Fashion and Sustainability - what do consumers want now, and how can brands benefit from it?

Speaker A: I think the brands that are going to win will be the ones that can prove their sustainability journey, not just tell it. So a lot of brands these days start seeing this LCA analysis as a little bit of a, uh, PR stunt. But I think the best way to use this LCA analysis is to embed that into your product story to show where each garment was manufactured, where the yarn was produced, where, where it was stitched together, and how it's shipped to the end consumer. It's just about using that information to your advantage.

Speaker B: It's the E Commerce Master Plan podcast here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e commerce business, cutting through the hype to bring you inspiration and advice from the e commerce sector and beyond. Here's your host, Chloe Thomas.

Speaker C: Hello. And it's great to have you here. Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests in this episode. We're getting deep into fashion and sustainability. We're going to be looking at how consumers are trying to become more conscious, what their behavior is at the moment around sustainability, what they're doing, what they want, what the barriers are to them. And then we're going to flip it and, and talk about how you as a brand can take advantage of and learn from that to take action in your business that will grow a better business. My guest's gonna be taking us through three key actions you should be taking. Um, we'll also be diving a little bit, not too heavily, into the legislation that's coming in in sustainability and how to deal with that as well. Really love today's guest. She really knows her staff and she's super enthusiastic in the space as well. Um, so you're gonna get, I think, inspired and get lots of good ideas from this one, too. Make sure you listen to the end of the episode because she was really good in the top tips round as well.

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Speaker C: And now to introduce our special guest. Vishy Ramchander is the CEO at reloom, a platform where conscious consumers meet verified sustainable fashion brands. Founded in 2025, they've been featured in four Forbes, Business Insider, Vogue Europe and at the Drapers conscious fashion summit. Plus they already have over 20 verified brands on the platform. Hello Vishy.

Speaker A: Hi Chloe, how are you?

Speaker C: I'm good. Really excited to be talking about this topic with you. Um, such an exciting topic. But before we get into all of that, how did you get into the world of E commerce?

Speaker A: I actually just stumbled on upon it out of frustration. Honestly Chloe, I think I was a conscious consumer long before I was a founder. Um, I kept trying to shop more sustainably but I felt the experience was quite broken. I mean I grew up in an Asian household. I grew up in India and Singapore where you know, you have this whole use and dispose mentality when it comes to fashion and fast fashion was quite prevalent. And since moving to UK and then Europe, I've kind of educated myself around the world of sustainability and how I can contribute towards living a more conscious lifestyle myself. However, when I started trying to be more conscious I, you know, there was greenwashing everywhere, no way to really verify claims and no single trusted place to go. So I think that frustration was my seed, if you will. And Reloom. Previously we called it habit. SAST was built to fix a exactly that. For consumers like me, we essentially verify brand sustainability credentials using a five pillar rubric which is EU aligned and connect those verified brands with consumers who actually want to shop more responsibly and more consciously. So I think that's how I kind of ended up here just feeling that

Speaker C: frustration that so many other people is, I want to do better, but I have no idea how to do better.

Speaker A: Yeah, a real struggle. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: And it remarkably continues to be, which is why we need services like yours. And would it be fair to say that, that whilst you are bringing those brands together on the platform, you're also enabling those brands to promote themselves with more rigidity elsewhere?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think one of the things is with brands we offer two kind of areas of support. One is primarily around their impact when it comes to sustainability and their imprint,

Speaker F: as we call it.

Speaker A: So that's the five pillar rule, which is Planet Animal circularity and transparency. So we help them evaluate where they stand right now, um, as well as areas of improvement. So any low hanging fruit that they can tap into and to show to the consumers exactly how they are improving their sustainability scores and imprint. But we're also helping them with other things like, you know, storytelling their journey as a, as a founder or as a company and also explaining how they are in their journey and where they are in their journey of transparently recording their sustainability imprint to the consumers. Because I feel more consumers now are demanding more information and I think that's where we're also trying to help that gap, which is helping brands communicate that story and that sustainability record in a fun way for consumers to digest.

Speaker C: So how are you seeing, you know, the consumer needs around sustainability and fashion changing? Because like we all see the vintage got really busy, but there's, there's more nuance to that and there's more. That's, you know, you know, the advice to brands isn't simply do a partnership with Vinted. There's, there's a lot more going on. So what's, what's the real story of how consumers now in 2026, what is it they're wanting from their fashion and sustainability?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's a really interesting question. And I think right now the dominant consumer behavior is still cheap and fast. I'm sorry, I think that's kind of what it is at the moment. But I'll tell you why it's going to change. I think fast fashion still remains a $40 billion annual industry in Europe alone, but I think the cracks are showing. So our own paid consumer community survey that we sent out shows that 77% of consumers say sustainable fashion is too expensive, which sounds like a barrier, but it actually tells you that there is intention there to improve. And the intention exists, but the friction is price and clarity. So I think, you know, one of the things is, I think it was Deloitte that published their survey Sustainability Consumer report back in 2023 or 2024, which found that 61% of people don't adopt a more sustainable lifestyle because it felt too expensive and 46% cited a lack of clear information. So the problem isn't apathy, I think it's accessibility and trust. And I feel like this will definitely shift in the future because of two things. One is consumers are being more educated around what sustainability means to them and are more open and vocal about demanding that from brands, which is a really good, kind of, really good thing, I think personally for uh, consumers to be more aware of their decisions. But I also think, EU regulations, um, will also help brands make that first initial push to be more transparent about their data. But I think when you think about just consumers as they stand right now, cheap and fast is still the way. However, there are cracks of consumers demanding more from brands, uh, that are starting to show, in my opinion.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think that makes so much sense from what I'm seeing going on as well is that we've got the consumers who are, they want to do better, they say they're going to do better, but then they still go and buy the cheap and fast.

Speaker A: Yeah, but this is, but this is. Chloe, this is exactly the problem, right? It's about accessibility and sustainable fashion isn't accessible yet. When I started this journey, I was looking to buy a bridesmaid's dress for my best friend's wedding. And this is exactly where the frustration came. I put on Google sustainable evening cocktail dress and the first 30 results were all fast fashion brands claiming to be eco friendly and sustainable. So it's like, you know, I will have to buy from them because that's what's accessible to me. But I feel like if there are more options available and more data that is more transparent, I feel that more consumers will be able to confidently make those alternative decisions and who knows, might even be able to pay a little bit extra, you know, to have something that lasts longer than in their wardrobe. But I think that's exactly what you said. It's accessibility that's the problem.

Speaker C: And it's uh, that it's also that, that understanding of the sustainability decisions you make because there is the, you know, the only perfectly sustainable dress is the one that's already in your wardrobe or, you know, along those lines. So there's, if you're purchasing fashion and trying to do it sustainably, arguably you have to have an opinion about plastics versus silk versus cotton versus wool versus recycled plastics. And you have to have some idea of which bits you care about and which bits you don't, which, unless the brands are talking about it more, the consumer is just going to get confused because they're not going to get that educational piece.

Speaker A: No, exactly. Yeah, exactly that. I think, I think that's also why we've split it into the five pillars, um, which is People, Planet, Animal, circularity, transparency. Because if, say you're, you're someone who's vegan, you can come onto our platform and say, no, I do want to sort my brands through the filter of animals, being four or five out of five, because that's super important to me as my values. So you as a consumer can also come to a platform and shop, just not based on your budget or what you are wanting to buy for, but also based on your values, which I think is quite important. And hey, but you can also trust the brands when it comes to what they're saying. Um, so that's also an added level of importance. Uh, when a consumer has that purchasing decision they want to make, it's about making more sustainable brands also accessible to them whilst giving them the right amount of information at that time of purchase.

Speaker C: It is, um, I feel like my entire 20 plus year career we've talked about barriers and removing the barriers to purchase and all of this is about removing the barriers to purchase. And the reason the fast fashion are winning is because it's easier. I mean, yeah, we've just got to find ways of making it easier and educating at the same time. So I love all that. So anything else that as brands we need to know about what consumers want, want right now or what they're like, how that's likely to change in the next five, 10 years before we go on to what the brands can do about it?

Speaker A: Yeah, I honestly think that the shift is already underway. I think the question is moving from how do I get it cheap and fast, like we just discussed, to how do I get it relatively affordable, reasonably fast and from a brand I can actually trust. And I think the EU is accelerating that shift through regulations. So through the digital product passport rollouts, the DPP rollout in 2027 with full compliance across fashion and footwear expected by 2030 and beyond. So when product level sustainability data is legally required on every garment conscious of shopping stops being a niche behavior, it ends up becoming a little bit more of a norm. And I think, like I said, that's why the EU regulations are a super important Player because it pushes brands to make that first move. And our research shows that 78% of consumers said that they would regularly or occasionally use a trusted platform like reloom, but 90% weren't already using one yet. So I think there is a big gap in the market. I think what will accelerate the growth over the next five to 10 years will be regulations as well as brands being more transparent. Not because it's a nice to have, but it's a must have. In this day and age, as we've

Speaker C: seen time and time again, when that consumer desire meets with the push of regulation, things start changing very, very fast.

Speaker A: Um, exactly. Yeah.

Speaker C: So as, as brands, how can we support our customers? How can we, um, for want of a better phrase, take advantage of this shift in consumer desires?

Speaker A: I think it's a really exciting time to be a brand. I think one of the key things that I tell some of our pioneer brands that join our platform is brands need to stop treating sustainability as a PR exercise and start treating it as a product feature and as a commercial asset. I think the brands that are going to win, quote, unquote, will be the ones that can prove their sustainability journey, not just tell it so in fashion. You have something called the lifecycle analysis or the lca, and that has different tiers and different compartments that brands need to be compliant with. And, you know, I think a lot of brands these days start seeing this LCA analysis as a little bit of a, uh, of a PR stunt. But I think the best way to use this LCA analysis is to embed that into your journey, into your product story, into each garment, to show where each garment was manufactured, where, uh, the yarn was produced, where it was stitched together and how it's m shipped to the end consumer. I think there's already so much detail in a, uh, brand's LCA already. It's just about using that information to your advantage and putting it in the right places, whether that's on your website or whether that's on a tag on your product. I think using that information to your advantage could really put you in a better place. And I think brands that, you know, take this as a, as a first step and start having this as an early mover. Advantage will benefit a lot from the trust and loyalty of consumers and we'll start seeing a higher, not just conversion rate, but also a retention and loyalty rate, uh, from the conscious consumer community.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think when we talk about trust, it all ends up feeding through to that lifetime value and to the retention piece Well, I think we'll, I suspect we'll come back to trust. But it strikes me that there's an opportunity in the next couple of years with a short term opportunity with shouting about improvements. You know, as everyone starts focusing on these LCAs, there will be the, ah, uh, headline. Jeans now use 80%, produce 80% less waste than they did. Which is such a simple way of, of explaining to the consumer this is a better choice than it was 12 months ago. And it's got a big fat number on it and all the rest of it. I can see that being, being super powerful across marketing and tags and things.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. And it should always be on the product page, not in your annual report. Because the number of brands that come to us and like, they're like, you know, do we, do you have this information? Do you have the DNI score? Do you have your grievance wages? They're like, we have all of it. I'm like, where? They're like, in our annual report, I'm like, put that on your product page right now. Because that's what consumers will be drawn to, that level of transparency, that data and brands will say, oh, but that's a, that, that's overkill. No one will read it. Trust me, people care.

Speaker E: People will read.

Speaker A: Um, so just put it out there, put it in a very engaging way. Trust me, it will help. It's very, very useful information.

Speaker C: It's another example of how that wider piece that's going on in E commerce at the moment about killing silos and the barriers between different departments, it's like you've got all the data, you've just given it to the sustainability person who comes in on a Tuesday and nobody else looks at it. It's like there's this rich mine of information that if you can put it in a consumer facing way, which doesn't mean emailing your consumers your annual report.

Speaker A: No, please don't do that. Please, I beg you. If you take one thing from this podcast, do not send your annual report in the newsletter. But if you do, that's also okay. But try put it on your product page.

Speaker C: Yes, it's not your get out of jail free on this piece of recommendation. Uh, you know, there's a whole, a whole load of useful stuff in there which can spin out content ideas, can spin out social stories, email newsletters, homepage improvements, product page improvements. There's just so much we can do with that data to build that consumer trust, to educate the consumer and so forth. Yeah, so that's, that's kind of a big thing is getting some of that data onto the product page. What else should um, should brands be doing as a result of this knowledge of consumers, consumer desires?

Speaker A: I think there's a few things. One of the things is what we mentioned, I mean what brands call boring stats, using that as a conversion driver. So there is this massive missed opportunity with, you know, brands not communicating their sustainability records and not putting that onto the right pages. One of the things that's super important is most of uh, this information lives in PDFs that nobody reads. And but we've seen that placing verified sustainability data directly on product pages, what we call PDPs can drive uh, a 0.3 to 0.5% point lift in conversion. So you'll see a direct relation to how quickly you make sales or the loyalty and the retention. So one of the biggest tips, like I always say, will be to put it in the right places where consumers can actually see. And I think one of the other things that I do want to mention is the secondhand market. And that is super important and very like, you know, we mentioned Vinted earlier today. But I think the resale market is also growing really fast and it's projected to reach around I think 77 billion billion globally by 2026. And this is massive because for brands that don't use their resale kind of platforms to A, empower consumers to come back to resell their products to other consumers or B, see it as a way to bring back material to upcycle, uh, to recycle, then resell. They will also see a big drop in conversions. I think resale is the way to move forward as well. End of life and circular design is also kind of something that brands should keep in mind. I think with also circular design there's two ways to look about it. The first is when you actually design the product. So lots of brands have started thinking about circularity before the product even goes into the, into manufacturing. So how can they create three outfits from one? How can they make sure that the buttons and the, and the um, zip which are the hardest to recycle, can be collected at the end of a consumer not wanting to use a particular outfit and send that back to the brand? That's all in the design phase. But there's also the resale aspect where brands are now starting to use their own website to have a small resale, kind of like a mini vintage itself on their platforms to be able to get consumers to come back and build a bit of a community within the Brand itself to exchange and sell products at a lower cost. I think what that does is build a community. And the second you build a community within the space, you're really winning because you have a higher level of loyalty, conversion and retention within your, within your customer profile. So I think resale is a big untapped area as well in general that we're seeing within, within fashion e commerce,

Speaker C: it's kind of fundamentally, why not make money off the same garment more than once if you can?

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker C: Why not? And, and we, we spoke earlier about how you know things, the barriers keeping consumers out of this trust is a huge one and price is a big one.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And if we can run a secondhand resale marketplace on the brand's website, all of a sudden that's so much more trustworthy than it, uh, going through a third party supplier.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker C: Because it's on the brand site, there's a recourse if there's issues with someone who doesn't want to lose your business because they want you to buy the new stuff. But there's also that element of price point, both in terms of you can buy the secondhand item for less, but also if you're looking to buy the brand new item, you can immediately see when you've got, you know, your bridesmaid example, you know, you wear the bridesmaid dress once, maybe you managed to wear it to another party, there's an immediate route to sell it out again. So it gives in so many ways to a brand. I think that resale piece.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's really important as well because you still have, it's still your product. So what you can still do is use the same information. When it comes to your digital product passport, everything to do with the actual product, you already have the information. So you can already put your sustainability impact imprint score and your overall product DPP on the resale platform as well. So you're able to use the same information twice to increase loyalty. And I think the third thing is also turning regulation into benefit. I think people, you know, one of, one of the things that um, my, one of my brands from the Netherlands mentioned is Vishy the second. I see EU regulation, I see cost as a brand and I'm like, that's very fair. But we see it as a competitive advantage. You get a first mover advantage if you act quick and efficiently in this space. You know, the digital product passport, the DPP requires verified product level sustainability data for all fashion brands and for. Right by 2030. This is so key for brands that act sooner because consumers are already aware of this change and they're already starting to demand DPPs from brands. And I think that brands that do it early won't just be compliant. They'll have verified marketing assets that they can then use a stronger retailer, you know, much stronger retailer pitches and a really high level of a, what we call a trust signal in fashion with consumers where, you know, you, you do have that level of blinded trust from consumers when you have such high levels of transparency in your data. And I think early movers here definitely win.

Speaker C: I find it so mad when any business goes, oh, uh, the regulation's not coming in for two years. I'll ignore it until the month before. It's like, I mean, yes, by all means, wait until someone's delivered the software that will do it for you. So maybe wait a couple of months and start talking to some people. But, but to ignore it when it' a huge systems change in the business. So much stuff needs capturing that you probably haven't been capturing before, formatting into a different place. But if you get ahead of it, then you're building it into those systems and processes so it's new rather than trying to essentially rebuild the whole business the month before. And, and like you say, there is, you know, the sooner you start doing it, the sooner you can make it efficient and work internally, but also the sooner you're getting that data to consumers.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And this is so funny because I remember, Chloe, you're going to laugh at this. I remember the first time I pitched this idea to my mom. I always say, if I can pitch something to my mom and she understands I've done well. I told her, I was like, you know, this is a concept that I am trialing out. And she, I told her, I was like, it's a platform conscious consumers, you know, they can talk to verified brands. And great. She's like, why would brands act now? And I was like, well, if you're a brand that acts now, you're able to then have that as marketing assets. You can go to trade shows with confidence, you can show your score, you can be super transparent about claims that you're making, and you get a high level of customer loyalty and retention. And she actually said, it looks like you back in middle school trying to, you know, do your homework at the last minute, whereas if you had just done it a few days before, you could have gone to the playground and posted it off to all your friends. So it's exactly that, but within a business world. But I think it's so important, I think don't wait till the last minute because you're going to have such a big advantage as a brand doing this sooner. Um, and you'll also be able to improve. One of the biggest things Chloe is right now, brands that join, ah, reloom, they are able to already see exactly where they stand on the different pillars and they're able to see what they can do to get better. So every month they'll get, you know, a little recommendation or a personalized newsletter that says brand X. You're doing really well in these different pillars. However, we suggest you focus the next month's effort on trying to procure these documents, trying to solidify these data points. So you already can start even becoming better when it comes to how you are operating as a brand when it comes to sustainability. Whereas if you start this in 2027 or 2028, yeah, you will have the data and you will be able to be able to comply. But I think that's what I keep saying. I think compliant complying isn't enough. You will have to start early as a brand to ensure that you're able to improve your score, improve your overall compliance and data, but also be able to communicate that effectively to the world and to the conscious consumers out there who want to shop with you and give them the trust to do so.

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Speaker B: It's time for the top tips round.

Speaker C: Okay, I love this section because it gives our listeners some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level. Vishy, are you ready for the top tips?

Speaker A: I am ready.

Speaker C: Okay, the book Top Tip. If everyone listening to this podcast agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

Speaker A: Oh, I do have a lot, but it would have to be the Lean Startup by Eric I always butcher his last name. Eric Rees or Eric Ries, I don't know. But it's called the lead startup. It is my holy grail. Um, because I think everything that we've built at uh, Reloom has been about validating what we build. So for example, we ran paid consumer surveys, interviewed 50 plus brands, ran focus groups before we wrote a single piece of code. And I think this book really helps you as a founder, have, implement that mindset at a very early stage in your startup. I think it really helped me a lot.

Speaker C: It isn't it because, um, a lot of people think, oh, that research, that doesn't sound very lean. But no, everybody. The point is you make sure you've got the right answer before you start. Yeah, it's a lot easier to change the plan when there's no code.

Speaker A: Exactly, exactly.

Speaker C: Exactly. Okay. The traffic. Top tip. Which marketing method do you either prize above all others or think doesn't get the press it deserves?

Speaker A: Oh, I love this. It has to be community led growth, I think, without a question. I think having built a company that thrives on community, I think there's no way we would have been able to get where we are without that. I think those communities, whether that's, you know, us being at ah, Draper's Conscious Fashion Summit or Sustainable Fashion Fest, those communities are pre qualified. So they've already got an interest in what you're trying to sell them. So I personally don't think paid ads or any type of ads, ads in that sense can replicate the quality of attention and how organic that attention can be when it's coming from a community that really cares about what you're trying to say.

Speaker C: Yeah, community is so powerful. There's so many ways you can use it as well, isn't there? You can dip into other people's communities and then you can create your own community and all of it just creates so much impact.

Speaker A: Exactly, exactly.

Speaker C: The tooltop tip. Maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plugin, a phone app, or just a way of working. Is there a cool little tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient from day to day?

Speaker A: You know what, it is overdone. I do know this, but call me out if you want to, but notion for everything, strategy docs, brand onboarding flows, investor updates. We have a system on notion for everything. And I also think for a lean team like ours, um, it's the closest thing you can get to having an extra person on your team. It's our holy grail.

Speaker C: We are so embedded in Google Docs that I don't think we'll ever make it to Notion, but. Oh, oh, I'd love to spend a whole week playing around with it, but it would be such a bad use of my time.

Speaker A: No, I think, yeah, it's one of those things where once you've cemented your ways in one system and it just works, it just, there's no feeling like it really.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm, I totally get where you're coming from and maybe one day the next idea, maybe I'll build in Notion.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, the carbon top tip. What's your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an E commerce store?

Speaker A: I mean, I'm biased here, but I think get your sustainability story verified, not just for marketing, but just so you know where your biggest impact areas are. I think, you know, brands consistently tell us that going through our scoring process reveals blind spots that they didn't know that they had. And I think the biggest thing that you can do as a brand is, is to be aware of what your carbon footprint is and where you're making the most impact and where you can grow.

Speaker C: Yeah, totally agree. Count it. Basically everybody.

Speaker A: Exactly. And you can't reduce what you haven't measured. So start collecting documents and start measuring things. I think that's the best carbon tip I could provide.

Speaker C: And if you haven't measured it, you can't shout about it going down or up. Whichever's the good one. Exactly, Exactly. Uh, Vishy, it's been really cool talking to you about this most brilliant of topics and such a hot topic for everyone too. But before you say goodbye, tell us a bit more about Reloom and what you offer to brands and how they can get in contact with you.

Speaker A: Amazing. Thank you so much, Chloe. Um, yeah, so at Reloom, we are really here to be your right hand platform for measuring your sustainability impact and to help you storytell it in a very effective way and also to improve what you're currently already doing. A great. So if you want to find out more, you can come onto our website or visit us on Instagram at reloom or LinkedIn at reloom as well. Or just DM me and I will be more than happy to have a quick chat with you.

Speaker C: Awesome. Thank you so much, Vishy. And thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It's been a real pleasure having you here.

Speaker A: Thank you so much, Chloe.

Speaker C: Well, there you have it, everyone. Lots to be getting your teeth stuck into as an opportunity, not a threat in the world of the conscious consumer fashion sustainability and all those legislations and bits that are coming in. I love Vichy's enthusiasm for the topic and I love that in her business they are combining that PR and how to tell your story with the analysis. Because it's one thing having the analysis, but if you're not shouting at it to the consumers, then you're not going to be getting the results you want from it. Lots to take into account there and really just bear in mind that accessibility and the trust elements and all those things we can do to take advantage of and to support the consumers in their journey to more conscious buying habits and to get ahead of that legislation and take start taking advantage of it right now. You can get your hands on our notes from this episode, including the top tips and links to what we mentioned, by heading over to ecommercemasterplan.com you can also use those special direct episode short links. That's ecmp.info the number of this episode. Put that in and and you'll go straight to the right page. And when you're there, why not add yourself to our email list? Why not? Go on, do it now. If you like this episode, then I highly recommend scrolling back up your feed a bit to check out episode 567 567, where I'm chatting with Bert from Mud Jeans about their approach to turning secondhand clothing into new products. It's a different one, but it's really fascinating and he's such a leader in the world of fashion sustainability. I think you'll really like that one. If you want more on fashion in general, then ecmp.info fashion will take you to all our, uh, fashion episodes and there's plenty of them for you to get stuck into. Thank you for tuning into this and every episode of the Ecommerce Master Plan Podcast. I bring you a new interview every week because I want to inspire and help E Commerce business owners like you to succeed and thrive with your business, including encouraging businesses and consumers to make more sustainable buying decisions. So if you know someone this show can help. Please tell them to listen to the E. Commerce Master Plan Podcast. I hope you have a brilliant week and don't forget to keep optimizing.

Speaker B: Thank you for listening to the E. Commerce Master Plan Podcast. Find out more@ecommercemasterplan.com podcast.

Speaker D: The following ZipRecruiter radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with F words when you're hiring.

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Speaker C: Fantastic.

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