Event Marketing Strategy: Why Most Conferences Fail to Sell Tickets (And How to Fix It) | Epic Events by vFairs | Peep Laja

Younas, CEO, vFairs Hello everyone, and thanks for joining vFair's Epic Events Podcast. My guest today has spent years figuring out why buyer says yes and why they don't. He is the CEO of Winter, a three-time founder, and the organizer of the Spring Conference. He's here to talk about how event organizers can stand out and win in an increasingly crowded market.

Please welcome Pep Laya. Pep, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Peep Laja Hey, it's a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Younas, CEO, vFairs Bep, you recently wrapped up the fourth annual spring conference and you posted that it taught you a lot about how to sell tickets for any particular event. What was the biggest lesson from this year that you wish more marketers and and event organizers understood? Peep Laja Yeah, I wouldn't say that it it was this fourth ⁓ spring event in particular. It's the continuation of every event that I've ever run.

You know, I I I organized my first conference in 2008, so almost 20 years ago. So I did ⁓ probably ten years of this event called Elite Camp in Estonia in Europe. And then I did a ⁓ a conversion event called CXL Live for about ten years, twenty fourteen to twenty twenty four. ⁓ and now I do the spring event.

So I've I've had this experience from ⁓ multiple conferences. And the lesson is selling tickets is not really getting easier. Every year you think, I have so many return attendees, more people know about the conference. Next year is gonna be so easy.

And it's it's not. Younas, CEO, vFairs And and and ⁓ like w why why do you think that would be is it because people have so many choices? and I say that because ⁓ our CMO and you know he is into like you know, he follows you regularly. And you know, if if he if it's his wish, he would be in every every each one of your conference.

But again, you know, we all have work, we all have other priorities, but ⁓ w why do you think that's hard? Peep Laja Yeah, ⁓ just because there are so many events and most people attend one or two events per year. So it's like you go to a conference that you really love and come next year, we're like, I already went to that one, I'll try something else. And then you go to another event, you know?

⁓ and there are just so many conferences. Like you open up any industry Let's say marketing conferences and just see how many events is happening every single month. It's insane. There's so many events you've never heard of, and those events you've never heard of get thousands and thousands of attendees.

So events are very, very competitive. And I should say they are getting more competitive every year. It's because now in the age of AI and ⁓ remote working and all that stuff, where people are lonely and they want to hang out with other people. Events have picked up ⁓ even more than and before.

And also if you look at like how marketing organizations report like, hey, which tactic like generates leads and opportunities, events is getting events are getting bigger and bigger. So more more companies are thinking, ⁓ I should do my event. and they do. And so yeah, so there's a lot more competition, a lot more choice, and people don't go to that many events.

Prayer. Younas, CEO, vFairs ⁓ given that it's so hard to run an event, and I absolutely agree with you. How do you justify the event internally? Is it more for revenue, for the brand, for the community, for the pipeline, for the customer trust?

what's that like why do you go through this journey of selling tickets, running an amazing event, you know, because you have an absolutely amazing brand, right? So Anytime any one of us is running an event, it's a risk that we all take to go through that journey, right? So how do you justify that internally? Peep Laja Yeah.

So we are not in the business of events. We have a different business model. We're a B2B market research business. And so, yes, it is an extra.

But it is ⁓ from my perspective, a it's marketing, it gives us another thing to tell to the market. ⁓ and and it's it's relationships with existing customers because we do invite our existing annual customers to attend for free even. So we can build relationships and then to also plant word of mouth in the room, you know, like when they're talking to other people, yeah, we use winter, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So those are the two key things.

And this ⁓ there's this other thing where there is still this maybe outdated idea that only big companies put on events. You you throw a conference, you must be important. And really winter, we you know, we are a relatively small company, but we sell to very large companies, we sell to meat to large enterprises. ⁓ and then ⁓ you know perception is reality to the perceiver.

Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah. y you mentioned, and I'm going through your LinkedIn post, that events are marketing and relationship building. You can spend the money on LinkedIn ads or you can create membered experience. So I I do agree that when you're running events, you're competing with other forms of marketing spend that one can do as a as a company, as a brand, or you know, so what does spring do for winter or your broader brand?

that you feel that no other marketing channel could do as well. Because LinkedIn ads is easy. Press and you're done. Running a conference is hard.

Peep Laja Yeah, it's ⁓ I mean LinkedIn ads is is running the ads is easy. Getting ROI and that's another matter. ⁓ well with the events ⁓ attribution is murky. It's not like we throw an event and immediately we sign up, you know, a hundred new customers.

And it doesn't work that way, you know. I think it's been ⁓ I can think of like maybe one event where we signed like one or two customers right away. ⁓ usually it's it's it's a big lag time. I mean it ⁓ with the existing customers it really helps with renewals if you personally know the people.

Like this relationships and sales and renewals, it's it's a real thing, you know. In nineteen fifty two they said that. It's still true today. So you know, it's anecdotally that it that it helps.

And then f we are mostly inbound lead business model, like we don't we don't do outbound. So all leads are inbound to winter. And when we look who is coming, ⁓ the leads, I'm like, this guy attended two years ago, this guy attended three years ago. It's like I'm not saying it's the event that converts people, but it's a touch point and it's significant, you know.

We it's a two-day event with also a third like a pre-day. So a lot of touch points to ⁓ it's an e it's an experience and you get like Two three days of brand exposure, which is very different from seeing an ad for a second on in your LinkedIn feed, right? So the quality of interaction is very, very different. And yes, I mean our event is about 200 people intentionally, because of the format.

⁓ and we spend, I think our last event was maybe $120,000, $130,000 to cost. ⁓ And every year we break even or like make a little bit of money. Or or I think one year we lost two thousand dollars. You know, it's basically free.

So spending, you know, a hundred thousand on LinkedIn ads, you're hoping hoping to break even. but I think it's just the quality quality is just ⁓ much superior than running ads. Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah. I I have a question that because you mentioned that ⁓ you invite ⁓ your customers for free.

wha what does that mean? Is it that the tickets are for free, or do you just invite them where their hotel and accommodation is also for free? Peep Laja We we give them free tickets and we and if they're like ⁓ really juicy key account, we do offer that hey, w we'll we can also pay for your flight and hotel. but you know like even if if we offer these things ⁓ like f just a free ticket, you know, and they have to pay for the travel, their their employer often doesn't order authorize the expenses.

So even if we invite for free, you know, like I want less than half come because of this. Younas, CEO, vFairs Makes sense. Yeah. Peep Laja And even if this year we offer to keep key accounts like ⁓ you know, we'll also pay for some other things, still it was like you know, conflict with life and they have children and you know, like it's not easy to like and also the people who attend our events, they are like VPs of large companies.

So these people are well compensated. a f yet another free event is not like, my God, I get to go for free. You know, it's it's not not the kind of perk you imagine it to be. Younas, CEO, vFairs What do you think from an attendees perspective?

Because as we mentioned, ⁓ everyone has so many choices of which conference to attend, from an attendee perspective, what's in it for them to attend any event? You know, we'll we'll come to spring in particular, but do you think that the main value of conference today, is it content, is it relationship, is it the brand experience? How do you see it, but just from attendee perspective, not from an organizer perspective? Peep Laja I think it depends a lot on ⁓ your stage of your career.

So if you're new to something, you just study, it's your second year in marketing. Knowledge is a big thing. You learn things you didn't know. If you've been around the block, you know, you've been in the business for fifteen years or more, you know, you don't travel for content really.

I mean, sure you'll you'll learn an interesting idea or two, but mainly you go to talk shop. It's gonna to meet peers, to build relationships, ⁓ and fun, you know, 'cause it it is conferences are fun and at spring, like you know, fun is a serious business is how I think about it. Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah. And I was about to say that, you know, you did mention even in your summary of how the conference went that you optimize for fun and fun is a serious business.

just how do you make it happen? like what are some of the things that you would just categorize in that particular bucket? Is it about is it about really just having some of the activities that are fun beyond the conference hours? Or is it during the conference hours nine to six that There are some just, you know, time blocked where you are just letting people have fun just as groups and so forth.

Help me visualize a bit of that. Peep Laja Yeah, so of course fun is very subjective, you know, like what's fun for you is not fun for me, or you know, some people like this kind of beer and others like that kind of beer. So you have to decide and make a conscious choice, like what kind of a person am I trying to please here? Because you cannot please everybody.

and you know, ⁓ I of course look look at it through my own personal lens when I attend a conference other than my own. What what are the things I enjoy about it? And ⁓ what what do what do I don't like about those events? And so fun starts with the venue selection.

Because if it's like the traditional, like most conferences, it's like it's at a hotel conference center. Freezing AC, the carpets, the elevators, the escalators, the the hotel weights. It feels so impersonal, so not fun. ⁓ so we do it at at a brewery, you know.

⁓ and it's it's a huge outdoor space, so it's inside outside, it's very casual, immediate sends like a friendly vibe. Yeah, and you know, you you lived in Austin, it's kind of Austin vibe, you know, like ch chill. It's chill. So fun starts there.

And the fun if I think about it that it this way that people leave home. to meet other people. Okay, that's the main event. Not the speakers on the stage.

So I'm making a lot of deliberate space. I'm creating space for people to just hang out and have impromptu conversations. And then I add some social lubricant to it where it's ⁓ it's an open bar since noon all day long. You know, until from noon to midnight.

It's an open bar. And also food is Not when the agenda says it's food. It's like you can get food at any time, anything you want. You you feel like a burger, you go get a burger.

Everything is available always. So you can sit with food, with a glass of wine or beer or or water, ⁓ and and chill. So that is like the core thesis of fun. Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah.

⁓ can can I just double on that? again, I even I posted something ⁓ last week. ⁓ I went to a conference and ⁓ they were giving ⁓ healthy food, coffee, water for free throughout the conference. And again, I my job is to help companies run conferences, and I attend at least 30 conferences a year, just because that's where the job is, right?

And Like this was one of the only events where I saw that the coffee is for free, the water is for free, you know, like a lot of these healthy snacks are for free. And it was such a remarkable experience. And I was like, why not many other conferences do that? Giving coffee for free is not expensive.

Having water bottles, giving water bottles, no. You did that. And again, you're the one of the only few people I know who actually provide good food, you know, it looks like for, you know. Not just for one or two hours, but ⁓ just ⁓ tell me a bit more about it.

Like, you know, i i is it a big line item on your PNL when you're doing some of those things? Peep Laja Sure, sure it is. ⁓ but like we are not doing this event to make money because we have a different business model. The event is is marketing and we our event only succeeds if people are actually having a good time, right?

That's the that's the metric. people having a good time, do they tell their friends, I had a great time at spring? what's spring? it's an event by winter.

That's what we want them to feel. So this is a deliberate choice. If you don't do all day coffee, which is a crime, or if you don't even provide food, which is like way too many conferences. I mean most provide lunch, but like there are some very big ones ⁓ no won't name that g give you nothing.

⁓ they are just doing it Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah. Or just very expensive options. Just like you know, when you're trying to buy a water bottle for eight dollars, you don't feel good about buying a water bottle for seven or eight dollars. Peep Laja Absolutely.

And this is this is when you know that this this company is in the business of making money. Right. And then I mean, I attended a big revenue conference in Austin, 800 people. And it had like 120 sponsor booths or like 110.

And I went around, hey, how much did you pay? How much did you pay? Did math in my head. They made over a million dollars in sponsor of it.

⁓ good for them. Also, then how many boo people at each booth? It's about four. So at an eight hundred third person conference, four hundred are sponsors trying to sell you shit.

Wow, like did you did I feel like cattle? Absolutely. It was it was atrocious. And one hour, happy hour, and then that's it, go home, you know.

Younas, CEO, vFairs Ha ha. Yeah. ⁓ I I wanna step back up, you know, when you're trying to promote an event, it st all starts with a landing page. And you know, who would know a landing page copy and what converts and what doesn't bet better than you?

⁓ tell us a bit more about like what should event marketers should test on their landing pages before spending more time on promoting it? Like what are some of the choices or decisions that you would have like to take when you're trying to set up that that page? To promote the event to sell the tickets. Peep Laja Yeah, I mean mo most of it is just plain obvious.

Like you know, ⁓ I have learned that even like a lot of companies wanna put on the up of their landing pages before they have the lineup, before they have the agenda. And it's a it is a good idea, but very few will buy a ticket without the agenda and a and a speaker lineup. So those those things matter. Obviously every event website has ⁓ has those.

It's it's not a surprise. The thing is as as we as we discussed There are so many events. Extremely competitive events are very, very competitive. You need to lead with your ownliness.

Like what what makes this event different? So we spend quite a lot of time explaining the the differentiation and contrasting it against the traditional hotel events. You know, we have a video from ⁓ last year's event that is ⁓ shows you the vibes, you know, gives you the idea of what you can experience. I mean most most people who come to the event are not it's not like cold traffic.

These are people from our email list who, you know, or social media followers. So they're not and I think I I think it's true for most conferences that like very very few people go to an event with that they've never heard of before. They found a landing page and now they buy a new ticket. It rarely happens that way.

Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah. ⁓ given what's happening with the AI world, ⁓ events are happening more than ever. And and I like we get a lot of customers trying to launch their first ever flagship event. And again, you know, i if they break even, they're absolutely happy.

If someone is launching their first flagship event, what should like what they should do to get it right before anything else? Like, you know, ⁓ If if you have to pick the top three to five things that one should really just like keep in mind when trying to run an event. And again, most of them start with that two hundred to three hundred kind of count, like because that's kind of a point where you feel that you can move from dinners and lunch or breakfast to actually running a conference.

Just few tips, like three to five tips that you think if someone is trying to run their first ever. Peep Laja Yeah, it really depends if you are, you know, a twenty person company or you are like Salesforce, you know, 'cause the financial means dictate everything. If you're Salesforce, you don't care. You can throw whatever event you want and you can lose whatever amount of money you want.

It doesn't make a difference, right? So but let's assume you're not Salesforce. You're a s a smaller business where losing money hurts. Then ⁓ before throwing your first event, I would figure out ⁓ a few things.

One is that how can we do this event at a not hotel? Because hotels will triple or quadruple your event cost. And that's the biggest risk, is let's just losing money. What what if you could cut down on costs?

Just don't do it at a hotel. Hotels know how to charge money. They are Like an amazing example of how to nickel and dime you for everything. you want AV?

that's thirty thousand a day. you want Wi-Fi? That's twenty thousand a day. you want, you know, like every little thing you assume is a is a normal thing costs you a million dollars.

So that's one thing. Second is events are very competitive. So what is your only ness? What is the new thing that you bring?

Because if your idea of let's do a conference where we have Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah. Peep Laja A bunch of keynotes and people sit and listen to the talks and then they have a drink and go home. I mean, that's every every event out there. That's that's a dead on arrival, unless you have insane marketing power.

W in which case you can sell any kind of event you want and people will come. But if you're unsure if you can sell tickets, like you really need to answer the question, Why this? Like, 'cause people need to choose you over any other event. If you're in marketing, Just like in in like business competition, the category kings get the most customers.

Like Salesforce and HubSpot get most of the CRM revenue. And same with Sa ⁓ marketing SaaS conferences. Most people go to Saster or SAS stock or one of those large SaaS conferences. Those are the defaults.

You need to be specifically ⁓ positioned against those big ones in your category, let's say. ⁓ so those are the Two big things, I would say. Younas, CEO, vFairs I I I love the hotel part. ⁓ I I I'm I I'm not too sure how to always make it happen, but I absolutely agree that if someone can make it happen, that's a big win both from a financial saving perspective as well as just trying to kind of differentiate yourself from all the other conferences.

I I know that in Austin, ⁓ you know, i i it it is Yeah, like you know, like it has a lot of those options. Do you think that in general those options exist should exist pretty much in most big cities, right? ⁓ whether it's Vegas or New York, et cetera, ⁓ to somehow fit those two hundred, two fifty people. Peep Laja Yeah, mean if you're in a smaller town, it's very hard to find a venue that has all the things that you need.

Because you do need A V and ideally you wanna find a venue that already has it, so you don't need to bring in an external A V company that charges you an arm and a leg. And does it have Wi Fi? Does it have enough kitchen that can support everything? Because if you need to bring in outside catering, again, adds to the cost.

You know, there's all these variables. So a city of certain size matters. Younas, CEO, vFairs True. Yeah.

Peep Laja Also, another thing about cities is like, you know, everybody, every organizer thinks, wouldn't it be convenient to organize it in my hometown? You know, I live in Austin, my inventor Austin because it's convenient for me. I get it. ⁓ however, there are other things.

So if you live in a smaller town with with ⁓ that it's harder to get to, it's a major pain in the ass. People don't want to do multiple flights. One year, ⁓ Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah. Yeah.

Peep Laja This is maybe 10 years ago. We wanted to do an event in Austin, but the venue we wanted wasn't available for the dates we wanted. So we had to look for an ⁓ alternative city. So I chose San Antonio, Texas, because it's close by.

⁓ little did I know that a lot of cities in America don't have direct flights to San Antonio. And and San Antonio is not exactly the most exciting destination to flight to. And so that turned out to be Younas, CEO, vFairs Exactly. Yeah.

Peep Laja That basically made it much harder to sell tickets because people didn't want to take multiple flights, they didn't f want to go to San Antonio. Austin is a destination people want to go to. I mean New York, people always want to go to New York. I mean Vegas is the cheapest place of all to throw events, but Vegas, like a lot of people are like max cr feeling cringe, you know, ⁓ I don't want to go to Vegas, you know?

Unless you're like twenty one or something. Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I I I agree. ⁓ hundred percent. I think destination plays a a big role in in any of this.

I I have I wanna pick your brain on the speakers also. Do you think that speak say if if my CMO is like he wants to attend any conference, let's let's let's say spring or something, ⁓ internally within the company, they always have to justify why I'm gonna attend that. It might be for fun, it might be for networking, but I'm not sure how sellable that is. If a CMO is going to a CEO saying that, I want to go there because it's going to be fun or I will network a lot.

The thing that sells, even though I I I you know I personally think that networking is the key for any any conference, that's where you get the most value. But do you think that speakers list and the content that's going to be out there plays a big role? In selling tickets, what's what's your take on that? Peep Laja Yeah, I I think it does have a role.

less than it had maybe, you know, ten years ago. but I I I think an event without any speakers is a is a very difficult sell. ⁓ there was an event ⁓ I think last year that basically you know kind of like copied Spring. I mean made it their own version, but they they they said, okay, no speakers at all.

And then ⁓ nah I don't know about the selling tickets part, like nobody really talks about that. But like the also the attendy experience was like, I was like too relaxed. I don't know if I would come back here. It was like we're just chilling, you know.

so there is a fine line between, you know, like I do think like the back to back keynotes all day long is a is a dead concept. I mean, it's not dead. I mean there's a lot of conferences like that, but it's If if you're gonna do that, it's it's you could do so much better. So we do just a very few keynotes and actually we're gonna like r reduce the number of keynotes.

⁓ but like the I feel that every day like we do have a two day conference, like the opening should be a keynote because also in the morning people are awkward, they just woke up, they need coffee before they warm up to talking to other people. So you do need a structured program there. Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah. Yeah.

Peep Laja ⁓ yeah. Younas, CEO, vFairs From a networking perspective, you you have two different types of people. I know that marketers, you know, in general are, you know, I I would like to assume extrovert, ⁓ they they may or may not be. ⁓ do you do you sometimes feel that ⁓ did you always just go for the natural flow of networking?

You know, people will just meet with each other, or do you try to kind of force networking as part of the conference? I'm not saying just in general about spray, I'm asking in general about ⁓ what do you think is the right thing to do? Because I do agree that. by the end of the conference, if I if if I've had three, four, five really good conversations, I feel that I have got the ROI back, ⁓ you know, by by being there.

⁓ Peep Laja Absolutely. I mean there are so many peers at every conference that, you know, are working on the same problems as you are and you you often learn more from those conversations than any keynote. ⁓ so what we do is that we group everybody ⁓ into let's call it ⁓ into groups. So we we segment attendees by company size, title and interests.

Younas, CEO, vFairs Exactly. Exactly. Peep Laja And then we s say, hey, all the large enterprise CMOs, you're on this table. And the small company founders, you're at this table.

And the sales people, actually, we don't do salespeople, but like marketing ⁓ PPC people are at this table. So you meet your peers at a table and we give them a prompt, a discussion prompt. And there's a moderator, and then they discuss the topic. And you know, the point is then that they have the same problems.

somebody has a problem, somebody already solved that problem, they can exchange ideas and also make friends like, hey, you are just like me. Hey. Like maybe let's have a beer together after. ⁓ and we do th four to five rounds of this kind of groupings.

⁓ they so when they buy a ticket or event, of course we know who they are based on the LinkedIn, but then they also we ask them questions about their problems, their interests, or topics they're interested in. Younas, CEO, vFairs Very nice. Peep Laja Based on that information we make the groupings. And for each round of discussions we try to make sure that they're meeting new people in each round also.

Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah. Yep. I I I like that part. Again, you you know, we we all know selling tickets for events is hard.

⁓ just just in general, have you seen any best practice of getting repeat ⁓ users to sign up? Well, I I'll give you my own example, right? ⁓ again, I ⁓ attend a lot of events and you know I always have to pick. but but whenever I feel that when you announce your next year conference on the last day of your existing one, and if you're giving An extremely good discount for people to sign up in the next 48 hours or less.

Like I have signed up a couple of times, and then I have realized, by the way, I shouldn't have because the reality is I have a conflict. But sometimes, you know, if I've I've already paid $1,000 and I'm there, and you know, like you you feel good when you are there, you know, it's it's a it's a it's an effort, but you you feel good. But then if I know that, I can just be the next time there as well for five hundred dollars versus a thousand dollar. I I do feel that people might just sign up.

⁓ that's the best time to ha to convert them. Have you tried something like this, or at least as a as an idea do you think ⁓ it might work? Or anything else? Peep Laja Yeah, I mean I have seen I have received those pitches as well, ⁓ at the end of conference and they can be compelling 'cause it's the timing is is good.

⁓ But it's also so cringy. It is so cringy. It's like, you know, one of those internet marketing, buy my cores, get instantly rich type of so personally it just robs me s the wrong way. I've never gone down that route.

Just because it feels icky and I don't wanna be associated with icky. Cause the reason I'm doing my event is for good vibes, good juju. Younas, CEO, vFairs Interesting. Peep Laja And I feel that would ruin it.

Younas, CEO, vFairs That's that's pretty interesting. And I I like sometimes like how the values just, you know, in general overtake the revenue which which again, that's why you have the successful rent. Peep Laja Exactly. It's a it's a personal values thing.

I'm not ⁓ and I might be losing money because of this, but in my heart I feel it's the right thing to do. Younas, CEO, vFairs I I respect you for that. ⁓ Just just your observation, ⁓ because and again I'll share are people signing up late now? You know, which is like you do you sell more tickets more in the last two to four weeks than the first two or three months just because people don't know, you know, like they're just at the borderline.

Peep Laja Absolutely. I wanna say eighty percent of tickets are sold within the two months leading up to the event. so it is like yeah, two months before the event you look at your how many event tickets you've sold and you're like, Holy shit, are we in trouble? And then you know it it tends to work out.

⁓ but it it does add some stress. ⁓ I used to do Younas, CEO, vFairs wow. Huh. I've heard that.

Yeah. Yeah, I was about to say that Peep Laja I used to do this event format where I used to for my CXL live events where I used to book a fancy five star resort in the middle of nowhere, like outside of big towns. ⁓ and I'm responsible for picking up the tab for every room and so on, and this you know, like five hundred room hotels, five star, very expensive stuff. And then if you don't sell out, the hotel doesn't care, you're paying for it anyway.

Now that was insanely stressful. 'cause still people bought the tickets last two months. Yeah, it's a thing. Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah.

⁓ tell me a bit more about sponsors, right? ⁓ do you feel that sponsors ⁓ and I say that because k y you have very, very high bar for a lot of ⁓ like values, ⁓ where where clearly those values matter more than the money. But just your take on sponsors, because you mentioned eight hundred people conference, four hundred them were, you know, somehow sponsors. you didn't feel right about that part.

⁓ but in the Peep Laja Yeah. Yeah. Younas, CEO, vFairs In order to provide even better value for your attendees, sometimes you need money for that. Like what's what's your take?

Peep Laja Absolutely. I mean sponsors are necessary. 'cause without sponsors the what you would have to charge per ticket to break even would would have to be you know, too high. You know, like we charge around maybe I don't know, a thousand bucks per ticket or so on.

It it would need to be maybe not double but ⁓ you know, signific fifty percent more. ⁓ and so sponsors, yeah, help you make the ticket price more palatable for for most people. So they are necessary. Now, sponsors all prefer big events, you know.

If you're Saster, you know, you know, like SASDOC, you know, like all you know, much easier to sell tickets if you say, Hey, we have 10,000 people, you know. Now for a small event it's it's different. and ⁓ there's a cap on how many sponsors can you can even have. Even if you're able to sell more, like the amount of people, 200 people, is just, you know, is there enough to go around for everybody?

Is that worth it? So we do usually up to five sponsors. And we used to try booths, like traditional ones, but it really didn't fit our event concept, which is like, hey, there's a beer garden and we're just chilling and having conversations and then there are corporate boots with AE sitting there lonely and you feel sad for them. So it didn't fit the vibe.

So we haven't done booths now for two years. So what we do instead is like we do we do different things. Like they can bring their activation. Somebody hosted an espresso bar, we had an ice cream machine last year, a mechanical bull, ⁓ But but really the value is like when I say like we're grouping people based on topic and profile, company size, title, and we those discussions are moderated.

So the sponsors can moderate these discussions. Each each discussion round is an hour. And so the sponsor can have ⁓ sit with their prime ICPs for an hour and talk about a topic important to their ICPs. Now that's it's very valuable.

And you know we have a no-pitching rule, but of course it's opt-in, like if they give good advice and so what do you do exactly? Then you can explain what you do and then later follow up in a private conversation. ⁓ so that adds value to the sponsors and it's it fits the flow of the event. Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah.

I was about to say that again we we we we are in the business of of course ⁓ giving software to companies for unevents. The three mostly the three features that that get sold the most, we we call that s ⁓ we we call that sponsored table talks, which is that you know you have a topic and people themselves take a seat on that particular table because they wanna listen to that topic, contribute to that topic and so forth. Of course, no one is trying to sell, but you're discussing the problem for which sponsor in most cases is the solution, right?

So it just becomes a a natural conversation. So I I absolutely agree. The other one, by the way, just just ⁓ just for for for listeners, is when sponsors are running side events, but you as an event organizer allow them to promote the side event as part of your app or your agenda and so forth. Because the hope for these sponsors that your audience would show up.

So they might be throwing, I know a late night, a party or or you know or what whatever the or a dinner and so forth. So ⁓ we have seen sponsors, they're promoting it anyways, but if you charge them as part of your own of your own stuff, it just allows them to help. And if in a perfect world you can give them guaranteed meetings somehow, sponsors are willing to pay premium for it. So these are the three things that we have seen ⁓ that get sold ⁓ the the most ⁓ Peep Laja Yeah, being creative with this sponsor engagements is is the way to go.

'Cause people they don't wanna be sold to, you know, it's it's very annoying if you're walking through these booths and like they're like, Hey, hey, ⁓ they're like wanna pull you in. It doesn't feel good, right? And so if if you Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah, and and sponsors don't want to do that either. Like even from a sponsor's perspective, I think you know, if they there are easier, better ways ⁓ to allow for those activations.

⁓ a few just last last set of questions. You mentioned your ticket as thousand dollars. You know, we we know that Sester has around that thousand dollar range, and then Sastock has those thousand dollar range, and I see pavilion tickets as like is there a price point that just works best when it comes to any conference in journal? ⁓ because I I see most of the Peep Laja Yeah, I mean Younas, CEO, vFairs Seven hundred to thousand is what I see the trend.

Peep Laja It is kind of a there is some sort of a what you can charge type of a thing. You know, you don't want to lose money, so like making it too cheap is ⁓ you know, like you're just leaving money on the table kind of ⁓ there is a difference if it's a one day event versus a two day event. For a one day event you need to charge less. For some of these large conferences like l SAS stock, yeah, they say it's a thousand dollars, but really ninety percent is for free.

⁓ because you the attendee is the product there. They have a thousand sponsors, and I don't know how many exactly, but it feels like a thousand. And ⁓ they the product is you for the sponsors. So even though I mean most people at the event are there for free.

You can get so so many ways to get a free ticket. but yeah, you can also pay. Some suckers pay too. Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah.

And ⁓ like what's your take? Just just put yourself as an attendee. ⁓ do you prefer nowadays attending big conferences where ten thousand people are going to be there? Or do you prefer attending a small two hundred, two fifty people conference just because that's going to be a lot more intimate and and and and so forth and just a lot more manageable.

⁓ how do you see? Peep Laja Yeah. ⁓ I used to go to Saster every year and went like six years straight, you know, and that's like twenty thousand. Everybody's there.

And I I I felt like, everybody's there. Like I can talk to so many people. ⁓ but the downside is like if if everybody's there, the odds that you run into somebody relevant, serendipitously are very, very low. So l you meticulously need to plan out your event, who you're gonna meet, and arrange meetings and dates.

Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah. Yeah. Peep Laja And I'm not into that anymore. I I used to be, but it's not my vibe anymore.

now I definitely prefer smaller events or events that are very targeted. Like I go based on who is there. And it can be two things. It's it's people I already know, so it's kind of a friends reunion, you know, hey what's up?

Or it's it's my I C Ps. It's a CMO event. While CMOs are my buyers, I go there and ⁓ that's That's why I'm going. And I don't really care about the format of the event.

I don't really s see any talks usually. I'm I'm trying to just in be engaged in conversations, if possible, get a group and we sit at a hotel bar and just, you know, chat. 'Cause the best networking is not, hey, I'm a CEO of winter, we do market research. Nobody wants that.

It's just you be a normal, cool dude. And you talk about kids and your marriage and you know, like ⁓ football, yeah. Like whatever. ⁓ and that then people trust you and you build an actual relationship.

Younas, CEO, vFairs ⁓ last ⁓ question, what's your most favorite conference that you actually like to attend every year? Peep Laja Mm-hmm. Younas, CEO, vFairs stuff. Peep Laja That is a tough one.

I I can't say, man. Like Younas, CEO, vFairs Looks like not many. Looks like not many or maybe too many. Peep Laja Yeah, man, like I like my own event the best 'cause I've designed it the way I like events, yeah.

Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah. Okay, may maybe historically, you know, like what conference come into your mind that you were like, ⁓ that was fun, you know, I I really liked when I was there. Maybe it because of your friends that you know. Peep Laja Yeah, I mean as I said, I did go to Saster for for many years in a row.

There was something that attracted me to it. Especially I liked like during COVID when they did an all outdoor event. I loved that. It was like a a music festival, like ACL Live, but it's SaaS.

You know, like that was cool. Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah. Yeah, I I I remember I I'm like you. I went there six years in a row and then I stopped going.

I know why, but like exactly the same thing. ⁓ and again I I know exactly when you were saying like the outdoor one because I was I was there. Peep Laja Yeah. Yeah, now when they do it in that county, met San Mateo, whatever that place that the it's I mean nineteen nineteen eighties calling it they lost some magic, you know.

⁓ yeah. Not my life anymore. Younas, CEO, vFairs Yeah. If it's gonna just too big.

⁓ yeah. Thank you so much for being on the post. If for for our listeners, if they wanna reach out to you, connect to you, what's the best way for them to reach out to you and then connect with you? Peep Laja yeah, connect with me on LinkedIn.

⁓ I'm also on Twitter. Yeah, nobody else by my name, so if you search for Peplaya then that's me. Younas, CEO, vFairs ⁓ thank you everyone for listening in. Thank you, Pep, for being on the podcast.

I really appreciate your time. Peep Laja Thanks for inviting me. It was a pleasure.