The Modern Education Workforce with PowerSchool (Part III of PowerSchool Series)

Speaker A: If there's an expectation that we're going to be coaching teachers and really training them, uh, to the best of our ability, then that, that starts with your tools, when you're hiring.

Speaker B: Hello and welcome to episode 39 of Education Excellence. I'm, um, Michael Evan Epstein, the creator, producer and host of this podcast. For those of you who might be new to the podcast, Education Excellence is a safe, nonpartisan national forum for discussing complicated, cutting edge issues in education. We provide real life examples of actions you can take to solve problems you face every day. Our last two episodes featured guests from our collaborator and underwriter of our fabulous four part series, an organization that is truly transforming education. Of course, I'm talking about PowerSchool. PowerSchool recently released a landmark study, its 2024 Education Focus Report, which features insights from more than 1600 school district leaders, teachers, parents and students. In that episode, our, uh, first you heard from Ryan Imbriale and Chris Cirillo. They talked about student driven personalized Learning. In the second episode you heard insights from Richard Hughes and Tracy McGowan on Bold Leadership and Data. Today we have two more guests from PowerSchool who will be discussing how to build a modern education workforce. So let's meet them right now. First up is Richard Fernandez. Richard is Director of executive engagement at PowerSchool and has been a public educator for more than 20 years. In addition to his role leading Executive Engagement, he has served as a Superintendent of schools, assistant superintendent, high school and uh middle school principal, as well as a teacher and a coach. He also serves as the Director of Leadership for the Texas association of Latino Administrators and Superintendents, as well as sitting on the Board of Regents for, from Hartwell University. Welcome to Education Excellence, Richard.

Speaker A: Thanks for having me.

Speaker B: Also joining us today is Jeff Pelzel. Jeff is a Director of Education Engagement at Power School, supporting all power Schools solutions in California and other west coast states. Prior to joining Power School, he spent, uh, 28 years working in public education in Washington and California and began his career as a high school math teacher before transitioning into various leadership roles at the school and district levels. Welcome to Education Excellence, Jeff, thank you

Speaker C: for letting me be here.

Speaker B: Okay, we're happy to have you. As we just said, uh, the focus of our discussion today is the modern, uh, education workforce and it's an important section of Power Schools 2024 Education Focus Report. And Jeff, if you could kick us off by talking about this important section of the report and maybe some of the biggest takeaways, uh, we have from that particular section.

Speaker C: Yeah, certainly. I'D be honored to talk about this. You know, we began, uh, looking at the modern education workforce by addressing three questions we lobbed out there. We asked, you know, what are the top challenges and priorities your school system is facing? Is the current mainstream of what we call a, uh, one teacher to 25 student model working for students in terms of their learning? Do you see value in alternative models? And then the third question was, how can teacher teaming models support a new generation of teachers and offer leadership opportunities for veteran teachers? What came out of this report in terms of, when we think about this new generation of teachers, uh, three things stood out. They want a sustainable work life split, which I think has been an aspiration for us in education for a very, very long time. Um, they want the chance to work in teams and grow in their profession. Of course, always a challenge in education is that good, um, wage in terms of earning that livable wage. Um, and I guess then the fourth thing I'll just throw in there that came out of this was the use of technology to really open up possibilities for, uh, student learning. Um, and of course that connects to what role is AI going to play in this process? When you think about this, it boils down to teachers collaborating, have a choice in voice and what they're learning, how they're learning, how they're teaming. Uh, when I think about this in my work in California, um, I think about two different school districts that I work with. One of them has engaged in, uh, the pilot, and they're actually implementing our AI solution called Power Buddy. And, um, you know, what really stood out to me in these conversations is the amount of time it's saving teachers in their lesson planning and the ability to really personalize the learning for students, uh, which is kind of this, uh, utopia of where we want to get to. And I remember there's a teacher, probably 25 years, 26 years into their career, um, who was featured in a, uh, video podcast with him. And he said, and this quote directly was, this is going to prolong my career, uh, because it's saving me time and it's a much more manageable opportunity. And then the second district, I think about what they're doing is they're actually in the midst of beta testing a solution that we have called coaching and mentoring, um, which is the ability to support, I think, about supporting our new teachers. They come into this profession, some are coming from external careers, uh, some are just fresh out of college and that ability to coach and grow their practice. Um, and this solution, again, it involves AI, which I think is really exciting and just to kind of describe what it looks like. You have a teacher who's being mentored and a coach, uh, during that conversation, it records your conversation and then that aligns to your evaluation tool, your instructional framework, whatever you give it direction to, and then actually spits uh, out feedback for the teacher around what was successful, what are some potential next steps, even drives them towards professional learning that would support them. So when you think about this modern education, uh, workforce idea, those are kind of the big uh, takeaways from uh, this report.

Speaker B: Okay, let's follow up with that. Um, you talked about classroom instruction design and the part that AI might play in that. And um, I just wanted you to go little bit deeper, Jeff, and talk about some other parts of classroom instructional design because that obviously, uh, you know, has applicability to teachers and students and administrators. So if you go maybe take a little deeper, dive into that, that would be good.

Speaker C: Yeah. You know, I think we're in an era in education. The pandemic, uh, obviously had a great impact on uh, teaching and learning and you know, what are the possibilities for what the classroom can look like, what can the model look like? I think we've had a lot of aspirations for many years to engage in um, teaming. I can remember when I was a middle school principal, I mean this is probably 15 years ago, and I had a true, what I would call an inclusion model where my gen ed teacher was co teaching with my special education teacher in the same classroom, uh, collaborating and designing those lessons together, uh, grade level teams, uh, working together in an elementary setting where you might have one teacher who is taking the lead on math, another one might take the lead on reading, another one might take the lead on science and again they're sharing their kids around what that looks like. I think we are in this unique opportunity, um, where there's a lot of accountability in education. I think that sometimes creates a little bit of anxiety around uh, these teaming models because ultimately NAND scores come back, they're reported and you know, who gets credit for those outcomes or if the outcomes aren't, uh, as well as we want, then how do we know how uh, to support the growth of those students? So there's a lot of different models out there, um, you know, uh, pushing in in terms of, you know, additional supports for teachers with intervention models and those kind of things and you know, partnering ah, with the community in terms of bringing in outside resources and those kind of things. I think right now we are in an era where what really the focus Is, is how do we create the most engaging model for, uh, students so that it really optimizes their learning? Um, because that's a challenge for kids in this era is how do you keep them engaged?

Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. So, um, I'd like to turn to uh, Rick now. And you know, I think one of the things that Jeff is bringing up is the idea that things are changing so rapidly, it's really unclear the pathway that school districts and individual schools and principals and teachers and students should take. And I guess my question to you, uh, Rick, is twofold. One, how do you go ahead and kind of promote change where change is needed? Because there are, you know, a lot of folks are very resistant to change. And what have you been, you know, you, you've got so much experience as a superintendent and a principal. How are you, you know, finding the reaction of um, those who might not be engaged directly in the classroom? Uh, but, but from principal, from the point viewpoint of the principal or a superintendent with these, these kinds of changes that power school is advocating?

Speaker A: Well, I mean, I think, uh, the first part of how do you get change in a fairly, ah, resistant um, industry like education that's been change averse is a difficult question, um, because most people instruct or coach just like they were taught or how they learned best, right? And so we're always uh, falling back to what we're most comfortable with, even if the students are not necessarily, um, aligned with, you know, how they learn versus how we teach. I think the other thing that we underestimate is it is very difficult, extremely difficult to replicate great teaching. And so we take for granted that because we team and we place, um, teachers together and PLCs and you make them go watch a lesson or two, uh, and that they're going to be able to replicate what that looks like in their classroom. And that usually doesn't work for a variety of reasons. But I kind of look at it as, you know, when you hear a great speech, right, or at a conference or TED Talk or whatever, you um, get excited and you think about how you're going to use it and you know, you get to the point where you're going to implement and realize, I don't, I'm not the same type of leader as the person I heard speak. Uh, maybe I'm not as charismatic, maybe that's just not what I do well. Well, the same components, uh, affect instruction. So you really have to understand what your teacher's strengths are and lean into those. And it's not a, hey, let's just take our best performing teacher and everybody just replicate exactly what they do. Typically that doesn't work, um, because it's more than just whatever the lesson design was. It's also their relationship, their charisma, um, they're leaning in to what kids, um, are entertained by. So it's a number of those things. And then trying to get some movement from that is I think you have to leverage your technology as best you can to bridge gaps. I, um, think you have to allow teachers to fail. We always encourage our students to, hey, failure is okay, meaning, you know, you grow from failure. Right. Um, to take risks. But in the world of high stakes testing, sometimes we don't give those allowances to our staff. Um, so as far as how do we turn the corner on that, well, we kind of have to realize and pinpoint that our own mindsets are what's probably inhibiting us the most. And what you're really asking is how do we create new habits and how do we remove the habits that we don't want? Well, if we knew that, um, we'd be billionaires. Right? There's many industries, weight loss, exercise, all those industries are based on how do you change habits. And so it really comes down to what are the things that we can ask folks to do. The small things, the bite sized pieces that are individualized for them, yet helps them build a new habit, a new way of looking at something and coach them along the way, even through the failure.

Speaker B: Yeah, those are good points. Uh, Rick, so before we go to break, I want to ask you one more question. And that is, you know, you're talking about building a modern workforce. Um, you know, the teachers in general are not particularly well paid for the responsibility that they have. And um, the current scene in terms of teaching, I think you probably, there were some difficulties trying to attract people to the profession when they feel there are so many difficulties in terms of students today, um, and also in terms of social media. So I guess when you're looking at the workforce of tomorrow, and that certainly includes teachers and others, um, how can you attract young people to the education workforce?

Speaker A: Well, I mean, it's definitely difficult. Um, I think the adult behaviors are one piece. Nobody, uh, wants to go to a district where the board is dysfunctional or the administration is dysfunctional, or there's constant upheaval, turnover. Um, nobody's going to want to do that for, you know, 50 grand a year, 60 grand a year, whatever that that that pay is. So I think the adults who are leading and guiding the district need to be very cognizant of what people see and the perception and how they interact with each other. Uh, obviously there's going to be disagreements on how, you know, the best way to go about educating kids, but that really needs to be handled, you know, behind closed doors. It just feels like every time you turn on the, uh, news, there's. There's an issue, uh, within a school district, whether it's politics, but ultimately the adults need to set the standard. That's number one. And then number two, we have to start thinking outside the box of what else are we going to offer teachers besides salary? Right. Ah, we always felt like we boxed in because we can only have, you know, so much. You only have so much money to raise salaries, you only have so much money for benefits, and then that's okay. Well, our hands are tied. Um, I would argue that we should look into the private sector and see all the different ways that, uh, the private sector incentivizes employees. Um, and we're not as boxed in as we think. I think it goes back again to the mindset is we have to get outside of what we traditionally have done and start looking for ways to attract teachers, retain teachers, and understand that the most valuable experience nowadays may not be, uh, I got an education degree. There may be other pieces of experience that are more valuable, that fit better with our generation now. Right. And their needs and how many jobs they're going to probably hold within their career. Because it won't be like us, where we have, you know, a couple of jobs, maybe some people with the Same company for 35 years. Very unlikely that that's going to be the tradition, you know, the tradition, um, moving forward. Uh, so we have to adapt to that, and we have to understand that, and we have to stop thinking that. Okay, well, that's everybody else, but not our education industry. No, we need to adapt right alongside with business. So I would say, look at what business is doing. What can you take from them? What can you get creative with, and at the end of the day, just behave responsibly, knowing that your prospective teachers are out there watching and trying to pick what's the best district for me to land on. So I think those are just a couple of things off the top of my head.

Speaker B: Well, I, uh, really want to emphasize what you just said about looking at education in a way that, uh, other industries do it. I think there's an understanding now, as you pointed out, that, um, we're just. I don't think we're ever going back to the days where it's just expected that somebody is going to stick with a company for, for 40 years. Okay. I mean, it's going to happen that, that, you know, with particular individuals, but not to the degree that it happened in, in my generation or your generation. It's just a different time. And if you, you know, if you have kids, you know that. So, uh, that's a really good point. Okay, we're going to take a quick break right now to hear a word from our underwriter, uh, and our sponsor. And we'll be right back. So don't go anywhere. PowerSchool. In today's rapidly changing K12 landscape, careful decisions about technology investment are so, so important. From addressing chronic absenteeism to promoting positive behavior. You're going to need an organization like PowerSchool. Take PowerSchool Student Success Cloud, for example. That's a resource that gives the schools the tools they need to meet students where they are, to streamline data and to gain insight, to improve attendance and to enhance behavior outcomes. You can learn more about this and learn more about PowerSchool@, uh, PowerSchool.com. Foreign. And we're back and we're talking to Richard Fernandez and Jeff Pelzel from Power School. So, you know, we talked in, in the first part of this episode about, uh, building a, uh, workforce for the future, a modern workforce. And I kind of have a couple questions, uh, in the second half for both of you. And the first question is, I think it would be helpful if, based on your experience, you could cite some examples of folks who have used PowerSchool or use the, um, findings of PowerSchool or the tools that PowerSchool has to really kind of make a positive change in teaching or learning. Um, I want to be very open ended in this and cite whatever examples you want, some positive examples of success stories. So Jeff or Rick, either one of you can begin and the other one can, uh, bolster what the other one said. So begin anywhere.

Speaker C: Well, uh, you know, I want to focus actually, because we're m in this modern workforce, um, section of the report around, uh, you know, there's a school district that I work with that has been on this journey to implement our various talent solutions. You know, and what you hear from most district leaders in the era in the area of talent or the HR department is everything is very paper based. It's not modern, it doesn't have a good feel. And you know, Rick was talking about how do we attract people into, you know, into our school districts? Well, if you're a 22 year old and you go to a school district to apply for a job and it takes you five to ten minutes to find out where that, where the actual job is posted. And then you find out that you now need to drive into that school district to pick up on a packet of papers that you then now need to drive home and fill out that packet of papers and then return it back. That doesn't have a very good feel in today's, uh, era of technology. And so, you know, I worked with a number of districts, but the one I can think about in particular, you know, they've implemented our, um, you know, our job board, which is very modern facing, has heat maps, all things like that. Uh, they've implemented the applicant tracking and record system which modernizes, gives them a checklist. Like literally you could, I've heard a assistant superintendent coin it as pajama onboarding. Like literally they can onboard from their pajamas in their house. Like that is really, really great. Like they don't have to. And they can see everything that they need to be able to do. If they need to change their W2, they can do that in the system. It's really. And then the last piece that they're working on now is they're implementing our evaluation tool, which is again, evaluation traditionally in education has been something done to people in the system. It hasn't felt collaborative in nature. And now we have resources and tools where an administrator can go in. Yes. Into a classroom and they can actually script in a platform what they see, but they can take pictures and load it in there. Uh, the teacher can load evidence. It really shifts something being done to you to being done with you. Um, and I hear them talking about. What you hear these assistant superintendents in HR talking about is they now see their staff, uh, collaborating, their people smiling. There's not stacks of evaluations together. It's confidential. And there was a district who talked about it was saving them 15 hours a week by modernizing what they're doing. That's a lot of money. When you think about an hourly wage, that's a position or maybe a position and a half. And it allows them to get to other things. So, uh, that's what I wanted to just talk about is there's a, there is a definite, um, vibe right now in education that especially in the world of hr, it's time to modernize that to attract this younger generation and those coming from the private sector where they're used to using technology, uh, to make, uh, education feel more 21st century.

Speaker B: Those are some Great points, Rick.

Speaker A: Yeah, I would, I mean, I think Jeff hit the nail on the head there. You know, I would add that instead of thinking of our, of our districts as different departments. Right. Um, the role of attracting a teacher, staff member and retaining one is really everybody's role. Um, because from the time that you onboard somebody and introduce them to either the valuation system or whatever components are going to be, um, a part of their, their daily job, uh, description, um, how that goes, how well that goes, or how poorly that goes immediately makes an impression on how they feel about their new district. Right. And so if, if there's an expectation that we're going to be coaching teachers and really training them to, uh, the best of our ability, then that, that starts with your tools, when you're hiring, um, and every piece of that process. And if that process is disjointed, well, then the coaching process is disjointed. And it's an overall sense of, ah, we really don't have our stuff together. So therefore, how do we expect teachers to really be in the work and not disjointed with their activities? Um, so I think that looking at it through the lens of this is an entire ecosystem. So from our HR solution to how our teaching and coaching, coaching and teaching to um, how we evaluate staff and then what does that mean for our student outcomes? So are our best teachers having the most, um, um, success with students? Is that even matching up? Or do we need to tweak what our professional development looks like? So it's all a piece of the same pie. Um, and so the more solutions that you have that interact with each other, the stronger data sets you pull and the less siloed information that everybody has to stop and go to this one place to look for this and then go to another place, like, that's what is really making it a, uh, struggle for districts. Um, especially when, when dollars are tight and staffing's tight, the more efficient, uh, the more parts of the ecosystem you can view through one lens, the better off you'll be. So I'm, I'm hoping that, you know, districts really start to take a look at. From the time you start recruiting a teacher, the process of how they're going to, um, turn out was a great educator, mediocre educator, or an educator that you wouldn't want in front of your students. Well, that's, that's on us. That's on us from the, from inception. So I think we have to start looking at it a little bit differently.

Speaker B: Yeah. And that's A good point that it starts when you begin uh, recruiting people to um, the particular school district. And so the final question I want to ask each of you is whether or not you've heard about situations or what you think about this idea, which is to, to start earlier and identifying prospective teachers. And by that I mean, um, rather than waiting for them to graduate from college with an education degree, is working with ah, community colleges and local four year schools to get them into the school system either in a formal apprenticeship program or simply, you know, being the, the student teacher if you will, in the largest sense, but not waiting till their senior year necessarily, uh, but looking to attract the best talent that perhaps the community college or the university has or a situation where the person's not even in college. I just want to, I just want to get your thoughts on that idea because you know, we're talking about building a, uh, workforce for the, you know, future and so just want to get your thoughts on that.

Speaker C: You know, I think uh, I mean the reality is we got to do anything and everything we can to uh, create pipeline. And the reality is, I think um, some ways I think we missed the mark a little bit in education. Even in terms of what a teaching degree looks like. You don't do your student teaching practicum until the end of your college piece and then it's like, is it a right fit for you or not? I, I really think we should begin those conversations. I know in my district, I mean it's only been two years since I've been out, but we were partnering with our community, uh, college, neighboring colleges to try to create pipeline, especially, especially in the world of special special education, speech pathologists trying to think differently, to get ahold of them, to invest in them, get them to do some of their early practicum experience so that they could see, and this goes back to Rick's point earlier. The culture in your district is going to shape whether that person from that little bit of a, uh, maybe it's a six week practicum experience and if that's really positive and they sense like, wow, this is a district that really cares, the teachers get along, the administrators are very supportive, the district, the school board, everyone is plugged in. There's a very, very good chance they're going to want to return to that district because I don't think it's only pay that drives people to want to work in your district. I really believe, as Rick highlighted earlier, culture drives everything. And so I, to your point, I think yes, we need to start earlier we need to partner with them, um, because in these hard to fill positions, uh, we got to look at doing things and honestly just leave, make sure there's no stone that we haven't turned over.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think again, you know, trying to just get as creative as possible. Um, like if you look in the private sector, right, anytime there's someone having to make a move, typically the company, uh, sets them up with a realtor, sets them up with, um, some folks that know the area. And if you're particularly, we're talking to students right out of college, you know, what would it, what might that look like if there was a more intensive, um, guidance on just the, the life. Right. So, hey, you're going to make, you know, $59,000. And here's where, here's where the cost of living is, is most affordable for teachers within our district. Here's, um, you know, a realtor that really focuses in, on helping our staff. Um, financial planning. Like, you know, all I ever saw heard about was, you know, a 403B, somebody sitting in the. Well, we probably need. Teachers probably need a lot more help than just somebody passing out a 403B pamphlet. Probably, um, need to really lock in and see. All right, if this is your salary and this is what are the steps you can do what other jobs, if teachers are doing some other, uh, jobs that make sense or some other, um, things to make some little extra income. Because I do think districts are going to get to the point, and then some of them already are, where they're allowing certain people to go remote and also, uh, certain teachers to have other gigs to supplement their income. Um, because some of the cost of living is really pricing out, uh, your teachers and your teachers, your bus drivers, all kind of staff. So again, maybe the corporate, uh, folks have a little bit better hold on what that needs to look like, and maybe we can steal some things from them.

Speaker B: Those are all good points. And also, you know, the, the idea of starting early is particularly applicable in rural areas, which, you know, rural areas are facing a shortage in a lot of industries, especially healthcare and education. So I think that those kinds of solutions would pay off in rural areas. So that's a good way to end it. And. But before signing off, I'd like to thank Richard and Jeff, uh, for being such really terrific guests on Education Excellence. I want to thank our assistant producer, Sam Hofmeister. We urge you to subscribe to Education Excellence. That's right, subscribe. Because that's the only way that you can make sure that you won't miss any episodes, and if you're subscribed, you will get all four parts of our terrific series that we're doing with PowerSchool. This podcast is free, as you know, and we're available on, uh, Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify, or really anywhere that you get your podcast. We welcome and value your feedback, ideas or questions about the podcast. You can email me at Michael Levine epstein gmail.com or just ping me on LinkedIn if you'd like to be a guest, marketing partner or sponsor. We want to hear from you and we'd appreciate it if you'd give us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts and tell your friends and colleagues about us. It really does make a difference. Thanks for listening today and we'll see you next time on Education Excellence.

Speaker A: Sat Mhm.