The Power of Authentic Storytelling: Co-Founder & CEO of ICR, Tom Ryan

Speaker A: Every company now has to have a base approach to communicating their story.

Speaker B: This is the Safari. The Safari is a tour around the consumer, brand and retailing industry. And we have the great privilege here at my company, Traub to really be exposed to many of the great minds of the industry who are forming and shaping the future of many different parts of consumer, brand and retail world. And I felt it was quite interesting for us to be able to not only learn from all of those people, as we do every day, but, um, memorialize it into a podcast, which could then be shared with many of our friends and clients. And you, obviously, the listener.

Speaker C: Hi. Welcome back to the Safari. I'm inspired and excited by today's conversation with Tom Ryan, co founder and CEO of icr. Tom tells me about navigating through the evolving landscape of corporate communications. We discuss the importance of businesses proactively sharing their own stories and controlling the message, all while remaining authentic. I love this episode and I hope you enjoy. Hi. Today I am thrilled to be joined by Tom Ryan, co founder and CEO of icr. Tom, welcome today to the Safari. How are you?

Speaker A: Thank you so much. Uh, thank you for having me on safari.

Speaker C: Well, I'm thrilled to have you. I'm thrilled to have you. You sort of look like you're going on a safari. You look great today in your vest and flannel.

Speaker A: Just missing the pith helmet.

Speaker C: Yes. Well, where, Tom, where do I find you today? Where are you based?

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm out in, uh, in Westport, Connecticut. We have an office here. Our biggest is in, uh, midtown Manhattan, but we, we have, uh, people all over the world. But today I'm out in Westport.

Speaker C: Good for you. Well, it's a sunny winter day, not as cold as it's been, but, uh, well, Tom, I want to take our listeners on your journey and educate them a little bit about ICR and your fascinating background. Um, so maybe we'll start from the beginning and if you could tell us a little bit about your background and how you founded icr.

Speaker A: Sure. Um, I, uh, got out of undergrad and I worked for a little while down on Wall street and, um, went back to business school at Vanderbilt. My second year there, I did a project for an entrepreneur around Nashville who had been selling gray area poker machines. Like the. The poker machines you would see on a bar top. Um, you know, when you go in and just play, put some dollars in or coins. He was selling those into the state of South Carolina, about 20,000 of them a year. And this is when the whole casino business was really exploding in the 90s with riverboat casinos being built, Native American casinos. And uh, I just happen to hit a super fast growing industry at the right time. So um, when I got out of business school, I joined this gentleman. Company was called Video Game Technologies. And uh, within a year I knew everything about the emerging markets in the casino business, et cetera. And uh, after a while I decided I wanted to come back to the Northeast. So I parlayed that knowledge really into a job as a research analyst for Bankers Trust bt Alex Brown Deutsche Bank I covered the casino business writing the buy, hold, sell research reports for about 10 years. And uh, really learned like how an investment bank worked. Um, and companies would come in all the time and lay out their PowerPoint. They'd want me to get on board with an investment banking transaction or write positive research report and the stock would go up and everybody would be happy. Um, in most of those cases there was somebody advising the CEO and the CFO on how to talk to me. Uh, like someone with more of a PR background didn't understand Wall street or investments or what really moved stocks. And I thought if anyone should be advising the CEO on how to talk to people like me, it's me, given my background and I understand what I'm looking for. That was the beginning of ICR, uh 1.0, advising the C suite on how to deal with institutional investors, investment bankers, um, things like that. And then we added business, financial, media, crisis, communications, governance. And over a 26 year period it's become a pretty sizable, uh, enterprise with about a thousand clients, uh, most on retainer, uh, presence in Asia, in London and in the us so that's uh, a very quick version of my background and kind of how I got to icr.

Speaker C: Well, I love it. And I think you, you answered my next question, which is of course, um, you know, how did your experience influence what you' at icr? But I think it's everything, right? Like I, you know, my background is communications, but uh, when you're in it and you know, the stories that need to be told in order to get in the attention in front of the right people, it really makes all the difference in the world. And um, and you and I were talking earlier about um, how the communications has changed over the years and how we've evolved and I'm sure over the years, you know, I'd love to hear your take on the traditional media and sort of the direction and where things are going for your clients.

Speaker A: Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I'm embarrassed to uh, date myself here. But when I was an analyst on Wall Street, I used to get press releases in the mail. Like, I'm, I'm not kidding. You know, news would come out and they would mail it and you get it like three days later, like in an envelope.

Speaker C: Amazing. Or faxed through.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or a fax or whatever. And so you companies could very clearly, um, create lines behind the different groups that they were trying to target, where a company would try and tell their story. And they're going to say one thing to investors, another thing to employees, another thing to business partners, another thing to the media. Those days are gone. You know, with the echo chamber of social media, everybody with an iPhone is kind of like an activist, meaning that your customers see information right away, your employees see it right away, the media, investors, all the lines between those different stakeholder groups have completely blurred, if not vanished. And so companies really need to have an integrated approach to communicating internally and externally and you know, certainly use traditional channels. There are a lot of stakeholder groups that want their information packaged in a way that they're used to, like Wall street, over the Bloomberg terminals or whatever. Um, but then obviously there are other groups that prefer it, ah, in, in different ways, like social media, whether it's like TikTok or X.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Whatever social, uh, media is. And then, you know, we also talked about podcasts. I think, you know, you can make an argument that that was a big force in this election. And um, you know, companies are getting more and more, uh, involved in, in, in podcasting and telling their story and more of a longer format.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: Uh, than, let's say a company, uh, reporting their earnings and they have 15 minutes to kind of tell the story. It's just not really the format to kind of really get the whole story out, the whole strategy, the management team, things you're trying to say.

Speaker C: So you have to be considerate of not only the audience, but the content you're trying to get out there. And because listen, there's so much noise. So if you take a client and you look at what they're trying to do, what's the end goal? Right. And what are the vehicles or what are the channels you need to go through to get to reach that end goal. Um, but what would you recommend? Because I think it is interesting to hear, you know, because you have LinkedIn, you have Instagram, you have X, you have all of these different channels and not all of them are right for all clients.

Speaker A: No, not at all. And um, I would, I would go I would take a step back, like from a base level. If you have a company, if you're sponsor backed or if you're a public company, I think you have no choice but to be on offense and tell your story every day to a degree. Do you have to go absolutely bananas and like be all, uh, over every single social media channel? Probably not. But what I would tell you is that if you're not out telling your own story relentlessly, one of your competitors is going to tell it for you and they're going to get it wrong and you're not going to like it. And so I think every company, given what you mentioned before, how crowded the echo chamber is, uh, you know, of social media, you have to be out there fighting for shelf space in people's minds. Particularly if you're a consumer company, um, you're talking about getting the corporate brand out there, what does that do? It gives you a halo effect where you're, let's say, the employer of choice. You are the business partner of choice if you're in a consolidating industry. If a company wants to sell, they're like, who do I sell to? Wow. You know what, this company has such an amazing reputation all over social media and other places, you know, um, credibility in the media. And so I, I think that, um, you know, companies have to be out there doing it every day or, uh, they're just going to be forgotten. And there's a lot of people who are old school that think they just want to fly under the radar.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: And I'm not, I'm not sure that happens anymore. Even in a company like private equity, which is like super secret, like no one wants people to know what they're doing.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: They're out there fighting to attract money, the smartest employees, all this stuff. So every company now has to have a base approach to communicating their story.

Speaker C: So let me ask you then, in terms of communicating that story and sort of the strength of that story, how much of it is getting sort of personal? Right. In terms of like a voice, when you take, whether it's a consumer brand or if you take private equity, you know, what's that value in having those key stakeholders, um, be on record? Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, I think that I've run into a lot of CEOs in my time who are very low key, you know, and unfortunately I always say, like, somebody has to be the face of the organization whether you like it or not.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So you have to put yourself out there to a base level, you know, and that's going to conferences and speaking and that could be a financial investor type conference. It could be just an industry get together. It could be, you know, it could be some, it uh, could be speaking at like Dartmouth Business School or something.

Speaker C: Yep.

Speaker A: Get out there to a base degree, whatever you feel comfortable with. There's a lot of smaller, fast growing companies. Your listeners can check out a company called Midday Squares. Uh, they're a Canadian, uh, a Canadian, uh, company that makes chocolate and they're taking on, you know, Hershey and everything. The, I call them kids but you know, they're like third. They started this company and they have literally recorded like every day of the company, like the heartbreak, like they're over in the corner crying, have a nervous breakdown because they can't figure out like how to take the next step.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: And they're doing all this and the whole thing has become like a reality show.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: And it's really propelled their brand. And so I would say that's one extreme, you know, and then kind of the other extreme is just kind of a base level rifle shot. But you have to be involved some way.

Speaker C: But do you think those companies that are sort of baseline rifle shot, you know, are they going to experience that same growth as this other company who's, who's opening up their drawers and opening everything? Because I do think there's something, you know, in today's day and age, the authenticity. Right. Like consumers and those who are following, they just crave, um, connection. So how do you, how do you advise those companies that are a little bit more gun shy or maybe they're more traditional in their model? Like, are they going to see the same growth as those others?

Speaker A: Yeah, I, you know, I think the, the business part is one thing and the communications part is another thing. You know, if you have a quality company that is like, has a great product at the right time for the right market, like they're going to do well, you know, and then you have to like communicate the story beyond that, you know, created umbrella where hey, do we want to take this to Europe or Asia or somewhere else over time? Uh, and I think you have to put your, you know, you have to put yourself out there. You know, there's some companies that are kind of flatlining, let's say their revenue has been the same for five years or maybe it's declining or whatever. There's no communication strategy that I don't think really saves that. It's more of a marketing thing. Um, you know, where you'd have to just Be, be more precise with the mark marketing or the product or, or go back to the drawing board and reinvent it. But uh, there's really no amount of communications that can turn a business around. That's not a, uh, vibrant, growing business. But I do think that smart, intelligent comms being out there, making a personal connection with your different stakeholder groups enhances the value of a great company.

Speaker C: Yeah, I completely agree. And I think also that storytelling plays such a critical part in terms of, you know, helping companies not only build awareness, but build trust. Right. And, and maintain a strong reputation.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, there's no question. I, you know, I have a lot of, a lot of different cases where, um, a company pivoted. They, they, you know, kind of really bought into a, a comm strategy that has to come from the top. You know, we worked with Harman, which was a car stereo maker 20 years ago, and they were valued on Wall street like an oem, like the people who made fenders and you know, steering wheels and whatever, just very low. And, and they got a new CEO. They wanted to be at the forefront of the connected car and um, you know, uh, driverless, uh, technologies and things like that. And uh, they made that pivot and they wanted to get the CEO out there as the, uh, you know, foremost authority on, um, the connected car. And you know, we have a 10 year case study of speaking at business schools, being on cnbc, being in the Wall Street Journal. Every time they reference the connected car and that technology, um, Harman was part of it. And so, uh, their financial results had to match what they were saying and what they were promising. And it did. And they were bought out by Samsung for almost $10 billion. You know, I of course want to take credit for that.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: But, um, but it's a good example of how, you know, thought leadership getting your story out there creates untold investment opportunities for businesses and really can push valuation. Assuming the communications and the numbers all match.

Speaker C: Yeah, and I was going to ask you a little bit about that, um, you know, just the measurement of that. Right. Because you said you'd love to take credit and I'll give you credit, I will give you the credit on that one. But how do you measure that? Because having been in, you know, on your side, where the client's like, well, what is that really going to do for us? You know, is it just chipping away? Is it. Can you now point to. Okay, we were on X podcast that led to X listeners that then we saw the movement, we saw the needle. Um, what are you explaining to your, to your clients.

Speaker A: Yeah, you know, it's one of those odd things where, you know, you sit in the room with the management team and they kind of feel like, you know, they'll say, you know, we just kind of feel like we're misunderstood, um, or people don't really get, get the story. And you know, we can lay out all these examples of raising the visibility of a company. Um, it's very difficult to tie that back to, let's say, revenue, particularly at the corporate level. And what I mean by that is like the corporate brand, um, you know, Keurig, Green Mountain, getting on cnbc, being in the Wall Street Journal, being quoted. Very hard to like bring that to like a revenue number or even a market cap or stock price thing. But what I can tell you is that, um, our, our industry certainly wouldn't exist if it wasn't a big benefit to all the different stakeholders. Because I think when kind of the communication breaks down, if, if others are defining your brand, there's just confusion in the market and I think it just slowly atrophies away. Um, and then there's times when you can, you know, you can really tie it to a result. We get in a lot of crisis situations where, you know, um, I don't want to give precise examples, but where you know, one tiny thing can like completely unravel that can destroy a brand if a crisis isn't, um, isn't handled the right way.

Speaker C: And are you always on the ready for that? I mean that is part of the strategy is, is it's a go forward, proactive approach. But you've got to be ready for the backlash of whatever that might be that you're doing.

Speaker A: You have to be, you have to be ready to play defense. I mean, we had a, just you know, like a product recall. We, we briefly worked for Remington uh, rifles and they had a, A uh, problem where the trigger mechanism, mechanism broke down in like sub freezing temperatures and the gun would just go off. I believe a couple of people were hurt. Um, they had to recall a million rifles. Um, that is a communications thing that could, that. Well, it's a business issue that could destroy a company, but the communications with that. Think about finding all your customers. Think about telling your employees this problem. The media, you know what, like your phone is blowing up with calls from the media, um, the whole thing gets sensationalized. How do you handle all that? How do you put a buffer between, you know, yourself and those stakeholder groups? How do you choreograph what you're going to say and how you're going to say it. Um, I would argue that most companies, and you've probably been in this situation many times where they're kind of like, okay, we're going to do something, how are we going to communicate it?

Speaker C: Mhm. Right.

Speaker A: Like who's, how are we going to do this? Right. Everybody says that. It's almost like at the end of every meeting when you really make a big decision, it's like, how do we, how are we going to roll this out? How are we going to communicate it? So um, I think when you don't have it, the organization just naturally atrophies. Very tough sometimes to tie it to exact revenue or stock valuation or anything like that. But uh, but you know it when it's not there.

Speaker C: Yeah, you do know it when it's not there. And you can see it with other companies when they don't have it. Right. Um, and talking about these different platforms, the media platforms, the various outlets to tell your story, you know, here we are on the Safari podcast. I uh, want to talk about your podcast and was this just a natural evolution for you to launch your own podcast? Tell me a little bit about why you made that decision.

Speaker A: Yeah, um, you know, as.

Speaker C: And by the way, I just want to tell our listeners, welcome to the arena is Tom Ryan's ICR podcast.

Speaker A: Yes. Thanks for the plug. You, um, know, like being trained as a sell side analyst, you know, writing the buy hold sell research reports, you're kind of naturally, you have to be a bit of a reporter.

Speaker C: Hm.

Speaker A: Um, you know, you have to sit down with management and you know, you ask them all the questions about their strategy and you really get to know like a story. And I always found it fascinating to sit down with people who have gotten to that level. You know, CEOs, publicly traded companies, it takes, it takes a lot of ego to get there and a lot of drive and smarts. And then once you get there, it's kind of a whole different ball game. You have to surround yourself with smart people, be able to pick the best opinion in the room and you have to let go of your ego a little bit. Anyway, um, part of what we do is elevating our clients and uh, you know, letting them tell their story in a format where they can really have a half hour to do so. Kind of like we're doing today.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And uh, it was just a natural thing to start a podcast where we can feature clients, but also, um, people who aren't, aren't clients in the you know, folks who are in the ecosystem of, you know, mostly private equity backed or public companies, whether it's a banker, an IP attorney, someone like yourself, um, you know, the CEO of a company. I, I just recorded one yesterday with a digital infrastructure power company, um, that is kind of the backbone for AI because so much power is going to be required.

Speaker C: Yeah. Uh, so that's fascinating, actually, that conversation.

Speaker A: And like, a lot of, a lot of reporters may not be interested in covering that right now. And so we have an amazing network of reporters that we deal with and news outlets to get our client's story out. In the absence of that, you know, having people on the podcast, uh, to tell their story is great. And it's a length where they actually have time, uh, to talk about the strategy and clarify it and answer some, you know, some interesting questions. So I enjoy it because I can do it from anywhere. And I've done about 170 episodes. And uh, you know, it's been, it's been a good thing for the company, our clients, and I enjoy doing it as well as the stage of my career. Yeah.

Speaker C: And I've got to believe it's a pipeline for new business as well, if it's not your clients. And just having that connection is so important. And listening to other stories, um, I love that. So let's talk a little bit about culture, ICR Culture. Because I loved one of your quotes, which is about when you get to that stage, it's not about being part of a family, it's being part of a team. And, um, I think there is such a. It's, it's finite, but it, there's a difference there. Right. Um, talk to us about how you've built that winning culture at icr.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, it's an interesting evolution. You know, I started the company with two, my two best friends from high school. Um, one of them was my roommate in college. He married my cousin. You know, our kids are related. It was really like a family in the beginning. Yeah. And, and you know, you hit like 20 or 30 people, 40 people. It's still a family. Then you start thinking about, um, the whole, you know, what, what is a family? Right. It's kind of like Uncle Joe comes over for Thanksgiving. He talks politics and drinks too much, but you got to have them over every Thanksgiving, like, no matter what. Um, so we kind of started to pivot to, you know, the thought, like, hey, you know what, we're like a professional sports team. Like, we want to win the championship every year. So how do you do that, well, you need to have chemistry and you really need to care about each other kind of like a family does. But you're also a professional, you know, and you need the best people in the best slots and, or else like the whole team breaks down and you need a playbook and you need to, you know, move forward as a team. Not like uh, a little league team where everybody makes the team, you know, not even a high school team. This is like a professional team, a professional sports team. And so we let go of the fan. You know, we are still kind of family in many ways. But there's, you know, 450 people, many people who work at ICR, I don't know personally, which is like one of the worst things about, you know, getting to a certain size. It was always so great when you like, you knew everything about everyone worked, uh, there. And so I think the way to move forward, when you hit a certain size, if you're really serious about, you know, if you're private equity backed or if you're tracking to be a public company or you are a public company, it's not a bad analogy to think of because you still have to work together, have chemistry, care about each other. And those are really the teams that usually win the Super Bowl. The ones when they go into the locker room afterwards and there's an interview and they're like, we love each other. You know what I'm saying? But it's still a professional team.

Speaker C: Yep, that is so true. And I, I'm sure part of, you know, the challenge that you've had to face is that growth. Right. You know, as all companies do, it's like getting over that hump of your family into a team and you're still supporting one another, but you're working as a team and you're, it's a well run oiled machine.

Speaker A: So yeah, no question. You know, you, you hit a certain size and you don't know everyone, everybody's name anymore. As, as I was saying and you know, you have to, if you're going to keep, continue to grow, you're going to have to professionalize the organization in a lot of different ways.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, financially and P Ls and accountability and, and all of that and you know, it's, it's worth it because you know, we always say, look, we're a growth company because the growth company allows people to advance and make more money and get more responsibility and have like a great career. Just a company that's flatlining and you know, doing a certain amount in revenue and everybody's comfortable. And by the way, there's nothing wrong with that. Um, it's, it's just, you know, we, we want to be a growth company and it's just more exciting than not growing and, or going backwards, you know?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's fantastic advice. Um, I want to talk a little bit about communications and the evolution. We're talking about the evolution of corporate communications, um, over 25 years. You know, it's, it's really evolved. Is there anything that's really stand out to you? Um, where we are today and where you think future of corporate communications is going?

Speaker A: Yeah, one big thing, I think that's happened in the last ten years. Um, and I'll take a little bit more of a financial slant to the answer. In the year 2000, 2005, you could have a bunch of shareholders and you could be the CEO of a company and if the shareholder is like, well, you know, you should do this, this and this, it's like very important. It opens up a new market and whatever. And the CEO or the managed team or board would kind of be like, no, you know, like, we're not doing that. And if you're not on board, like, you can just sell the stock. Now, particularly for public companies, the management teams will be judged by their stock price, period, the value they create. And they have to be out there advocating, um, and articulating the plan, particularly with shareholders and the media. Um, and I'll tell you why. If you're not out there kind of proactively telling your story and making relationships with your shareholders, when an activist investor comes along, your shareholders, they know you, they trust you, they're on board with the plan. They're going to vote with you in a proxy fight. Same with the media. Most management teams are scared to death of the media. They don't want anything to do with it. They don't understand it. What you need to do, much like shareholders, go build relationships with, with reporters.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: You know, talk to them off the record, on background, educate them about your industry, about the company. You know, give them news to break every once in a while. Because when the, you know what hits the fan, you're going to need people on your side. That's not the time to start like dialing for donuts.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: You know what I'm saying?

Speaker C: Like by the time desperately trying to

Speaker A: build relations, time something bad happens, you already want those relationships.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so I think, you know, a few things have evolved obviously for a public company, very much More high stakes than it was say 20 years ago. Um, obviously the, the uh, ubiquitous nature of social media that uh, has been a change. And then I just think the general like fighting for shelf space in people's minds, whether at the corporate brand level or just at the marketing level is so key. So you almost need to have like an internal engine. Like a lot of times, you know, companies, you know, they're, they're, they're uh, they're always on these, such tight budgets and you know, companies who kind of don't invest in that part I'm just very suspect of because they, you know, you have to be ready for a crisis, you have to be able to go on offense. You know, culture is about communicating to your employees and all of your business partners and all of your stakeholders, you know, and uh, and if you're not investing in that and you think people are gonna just kind of get it on their own, well what do people do? They go on the Internet and they like listen to some chat room or something. Right. They don't know, they're just looking for information. You have to control your own information.

Speaker C: Yeah, and I, that's such a good point in terms of controlling and in the areas you need to control. And I was thinking about, you know, those C suite individuals, like how do you control their message? Right. So you want them to put the message out there, but you don't want them going completely rog. And um, and, and then you have to do the crisis management to pull it back. So where's that fine balance with, with the ones you're working with to say like, we'll let you go but we're going to script you so that the message is controlled.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, um, one area where we do a ton of work is with the investor communications part. And so you know, every public company has to communicate their story four times a year at the very least when they report their earnings.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Most management teams, particularly of small, fast growing companies, I would define that as, you know, market value between 500 million and 10 billion. Um, you know, they're like great operators and they grew up in their industry and you know, you get to be a public company, particularly if you're a first time CEO. Like the stock market is so intimidating to be like a public company. And you know it's, it's, it's part science, you know, price over earnings and like how you're valued. But it's so much like it's art, you know, it's like um, there's no like, okay well, I'm gonna send you to school to understand the stock market and like how you're supposed to communicate with those investors. Every single word you say matters. And that group wants to quantify everything you say. You could have a CEO that's like a pleaser. You know, they, they, they, they treat shareholders like customers, which is like the worst thing to do. But they're trying to tell people what they want to hear. And now all of a sudden they've increased expectations to the point that they can't live up to it financially.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so on. Um, those calls we'll, we'll literally script out the management team and almost. And all of those conference calls are basically transcribed by you know, big data service providers and sold. And so every word you say is transcribed. You know, all the questions are transcribed, all the answers. You know, companies need to prepare to you know, fake Q and A like a few times, you know, read through, rehearse. It's like a performance but the very tightly scripted on the words that they use and you know, very high stakes if you get that wrong.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, and then that, to add a little bit to that just in terms of the advice you would give to those companies that are out there who haven't taken the step. Right. You know, maybe they're not public companies, they're a little bit scared about that corporate communications and what that actually means. Um, I'd love to, I'd love to hear your advice in terms of like how do you do it? How do you move forward to navigate the challenges, um, and the opportunities in, in their businesses.

Speaker A: Well, yeah, I mean I think when I sit down with management teams, I start with kind of like what's your strategy? Right. You know, and some companies are, they're stuck, you know, they're stuck in low growth, um, industries with like secular ah, trends that aren't, you know like favorable. Uh, you know, you have an incoming administration that ah, uh, for example is you know, um, trying to get Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Um, uh, confirmed. And what does that mean if you're a food company?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker A: You know, you're kind of sitting back and you're like, well, what is this going to mean to me and all, all your employees? Like every single person you deal with is like, what does this mean if our portfolio of brands, you know, are you know, maybe less on the healthy side? Like whatever.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: So I think, you know, I start with like, all right, well what's the business strategy? You um, want to own this? You want to amplify it. And you want to get the story out so that you'll have opportunities, you know, like if you. If the only way you can grow is through M and A and buying other businesses, you want every single business out there thinking, geez, you know, when we sell ourselves, we're work. Our first call is company xyz.

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker A: Right. Or if, you know, some kids coming out of MIT or some great school and they're like, where am I going to work? You know? And like, you know what? I'm interested in this industry and you know what I'm going on, right? The Internet. And I'm looking at the digital footprint. Like, the company has to have a digital footprint because that kid's going to be like, my number one application is going to go into that company. So it's something that people don't really think about. But I think, you know, there's just some companies that have a halo effect who are always telling their story. Like, I think Jamie Dimon does a great story. I'm sorry, does a great job of communicating at JP Morgan because, uh, A, he is always communicating their story, but B, he's like, very authentic. Like, when there's bad news, he'll tell you. And all of a sudden you're like, wow, you know what? I like this guy because in a world of bullshitters.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, he's a straight shooter. And to your early point, you know, off, you know, authenticity is really the cornerstone of all the, uh, communication. You can't be out there, you know, all over the press or all over, you know, whatever other outlets are and be like, insincere, right. Where your company's really not doing what you're saying. That's a recipe to lose your job.

Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Well, one more point here, because I know you just came off this incredible conference and you do this on an annual basis. I just want to have our listeners hear a little bit more about the ICR conference. And if you, in a quick sound bite, can give me, you know, sort of top takeaways that you learned, um, I'd love to hear.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, um, the conference has its own website. It's. It's ICR conference.com. uh, very riveting and exciting name. But we've been doing it for. We've been doing it for 27 years. It's basically 200 companies come about. 120 of those are public. The rest are private. We have a thousand institutional investors. Uh, we have 400 professionals from, you know, who's who of private equity firms. Uh, Attorneys search firms. It's a consumer conference, generally, meaning that most of the companies there that present are selling something directly to the consumer or a retailer or a food company or whatever. And we have a keynote speaker every year. But, uh, it's great to have it in January because everyone kind of. And we've been doing it for 27 years. Everybody gets down to the event, and it's like a fresh piece of paper for 2025. What is everybody thinking as we look out to this year? And I think for the conference this year, there is a tremendous amount of optimism. We had record, uh, attendees, which leads me to believe, like, people are really optimistic about this year.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I think the economy is doing well. I think people are looking at a more favorable regulatory environment. Um, people are looking at the capital markets opening back up after two really difficult years, whether that's M&A or IPOs or getting, uh, financing. And then on the other side, there's a lot of uncertainty. And when there's uncertainty, everyone kind of like, clings to each other is like, what are you hearing? What do you think? You know?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So it's like, hey, what are tariffs going to do if that happens?

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Um, what happens if taxes go down? If taxes go up? If, you know. So, um, I think people are optimistic. I think they feel there's a pro business, uh, administration in there. And I think they're, uh, you know, have a. Are also very positive on the capital markets opening up and financing's happening in M and A and all of that, and possibly interest rates easing a little bit from here, which would be a big help for everyone. So all in all, um, honestly, it's my favorite three days of the year. I, uh, have a whole team that does an amazing job to organize it and execute it, and I just kind of float around and get the accolades from it. But it's a massive team effort. And, uh, you should come.

Speaker C: I know. Well, listen, we could spend an entire next podcast on just that conversation. But before we end, everyone's optimistic. And you said this. What are you most optimistic about for the year ahead for icr, as well as just sort of the corporate communications landscape?

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, for ICR, you know, uh, in 2021, there was, like, a huge blow off top in the stock market. And if. If listeners kind of recall, it was the year of these SPACs, you know, special Purpose Acquisition Corps, and everybody's going public. Literally, like, everything that wasn't nailed to the ground was sold. So it was, you know, 10 IPOs a month. Like SPACs, everything. We had like a massive blow off top and then it really like all of a sudden interest rates went from like 0 to 5%.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: In the fastest time period that's ever happened. It just ground everything to a halt. And so we had a couple of years where, you know, and we do well in a market where there's a lot of M and A and IPOs, we have couple years there where there was just like nothing, you know. And so, uh, for ICR, I'm optimistic that uh, the, the capital markets and IPOs are coming back. And in fact, uh, you know, we're working on a few right now. And just more generally, like when there's more uncertainty in the world, when there's chaos, when there's volatility, you know, companies need to have us around.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Y. Um, and you know, we're, we're, we always form uh, teams around areas that are interesting and emerging, like crypto. I'm not saying I'm a crypto expert, but we have a team that is focused on, you know, that whole like blockchain ecosystem, crypto, everything around that, uh, that's exciting. And then, you know, I think stepping back, uh, you know, this is a bipartisan comment. Everyone's happy the election's over.

Speaker C: Yes. Right, yes.

Speaker A: Especially like if you lived in Ohio or Pennsylvania.

Speaker C: But there's like a release generally.

Speaker A: Yeah, there's a little more certainty and you know, hopefully a pro, a pro business, uh, environment. And uh, you know, listen, if, if, uh, if, if we can just kind of take advantage of all the resources and the people in this country. You know, there's like, I see it on my podcast and I'm sure you do too. You know, there are, there are people in this country who have, you know, taken large amounts of capital. They are just like going for it every day and um, you know, really trying to live the American dream. And it's like, if you can't be optimistic about that, like you're, you're, you know, you're nuts. So I just love seeing all these like small, fast growing companies going forward every day trying to create value, trying to hit the home run. And you know, the more that hit the home run, the better it is for everybody, all the citizens of this country and the global economy.

Speaker C: Yeah, I love it. And on that note, we're going to end it with let's go 2025. Um, Tom Ryan, this has been such a pleasure. Grateful for your time. I know we're going to have to have a follow up podcast because I have so many more questions. But, um, thank you for joining us on the safari.

Speaker A: Thanks so much, Kate. Appreciate it.

Speaker B: If you want to learn a little bit more about Traub, you can go to Traub IO, where you'll learn a lot about everything that we do. If you're enjoying the, uh, safari, please do share it with your friends and colleagues within the industry. And please also don't forget to subscribe and like it. Till next time.