Make Your Mark: Jasmin Guthmann, Head of Corporate Communications of Contentstack

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Candid conversations with women that will change the way that you see success, purpose and what it takes to bridge the two. I'm Neha Sampat, a three time tech founder and CEO with a focus on companies that are places to dream big, build up and be a good human. I'm CEO of Contentstack and today is a very special episode. It's the 24th episode of Dream Makers. It's also the last one. So to start off, I'll reflect a little bit on this journey. Later, I will be joined by Jasmine Gutman, contentstax Head of Corporate Communications and a VP at the Mock alliance to talk about a topic really close to my heart. Challenging the status quo. I guess you can call that dream making too. But first, it's just going to be me. I moved to Austin in 2019 to open up our new Content Stack offices and continue to grow our team there. I spent a lot of time making sure that our space felt like home. We chose a house instead of an office building. The bedrooms became offices, we painted murals on the walls and installed a little wine bar. I was so proud when we opened that office at the end of February 2020 and the pandemic hit and things got lonely really fast. The idea for Dream Makers was born at that moment out of my desire to make connections in a location neutral and yes, a very scary world. And to remember that despite a pandemic, awesome and inspiring things were happening around us all the time, often led by women. I wanted to share those women's stories of profit and purpose and see how we could lift ourselves, each other and our listeners up 24 episodes later, I've been lucky enough to speak with Brian Nasio, an entrepreneur and outdoor enthusiast who built Seeker, an app that makes camping easier, safer and way more social. Debbie Chen, an academic turned Muay Thai fighter turned hydration tech CEO at Hydrostasis Gayathri Rangachari, a journalist determined to shine a light on India's beauty and many, many other women who are leading change in their own industries, in their own ways and making the world a better place. These women all had an idea that would solve a problem in the world through entrepreneurship, leadership and more. Addie Swartz actually said spotting problems in advance is her superpower. That's probably why she's a serial entrepreneur like me. The problem she's currently solving with her company, Reach Higher is how to reintroduce women into the workforce after long absences. Listen to how she acknowledges her superpower in this clip. I like to think about Entrepreneurs from the perspective of having superpowers. And I know that I have a superpower, I'm sure that you do too. I'd like to hear what yours is.

Speaker A: I feel like I see problems that others don't recognize way ahead of when they come to the fore. So actually this week represents our eight year anniversary of my founding reach higher. And so when I was talking about back to work back in 2013, no one knew really what that was. And I feel like that that is sort of a invisible problem. All these women offer this opportunity to really leverage their superpowers, their intellectual capability and their diversity and their, you know, their experience, because many of them have many, many years of experience both in corporations and then managing other situations in personal life that they can offer. And so I do think that my superpower is recognizing opportunity and recognizing human potential. And I think that if you believe that an individual has huge potential and they just need it to be unleashed somehow and you go in with it that way, you'll just, as an employer, be able to take advantage of that and empower those people to be their best selves and really move the needle.

Speaker B: M addie using her superpower to recognize greatness in others is a perfect setup for something Leanne Buchanan told us. Leanne is president of Air Ventures and founder of the NIA Project. She's igniting connections that would close the racial equity gap in tech. Leanne reminded us that we all have the potential to be innovators, or maybe we already are innovators. When you think of the word innovation in the traditional sense, you might think about inventing something. And if we think about it today, it's really about challenging status quo and having an idea that's different than the norm and finding a way to bring it to life. And as you say, to scale that idea into something real and tangible.

Speaker C: I think I would add the Latin root of inno is inno novus, just something new, right? And I think that when we zoom out and look at society, we've got some existential challenges that exist, from kind of climate change to this racial reckoning that really became part of the public zeitgeist in 2020 with the murder of George Floyd, we have lack of representation in tech. There's some big challenges that are going to require new thinking, new perspectives. And I think when I look at the definition of innovation, for me it's really that it is anything new that can improve the human condition, right? Anything new that can change the way we do things because we recognize some things are Working. But quite frankly, not everything is working quite well.

Speaker B: You have the idea, you have the superpower, you are an innovator. So why wait? That's what my namesake, Neha Sampat, asked herself as she was considering transitioning out of a career in law. Today, she's an inclusion warrior and entrepreneur as CEO and founder of GenLead Belong Lab. Let's listen.

Speaker D: In that first year of practice, I was feeling misaligned. And that was not surprising to me because I always knew that my cause was, at the time, how I labeled it was education. Now I label it more broadly as empowerment. But at the time I'm like, my cause is education. I believe that by educating, or empowering as I call it now, that's how you actually impact change in the world. You actually catalyze into change. And so I thought to myself, that's my cause and someday I'm going to do something in education. And very quickly, in that first year of practicing law, I was like, wait a second. Why does someday have to be so far away? Like, no one said it has to be so far away. Why can't someday be today? And once I asked myself that question, I had no good response. There was no reason why it couldn't be today. So I immediately started figuring out, how do I get into education?

Speaker B: I know this better than anyone. You have to stop kicking the can down the road and just dig in. You never know what tomorrow will bring, so why not start now? Dream Makers started as a fun side project to help me find new ways to connect with people. But it became so much more and I'll continue to seek out and connect with the Dream Makers amongst us. Which brings me to Jasmine Goodman. Jasmine is head of corporate communications at ContentStack. She's also VP and executive board Member at the Mock alliance, which is a vendor neutral institution that provides resources, education and guidance to support companies on their transformation journey. Mock stands for microservices, API first, cloud, Native, and headless. And sometimes I like to say that the C stands for composable. It's a technology acronym that means a lot to us in this world of digital experiences. Moreover, Jasmine's my colleague. She's participated in several iron distance triathlons and wrote a book about her experiences. She's furiously and generously fighting for gender equity in tech, which is something I share with her. And her bio says she's on a mission to be 1% better every day. So yes, I would say that Jasmine is a Dream maker. Welcome, Jasmine.

Speaker E: Hey. So good to see you.

Speaker B: Jasmine you're based in Germany, but you just got back from running the Chicago Marathon. Tell us a little bit about that experience.

Speaker E: Oh, uh, that was such a fun adventure. Thanks for asking. What I love about running is that it doesn't care who you are or where you're from or how much you make. The course is the same for everyone. So really, intentions don't matter, actions do, and actions speak louder than words. So it was such a wonderful experience. You get to see places you otherwise would never have gotten to see. We ran through all of the 29 suburbs of Chicago. They had 1.7 million of spectators along the course. So, I mean, incredible, incredible atmosphere. And you get to meet all these new people and you share the joy and the pain. Because inevitably, during 26.2 miles, there will be a rough patch somewhere. And that's really unique, and it creates a bond like no other. You don't know these people when you're, you know, at the starting line, but by the time you reach the finish line, you've really made some new friends and community is a big thing. And that reminds me a lot of what it's like to work at compensac.

Speaker B: That's amazing. How did you get into running and triathlon in general?

Speaker E: Oh, that was really a step by step process. I most certainly didn't wake up one day saying, hey, stupid Ironman. That's not how these things work. You start very small, you run a mile, and then you graduate to 5 miles, and then you do your first 10k race, and then you venture on to half marathon. It really is a gradual process, and there's almost a natural barrier at the half marathon mark, because it's exhausting. Let's face it. You know, you feel like you've really worked yourself out quite well. And it's really in your mind. Your body is perfectly capable of doing a full marathon, but your brain tells you, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Uh, I didn't sign up for this. I signed up for the couch and the snacks and the wine. So, uh, can we please just stay home? That's like, you know, an angel and a devil on your shoulder, basically saying, well, maybe. What if I did? Well, yeah, here's all the things that could go wrong, and you need to almost have to have that leap of faith and just commit yourself to doing it and go for it. And I think that's so true. It teaches you so much about life in general, not just about running. You have to make up your mind, no matter how scary it may seem. Because you've never done it before. Because it's actually one of the most rewarding experiences once you get to that finish line. And yes, that requires, hate to say it, sacrifice. So you will, you know, there's a price to pay, but it's so worth it. But you only get to experience that when you reach that finish line. And that's such a beautiful moment because you've achieved something that at some point before you thought was impossible. And there isn't much that feels better than that. And I think that's why so many people keep returning all the stories you hear about marathoners or Ironman athletes. It's like the right. Five minutes after the race, they may be like, I'm not. I'm not doing this again. And then you meet them the next day, and you're like, yeah, I've signed up for another one. That's why.

Speaker B: That's how winning feels sometimes. Right? You keep wanting more of it. So that's really incredible. When you talk about sacrifices leading into the finish line, talk about how that helps you in other aspects of your life.

Speaker E: Great question. It helps a lot because I've jokingly said my middle initial is D as in discipline. Because it really. That's, for me, what it translates to. The concept is strikingly simple, and it involves just three steps. Number one, probably most difficult. One, decide what you want. Number two, make a plan. And even more difficult, number three, stick to it. Because you'd be surprised how far these three simple steps will take you. But that's, uh, so much easier in theory and so much harder in practice.

Speaker B: You're a person that likes to help others and inspire others. What do you seek to inspire in others?

Speaker E: That is exactly the reason why I wrote a book about doing it, because I think we often have a tendency to think we're the only one out there. We're the only one who struggles. We're the only one who's had it hard. And truth is, we're not. There's so many people out there who benefit from hearing your story. So I really love to inspire people to push themselves, to dream big and to actually not just dream big, but make their dreams come true. And that's something that you and you alone are responsible for. Just sitting around and waiting for something fantastic to happen is not how you get there. Decide what you want, make a plan, and then you go execute it. There is no one else to blame, no one else who can do it for you. You are perfectly capable of doing that. And I think that's how you build confidence in business as well. Pick something small. Doesn't have to be an ironman. Pick something small. 5k race, run around the block. Whatever your level is today, set a goal and achieve it. Uh, and, uh, to your point, winning feels so good. It is a facet of winning. And then you come back for more and then you eventually make your way to the bigger goals.

Speaker B: Absolutely. There's so many comparisons that tie this back to the work that we do every day and the challenges we take on at work to challenge the status quo and to make our workplaces better and to make our experiences better for customers. And I think we'll get into some more of that shortly. But of course, at Dream Makers, we drink wine. And so this is actually sadly, the last bottle of wine sponsored by the Dream Makers podcast. So it's an extra special one. And I think we've consumed almost two cases of wine in the course of the 24 episodes. Outside of a couple episodes where we did something special for non wine drink drinkers. We did a couple different sparkling waters. So that was fun. We did a tea once as well. But I've enjoyed trying a lot of different wines on the show. And today we're having an Alsatian Riesling, which I'm going to let you pronounce it properly, Jasmine, because your language skills in this language are better than mine.

Speaker E: Okay. That's a huge Riesling. Grossi laurz, Whitehausen und elf.

Speaker B: Thank you. I could not have said it quite as, uh, authentically myself, but it's a great classic Riesling. A lot of acidity was the first thing I tasted on my palate. And I was kind of, while we were practicing and talking, I was joking that it's kind of like biting into a lemon bar. Cause you get the acidity, but you also have kind of this lemon parfait, orange blossom, almost a little bit of marzipan, almond blossom and super, uh, intense. And it's actually opened up nicely in the last even 10, 15 minutes. So we will continue to enjoy this Riesling over the course of the rest of the episode. And thank you for sharing it with me from across the pond.

Speaker E: Absolutely. And Riesling is such a versatile grape that I just love that none of them tastes the same. And we've, we've picked a particularly beautiful one, so.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And actually I've had a couple questions from Dream Makers listeners in the past about what wines to pair with vegetarian food. And this is one that particularly goes well with spicy vegetarian food like A Thai food or an Indian food. So if you're a, uh, vegetarian or even just someone who likes really spicy foods, Riesling is always something to turn to as a consideration. Okay, let's keep going. I'm going to talk a little bit about Content Stack values. Since we're both Content Stack people and members of the Content Stack tribe, as we call it. One of our Content Stack values is we are dreamers and dream makers who challenge the status quo. How do you interpret that statement, Jasmine?

Speaker E: Well, to start off, I, um, love that value and I love how it's how it comes to life when you speak to really anyone that's part of the condosec tribe. To me it really highlights the two parts that it takes to do something that's never been done before. First, daring to dream about it. That's where it starts. And second, taking action to make it happen. You're not just a dreamer, you also need to be a dream maker. Not waiting for something to happen, not just dreaming about it, daydreaming about it, but actually taking action and challenging the status quo is, well, challenging. You have to be the person that stands up and says, this isn't good enough, this can be better, I can make this better. Here's how I'm going to take us there. And at Content Stack, everyone is encouraged to be both the dreamer and the change maker. And I really love that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I completely agree. And I've watched you, uh, challenging the status quo and I've seen you fighting for gender equity in tech, which I think we both care about tremendously, inside and outside of the walls of work. Could you tell us a bit about your role in the Mock alliance and contributing to the recent manifesto that just came out?

Speaker E: Such an exciting project. Thank you for mentioning that. Um, well, I started out as the Mock alliance back when it was just a few companies. Content Stack was one of them, one of the original founders who had a big vision, but not yet the reach and visibility to bring it to life. So I came in as the head of the Marketing Council and I saw a tremendous opportunity and I said, well, let's go, what are we waiting for? So I helped them to grow their visibility and reputation until we eventually started organizing what become our sold out first ever flagship conference. It was called Mac1, of course, alluding to the speed component. Here's what happened and I think it's a great real life example for how far we think we may have come in terms of gender equity and what the reality is. We put out a call for Speakers as anyone would do. And then I got back the first list of speaker applications, and I looked at it and I was like, I think you've given me the wrong list. And the team was like, no, no. Why? It's a great list. It has 35 submissions on it. What's the problem? And I was like, well, do you realize that 90% of these are white men? And there was silence in the room. You could have heard a pin drop. Everyone's like, now that you say it, yeah, but we're in tech. That's just the way it is. And I was like, okay, full stop. Because that's not. Let that be our excuse. It's so easy at that moment in time to just lean back and say, oh, well, it's not my fault. Uh, the tech industry is like that. I said, no, we're not going to do that. We're not going to be the same. Let's do different. Let's be better. So I committed to having a 50, 50 male female split for speakers. And I'm super happy to say yes. It was a lot of extra work, but we succeeded. We ended up having that balance. So it proves that it's possible, but you need to be wanting it really, really bad. And actually, some of the men that had submitted turned into the greatest, what we call now male allies, because once pushed, they started digging up fantastic female speakers that we had no idea about. And, um, that was just great to see because again, it produced that community element. Because now we're all of a sudden, we're all in the same game and we're trying to do better, we're trying to be better. So we thought, you know, here we're onto something bigger. It's not just this one conference. Let's not just do it for our one conference. How can we make this, how can we turn this into an impact for the industry? So we plan a, um, Women and Mockument in Madrid. We found we invited 100 leading females in tech and a few select male allies, because you never want just one side of the dialogue in a room. It's a general effort. We need everyone at the table. And we created the first ever Women in Mark manifesto for gender equality. And it's not just a nice statement to read off paper and feel good and warm and fuzzy about it. It actually comes with 35 action items. And every company that signs it has to pick at least five of those action items. And the mock alliance will hold them accountable. And it's items like, we will ensure that male and Female employees are paid equally. We will ensure that we have that 50, 50 split for speakers at our events. So there's real tangible action items and that is actually, I think, the best way to go about it.

Speaker B: I think I know the answer to this. But Jasmine, why was that such a necessary move?

Speaker E: Yeah, and it's almost sad that it is necessary.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker E: Because we like to believe that we've come such a long way, uh, already intact, but still we've got such a long way to go. What I realized is many times I am the only woman in the room. I'm sure you are. Many more times than I am. You don't realize because it's so natural, because we, that's the way it's been since day one. So the Mark alliance as a nonprofit really strives to advocate for best of breed technology principles. But really we felt that that was too short. Just looking at it from a technical level is not enough. We're here to make a mark on the industry. We need to fight for more equality, more equity. And what better way to do it than in a non profit, 70 plus member organization where we can actually hold other companies accountable against something like a manifesto. And an alliance can do what the members on its own would have a hard time doing, doing just that. Bringing everyone together to create something bigger than the individual parts. So that's exactly what we did. We wrote the manifesto today. It's now getting signed. You've signed it. So, uh, you know, kudos to you for being a leader once again in those kinds of topics. And it's a beautiful testament to the power that can be unleashed when you bring the right people together at the right time in the right place. And that's the beauty of it. And that's why I'm so passionate about driving that, uh, forward.

Speaker B: Yeah. And it takes leadership to not only organize around this, but rally the right people together. But the beauty of it is also that the outcomes are proven and it gives us more proof points to do more of it and to lean into it more. And so those people that might not be ready and that are hesitating for whatever reason or who are not ready to challenge the status quo will have to do so because it's also driving better outcomes for the companies. And so that's all in the work that comes into leveling the playing field. And I'm curious if you can talk about maybe some of the little inequities that we see every day.

Speaker E: For sure. What I found striking was we had a few select male allies, uh, at the women in Mocking and Madrid. And one of them took me aside pretty early on and whispered in my ear, you know what, Jasmine? For the first time in my life, I feel horribly outnumbered. Up until now, I had no, no idea how you must feel when you're in a room that is all men every day, every day, all the time. And really, honestly, I had never thought about it that way until he said that. Because for, for us it's so usual and for him it was all of a sudden so unusual to not be the majority, but the minority. And he said it felt really, really strange. So I think that is, those are. That's actually probably a major inequity because we're just all so used to it that we don't even realize it. Yeah. And many times there is just one woman at the table or on the panel or in the conversation. So let's all push for plus one. If you're invited to something, ask, uh, who else is coming. Bring a friend, A female friend. Same for panels. Don't be on panels that are all male. Just don't. And I think that that can, uh, probably go a long way.

Speaker B: Yeah. So you covered some of this, but are there other things to help us create a future of more equity in tech?

Speaker E: Yeah, and I'm such a passionate believer in equity. Really, panels that aren't 50 50, don't go. Push for more female speakers at your events because it is possible. We just talked about that. But you have to be willing to put in the work. And yes, it is more work, but it's so worth it. And I think here's another important component. When you achieve it, celebrate it. Don't be afraid to bang the drum about gender equality and gender equity one way or another. Actually, the more you talk about it, the more likely it is that other people will take to it and say, oh, wow, they, if they can do it. And here's the inspiration theme again. If these guys can do it, why shouldn't I be able to do it? So be the change and be the leader that shows that it's possible. And then others will follow. Absolutely.

Speaker B: So what are some other ways that you push yourself both professionally and ah, personally?

Speaker E: Uh, hat tip to James Clear, brilliant author of Atomic Habits. If anyone hasn't read that, that's listening. That's a fantastic way to spend your time. I really try to be one person better every day. And the underlying idea is that success is really about the small changes and the compound effect that these can create. One times, you know, by the power of 365 is still 1.1.01 by the power of 365 is 37.7. So, you know, we sometimes think that all the changes we have to do need to be major, but actually, no. If you look for that small thing that you can do better today, you'll be better tomorrow. If you do it again tomorrow, you'll be better the day after. And that's really what I try to do.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's exponential impact. Tell us an example of how you're getting 1% better every day.

Speaker E: I'm a huge fan of the feedback, and that's hard, but you know, if it, if it was easy, anyone could do it. To quote yourself. So I'm, I try to be constantly asking for feedback from my peers, from my team members, uh, but also from my husband and my family. And it's not always fun to listen to that, um, but it's necessary. Right? And sometimes you, you need that outside perspective to really, uh, get a sense of where am I doing well, where am I maybe lacking, where can I get better? And then I make a plan to get better and take those small steps every day, try and make it happen. And then I rinse and repeat, collect feedback again, see if it's gotten better. Because, uh, data is such a powerful tool. You know, action produces information. Uh, and ever since I first read that, that's really stuck with me because sitting around just thinking about it is probably not going to help. Go do something about it and then see whether it helps. If it helps, great. Keep doing it. If it doesn't, we'll try something else.

Speaker B: Amazing. I'd like to hear a little bit more about how you overcome challenges.

Speaker E: Hard one. We all hate to lose, don't we?

Speaker B: Yes, we do. And I think we just talked about that earlier today in a different context.

Speaker E: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, God. But at the same time, it's inevitable, right? Uh, not we can't win all the time, but what I try to do is, um, think long term. So, you know, I have a vision for where I want to go eventually. And that makes it easier for me to accept that the way to get there may need to change. And that way short term setbacks are more bumps in a road than a total disaster. And I can actually correct course and it doesn't turn into this catastrophic, uh, mess that, that I don't, I then don't know how to get back out of. And maybe it sounds hokey, but I really try to keep a positive attitude. There's nothing I can do to the things that are happening to me. But what is very much under my control is how I react to that. I tend to assume that people have the best intentions, at least the first time. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and I encourage my team to do the same. And that way we are all in a much more positive on a much more positive baseline. And that makes all the difference, because with an attitude of, here's a problem, fine. But rather than just saying, here's a problem, what I encourage people to do is, hey, Jasmine, here's a problem. This is how I think we can solve for it. Or here's my initial thoughts about it. If solution is too far away, but don't bring me just the problem, Bring me an idea of what to do with it, and then we can ideate on it together instead of, oh, this is wrong, how can I be right? Or, uh, I need to be. I don't need to be the smartest person in the room. Absolutely not. I'm more than happy for the other people to have better ideas. And then, you know, that creates a very, uh, very thriving culture of dialogue, and we actually come up with better solutions because everyone has a say. And lastly, I would just say to everyone, remind yourself, and this is a life theme, really. Magic doesn't happen inside your comfort zone. If it was easy, anybody would do it. And it's okay to struggle. It really is okay. Rome wasn't built in a day. Uh, no business was built in a day with no setback. But, you know, we only just usually see the success at the very end. We don't see all the struggle that came before that success when everyone gets popular. So if you struggle, it's okay. Ask for help. Build a support network that you can lean on when the going gets tough, because it will. And that again, that's okay. So, you know, make up your mind, make a plan, and then go for it.

Speaker B: Amazing. We do say that a lot at Content Stack. If it was easy, anybody would do it. But we're not just anybody. And I feel like that's a common theme amongst dream makers. We're not just in it just to kind of chillax. We're in it to, like, really win it, to make a difference, to challenge the status quo, to make our marks in the industry. And, um, I have one last question for you before we move into rapid fire, and that is that one of our most recent dream makers guests talked about having a bhag, or a big, heroic, audacious goal. What's yours?

Speaker E: Oh, wow. The limit of answers is one, right? To inspire people to be the best version of themselves.

Speaker B: That's a really good one. And I appreciate that you do that. I've seen you as a leader in the organization, as a leader in the industry, as a manager, and as one of my colleagues, kind of challenging everyone to do better and be better. And it's great to see. I am going to move us, uh, into rapid fire and I've got four quick questions that I ask every Dream Maker guest. And since you were the last one, I'm so excited to go through this with you. What is your wake up song?

Speaker E: I don't have one. My dog's my alarm.

Speaker B: Okay, if 19 year old you asked you today what they should read or listen to, what would you say?

Speaker E: If you're reading and listening, you're doing the right thing. Anything that sparks your curiosity. Anything, really, go for it.

Speaker B: Can you recommend a wine, A Riesling?

Speaker E: Uh, anyone? But if I, if I have to be specific. German Johann Joseph Prim, Berncastel Kuss. That is the wine yard and the town.

Speaker B: Okay, we'll have to put that one in the notes. And then what is the next thing that our listeners should do to help them become dream makers?

Speaker E: Quick fix. Listen to People Changing Enterprise Podcast episode. That's our brand new episode that, um, showcases fantastic people, Danielle de La Verde, Bob Howland, just to name a few, who've really made a mark on, on their enterprises, but are also fantastic leaders. So get inspired and then go chase your own dreams.

Speaker B: This is a pretty proud moment for me because I get to pass the torch to you as the host of our new content stack podcast. People Changing Enterprises that you just described. Dream Makers is all about how individuals are making their mark on their own. People Changing Enterprises is about individuals making their mark ins their companies. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Speaker E: Well, People Changing Enterprises is a show for people inside big businesses who see that something is broken and are ready to be the ones who change it because it's so easy to walk away. But no, these people, we call them status quo busters. They're ready to make change happen. And on a show, we talk to the best ones we know and we ask them how they do it. And our goal really is to create a playbook of strategies for enterprise change. Because guess what? There isn't one right now to train the status quo buses of the future. So if you're, if you want to make your mark, how do you actually do it?

Speaker B: And why is this something that the business Community needs today.

Speaker E: Well, as you often say, Neha, you know, innovation comes from within. And the past few years have shown us that, uh, businesses have to be able to adapt faster than ever before. So speed is really key. And inside those businesses are people who right now are trying to make that happen. But there's no rule book for the new way of doing things. So we decided to make one. And People Changing Enterprises is the only podcast out there that doesn't just talk about success, but actually how we're not going to let you fail, which are two very different things. And we actually drill deeper into how that success can be achieved through the lenses of business, technology and mindset. And I think that's a very, uh, very all encompassing spectrum. And they all feed into each other and play off each other and there's so much to learn and so many fantastic leaders willing to share if you only ask them. And we're here to do just that for all of you out there so that you future agents of change can make your mark on your businesses. Awesome.

Speaker B: And what are some common themes that you're seeing so far?

Speaker E: Well, it's interesting because we actually do see some common themes. Right. That was one of the questions. Is there something that they all have in common or not? And actually what we've seen is change doesn't happen through one person's force of will. Although that's sometimes the picture that is being painted. It really happens through empowering others. The most successful change agents don't set out to make themselves rich and famous. They zero in on what's best for the business and what's best for their people. Because again, that goes hand in hand. They identify the company direction and then they help the people inside that company to level up to meet those goals. So they turn it into a win win situation. The company wins and the individual people also win. So everyone's happy and produces better results. So another key theme is being open and transparent and respectful. Super important. The more authentic you are as a leader and the more you respect your people and treat them like equals and make them part of your decision making process, the better. And you don't have to sugarcoat problems. You don't have to feel like you need to do all the work. On the contrary, don't do it. Enable empower people to make decisions and to be part of the solution and let them come to their own conclusions because it will turn them into your most powerful allies within the company to advance your transformation or your digital transformation or whatever project you're working on. And it also means taking the time to sit down and talk with as many people as possible, from the most senior, which is probably more obvious, to the most junior in the world, because that's sometimes where the best ideas are. So, in sum, change is hard work and it's not a lone wolf activity. It really takes a tribe.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And you've had a couple really enthusiastic guests that have provided contagious energy, made us feel inspired, kind of challenge the status quo. I want to play a clip from Chief Digital Officer of Dahn Foods, Bob Howland, who was one of your guests about radical resiliency. Also note that this is the first time that a man appears on Dream makers.

Speaker E: In your ContentCon 2022 keynote, you brought up the concept of, uh, radical resiliency to manage change. Can you tell us a bit more about that? What is radical resiliency and where does it come from?

Speaker F: I think radical resiliency is something that everybody in E commerce faces in every aspect of what they do. Whether you're on the solution provider side or the brand side or within a business, we're all doing something that's new. And so it's different. It's different and it's difficult. So let's break the terms down. Radical is change management. Right. It's upsetting the status quo. It's basically telling people that the way we work today is not going to work for us tomorrow. And what human being wants to hear that? There's a whole EQ that goes into the way to deliver that message is really, really important because we all need to be part of the journey to make this happen. Resiliency. Every turn, every twist, every movement you make is met with resistance. And so having the ability to know that this is not linear.

Speaker B: Jasmine, what's your number one tip for developing radical resiliency?

Speaker E: Don't make or take it personal. Things don't have to be either good or bad. They're just things that happen. So play the long game and know there's always going to be another way to reach your goal. As long as you're flexible, it'll all be good in the end.

Speaker B: Amazing. Thank you again for being here, Jasmine. Consider me a People Changing Enterprises subscriber. Excited to see what you all continue to do. And thank you again and cheers. Cheers. You can find People Changing Enterprises on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and anywhere you get your podcasts. I'll drop the information in our episode notes too. If you're a Dream Makers subscriber, you'll see an episode in your feed really soon. That's it for our last episode of Dream Makers. I want to thank all of my listeners for being here for the journey. Whether you were around from the beginning or if this is your first time with us, I can't wait to see see what kind of mark you will

Speaker E: make on the world.

Speaker B: Fill me in on LinkedIn. That's Neha Sampat, CEO of Contentstack. Or on Twitter @nehasf. That's @n e H A S F. Thank you again and cheers.