GEO: The New Frontier of Brand Visibility in the AI Era

Speaker A: Hope this.

Speaker B: Hello out there. Hey, it's Paul Mosenson. Remember me? Another podcast, uh, started it before the pandemic and now, um, gonna take another shot at it.

Speaker A: Haha.

Speaker B: That's a little pun. But um, here we are. Uh, speaking of that, you know what helps me out with puns and other things is, and content is, uh, we all know about AI, right? And uh, of course we do. AI this, AI that. What's going on here? Like open up Microsoft Word. What are these little boxes? Oh, uh, it's Copilot, you know, and then um, let's see, I'm doing Google and you know, I'm doing Adobe. Hey, would you like that AI summary? Like, like I can't get away from it, you know, but it's important thing too. It's really, really helpful. It's funny how like, you know, even if you have like HubSpot, Salesforce, AI this, AI that, a, uh, you know, it's, it's all over, you know. So, um, the point of the matter is, is people are using the tools right now. Marketing, sales, other departments, you know, consumers, or you never know. Um, but you know, it's, it's, uh, we're not, excuse me, we're not going to talk about too much a little bit, but um, we are going to talk about a certain aspect of it. And uh, with my guest, we're going to use a three letter phrase and maybe more, um, not SEO, but something called geo and uh, generative, um, engine optimization, I believe. Uh, I have a special guest who we're going to talk about that together. If I pronounce anything wrong, he'll correct me. And his name is Zachary Konopka.

Speaker A: You got it, Paul.

Speaker B: Okay. Welcome to the show.

Speaker A: Thank you so much. Really happy to be here.

Speaker B: Let me do an introduction. Um, he sent me a long introduction and I copied it into ChatGPT and I said, short this for me too. Here we go. You ready? Let's do it. All right. See if it's right. This is, uh, without prompting, except the copy, uh, and paste. Zachary Canopta is a seasoned partnership and revenue executive with over 20 years of experience driving growth across SaaS, tech and communications. Currently a fractional CRO at Cloudlayer AI and he's also an executive advisor at Bahamix. Okay, so even though there's an A in there, um, and uh, I'm gonna make sure you pronounce it right. So. Yep, he specializes in go to market strategy, enterprise partnerships and business development. And he's a, another AI solution expert. Um, you know, he's led, um, leadership roles, uh, many companies and communication companies and um, he's a published thought leader, holds a degree in strategic AI based in Easton pa, near me in Philly. Zachary balances his professional impact with a strong commitment to family and community. And everybody together. Go. Ah, so very, very nice. So uh, thanks for joining on the show.

Speaker A: Yeah, Paul, I'm excited to be here. I was really happy to jump at the opportunity to chat with you.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. You know, we've had a lot of different discussions over the years talking about media, advertising, did it work, and done stuff on my own, stuff with AI and you know, different topics when we started this thing. And um. But you know, here's the thing is um, you know, even I'm starting a newer uh, venture called New Spark Profit. And you spark profit for those people out there. Um, you know, a suite of uh, solutions to help companies grow and profit and save all those things together. You know, I mean it saved the. There's a lot of work involved with that. But at the end of the day though, it's, it's um, providing solutions to companies that um, you know, need to be found. And you know, a lot of the white label companies I have on the site, we're not going to get too much detail in it, but I create a lot of relationships with companies, including Behemix. I say it right?

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Correct.

Speaker B: Is, um, is, uh. All right. Um, is, uh. Um. Is the fact that uh, you know there, there's a. How do I find some of these and how do I find the legitimacy of some of these? Because some categories have a lot of companies. Like I'm going to do an fba FPQ company or a uh, fpa, I mean uh, cpq and a lot of different initials, like different softwares, different inventory tools, ERP tools. Um, I don't know which ones to go, so I'm going to go to AI. You know, my favorite chat GPT is, you know, you know, I created gameforge AI, a suite of AI tools. But I went to AI and um, basically uh, said what are the top companies that um, are in this category that I could look at that may offer a partnership program? Right. I'm not going to Google search doing that first folks, are you? You know, I'm going to get AI's opinion, whichever tool you use. Because I seem to be trusting them more. Right. With um, because they're giving opinions and giving uh, approaches and things like that. And I found companies to do business with on AI. Tools rather than the old way of SEO, doesn't mean that's a bad thing. It's just another option for people. Right. And uh, so we're going to talk about that. Right. So that wanted to like leap into this category of, you know, however you want to call it, AI search, AI this or you know, how people are going to find companies and solutions. Right. And uh, so my question to uh, Zachary, who manages that. Why don't you talk about before we get started, give me like another, you know, maybe a two, three word sentence scenario of what you see, um, you know, what your company does and how you uh, you know, introduce you know, this category of Generative Engine Optimization or geo.

Speaker A: Yeah, Paul, I mean first I'd say great introduction. I think uh, you kicked it off in the, in the right spirit of uh, what this conversation about should be about. I mean I really think the strategic opportunity is you know, looking at AI platforms because they're replacing sort of your traditional search journeys and they're really creating a new paradigm for content discovery. Um, it's important how that we're ranked within um, AI generative summaries just so we maintain visibility. So what Behemix does is it focuses on creating a, uh, number of tools that support organizations that um, optimize their websites for both your traditional SEO search as well as your generative engine or AI optimization. So being able to rank on things like ChatGPT and Gemini along with Google. Um, you know, traditionally we've been working in the E commerce and retail space. Um, you know, but with this boom of AI and these sort of engines, it really affects every sort of industry and every sort of vertical, uh, with which someone may be working in. And so what we try to do is ensure that their content and the information they're trying to put out to the world is found by the type of consumer and clients that they may have, uh, to better understand how to um, capture that potential prospect.

Speaker B: Right, right, right. Well the word capture is the big word, right? I mean, yep. I mean at the end, you know we, we think about um, you know, these scenarios here of um, um, I mean here's the thing like, and this is, you know, SEO or search engine 101 is, you know, there's a trigger event going on at a company or even a person. Right. If it's B2C. But they're ah, they've already decided they need to find a solution to something, whether it's a, um, what I call mid funnel, which is um, how and why and the best and all those kinds of things. Like, I'm going to do research to find the right solution, um, which can lead to the final solution, which is, you know, basically saying, okay, I need to buy something. I need the best software, I need the top companies, the best auditors, the best lawyer, whatever it is, you know, I can.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: You know, because it's sometimes, you know, if you, the average person may not know, but like, you know, they have choices there. You know, back in the day, it was like, still, I mean, imagine that you're a local SEO, and I'm just, you know, just having conversation here about, um, oh, let's see here. Oh, this company is, you know, I mean, a cons. A business may not say ranked organically. We know that, but you might say, oh, they were listed here. Oh, uh, they're also on the map. I could click that. Or they're, oh, look, they're actually doing a search ad, you know, that sponsor with a little promotion. Should I click that? I have three choices here. For me, they can ask how the AI Mode or Gemini or my other tool, and said, you know, here's what I'm looking for. What do you think is the best one? You know, like, I have, like, all these different, um, you know, choices to make, you know, and, you know, and. But as AI grows, as you've seen, like, that is my first choice. Right. Because I'd like to almost get, you know, I know what they're doing is so far, we think is not, you know, ranking because of, uh, SEO companies who write good content. Right. Rather, they're. But. But now we're starting to probably get in that a little bit. You know, what are your thoughts? Like, you're kind of like, we have to design, you know, the back end of. Well, let's go into that a little deeper about website content and things like that and, um, how that, you know, how the AI engines work to find, um, those companies. If I'm using an AI tool.

Speaker A: Sure. I mean, I think first, you know, you initially prefaced this question around, um, you know, what an SEO company is doing or could be doing. And it's still at the end of the day, when you're looking at clients or potential clients, you know, are they saying they need this thing because they have this fear of missing out, or are they able to articulate a real pain point? Because sometimes it's a technical issue with their website that's not loading fast enough. Sometimes they're not being found in Google, sometimes they're not being found in, um, you know, Some of these generative engine engines out there, sometimes that they're having, uh, they don't understand the behavior of their consumer and how they're navigating on their website and are they filling out number of ah, issues, you know, relative to the psychology of the consumer that you need to address more than just, you know, are they searching for me. That being said, generative, uh, engine optimization or AI optimization is a really important piece of it. And so how does it, let's, let's talk sort of bare bones around what it, what it looks like or how it works. So yeah, generative engine optimization is essentially the practice of optimizing content to appear in an AI generated summary like GPT or excuse me, um, Gemini. Right. So these models extract and summarize more or less Top 10 search results and create a new layer of content creation. From a competitive visibility standpoint though only the top two to five URLs are actually, excuse me, Paul. Are actually selected for these AI summaries. So making inclusion is really, it's highly competitive and it's super valuable. Um, and that's what folks need to focus on in terms of what are the requirements around making sure that you're showing up in the optimization. You know, you have to think about your contact, your content structure, you have to think about your semantic relevance, you have to think about your backlink profile and you have to think about your trust indicators. Those are the things that are really going to be driving your AI visibility.

Speaker B: What? That's a lot of, that's a lot of stuff. But, yeah, but let me um, um, let me read again. A lot of these are coming just out of my head here. Right, sure is. Uh, you know, again we're trying to, you know, we're like having a conversation at a dinner restaurant. We're talking here.

Speaker A: Right, yeah, for sure.

Speaker B: You know, like, um, all right, the SEO company, we do a, uh, okay, let's. Typical ranking scenario, you have backlinks and all that, internal links, page titles with keywords, descriptions and all that kind of stuff to, you know, try to influence a search engine to say this is important, so we're going to raise it up and remember the old days of changing algorithms. Hey, we're not on the first page anymore. What happened?

Speaker A: No, they changed. Yeah, now we're down again after all

Speaker B: the money we're paying you anyway. Um, but. Oh no, um, but that could change with anything really. Um, but uh, the point though is, um, there's a, you know, it's been like ever since search engine started you know, we, we have to. But all of a sudden now um, that uh, I know there's a lot of factors here and we'll talk about the external ones in a minute, which with a Claude or a Gemini Perplexity Chat of course is um, you know, how they're automatically finding the solutions. Are they, you know, obviously they're going maybe to a website and finding really good information. So is there, going back to the website? You talk about schema. I mean I don't want to get too detailed, but do we have to rewrite and post a certain page now in our blog or site that's a little different than what we had been doing? And is there a way to do both SEO and GEO at the same time? Where do we alternate? Like what are your thoughts?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, so I think um, there's a few different thoughts here. I mean, so keywords are, you know, traditionally SEO is, is thought about in the context of keywords and the volume that's, that's showing up to ensure that um, you know, you're, you're part of that discussion from an SEO perspective. But now um, you really have to think about the context and in which those words are being used and their semantic relevance to the content being provided. The algorithms for what you're getting out of a uh, Google search engine versus a Chat GPT or a Gemini are going to be significantly different. Right? So for example, if you're looking at the headline of an article and the title, the first title of that same page and you're utilizing similar words, the same words there, that's something with, in which Google may knock you down a few points in your terms of your rankings, but something like Chat GPT, um, may in fact like ah, some of that redundancy because it's, it's um, you know, sort of building the content to be similar throughout the whole um, article, for example. So it's important to realize that there's, there's different ways in which um, those engines are looking at things. One of the things we recommend with our clients is to really look at um, you know, optimizing for all of those engines by creating multiple pages of similar content that are taking into account how those engines look at semantics and look at vectorization and look at different AI model logic that would increase those scores based on the contents meeting meaning and not necessarily the keyword frequency. So um, you know, measuring how AI interprets your content and not just how a crawler index is really important.

Speaker B: I mean that's a lot to think about you know, as far as uh, or do we have to redo our website to get shown on AI tools now? You know like I mean we just talk about now and in the future versus let's go back and do uh, if you really want to be on AI solutions down the road, do we update your website now with structure? I don't know the answer to that. I'm just like make pretend I don't know. Right. What would you say to somebody like that?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean so like we have a tool we utilize at Behemix and essentially in real time someone can get their website crawled, all the pages on their website crawled and you go into the dashboard and you're able to look my content scoring for Google is at this number. While at Chat GPT, it's at this number. In Gemini it's at this number. This is all in real time concurrently looking at that. So with our tool we can, we have the ability to go in there, um, you know, click on Improve. A number of, of suggestions will then pop up and it will show you if you utilize that content suggestion then your score will go up and down um, based on whatever engine you're looking at. Chat GPT or Google or whatever it may be. And so what we do is suggest clients go in there and look at all of their content, optimize each title, each headline, each paragraph, everything throughout their website. And you can do it with all, with a, you know, click of a button we connect it back to their website as well. We have a plugin for that so they can essentially optimize uh, and refresh their, their page and it'll be updated immediately. So not only do we provide the tools to improve that content in terms of how they're going to rank across those engines, but we give them the ability to publish it in real time as opposed to having to copy and paste and go back and forth and figure out which web page uh, they need to do that too. So that's been, that's been our approach. That's the Behemoths way of doing it. Um, there's other you know, popular tools out there for, from an analytics perspective that um, you know, a lot of people know, Semrush for example for the analytics of it and they do a great job and it's a tool we leverage as well from an analytical perspective. But it's important to keep in mind there's a difference between solutions that analyze your, your website or analyze your content and solutions that can optimize it as well.

Speaker B: Okay, I'M going to ask like a lot of business questions, so bear with me. Um, the face of the audience or the whatever.

Speaker A: Um, sure.

Speaker B: Interesting so far. But you know, again, I'm talking about strategy, right? You know, now with the AI is here and I'm thinking about I can't be number one everywhere, you know, whatever, right? If I'm a company and I see myself, no matter what we did, you know, no matter what happens, you know, obviously in a certain search, in the old days, still the new days, like if you're a software company and you got all the aggregators, you know, G2s, captains, whatever, they're still there, and tech targets and all these other things and you know, I mean, used to be pages, but I know, I know nowadays people scroll, scroll until they find your solution, you know, but that's very rare. They want to hit maybe three or four and then they stop, right?

Speaker A: So, right.

Speaker B: If I'm on like page four or five and I love, you know, and we just do, I mean, so much effort to try to get up there or do we change our strategy and say, you know what, in the future, okay, we're four or five page four faith or whatever, let's focus more on the geo and try to lead that one. What are your thoughts?

Speaker A: I mean, I think you can, you can optimize across all of them and I think, uh, the solutions we have in place allow you to do that. I mean at the end of the day, um, you can create multiple uh, pages of the same content. Now what's showing up on your website versus what may be, for example like an orphan page may have the exact same content, right? But the content is slightly variant based on how those, um, different engines that you're looking to be optimized for, uh, are going to measure it, right? So maybe you're optimizing your homepage for Google, for example, and that's what people are seeing when they click on whatever your website is, dot com, right? But you may have some pages in the background that are essentially very similar content, but they're not what, you know, you're clicking on whatever.com and showing up, but it's in the background where that content is being optimized for chatbots. And maybe you have another page that's very similar, but that content is being optimized for, um, Gemini. Right? So that way when these engines are crawling the World Wide Web, they can still find that information, um, and they're still finding you as one of the relevant authorities for whatever that ah, subject or Content that someone may be searching for. So that would be our approach. I mean you have to remember too though it's not just about content. You know, um, how you're talking about other things.

Speaker B: Yeah, but go ahead.

Speaker A: Yeah. How you're linking out and where you're linking out to is also important. Volume is certainly important but the quality of your, your links as well are the difference between um, an improvement in rankings and potentially a deduction if there's no content relevance in relation to um, where your website may be linking out to. Like for example if you are a bank and you're linking out to a plumbing website, that's probably going to have a negative effect on the strength of your links, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah, well let's ah. Get, let me talk about more of um, you know the pure geo process with these sites. Now I was reading this and um, you know you could probably find it but um, you know a typical SEO they have the backlink profile. You know, remember we used to find tools and do, please do as a guest blog and get us in a good directory so we can get a backlink and Google like that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Nowadays I think like I was reading and you know, so let's just talk about what I saw some research was they take information from Wikipedia from, from Reddit and I seen you know in my own searches from third, you know maybe you know ranking websites that has to be trustworthy. Like you know they're more like affiliate websites. Top 10. Everybody rates the top 10 stuff. You know it's all you know, just a sidebar. I've seen this a lot where you know a company who sells something will say here's the top 10 in this category, include their competitors in their article. But they know people are going to find them and then click on themselves. Like it's a different kind of a weird strategy right. To promote other companies. But you're number one you know. Um, but uh, the uh, you've seen that I'm sure but the uh, but you know so going back like a chat GBT or whatever, you know I've seen like the uh, you know they're you know again their job is not. Is try to give you the right like non SEO but more of like a real based on their, the LLM process of something that we're going to be, try to be unbiased. Right. Of course, uh, with an answer that you're looking for may not be a total answer but they're going to give you something based on you know, whether it's ratings you know, people giving you positive reviews or opinions. But I mean, you know, and I read a lot about Reddit, you know, and how important that is and what is that big one.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, so why don't you cover all that then I ask you more about Reddit, but give me like the differences of, you know, not the technical stuff but the strategy of um, you know, other ways to get yourself, you know, other than the content, but other places to be or you know, that these AI tools look at and say, yeah, they should be in our, in our solution that somebody asked for something.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I think you want to look at things like relevance. You want to look at um, the volume of visitors every month to a particular site. I mean one of the tools we support um, is, is the ability to look at a backlink and see um, if it'll be um, the likelihood of its inclusion and odds and inclusion of something like ChatGPT or Gemini. You have to think about what type of anchor text or domain authority also is going to contribute to uh, your ranking within geo. So um, you know, from our perspective we try to help our clients predict their backlink impact before acquisition. We try to recommend low cost, high impact links that are tailored to their content store and the relevance of the information that they're sharing. And then we try to look at how can we integrate that backlink strength into the scoring of what they're seeing through our platform that allows them to make the best choices around um, their acquisition strategy and who is most aligned or most relates to uh, their content or subject matter matter expertise that they want the world and their client or customer base to know about.

Speaker B: Well, you know, we don't want to get too much in the weeds here but um, you know, but again from a high uh, level educational perspective here, right Is uh, you know, when I talked about Wikipedia or third party sites and like Reddit for example I saw was like one of the top sources that these things like what is. Because not everybody on Reddit but their opinion like Core in a way. You know, remember Quora? I think it's still around anyway. But the point though is like oh, if someone says, oh I saw this report that Reddit is a big thing, how do you be there? Do you like get your social media coordinator and say scan these keywords and topics and find things and then give responses and, but you know, you don't want to be salesy. Like is that, or is it just kind of third party saying you should use this tool?

Speaker A: Like, I mean there's so many forums in Reddit that allow you to contribute information to so many different topics. Understanding who's contributing the most on topics related to where you're interested. Trying to build relationships professionally with folks like that. Making sure that your content people and social media people and marketing people are finding a presence not only on things like LinkedIn and, and X and Instagram and TikTok, but also looking at things like Reddit, making sure you have a good, good Google business profile. Obviously, um, I mean it all, it all sort of works together, but understanding, you know, where are the highest volume of visitors, looking for information related to what you're sharing, um, is important. And so you want to make sure that you're present there. And it takes some um, you know, time to research these sort of things depending on, you know, the sort of specialty that you have. Um, but the strategy needs to be built around um, going to authoritative type of sites where there's getting a high volume of, of people to share what you have that's important to the world in terms of whatever your service or product that um, you're trying to share.

Speaker B: Well, but to your point though, um, just for the, you know, the average person out there, um, well, you're all above average out there. But um, the um, like Facebook and LinkedIn posts are walled gardens. I mean, so they're probably not as picked up as much. I could be wrong. Which is why Reddit is so high. Because Reddit posts are uh, they're not what I mean, they're ranked.

Speaker A: Right. And chat like chat GPT or these, these geo engines can't crawl LinkedIn. Right. So they have to look for different sources where they're finding, you know, good volumes of visitors and people talking about specific topics. Right. Unless you have a LinkedIn profile, they're not, those engines aren't able to go in there and necessarily crawl it very easily unless you're using some, some um, you know, potentially um, expensive tools.

Speaker B: Nice thing. But so what we're getting at here is like, obviously there's like the website optimization we spoke about, you know, and that's a whole, you know, you can get more detail, but we don't want to hear but about how it's structured. I mean, obviously you don't want to have um, duplicate content either. Right. Because that was the whole thing with, with Google anyway in search engines, you know. Yeah, try to have, it's almost like having a different topic and maybe not as much as the keywords and more as, you know, as far as the uh, I always talked about with SEO and search engines anyway is you know, is user intent, buyer intent? You know, if you're uh. I used to have a company years ago, a client and I actually let go their SEO company because they always said, oh, look at the traffic we're getting. Yes, but they're uh, they're learner traffic. They're not buyer traffic. Right. We want buyer intent people. Right? That's SEO. And really otherwise you know, it's, it's intent traffic that you could retarget to who might be interested in your service versus you know what I'm saying? So you could say like, you could say like, you know again that's a whole keyword strategy. I don't want to get too much into that. But if you're doing the uh, geo, I mean, I mean basically you want to write non promotional because they want to have content that's can uh, help people. Right? Um, and um, and then that's where Reddit comes in. So when we're talking about Reddit and things like you know, it's like, oh, that used to be like is that just for young, you know, 25 year old, you know, um, rev up people or whatever, you know. But they're actually uh, but you know, they're actually, I mean listen, if that's the tool then you have to have a strategy. You have to have, yeah, it's fun to go in and uh, respond to people on LinkedIn or social and comment but you got to be an act. You almost have to have an active engagement on Reddit whether it's, you know. And then.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I think there's generally there's sort of three top issues that, that organizations need to think about, right? It's their content and how well they're optimizing it. For each of the search engines in which they hope to be found. It's thinking about their backlink strategy. Not only the volume of links they have, but the quality. And then finally looking at their site health, right? Are their pages loading too slow? Are they flagged for performance issues? Are there accessibility problems, for example? Um, are there uh, page sizes too large, for example where it's leading to slow load times, you know, high speed indexing where you know, meaning that your site is visually slow to users. Those things all affect um, engagement and interaction with your, with your um, website and ultimately if someone's going to purchase something from you or engage with you. So it's really a threefold strategy. The content, the backlink and the site health that people you know are Just going to speak in general terms. Those are the things that folks need to think about.

Speaker B: Well, from a high level, um, approach here, you know, it's basically, uh, these are all like little factors. Like, I know that like for one client I asked Gemini, like, how come we didn't show up here. So here's another thing we can talk about is the reason why there, it's, it's kind of related. He actually had a, it actually said that there was a better, um, Business bureau negative comment about it that was not answered. Right. It picked that up. Like it mentioned that, um, number two, um, you know, again, quality reviews. Now we don't want people paying for reviews, but it's like, you know, a lot of stuff with, you know, like the old Amazon 3.5 kiss of death. Right. Versus four stars. You know, they don't want to Recommend People with 3 stars if there's 4 or 4 and a half stars. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So, you know, you're not. I mean that's probably those two scenarios and even responding to people and you know, like anything though, it's, it's. So we want to just cover that for a minute or two about how important that is with these, uh, AI tools.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, reviews, regardless of your industry, are important. I think you need to have a good strategy, um, to make sure that you are consistently following up with people who've had success leveraging your products or your, um, solutions or your services to be willing to give that feedback. And if that means creating some sort of carrot or discount for them moving forward, um, it's definitely worthwhile because the more positive information about your organization, your site you can get out there, um, the more likely you're going to be found. Not only because it's positive content relating to what you're doing, but it's also relevant to the information that you're trying to share. So, um, you know, I think it's, um, tougher to get reviews in some industries than under others. And I think, um, you know, consumers can sometimes be pretty tough on businesses when it's undeserved. But unfortunately it's. It's the sort of nature of a capitalist market, I suppose. So, um, you know, it's important to be, be mindful of those and trying to get, you know, good quality reviews and a good volume of those reviews to improve your relevance and improve your visibility and um, you know, the types of searches that people are making or, or having for your type of business.

Speaker B: True, true. I mean, it's all important anyway. Yeah, we're almost done here. So this is a good conversation. I mean, there's so much you can talk about. But, you know, let me ask you this as, let's say I'm, um, a CEO, which I am anyway. But, um, let's just say that, um, I go to my SEO company and says, are you guys on this? Like, I mean, is everybody like, learning, guessing, you know, is it just, you know, learning from other. Like, what is. I mean, I'm just saying, isn't that a challenge now to. Yeah. Hire some? I mean, we don't want to be too promotional here, but we can a little bit. But the point though is, you know, what is the challenge? That there's so many people, do they say, I'm not touching that, I'm going to stick with the basics, or are they challenged to learn this stuff? Or they.

Speaker A: Yeah, you gotta do it, you gotta learn it. There's statistics out there that over 80% of searches have moved away from, um, you know, the Googles and Yahoos of the world to your Chat GPTs and your Gronks and your Geminis. So you're gonna get left in the dust if you don't think about how to optimize, um, your business or the new ways in which people are looking for you. I think we are really, my organization is really fortunate. I mean, our founders are former Google AI engineers and they understand, you know, the algorithms that are in place or, um, you know, how, um, how you can optimize what's most important in terms of showing up. You know, we've used large language models to, um, analyze literally millions and millions of sites and understand based on, you know, someone's relevance and how they're showing up in searches on things like Chat GPT and what changes they've made or what consistencies that they have and then being able to take that in over and over and over. That's how we're very confident in understanding, um, that these tools work to ensure that if you follow this process, if you optimize in such and such a way, if you leverage, uh, the appropriate lengths and you have a, you know, appropriate volume tied to it, there's no reason you can't show up in your traditional search engines as well as the new, um, ways of looking at things through an AI lens. So, um, you know, as it is throughout history and with everything, you have to embrace change. Right? Change is what, uh, moves things forward, change is what drives innovation, uh, and change is ultimately what creates opportunity for all of us. So, um, you Know, being willing to look at that and being willing to ask for help, being willing to, um, do some discovery and research around what's available. Um, you know, in respect to how I can improve where my business's visibility is and how I can, um, you know, be what's showing up for people is important. And you know, in 10 or 15 or 20 years, I'm sure there'll be new tools and new terms and uh, new situations that we're going to have to think about this stuff again and again and again. And it's just the, the nature of business.

Speaker B: Sure, sure. Um, it can cause some angst now with all these new things out there. We always have to. I mean, listen, AI might have been angst in the beginning, but it's accepted. So, you know, and, and you know, it's, it's really the bottom line of all this stuff is, you know, consumer business behavior now and next year and year after now it, yeah, it's gonna be like the go to slot. You know, I, I expect Google to start showing ads on their AI results. Right. But yeah, you know, because, but it's an evolution.

Speaker A: So the competitive one at that as well.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, and you know, for SEO companies, it might be like a season. Like, um, you know, I mean it was like you said, is their challenge now to continue providing value or. And learn something new. Right. And uh, let's see where it all goes. So as we're almost done here, I just wanted to like summarize here. Um, give me a quick uh, uh, summary for CEOs who might be listening at their companies and um, and tell them uh, what they need to do. What's the, what's their, uh, why they need to manage this now.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, listen, if you're thinking about, um, as a CEO, what's, you know, most important in terms of continuing. Sure. That my business is relevant in terms of how people are searching for me. I think you, there's a few things you need to think about. Right. Um, you know, you think about your. From. In respect to AI, you need to think about your semantic ranking. Right. Like, is your content relevant? It's just, it's not just about keywords now. You know, you need to think about optimizing for both Google and for the AI engines out there. Um, you need to think about how um, your backlink impact is modeled and what you're, how you're tying back to other organizations and the quality of that content and knowing how that affects you before you build something out. I Think taking into account different ways around behavioral science is important and consumer, consumer behavior is important. And then sort of understanding that behavioral impact analysis in terms of how you structure out what your site looks like, I mean these are the sort of things that I think are most um, important. These are the sort of things that will keep you uh, competitive and um, the sort of tools out there that can support um, these specific objectives are really going to put you in the best position to be successful.

Speaker B: Okay. M. It's definitely, uh, definitely evolving. So. And it will continue to do so. Right. So. And uh, the bottom line is find me if I'm going to do a search engine and you know, to find uh, a solution for myself from research. Um, if I'm not, you know, it's like anything. If I'm not found, no one knows about me. Right. And companies out there. So it's very important, you know, because uh, otherwise you get lost in the dust. What if that a hundred thousand dollar B2B client, um, use AI to find a company and you weren't there and they went with somebody else? How would you feel? Think about it.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's exactly. I mean you nailed it. You nailed it on the head there, Paul.

Speaker B: You know, so that's really the goal. But anyway, um, Zachary, uh, Knopka, right?

Speaker A: Um, yes sir.

Speaker B: Yes. Spell out your company name and they'll be on the promotion, but just spell it out anyway. Sure.

Speaker A: So I'm Zachary Knock. I'm executive Advisor over@behemix.com and that's B E H A M m I c s.com and we work with organizations, small medium enterprises, all the way up to your Fortune 500 companies. And there's a um, budget and a place for everyone. We definitely uh, think what we're doing is pretty exciting and we'd love to share that with, with anyone who may be interested.

Speaker B: Okay. In the meantime, um, thanks for joining today and hang, uh, on one second, Zachary, after I turn the recording off.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And then we'll uh. This is very appreciative. Something to keep abreast of with everything in this world. You know, a lot of changes and um, it's not just AI but how people find you. Think about that.

Speaker A: Yeah, I appreciate it, Paul. You're a great host today and really enjoyed the conversation.

Speaker B: Okay. All right, thank you. Next time. Hold on, Zach.

Speaker A: Bye Bye.