 You know and the truth is you know we're talking about 866 00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,119 marketing and the importance of getting out inside companies but 867 00:46:59,119 --> 00:47:02,400 the truth is in today's environment we want the best 868 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,800 ideas the ideas that help the world to be the ideas that we 869 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,000 get to hear. 870 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,039 And so marketing helps. 871 00:47:11,679 --> 00:47:16,400 And so for all the reasons we want the great marketing people 872 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,320 to be wildly successful. 873 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,519 And so Rowan I just can't thank you enough for being with us 874 00:47:21,519 --> 00:47:22,000 today. 875 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,840 Listen everyone you got to check out Rowan's um incredible 876 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:26,800 LinkedIn profile. 877 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,159 Speaking of LinkedIn Rowan and so we'll link to that in the 878 00:47:30,159 --> 00:47:34,000 show notes but thank you for today's conversation and all the 879 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,559 ideas about marketing you shared with us in the audience. 880 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,199 SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much Elizabeth I mean I think 881 00:47:39,199 --> 00:47:43,840 the you know you're you really sort of exhibit kind of the kind 882 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,840 of partner the kind of leader the kind of founder and CEO that 883 00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,480 that is able to drive so much value from the partnership uh 884 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:53,280 with marketing. 885 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,400 And so uh you're you're an example that others should take 886 00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:59,840 and I think you're you know a shining example of of what to do 887 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:00,239 right. 888 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:01,920 SPEAKER_00: So I love it. 889 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:06,000 I'll remember that one Rowan thank you so much thank you 890 00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,920 thanks Elizabeth well that's all for today in ExecutiveLand. 891 00:48:10,159 --> 00:48:12,960 Thanks for listening and if you're looking for more check 892 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:16,960 out my website eSweetleader.com where you'll see all kinds of 893 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:21,119 free resources and take the free executive readiness assessment. 894 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,159 It shows you exactly where you're strong and where to focus 895 00:48:24,159 --> 00:48:25,840 next in your own leadership. 896 00:48:26,079 --> 00:48:30,000 And don't forget subscribe to this podcast so you never miss 897 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:30,880 an episode. 898 00:48:31,039 --> 00:48:33,199 I'll see you next time in Executive Plan