Decoding AQ with Ross Thornley Feat. Tina Gupta - Transformation

Speaker A: M hi and welcome to decodingaq. Helping you to learn the tools, mindsets and actions to thrive in an ever changing world.

Speaker B: Welcome to the next episode of Decoding aq. Third for today and again it is part of our series Live from Transform here in Vegas. With me this time I have Tina Gupta who's coming from Brooklyn. She is the SVP head of Talent Management. Welcome to the show.

Speaker C: Thank you for having me.

Speaker B: So it's going to be a bit weird. Are we looking there? We doing. We'll get into the flow of it and the conversation. So Tina, uh, as I said, is the Senior VP and head of Talent Management at uh, New York Life Insurance Company, uh, where she's leading enterprise wide talent transformation. So deep expertise in performance management, talent acquisition and employee experience. Proven track record of guiding organizations through complex change and transformation. So we're going to learn a bit more about that what perhaps took her, uh, there 13 years ago to Brooklyn from London. Ah. So the first thing I want to ask is, have you been to Transformer before?

Speaker C: No, this is my first time.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's a great, great experience. And um, I'm speaking on a panel tomorrow.

Speaker B: Okay, what's the panel about?

Speaker C: Tell me more. It's really about the skills transformation that companies are on, um, and how we're really, companies are tackling them quite differently and some of the wins and some of the losses and lessons learned. So it's a very cool panel I'm on with some very smart people. Um, and we just had a prep session and laughs for about an hour. So we're hoping that we could be.

Speaker B: That's the best way in the moment.

Speaker C: But yeah, it's about you. It's great chemistry. Hm.

Speaker B: Have you been to some, uh, sessions already?

Speaker C: Yeah, I've popped into a couple of sessions.

Speaker B: What's been a standout, Um, I would

Speaker C: one, uh, that I thought was really interesting was one on AI and adoption because that's actually something that is right today literally is on a um, meeting this morning, really talking about how we're furthering our efforts on AI adoption. Just learning a couple of tips and tricks.

Speaker B: What have you found? Have been some of the accelerators and detractors to adoption in your area.

Speaker C: It's been interesting because, um, I think everyone jumped into tools first. They're like, let's buy the tools. And we were like, great invested in, in all these tools and two or three use cases on the go and there's some really early wins and it's exciting and it's kind of a Part of the process. Um, but I think the realization that most companies are starting to come to and most of my peers and thought leaders I've been talking to in the last couple of months is really about the mindset shift and it's how do we actually rethink the way we get work done and how do we unlearn some of the behaviors that we have? Um, so I'm actually upskilling myself right now and it's probably the first time in my career in a long time where I don't really know what I'm doing and I'm having to really learn. Um, what is AI, how does it impact work, what does it mean for our talent, how is it going to inform the people that we hire and um, maybe the skills that we need. So it's a very um, dramatic and feels like a very fast paced time. So you're learning while you're doing. Um, but I think that's really where

Speaker B: it's quite revealing, isn't it? That duality of I'm excited but I'm also humble and vulnerable about not having the answers, not knowing what it is and be in that experimentation mode. Especially when historically uh, a particular level has assumed knowledge or assumed answers.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: And that's a different mindset, different transition, right?

Speaker C: It is. And I really think that's you've hit the nail on the head because everyone's a little bit vulnerable, including our tech partners and our, even the people who are making content, I think they're sometimes surprised they, by everything or learning as they go. Um, so it's been a really interesting. And it's a joint learning time. It's almost like we're all learning it together. It's not just hr, not just tech. We're all like a group of, you know, many people, human beings figuring it out, human beings figuring out we're actually coming together in the way that I see work getting done in the future which is let's just bring our smartest minds together and solve this problem. Because no one really knows the answer today. Yeah, um, it's been really cool.

Speaker B: So give us some context in terms of um, the firm, uh, New York Life Insurance. What's its kind of structure, size are we dealing with and sort of ah, stage should we say of fluency of the adoption of where are you do, where are you applying it? You said you've got some early wins with some tools. Give us some idea of what's going on in the organization.

Speaker C: Yeah. So, um, the really exciting part is Craig DeSanto our CEO has laid out a really strong vision for our strategy and adoption. He has really said, um, you know, no uncertain terms, that we really want to become a company that is a leader and really fluent when it comes to our adoption of AI, data and technology as a company, which is, you know, admittedly far from where we are today.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: So, um, the good news is we've got the mandate. I think the.

Speaker B: Do you know where that's coming from? Is it coming from a, ah, productivity, efficiency? Is it coming from a fear state of everyone's doing it, we need to do it? Is it coming from a state of love, this will help us serve or maybe a combination. Do you know what's driving that bold vision?

Speaker C: I think it's actually, it's just not a negotiable, it's a non negotiable really are, ah, I think he's a really great um, learner himself. He actually spends a lot of time with his peers, with thought leaders, with external environment and, and I think in general like we're seeing the pace by which AI is becoming better and better and more infiltrated into the way that work gets done and some of the benefits of doing so. And so he's talked about this for a few years and again, this isn't just about the CEO. I think as a company where there's a recognition, um, that you know, sometimes you just need to leapfrog, don't even bother fixing A, B and C, let's go straight to D. Like it's just, it's too bad to get the other things, it's going to take us too long. So I think it's a way of bringing pace, efficiency and innovation to life. And I think that there's just a recognition that I don't know exactly what it is, but I just know it's the outcome. Yeah.

Speaker B: And that's helpful if you have that clarity and mandate to then, okay, who and how. Uh, and you know, I remember a few years back somebody I follow talking about, you know, you can't necessarily predict the future, you can just prepare for it. But they were talking about, well, there'll be two types of companies that exist in 2030. There'll be those that adopted AI throughout their organization and those that don't exist. And it's that stark reality, um, of driving and you can come from that sense of fear or from a playful experimentation of what could this unlock and recognizing the vulnerability, the mindset, all of those things. So from that mandate, what has then happened within your division and your area.

Speaker C: So, um, I am in a unique spot because I lead our hr, uh, talent management work, including change management and learning. So that's like kind of at the eye of the storm. And as kind of my point earlier, we're seeing that's really where. How do we change mindsets and behaviors and really, like, work in a very different way. So we've been pulling together a team of, uh. And so that's kind of like us, how we serve the organization. Yeah. At the same time, we're also figuring out what does this mean for how we get our work done and.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: Your own team and our own HR practice, our own kind of. And support the organization with their changes and so on. So, um, I'm kind of like in all the eyes of all the storms, which is a really cool place to be and also a little bit overwhelming. Um, but I am like, spending a lot of time learning myself and like, trying to figure out, okay, what does this actually mean for the workforce? I'm doing a lot of external research. Um, so what we've been doing in HR is a little bit of experimentation. We've got some. You know, again, Joanne Rogers, our chro, is very, very passionate about this and really wants us to get our.

Speaker B: Certainly helps, doesn't it?

Speaker C: It really helps. Um, we're also going through a continuous improvement transformation. So we're going through. Different departments are going through continuous improvement as practice. And what we're really thinking about is, as we do that, this is a great opportunity for us to, to be able to relook at our processes and practices with AI at the core of it. Right. So not just because continuous improvement forces you to take a look at.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. To look at. Should we be doing that? Uh, how might we do it differently? Like you said, can we leapfrog part of the SOPs that now there's a new way of that playbook or.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: That provides no value to us or the marketplace anymore. We now need to think this way.

Speaker C: And it's really helpful because it's forcing us. It's going to force our hands in a lot of the departments to have to rethink the, um, work that gets done and how it gets done. And we see this as being a great opportunity to infiltrate AI. That's just one of many ideas, but I think the other big one is really how we're thinking about the adoption element. Huh? How are we getting folks not just to have tools, know that they're there, but try and experiment, innovate, and do something for the first Time and learn how to um, create an agent. And all those things that are so far from people's today work, um, that it's a big change management effort. It's a massive again. I personally think if we can get the mindset shift right, the rest will follow. I feel the rest will come.

Speaker B: I think one of the challenges we've noticed is whilst there's often some form of sponsor intent. Okay. This is the desired new state that we can best see that we can think about. Um, but there's then a big difference of, as you mentioned, adoption, but also those behaviors required for the environment. That's there. You mentioned unlearning. It's one of our sub dimensions. Right. Of how do you figure out what's no longer serving me? And that's easy. When it's obvious I stopped working, I tried to turn it on. What's wrong with the power? Need to check the socket. When it works occasionally. Uh, and you get a few of those little sugar high of oh yeah, it still works when I do a cold sales call or it still works when I do this. How do you then. And we've got influence over each other because, uh, you give me something.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: I'm good at that thing.

Speaker C: I'm known for it.

Speaker B: I'm known for it. Uh, I've built success. I get an applause. Well done. Well done. Um, to chip away at that can be a sense of loss for people.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: And come to the mindset. So, ah, that real challenge of oh, if you're, you know, choosing it versus it's chosen you.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Uh, you might behave very differently. So at what stage are you seeing that in the organization? You've seen pockets of champions. Are you putting, uh, programs in place in terms of we do regular, you know, learning sprints on how to build an agent, how to do this. What is the sort of things that have worked well, what's blown up in your face, what hasn't worked? Give us a flavor of some of those.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think we're doing a little bit of. Of all those things you described. Um, but I think there's been a recognition, particularly in the last six months or so that um, it's working to an extent and that there's also a lot of organic and bottom m up stuff going on, which is great. So we're seeing like these people who are doing things. You're like, you're doing what over there? And that's awesome. We should. Yes, totally. Or like, hey, you, you fix that. How? And you're so we're seeing like a lot of organic experimentation. And so is it, uh, our nature as HR professionals and learning people is to over architect this. We need a strategy, we need a, you know, we're going to have a roadmap. There's got to be like learning sessions. But really I think what we're recognizing is this is a combination of many elements. That's one element for sure. You need. You've got to give people the skills and access to the tools. But, um, there is like some natural. And this speaks a little bit to the work you do with adaptability, like ability to uh, the influencers who naturally emerge because they're playing with this stuff anyway and they're doing the work and they're coming to us and we're seeing like different departments say, I'm not waiting, I'm going to go and tackle this. I'm going to, you know, do something really cool and I'm going to just, you know, make, make, uh, uh, run ahead in this use case. Yeah, totally what it might be or really rethink the way that we get this part of our process done. So we're seeing like this natural organic adoption in pockets. So what we're trying to do now as a company is actually pull it all together a little bit more coordinated because we're like, we should be learning from you. Okay. Ah, you did that then similar problem exists over here. We deploy how m. Might we just celebrate that?

Speaker B: Help it from. Make it up, make it real, make it reoccur of those things that are going on. And often if you have the clarity of mandate and you have the environment right, you don't need the how. They figure the how out.

Speaker C: I completely agree with that. And I think that's we really different to how NeoFlight and many of these big Fortune 100 companies, they operate. Which is. But your point. I've got a job and this is my job. Now I have to completely rethink. I don't understand how to do that. So we're really, um, we're focusing on, yes, the learning element and sprints and cool content and all those. Um, but we're also looking at our leadership and saying there is a massive role for you to play here and you need to actually be the first adopters in many ways and the pushy adopters too. Because if you get it and then you understand how it can influence the work that gets done in your team, that then you're mandating it and really requiring it and pushing it down and really um, getting people excited by Them seeing what you're doing. It's just, it's super important to get that team alert. So we're spending more time with that group now and saying, all right, how do we talk about this more regularly and upskill, uh, our leaders and make them feel that they have the confidence to, to ask their teams to do this?

Speaker B: And it also comes down to sometimes the structure of. For what am I getting an applause? An applause. That is my check at the end of the month, my extra responsibility, my promotion, my, uh, trusted, uh, relationship, whatever that applause is. Is it for the end result? Because traditionally that's what it's been. Right. The end result, hitting the target. Whereas if we're so much more ambiguous about that, are we going, you know, further upstream to. No, it's the number of experiments or the behaviors. And can we truly divorce the applause from the traditional end result?

Speaker C: It's such, ah, an.

Speaker B: I think that's a real challenge.

Speaker C: It's a real challenge. It's a very important question. It's not how organizations are built today even just the way we recognize the

Speaker B: award all the time. Right. Uh, we need a bit of both. But recognizing the phase that we're in of this.

Speaker C: And that also means celebrating failure.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: Which is very hard for many people to do. To your point. I've always been good at everything I do. I know how to do this stuff really well. And now I'm going to try something that's not going to work and I'm going to look like, you know, that's not a good look for me. But it's like, no, no, we need that to happen because you're not going to get to the, to the success without the failure. So it is a really different, um, way of thinking the whole ecosystem around it.

Speaker B: I think it's also when I talk to people about celebrating failure.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I say, what does celebrating mean?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Right. And when we celebrate success, we, we have a bias to what that means.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Celebrate success. It might mean an applause recognition might mean an extra little bonus. There's a bit of money at the end. It might mean, you know, uh, all of these things of celebrating. If we transpose that to celebrate failure. Oh, it's no way we just share the communication that we've had rather than. No, you got a bonus.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Oh, you got your cake, you got your promotion, you've got those things. We use the same word, but actually the behavior is super different.

Speaker C: So interesting.

Speaker B: Oh, we celebrate. Yeah, of course. I celebrate failure. We send an email round.

Speaker C: We talk about it on stage.

Speaker B: And it's like, huh, that doesn't add up to what celebrating success looked like success. So there's a disparity between what are we really, uh, fostering acceptability, the behaviors we want. Um, and so I find that just an interesting.

Speaker C: It's very interesting. And it's funny because we were doing some research on companies that fail well, really understand. And they have. Some companies do go to the extremes of having, um, a goal on failure, and they have reward systems which are really about failure, and they have a recognition that's all about failing.

Speaker B: You saved us a future of six months trying to get this working. Hundreds of thousands of pounds. Thank you. You know, you cut it early.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: What's the two things we need to know that will indicate this is a failure rather than let's keep it alive.

Speaker C: Right. Completely agree with you. And, um, it is fascinating how people talk about failure as a celebration, to your point of celebration and reward. And I do think that's another rewiring that we would have to, like, become like, okay, and learn and learn what celebrate means. And I've learned, like, what winning. What does winning look like? Winning might look like failing, actually. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. And then it comes down to culture as well. Upbringing. Yeah. We compete in that. You know, it's okay to come second, okay to come third, or no, you win.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: You know, the podium is 1, 2, 3. No, you took part. Well done. Different societal, how that translates into work.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Is it. I impacted that person's life.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: You know, ultimately, what are we doing to serve in the marketplace that we de risking? Are we helping and supporting somebody when their life has fallen over?

Speaker C: Right, Exactly.

Speaker B: Um, fundamentally, that's what it is. Do we make it at that point of high emotion, high pressure, high stress, that it was simpler, easier, better for their love? Is that what success is?

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Um, and connecting that, learning to those things often makes it easier when it's a little foggy.

Speaker C: Right. I agree. It's a really fascinating moment for hr, actually, because we are the ones who put in place the reward systems, the recognition systems, how we talk about employee engagement, employee experience, all those elements. Uh, it's in our hands. Um, I was talking to some of my, uh, colleagues, one of my peers who are going to be on the panel with me tomorrow, and we were talking about one of the biggest problems HR have is that we are so small, slow to move with things, and this whole AI movement with the pace that's behind it, is forcing us to move quickly. Yeah. And we were talking about, like, the only other. Like, we can move quickly when we have to. Like in the pandemic.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Remote work used to be a dream. Like, oh, that's never going to happen. It's so hard. How can we do it overnight? Everyone's remote working. Like, you know, figure it out. We had to figure it out.

Speaker B: What are the new policies? How do we deal with Internet? How do we deal with data exposure? How do we deal with all the

Speaker C: things that we worry about for 10 years and no white papers on, you've got to do it, you've got to do it. And so I do think some kind of a, uh, push of a mandate, like something like. And I feel like AI is that crisis. I don't want to use the word crisis, because it really isn't. It compliments the opportunity. It's the opportunity for growth. Exactly. Like, all right, I'm going to actually force you to change that. I'm going to make it happen and make it happen quickly because this isn't a wait and see moment for us. This is actually happening right now. Um, and I don't even think the companies who are building the tools realize how quickly it's advancing.

Speaker B: Uh, and one of the challenges is to come back to your earlier point of we're human beings and we have this desire to be valued, to be loved, connected with others. And when some of those things are derailed, we can be a shadow version of ourselves.

Speaker C: Ah.

Speaker B: We can be abrupt, we can be reactive, we can have finger wagging, loud voices, doors slamming, or we can disassociate, go into dark rooms, you know, and the worst. Right. And I think one of the very real challenges is, yes, with all this excitement of change, of mindset, there's a responsibility, too, an ethical responsibility that, um, as people transition from who am I?

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: How do I show up to the new version of what I need to become? And I haven't even figured that out yet.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And, uh, so where does then counseling come in? So it's all, you know, sprints, learning all of those coaching and counseling through the human trauma of the loss of how I provided value.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Are you thinking about that at all? Um, or just let's go through it and it will show up.

Speaker C: I am now, actually, because, you know, I think it's. It's in a. It's inherent in some of the work we've been talking about from a change management perspective. Um, like, it really is stuff that we have to be caring for. Um, because it sits, I think, squarely in change Management. It really is about that. I haven't really proactively spent a lot of time thinking, but I actually think you're right. It's happening quicker than we know and we should be prepared for that. Um, I would love actually to spend a bit more time hearing how other companies are happening now. I do think it's fascinating and under so component of this whole.

Speaker B: I think the reality for a lot of organizations I've spoken to is, you know, we have a few models of history that have shown us we have a sick care system, not a healthcare system.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: We wait to the diagnosis, the trauma, the event.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: We know it's good to exercise, to eat healthily, to sleep this way, etc. Whereas we wait till body says, you know, I need, hello, I need help. Yeah, same will be true in most organizations. In reality is that, oh, we're going through change, we hope you do it. Oh, somebody's burnt out, they're suffering. This has happened. We've got a court case, we've got this before something happens. And there's other organizations that go, ah, um, fundamentally we need to bonus sleep in our company to get the problem solving, the learning and the outcomes. And I know several organizations that do that.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: They track sleep and they bonus on the level of sleep. Oh, knowing. Sorry, knowing that that is one of the ultimate upstream elements to performance of the organization. Can be. Some people call that, you know, super intrusive.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, is that an opt in? What does it really look like? All the complexities but irrelevant of that literal example. It's about thinking about where's our responsibility that we can go upstream to then predict the outcome of, uh, happy, healthy, productive work.

Speaker C: Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, like, listen, New York Life's whole mission is around supporting, you know, uh, people as they go through challenges and moments in their life. Some of the worst moments of their life. Right. Losing. Losing someone or wherever it may be. So our mission is deeply seen in empathy. It's really deeply seen. And like it's. It's not just in our mission, it's in the people that work at New York Life. They are so empathetic, they're so caring and we're a very, very caring workforce. It's actually quite an unusual culture in that way. Like, very, very strong passion and affiliation for people and the work they do. And a little bit of what you said, a lot of people have are really well known because they're really good at their thing that they've done for many years. And so there is Actually, I know this won't be lost. It's a grievance and loss and also I know this won't be something that we would sweep under the carpet as part of our approach because we are really in tune with that element of empathy as a company. So, um, it's something we haven't spent a lot of time actively talking about though. And I think it's a, it's a

Speaker B: very important when a job role changes the title, how important that is or isn't, if that's been chosen or chosen for you and all of those things. It makes me think about an episode in Ozark. I don't know if you ever watched the series Ozark. Uh, there was this point where the family were having to transition to new lives and the son, they were given the new passports and it had his new name and um, let's say, I can't remember his exact names, but let's say he was David and he's now going to be John. And he was kind of upset about it. And in the conversation, what I remember of it bastardizing it now years later was it wasn't about becoming the next one of John, it was, I'm not done being David yet.

Speaker C: Right, right.

Speaker B: And that was just a really interesting part that we're in a role.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: I'm excited about that new bit, but I'm not actually done with all of the wedded intricacies of my life. My social community, my peers, my family that see me as this and I see myself in as this to I now do this.

Speaker C: But don't you think a lot of this is also about the unknown though? I don't know what the next version of me is going to be because I've got no idea what the head of talent management should be doing with this, like, you know, bot infused agentic workforce. I don't know what that's going to actually look like. So it is a lot of unknown and uh, a lot of what we're focusing on right now is knowledge. How do we bring people the knowledge? And, and it's, it's external research is just, just learn more. Like learn more about the topic so you don't feel it's so foreign and far away from you. So the learning element, that's where learning really does help with this is because it's when I know more, you know, change management when I want, it's like, okay, I've got the knowledge, I have the awareness, the knowledge, the ad car model, like we've all done that. Um, and then I get the desire. So I think without those two steps, we're really, we've got to get those right. The awareness, the knowledge and then you hope the desire.

Speaker B: The desire. Because there's a mandate.

Speaker C: Right, Right.

Speaker B: You've got that, that the company wants to do it. Now me needs to own, uh, what my contribution to that desire is, how I show up and then give me

Speaker C: the tools, knowledge and frankly, I want you to desire it too. Yeah, that would be the ultimate goal. Right. It wasn't kind of like because the CEO said it, everyone drop everything and we're going to do this. Right? No, I actually this. What we want is a workforce that is as equally bought into the passion and mindset and wanting to change and try and feeling the same, uh, like, you know, level of urgency and pace and excitement with the possibility.

Speaker B: It makes me think we don't know what we don't know as children we role play, we dress up, you know, as different roles, different jobs, different things and try it on, we try on different sports and you know, parents say, no, you're going to keep going to it to really decide whether you like it or not.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Uh, maybe we're back to some of those places of trying these things on.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: You know, back to the shop floor, back to this. Go and try that roll on for a week or two, maybe a month, maybe 30 days. Rather than the big decision, just use that naive innovation in it, use that. Does it fit, does it not fit? And just have that playful of role play around that.

Speaker C: Uh, I think what's interesting is as you think about what does that mean for the workforce though? Because you're in a job, you have a job title, you are in a job family, you are in a function. Like you, you have a particular narrow, like we built, uh, ourselves, we built these narrow little bit. And that's your job there, that's where you sit. That will have to be completely disrupted because it would be really. And this is actually like a few conversations I've been in recently about the work we're doing around skills. Right. And, and tasks and how the future of work's going to look, which is potentially a series of tasks and smart people coming together like you Lego brick tasks put together.

Speaker B: And not a really. This role has these. No, those tasks eclectically mix into an

Speaker C: objective, into a job. Like we've got a task to do, get it done and you3 people who are from marketing, comms and HR are going to work together to deliver it. In fact, the work we're doing with, uh, our AI training work is really an example of that. We're just bringing together time. Tons of people across the organization are like, you seem to know what you're doing. You seem like someone who's doing a lot of work with AI. You are. You have a job that actually requires you to. So let's come together and figure out our approach. So it's kind of interesting to see it play out like this. But we all have a job today. And I don't, I don't know what that means for.

Speaker B: It's the duality of I'm paid to do this job, I've got to do this responsibility and you want me to do this.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And how is that space? You know, and it's the uh, eight old adage of, oh, no innovation happens on this four hours each week or this day to integrate it.

Speaker C: It's innovation time.

Speaker B: Yeah. To integrate it to the jobs that they're already doing.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And it made me think actually a little bit of, you know, the world keeps spinning when we go on holiday. Yeah, right. And we go away for X amount of weeks in the year and it still functions.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: How much could we tweak it in work that we had that holiday? But we could also then have a workation of going and trying a new role for a week.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: We'll go and try and do something rather and we build that into the structure of the org, uh, to say, yeah, your current job is just going to sit as if you were away.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And you go and play over there for a week, see what you learn, what you bring back to the old one. Or say, actually no, I want a pathway to get over there in the next 90 days or other days of the mobility of it.

Speaker C: But you know, this isn't new. Right. Because if you think about the concept of gigs, we're doing it in New York life. We've just launched a folder, ah, AI which is our partner for our beginning, uh, of our skills journey. And us. When I talk about our skills journey, it's really just about us getting data. We want data on our employees. I need insights, I need. I don't know anything. I don't know much about the workforce today. So I'm trying to get like, tell me about you. Who are you? What have you done? What do you want to do? That's really what we're working on. And then helping them to think through what's. What could be next for them. And as part of that we're offering gigs we which is like, hey, I need someone. It's the same concept. I need someone who has certain skills to do this bit of work. And it's time bound. It's kind of specific. It has measurable and it will end. It's a couple of weeks wherever it may be. And, um, we're already playing with that. Right. And we're not the only company. Many are out there and only work like this. So it's starting to happen a bit. Like, try that and you might find, wow, I love that and I want to do more of it. I was really good at it. Um, I almost think the change that would happen though is we might need to stop forcing that and be like, listen, you. I see. This is where even New York life, as we think about the way that the industry is changing. We need a bunch of new skills in our organization and some will go away. So those people who are skills are going away. We don't want to get rid of the people. We want to help them to do something. Different paths and roles.

Speaker B: Redundancy, not people. Redundancy.

Speaker C: Exactly that. And so my thought is, if I know enough about you and I know enough about our company strategy, we can then figure out the delta. Yeah. And I'm going to help you get there. And at some point I'm probably going to tell you, you're going to have

Speaker B: to get there because they might not even be able to see that.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: You know, we have predictive indexes of change, readiness, reskill indexes based on our model. And that then, um, shows the combination of mental flexibility, unlearning all of these things versus, oh, I have this skill. So these are building block skills. They'll help you acquire new ones. So as we come to the end of this episode, in this version, I have a question that I ask every guest at the end. And it's about curiosity. And we've been talking a bit about curiosity here and it's. When was the last time you did something for the first time?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And what was it?

Speaker C: It was last night. Okay. I played craps. Okay.

Speaker B: Is that the, um, um, dice.

Speaker C: Roll the dice. I literally don't know to this minute how it works, but I won some money.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker C: I'm leaving Vegas up. It's the first. Okay.

Speaker B: Very, very cool.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. It's kind of hard, you know, uh, you can't walk anywhere inside a hotel without going past loads of gambling opportunities.

Speaker C: Yeah. And I literally don't have a clue what I'm doing. But I like the. I like the vibe. I like the energy and I'm like, fun here. Yeah.

Speaker B: Beautiful. Well, Tina, it's been an absolute pleasure to get to know you a bit more. Some great insights shared. I hope the audio's been good and we can work with it, uh, for our audience because it's been really beautiful. Thank you so much.

Speaker C: I really enjoyed it.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker A: Do you have the level of adaptability to survive and thrive the rapid changes ahead? Has your resilience got more comeback than a yo yo? Do you have the ability to unlearn in order to reskill, upskill and breakthrough? Find out today and uncover your adaptability profile and score your AQ. Visit aqai IO to gain your personalised report across 15 scientifically validated dimensions of adaptability. For a limited time, enter code PODCAST65 for a complimentary AQME M assessment. AQ transforming the way people, teams and organizations navigate change. Thank you for listening to this episode of Decoding aq. Please make sure you subscribe on your favorite podcast directory and we'd love to hear your feedback. Please do leave a review and be sure to tune in next time for more insights from our amazing guests.