From ‘You’ll Never Make It’ to the C-Suite: Dr. DeRetta Rhodes, EVP & Chief People & Culture Officer, The Atlanta Braves

Hi, and welcome to Executive Land. I'm Elizabeth Friedman, and this is where top leaders go off script to share straight talk and the unwritten playbook about life in the C-Suite. For more ideas, visit East SuiteLeader.com.

Now let's dive into today's episode. Hi, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Executive Land. I am thrilled to be joined today by Dr. Doretta Rhodes.

Today, Doretta is the Executive Vice President and Chief People and Culture Officer for the Atlanta Braves organization. And yes, those World Series champion, Atlanta Braves baseball team here in the United States. And so, Doretta, welcome to Executive Land. Thank you so much.

It is such a pleasure to be here with you. Well, I am thrilled, and I want everybody to know, I think we are in for a really candid and open conversation. And I say that because for those of you watching, I'm holding up a copy of Doretta's book, Courage of Voice, Empowering Women to Open Professional Doors. And it is outstanding.

And one of the things I love about the book, uh, Doretta, is honestly your honesty and your candor. And I want to just jump right in, if you don't mind. And I want to read a sentence if that's okay. Because I want all of you to get a sense for Doretta's voice.

Umong the experiences you share about your own life, personal life, professional journey. You talk about the experience of getting your dissertation. And one of the things that you said was I would not let the ugly noise being shouted at me divert or defeat me. I'd be damned if I did not become Dr.

Doretta Rhodes. Yes. Oh, that's so good. Tell me, tell us about that because it was just, I thought, well, that is some real determination.

And so, what was behind that phrase in the book? The great question. And I will tell you there, when I think about my whole entire journey, took me seven years to complete. And in the time of those seven years, there's several things that happened.

I changed jobs three times, I got divorced, and my grandmother died. And that's really pivotal for me because she was such an inspiration for me in terms of the things that I would do. And so as I think about that journey and things that would happen, there were so many obstacles. I mean, I had professors that would say to me that I wasn't committed, that I was going to be all the dissertation.

I was, it was all of these things that were culminating into this was not going to be for me. And I'll never forget the one experience that I had. It was a professor that was talking to me specifically about chapter three in my dissertation. And he said to me, it doesn't appear to me that you're committed because you didn't quit your job.

And I looked at him and I said, That's a fair point. But I never went into the fact that I have two small sons at this point in time and I'm in the process of possibly going through a divorce. Quitting my job was not an option, but quitting this dissertation process was not an option either. So for me, it was one of those things, and I'll never forget that conversation, Elizabeth, when I drove back from Athens.

So I was getting, I got my doctorate from UGA, and I was driving back and forth from Metro Atlanta to Athens, Georgia. I was driving back after that conversation. I remember getting into my bed when I got home with all my clothes still on. And I thought to myself, as I went back and forth in sleep and thinking about what my grandmother would have said to me as well, that I got up the next morning and said, that was just one conversation.

Like, this is not the end. So the funny story about that though is my major professor who became such a champion for me through this process, she was supposed to hood me at my graduation. And she ended up having to go out of the country to South Africa the day of my graduation. I get in line and I'm standing with my hood, and the very person that told me that I would not get my doctorate had to hood me that day.

Oh, that's good. So at the end of the day, but you know, when you're going through this and you and and it is, it is noise that is telling you you can't or won't do something. And I for me it was important. And the other thing I have to always describe for people, I did not go back to get my doctor so you could call me Dr.

Rhodes. I did not. That was not my driving motivation. My driving motivation was that I wanted to have the credibility when I walked into a room that I could talk to and speak to the body of work that I do as a practitioner.

That's what became very important to me. And so it had nothing to do with, oh, now I'm Dr. Rhodes and I have a PhD. It was none of that.

It was for me credibility and validity of me being able to be in the rooms that I'm in. You know, one of the other things I'm really struck by, and you share a lot about, I think your learnings and insights through the dissertation process, but just what you brought forward in this book about the experience of being a black executive woman in corporate America. And I'll tell you, Doretta, reading it, and um I'm almost embarrassed to say this to you how many times my jaw was like on the floor.

Like, what who would have the audacity to say that? How would that happen? And I think the kind of survival mode that you, and I know you also share the experience of other um women in the book, had to just had to go through. And I think for people that maybe uh because it's maybe not their lived experience, maybe they're naive, you know, all sorts of reasons, uh what would you want people to know about that time in your life and maybe to the degree to which this persists today for you personally?

So I think that's a great question. And it's it's interesting when I started going through because if you decide with anything, everything is a process, you have to think about it from that standpoint, right? And I as I went through every part of that lived experience, the one thing I think for me was that the lens that I had was the lens I see through. So it didn't matter, like I I I can't talk to you about something different than what it was for me as a black female.

And by the way, as I was going through this process, I got divorced, and then I felt like I had this scarlet D on my chest whenever I would walk and talk to somebody about something. That now, not only had do I have this as a black female, I'm a single mother, and all of the other things that go along with what that describes you as. And it came down to a point that I really do believe, and this this has something to do with who my grandmother was, and even my mother to this day.

So, to give you some background, my grandmother she lived in a very small farm town in Arkansas, and I would go to that farm town every summer to spend my time with her. My grandmother had her degree in education, and so she was a school teacher in her community, and so and she was very revered. Not at not at seven or eight or six, do you think about your grandmother being revered? You just know people liked her, right?

Yeah, and everybody had her in kindergarten. So everybody grew up with my grandmother. So when we would go to church or to the grocery store or to the bank, everybody knew my grandmother. And she was a very small, petite woman, but she was very like when she spoke, she never screamed, she never yelled.

But when she spoke, people paid attention. And so I remember drawing on what I used to see my grandmother do and the strength I realized she had as I was growing through my experiences, that she was formidable. Like everything she did was absolutely amazing. And so the one thing as I started going down this path, and my grandmother would say this to me like again, small farm town, she knew all the kids.

There was a small girl group that I used to try to hang out with. Somebody got mad with me, they talked about me. I came home, I was crying about it. And my grandmother said, What somebody says about you is none of your business.

You just keep on doing what you're doing. And I think, to be honest with you, Elizabeth, as things started happening to me, had I not had that foundationally, it's easy to be very broken by what people say. Now, I will say to you, I have them like their records in my head. And so it's like, okay, I remember that someone said that I would not be a leader.

So what are what am I going to do to ensure that I can make sure that that's not going to be my story? Or someone said I wasn't going to graduate with my doctorate. How can I ensure that that's not going to be the story that you've already written about me? And so I think that because of that became that grit of, oh no, no, no, no, that's that that's not going to happen now.

It may not necessarily happen the time that I want it to, and it may not be an easy path. Like it really wasn't. But I will tell you, I am so grateful for the good and the bad that happened because I am thankful in terms of where I am today and still humbled that I get to sit in the seats that I get to. I get to have the opportunities to have the conversations, but it all has to do in my mind with the grit that my grandmother gave me to continue to move forward.

I'll be damned if I'm not going to be doctors or yes. But you know, I and I want to say there's a lot of wonderful stories. I think even just about your family and and all that they gave you growing up. So I can appreciate just all the ways that that must have just given you strength in some of those tougher moments.

Um one of the other things you talk about in the book, which I thought was a really interesting concept, is the idea of being a free agent. And I'm wondering, what does that mean? Maybe explain that idea. And um is that something that you would encourage us to think about, particularly folks in more senior executive roles.

You know, it's so funny to me. So funny now. The the interesting thing that I will say to you about being a free agent, and I and it, and it's funny because it's apropos, because now I'm in sports entertainment, right? Right, exactly, exactly.

So it kind of matches what what that experience is. The one thing I think I learned very early on from a gentleman that was a mentor of mine that you are providing a commodity. And as you continue to grow in your career and develop and get experiences, all you're doing is putting more into what your tool belt is, right? Because you are providing a commodity, that commodity comes out to your salary and all the things that that is.

And at the moment, and this is a hard conversation oftentimes to have with people because I when I when I saw things were not necessarily going the way that I want. Not that I didn't get promoted when I wanted to or any of those things, but that I was not growing and I knew that that environment wasn't the best for me, I made very specific decisions about okay, this is not my destination. This is great where it is right now, but I too have something to offer, and somebody else will be willing to pay for what I have to offer.

And so when you start thinking about that as more of this is a transaction, and we both are getting something out of this transaction, and what does that mean it is, then you can put a better value on what you feel like you can provide and what you can ask for. This is what I will tell you. Was I always like that? No, ma'am.

Like there were times where I think I've sold myself very short because I was afraid that I wasn't gonna be recognized or get the promotion. I was afraid that I was going to fail. Like those, there are times where I should have walked in and said, I want to get this salary and did not do that. Have I gotten better with it?

Yeah, with age. And so now I really want to talk to people that are mint-level career, thinking about what your value is. And you really are, you really need to think about quantifying what that is. Your value is associated with your experience, with your education, with what you can offer.

Like if I'm coming in to provide a service and you're going to pay me for that service that I'm providing you, there's an exchange. That's what I mean about being a free agent. You have to be able and to be willing to say, I know these are the things that I can offer in this exchange. And that in this exchange, my expectation is you're going to provide me this.

And we're going to always go back and forth on some things. If I'm gaining more, if I'm learning more, then that exchange looks different every time I sit down and have a conversation. But you have to be willing, in my mind, to know what that is that you bring and be able to have that very specific conversation around that. Wow.

I I am so glad we've recorded this, Doretta, because it's such a common question on the minds of look, the very talented senior leaders, senior executives that I get to work with. And I love being able to have this conversation with you because not only through your own lived experience, but again, everybody remember, right? Doretta is also the chief people officer for an organization and has years of experience throughout human resources. And so what are the mistakes that you have seen, particularly at those senior executive levels, folks make maybe in defining their value when they should or maybe should not be having what I will call the free agent conversations, even to redefine their value within their organizations.

What if what would you advise us? Great question on advising. What I would say to you is I can tell you about my failed experiences. Okay, let's go.

Tell us. I think for me, and it this is, and I talk about it in the book too. So when I made the decision to leave the YMCA of Metro Atlanta, so I was their chief people officer. I had gained that when I got into the like I became the CPO when I got there, but I went from SVP to EVP in front of that.

And when I came to, when I started having conversations with the Atlanta Braves, the one thing that I was excited about was like, oh my gosh, because I had been internal broadcasting, this was kind of a you know full circle moment. I was coming back into an environment with which I was used to. The one oversight that I made when the offer letter came to me is I did not ask questions about the title. And the title was SVP of HR.

And so I I remember I remember the conversation, and I remember vividly because this happened over the holidays. My husband and I were driving to Charleston, which is my favorite place to go for the holidays. The offer came through during that time. And when the head hunter called me and said, Oh, we're so excited, it's the offer of, and then he said the title.

And I said, That's the title, and he said, Yeah. I said, kind of surprised. I said, Maybe I didn't ask enough questions about this. He said, Well, no, no, no, we can go back and ask the question if you are expecting something different.

I said, Well, I'm leaving a CHRO job, I don't want to take a step back. So he went back and asked the question. I ended up having it with who became one of my bosses. And what he said to me was, Well, I can't bring you in as a CHRO.

It is an SVP role, but you can call yourself the head of HR, however you want to dictate that. And I think for me, I was angry with myself, more so than anything else. I hadn't asked enough questions, I hadn't delved into the fact that that was a value position for me, and that was important for me, but I hadn't, I hadn't articulated that. And here I was sitting where I had already accepted the position, and here I am in a title that in my mind was less than the title that I had coming in.

So I came into the door, I kept that in the back of my mind. And again, angry, I was angry with myself. And this is one of the things if we talk about how do you make sure you don't make that mistake that I made, right? Ask all the questions, like ask all the questions, write down exactly what is important for you as you were talking about transitioning and going into different roles.

Is it title? Is it money? Is it exposure? Whatever it is, ask all the questions.

And I didn't, Elizabeth. And so I walked into the position in 2019. We went through 2020, and that was a very for everyone around the world, it was a very different experience. But I feel like I was able to show value in the role that I was in, and I was promoted in 21 to see EVP C H R O, our chief people officer.

And I think that had I let that debilitate me too. So as I walked into the role and had to make decisions like, okay, you now this is where you are. Yes, you made the decision to come. Yes.

So all you can do now is work through that, and you work your ass off to do the things that you know can show value, and the other things will come. I'll never forget, and I have to tell the story about how I got promoted because it was not on my radar. Like I was so heads down at this point in time. We had gone through COVID, I was building the team from an HR perspective, called in something different, um, people capital as opposed to HR.

And I'll never forget, I had a very, very dear girlfriend of mine who she and I were on our HR journey together, and she had left, she had breast cancer, she was a survivor, she left, she became a counselor, and so she then, the year of 2020, was diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer in January. So, and she was just a force, like she was so amazing, she was so good at what she did. Like she was, and I will never forget as we were going through this journey, because again, this is 2020, so I couldn't go see her in the hospital.

It was very arduous to have, you know, to engage with her. I get a phone call, and the day of this phone call, it was in November, and it was the very same day that I was having my one-on-one with my boss. Had no idea what was happening in this conversation. It was November of 2020.

And that morning, her husband called and said that she was transitioning and that they would allow us to come see her at the hospital. So I call my, I called my admins, my CEO's admin, and I said, Hey, listen, I'm not gonna be able to make his meeting at 10. I'm gonna go see my girlfriend, but I do want to continue to do my one-on-one at four because there were some things I needed to make sure I covered off with him on. And so she said, Okay, not a problem.

Are you sure? I said, Yes, I still want to do the call at four. So I went and saw Stacy, and we got to the hospital right when she transitioned. So I was able to see her before they moved her out, and I was a mess.

I was an absolute mess. And um at four o'clock, I, you know, was on the phone and I had my agenda. My boss says to me, Hey, he said, This probably isn't the best day to do this. And I'm thinking, what else could happen today?

And so I said, Well, okay, but let's get started. And he announces my promotion to me on that call. Wow. And I said, when I got off the phone with him, again, wasn't expecting that.

And I remember I've been sitting in this title that I thought, oh my gosh, and I was just heads down working, wasn't expecting that. And I remember getting off the phone and I remember saying, and my girlfriend's name was Stacy, I said, Stacey, this was all about you. You're the reason why. So for me, again, it reminds me to have the conversations I need to have as hard as they are to have, because what you don't want are regrets.

You can ask the question and they can tell you no, and that's okay. Because the moment they say no, you then can make a very different affirmative decision around, okay, this probably is not my destination, and I'm a free agent, and I can figure something else out. But in that instance, I never asked the question. And so, because of that, that's one lesson that I hope people really think about.

Like you, you have to ask the question, and you may not get the answer that you want, but at least you don't feel like you've shortchanged yourself because you never asked the question. Oh, a hundred percent. I couldn't agree more. And I love the way that you know that story also becomes about the legacy of this, you know, beautiful person in your life, Joretta.

I mean, you know, but but the no regret is so powerful to me. And I'll tell you, I I'd love to get your reaction also for folks that are currently inside company. Companies in roles and because I I work with folks that say, Elizabeth, I never asked. I just said yes.

And now they're years in. And they're they're afraid maybe to approach. I mean, we have leaders, we know, right? They'll ask and they'll be direct.

And so we can also talk about sometimes, you know, hey, you know, turn down the volume a little bit. But what would you say to those folks who they're they're in it now? And so now what do they do? Is it the same same kind of approach you would recommend for them?

So when you're when you're in it now, there are lots of things I always say that I want people to do. I need you to do an inventory of what is the most important today. So the and the reason I say that and have that conversation is because when I was a single mom, because I got divorced when my sons were eight and ten. And so when I was a single mom and the stability of what I needed was that job at that time, like I could take all the other stuff that was happening, but as long as I could pay for baseball, because that's what they played, and it wasn't cheap, as long as I could make sure that they didn't have a lifestyle change because I got divorced, there are a lot of things I tolerated in that moment, right?

There are a lot of things that I said, okay, this I'm gonna put bumper rails around this. This is what I'm this is what I'm going to do for now. But I also know in the back of my mind, and the other thing that I always do, so I keep a vision journal. I'll have to show it to you.

I keep a vision journal, and in that vision journal, I write those things that I know I want to get to, right? Whether it was me finishing my book or me speaking or me, whatever it was. And so buying the convertible, I wanted like I put everything in my vision book with pictures, right? And so that kept me grounded if I was sitting in situations that I was not getting my best out of the work situation, or it wasn't the best leader at the time, I had a vision and I said, okay, I can tolerate this, but this is we're gonna put this in a box and we're gonna always be looking to this.

And I think that helped me in making decisions at the right time that was appropriate because there were just things that I couldn't do at the time when I was a single mom and my sons were younger. When they got to the point that they were a different age, I got the opportunity to go on assignment to Hong Kong, and I remember it very vividly because my oldest was turning 16 and my youngest was 14, and my parents were very willing to help support me when I was going back and forth to Hong Kong.

And so, and it was a second assignment, it wasn't an expat, I was only there for half a year, and I remember I was able to do that at that point because of the age of my sons and the fact that I had created a village around me and that I was able to do that. When they were eight and ten, I couldn't have done that, right? But that experience that I got was so invaluable that when I made the decision to leave Turner Broadcasting, I had gained this amazing second experience that was international that helped me move into other roles.

So a lot of times I think you have to take inventory of where you are and then make the best decision because that does not mean that that again is your destination. Nothing ever has to stay the same. And you can own that. That's when I do think the lived discussion around being a free agent becomes critical at those very specific moments that you need to make decisions.

Yes, yes. But you know what I love also, it's this is not like a set it and forget it. I mean, what I'm hearing from you, Doretta, is right, you revisit this. You've got, I I love the idea of the vision journal as just a way to kind of keep what's important to you and sort of what energizes you alive and in front of you.

Um, because I do think, right, I'm thinking again about scenarios where I know leaders where they had a conversation. Oh, okay. Let's see it. Come on, like what can you show us?

Because that's awesome. And you have it like at the office, everybody. She she is not like putting this away. This is not like hidden away in a drawer somewhere.

That is so great. Yep. So I put everything in there, like gold stuff, and I do it year to year. So I'm able, I'm gonna tell you what's so fascinating.

I can go all the way back. I started this in 2015, um, and I can take you all the way back to like in 2019, 2018. My vision was to write my book and be a speaker, and so yes. Oh my gosh, everybody, there's literally a cute little cutout of a woman in front of a podium.

Sidebar, everybody check out Doretta's 10x talk because it's great. Wow. But you know, that's I I just need to talk about that because I think so often it's sort of showing up to work. And how in charge are you of kind of your energy, your focus, and your life day to day?

And so that is a beautiful example of just being deliberate and intentional with why you get out of bed. How else do you use that vision journal? I'm curious. Like, so it's at the office.

Do you like look at it in between a meeting? What happens? And so you will appreciate this from a coaching perspective. There's a gentleman that knew me many years back.

Um, and it's so funny because I think the other thing you want to always think about too is those people that have been instrumental for you in your life and that you stay in touch with them because there are so many different people that they view me very differently than I see myself. So when I'm having a really bad self-deprecating um, you know, imposter syndrome day, I reflect back on what individuals that I used to work with and what how they view me. There's a gentleman that who who he was, he's now a retired managing partner from EY who was over tax when I was working for Ernst and Young.

And when I was working for Ernst and Young, my position was an inclusiveness leader. So that was the first time, that was in 2017. So that was like cutting edge on in terms of them talking about inclusive inclusiveness in the workplace. And so I had this job, and what I wanted to do, and I knew it, like I could beeline it.

I knew that I wanted to come back and become a generalist. I did not want to be pigeonholed in that. And so I remember going back and having the conversation with George. And I said, Listen, I have this great opportunity to go work for turtle broadcasting, and I'm going to be a generalist.

And he looked at me, he said, Well, no, that's not what you do. And I looked at him and I said, Oh, no, that's how I started my career. That's and he said, Oh, he said, because the work that you have done here has been absolutely amazing. And I just always thought that that's what you were.

And I said, I really appreciate that. And so we fast forward, I leave go to turn a broadcasting, and then fast forwarding further further, I stayed in contact with him. He retired and became an executive coach. And so he was going through his all of his um certifications and all that good stuff.

So he asked me, because at that point in time, I was at the YMCA Metro Atlanta, that was my first CHR role, and he said, Can I come and practice on you? I said, Sure, I'd love for you to come practice on me. Yeah. So he came and practiced on me.

And so one of the things that he did with me, I also have this here, was kind of a roadmap for me. And we started talking about that. So we did the roadmap when I got there, and then I brought him in when I moved to the Braves. So now I've known this man since 2007.

Yeah. And so he's watched me grow as a professional and personally too. And so I just got through meeting with him six months ago to talk to him about what we did when I was a CHRO there, which is also in my vision journal. Oh my goodness.

Okay, what's on this roadmap? What's on the roadmap, Doretta? Well, I have to show you. So he made me do it in quadrants.

You can't tell, but he made me do it in quadrants. So it's desires, it's barriers to my desires, it's action items, and then there's a whole section that's two or life themes. Like, what are the things I want to talk about leaving as a legacy? I did this in I did this when I was at at um YMC at Metro Atlanta.

He pulled it back out for me to remind me of all of these things. Oh my god. And here's the circle. Right.

And so what I've done is I just married this. I know you're probably gonna think I'm really weird. Like people are gonna be like, what is wrong with this lady? I marry it.

The other thing that I put on here that speaks to what are the things that I enjoy? Oh, wow. Please, everybody, you must enjoy the video. Add value, yeah, life I want.

Oh, I love it. So I just so I do keep this with me. I know that sounds really weird. I do keep it with me.

And I constantly am thinking, revisioning, trying to figure out okay, what are the next things for me? Well, not, I mean, Doretta, to me, it sounds like again, you have a level of clarity and focus that I have to believe. I mean, I love what you're sharing with us and the visuals. And by the way, may I just give a shout out to the color-coded uh because I love a school supply, Doretta.

I really love a school supply. So this is my love language. But in that kind of um just all of the ways, maybe intentionally and maybe just sort of, I will say magically, that things happened for you, but it started because you had, again, the clarity of purpose, the vision for what you wanted, the things that mattered. I think a lot of us, it's much more happenstance.

We take the opportunities that are handed to us and that's fine, but versus I want to make some decisions about what matters to me in my life. And that's what I see you capturing there. What I would argue, I would I really would argue that I don't necessarily think for others it's happenstance either. I think that you may not be as literal as me, right?

Okay, and that's fair, that's fair, but I do think as I talk to young professionals, as I talk to all sorts of individuals about what they are wanting or what they desire, people articulate it. You may not put it in a journal. I mean, I started out because understand, for me, it became critical for me to be for me to be able to visualize because I was so mired down in all of these things that were happening to me. The divorce, the you know, being the single mom, all of those things.

I had to figure out what is it that I could do that I could lift to make sure that I could do the shift. And again, remember, my grandmother was a kindergarten teacher. So the concept of writing things down, putting them in a book, and putting so guess what? I mean, that was what I I really don't think, I don't think it's happenstance.

I mean, Elizabeth, you do coaching and you coach with people and they come to you because they do have a desired outcome they want to have. They may not know how to articulate it, but they have it. And so I think for me, it just it became more of a survival tactic for me to feel like, okay, let me get out of this. Like I talk about the book.

I wanted when I finished my dissertation, I knew I wanted to write a book. I knew I wanted to write a book about my dissertation, but wrap it around a story, right? Yes. And so, can I tell you how many starts and stops I had?

It was amazing. And it was over the course of a 10-year process that I had these starts and stops. And am I gonna self-publish? Am I gonna do this?

And decided not to self-publish, found a publisher with an author coach that walked me through the whole entire process when I got to the point that I've got to get this done, right? And so that has been that experience in of itself is one of those things where I wrote it down and it took me 10 years to get there. And I will tell you this: one of my professors, when I started the doctoral program, because as you can see, I'm a list person. So I'm like, I'm gonna be done.

Yeah, I'll never forget when Dr. Severo said to me, I need for you to understand you cannot put a time frame on finishing your dissertation, of finishing your doctoral process. Oh. He said, I want you to be able to understand you're going to live life through this too.

Oh, wow. And I'm glad he said that. Now, did I pick up on that initially? I'm like, no, what are you talking about?

I'm like, this is easy, it's classes, because he said this is going to change your life. And I'm like, what are you talking about? There's some more classes, is writing a paper, so forth and so on. He was absolutely right.

It and the reason I say it changed my life, it changed my focus to be very intentional around what are the things that I really want to get. And it took me seven years to finish that. And I'll never forget this story. Oh my gosh.

I'm running down the path, I've finished all my classes, I'm now in the process of just writing, which is the most loneliest place to be when you're going through a doctoral process because nobody understands, and it's all that stuff, and you're kind of doing it yourself. And I'm working specifically with my committee, they're they're sending stuff back, they're like, this is trash, start all over, like it was all that, right? And I'll never forget, I'm sitting in my kitchen table, at my kitchen table.

I forget how old cold and awesome were at the time, but I'm sitting at the kitchen table. They weren't with me their week that week and they were with their dad. And my bot, my my major professor calls me, she says, Hey, this was in like September. She said, Hey, and I just registered.

She said, I said, Yeah, what's going on? She said, You're graduating in December. I said, December of when? What are you talking about?

She said, You're graduating in December. I said, What are you talking about? She said, You're prepared. We're gonna finish up chapters five, four, and five, and you're graduating, you're gonna defend.

I'm putting the defense date on the calendar, and you're graduating in December. And I said, Are you sure? And she said, I'm sure. I need for you to be sure.

And so I was sitting there in awe and then scared because I'm like, oh my gosh, that's how many revisions I had to do, and it had to get to the committee and all that good stuff. But she knew, and and and I talk about it the same way that that experience happened to me when I got called in on the day my girlfriend passed away that I was getting promoted. I was never thinking that. That was not my frame.

My frame was I'm grinding, I'm grinding, I'm working through this, and I got the phone call. And so it's the same thing I think about all of the things that have happened for me. It has been someone else knew. Someone called me up, someone had the conversation with me, and I I have been very blessed as a result of that.

Yeah. I mean, sometimes it's just that one person who believes in you and sees something in you. And, you know, that was another thing I was really struck by in the book is all the people that I mean, lots of different people you encountered, to be sure, but those that saw those special things in you, Doretta, and championed you. And you know, I think about that, I was really struck by a few of the examples, and I thought, how do we create more of that?

Whether it's in the world, inside our companies. Yes. Why isn't that happening enough? Yeah.

What what have you found? You know, so for me, and I had one of my one of my leaders come to me and she said, Who supported you in everything that you've done? And I said to her, there's a leader that hired me as an HR manager. I had no experience.

I had finished my master's, I was very eager, but he hired me. And I'll never forget, and to this to this day, to this day, he is to me a friend, a confidant. He was an amazing leader, he was an amazing mentor, he was an amazing sponsor, all of the things that you could imagine rolled up in one. And I'll never forget, he never had a problem giving me tough feedback.

He called me in. When I needed to hear it, he gave it to me. Now, when he led with, I'm surprised that you dot dot dot dot. I was like, oh but he never, he never wavered in giving me that feedback.

He never wavered. And he wrote one of my endorsements in my book for me. He was the one that gave me my recommendation for the doctoral program. He's the one that's giving me recommendations when it's come up for other jobs.

Like he just had so much incredible faith in me that I didn't even have in myself. And so I think that when you're able to pour into people, and that is a very individual thing. Like, I don't come to work and think, oh, and this is what I say to people all the time, I am not my title. I could lose my title tomorrow.

And I think going through the experience of how hard it was to get it, I could lose it tomorrow, but does that mean the experience that you had with me was about my title as opposed to me about you? And so I think very intentionally about that because I've had some leaders that were not that clearly. Um, I had leaders that were not committed to my growth or development or were doing everything to keep me from getting to my growth and development. And so I think when we become as leaders, when we look at it as a responsibility and not a privilege, yeah, it changes to me the way in which you engage.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. You know, it's funny, we had someone on the podcast, Robert Clarkson, who's a former chief revenue officer for the Americas at Stripe.

And we also brought up this point because I think like you, Robert is one of these people that on purpose, I think, decides to help people see what he sees in them and put belief into them. So this idea of I think you can do this. I don't know if you see it, but I see it. And so doing that on purpose.

And so I mentioned this to Reddit because I want to come back to sort of where we started, because you know, uh writing a book like this, you have something important to say and to help people learn, I think, about what it's like to go through the world, um to be in a corporate role. And I'm curious why was it important for you to write the book or even to go through the work you did for the dissertation? What do you really want people to take from it? Oh wow.

Um the biggest thing I want people to take from it is that if I could do it, Elizabeth, so can you. I don't have I tell people all the time, because people will be like, oh, you're so busy. I'm like, I don't have the corner on busy. Like, I do not have the corner market on busy.

Everybody's busy. You make choices about what you're busy with. Everybody's busy. I really want people to take away from if I could do it, you can too.

Like there was nothing magical about what I've done. It was more about staying committed to doing it, regardless of how long it was going to take. I'll be damned. That absolutely that commitment, yes.

But but what I hope people gain from it is that I'm not special in that right in any type of way. I have I've worked really hard. I I really have felt like relationships are very critical. Like I think when we first met, it's that it was at a dinner, it was at a women's dinner for UGA, which I'm still involved with with UGA, right?

Yes, that's right. So and then we stay connected, which you know, so I think about that. Like I'm not what I really want people to take away from it is that you can. Yeah, that's right.

You can. You can. Don't tell me no, you can. There's so I I really want to say, you know, I I just felt so inspired so many times.

And I think being able to overcome things that, again, people may not be aware of or appreciate. And so to see your ability, I think to navigate those barriers in just all of the ways you did is is so powerful. Um so, Doretta, look, before we wrap up, we got to go back to that vision book of yours, okay? Because I want to know what's next for you.

What's in that book now? What are we thinking about, Doretta? Where are we excited? Let's let's talk about that.

That is such a great, great, great question that I'm still working on what that is, right? I um I really the one thing that I that I love to do, and I I do a lot of work in the com the community, I'm really focused on on women empowerment and leadership. I'm part of the Atlanta, Atlanta Women's Foundation here in the city. I also am in an organization called the International Women's Foundation.

Sure. That's absolutely amazing as well. And so, you know, when I think about what's next, because I don't ever think that I'll retire. I have a huge, wonderful mentor of mine, and she has she now coins it as rewire.

So rewire, so what are you doing different that also is in the scope of what is your passion? Because I do believe, and I I had a leader that used to say this all the time in these roles that we're had that we're in, they're least roles. They're not they're they're for rent. You are there to have an opportunity to do what you do, and then it when it's time for you to put somebody else in the seat, then that's what you do.

And I will tell you, that is really critical for me. I don't I don't plan to be in this seat forever. My goal is to develop the next person who wants to be in the seat. And so then the question is, what can I do more of, Elizabeth, that is getting out to people, is giving people the best words that I can use is belief and hope that you can do this as well.

And so, how can I continue to do that? And I'm hoping that I can continue to do it in writing and in speaking and engaging in different ways than just in a corporate setting. Well, all that means to me, Doretta, is of course, when your next book comes out, you will have to come back on the podcast because we want to hear all about it. But really want to encourage people, courage a voice is just personal, it's real, it's inspiring.

We will link to it in the show notes. So please check it out and make sure you you check out Doretta too. I mean, Doretta, you know, I haven't talked a lot about your TED Talk. It's another wonderful place, I think, where people get to hear you and your voice.

And so, Doretta, thank you, and we will see you back on the podcast next time. All right. Thank you for having me. Thank you.

Thank you. Well, that's all for today in Executive Land. Thanks for listening. And if you're looking for more, check out my website, eSuiteLeader.

com, where you'll see all kinds of free resources and take the free executive readiness assessment. It shows you exactly where you're strong and where to focus next in your own leadership. And don't forget, subscribe to this podcast so you never miss an episode. I'll see you next time in Executive Land.