AI's Evolving Role in Education with Chelsea Lopez

Speaker A: When we talk about AI with younger students, they still need that AI literacy. We might not sit here and say, this is what artificial intelligence is and this is how you should use it, but still meeting them at that, at that lower level of like, oh, why do you think it suggested this to you? And kind of helping them build some of that foundational knowledge. Foreign.

Speaker B: Hello, and welcome to episode 41 of Education Excellence. I'm Michael Leven Epstein and I'm the creator, producer and host of this podcast. For those of you who might be new to this podcast, Education Excellence is a safe, nonpartisan national forum for discussing complicated, cutting edge issues in education. We provide real life examples of actions you can take to achieve creative solutions to problems you face every day. Today we're going to be discussing one of the most important, exciting, and somewhat controversial issues in this space. The role of AI in the education process. This is a complicated and somewhat existential issue, especially on the K to 12 level. And fortunately, we have just the right guest to guide us through our journey today. So let's meet her right now. Today's guest is Chelsea Lopez. Chelsea is a digital native with more than 5 years experience in the K8 education level. Currently she is the director of Education Advancement at the Social Institute, supporting schools to empower students to navigate their social worlds, both online and offline, in positive and higher character ways. Welcome to Education Excellence, Chelsea.

Speaker A: Awesome. Uh, it's so nice to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker B: Well, we're really happy that you're here to help us discuss AI today. I'd like to begin with discussing what you consider some of the most common misconceptions about AI.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. Um, when we think about AI, there are a lot of misconceptions out there, ranging from what AI is to, uh, how it works, how teachers are using it, as well as how students are using it. And so when I go around and I ask teachers, what do you think is AI? The answer I get most often is ChatGPT. Um, so I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions of what that is. And AI in general really refers to any technology that is designed to perform tasks that normally require human intelligence. And when you step outside of this realm of ChatGPT, we realize that it's actually built into everyday tools and has been around longer than November 2022 when chat was released. If you think about Gmail's, Smart Compose or Netflix recommendations, or even using Google Maps, all of that is AI. And so a lot of times we realize that most people are using AI on a daily basis without even realizing it. So I'd say that's the number one misconception we can continue going on. And there's the idea that AI will replace teachers or that if students are using AI that they're cheating or it's going to weaken their critical thinking skills. And, and some even believe that AI only benefits well funded schools. But there's a lot of data and research that actually breaks those misconceptions. And we're even seeing a huge rise in free and open source tools that educators have access to, even in, under resourced environments.

Speaker B: So let me follow up on that, Chelsea. So m. You know, the AI is playing obviously a part in every single industry and certainly education is way up there and where it's playing a part. But are you noticing a little bit more acceptance of AI by teachers and uh, superintendents and students, uh, say in 2025 than there might have been in 2023?

Speaker A: Yeah, I definitely do see that. And you're right, we're seeing AI being used in healthcare, it's being used, um, in media and making movies, and we're seeing it in transportation. So you're seeing it in a lot of different places. But we are definitely seeing more of that being used in education. As of now, um, there's some statistics that came out that said 60% of educators are saying that they are using AI in some ways. Um, and so we're seeing more of this mix of people who are becoming more accepting of it. But we're also still seeing a lot who have some hesitation around, you know, what this looks like in a school building. Um, and as we continue on, you know, even apps that students are using. So students are using beyond ChatGPT themselves, right? They have, you know, the My AI tool in Snapchat. Um, and you're just seeing a lot more AI integration even into social media apps that students are using. So it's really kind of taken a hold in a variety of areas that we're seeing.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's a great point you just made about AI and social media. I want to ask you because I know that first of all, the social institute where you work is such a great organization and doing so many great things, not only in the AI area, but overall in education. I, um, think you've been involved in some of the training that the Social institute does on AI for teachers. I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit. What does that training involve? How are teachers responding to the training.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, um, some of the research that we found is that, uh, nearly 70% of educators say that they haven't received any meaningful PD on how to use AI well, and so that's something that we've really taken a deep dive into as we think about supporting our educators because of how much AI is growing. And so in trying to think about what professional development would be most beneficial to educators, one thing we had to think about is what is some of the biggest hesitations that that comes down to for teachers. And a lot of times it comes to fear and uncertainty. So I hear from educators a lot that they're scared of AI not because they don't want to be innovative, but more so because they've heard all of the worst case scenarios. Right? There's cheating, there's deep fakes, there's misinformation. And I've talked to other teachers who say, you know, I don't know anything about this or I don't even know where to start. And that is totally valid because it's really hard to engage with something that feels overwhelming or unfamiliar, especially when you have a lot on your plate. And so when we think about how are we supporting educators with this professional development, it's thinking about how do we walk them through what AI can and can't do, especially in the classroom, how can we use it to really save time without sacrificing the quality of our work? How do we talk to our students about responsible and ethical use? How do we build school wide practices that feel safe, transparent and aligned? And another big area we're seeing, educators needing that support is thinking about the safety and ethical implications or implications of using AI. Um, because educators are being asked to make decisions about AI tools that raise questions of is this tool protecting my student data? Could this output be biased or inaccurate? Am I modeling the right behavior for my students? And so you really have to break down AI into a variety of levels. Whether it's foundational skills, whether it's, you know, practical applications, ethics and responsibility, or even thinking about leadership and strategy and thinking about all of the different areas that we can address when it comes to pd, because AI is huge. And there are a lot of different avenues to think about when you discuss it.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. And I think that one of the things that, um, the average parent or person in the public may not quite understand about AI is that when you're talking about AI in education, I think you have to be kind of specific as to what the application is. In other words, you know, for school administrators and superintendents and state departments of education, they're using AI to help them do their everyday jobs more productively. And that's different than using AI in terms of curriculum development, um, and as a method to help students learn. Wouldn't you agree that sometimes it all gets blended into one kind of mix of AI, uh, and education, when it's really utilized in different ways by different stakeholders?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's, it's always interesting because when I, when I, you know, I get to travel a lot and talk to schools and districts around the country, and that is that big question is, well, how are we supposed to use it? And this idea that we are all going to use it the exact same way, um, you know, a director of curriculum might have a different idea of how they would use AI versus a special ed teacher versus even an ELA teacher. So there are a lot of different avenues to go when it comes to using AI. And so it's understanding that it's, you know, it's. What's. What is that expression that people always use, it's not a one shoe fits all kind of scenario, um, and really expanding how we think about its use rather than saying this is the only way to use it.

Speaker B: Right. So maybe you could give us an example of, you know, you've maybe run across a teacher who was very hesitant about using AI as part of the curriculum, um, or in terms of getting across some particular lesson, um, be it in social studies or mathematics or whatever it is, and how maybe after you had a discussion with that teacher, uh, that teacher changed his or her mind about using it because they saw the practical advantages. So could you, you know, can you give an example to our listeners of maybe a success story that the social institute or you in particular have had in this area?

Speaker A: Yeah. So whenever I go to conferences or I go to meet with schools, I always like to remind everyone that, you know, that I mentioned that myth earlier. AI is going to replace teachers. And that's not the case, really. We think about AI as like a, uh, behind the scenes teaching assistant. And it's really here to help with the heavy lifting, to make our work more efficient and personalized. So as educators, we can spend more time doing what only we can do. And that's building those relationships and supporting our students. And so I'll never forget, I was at a conference one time and we were talking all about AI. And one thing that I love to do, especially in a room of educators who have a variety of experience with AI, is say, what are different ways that you have used it? And we start really low. Some will say, again, I've never used before. Some will say I use it for personal reasons. Like I'll tell it what I have in my pantry and my refrigerator and have it help me come up with a meal or I have had it help me plan a trip to those who are saying how they use it in education. And so um, you hear all of these different ideas and then I like to kind of go to some of those teachers who have said, you know, I've never used it before, I don't know what to do. And I will never forget I sat with one educator and I said, what's something that you're working on right now? And she said, you know, I had a, ah, parent come with me and they had some concerns. And you know, I feel like I'm trying to respond to this email but I feel like it's not coming across the way that I want it to. I'm not sure that it's as professional as it should be. Um, I'm stuck here and it's putting a pause on my response. And so I said, okay, great, what if we take out all, you know, personal identifiable information and we kind of put this in ChatGPT? Let's say we what you received and let's put in just your initial thoughts and just kind of see where we're at there. And let's ask it how can we make this a more professional email for a parent who has concerns where I am addressing those concerns but also, you know, expanding on the points that I'm trying to make as an educator of what I've seen. And so she's like, okay, we'll go ahead and we'll do this then. So she, she puts in the email, she puts in her initial response and Chashi BT came back and it was like, here are things that went really well, here's how I might rephrase it. And I said, you know, we can even take this a step further and say is there anything from here? Because we're going to adjust it so let's make some adjustments. Let's put this back in and say is there anything that this parent could misinterpret from the conversation that we're having? And so she asked the question and then ChatGPT came back and it was like, you know, this is an area where uh, a parent still might have some questions so you might provide a little bit more clarity there. And so as we're going through it and she's saying, oh, one, I can actually just have a conversation. I don't have to, you know, just sit here and say, take it as what it is. You can go back and forth. And she's like, wow, that's just. This is the perfect email. I can. I feel comfortable sending this email now. And so it was just one of those light bulb moments of, it doesn't have to be. It's writing my lesson plan. It doesn't have to be. You know, it's. It's creating a whole curriculum for me or anything like that. Sometimes it's even just starting at smaller points and helping us express ourselves in a variety of ways. You know, I. I still coach cheerleading, uh, at a local high school in my area. And, you know, I feel like in education we always get a lot of ideas from others and we get a lot of opinions, and so sometimes you can't always say what you want to. So it's nice to have really quick thought partner, especially if you don't have another colleague in the room to help talk you through it. It's another option that we have here. And again, it's just a way to think about how to use it. Starting even smaller than, again, writing a whole lesson plan.

Speaker B: I think that was a great example. Chelsea, I want to ask a question that I really haven't heard asked that much, which has to do with, um, really young kids, say in kindergarten or first grade. Um, you know, I think. I think by now we know that kids at that age probably know how to text. And, you know, there have been all sorts of stories about kids ordering things online. And I'm wondering what's your sense about kids who were 5, 6, 7, and 8 Understanding the concept of AI? Uh, I'm not looking for a specific answer. I'm just looking for kind of your thoughts about that.

Speaker A: Yeah, so when I think about AI, I think about it the same way that we talk about social media and technology with our students. And it's very much this idea that it's similar to getting a driver's license. You don't just turn 16 and you get the keys to the car and you say, have at it. I'll see you. See you when you get back. Great job. Um, no, we. We start with driver's ed, and they get a permit and a license with, you know, certain restrictions. And it builds on each other. It's developing these milestones. And it's the same way to think about, you know, getting devices, getting social media, and the same thing with AI, because if you think about students, you know already learning how to text. I, I think I saw some research that's students are getting devices as young as kindergarten, first grade, second grade. And so AI is being integrated into those devices already. If they are buying things, whenever we see that you might also like that is AI or when they are typing and there's an autocomplete, um, that is AI. So I think when we talk about AI with younger students, they still need that AI literacy. We might not sit here and say, oh, this is what artificial intelligence is and this is how you should use it. And kind of expanding on that, but still meeting them uh, at that lower level of like, oh, why do you think it suggested this to you? And kind of helping them build some of that foundational knowledge as they're kind of growing with AI because it is something that is here and it's something that's not going away.

Speaker B: Okay, that was a great answer. And we're going to take a short break right now, but don't go anywhere because we'll be right back. And we're back and we're talking to Chelsea Lopez of the Social Institute. Um, you know, I want to follow up on our discussion before the break. Chelsea, um, so to your knowledge, are there any AI literacy, um, courses being developed, um, by the Social Institute or any organization? And the reason I'm bringing this up is that I, um, was just at a healthcare conference and one of the um, people that I met there is a person who's developing a healthcare literacy, um, program for kids and um, trying to roll it out in various school districts. And um, I've also come across financial literacy curriculum um, for students. I'm wondering if you know of anybody developing an AI literacy program for students.

Speaker A: Yeah, so, um, you know, one thing that we notice is that AI literacy is becoming more prominent. Um, I always say, I know you mentioned financial literacy and you know, AI literacy is just as important as financial literacy and digital literacy at this point in time. And you are starting to see a lot, a lot more organizations who are trying to again demystify AI and kind of start teaching students and educators and families more about this. And so while I can't speak to every organization, I uh, can definitely talk about the Social Institute. And so as we're developing AI literacy, we want to take this whole school community approach because every part of a school ecosystem plays a role. And so when we look at what that looks like, we can start with students. And so we deliver or create these gamified conversation based lessons through Our winnat social platform to help them build those modern life skills. So thinking about that AI awareness, a lot of times we start thinking about specific AI lessons. And so that might be about how to fact check and how to verify, how to understand how AI works for us. What does that mean about data privacy, AI powered scams, and so much more. And so you start having those conversations with students, and then we expand that to our educators. And so here we have created an offer, um, asynchronous and synchronous pd, that helps teachers really build confidence to think about how to navigate ethics and privacy concerns and use AI as a teammate, not a threat. Um, one of the courses that, as a previous special ed teacher myself, that holds near and dear to my heart, um, is thinking about how do we master AI for differentiation and think about how do we use it to personalize learning and meet students at different levels, Especially when we have maybe 30 kids in a classroom and they might be at a variety of reading levels that are maybe 2, 3, 4 or more apart from each other. And so we think about differentiation, we think about different tools to use, um, how to use prompts, how to help it gamify, understand bias and hallucination. And then we also want to incorporate families and so providing them with resources to keep those conversations going at home. Because one thing that we have learned and, you know, our years of being around is that students need to be able to hear that same message from schools and from families. And so having this common language around, it really helps support the overall community when it comes to AI. And then just a, uh, simple message to kind of think about as schools are trying to think about AI literacy is that as schools we can really ignore AI and fall behind, or we can try to lead with this clarity, confidence and character so that we are preparing our students not just for class, but also preparing them for life.

Speaker B: Yeah, thank you for that. So I wanted to, um, bring up, ah, an issue on AI, um, that we briefly talked about, but not in depth. Um, and it's based on my attending iste, uh, last year, um, and obviously when you're talking about education technology, um, AI was a huge part of that, uh, conference. And the session that drew the most attention was, um, a teacher going through a scale of what she considered to be acceptable use of AI versus unacceptable use of AI. So just, you know, roughly speaking, what, what it was, is an acceptable use of AI was, you know, putting in keywords and getting AI to, uh, spit out initial, um, thoughts about, you know, if it was a History lesson about, um, European history. And on the other end of the scale was having AI write the entire essay. And it provoked so much discussion. The room was packed and so much discussion. She distributed the. The checklist. Then, uh, you know, this ranking scale, whatever you want to call it, to everybody. And I would say there was absolutely no consensus on any of it. And there was actually a lot of heated debate about it. And so I'm just wondering your thoughts about that.

Speaker A: Yeah, so it's really interesting because AI policies are becoming more prominent conversations in schools and districts. And again, it's one of those. Not one shoe fits all, but there are certain things that we can align on. Right. If a student put into AI and said, write me a paper on world on propaganda of World War II, and it prints out this creates this paper, and that student uses that, we recognize that that's plagiarism. And so as schools and districts are having these conversations, there's this idea of, does it look the same in every classroom? Does it look the same for every teacher? And that answer is most likely no. I mean, it could be depending on your own policies. But, you know, how a student and ELA might use AI is going to be different than a student who might use it in a math class versus a student who's using it in an art class and things like that. And so when we talk about students use and, you know, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable, it really does all come back to that idea of AI literacy and how we're teaching students to use it. Um, you know, and lots of conversations with students, we've learned that they are using it in really thoughtful ways. Um, they are trying to use it to help them apply for scholarships. And it's not here, write my essay for the scholarship. But, you know, this is what the essay topic that I have to write. And these are three areas that I'm thinking about. Which of these topics of writing do you think would, you know, mesh best with the scholarship opportunity? We've seen students who are using it to explore career options. You know, this is what I'm thinking about studying. What can I do with this? In math class, they might be using it to create practice problems for their upcoming test. And, um, you know, so in social studies, they might say, you know, what are some examples of propaganda that I can, uh, you know, use to help come up with an idea so it can be still a thought partner? It's not meant to be a shortcut, but again, that's where we have to teach students what that looks like because they can use it to enhance the way that they learn, the way that they plan and they think creatively. But it's helping them understand the difference of using it as a be all, end all and saying, you know, this is what it said, this is what I should use versus again, using it as a thought partner to help us come up with different ideas or maybe, you know, condense what we're thinking and things like that.

Speaker B: Yeah, thank you for that answer. That was really great. And we have time for one more question. And what it is, is, you know, um, this is the uh, second time that the Social Institute has been on, uh, education Excellence. And we always want you back because you're doing so many exciting things. And I wonder if you could kind of tell us, you know, broaden this out a little bit, tell us how the AI fits in with the social, what the Social Institute is doing in terms of its mission and just, you know, how the Social Institute can play a role in education that our listeners might be interested in. So it's your forum and talk about it in any way you would like.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. You know, a lot of times when people, if you've heard of the Social Institute before, it's always been about trying to help school communities really support their students, their educators and their families when it comes to navigating social media and tech in healthy, high character ways. And um, you know, AI is still a part of that. AI is just a new form of technology and that is becoming more and more prominent. And so as we are working with schools, we're helping them develop that AI literacy, we're helping them learn where it can fit in to the school day. Because, you know, the more that it's talked about, the more students are able to comprehend and learn from it. So, you know, whether it's providing students with lessons again that open conversation, lessons where they're learning from each other on AI literacy and a variety of topics with that, or it is supporting the educators and helping them understand what is AI and how they can use it to even supporting schools and districts and coming up with their own AI policies and understanding that you can come up with a policy. But we live in this ever changing world where technology and AI is going to continue to develop and adjust. And so we have to remember that our policies are going to do the same thing. So helping schools and districts learn how to create policies and how to continue to adjust as times are moving on, or again, even supporting families and helping them understand what your policies are. Um, one of the biggest things I see schools will say is, you know, there's just confusion. We created an AI policy, but nobody's on the same page. And that's something that we do here at the Social Institute as well, is help bring your entire community to that same, to understand that same page. So, um, when we think about AI, it's just another way that at the Social Institute, we are helping support schools, families and students with that tech literacy, AI literacy, and so much more.

Speaker B: Yeah. On that note, Chelsea, we're going to wrap up this, uh, episode and thank you, Chelsea, for being such an incredible guest on Education Excellence. I also would like to thank our assistant producer, Sam Hofmeister. We urge you to subscribe to Education Excellence, so in that way you will not miss a single episode, uh, such as this one, where I am sure after you guys listen to this episode, you're going to realize, yeah, we better subscribe so we don't miss episodes like this. Remember, it's free and, and it's available wherever you get your podcast. We welcome your feedback at all times. Ideas or questions for the podcast, you can email me at michael.levenepsteinmail.com or just ping me on LinkedIn if you'd like to be a guest marketing partner or sponsor. We want to hear from you. We'd appreciate it if you could give us a five star rating on itunes and tell your friends, uh, about us. And remember, it really does make a difference. Thank you for listening today and we'll see you next time on Education Excellence.