WTF Is Happening in B2B Go-To-Market Right Now

Hi everyone, welcome back to Tomal Decoded. Dan here with you today, joined by Josh in the studio. Good to have you here, Josh, with us as always. Always.

And in today's episode, we've kind of got a license to talk about quite a few things because we're going to be covering like what on earth is going on in GoToMarket right now. There are so many changes, so many, like, why is this happening? How on earth is this changing, like going on at the moment. We have this kind of like chaos list of things to run through to cover off this thing is changing significantly.

What does that mean? And what do we do about it? And yeah, it's it's a bit more of a loose episode, probably, compared to some of the others that are a bit more structured. But I think one that's really valuable because it's answering so many questions that people have right now.

This chaos list of things, Josh, just seems to be growing and growing at the moment. Yes, I mean, speaking of chaos, I think we should take a moment of silence. Uh for Don't for the English football club uh that uh suffered a brutal defeat last night. Yeah.

Uh I wore black uh to Simon. I was gonna wear my England top, but I I burnt it on the way in. So yeah, so let's pause. Okay.

Okay, we're good to go now. All right, let's jump in. Just a quick one before we get into the episode, because I've got an offer that I'm sure all of you will be interested in. AEO is something that every B2B marketing team is trying to figure out right now, and most just don't know where to start.

But at Blend, we're offering a full AEO analysis of your brand's AI visibility, and we'll walk you through exactly what we found and what to do about it. From full prompt analysis against your competitors to a citation analysis where we'll look at different content types and how you're being cited for those and mentioned in those, and what you can actually do to be mentioned and cited much more for your brand, and what content you should create going forwards and how you comprise that strategy, really.

We will drop a note in the uh description of this episode in the show notes, and you can go over there, request your free AEO audit, and we will deliver that to you. The first thing I want to talk about, which is on every single marketing leader's radar right now, which is the huge change in buyer behavior and where buyers discover information, how they find vendors, how they evaluate vendors. And, you know, for us, um, being totally transparent, we've lost 50, 60% of our website traffic year on year.

Crazy. And you know, that's a trend that pretty much everyone is seeing right now. Yep. You know, it's only a couple of years ago that you saw HubSpot, HubSpot's blog, come out uh where they'd lost, you know, 90% of their traffic or something.

It's absolutely crazy. And this trend just seems to be continuing. And but but at the same time, our volume of inbound opportunities has increased. See, this is the thing, right?

And pipeline has increased and revenue has increased. So the metrics that we once looked at for leading indicators of success no longer correlate together. Right. I would just remove any kind of traffic report off of any dashboard right now, even as a marketer, really, like traffic is potentially useful to like track to conversion rates throughout the site.

But if you're hoping to run the old play of creating content, it bringing traffic to your website and somebody actually converting there and then, like it just doesn't happen anymore. Yeah, people are just using AI search more and more now to find solutions and not clicking through to websites in order to do that. Like they will navigate to that brand in their own way, in their own time, probably not in that same session. Like the research will happen, I don't know, days, weeks before they actually end up converting on your site.

Could be. Yeah, I mean, we're you know, we're we're in a place where SEO in six months might not might not even be relevant. Yeah. It's decreasing in relevance.

Organic SEO, PPC, traditional PPC, you know, we're we're still seeing for the customers that we manage that for, we're still seeing good revenue coming from that, but it's decreased year over year by a good margin. Um and the and because of that, price price per P, you know, price per click has gone up. Yeah. Um, because all of your competitors are also getting less.

Yeah. And what's the what's the what's the panic mode of response? Well, we better increase our budget for that keyword. And so every there's an inflationary element to uh almost every every PPC area that I've seen.

And then and so um, but all of that is becoming, and and I think as Google and OpenAI and Microsoft and everybody starts to really get deep into advertising within AEO or within Eugenic Results, your your traditional PPC campaigns are going to become cannibalized. Yeah. And well, um, by the time this goes out, the episode uh where I look at our initial results of chat GPT ads will have gone out. And there are huge differences in like cost per clicks.

You know, like a cost per click on chat GPT ads is probably somewhere between like four and five dollars. Whereas on Google search that could be anything from like $30 to $100. But um there are huge differences in the world. I won't get into that.

I would just say Yeah, we can't do that episode again. You know, go and go and listen to that. The main thing really is like we we have to find new ways to reach our buyers with the um the content, the connection, uh, and build the connection with them like in ways we didn't before. One thing I I think about is like, what are the other streams of content, of engagement that you have going that probably like never influence website traffic anyway?

Think about like your YouTube channel. That's a fantastic way to reach buyers now, which also has a direct impact on AEO because Google, in particular, Gemini, is reading transcripts of videos to inform its results. So, like, how many like views do you get on on YouTube? Like, you're not you're probably not tracking that at the moment or even thinking about that.

But that's a substitute for traffic potentially, because it's still people engaging with your brand. Like that requires effort. Indeed. Um, you have done an amazing job over the last couple of years creating weekly podcasts that have real value for our target market.

Um there are very precious few organizations that have that had that level of commitment um and ability to continually escalate or execute what we've seen from that is you know, you you're right, you've started to build a uh friends of blend community that you know are uh our target market professionals who are eager to advance their own careers and and the success of their businesses that are now following us more closely, uh using the information they get from this podcast in their own careers, seeing success.

And then, you know, that has led to either immediate customer opportunities, but more more frequently longer-term customer opportunities. Uh and uh and so it's not uh it's very hard to measure the impact of what you invest, what we invest in this format, but it's provide it's creating authentic authentic relationships. It's the basis of opening the door to authentic relationships because until people feel like they uh in many cases, especially with leaders and executives, till they really feel like there's an authentic connection, they're not gonna talk to you.

Yeah. Right. The the old days of hiring, you know, if I need this many, the like the old waterfall is just fundamentally broken now. Right.

We used to be, okay, I need 5,000 leads. That'll, you know, the that will get me into a thousand conversations, which will turn to 200 opportunities, and I'll close a quarter of those, and so I get 40 deals. And I can just, you know, follow that, and then I can measure each conversion step. And and there are so many people that are still trying to do that exact same playbook.

But the the problem is up at the top, that doesn't exist anymore. Yeah, right. You're you're you've got people, you know, COVID accelerated this dramatically, but we were already going in the direction of people losing interest in emails and that weren't picking up their phone and weren't in the office. And now that you know, you can't, if your strategy is I'm gonna have an SDR team calling people, I mean, that's that is the most expensive, inefficient way of of of building a business that exists now.

The uh the opportunity for those companies is is wait a minute, you know, when recognize what your buyers actually value. Make sure you're creating the content that is real and hard to produce, but valuable so that you're creating community, uh, and then leverage that community into opportunities and into those conversations. But what it means is your close rates have to be much better. So how do you drive, yeah, it's not enough to just look at a marketer and say, hey, marketer, you need to get me this much pipeline.

We need to look at the entire lead lead or touch to close process and understand exactly what's um what's falling out, where are things falling out at each stage? And is it because we're you know we're not executing well, our competitors are beating us to the punch, we don't have good product market fit, we focused on an on a on a niche that we shouldn't have, where we're trying to claim ownership for something that's not legitimate, not authentic. Um it's it really forces a go-to-market leadership team to shine a really bright light and be excruciatingly honest about what their product does, where they have success, where they can have success.

You I just I don't think you can lie to the market anymore. It's and lies maybe not the right word, but I I don't think I don't think you can expect to pull the wool over a buyer's eyes as much as maybe some B2B companies used to in the past. Yeah. You touched on um a point there around authenticity, building trust with buyers.

And when we think about how we do that from a marketing perspective, I feel like before there was kind of this exception, maybe, that marketing could just build attention, like drive um, you know, reach and engagement, but then hand over to sales to actually build trust. But I think marketing's job has never been more important um in a business to build trust now as well. Like when I think about different content types as well for that to like give something practical. I think of it in this way long form content, like a podcast, like even you know, anything like a 20-minute YouTube video or even a pulse article on LinkedIn, a newsletter with real value, that's there to build trust.

Your short form content, the clips that you post, the um, you know, mainly that actually, like short form video is there more for attention. Like that stuff doesn't necessarily build the trust of somebody sharing that hour-long session with you on their commute, on their drive, or just watching you, um, even on their TV at home. That builds a level of trust that like short form content just can't do. So I would encourage people to think about the different types of content you're creating and the purpose behind those and what that like emotional connection would feel like for the buyer.

How do they do that? I suppose long-form content is the way to start for almost all businesses, and video is the primary medium to create that in. Video is like one of those things and those barriers now that I just like when I have chats with marketers, I'm just like, you gotta get past it. I don't I don't care how, you just you have to get past it because the way that we earn attention before, the way that buyers would um find informational content for our brand, yeah, it could have been a written blog, it could have been information on our website, but that's gone.

Like AI has consumed pretty much all of the informational content space. Like nobody needs to go to your website anymore to find out what event marketing software is. They will just ask AI what that is, but you still have an opportunity to create informational content in mediums that are less affected by AI. That medium is video, like AI will always struggle to replace authentic video because like it comes back to like DNA biology of people.

Like we are humans, we crave human connection, like we crave that emotional intelligence that we get from conversing with somebody else. And like video is just yeah, that that one medium that creates everything else off the back of it that I think all businesses have to create now. So um does that have any bearing on or is that statement impacted by the persona and the uh personality profiles of the potential buyers? So let me I'll give you a couple of examples.

Would you say that it still holds true if your uh uh economic buyer as you evaluate your personas is a uh 35-year-old mid-professional uh tech forward uh individual in San Francisco versus a 53-year-old white guy uh in uh uh North Georgia uh that is a uh historical sales guy. Does it do does either firmographic or demographic information do you think it has a material impact on the channel that you on on whether video is extremely valuable to the organization? Is there a is there a a generational thing?

You and I are in different generations, that's why I asked. There's probably like a spectrum of how important it is. I I still think it's important, like nonetheless. You might you might put extreme importance of it if your persona is hanging out in those channels.

This this comes back to like audience insight, right? And actually understanding your bar in the first place. Where do they hang out? What content do they consume?

But every single channel we have now prioritizes video. Like um, LinkedIn has a video tab now at the bottom. It's really annoying because everyone's like, oh, that used to be like post or something, and now it's video. It even has like I literally just scrolled through there, and here we go.

It's like the in in feed video section to encourage people to then get on shorts. So disappointed I'm not on there. You will be. But like this is how every channel is adopting this medium, and I just think, well, if your buyer even isn't there yet, get ahead of the game.

Yeah. Like, yeah, yeah. This is the way that it's going. And no, I agree with you.

And it's definitely directionally accurate. Yeah. And you know, like YouTube itself has all the benefits of adding to AEO. So what do you say to the CEO or the CRO or the CFO, maybe that's the best one, who's looking at the marketing budget and saying, wait, you're gonna spend this much money on creating authentic video content and it's gonna get us what?

Next quarter? Quarter after? What's that turn into? How do you how do you answer that question for them?

I mean, we can't look at it in the way that we used to with attribution. It it's just not easy to track it like a Google ad. You're never gonna get that level of attribution. Do you think that that stops the large majority of organizations from stepping out into that?

Absolutely. And it has to be a really honest conversation with the CFO, like to say we we can't measure this in the way we used to, but we can measure trends. Like we can actually look at the the reports that are a couple levels up from our marketing dashboard. Like CFO, you you don't even actually need to know, you know, like the particular details about where we're investing our budget and the channels we're investing in.

But what I will be able to show you is when we started investing in this in three, six, nine, twelve months after that, here's the trend of our inbound pipeline off the back of that. That's information that I can give you. I'll go one step further. Um I'll I would put money on a bet with any CFO or any CRO that uh while yes, those metrics change, the most important metric uh in my opinion, um is pipeline close rate.

And the the the just from I don't have empirical data, I have our exp experiential data. Um but our close rate's gone through the roof since we've since all of these changes have happened. Now, some of that is people are finding us on IEO answers uh and are then coming to us, and so our our the the leads we're getting in through the website are better because those people are in deeper buying cycles and they already know something about us that has been validated by a credible third party in in in Claude or Gemini, right?

Um uh some of them have have you know followed us here and and so when they do reach out that with a problem that they want to solve, they've already they're not probably not going to seven different companies to try to do an RFP. They're they really believe that we're the right mix of folks to help. Um thank you. And uh uh and and then but it but what it tells me is as more of a uh growth engineering type of idea.

If we if we try to stick to the ratios that we were comfortable with in terms of close rates and um conversion points, and we're making a mistake because we're not thinking about um We're not thinking about what what the new model should be, what that new waterfall should look like. And maybe we don't have as much information about the timing of exactly when things are going to come into the waterfall. And maybe we maybe there's different ways to help that. But as it comes in, every single conversation becomes way more important.

Yeah. And and as a result, we need to be holding ourselves to higher expectations of what we do with every single conversation. Do you think it's fair to say that's also the same with customers? Every single customer.

Yeah, you beat me to it. Uh that that is that is the most valuable, the most trusted conversation that we have. So unless you are a one-and-done company, that is, you have one product to sell to each customer, and once they buy it, you're done. And you just hope to hold on to them as long as they they can, or you know, uh assuming you have other products and you have want to have a long-term relationship with with the customer, the person who's bought is like is so valuable.

And and so that that is definitely something we're seeing um as we're working with our customers on their entire, like on their revenue lifecycle and on how to plan for what comes out of where in the revenue lifecycle, new logo versus growth of existing, maximizing NRR, GRR. Um, that there's there are new um there's an increased importance in the customer half of the journey and the after they become a customer. Um and and but there's because of the tools, because of the resources we we now have, and what we can do in that segment, both in the in the uh middle of the customer conversation, whether it's positive or negative, um, but um when we're when our customer success teams are talking to people, uh are we harnessing the and I say talking, but it could be live talking, it could be uh Slack, it could be whatever channel, right?

But are we grabbing all of that and in real time creating outcomes? Right? Either it's a uh a oh, they expressed a problem that we can detect with AI that our our we have a product over here that solves that problem. Maybe our customer success person doesn't didn't recognize that.

Um, it's that would be pretty common. Well, what about the flip side of that though? Like customers saying how valuable is. Hold on.

I gotta yeah, I know you want to get that. I'm excited, Josh. I know, but we gotta we gotta finish the play on the first. It's not enough to just detect that there might be an opportunity.

We now have to create a lead for the salesperson who owns that account in the CRM to say in a task that says, okay, there's an opportunity here for this product. Here's the quote of the problem that that they're experiencing in their business, here's the context that we came out of the call. You need to follow up with them today, right? It's it's not enough to say when you get time.

Think of the customer experience. If the customer is like just on a call with your customer success team, they had a question, but you know, they've got a good relationship, they're talking and they express that there's a uh problem in their business that is unrelated to the product that they've already bought, but they're just, you know, it's consuming their time or they got to go to a meeting to talk about it or whatever. Like those kinds of things come up all the time. Um your systems now grab that and realize, hey, we've got a product that solves that.

Now I get a hold of uh the rep who's responsible for customer growth, who might be someone different than the customer success person who took the call, and uh and create an immediate opportunity and task to say, engage here. And you and you, as the customer get a phone call 30 minutes later or a text, you know, 30 minutes later that says, Hey, by the way, that problem, you're in that meeting. That problem, I can solve it for you with this. This product that we already, you know, that is available to you and it's an easy upgrade.

They're in that meeting, they're talking about that problem, and boom, you've you've proven to be the partner that actually listens and helps. That kind of customer experience was never possible before, and is now extremely possible if we just put the right systems in place. Um, and so that's the kind of thing now. Yes, to then take a customer advocate and layer them into your marketing in the right way so that you know, customers, your prospects who are either your existing customers who you want to grow into other areas, can see, oh, these are the people that are having success in those areas already, or your new logos where you're trying to use social proof like you always have, that advocacy opportunity is massive, right?

But that capturing that and then plugging that back into capturing that customer advocacy, even if it's just a comment made in we do that, right? We when when anybody whenever anybody says, Oh, I love this, yeah, it pops right up in Slack for you that says, Oh, I love this, great. Let's grab that quote and engage customers, see if we they wouldn't mind us uh using that in something that we that you're doing. It's awesome.

Like that kind of thing is great. Uh and on the flip side, I just got off the phone with a friend who's you know got uh leaky bucket syndrome. They've got some challenges in their customer retention, but they're not doing any of this stuff on the customer retention side either. So imagine the customer that expresses a concern, they get a call from the you know, from the VP of customer success, or in this case, maybe one of one of the founders that says, hey, just saw that you had, you know, you expressed some concerns here.

We're serious about your business, we're serious about our relationship, we're gonna fix that for you. Yeah, we're gonna figure this out together. We just need you, you know, need you to hold our hand as we go through it and help us understand what a I mean, what a great experience that would be. Absolutely, yeah.

Again, wasn't possible before because you had you were depending upon a customer success person that is usually a people pleaser and usually not gonna be real excited about turning around to the founder of the company to say, hey, I've got a problem over here. Um, they think they need to solve that themselves and they get stuck. Um, so it's there's just being able to solve NRR, net revenue retention, gross revenue retention opportunities, and accelerate those numbers, actually make those a bigger part of your revenue plan is now critical because of the conversations you're already having.

Yeah, yeah. It's like the the focus, the obsession with net new logos is one of these chaos points that that has to be solved with looking at the broader revenue lifecycle, every everything that impacts revenue in the business. And how do we use marketing sales and customer success together in order to solve those things? And that's you know, what a great example of how to do that with a customer.

You know, yeah, we can send signals to sales about customers and when they want to get involved. We can send signals back to marketing about how we want to update messaging based on a customer being like super thrilled with this one particular thing that product may have overlooked as being like a really, really important thing to solve for a business. But the customers are loving this new thing that might be tiny. And you know, we can then weave that back into a new campaign, new messaging.

Sales can use it more when they're talking to prospects. Like, yeah, I mean, this connected system of things that's ultimately underpinned by unstructured data now becoming structured, now becoming visible to everybody, is the change that's happening. So the biggest problem I see to preventing any of this from most from organizations that are, you know, a couple hundred people and larger, and and you know, into the thousands of people are parochial views of system ownership. And sales has their system and marketing has their system, and customer success may even have their own system.

How often it's shocking. Like marketing will have bought HubSpot, sales will have bought Salesforce, customer success will have bought something else entirely to manage their sometimes. It's their phone system from back in the day that has their customer tickets, right? And or it's or they're using Jira or something to do to do ticket management.

And they don't, they none of them trust each other's data. None of them are willing to go through the effort of figuring out the connective points. Yeah. The the opportunity people have to say, you know what, this is this is not three lifecycle or three processes.

This is one process that needs to be governed by one thing. Like if I was the CEO of those organizations, that would be my and I was concerned about revenue at all, that would be my number one thing. You have I don't care. I don't care what the sales force prefers because salespeople don't like CRMs, and they shouldn't, they shouldn't be using them anyway, right?

They we should be creating the ability to update the CRM based on what's happening in the salesperson's daily life in conversations and emails and whatnot, without them having to go in and flip switches and say, Oh, I moved this opportunity over. No, the system should do that, yeah. That's all entirely possible. But the but from a CEO standpoint, not allowing those silos to exist prevents you from having any idea what's really happening in your business in your in the top line of your business.

Yeah. And that to me is is really like that should be job one. Yeah. And then if you do that, and you, you know, there's multiple platforms to do that with.

We would say that for the mid-market, anything under a billion dollars, and probably and probably some companies, maybe probably under under 5 billion, um, more often than not, HubSpot's going to be a better platform to do all of that in than any other, any of the other individual platforms. Yeah, there are some specialty functions that are better in some places versus others, but in terms of total cost of ownership, flexibility of of um uh that what you can do in it, and the um and the automations that that the company, like the the amount of energy a uh HubSpot's putting into their AI agents and their prospecting agent, and their different elements of that they you know use based on it's Breeze uh uh product or their family of Breeze products.

Um they seem to be the company that's most to me most committed to that mid-mar mid-market, small and small and medium enterprise segment that can legitimately stitch those all together. If we do that, it's phenomenally easy then to start um really cooking the gas, if you will, in terms of making sure every single individual conversation is max uh we maximize the value of. So here's a question for you. Um we hosted an event a a few weeks back, and I was chatting to one of the CMOs there about this exact issue.

They use HubSpot, sales team use Salesforce. The two aren't connected. So they're spending, I don't know, half a million a year on Google Ads and a flying blind, basically. The things they can optimize for are like click-through rate conversions, but they don't know if those conversions are good, they don't know if they're bad, they don't know what happens with them.

And they understand this is an issue, like the CMO gets this is an issue, but like what can they do? What do they need to bring to the CEO in order to show them that this is an issue? Like, what are the data points, what are the things that make it a no-brainer to sort this out? I mean, I would go to the so first of all, I'd go to the CFO and say, Mr.

and Miss CFO, I'm spending $12 million a year in marketing, and I can't tell you whether it's impacting revenue. This is a problem, and I know it. Yeah, but I need your support in making it a top three thing for the CEO. I need you to see why this is the case, and you know, you're you're heading like let me step back.

The first conversation that the CMO should have is with the head of sales. Let's call it the CRO. They're A, your customer, B, your peer, or and and you should be playing from the same, singing from the same song sheet, right? So um don't go to the CFO without first talking to the CRO.

Have that hard conversation first. Try to get some traction, but then you know, if the CRO is like, that's too much work, or we don't have a budget for that, or I've you know, I need to be, you know, my team likes Salesforce, whatever. Like there's all kinds of responses you might get. Um, we have too much investment in this.

That's what I hear most often. We have so much investment in this, right? Or we just put this in, or we just so what? It's old money after good, right?

Like it's bad money after bad money after good. I don't know, whatever. Um what you're saying is I've already invested this amount of money, and so I'm gonna stick with something that doesn't work and is is preventing maybe the most important thing in the business, which is top line gener revenue generation. Right.

Without without revenue generation, there is nothing more. Like the business can't do anything else, they can't pay people, they can't right. So um sometimes people don't like to hear me say that, but RevGen is other other than maybe you know, the CFO could argue access to capital, okay, fine. But um, but from uh running the business opex and yeah, you know, just PL standpoint, RevGen is always number one.

If you can't if you don't have control over that, you don't know what's going on, and you're just guessing as a CFO, I should be scared, furious, concerned, curious. I I should not be happy. Yeah, I should not be comfortable in my projections that you know, like how how in the world if if you had that conversation with the CFO, with the CFO, then look at the CRO and say, How do you how do you know you're gonna generate this much revenue? What is your projections based on?

How are you doing that? And you know, that gets awkward. So it really that's why you those people need to be on the same page. But uh ideally you're trying to create that triangle of let's shine a bright light on what's what's the truth.

Let's get the you know, CRO, CMO, CFO in the same place, understanding the problem, and then let's go to the CEO and the board and say we we this is too important not to fix. Yeah. And we need to fix it one way. Now the there's risk that the C that the answer will come down as okay, CMO, get on the same platform as the as the CRO.

You've got to be willing to like you can't you have to go into that authentically also, right? You have to be able to have a okay, well, let's let's look at the platforms under consideration, let's do a thorough analysis. Um let but it can't be political, it's gotta be, you know, we've got to really evaluate it and evaluate. And that's where you can leverage the CFO, because you can say, listen, we're gonna we need to focus on TCO, you know, not just sticker price, but then how many admins does it take to run it?

How many, you know, how much customization are we gonna have to do? How much, right? All that stuff. How easy is it to integrate with other things?

All right. I think we've running out of time a little bit on this one, and we should probably make this actually a few parts. Um, because we've just scratched the surface with what on earth is happening in in GoToMarket right now. Um, literally just a few things off of the list.

W-o-e is happening. Yeah, we can go with that actually. The title's gonna be WTF, I think, but you know, I'm polite. Um so yeah, we'll do a few parts, I think, because there is just so much to talk about here.

But to to round us off, what are your your core takeaways from this? Okay, I'll give you my my two, you give me your one or two. Uh I'm just I'm not trying to I didn't tell I didn't preface or tell you that I was gonna make use uh and you know give give the summary. Okay.

Uh my two uh are most important. We've got to have a system that is connected. And if and even if it's three systems that we then have to put work, you know, put integrations in between to make to make it work, fine, let's figure that out. There's ways to do that too.

It doesn't you don't have to go all in on a single platform, but it it's easier, better uh long term. Um, but that's number one. We've got to have connected systems and data that are looking at data the same way. Um number two is the value of every single conversation that is an authentic conversation, uh relationship, it bec is order of magnitude more important today than it was five years ago.

You could get more five years ago pretty easily. Um now every single conversation, and so you have to be really clear on who you want to converse with, exactly who you know what who your ICP is at a very detailed level, what their persona is at a very detailed level, and what information is going to resonate authentically to them. And you've got to be like you gotta just really push yourself to dig deep there. Yeah.

And then when you create those, you should be able to then see a much higher conversion rate um into valuable, you know, into business value over time. I think for me, um, probably goes back to what we we started this conversation about, which is we have to figure out the new ways to get discovered. Like we can't keep running the same playbook that even worked 12 months ago. Look at your own data and like see the fall off in traffic that I believe is probably inevitable for most businesses.

If it hasn't happened now, it's coming. Um, so the new channels that are gonna get you discovered, like bring you into the conversations, earn trust from buyers, they are essential now. We can't keep running the same playbook. And I think the second point is that marketing has to look beyond net new logo acquisition in terms of where it can impact the business.

And like we have to be thinking as a collective revenue engine in terms of where we can generate the most efficient revenue for the business. And marketing can have an impact on all of that, like not just the classic way of thinking how do we generate leads for sales, but how do we partner with customer success in order to like identify expansion opportunities, reach the broader buying committee, like impact all of that, engage them. You know, there is so, so much opportunity that marketing has beyond communications to you know a new market.

And um, most teams are just scratching the surface with that. So maybe we get into that in episode two of this mini-series. Let's do it. Okay.

All right, nice one, Josh. That was a really fun episode. Um, looking forward to the other couple of parts. Me too.

Uh amazing. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Demand Encoded, and we'll catch you next time. Bye everyone.