Decoding AQ with Ross Thornley Feat. Tim Bowie - Professional business coach.

Speaker A: Hi and welcome to Decoding aq. Helping you to learn the tools, mindsets and actions to thrive in an ever changing world.

Speaker B: Hi and welcome to the next episode. In fact, this is recording number two for this year. Uh, today I'm actually recording it on the 2nd of January. It's my first day back and I am really excited to welcome now someone who's become a good friend, Tim, uh, Bowie. He's the owner of, of Bowie and Associates and he's a remarkable professional business coach. So welcome to the show, Tim.

Speaker C: Thank you, Ross. Looking forward to it. Thrilled to be here.

Speaker B: Nice. So Tim is one of our certified level two professional adaptability partners. He's an expert really in empowering leaders to embrace change with optimism and strategy. He's got over three decades of experience from sales roles in tech beasts like Lenovo, IBM and Dell, to his career transitioning into not only sales strategy, but leadership development and business coaching. He's dedicated really his career in helping organizations and individuals unlock their potential. So I'm looking forward specifically today to sort of sharing with you Tim's journey in AQ through some of his different projects at Higher University and exploring how perhaps leveraging AQ people data can maximize mergers and acquisitions success. But before we get into that, Tim, how did you close out 2024? What was perhaps your biggest takeaway?

Speaker C: Oh boy, my biggest takeaway is great. Year of transition for me. I really started uh, the year leaning uh, on my faith, family and friends as my foundation. And I quickly learned about, as I was going through my coaching certification about this idea of adaptability. And uh, with that I really uh, jumped right on board with that, embracing changes I've done many times in my career. But I think how did I finish it? And what was a big takeaway was reinvention. I once again reinvented myself from the former self. I had to let go of that one and figure out the new self. And it's been really fantastic. I've learned a lot this year. I survived through the year and now I'm ready to thrive in 25. I actually had this from uh, one of my daughters. 2020 thrive. It's now going to be 2023.

Speaker B: I like it. I like it. Often when we go through rein, it's this combination between what do we let go and what will we take forward with. And so if you reflect on that, what are some of the things that you're consciously taking forward from perhaps a past version of Tim, corporate Tim, of those things that you're taking forward, some of those Gems of lessons or characteristics or who Tim is? What are some of those before we then go? What has changed? What have you had to let go of? What have you brought forward with you from that?

Speaker C: Uh, I brought forward certainly my uh, positive outlook, uh and hopeful outlook. I know that I can do this. I've done this before and I have great faith and trust and myself and God, uh, to carry it forward uh, and be willing to accept uh, different outcomes and circumstances

Speaker B: and that I've done this before. Is that a sense of I've done this before? I e faced different things and uncertainty, therefore I'm okay with it or I've done this before as I face this type of challenge and I know how to solve it. Or uh. Is it a bit of both?

Speaker C: Uh, well it is a bit of both but I think it's um, more of the first uh, because uh, this reinvention is yet again something new and different that I haven't quite exactly done this way and that being starting my own business, uh, I had a small version of uh, coaching and counseling 15 years ago, uh, but nothing to the extent that I expect this one to grow into. The opportunity is so big here in the need I think is even greater.

Speaker B: And if we track back to perhaps a couple of uh, different reinventions but transitions nonetheless in your career today, what are some of the highlights of that in terms of um, what IT taught you, what IT gifted you along the way?

Speaker C: The one that I'm most proud of and think I got the most from really was my transition from hardware software, IT sales to education sales. Not selling in the education space but helping our customers as they're transitioning in their IT platforms. This was at ah, Dell and emc, formerly finally emc as they're transitioning in their platforms from their as is to the to be state. Uh, with the new technology they're buying I was able to help uh, um, with skills gaps, identify the skills gaps and then help them uh, transition their teams uh, to those new, new necessary skills. And what I learned in that, really what came out of me was the ability to help people help themselves, to help people transition to better themselves. As I uh, proudly reflect on it is the individual improved, the team improved, the company improved and that improved our relationships between being a provider and whatnot. So my takeaway from that is it really helped me get the foundation of what I love and thrive in is helping other people. And I can carry that to any type of profession. But particularly in a coaching profession that's the foundation is helping People see things differently and draw out the best of themselves and improve. Which improves the world around us.

Speaker B: Ah, absolutely it does. And I'm sure that many listening would say yeah, we're in that zone right now.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: In terms of how do we analyze what skills we currently have, where are the gaps and how do we move to the future state of requirements. So walk me through perhaps some of those. Uh, a project that comes to mind of what did that actually look like when we say these things and we go oh yeah, it was a skills gap analysis and I help people reach their potential. Walk me through a little bit of some of the actual stories and steps of what you experienced and maybe point out a few indicators of hey, this went well. This didn't go so well. Take me through a journey of that.

Speaker A: Tim.

Speaker C: Mhm. I want to start with first. Uh, this is when cloud started becoming a thing in the storage industry. As we, cloud was hitting uh, the landscape in about 2012, you know, a few years before that started becoming more mainstream after that. And I remember one gentleman in particular that um, so I'll take this on an individual level and then I'll go to an organizational level uh, with another example, uh, so this gentleman embraced our cloud certification offering that we had which was not set on any particular technology. It was more conceptual about infrastructure, moving to the cloud and how to become a cloud architect if you will to help design that. And you know it's fantastic Ross, when you can get an individual who really is open minded and willing to invest in himself and, and let go and be willing to, to learn new things and, and I remember one guy in particular and he walked through, we walked through a journey together of really three different certification levels for this gentleman and it changed his career trajectory and that of his organization that he's working for. Major uh, power organization, energy company, uh, here in Columbus, Ohio, American Electric Power. And this guy with, with his change in his foresight he was able to lead that organization into the cloud infrastructure that they needed. So that, and I have many examples like that I'm sure but uh, that was one in particular that was early on in my journey into the education space.

Speaker B: So before you go on to sort of organization level, so an individual as you mentioned, it's good when they have an open mind, right? So they're going in willingly. Uh, I see an opportunity, I want to do that. So that's key. But then some of the sort of practicalities of that were so overwhelmed with different modalities that we can do that in terms of Was it scenario based? Was it experiences? Was it peer learning? Was he with uh, cohorts, Was it all online? You know, what were some of the actual details of that program and what kind of period was that going over? Did he go from this open minded and three months later he's certified and he's leading the business? Did it take a year, Give us some uh, scope around that to give some flavor of oh I uh, uh, I don't feel quite so bad with what I'm now facing or I'm doing or what I'm trying to implement or whoa, I really need to level up here. So give us a framework of reference for that.

Speaker C: Tim, in that day, in that time period, I, I don't recall that we were streaming uh, the classes or education at that point. So in, in his case it was live classes. Uh, so he was in, you know, with a group of people, um, live. So uh, not a designated cohort but just out of uh, the circumstance you would make your own cohort. Uh, we did have static, um, you know, filming of the class and then somebody could go and go through a class that way too. But, but it wasn't dynamic like they are today when you have a streaming

Speaker B: and interact a decade ago. Right, right, right.

Speaker C: Yeah. Even more um, and I don't recall a time frame but I'm sure that it was over more over a six month to probably a year and a half period. Uh, it wasn't just a bam, bam,

Speaker B: bam and get it suddenly wakes up on the following morning and going eureka. I've got it. It's often a period of learn, reflect, apply, you know, readjust as we go through this. And of course the speed of change 10, 12 years ago was very different to now in terms of the expectations on ourselves and the expectations of others and teams. So perhaps just before we shift into that I'll give you some space and opportunity to um, give us an idea of then often from individuals it has team and organizational impact. Um, and so share perhaps some stories and an example of that, of this shift of using education as a lever of growth. Right.

Speaker C: Oh my gosh, where to start, where to start and then when to stop. Um, so I'm going to use. I dealt with the big auto industry here in the United States and one of them was doing a very fundamental shift from for decades having outsourced the majority of their it to they had a new CEO come in and now they're doing an insourcing of all their it. Not in the tune of hundreds of people, but in the tune of thousands to tens of thousands of new people coming in and along with that same time shifting to new technologies that they're bringing all this in house to in the hundreds of millions of dollars. So it was uh, it was a big deal and that certainly was over a much longer period of time. But my involve uh, was helping with some of the initial group to come in uh again still from a cloud and agile development standpoint. And I had a team of people that I worked with on the outside to help with, with the, the company on the inside, uh, design uh, these plans or put together these plans around this transformation. It was huge IT transformation project as you could imagine, plus doing all the insourcing. And we helped hundreds and hundreds of these people change their career and step into a new career because a lot of those jobs didn't exist, not in that organization. So we need to train from a base level to then also a very uh, specific detailed level, especially around uh, agile development if you're, you know we don't hear much about that today it's really mainstream. But five years ago that was, it wasn't new but it was certainly uh, top of mind and radar for people at that time.

Speaker B: And I guess in a similar way of going from this mentality of maintaining a physical solution base for an IT infrastructure to a thinking about cloud and just getting our heads around that, all the shifts of perspective of thinking, the SOPs, the technology and then the roles was a massive shift for people to go through. And I, I can envisage a very similar shift taking place now around embedding AI. Right. So we went from a way of doing things before that was successful that had roles, that had skills that had you know, a T shirt wearing that I'm valuable because I know have this knowledge and I provide this service to now suddenly how I provide value needs to shift and change and my role and my tasks and everything needs to shift and change. We were at uh, the, at uh the precipice of that with AI interfacing in every avenue, every industry, every task, uh, in our world. And it's a combination of just the same things you talked about, isn't it? Of the mindset set, the perspectives, new technology adaptations, new roles, new skills, new SOPs. And so what are you seeing, um, perhaps before we uh, explore more in, in the corporate world what's going on inside uh universities because you've um, been working a little bit and doing some projects. I mentioned it earlier about a higher university because if it's anywhere we need to upstream it into education earlier, don't we? Right alongside latter education for the entire workforce. Now just give me some um, some flavor for what was it, what was the project, what were you involved in? And give me some highlights for that.

Speaker A: Tim.

Speaker C: Um, first I want to say, uh, before I talk about my project. So I graduated from Ohio University and three of my four kids have went there. Two are about to graduate and the other one earlier. And it was a year ago, maybe almost a year and a half ago that I sat with uh, so Ohio University was coming out into the different communities. We're about an hour away from the university in, in Columbus, Ohio, they're in Athens, Ohio. And they had different um, deans coming out just, just as a community outreach. And I was so proud that they were right on front, on top of, uh, incorporating uh, education about AI into their curriculums, not only for the students, but also for each part of the different schools, like engineering, even art. And they were early adopters trying to figure out how do we incorporate this AI stuff into our programs. One, so we can have that competitive advantage, but also how we can prepare the future workforce. You know, they, they would have used that terminology exactly as that because they took the responsibility. We got to prepare these students, I want to say kids, but we got to prepare these students because that's the future they're walking into in a year or four from now. Uh, so I was very glad on that. My part happened to be with the center of Entrepreneurship, uh, which one of my sons was going through this program and is in the program in this past summer. I wanted to meet with uh, the director of that program to thank him for the mentorship he had given my son. So we were having lunch over the summer. You know, it's low key, you know, activity around the university at that time. And this guy I know, me, had just gotten done with my level one certification. So I was all excited about adaptability. And of course I'm sharing it with him. He's like, I'd like to learn more about this. So over the summer we met a couple times and talked about it and decided he'd like to try a pilot project with one of his classes in the fall semester, which is what we did. So this is a entrepreneur slash, um, management class of students, 32 students. And we worked on what of our, what are our goals and objectives here, what are we trying to do? And that was to uh, inform them about adaptability since it's the most sought after skill. Thank you for coming up with that. You and LinkedIn and Harvard Business Review and many others, uh, the most sought after skill in the workforce today. So let's prepare them for that. So teach them a little bit about adaptability, give them a baseline which we can do with our ACE model and the AQ assessment, uh, then help them with development. So if you have areas that you're strong in, lean into that. If you have areas to develop, do that. And I want to inflect here just for a moment because as I was working on this project for my level two case study, I thought about where are these uh, students going to want to go when they graduate? So I started mapping out different, the different parts of our 15 sub dimensions to different job roles. So I looked at like uh, engineer, technical, uh, sales, administrative, founder, leadership had about seven or eight different. And I mapped out different sub dimensions to those so that I could show the students. Students, show the class. If you want to be this, here's the sub dimensions. So if you're strong in these, great. If you want to be this. And you need um, certain ones to develop in that area. So we took them through that phase and then the last phase of our education with them was to do mock interviews. And sadly I didn't actually get to participate in that myself. But the point of that is to say instead of just saying, oh, I've taken an adaptability assessment, here's my adaptability journey. So they can talk through that at, in their interviews as they're you know, getting out into the workforce. And it's a huge differentiator and benefit for them to have gone through that one. One of the things that stood out a lot uh, to me was um, the director had actually done a, a soft, not an assessment but a questionnaire. How adaptable do you think you are? And they all thought they were very adaptable. Um, but the test results showed a little bit different, that there was definitely um, some, some room to improve. And keep in mind this group is coming. They're the ones who didn't. They went through Covid, uh, for their high school or first couple years of college. So it was, it's, they are an adaptable group but in a different perspective. So. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I, I think it's fascinating isn't it, how we instinctively feel a certain way about something and then you know, that perspective is often true, but it's contextual certainly for adaptability. We're, we're, we're all adaptable as long as we're living, as long as we're alive, right? We're adapting to new things. New information, new relationships, new people, new circumstances, new political leaders, whatever it may be. We're adapting to those in different ways that we might want to accept and tolerate and cope. We might require a transformation and change of ourselves in order to survive or thrive within that shift. Or we might say, I don't like that environment. I want to work on changing the environment and change a policy change, an industry change, a law change of whatever it might be, perspective of people around how we treat other people or how we treat societal factors or climate factors or various things. So this adaptation, that is life, right? A series of adaptations. And I think what's really important is what you've been looking at there is the intentional use of this. So the intentional use to gain progress towards, uh, a set desired goal. So if a desired goal might be, okay, how do I show, um, up as me in a role that I want to go for, you know, as a mock interview or those types of things. How do I, um, articulate. How do I show my story, my journey? And you talked about that. I've now got awareness, I've got some insight about some of these dimensions and things that are for many people, just words or resilient. Resilient. Or I'm, um, you know, mentally flexible. They can actually articulate this much better through stories of their own lived journey. And, uh, have you had yet? Because I know it's still quite fresh. Any nuggets of outcomes or situations that have happened post some of that program?

Speaker C: Tim, I, uh, don't. But I have a call scheduled Monday, uh, with Paul, the director, and we're going to review that, um, because the semester just finished right before Christmas, uh, so we didn't have a chance to close out before. Before this call, unfortunately. I'll get back to you on that one.

Speaker B: Yeah, so we have a little mini post update for people of, you know, what happened, what were some of the outcomes of that, uh, of those things as it expands. And it's an exciting area for us as an organization where we're starting to see it, uh, permeate inside education. You know, there are several, you know, four or five universities now around the world that are starting to put our, as you mentioned, ACE model, ability, character environment and our, uh, whole platform program into the curriculum of certain university programs, which is just, you know, fascinating. Amazing, uh, opportunity that we hadn't envisaged when we started out.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: You know, you, you lay the tracks just as a few in front as you go, you know, of, of the opportunities. And so the other area that you've been interested in, perhaps leading off the back of that of this mapping between roles and actual skills and dimension results, is around mergers and acquisitions. So tell me a bit more about that. What's your interest in that? Coming from a, you know, sales and corporate, uh, background. What's your interest, Tim?

Speaker C: Well, I'm glad that you brought this up because I really did hope that we would have a chance to talk about it. It's amazing to me, Ross, how everything in my world is just aligning so perfectly. Uh, and I can, I can look back and start connecting the dots, uh, through my history, my career that's prepared me for this today. Um, and it has to do with being in it. I've, I've picked some winners and I've picked some losers in terms of my employers. So I've been through quite a few mergers and acquisitions and I remember in some dark times at ah, post, uh, post um, 2000, uh, sitting in this big warehouse of an office and just seeing people walked out, walk down the hallway and you just know that they're not coming back. And it was terrible, it was very bad. Um, but anyway, you know, I went through that and I've gone through the ones like with the Dell and EMC merger and acquisition.

Speaker B: It was a huge one.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker C: It was the largest IT acquisition still even today.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker C: Um, and I think by and large it was very successful. Yeah, some people lost their jobs, a lot of people lost their jobs. People were still losing their jobs. Many new people got new jobs too as a result of it. Um, but back to the point relative to, on the heels of finishing my project at Ohio University and having done the job role mapping with the different sub dimensions, um, from our ACE model, I was working with the company that they had kind of stalled in talking to me and then I found out why is because they were going through an acquisition and then once the. Or a merger actually they got acquired once, once that was out publicly, then they re engaged with me. Um, they're like, okay, we're not ready yet. But it got me thinking with this job role mapping. It's perfect. Not only the adaptability idea in the merger and acquisition space because there's so much change going on, but particularly around this job role mapping because it's helpful for the teams on the acquisition side and on the acquired side because job roles are going to change on both sides and if we can help them have a different, you know, help them just invest in any energy and time and development of them is going to help this, these people stick around because one of the, obviously the biggest things and an acquisition, if you, if the acquisition is not just to ring out the value of the company you're acquiring, but you're really trying to build something better, it's the people. So after the, after you got the eyes dotted and T's crossed, then let's start working with the people. Because some people are just going to leave out of the anxiety of the change. Other people are going to kind of see how it goes. And if you're not engaging them, you know, six months down the road, there's going to be attrition. But I think we've got something to solve and address that. And I just get so excited about having had the history in that space, not working in mergers and acquisitions, but being part of them, uh, and now knowing that we've got a platform to help address that and we can make a difference in people's lives big time.

Speaker B: It is really interesting all the little niche opportunities of application of something. So if you take an invention, take the pen for example, how it can be used in so many different circumstances, right, to um, you know, to get married, to get divorced, to sign a job, to end a job, to all of these different things, it's inert until we give it meaning, till we give it a purpose. It's a bit like some of this data inside our adaptability intelligence is. Until we give it a context and a purpose, it's kind of, well, okay, what is it? How do I use it? And so this opportunity of mergers and acquisitions, this is a fascinating one. And I, uh, think you, you know, it comes from a set of experiences and then a, uh, desire to improve state. And so you've got some level of knowledge and then a desire to shift it as long as you've not got too much knowledge that you can't see the opportunities because, yeah, too close. You know, you need an element of naivety to, to innovate. Right. We need an element of curiosity and discovery. And we've actually had one of our very first, uh, organizations that said we're in was a construction, uh, and engineering firm that uh, the application of use was for acquisitions. Um, and they would acquire somewhere between five and six new companies per year. Um, and they were growing rapidly and over the last, you know, uh, four years or so they've been using AQ to map and identify each time they bring on a new, anywhere between, you know, 20 people, 100 people, 150 new people in Each organization that they acquire as they expand across the states, you know, they're now in I think 90 plus locations and they've been acquiring along the way and often you don't see the issue until the symptom becomes visible later down the line. You know, that someone's struggling, someone's you know, um, you know, hasn't highlighted out that they're anxious or you know it takes a you know, intuitive line manager or leader to say hey, you know Tim, somebody who can, you know is potentially at risk here, got great knowledge but we need to make sure that he understands this bit, knows where he's going, knows his opportunity and this is how he fits in the new org, whatever it might be. And I think one of the opportunities is to get further upstream in that right to get the data and to unlock potential in um, unseen ways. One of the things I've noticed working with so many different um, you know, coaches and consultants is the experience of development of talent has often been in a pre designed way I. E. We go from this role, then we take this responsibility, then we get to this level management, then this happens, then we get to direct level, then this happens. We tend to have a map direction of what career development kind of looks like based from what our education was. Uh, this person was educated in this, they work in this area. You do get some outliers but uh, we're often pigeonholed into our roles based on our experience. So the opportunity of adaptability to say hey, whatever their experience was in that current role, these are some underlying skills gives them opportunity to do tasks and roles that weren't previously thought of by talent management and development cycles. And so the sort of roles mapping and those kind of things. When you add this layer of, of AQ data in there it can come up with some really interesting opportunities of much more um, almost down to the fractional roles that we're starting to see, you know of senior roles that are becoming fractional that you have a portfolio of roles that how you might have a portfolio of tasks across different roles rather than ah has to be this is my role, this is the spec, this is what I'm recruiting for rather than these are the skills use me in all sorts of different projects, all sorts of different roles in all sorts of different ways. I think we're going to see a massive shift in what a contract looks like around a title and role description to a contract that looks around skills and applying those skills to um, outcomes not defined by a role description. And I'm just curious as your thoughts that the opportunity that in a merger and acquisition might give potential for that to spark off than a, uh. Oh no, we need them to hit this role with this job description. So. Curious about your thoughts on what my thinking is around there.

Speaker C: Well, I think you're right on target. Um, there's this documentary I listened to recently called Pivot Point and, and I might get this quote a little bit, uh, wrong. But um, the jobs that we, the jobs of the future aren't even designed yet. Um, so people are hiring for these jobs that don't even exist yet because so much of the, the um, uh, roles today aren't going to apply. And what is. It's just in the next few years like 40% of the jobs won't even exist today that are here today or won't exist then that are here today. Is that right?

Speaker B: Yeah. There's so much data around this, right in, in terms of, you know, different studies, whether it's McKinsey, LinkedIn, you know, um, Corn Ferry now just realizing the absolutely exponential shift of job roles. So coming back to your stories earlier of shifting from you know, uh, IT roles in a pre cloud era to IT roles post cloud era, we're gonna have a similar shift, if not even larger, where cloud was in a particular niche area of careers, uh, and industry. Imagine that in every industry, in every type of job and career with a little bit of extra speed and extra impact on. I think that's where we're at that, you know, the reality of what the job role is shifting and the types of tasks, not only the types of tasks, but the way those tasks can be delivered, um, and the expertise required to deliver them. I think it's a little bit uh, akin to perhaps where knowledge was and the closeness to ie, take uh, software it was on your machine to having a dumb terminal with it based on, you know, on another machine that you're accessing to then based on the cloud. Therefore, what does your machine, the interface moment require similar, um, for humans and human tasks is that we've often felt, no, the software has to be installed and the knowledge has to be installed. What I think we're now starting to see is the principles need to be installed and methodologies need to be installed, not the, you know, knowledge or expertise and that can exist at a distance in technology and use those as levers that we can then look at. Uh, what's the point? What's the purpose? What am I trying to do? And can we discern how to take that information into insights to make decisions. So I think there's these compounding factors layering in that will redefine roles, tasks, ah, at job descriptions.

Speaker C: So, so I would like to add in too on the what, what's got me excited about the M and A space and it's as much the need, um, more than the opportunity if you will. But the need is in the United States and probably in Europe and other developed countries as well is the baby boomer age. You know, I'm at the end of the baby boomers, uh, with my age, I'll be 62 this month. And 40% of all small businesses in the US are owned by this baby boomer generation. And they're all going to transition. They say in the next five years, let's say five to 10 years, these businesses are going to transition. They're either going to go out of business, they're going to go to a family member, they're going to be acquired or whatever. And they estimate that to be about 10 million businesses. So this is, you know, regardless of how much acquisitions merger has been going on now, I think it's probably hardly anything. You know, we're, we use the, the rate of change. You know, we're in the, in that curve on the hockey stick. We're in the same way on business transition and we marry that with our moonshot goal of helping a, uh, hundred million people by 2030. It's just a marriage made. I mean we need to get, I want to get all of our coaches jumping in on this because the need is there so great, uh, to help those organizations and help the people, help the individuals.

Speaker B: And so where are you starting on that journey in terms of, okay, so you've identified a trend M and A is going to increase. You've identified a need during M and as in terms of that transition of the people going through change, need support, need to adapt new processes, new systems, new roles. Uh, what do you do next when you've got those two things identified, what are you doing and what does your, you know, 2020 thrive, 20, uh, 25 look like for you? Of what are you, how are you gonna approach this?

Speaker C: Um, so I have two responses to that. And the first is I've already been working with some M A brokers, uh, to kind of vet this out. Is there value here? How does it fit in? Where does it fit in? Like from a timing standpoint, uh, you know, the earlier we can get in about adaptability. We can, it doesn't have to be about the merger acquisition, it's just about Change. So let's help those people there and then the, uh, more successful them and A will be. But if we're coming in after the acquisition has happened, it's still, hey, you just went through change. Let us help you and uh, learn how to embrace that. So that's one part, and I'm glad that you're focused on HR folks, because that's the other part that I've been. I've had a couple interviews or meetings with some HR folks to also vet this out. Like, am I going along the light right path here to help in the development, you know, uh, of people as they're going through these changes? So that's part one and part two is what am I going to do in 25, 20? Thrive is. I've just got to get one, I've got to get a customer, uh, so we can start working through it. And then we learn so much as we just, you know, the good and the bad and what we got to change, uh, as going through that. I don't have that target company yet, uh, but that's uh, top of mind for Q1. For me, that's a, uh, number one goal.

Speaker B: That initial pioneer, that organization that says, I hear what you're saying, Tim, we're going through it, come and help us, um, and realizing this, um, critical intensity of that moment, that moment of an M and a transition of, you know, a relationship, an identity, who I work for, why I work for them, who I'm working with, in what way, in what systems. And suddenly all of that is shifting. And that's shifting on both sides, right, to uh, of, of those organizations. And, you know, it's how does it integrate with the current plans? Right? Nobody wants more work to do. They want the work that they're currently doing being easier, better, more fulfilling, you know, more productive, um, more worthwhile. So I think one of the challenges that many of us face, right, we, we have a tool, we have something that's interesting. We see it now, pockets of outcomes that are giving us an indication that, yeah, this is worthwhile. So you get the reports, you get the research from these big houses, then you start to look, uh, at who's adopting it and why and does it solve some of the challenges and does it help them realize the opportunities that they want to. So for you, it's then this phase of, okay, I'm focused in on this niche M and A's. I'm looking for an organization that is going through it and willing to say, okay, let's get some people data let's look at this and see if we can identify high potential, those at risk. What are we doing? How do we transition through that of that period? And um, you're speaking to brokers as a potential weigh in to some of those things. Right, right. Um, what would it look like in terms of give me the pitch. I'm about to acquire somebody, uh, of an organization. Why would working with you and using this data help me? What's it helping me achieve? What's my job to be done? What, you know, in six months time? What does my world look like? Walk me through that, Tim.

Speaker C: So, Ross, you're getting ready to acquire another company, right? I understand that and I appreciate you sharing that with me. What's the most important element of that acquisition? Why are you doing it?

Speaker B: I think there's a couple of reasons why I'm doing it. Um, one is to bring another, uh, product into our portfolio to our current, uh, customers and audience. That I think is going to provide value. And the other one is, um, on the flip side, a distribution network of their customers and their channel for our product. So it's those two things that I want to be able to leverage in this acquisition of taking two unique products that apply to each other's customers and have a program that then delivers and integrates value for both of them. Now I recognize that, um, you know, the two organizations are at different stages of their journey, different uh, sizes, uh, in terms of they have, you know, in fact this is a interesting role play because there is one I have in mind, you know, that have about 900 partners, uh, similar in our space, you know, have a psychometric, have an assessment model of those sorts of things. And to your point of the ownership age and succession and period, there's an opportunity. Right. I'm hungry. We approach it in a very different technological way, um, and I see huge opportunities there. So I, I believe I can leverage increased value for our customers and their customers. I believe I can improve efficiencies through our systems and technology over some of their perhaps latency, um, perhaps some outdated technology use, shall we say. Uh, and I just feel that this will help us achieve our mission of hitting the 100 million people, um, by 2030.

Speaker C: I love it. One of the things that I heard here that's core is the customers, shared customers, um, that can benefit with both offerings coming together and gaining efficiencies between the companies. So what about those relationships with the customers and the efficiencies with the processes? What's a critical ingredient in that?

Speaker B: So I Think the. When I look at it in terms of looking at our own community, it's built on relationships, the relationships of the people and what they believe. So what they believe of, uh, what has value and what doesn't have value and what problems they can solve and can't solve. And so that can be an incredible advantage. But it can also be a disadvantage to, I don't need anything new. I've already got something that I'm trying to get traction with, I'm trying to work with, trying to get in there. And you're now wanting us to put another, you know, another dish on the menu. And I think that's going to be one of the key challenges for building understanding and belief in the relationships of how these products integrate with each other, how they still serve the client in different ways, um, without people going, well, that's not important to me. I'm not that passionate about that because I've been passionate about this, um, and because they're passionate about a product, in my mind is the barrier versus they're passionate about the outcome for the client that they're wanting, irrelevant of what the product happens to be. So I think that's going to be a key transition for both, uh, our community that are very passionate about the product. Whilst, you know, we hope that they're and think they're passionate about the outcome, it's still very much shiny object, you know, mentality of, I've got this thing, it's really great, versus it doesn't matter what the thing is, it's the outcome that's there. Um, and I think that transition, both for our community and for the community that we would acquire, um, is ripe with challenge and opportunity.

Speaker C: Um, you've been in business a long time, you've started more than one company and, um, so, you know, in a, in an acquisition, there's going to be a certain percentage of the workforce on either side that might not stick around to see what you've got going on. What if I could give you a solution to help improve that outcome? Because I am passionate about the outcome. What if I could give you a solution to help, um, keep those people on board, especially the key people, to help them embrace the changes that's happening on both sides. I'm sure you're going to say, yeah, tell me more about it. Would. That's.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think the challenge, Tim, is around the when does the value come, the time to value? So if I'm adopting something new like this, um, having that CEO hat on of a company that's acquiring not the one that is, you know, providing the service that you're talking about. For me it's about well, are you wanting me to bet and risk my time, my people, my focus and my money on something that may or may not have that result? You might show me stuff, you might give me things, I don't know till the back end. And when I'm at that back end I don't know if it was because of what we did together or something else. So what's really difficult for me when you're acquiring services to solve a problem is did it really result in the outcome and what would have happened if we did or didn't do it? Right? I don't know. And some of the challenges in if I've got to write a check now versus write the check on the back end, that's different. What have I got to write in terms of the check? That is time commitment is important to me. So these people that I'm bringing in, am I writing a check on their behalf that says they need to show up in X amount of education, coaching, training, etc of those things is that that buy in is going to be so critical for me is that I need to know that you're going to help me make it dead easy for them, not overburden them with their responsibilities in time when they're going to be stressed and anxious with a ton of stuff to do. So I want it to be easy to implement. I want it to um, I want to know whether it's worked or not. Um, and I want to you know, give uh, value to you commencement to the value that I gain and I'm more happy to do that at the back end than I am at the front end. That's my thinking.

Speaker C: So if I can give you all of that, if I can give you some of that, if I can help you improve um, the uh, uh, the acceptance of your people, you know, within the merger and acquisition and reduce the attrition, that's naturally going to happen to one degree or another, which I think we both agreed. Yeah, that's going to happen to some degree. But you don't even pay me until after the fact, after you get through it and we see the results because we can measure results and will it be all because of the solution we come up with? No, there's going to be other factors that go into that but data shows us that investing in people, developing in people, uh, really regardless of whatever you're doing. But in this case around adaptability, there's Productivity improvement, there's loyalty improvement. And I've got different data points to, to back all that up. There's cost reduction, uh, in the employee because of well, being, um, you know, missed days of work. How about, um, intellectual, uh, capital walking out the door? You know, that's. It's a hard one to measure, but if we can improve some of these things, all of these things just a little bit, it's a worthwhile adventure.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I think it's interesting, you know, as you role play and you go through these types of scenarios to hook into what are the triggers of the decision making, who are making those decisions? I, uh, e. I might be more interested in people feeling great about it and adopting the new products. Really? Well, the finance guy might be way more interested in what's the numbers, Tim? Show me how this is going to impact the adoptions and speed of sales of the, you know, the merger that instead of it taking three months for us to get everybody on board to the new propositions, I want to do it in two or whatever it may be. And I think it's very practically looking at what can be done and when over an integrated approach with projects that are already happening. That makes it easy just to append rather than. I've got this whole big other thing to do, uh, because it's already a big thing to do. Right. So, uh, for me it would be understanding what work streams we've currently got, what are the current onboarding and development, uh, cycles and where does this integrate within it, you know, and making that just dead easy. So my advice, back to you, Tim, in this process, is to just make it really easy for that person to understand how you support that integration into what they're already doing of using this data, using coaching, using the community, whatever those things are, those modalities and what the framework of the contract of what am I contracting to, to you with other than writing a check, um, and what that clarity of that is of the expectation of people, and then help me if I'm passionate about it, as the champion, get other people internally, the stakeholders bought into this. How do you do that? What, what do you do? Um, do you share a story? Do you come in, uh, do you do elements, uh, that just phase it with Gates, you know, let's get this done quick, let's get a pilot going, let's see what impact we can do within one week, within four weeks, within 90 days. You know, what does that really look like? Because obviously with an M M and a time is of the essence Right. Uh, in that, that first 90 days is critical and the first one year is critical, uh, of that. So I want to see glimmers of hope early and then replicable to mitigate the risks and maximize the opportunities. Right.

Speaker C: It's a tall order, isn't it?

Speaker B: It is, it is. And I think the challenge these is that it soon gets complex. And so how do I make it simple to start with, um, and build from there as you build relationship and rapport and trust with a new one.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Because you're saying you're looking for that new person. So if anyone who's listening is going through, um, a situation like this that feels, um, up for the opportunity, um, to bring Tim and perhaps other people involved to co. Elevate, to co learn together, um, I think that would be wicked, wouldn't it?

Speaker C: Yes. Let's do it. Let's try it. Let's work together, figure it out, make it so, you know, uh, we know there's challenges there and it's going to take effort and it's going to cost money and it's going to take time. But if they're not addressed after the fact, there's still a challenge. It's going to cost more money, take more time and more effort to resolve. So let's try to get in front of it.

Speaker B: Yeah. And what would be an ideal size for that first pilot for you in terms of, you know, Adele and, um. I mean, there's a monster. What sort of thing do you feel? Actually that's where I want to cut my teeth to get in this, you know, you talking to the brokers, those sorts of things. What sort of. If you painted for me in the last, you know, as we're closing out this session, a perfect picture of who you could engage with. Would it be a tech firm going through this, acquiring a 50 person piece that does this? This isn't this paint the perfect picture of what you feel. Oh, that sounds good to me right now.

Speaker C: I love that thought and I'm glad you teed that, uh, up. Um, I love technology. I've been in technology for almost 40 years, so that would be a very sweet spot for me. Um, it doesn't have to be that. Uh, and I think smaller is better now, you know, maybe 100 or so, uh, employees on one side or the other of this equation or, or maybe total, uh, as we're figuring this out, you know, if I get into to thousands like you mentioned, it does get much more complicated.

Speaker B: Much more complicated. So it's employee size of, you know, in the hundreds, you know, 50 to 100, something like that. Couple hundred, maybe. Uh, going through something where it really matters, it really counts, it will be visible and seen, uh, something like this. You know, it'll have a huge impact in M and A. And we're going to see loads of them. You know, you talked about just the US 10 million of them over the next five to 10 years that are transitioning ownership, either ownership to the graveyard or ownership to a new person. Right. Um, and those are choices that are going to be really fundamental ones, um, to look at. So I think it's an amazing niche. I'd encourage you to, you know, uh, I think it was a Steve Jobs piece around what he was most proud of of all the products. And he said it was the, you know, the decisions, the ones he said no to. Um, and the power of no. And, you know, you mentioned about, oh, technology, I'd love that, but any others? No. Go for it. If technology is still passionate for you and you can leverage some of that experience, go for that. Find something that lights your fire, uh, within it, because that'll be felt by the people that you then work with and engage of what you can do. Um, and is there something that you hoped I would have asked or we would have covered in this conversation? And if so, tell me what it is and we'll see if we can cover it in the next couple of minutes.

Speaker C: Before we close out, Tim, um, what's your last question? I'm really looking forward to.

Speaker B: I will do that one. Other than that one.

Speaker C: Um, yeah, I just want to emphasize the value, at least for me personally, and I think the people around me is, ah, hope and optimism and positivity with a dash of gratitude. Man, that. That can get people through anything. But you. It's got to be internal. You can't just try to program yourself for that. You. You kind of either have it or you don't. Yes, some of that can be developed over time, but, uh, those are the things that, you know, have been Hallmark for my whole life. And I, I love being a hopeful person. I was glad to get the. The great measurement on it when I first did my first AQ assessment. Um, and. And the gratitude. We always start with gratitude. Except on this call today, uh, one of our gratitude.

Speaker B: Maybe I should do that. Maybe I should do that. Introduce it into the podcast as well. That'd be fun.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, so that. That would be it.

Speaker B: All right, so we'll do two things to finish off, Tim. Uh, in fact, three things first one importantly, people want to get in touch with you. How do they get in touch with you?

Speaker C: Best way is on LinkedIn.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: My contact information there and my profile is there. So thank you for.

Speaker B: So Tim Bowie. Bo Wie. Tim bowie. Uh, on LinkedIn. We'll put the, in the show notes as well. So the two other pieces. I want to do a gratitude focus at the end of the session. Why not? And then we'll do the last question, which is about the first time stuff which you know, as an avid listener. So um, what are you grateful for? Give me the last, uh, perhaps, you know, it's been a end of year period. We started with a key lesson. What are you most grateful for over the last couple of weeks in your lifetime?

Speaker C: Mine was, is all family. I've got uh, two daughters that are married and two sons are away at college. And somebody uh, had asked me back in mid December what I wanted for Christmas. And I'm like family time. I want all my kids to be there, to get along, to be healthy and happy. And uh, we hit it out of the park. Um, a grand slam of us getting together multiple times. And everybody showed up, we partied, we played cards, we played darts, we shared, we opened gifts. It was a lot of fun. I really, really so grateful for that.

Speaker B: And I think uh, before we went on air, it's the duality of gratitude of those moments plus also those moments ending.

Speaker C: Yes sir.

Speaker B: I'm sure many, uh, that will resonate with, you know, the, the gratitude of spending that time and then the gratitude of just your space without afterwards post the, the uh, chaos of all of that beautiful uh, things. So to come to my last question, which as you know Tim is one around first. So when was the last time you did something for the first time and what was it?

Speaker C: So, um, again, back in the holidays, um, my, my church and uh, my family, we've participated uh, for almost 20 years in taking what we call food baskets, a couple uh, uh, sacks of groceries and a ham and some potatoes, uh, to Appalachia, Ohio, which is, uh, our Appalachia area happens to be in Ohio. It's a poorer area of the country. Disadvantaged, uh, people. Uh, when we feed, we take 650 of these, 650 families we help out. And the first time, for the, our last time, for the first time was this, this year we turned it completely upside down. The way that we pull together, we would always do, um, ask for food from the parishioners, you know, to bring in. So for several weeks they'd be Bringing the list of things that we've asked for to fill these baskets and uh, because of the changing times in the number of people that attend mass and that uh, are willing to contribute not only time but dollars. One of the guys had, he turned it upside down, said we're not going to collect any food. We're only going to ask for financial donations. If they've already got food, that's fine, we'll take it. We're only going to ask for financial donations. Um, and we're going to set what the bar is. And the reason is because then we can better um, manage the food that we're getting. It's going to come on pallets, it's going to be streamlined. And it was a huge fundamental shift from, you know, from decades of saying, everybody bring food in, don't bring any food. Here's the, here's the QR code, make your donation here. And it worked out fantastic.

Speaker B: You know, completely different logistics.

Speaker C: We had to change, you know, be mental flexibility to, I mean to look at it differently. We had to unlearn the way we've done it for decades and decades, I mean across the board from not only the initial receiving um, of the goods but also the distribution of it. And we literally save so much time and so much money doing it this way. And we fulfilled, most importantly, we fulfilled the 650 and families were blessed and so thankful. So that was. I couldn't wait to share this with you because it's in so much with what we do, so many examples of our sub dimensions that uh, we have to work through and it worked out successfully.

Speaker B: I love that story, Tim. And just this with the clarity of a vision, uh, you know, that gave their new pathways to how to solve it. Right. We still want to serve this community in this, this outcome. But what could be different routes to dealing with that and what could be some amazing unexpected learnings along the way of that. Right. And that starts a new chapter, a new chapter for next year as you go through. And I wonder for how many of us listening to this, are we doing things on repeat? How many things are we doing on repeat? Because we have muscle memory and we have mental memory and we, we know the outcome, we know that piece and that's just safe place for us. Where can we find the opportunity of what's on repeat? Going to a renew and a rethink. And I think that's a uh, beautiful way to you know, end this episode and begin the year, uh, with this thinking of. And I'll give a Quick example from mine. If I maintain we have a rhythm in our organization. You talked about starting calls with gratitude.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Positive focus. We have a rhythm of meetings. So does every organization. Right. Uh, of different things. Ours are inspired. You know. The majority of our operating model is from Traction, um, by Gino Wickman. And so we have these cycles, 90 day cycles. We have our VTO which is vision Traction Organizer, our rocks, these key goals. And we have level 10 meetings. We have you know, all these things stand up every Monday. We have then a happy hour on Thursday. And I want to reimagine how we do our meetings, which ones and when and I want to cut them down and I want to make them more efficient and more fun uh this year. And that's a commitment that I want to inspire our team to rethink uh, from. We've been on repeat for four years of many of these things and I want to rethink uh, what we're doing and how we're doing it in those ah, to open up space for creativity and innovation.

Speaker C: I uh, know you're changing up the cadence of meetings that we have as a partner.

Speaker B: Yeah, we are.

Speaker C: But I'm glad that you're ah, also introspection there internally. Yeah. That's fantastic. Can I share one idea with you on that?

Speaker B: Go for it. Yes please. Yeah.

Speaker C: M Within attraction model. I know this might not fit exactly but consider uh, since you have enough depth on the team that every month or whatever the cadence of the meeting is, somebody else runs it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: To get that experience and variety.

Speaker B: Just tonight we have uh, so on Monday Stand up we have a cycle where every single member of the team host the stand ups on Mondays. Um, so they know the protocol, they have to go through a positive focus, you know, weekly planner, what are the achievements, the three crucials for the week and it's Tim's go this week and then it's you know, um, different people's goes. So we do do that um, and it's a great part of onboarding as well. When a new team member comes in and they know within the first six weeks they've got to host one uh, of those sessions. But there are other sessions that do have a tendency of who hosts where we could apply it more, um, and maybe bring in somebody who is not in that department, not in that area to come and host naively, you know, uh, more tech product being led by marketing or being led by someone else and just see what happens. Right. See what mess we create and what beauty we create that could be fun. Yeah, I like that. Well, Tim, it's been an absolute pleasure. I always look forward to our conversations. Um, I had no idea other than a rough plan of our conversation, but I hope that you enjoyed it. I hope our listeners enjoyed it, because I certainly did.

Speaker C: Thank you. Uh, and thank you listeners and thank you for all who are supporting AQ and aqai. Let's go change the world.

Speaker A: Do you have the level of adaptability to survive and thrive the rapid changes ahead? Has your resilience got more comeback than a yo yo? Do you have the ability to unlearn in order to reskill, upskill and break through? Find out today and uncover your adaptability profile and score your AQ. Visit aqai IO to gain your personalised report across 15 scientifically validated dimensions of adaptability. For a limited time, enter code PODCAST65 for a complimentary AQME assessment transforming the way people, teams and organizations navigate change. Thank you for listening to this episode of Decoding aq. Please make sure you subscribe on your favorite podcast directory and we'd love to hear your feedback. Please do leave a review and be sure to tune in next time for more insights from our amazing guests.