Steven Nicokiris on Career Transition, Relationships, and Becoming an Accidental Rainmaker

Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to the Enabling Buying Podcast. I'm your host, Paul Kirch, and I'm grateful you're here. Enabling Buying is brought to you by klaviyo.com, your all in one sales enablement platform. So today we've got a special guest, somebody who's going through a transition. And many of you out there listening are going through your own challenge or your own transition. Maybe you're considering making a shift in your career. These are times that create stress, they create doubt, they create fears. But it also creates amazing opportunities and if you approach it with the right mindset. Like our guest today, he considers himself the accidental rainmaker. And his goal is to be himself. And that's how he sees himself winning. See, Stephen Nikakiris is a Managing Director and shareholder within UM, CBIZ Advisors LLC and CBIZ CPAs with over 30 years of experience providing hands on practical business advisory, consulting, auditing and accounting services to middle market, privately held and family owned companies. It's hard earned, but he is widely regarded as a trusted advisor within the global middle market business ecosystem. Steven has built a career on collaborative mindset and unwavering commitment to transparency. He's also a lifelong learner and a dedicated listener. Now he approaches every engagement with a focus on understanding the unique needs of his clients, earning him deep rooted respect of those clients, colleagues and industry peers. He's also a champion of professional excellence. Now, Steven serves as the advisory board member of the Global Chamber of New York City's chapter and the Metro Professional Group, and is a long standing member of Vistage World, as well as serving as an industry partner member of the New York Staffing Association. His leadership extends to mentoring future industry talent informally and formally through his firm's Accelerate program. Now, uh, Steven brings a rare blend of technical expertise, authenticity and compassion to everything that he does. Prior to Joining CBIZ in 1988, Stephen was an audit manager for PricewaterhouseCoopers in New York City. I want you to join me in welcoming Stephen Nikokoras to Enabling Buying Podcast. Stephen Nikokoras, welcome to the Enabling Buying Podcast. I'm so grateful you're here. It's good to see you, my friend.

Speaker B: Hey, nice to see you. Thanks for um, having me.

Speaker A: Yeah, no problem. I mean, I know you're good friends with Charles Bernard who's the CEO of Klaviye and uh, just a great guy in his own right. He introduced us and said, you've got a really interesting story. I know you're working with a, you know, fairly large firm, cbiz, uh, they acquired a firm you were with years ago on the accounting side of things. And you're in an interesting place in your career. Um, for many years you've been doing auditing and now you're moving into more of a business development sales role at a, ah, senior level. Um, there's a lot of people out there listening to us right now that are probably considering transition or going through their own transition. So I hope this, this message leads, uh, to a little bit of inspiration for them and helps them see what's possible. What's it been like going through this process of transitioning in your career?

Speaker B: It's been really interesting. I mean, I like to call myself the accidental Rainmaker, um, because I've been doing accounting and auditing for almost 40 years. Over 40 years, and always really enjoying it, but really loving the people part of it much more than the technical part of it. I've always been a, uh, really solid technical accountant, but I've been, I think, a really, really more, um, solid relationship accountant. And over the years I've been able to actually bring in business through the relationships that have been developing. But having the accounting background really gives me some real insights. When I meet with companies and their business owners and looking at their financial statements, the accounting background gives me kind of the entree into understanding their business. And then I could take that other side of my brain, that relationship side, and try to make some sense out of it and bring some value well above and beyond just the number tumbling. And that's really been really fun. Um, and I realized that that's actually called kind of business development. But I didn't think of it that way. I just thought of it as just kind of learning about my client and listening and just trying to, you know, understand their business.

Speaker A: Is there a new pressure associated once you put a real label on it though? Because I mean, obviously when you're, when you're doing it as part of what you just do, relationship building and earning trust and you're getting business that way, but now you're actually now putting a label on it that it's directly business development. Does it change anything?

Speaker B: Yeah, it does a little bit. You know, I mean, I guess that's my psyche. I think that's maybe the accountant's mentality. You know, an accountant mentality is getting, you know, a solid job, getting a salary and uh, just working, um, you know, in more of a, you know, business development type of role. You know, you know, the, you know, the work is really, you know, it's accountable and you can keep track of, you know, the business that you bring in and that actually impacts your compensation. And it's something that I'm grappling with, to be honest with you. It's creating a little agenda in the stomach, um, and I'm trying to use it positively. But no, it's definitely. It changes a little bit of the mindset.

Speaker A: It does. And it is very funny though, that you were already doing the role. You're already doing the work. CRMs, slide decks, inboxes, sales teams don't need more scattered tools. They need alignment. Kalavia brings your sales playbook, AI coaching, training and goals together in one platform. For consultative B2B teams looking to close more deals with less confusion and greater consistency. Kilavia enabling buying in a world of selling, visit klaviyo.com and now that you put a label on it, you make it something that it's not. And I think that's something we, as humans, you know, we sometimes get bogged down by things that really they're not the things that we should be focusing on. Uh, I'm curious though, after 40 years and all this work in the audit space and advisory work and, you know, you're now making this transition, what's going through your mind emotionally? Because I'm sure that there's been some emotional battles around this.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know, emotionally, uh, you know, I guess I'm thinking about, you know, sad. I'm sad that I'm losing, you know, I'm not handling those clients anymore. I just actually went just literally an hour before we spoke. One, um, of my longtime clients is an iconic restaurant here in town. Uh, it's been, um, really hurt by the pandemic. They were in Grand Central and they, uh, didn't have any outdoor seating. And, uh, the pandemic just devastated them. And they've recovered quite a bit, but not fully. And they've really been a whole rollercoaster we've been going through together. And I went over there literally at 2:30 just to let them know about my role change and that I'm going to be, uh, you know, really transitioning off the relationship. I'm going to be available, but I'm not going to be handling, you know, the details of their financial needs. And, um, you know, they were worried, you know, because I called them and said I'd like to come over and just tell you about a little change in my situation. They didn't know what to expect. You know, either I was sick or maybe retiring or didn't know what. But you Know, uh, you know, they were very happy for me. You know, they said, steve, you know, I think actually you're great at that. And, you know, we, you know, we understand, you know, you're not going anywhere. So we're still going to call on you for any issues. And that's still the case. I'm still going to be involved. And again, I'm going to keep the relationship. You know, I think I'm going to call myself the relationship partner on all these clients where I'm not going to be doing the technical stuff, but I'm going to be available, you know, for any, you know, big, big issues. And also, hopefully new projects, you know, any new products that come along. So I'm going to use that, hopefully to my advantage and continue to keep a relationship with them, because just what I do.

Speaker A: Yeah. And you are such a relationship builder. I mean, you and I had one conversation, I got off the phone going, this guy, I can't wait to go golfing with him one of these days. You know, and, uh, you know, it's like, you. You are someone who builds connections. So I would guess the. On the positive side, you know, you're not losing relationships. You're going to be out there building new ones and.

Speaker B: Right, right. You know.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: That old Honeymooner episode. I'm not. Not losing a friend. I'm gaining a ton. I don't know if you want to.

Speaker A: What else is exciting about transition at this point in your career?

Speaker B: You know, I think I got a little bit of a chip on my shoulder. I really, you know, I'm really, you know, very excited to, you know, just succeed, you know, and really, you know, knock the sock off the ball, um, you know, and try to continue to be myself. I think that's really going to be the most important thing. I think if I just continue to do what I've been doing, you know, good things will happen. Um, can't control the time frame and all that stuff. But, you know, I really, really, um. I want to, you know, just kind of get myself off on the right foot, try to be effective, um, not back down, um, and really be given the tools. Because one of the great things about this firm is the tools. The arsenal is amazing. So I have an arsenal of stuff, you know, in my toolbox that, you know, is really second to none. And I think that's the one thing that's really unique. There aren't a lot of audit guys, you know, who were doing that within our firm. You know, they were selling audit work, you know, necessarily But I'm. I've been out there, you know, generating business in other areas of the firm. Insurance, payroll, it, um, consulting, you know, litigation, forensic accounting. You know, my, My. My brethren are not doing that. They just don't think like that. And so it makes me a little bit of an anomaly. And I think that's why the firm said, steve, you know, we think your highest and best use is not actually being an auditor. You know, we really need revenue. And we think if you're out there full time doing this, you know, good things will happen.

Speaker A: Well, and I think anybody listening to this that's either in transition or considering it, they need to take inventory of what they bring to the table, uh, their past experience. And I think sometimes we get so fixated on a role that we forget that, you know, we've got all these years of experience doing things that prepared us for us. So for yourself, what was it in the auditing role that you think really prepared you to make this leap?

Speaker B: You know, I really think, um, you know, part of it is just relationship. I've always had this idea of building a relationship with my clients. I think that was kind of foremost, um, you know, just listening. I've always been a listener. I really, you know, I like, uh, to listen and ask questions. Sometimes my wife yells at me. She goes, if I'm speaking to someone I meet or a waiter, um, you know, one of our friends at dinner, I'm asking all these questions, and she goes, what is going. What are you, like, interviewing these people? But, you know, these are just genuinely interesting questions that I'm truly curious about. It's not, you know, manufactured. It's not, you know, bogus. It's just, you know, I'm really. I'm just curious. So I asked.

Speaker A: I have two teenagers. I embarrass them all the time doing the same thing. You know, it's like, uh. And I, you know, if I see somebody wearing a name tag, I always call them by their name. And. And, uh, you know, my daughter, when she was younger, she used to say, dad, you always make so everyone. You know, when we go out, you always make everyone feel so good. Now that she's a teenager. Dad, you're just embarrassing. Will you stop talking to those people?

Speaker B: My daughter has a boyfriend now. She's been dating for a couple of months. And he's really. He's a pretty nice young man. I met him a little while ago. He's working in the hospitality industry. And, you know, he wants to get into the corporate environment. And, uh, you Know, he just, we just were having dinner for the first time and just was asking him about that and he was explaining what he does. And um, you know, next thing I know, you know, you know, I have his resume and I sent it out to eight or 10 people. And you know, I'm just trying to, you know, help him, you know, get, get something going in that field. Um, you know, just because I want to, you know, it's interesting and I really want to help. And you know, uh, you know, he was very surprised. He didn't expect that, you know, but it was fun to do.

Speaker A: I love it. And I worked for a guy years ago, uh, great leader, and he had this mindset of always be a resource. That's something he really instill in us. He always said, always be a resource. You know, ah, when you're young, you hear that, you go, okay, yeah, I'm going to take care of my clients. I'm going to serve them well. But no, he meant go further. He meant doing exactly what you just did. Helping people that are, you know, on a job search or helping people that have questions or quandaries. And I have clients that, I mean, I don't do business with them anymore because I'm in a different place, but they still call me and ask me questions or look for advice. And it's like, it's, it's really amazing when they reach out to me because it's like I know they see me as a resource in their life and that's, that puts you in such a different place than just being a rep or a salesperson, you know, it's like,

Speaker B: yeah, you know, I think you're right and you know, and that's really where I see myself, you know, really being a resource and just giving, you know, really give, you know, and I think that giving mindset, you know, trying to, you know, do things that people don't expect in a good way, totally genuine and honest and open, you know, not, not ass kissing or anything like that, you know, really just generally want to, you know, help someone and do right and without really asking for anything in return. I'm really not asking for anything in return. And uh, you know, I, I enjoy doing that. I really get joy out of it and I really feel it gives me, gives me purpose. It's, uh, something and it's, it's fun.

Speaker A: Absolutely. I love it. You know, I mean, I know you're an optimistic person. You're somebody who has like, just a, uh, you're a lifelong learner and you really have, uh, you know, this idea, the idea of evolving. When I talked to you, you were excited about it. I love that. But there's one piece of the equation that I think that a lot of people, uh, out there don't understand, especially in sales and business development and roles where you have to really push yourself. You're an athlete, um, by nature. You know, you grew up in playing sports and you've got an athletic mindset. How much has that helped you in your career?

Speaker B: Oh, a ton. A ton. You know, uh, I, uh, was, I was a good athlete. I played, um, Division 3, uh, baseball. I played high school basketball and you know, very competitive high school. Um, I really do think, you know, that juggling. I, uh, also married my high school sweetheart and so she was a great student and she really helped keep me on the straight and narrow. Uh, I've always been kind of, you know, that student athlete. Um, and I was always a really good athlete. Not the best athlete. Um, but I outworked the competition. And I say that even now. I really, you know, I'm not the best accountant. But nobody is going to outwork me. They are not going to outwork me. And I give my clients, I like to say give them my shaving time, you know, really, really think about them and try to do right by them. And um, and I think they appreciate that and they know that. So, yeah, being that athletic and also very competitive, I want to win. I really, really want to win. And I'm willing to pay. You know, I realize there's an investment. You have to invest your time and energy in order to win. That's what I believe. I really do believe you need to do that. And so I do that, you know, and I expect to win.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. And, and I'm sure that uh, that idea that you outwork the competition that's carried you through your life and uh, something tells me you don't like to lose.

Speaker B: No. I remember a couple years ago I got a nice opportunity and you know, as you can, as you know, you know, recommendations from clients are the best referrals you could get. Nothing better than that. It's really yours to lose. So one of my really long term clients recommended, uh, me to a, uh, very nice business, um, in the, in this area, in the electronics company. And uh, um. So I called the owner of the electronics company and introduced myself and he never didn't know me and apparently I was very late to the game. They were very late in the process. They were not happy with their existing accountant and they were meeting other accountants and, um, it was clear that I was very late and we was talking and talking and you know, it started out very cold. He really didn't seem interested. Um, but you know, we just kind of had about a 15 or 20 minute conversation. Things opened up a little bit at the end of the conversation. He goes, can you give me a couple of referrals? You know, I'd love to speak to some people to get an idea of, you know, what you do. Um, you know, so I did, um, and he got back to me about two or three days later. He said, steve, you know, we asked the other accounts for referrals. You got back to me quicker than they did. And your referrals all got back to me quicker than they did. You're now ahead of the other people. And the comments I got from your referrals were amazing. I, I'm hiring you. You are going to be my accountant. And I won that client as a result. And I think again, it was the dedication, the hard work and really getting back and following up. I mean those are critical skills in sales and business development. And it's something that I take pride in, really following up with people. And when I say I'm going to do something, do it. Uh, hopefully not to a fault, but in a positive way.

Speaker A: Yeah. So one thing that you mentioned to me when we spoke last, um, I think you originally, originally met Charles through a Vistage organization. Your Vistage meeting. You know, groups like Vistage are amazing out there. They're helping CEOs, uh, and business leaders, you know, be more successful. But there's other organizations out there. In, throughout your career, have you gotten involved in other organizations? And are there things that you would tell anybody out there listening, hey, get involved, do this, do that. Are there things.

Speaker B: I mean, Vistage has been the longest standing one and really the most investment that I made, um, in any one organization. Because, you know, a lot of people in my world, you know, they join networking groups and uh, Vistage is not a networking group. You know, there is a networking component to Vistage, but it's really about learning and growing. And while it's really geared to CEOs and while I'm not the CEO of my firm, they have a subgroup they call trusted advisors. Um, and again, it's really about giving. Um, for many years I was investing some time and energy into Vistage, but I wasn't getting, I didn't get not one piece of business, not, not a stitch. And the managing partner in my firm would call me into his office every year and he said, steve, tell me how much business you got out of Vistage? And I'd say, I got zero. You know, after year one, year, uh, two, he'd call me and Steve, how'd you do? How you doing with Vistage? How much business did you get? I got zero. He said, okay, that's it, get rid of it. It's a waste of your time. I said, no, I don't think it is. I just got to figure it out. Give me some time. I'm going to figure it out. Year three Steve, come on in. Tell me about your Vistage. How much business you got for Vistage? I got nothing. He goes, that's it, you're done. Get out of Vistage. No, I'm going to figure it out. I just, I'm going to get it done. Now the pandemic hits. All of a sudden people are dealing remote. You know, that's ppp, an employee retention credit. I jumped all over that. I was very. Got myself very educated on that. I was all over the Vistage network, speaking of Vistage members all over the country giving them m advice and guidance. And all of a sudden business came, business came and it came and it came and it came. And that same person who was telling me to get out of Vistage, he tells me now, steve, what could we do for Vistage? You tell me, what can we do? You want to do this? You want to do this? You want to host a meeting? I host about four or five meetings a month in my office right now, at least.

Speaker A: Nice.

Speaker B: Um, and I just actually hosted two this week, uh, earlier this week. And it's been amazing. But again, it was giving, it was really giving. Um, I'm involved in a couple other organizations, but, you know, I mean, Vistage by far has been the most enjoyable one, most rewarding one for me. And it's continuing, you know, meeting guys like Charles, who to me I consider like a brother from a mother, another mother, you know, just a really good, good person. Uh, also a giver and very smart, amazing, you know, and it's really been a great journey and continuing.

Speaker A: He's just a great guy. But, uh, that's so true. You know, years ago I was working in the marketing research industry and I worked for the Gallup organization for 10 years. And I always jokingly say they kind of hid us from the world. So in Gallup, you didn't know the market research industry existed outside of the company because we were so focused on the brand. And it was a great company. But then I left Gallup, and I started working in other companies. And I remember I started this sales job with this company in San Francisco, and. And they said, oh, yeah, we want you to go to this, uh, this event tonight. And I'm like, okay, market research event. Sounds fun. And they sent me, and I went. And I was like, I met all these people, and I thought, oh, this is cool. And I was talking to this woman. She was on the board of directors and of the group. And I said, how do. How does one get on the board? And she goes, oh, it's volunteer. You know, if you're interested, I can introduce you to somebody. I'm like, oh, this is my first meeting. I don't think that's for me. But I kept going to these events, and eventually I'm like, hey, so tell me about, you know, what's it take to get on the board? And she goes, well, I can introduce you to some people, and we recommend you. And. And, uh, she goes, the best thing to do is start volunteering at these events. And I'm like, okay. So I would go to these events, and I'd say, do you. Do you guys need any volunteers? Yeah, we need somebody to hand out, uh, you know, lunch tickets.

Speaker B: Yes, you told me about that.

Speaker A: And I'm handing out tickets, meeting all these people, and the next thing you know, okay, we need somebody to check people in and give them their badges. And behind the scenes, I'm meeting all the leaders, and I'm meeting all these people, and I'm building these friendships. Next thing I know, I'm getting asked to be on the board. Next thing I know, I'm. I'm getting, uh, you know, board positions, and then I'm president of the board. Then I'm getting, uh, you know, invited to do the. All these other things. I would tell anybody in a sales, business development, or leadership role, get out there, get involved. Find an organization that is relevant to your industry. It will change your life.

Speaker B: No, you're right. And again, I apologize. You asked me the question. I didn't answer correctly because there are several organizations I am involved with.

Speaker A: Oh, no, you're good.

Speaker B: You know, one is called the Global Chamber. Again with Charles. Charles is a member of the Global Chamber, and he asked me to get involved, and I opened, um, up my office.

Speaker A: I think he leads the New York chapter. Right? Doesn't he lead the New York. Yeah.

Speaker B: So now I'm on the board all of a sudden, after a year, year and a half, uh, you know, he invited me to join the board. So I'm on the board of that organization. I'm a member of a networking group called Metro Professionals. I've been a member for four or five years. All of a sudden, one of the leader of the group asked me, steve, you know, you've been really visible and active. I'd love for you to be on the board. So I'm the board of that. So again, along the same lines, you know, when I get involved, I really jump in full feet ahead. I don't want to just be a participant. I want to be an active participant and really be a leader, you know, and that's really the, you know, again, that same mentality. I think, you know, you know, work harder and just, you know, again, all with the right intentions. All just trying to do good, do right, and help other people.

Speaker A: You know, there's an old adage, it's not who you know or not what you know, it's who you know. And, uh, you know, on the surface, that sounds so, you know, cliche. It sounds so arrogant. But it is really true that, you know, you build a friendship with somebody like Charles or, or somebody else in the industry and they can introduce you to people. Next thing you know, you're finding opportunities galore and you don't even. You don't always even equate it to the organization. And then, uh, at some point you take inventory, you go, oh, uh, you know, that opens so many opportunities for me. So, yeah,

Speaker B: I was thinking about when I was young, I am the ultimate introvert. I am a really unbelievably introverted person. I remember, you know, being 12 or 13 years old and, you know, if I saw, ah, you know, a girl that I thought was pretty, I would literally go on the other side. I'd walk on the other side of the street, you know, because I just was embarrassed. And we used to have. In, uh, my neighborhood, I grew up in a Jewish community. A lot of bar mitzvahs, going to bar mitzvahs. You know, everyone would get up and dance. I would never get up and dance. I was embarrassed. I didn't think I knew what the hell I was doing. Um, just a really, really shy person. And I am still. And I know people say, no, you're not. Oh, man, I fight it. I fight myself every single day. You know, I love being home alone. I love golf. I mean, that's not a, you know, I play baseball and basketball. I love that too. But, you know, I really have, uh. I'm very much an introvert. And it's uh, it's just, uh, you know, really what I am and, but I enjoy people, so it's a kind of an interesting battle I play with myself.

Speaker A: So in a world we live in where things are becoming more and more automated, um, very transactional, it just seems like people are, you know, leaning into AI and there's a lot of noise in the marketplace. Let's talk about, you know, you're. You're this relationship guy in this world where it seems to be leaning more away from relationships, sadly. How important do you think is it to lean, uh, into relationships and what are some things that you're excited about? Because I think you are in a unique position compared to a lot of people out there.

Speaker B: You know, I mean, I realized that, you know, AI and technology are certainly got to be, you know, weaved into the discussion in a big way. You know, I'm being involved in things like this. I'm really trying to embrace, uh, being out in the marketplace, you know, going online using AI. Uh, you know, there's luckily, again, the firm has got a major resources that I am educating myself. You know, trying to get, you know, much more involved with social media and, you know, trying to be, you know, you know, proactive when it comes to that. It's really, really important. You know, I still gotta believe in my heart of hearts that relationships matter. Um, you know, when the time relationships don't matter, I will not be successful. Um, I just don't think so. I think that's, you know, that's just who I am. It makes me unique and, um, that's a differentiator in my mind. Um, but again, I have to embrace using technology and AI is going to be critical and leveraging that in order to do more of what I'm doing is going to be something that, um, if I don't do it, I'm going to be missing out. So I do plan to take advantage of it as much as I can.

Speaker A: I think relationships will always matter, but I think how doors are opened is where the challenge lies. Um, because a lot of people are ignoring messages. They don't, uh, you know, they're not as accepting of just an email introduction anymore. Uh, you know, there's so much noise out there and we're starting to like, tune things out. I think that's the challenge we need to overcome as relationship builders. I think relationships will always matter, but getting there, I think is where we really, the work begins.

Speaker B: Uh, again, I'm hoping, you know, is trying to, you know, trying to focus in, you Know, in thought leadership pieces, you know, trying to figure out, you know, where. Where the buyers are, you know, really where the buyers are, not where the would be buyers are, but where the buyers are and, you know, trying to, you know, really show. I mean, I have a lot to offer. 40 years of experience, just their own. There aren't people out there that got that. And, you know, the business acumen and the understanding and the empathy, you know, I think is. Really comes across, you know, when I'm, you know, when I get in front of somebody and you're right, you just got to get in front of them. Uh, you don't get in front of them, you don't get an opportunity. And that is always the magic rail, and that's to be learned. I mean, I guess that's really something I need to figure out over the next, you know, several months, you know, really how you get the best opportunities.

Speaker A: Well, and I love the fact you're with a brand like CBIZ that really is supporting this. You know, they're giving you this opportunity. This is not, uh, anything except for that, an opportunity, and it's putting your skills to use at a time when the company really needs it. You know, CBIZ is, uh, they're no small player in the space, but revenue, uh, is king today. And I, uh, think what you're stepping into is going to make a big impact, so it's wonderful.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, thanks. You're right. That's all we need to do.

Speaker A: I thank you so much for, for being a part of this. Being a part of the enabling buying podcast transition isn't easy, but people out there listening that are going through it, I think they're gonna take away some great insights. How can people reach out to you? Cause maybe there's some potential clients that are listening, going, I need to work with this guy.

Speaker B: Oh, I'd love that. I'd love to speak to anybody about anything. Uh, you know, the best way to reach me is, uh, either, uh, you know, through. Through my, uh, through cbiz, you know, my email, which is. Is, uh, uh, my first initial last name@cbiz.com. it's S N I C O K I R I S c b I z dot com. They could always, uh, look. Look me up on LinkedIn. Uh, they could always reach, uh, out to me, uh, 212-790-5716. Or love to speak to anybody. Really love to reach out and just explore opportunities and see if anything I could do to help.

Speaker A: Steve and Nick Kakiris, thanks again for being on the Enabling Buying podcast.