David Harris on Luxury Travel, Incentives, and Selling Experiences That Last

Foreign. Welcome to the Enabling Buying Podcast. I'm your host, Paul Kirch and I'm grateful you're here. Enabling Buying is brought to you by klaviyo.com your all in one sales enablement platform. Now I love Kilavia. I'm not just the host of this show, but an active user and a board member. Now we started the show to help anyone selling find a better way to drive impact and engagement in this busy marketplace where we're facing more competition and noise than ever before. We're here to bring you concepts you can embrace to speak to the emotional needs of buyers. It's time to enable buying in a world of selling. Now today we've got a great guest. With a career defined by leadership, organizational growth and and optimization, David Harris brings a unique perspective to the world of luxury travel. As president of Brownell Travel, David works alongside employees, travel advisors and global partners overseeing this, if you can believe it, 139-year-old institution. Now he's deeply passionate about the human element of business and empowering employees and advisors to reach their full potential and ultimately deliver life changing experiences to travelers. And that's what we're all about here on the Enabling Buying Podcast. He's going to share some ways to stand out in this hyper competitive area of business. David Harris, thanks for being on the Enabling Buying podcast. We're really grateful you're here today. Yep. Paul, so excited to be here. Appreciate the invite. Well, absolutely. So you're with Brownell Travel and it's, I will say you had an interesting journey going from banking to food industry. Now travel, what's been that progression? You know, how did this all come about? Yeah, you're right. It took me a while to find the most fun industry on the planet. But yeah, started out back in the day as a CPA with EY and worked there about five years. Went to work for a client who happened to be in the mortgage banking industry and was in that space for a number of years. Then that company ended up selling and so I went to work, of all things, in the food ingredients sales and distribution industry which, who knew that was an industry but turns out it is. I did not. Yeah, yeah, not many people would have, but it's one of those, it's one of those cool American stories. All the little niche industries that kind of keep this country going. So it was a great, great industry. Worked for a great family owned business and it came at a point in time where it was time for the next generation of the family to take over. And unfortunately it was not my family. And so it was time for me to look for something else. And through a buddy just networking, found out about Brownell Travel. And you know, my first question was, is that even still a thing? You know, don't you just get online and book your trip and it's. Or ask AI or whatever. But turns out luxury travel, which is a business that we're in, is still booming. I mean, it's a very vibrant industry. And as I've come to learn, 10% of the world's GDP is based in travel and tourism, which I had no idea. 11% of the world's employees are in travel and tourism. And actually one in three new employees across the globe are going into the travel and tourism business. So it's really booming across the world. And specifically a lot of that, you know, does come from the U.S. that's amazing. You know, I, I would say your company, Brunell, you guys passed the startup stage about 139 years ago, 139-year-old company in this day and age, especially in, in the world of travel, because you know, I like you, you said you didn't even know that was still a thing. I think a lot of us believe that the travel industry has kind of all but dissolved from the perspective of somebody hiring a travel agent, working with somebody to book travel. But that's not true. It's actually. And, and I would say arguably that there's a huge resurgence in a lot of independent reps that are, you know, out there brokering trips and things like that. It's very exciting. So what's it like being part of a company with that kind of legacy selling in the modern age? Because I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of legacy things you've learned over the years, but there's probably a lot of new things you've had to embrace. Yeah, Paul, Yeah, you're exactly right. You just think about, you know, the very first trip, that was a Brownell sponsored trip back in 1887. No electricity, no cars, no airplanes, you know, so that we have iconic photos of our first travelers who took a steamship to Europe and they're over in Europe and you can see them in their three piece western suits and their hoop skirts and, and all the things. And so you just think about all the things that have occurred in the time since, you know, a couple of world, world wars, a couple of pandemics, obviously a number of financial crises and then the technological changes, you know, just been phenomenal. But, but Brownell has from the very get Go been based in with a motto or mission that travel enriches lives. Yeah. And I think we all personally can see that. I mean, if you look back on your family memories and look at the pictures in your house and things like that, so many of them are from just transformative experiences you've had traveling with family and friends. And so I think that's alive and well. Covid may have impacted that to some degree. Just the desire more for experiences versus things. Sure. And we're seeing that even with a younger generation. You know, our average traveler is 39 years old. Well, as you know, you and I talked about how the enabling buying podcast is built around the methodology. Enabling buying in a world of selling. Klaviyo, the company that helped sponsor this and put this on, they're an amazing organization and everything they do is built around selling to the emotional needs of buyers. Because in the end, selling logical facts and figures and, and all the things that we love to tout because they're easy to talk about. They're not the things that really drive people. You are, you said you're in one of the most fun industries out there. And I believe it because travel is such an emotional thing. I mean, business travel, arguably, maybe not as exciting and not as about building memories as a trip around the world with your family, but there's so much emotion built into this. How in this day and age are you capitalizing on that idea of selling to the emotion of the buyer related to this, this world of selling and travel? Yeah, great question. Yeah, I think one thing you're seeing, Paul, and again, it's maybe some, something to do with generational transitions, people wanting, you know, valuing things, I mean, valuing people and experiences more than things in some of that. And so it's, I think there's a natural desire for those things. But our advisors, we have two divisions. One is individual travel advisors who we have throughout the US as well as Europe and Central America. Then we have an incentive travel division that uses the same kind of elevated travel for companies, you know, for award trips, president's club, those kinds of things. And what we're seeing is exactly what you say, that the emotional impact of travel, just traveling together, whether it's a family, multi generation family traveling together, or a company with spouses and those kinds of things. The transformative power of travel is enormous. And really, people these days are looking for travel not so much just to entertain them, but to change them. You know, they really want to immerse in the, the local destinations. They want authentic Experiences, not just kind of the cookie cutter, you know, touristy things. And so our advisors lean into that and really they start the process. We have a process we call Discover More. And it begins with not focusing on a destination or a trip or anything. It focuses on the individuals. You know, what do you desire? What are the things that move you the most? And then from that, our advisors are able to say, well, this, we think this experience or this destination would be amazing for you and your family. And so that's how we lean into just the emotional pull of something they're passionate about. Yeah. And if you were to take that whole thing and break it down, you're not selling travel. Right. You're not selling a trip. You're selling something greater. Is it the experience? Is that, is that kind of the mantra? Sell the experience, sell the memories? Absolutely. Again, it's, you know, we believe travel enriches lives. And so, yeah, you're seeing that play out throughout this industry. Yeah. And anybody out there listening to this, it doesn't matter if you're not in the travel industry. This all applies. And this is where I think so many companies, so many industries fail to connect with buyers because we're out there selling the, you know, the reports and the facts and figures and the revenue growth and all the things that are exciting from our perspective. But the buyer's not buying those things. They're buying something that is emotional in nature. They're buying the what's going to solve my problems, what's going to help me grow the team, what's going to help us keep the door open, or what's going to help us really expand during this exciting time. And I think that's the missed opportunity. So you guys have tapped into something really amazing. You know, you're in an industry that obviously you think about travel. There's a million sources. I can go book a. A flight or a hotel. Travel can be Googled. But are there things that you guys are finding that people are actually not able to find online or that they're just looking for the convenience of working with somebody that can just take the burden off of this process? What ultimately are they looking for? Yeah, I think exactly to your point, Paul, I think they're looking for a trusted advisor, just as you have your financial advisor and you may have a, you know, someone in your legal corner, whatever it may be. The evolution of travel agent in air quotes to travel advisor is just that, you know, the trusted advisor, somebody who has the experience, has the knowledge, who's been to a lot of the places. And if they haven't been, they have colleagues who've been, they know, partners all over the globe. And so, you know, when you're making these decisions of where am I going to spend my vacation dollars? Which, you know, travel is not cheap these days. And depending on the level of travel you're looking to do, it could be, you know, it may not make, it may make emotional sense, but not financial sense in some ways. And so having a trusted advisor who can help guide you through that process and ensure that you have the type of experience you're looking to have I think is critical. And our advisors are, and there are others in the industry, but our advisors in particular are some of the best in the business. You know, with five times the average sales and just very experienced, very high level, high performing folks who've been in other industries. You know, we have recovering lawyers and accountants and have Harvard MBAs, Stanford MBAs and people just who have a real passion for travel and a passion for helping others. And it's neat to see them kind of grow their individual businesses. It's unbelievable because before you and I spoke the other day, I was so oblivious to the fact that this industry was thriving in that way and that there's this level of people out there involved in the sales process. I love it. But I'm wondering if there's some hurdles that the advisors face. And I want to get to the incentive selling here in a moment. But one question I have. Are there areas where you find that the advisors are maybe losing margin? Maybe they're that often they're, you know, trying to maximize the sales and not necessarily the margin that they're gaining and that there's like some fear that comes into play because I've got to think that you're competing against some low price offers out there. I would guess that that's a challenge at times, right? Yes, it certainly can be. Again, I think so much of it goes back to in our case, just knowing your customer and knowing your ideal customer. And so we tend to fish in the pools that they're going to bear fruit. And so if there's somebody who's just kind of, in our case, you know, looking for a just kind of a bare bones budget vacation, you know, that then that's not our ideal customer. So the person that we're looking or the family we're looking to work with is somebody who really does value the experience, does value the expertise and is willing to entrust that to somebody. And in that case, you know, the margins are Fine. You know, we do have, especially with what's going on globally, which, you know, this is one industry, as there are others, but this, this one certainly is hugely impacted by geopolitical events. Yes. Since a lot of our listeners are probably in the sales side of things, you know, there's sales leadership, maybe running a company or active salesperson. They're probably aware of things like presidents, clubs, or other incentives that they can earn within a company where they might get some paid travel. Your incentive division. Let's talk a little bit about the types of projects you guys are actually focusing on. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Again, it's using that same power of travel, the power to transform. And if you think about it, certainly cash incentives are nice and they certainly have their place. But people, you know, your high performers, your employees will get a cash incentive and it'll go to buy the new tires for the car or the washer and dryer, and it kind of tends to fade. Whereas if through an incentive travel experience, if you're traveling with your employees and their spouses or your customers and their spouses, I mean, those memories last a lifetime. And so. And often what we find is it's the spouses that make sure that you are back next year. Yeah, I think you. Last time we spoke, you said that spouses become the sales coaches for the future performance of that family. I love that. CRMs, slide decks, inboxes. Sales teams don't need more scattered tools. They need alignment. Kalavi brings your sales playbook, AI coaching, training and goals together in one platform. For consultative B2B teams looking to close more deals with less confusion and greater consistency. Kilavia enabling buying in a world of selling. Visit klaviyo.com yeah, so why does experience outperform cash? You know, because, I mean, we always hear that, hey, salespeople are motivated by it. All they care about is the money they make, which we both know that that's not necessarily true. So why does experience outperform? Yeah, obviously, again, the cash compensation is important, no doubt about it. But, you know, they could get that from the next company down the road. So if your company is offering an incentive travel program, again, those immersive experiences, those authentic experiences that they could not do on their own because these are very, you know, these are elevated trips. And again, it's the bonding that takes place with their colleagues, with, with you as leadership or owners, there's just no replacing that. And so the, the loyalty factor, the stickiness, the engagement, the motivation, you know, all those things are just enhanced to A very high degree. And the roi, you know, there are different studies out there, but the ROI is way over 100%. So any dollar you spend on an incentive travel program, it's going to return itself beyond what you invested in it. Yeah, there's nothing like winning President's club and then next year finding out you fell short. Because I'm curious, you guys have been doing this for so long and you have such a rich history. I'm curious if you've identified some things that psychologically make incentives stick. You mentioned stickiness. I'm sure there's some things you've identified. Yeah. And again, I think it's just getting out of the day to day, you know, getting in, again, an amazing location. So we might have someone in or a group in Greece or London or what have you, and you're doing these experiences together. You're experiencing the local culture together, you're having these amazing experiences together. Whether it's, you know, eating in Henry VIII's court where he and. And Anne Boleyn dined as a private experience, whatever it may be. These things are bonding you together because they're so unique and they're so kind of over the top or can be that there's just really no replacement for that. Yeah, it's incredible. And, you know, you think about the memories that would come from something like that. I've got to think that you're impacting not just somebody's personal experience, but the culture of a company and a culture of a brand, because that common experience must create something really amazing in those moments. Yeah. Yes, without a doubt. And you see the excitement with the, you know, many of the attendees, some of the attendees may have traveled pretty well, but oftentimes they haven't. And so this may be their first time to Europe or to Greece or Hawaii or Cabo, whatever the case may be. And so you're giving them that opportunity, along with their spouse, that they may not have had otherwise. And again, doing it in a way that is so transformative and that brings such bonding with the company. And so, yeah, the stickiness is there. And then, you know, from the company standpoint, this is not all just out of their goodwill. You know, there is a business rationale, business reason for doing it. And it's all those things. It's the return, it's the engagement, it's the loyalty. You know, if you know that this is something that could happen every year and every year it's going to be a new, exciting destination, then you're going to want to Stay at that company versus one that, yeah, you might get a nice cash incentive, but that's about it. I'd be willing to bet that anticipation impacts behavior building up to that trip, too. Yeah, you announce next year's trip at the trip you're on, and so then again, you got the spouse nudging, hey, we're going to be on that trip. Right? That's right. Exactly. Okay, so this is all great because, I mean, the buyer is obviously emotionally tied to this. However, the person who's ultimately buying the packages and disseminating it to the team that's getting to do these trips may not necessarily be emotionally tied to that A, they may not be participating in the trip. They may just be involved in. In setting it up. So what's the distinction there in terms of the sales process? How are you kind of breaking through those barriers? Because if they're, you know, if. If they were the one going on the trip, then, yeah, they'd be super excited and, oh, I can't wait to, you know, go here, go there. But sometimes they're not even involved in that process after it's bought. Yeah, that. That definitely can be the case. I think oftentimes the people who we're talking to are engaged, whether it's the, you know, the sales executive, the chief sales officer or CEO, or whichever level in the C suite that you're. That we're talking to. Often they are there because, again, they want to have that relation, that deeper relationship with. With their. Whether it's their employees or whether it's their customers. So oftentimes they are involved. But, yeah, sometimes there can be someone who's on the planning team and they're not able to travel typically. And I think there you just have to get into the kind of the financial rationale, the roi, the impact on a company's culture, as you've said, and just focus on those aspects. Yeah, that's great. So when we look at everything you're doing today or everything your company is known for, all these processes and all these strategies that you found that are working and, you know, have allowed you to keep this company going for 139 years? It's amazing stuff. But what would you take away if you were to go back into, like, your previous career? What are some lessons that you would take away from Brownell that you go, oh, this would have absolutely made a huge difference where I was before? Yeah, yeah, great question. Well, hopefully I won't have to do that, but if I did, then, yeah, I think one of the Things that resonates with me about Brownell is, is just the. The power of the culture. And, and some of that resonates out. A lot of that resonates out from our core values. You know, graciousness, being one of those. And so just treating people graciously throughout the community, whether it's your employees, your clients, your partners. And so our core values are passion, integrity, graciousness, innovation, curiosity, excellence. And so, and culture, as you know, in any company is key. And so it's, you know, you're hiring that way, you're. You're ensuring that that's the case throughout the organization. You're not tolerating if it's not. And so that would certainly be a key. And then I think just trying to focus more on the individual as opposed to just the widgets or the numbers. And that's what power, that's what travel allows you to do. You know, just focusing on individual and experiencing life with them in amazing places. Yeah. And you seem to have amazing people working for you. That's great. On both sides of the fence, the advisors, the incentive travel. Are there some things that you identify in top performers, though, that really help them stand out? Are there some areas that you've seen? Yeah, well, certainly, again, this is one of the core values, but passion, you really have to love what you do. Travel is. Is very. I mean, it's a great industry, but it's obviously, it's not all roses. You know, things. Things go bump, flights are missed, countries close due to conflict. When you have, you know, clients in them, you know, so things. Things go south. And so someone who has a deep love for what they do so that they can endure those things and who's very driven, you know, we look for individuals, again, who are focused on people and so know your customer, know how best to lead them and guide them and then have a passion for what you do. Yeah, that's great. Well, so where next? I mean, obviously it's an interesting time. The world's changed a little bit. You know, with AI, there's a lot of companies focusing on automation. There's a lot of tools coming out that I'm sure are impacting your industry as well. There's a lot of noise in the marketplace. It's kind of hard to stand out these days. Are there some things you're seeing today that are your guys are preparing to stay ahead of or areas where you see opportunity? Yeah, so we're like most everyone else. We're trying to figure out how, you know, what AI is going to do for us or to us? And so we're trying to get ahead of that. I mean, as you said, we're 139 years old, but we're. We are. One of our core values is innovation. So we do try to stay abreast of things and take advantage of technologies. And so we have some AI initiatives coming out that will assist our advisors just and be more effective with their clients. And then we are looking to embrace it internally, just as you said. How do we get more effective and efficient? And from a business owner standpoint, how does that allow us to scale so that as we grow, our top line and revenues grow over the years, how do we keep our cost as flat as possible? By leveraging technology and process improvement? And of course, AI could be a huge impact in that. Amazing. Well, we're almost here to the end. I want to thank you so much for being here today, David. This has been amazing. But I did kind of want to close this out with one question. When we look at what's happening in your industry, you mentioned this discovery process and that discovery process we were talking about, the advisors at the time. Are there things in that discovery process that the incentive team is leveraging as well, things that you've found that just kind of are universal across both your areas of business? Yeah, great question. We actually use that process for both sides of the house, so to speak. And so again, it's getting to know that client, client, that customer. What are the most important things to you as a, as a company? What are you trying to achieve through your incentive travel? You know, is your culture not great and you want to make it great, or is your company already solid and you're just trying to enhance that? Are you trying to grow your customer relationships? And so it all starts with what is what matters the most to you as the incentive client? What are the important things? And then from that radiates out, okay, here's the type of program, the type of experience that we think could really help you do that. I love it. David Harris, thank you so much for being on enabling Buying podcast. I mean, this is great. Everything you're talking about applies to just about anybody listening out there. It's just, it's obviously travel is an industry that you kind of have clearly defined that there's an emotional connection with traveling no matter what. But I think every industry has that opportunity and they're missing that. My only last question is, are there things you think a CRO, if they sat in on one of your training sessions or some sort of developmental session that they would be surprised by something a sales leader might be surprised by. I'm not, I'm not sure about surprise by per se, but again, it's, it's just, just like in any industry, I think the most important thing is building the trust of your client and really being that trusted advisor. And so that goes with doing what you say you're going to do, following through and kind of earning that trust over time. So that's we, we focus a lot on that when we're bringing new to the industry, individuals into the industry. I love it. David Harris, thanks again for being on Enabling Buying podcast. Thank you. Paul, Take. Sam.