The Uncomfortable Truth About "Attendee Experience" (From Someone Who Actually Delivers It) | Epic Events by vFairs | Tavar James

Younas, CEO, VFairs (00:01.306) Hello everyone, this is Mohammed Yunus. I'm the founder and CEO of WeFairs and along with me I have Tawar James. Tawar, welcome to the podcast.

Tavar James (00:10.744) Thank you, happy to be here. Younas, CEO, VFairs (00:12.816) Just for everyone, Tawar is a seasoned leader in events, marketing and hospitality, currently serving as vice president and global head of events at Forrester.

He's also a recognized industry thought leader. He also works and serve in various board members, it's with advisory boards, whether it's with SEMA, BizBash, and Skift, and is a member of the senior event executive peer group events leader exchange. Tawar, are one of the leaders within the industry. I just want to learn a bit more from you.

Can you walk us through your event? Can you walk us through your career background? What led you to join the events industry? in general, walk us through that career path.

Tavar James (00:51.054) Yeah, sure. I actually love my story. So I just have to find a better way to tell it a lot shorter, in a much more shorter way.

But nonetheless, I have now been in marketing and events, a little bit of sales for about 17 plus years, which I'm very fortunate that I started almost right out of high school, actually. So I was a front desk slash night auditor at a courtyard Younas, CEO, VFairs (01:13.998) Nice. Tavar James (01:21.

058) by Marriott Hotel in West Palm Beach, Florida, which is pretty much where I was raised. And this was one of my first real jobs right out of school. And I took this job because it allowed me to get my college work done while I was working. So about just under a year in that role, the general manager and the front desk manager of the hotel came to me and they said, hey, you you do a great job.

We love your energy with the guests. always have, you know, positive things to say about working with you. Would you want to go upstairs and be our sales and marketing coordinator? And at that time I was just like, hey, I would love to make more money.

Like, why not? So I took that job. And that was actually my introduction to marketing and events. Because in that role, I quickly went from being a coordinator to actually working with the director of sales and marketing to actually book and plan and execute events for our clients at that property.

I quickly grew in hospitality. From there, I went on to work for Marriott corporate as a regional sales manager in the corporate office down in the Southeast in Miami. And then I got moved to New York. Marriott moved me to New York to be a senior event manager at the New York Marriott at the Brooklyn Bridge.

And from there, I had other roles within hospitality in the Northeast market. until finally my last role was the director of special events out of Ritz-Carlton here in New York. Then at that point, I fell in love with events. That's when I realized, okay, I'm good at this.

I like it. There's something about it I really like, but I only knew it from the, I guess you can say the supplier side, the hotel side. And I knew there was a whole nother world of corporate events that I just wanted to know more about and I wanted to get into. So finally there was an opportunity with Equitable Financial, they were looking for a director of events.

And so I went for that role, had no idea I was going to get it, but my partner at the time was like, hey, you never know, you may be exactly what they're looking for. And it turns out I was exactly what they were looking for. So I was in that role leading not only events, but experiential marketing and events and corporate events at Equitable, saw them through an IPO, a rebrand, did a road show with a bunch of rebrand events across the country. Really, really great experience.

Tavar James (03:43.726) really brought their events team to a center of excellence. And that's when I realized, okay, I've done what I need to do here. And then I got an opportunity to lead a global field marketing events team in tech at a SaaS company.

And then from there, I went on to lead events for another SaaS company called BetterUp. I then took on another leadership role with an agency. a tech, it's it's an event tech company, but they also have a full service event planning side called boom pop. and now I'm vice president global head of events at Forrester.

So I've had a pretty nice trajectory. I think I'm one of very few in the industry who has seen it from all angles, from both the supplier side and the corporate side and a little bit of the meat in the middle side agency slash tech provider. I've seen it from a few angles and, I'm fortunate in that sense because it gives me a nice perspective, not a know-it-all perspective. I don't know it all.

There's always so much more to learn. This industry moves way too fast to know it all, but it's given me a pretty good perspective. Younas, CEO, VFairs (04:49.533) Yeah, of course, I'm in this industry for almost 15 years, and I agree with you.

There are very few people who have seen it from both sides, and I have lot of questions on that part. Starting with your most recent role at Forester, what kind of events are you planning nowadays? And the reason I asked that question, as you said, industry moves at such a fast pace that specifically now with this whole AI thing going on, events are becoming more important than ever. What are you seeing right now when you're planning events for Forester?

So just give it, are you doing more events? Are you doing less events? Tavar James (05:03.63) Mm-hmm.

Tavar James (05:22.083) Yeah. Younas, CEO, VFairs (05:29.788) Because there are a lot of things going on in terms of travel budget and so forth.

So just want to see like a deal for an organization like Forrester. What are they seeing from that perspective? you Tavar James (05:36.822) Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, we're seeing all the same signals that a lot of people, if not everyone, seeing. know, budgets are more restricted. People don't have as much travel budget. People also don't have as much of an L &D budget.

And so a lot of people, in order to continue their professional development, they're having to pay for events out of pocket. And so, you know, Forrester has a longstanding tradition of having flagship events like the B2B Summit that is known across Forrester and even previous serious decisions before Forrester acquired serious decisions. Everyone knew about the B2B Summit, our CX summits, our TNI summits. These are events that have been going for a pretty long time at Forrester.

And so when I came on board, my immediate call to action was how do I right size a ship that is not necessarily sinking, but it's also just not really moving. Younas, CEO, VFairs (06:26.768) Mm-hmm. you Tavar James (06:30.

03) So how do I get it to move again? How do I put more throttle behind the machine that is Forrester Events? And our events are, you know, we have our largest event that can be anywhere between 1500 to 2500 people. And then we have smaller events that are around 400 to 500 people.

So we have a very diverse portfolio of events that appeal to a wide variety of personas. And so, you know, When you think of the headwinds that are facing the industry, the changes that are facing the industry, I immediately had to go into strategic mode when I joined Forester. And we really, really do lead with an attendee first philosophy, meaning every experience that we curate, every program that we put together, even though we do have a very, very robust sponsorship strategy.

we always, always, always lead with the 10D First. And so a lot of the changes that I've made to our portfolio starting this year are a reflection of that. It's a reflection of a 10D First. It's making our events more accessible.

So we've, you know, taken our CX North America Summit and we've turned it into one and a half day forums and we brought it bi-coastal. That way people, it's easier for people to get to it. It's less expensive for people to get to it. As a result of making some of those changes, I'm now able to adjust our ticket pricing again, to make it more affordable, to make it more accessible to more people.

So we've made some changes that are all a reflection of Attendee First. Younas, CEO, VFairs (07:54.69) Well, I love the attendee first approach. And again, I see a mix of both.

I have conversations like these pretty much half a day every single day for four hours. Sometimes with, of course, industry professionals, sometimes with our customer prospects. And I've seen that for half of them, attendee first is the way to or to grow the events. Tavar James (08:09.

454) Mm-hmm. Younas, CEO, VFairs (08:19.248) For other half, just because events are tight, it is how to please the exhibitors and sponsors because that's where money comes from. Did you have a preference over one or the other?

Do you really have sponsors and exhibitors or in your case, attendees are the only stakeholders that you have to take care of? Because for a technical conference, as you can imagine, you have these suppliers and exhibitors who are paying a huge amount of money. Tavar James (08:26.092) Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Tavar James (08:40.696) Mm-hmm. Younas, CEO, VFairs (08:48.

62) Attendees, of course, who pay the ticket price, but that's pretty less. And the idea is that, OK, which one you please more? Because if you do please sponsors more, somehow attendees get affected. If you're only taking care of the attendees, how do you prove the ROI to sponsors?

Have you figured out the best way where every stakeholder achieves the best what that event has to offer? Tavar James (09:09.154) I can't say that we figured out the best way, but I definitely feel good about our direction starting this year. When I came into the business, there were definitely some archaic ways of thinking about what that relationship between sponsors and attendees looks like.

And we have kind of taken a different approach. Again, our events will always be attendee first, but yes, we understand that sponsors, our sponsor partners is what I like to call them, our sponsor partners are very important. and so first we recognize that this is not a one way street. It's not where we need our sponsors to help supplement the event, but it's also not where sponsors need us to supplement their demand gen and their pipeline.

It's a two way street. We need each other. Right. And so as much as I'm going to make sure my sponsors are happy, they need to also make sure that our attendees are happy.

Younas, CEO, VFairs (09:57.008) This is. Tavar James (10:03.478) So for example, one of the things that we are doing to make sure that we still live in an attendee first philosophy is our sponsors, we've updated our sponsor packages so that there are more opportunities for our sponsors to get in front of attendees outside of a booth, right?

The booth still works. Julia Solares just put out a post on LinkedIn that shows us that a certain percentage of people of next generation attendees still want to do business at a booth. So we know that booths still work, but booths are not the only way. Younas, CEO, VFairs (10:26.

736) You You Tavar James (10:32.536) that a sponsor can drive demand, drive brand awareness, drive pipeline at an event. More and more sponsors want to become integrated into your programming. So that's case studies.

That's more one-to-one, one-to-many engagement opportunities. That's roundtable discussions. That's inviting them to executive roundtables. So we are doing a much better job of giving our sponsors options outside of just a booth.

Why is that important? Because the more that you can integrate your sponsors and your sponsor partners into your programming, Younas, CEO, VFairs (10:55.08) Mm-hmm. Tavar James (11:02.

69) the less intense it is on your attendees. And that is why we find that it's better not only for the sponsors, but it's also better for the attendees to find ways to incorporate them in the programming. And we found that that works. Our most popular, I guess you can say offerings that our sponsors see is our case studies and our round tables and giving them opportunities to be infused in the programming.

That is where our sponsors see a lot of the value. less on booths, booth traffic, things of that sort. Because the reality of it is, let's be honest, event sizes are not growing across everyone's portfolio. In fact, most people are seeing that their event sizes are shrinking.

They're finding it harder to get people to come to their events, which means you can't rely so much on booths and booth traffic. You have to find other ways to get in front of the attendee. Younas, CEO, VFairs (11:49.175) Yeah.

And, Tauar, given that you have this attendee first approach, what are you seeing that attendees are more craving for? Again, you know, given that you mentioned Julia's various, you know, a lot of other similar research reports, you have these sessions that used to be the way to get attendees because, again, learning is the key and that everyone looks for. Then you have networking piece that, okay, people have started working from home. Tavar James (12:08.

387) Mm-hmm. Younas, CEO, VFairs (12:16.3) An event is where sometimes a lot of these people meet and so forth. The third one is, of course, you have these booths and sponsors where you go ahead and you learn about them, but more in an ad hoc way.

I stumble across a booth, but then even these booths are in time, like with time are asking more for guaranteed meetings, lot more matchmaking ahead of the event itself so that the conversations are meaningful and more prepared by both parties. Tavar James (12:33.944) Mm-hmm. Younas, CEO, VFairs (12:43.

466) I'm not saying that you have to pick one or the other, just like which way you do see that attendees are more craving for. it the sessions? Is it the networking? it that, I want to learn about the partners because they do solve the problem for many of these attendees, right?

One way or the other. Tavar James (13:00.046) It is all three, but only one of them should, not one of them, all of them should be optional because people should be able to curate the experience they want. But one of them should be more optional than the others.

And that's number three. Those one-to-one meetings, guaranteeing those meetings or having FaceTime with sponsor partners at an event should always be optional for an attendee. In fact, I really, really don't like it when there's events that force you to meet with sponsors in order to... be part of a hosted buyer program or whatever the case may be.

And I get it. I get it. That's just how the business model works. That's something that probably won't change for a while.

But I would probably, that would be a last resort for me when it comes to my portfolio is, you know, making people have these meetings with sponsors in order for them to get a discounted ticket or whatever the case may be. It's something that we've talked about, but the more and more that I think about the why, and that's what people have to go back to, take out all the noise. all the noise around KPIs, ROI, all that fun stuff, and really get back to the basics of why people come to your event.

And for everyone, it's going to be a different answer. We have come up with a very clear answer as to the why people attend Forrester events. People attend Forrester events to turn ideas into action. That's our value profit from an events perspective.

People have ideas. They have hypotheses. They're trying to face a challenge, a change within the businesses that they serve. And they have thoughts of how they can do it.

have ideas of how they can do it, but it needs validation. It needs to be kind of pressure checked with other peers. They want to learn more about a specific topic. That is why they come to a Forester event.

They do come to meet vendors. They come to meet solution providers, right? But for them, that's a plus. That's not the core reason of why they come.

So we start from there. We start from the why are they coming and we build from there. Because the truth of the matter is, sponsors are not going to be the ones that Maintain the perception of your event. Attendees are.

Attendees are the ones that are going to talk to each other about their experience at your event, why their colleague or their peer should go, why the group of friends, girlfriends should go every year. Sponsors are not the ones that are going to carry that. Your attendees are. So starting with the why an attendee goes is where I see you will find answers to all your questions around how much weight should we give to sponsors?

How should we infuse them in our programming? But you have to start with that why. Tavar James (15:27.086) I also think that we as an industry.

We try too hard to like flip things upside down. Like this model between like attendees versus sponsors and what people want. I really truly feel like it's not one of those things where you have flip upside down. This has been a model that has worked for a very, very, very long time.

And for a lot of companies, it still works and that's okay. For a lot of other companies and a lot of other event organizers, they're going to have to think a little bit more outside the box, which is what I've come to Forrester to do is to think outside of the box. So I would tell people, get too caught up in like thinking that there's some other model or other variation of success out there that you're not understanding or you're not honing in on. That's probably not true.

What you probably do need to do is go back to basics, ask yourself, why are people attending my event and build from there. And building from there means you'll probably have to make some changes to your own portfolio. But I don't think there's some glimmering new thing out there that everyone's missing out on. I really don't.

Younas, CEO, VFairs (16:31.661) Yeah, and I I heard it somewhere, but we all just have to play on our strengths. Every conference, every company have their strengths. Sometimes we look at other people, I don't know, strengths or their ideas and we thought that we have to copy them.

But you know what, every company at every conference has their own way of doing things. Tavar James (16:50.162) And if I can add, it's also a quality, like we're all singing as well. It's a quality game.

It's not a quantity game, right? And so the more that you work with other sponsor partners that also understand that it's a quality game or they're in the phase of their growth where they can focus on quality, then those are the sponsor partners you want. You don't want sponsor partners that are focused on quantity, right? While your event is focused on quality, because that's a conflict and they're going to give your attendees an experience that's an opposite of the experience you want to give them.

So it's all about having those strategic conversations. Younas, CEO, VFairs (17:25.975) You mentioned a few things that I really liked. So whether it was quality, whether it is also about we don't have to flip things just to make us feel that we're doing something unique or something different.

I also saw that your events are mid-sized. And it looks like you don't feel like a attendee is just a number. You're not chasing a number. It looks like you're trying to just really take care of the attendee and that's your main intention.

So what do you actually lose when you chase scale? There are some companies who literally, I won't name them, but for them, it is a big thing to say it's our biggest conference ever. they quote those numbers and the next time it's all about beating that number. Tavar James (18:06.

006) Absolutely. Younas, CEO, VFairs (18:12.627) It doesn't look like that's what you're after. And so first of all, why?

Why you're not after that? To begin with, and it looks like you feel that achieving or going after that might impact something else. So just walk me through the thought process over there. Tavar James (18:28.

622) For me, event growth comes organically when you have the right people attending your event. Again, going back to the why, if you start with the why and then target the people that really fall into that, the answer to that why, then I think your growth will come organically. We focus, the reason why we're not necessarily, and to be clear, we want to have our events grow, but the reason why that's not part of our focus right now is because Younas, CEO, VFairs (18:52.591) You You Tavar James (18:57.

816) Community is so critical to all of our events. We hear time and time again in our surveys when we survey our attendees, and they want that peer-to-peer networking. And not peer-to-peer networking in the sense of, I'm having a toast with my peers, or we're eating crudite at this reception with my peers. No.

They want to sit at a table with people that are having the same problems they're having that can help them answer the question or answer that problem. maybe in a different way, maybe from a unique point of view, but people wanna sit with people like them who open the aperture of their brains. And so when you are targeting just any and everyone who will buy a ticket to your event, which that is a portion of our strategy, let's be clear, our events are open to all. But if you are so hung up on the growth, you start to lose that sense of, again, quality community.

or peers that relate to me or peers that are on my same level. One of the wonderful things about Forrester events that have really kept our events relevant is our events have like-minded individuals. You're in good company when you come to a Forrester event. And we've been able to protect that because we've always focused on attendee first, because we've always focused on the why people come.

And naturally, that then proves to be a value to sponsors. Because again, you and I both know with budgets being cut, more pressure on ROI, do I go to that event where I have 500 delegates and out of those 500 delegates, I know 400 out of the 500 are relevant to me? Or do I go to that event that has 10,000 people where I'm not sure how many are relevant because it's all over the place. And yes, I have a greater chance at talking to more people because there's more people there.

Younas, CEO, VFairs (20:26.415) access. Tavar James (20:50.446) But just because I'm talking to more people doesn't mean those people are relevant.

So it's those types of conversations that I sponsors are also having. So when I go to a sponsor and I say, yeah, our event's 500 people, but over 70 % of those 500 are going to be senior director and above and decision makers, there's value there to them. Because there's also a flip. have to think from a sponsor's perspective.

Not only are the attendees more relevant, but for a 500 person event versus 10,000, I can have a smaller brand presence. I don't have to send as many people from my team. Right? So my T &E costs are low.

I don't have to worry so much on activation costs. Right? So there's a balancing act that think sponsored partners have to play as well. And if you are confident in your portfolio and the value that you deliver, and you have a team that can speak to that value, it's a win-win for everybody.

I think that's something that a lot of teams suffer with is, do I have the team that fully believes in our events strategy? and that can really speak to the value of our events outside of the norm, right? And that's critical on your events team. You have to have people that believe in the strategy and that can speak to it.

Younas, CEO, VFairs (22:02.223) Perfect. Do you use AI in any way in any of your event planning? Again, I ask this question to pretty much everyone.

And I see people who believe that there's a lot of value that they're getting from AI versus totally other people who feel that it's a hype. It's not there yet, especially because it's not perfect. And with events, unlike any other thing, you cannot take risk in your communication in a lot of others. So where are you seeing value, if at all, with AI in this whole event journey?

Tavar James (22:38.282) Yeah, we definitely, well, I won't say we, I'll speak specifically about me. I definitely use AI across the board when it comes to just my thinking, ideating. I always have a human to help validate my thinking, let's be clear.

I'm not one of those people that fully trusts AI to a point where I would present or put anything in front of my executive team or even anything in front of my own team without pulse checking it first. But I do think there are a lot of ways that you can use AI to be more efficient when it comes to, you know, maybe how I want to write something or write an email or how I want to plan, put together a project plan or a marketing plan. It's a good starting point. And I guess that's the best way to summarize how I use AI right now.

I use AI as a starting point, right? When my brain is fogged, when I can't figure out where to begin, I use AI to kind of directionally give me a push. And then from there, I use my own thinking, my own talent, my own experience to kind of finish this or see it to the end. So yeah, I think for senior executives like myself, we have to adopt AI first and foremost because we have to set the right example for our teams and our teams should be adopting AI, right?

But I think that for executives like myself who don't have enough time in a day to spend on turning our wheels, it's a great way to just get us started. to get us going directionally and then from there, you we can take it from there. So that's how I use it. Younas, CEO, VFairs (24:06.

827) Perfect. That's a good one. How much the venue is important for the footfall? Do you feel that the city and the venue matters a lot when it comes to?

Tavar James (24:20.258) Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. this, but this is again, this is a decision that has to be made strategically based off of your, your, your, your, your marketable contacts, your TAM, who you're trying to, you know, attract to go to your events, your sponsor partners. One of the reasons why we decided to make, I'll use our CX forums as an example, the reason why we made CX forum East and West, right?

Cause we could have done central, we could have done many other locations, but we did East and West because Younas, CEO, VFairs (24:42.607) Mm-hmm. Tavar James (24:47.302) Our database shows us that a lot of our contacts who have historically attended our CX events either come from the East Coast because of certain verticals, certain industries, or they come from the West Coast because of certain verticals or certain industries.

And so in the East and the West, there's only so many cities that would make sense to have an event, whether it be because of where someone's headquarters is located or because of where there is a high concentration of people where they can... Younas, CEO, VFairs (25:10.543) Yeah. Tavar James (25:14.

882) find easy ways of transportation to get in, like New York, for example, when you have an event in New York, you're not just tackling New York, you're tackling New Jersey, you're tackling Pennsylvania, you're tackling Boston, you're tackling Connecticut. So you have a higher probability of having more people that can attend. So yes, big cities and venues still matter, both of them collectively still matter, but it should not be a matter of, I'm going to this city because it's a big city and it's a known city.

It should be a strategic decision based off of where you have the highest probability. of having a good turnout. That's how I approach it. Younas, CEO, VFairs (25:48.

885) And just what's your take on just celebrity speakers? Do you feel that it's a content that matters or do you feel that a celebrity speaker also just pulls the traffic, pulls the audience? Tavar James (26:02.179) I once upon a time was that person that felt like the bigger the celebrity, the better, but I haven't, I no longer think that way.

I think that. Celebrity speakers are great if they can create connection among your audience. they can, if they can, and connection among your audience is not always, they connect to the theme of your conference or, they, you know, they were able to tie in your messaging. Cause not a lot of celebrity speakers can do that to be quite honest with you.

But one of the things that I've, I appreciate is when you can end your conference on a high. I'll speak specifically about Forrester events because our events are so deep in learning and insights and actionable takeaways. People come with intention to our events. After a day or two of just learning and absorbing information and collaborating or speaking with peers, it's nice to kind of end where you can just let your shoulders down and And that is where I think some celebrity speakers do a great job.

They do a great job of leaving you at an event or leaving your event on a high. Inspirational, motivational, takes you away from the pressure of learning for a moment where you can just almost leave feeling lighter. And that is where I think they can really benefit, they can really contribute. But the number of celebrity speakers that can do that, honestly, is shrinking.

So you have to be very careful. I'm Younas, CEO, VFairs (27:41.039) What's your favorite event that you like to attend? It cannot be a forestry event.

It has to be a forestry one. So which one do you personally like to attend and why? Tavar James (27:46.008) Yeah, yeah, sure.

Tavar James (27:53.458) I really have grown to love the SEMA Summit. And I'm not just saying that because I'm on the advisory board. I said this before I was even on the advisory board.

SEMA Summit has done a great job. And in case you don't know SEMA, it's the Corporate Event Marketing Association. SEMA has done a great job of A, having really strong content and programming. B, They do a great job of helping people see themselves in the event, which is a huge part of attracting attendees.

And C, they've done a great job of getting the right speakers to talk about the right stuff. And the great thing about SEMA Summit is that it's at that size where it's not too big and intimidating, and you get lost in the sauce, but it's also not too small where you don't feel like there's much value. I've really grown to love SEMA Summit. Now I will say, I have not been to enough events to say that that is my ultimate favorite.

There are a lot of events out there that I still want to go to. Like Ted, I want to get to a Ted event one day. I haven't been to Dreamforce in a very long time. So, you know, there are other events out there that I want to get to.

CES and, you know, all these things I want to get to that I haven't gotten to. But I will say for the one that I go to frequently, SEMA Summit. Younas, CEO, VFairs (29:15.279) Looks like their event for this year is happening in Toronto, Canada.

I would say I might as do this one. What's your take on like giveaways, gifts, swag in the booth? Every sponsor, every exhibitor is like, okay, what should we be doing for our activations? What do you think works now?

Because I have asked this question to a lot of people in the podcast. And everyone. Tavar James (29:19.448) Yes, Younas, CEO, VFairs (29:42.

199) is like no more pen, no more water bottles, no more all of that stuff. But do you think that there's something that still stands out and whether people should even worry about it? Like have any swag at all to begin with? Tavar James (29:54.

476) I have two opinions about this. first opinion is that if you're going to give out swag, it needs to be something that's sustainable, right? We all need to do a better job of protecting our planet. So that's there.

However, if it works, it works. There are certain people that still go to events and they look for the water bottle, they look for the pens, they look for the notebooks, they look for this stuff and they like it and they enjoy it. So if it works for you, it works. The second part that I will say to it is there is a part like We need to stop thinking of activations at booths of being giveaways and being more experiential.

And if you've heard me speak on a podcast or on a stage in the past, you probably have heard me say that there is a lot that the B2B events industry can learn from the B2C events industry. The example that I like to give is, if you go to an American Express activation at South by Southwest, They're doing everything but asking you to open a credit card. They're finding some way to tap into your emotional being. They're finding some way to make that moment memorable where you are having a good time and you remember it because of the positive feeling that it gave you.

If you go, if you see a Delta Airlines booth somewhere, they're doing everything but asking you to buy a plane ticket, right? And it's the same concept. I think there's a lot we can learn at B2B. booth activations from B to C, which is you don't have to give someone something when they come to your event.

They don't have to have something in their hands. I know that you feel like that's how they're going to remember you is if they see that water bottle with your logo on it. And part of that is true. They will remember you more if you leave them with a feeling, a true feeling of something that that resonates with them and that will live inside them for days and weeks to come.

That is how people remember you. Remember, people don't remember what you do. They remember how you feel, how you made them feel. or they don't remember what you say, they remember how you made them feel.

So I think if we can lean more into some of that B2C tactic, which is let's make people feel something, even in the B2B world, that's where I would love to see that go. Younas, CEO, VFairs (32:03.191) Antoine, if you don't mind, because I love that opinion, I just want to also leave our listeners with one example of that. what have you witnessed with any of these B2C brands that you were like, that was magical?

Tavar James (32:17.26) Yeah, I won't name the company because I have to be careful with that. But I went to an event once and there was a booth where they asked a simple question. And it was like on this huge cardboard.

the way they did it was fantastic. The question was, how do you feel today? And there was a screen that pretty much kind of popped up with all these different options for you to select how you feel today. And based off of what you selected, it gave you a percentage of how many people that participated in that activation also picked the same answer as you.

And the reason why that resonated with me is because I was in a really tough place emotionally, mentally when I attended that event. And I honestly felt like I was alone. I felt like I was putting on a face trying to be this happy goat. Tavar that everyone knows and that I'm the only person in the world that feels this way.

And even though it didn't tell me exactly who are the other people that made me feel that way or maybe feeling that way, in that moment, I was reminded that I'm not alone and that there are other people at this event that are going through things that are probably trying to put on a face just like you. So I remember walking away from that experience saying, Tavar, you're doing okay. You're okay. It's okay.

And like I said, I can't say the vendor's name, the company's name, but I would never forget that. I would never forget how for 10 minutes that company reminded me that I'm human, that I should give myself grace, and that everything is okay, and that I'm not the only one. And that has nothing to do with their business, nothing at all. But I will remember them forever because of that.

Younas, CEO, VFairs (33:56.399) I love it. Perfect. Tawar, you're known as an advocate for the next generation of event professionals.

What advice do you want to give young planners trying to build careers in this evolving landscape? Tavar James (34:12.866) Yeah, my number one thing is to, actually there's two things. First things first, you have to take care of yourself.

Most people that either look at our industry from the outside in, they see one of two things. They either see that it's an amazing industry and it's an amazing job because we get to travel the world and have so much fun planning events, or they see it as exhausting, they see their friends are burnt out and they want to have nothing to do with it. So you have to take care of yourself because this industry will take the life out of you. It will.

In fact, when I was early on in my career, I was so dedicated to growing in my field and growing in my craft. I look back now and I'm like, man, you were exhausted all the time. You were just not well. So the first thing I would say for anyone looking to come into this industry or those who are growing in this industry, take care of yourself.

You're no good to anyone else if you're not good to yourself. And by taking care of yourself and fueling yourself, you give more of yourself. You give the best version of yourself, which then naturally you'll see yourself grow and thrive and all those good things. And the second thing that I would say is, Tavar James (35:26.

988) Be very careful and intentional with who you surround yourself with. Be very careful and intentional with who you lean into as a mentor. Be very careful and intentional with what spaces within the industry you decide to interject yourself into. And the reason why I say that is because Tavar James (35:48.

632) There are some people in this industry that will really, really, really want to invest in you and your growth and be a good advocate of that. And there are some people that will really, really, make you feel like crap because they probably wish that they had the path that you had have, and they unknowingly start to bring you down. I've seen people that I've mentored go through this. and I think, you know, our industry is so big, becomes overwhelming when you have invites from every single person in the world to attend this event and attend that event.

And it can get very overwhelming. We're a very, very noisy industry, I will say. So I would say be very intentional with where you show up. Give yourself grace and take care of yourself.

You know, as, as big as this industry is, if you play your cards right. And if you're really focused on your craft, you can grow. And you really could have a very, very, very fruitful and satisfying career. I will say that I'm now at that point where I'm having that.

Thank the gods, I am. But there are certain things that I wish I would have done better. And those are two things I wish I would have done better. I wish I would have taken care of myself, and I wish I would have been more intentional with where I show up.

Younas, CEO, VFairs (37:05.039) To our last question, what's one skill you didn't think would matter when you started this career, but it turned out to be very, very critical in the success that you have seen so far. Tavar James (37:17.729) It's very critical to understand the worlds that influence events.

In other words, you cannot stay in your little events bubble. Perfect example is the AI world that we're going through right now, right? I have learned pretty quickly that you have to be aware of all the other stakeholders, teams, businesses that impact. your business and your events, marketing, sales, sales enablement, operations, the executive team.

In order for you to be successful in this industry, in my opinion, you have to understand how all of those worlds collide to make an events center of excellence. Once upon a time, when I first entered the industry, I definitely thought like, I can just, you know, stay in my little bubble and plan my events and, know, you know, I'll let people know when things are due and I'll let people know when registration is ready and I'll let people know, like, and I quickly realized, like, that is the worst way you can go about this industry, even as an entry level person, as a coordinator or an associate.

That is when you really should start to try your best to understand all the other components of, of our world. Younas, CEO, VFairs (38:39.12) Yeah. Tavar James (38:40.

291) So that's the one thing I didn't realize in the beginning and I quickly realized. And the moment that I started to invest time and energy into learning those other worlds and how they impact my world, my job became so much more, not only satisfying, but it became so much easier. Younas, CEO, VFairs (38:56.111) Tawar, thank you so much for, again, I absolutely loved our conversation.

I know that I promised you that it would be 30 minutes. I went way above that mark. Again, it was all super amazing. Tawar, if people wanna connect with you, learn a bit more from your wisdom and everything, what's the best way for them to connect with you?

Is it on LinkedIn? What would you say? Tavar James (39:05.487) It's okay.

Tavar James (39:19.245) Yeah, LinkedIn is the best. Just type in Tavar James, T-A-V-A-R James. I'm one of very few, so I'll probably be one of the first ones that pops up.

Or if you just Google Tavar James, my LinkedIn is one of the first searches that pops up. So yeah, if anyone wants to reach out, feel free to DM me. I am one of those people that I try my best to respond to all my DMs. Even if I have nothing to offer, I will tell you.

Sorry, this is not something I can help you with, but feel free to reach out, connect, send me a DM if you need to. I'm always willing and... trying to share as much as I can and learn from other people as well. I love connecting with people, so feel free to reach out.

Younas, CEO, VFairs (39:54.256) Thank you, Tawar. Thank you everyone for listening in. And again, I highly, highly recommend that, you know, Tawar is someone that you should follow.

Again, we all learn a lot from just his career path and, know, what he has to say. Tawar, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Tavar James (40:08.057) My pleasure.