Decoding AQ with Ross Thornley Feat. Dane​​​​ Groeneveld - The Future of Teamwork

Speaker A: Hi and welcome to decodingaq. Helping you to learn the tools, mindsets and actions to thrive in an ever changing world.

Speaker B: Hi and welcome to the next episode of Decoding aq with me again, another live from Vegas. Uh, recording. I have Dane Bruneville who is a podcast host, so hopefully I'm going to get some tips for you today. He is the, ah, CEO of Leader, founding partner, Hubble3 Group, where he's shaping the future of tea work and human capital. So we're going to find out a bit more about that, how that really shows up and exploring how social and technological change can unlock the potential of clients and businesses. So welcome to the show.

Speaker C: Thanks, Ross.

Speaker B: Good to hear.

Speaker C: What a groovy outfit.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm loving the jacket and the. So what's the. What's the shirt?

Speaker C: It's actually little skiers, like ski badges and, um, wolves. Few wolves, yeah.

Speaker B: Okay, tell me the story behind it. Where did you buy it?

Speaker C: My mom buys all my good shirts. Uh, so I grew up in the mining industry and then I've spent a lot of my time in the oil and gas industry. So pretty bland dress code.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So as soon as I got the opportunity to be working with teams and then people, leaders, I was like, I'm going for it.

Speaker B: You're going for it? Yeah, I love it. So do you have a favorite shirt?

Speaker C: Uh, no, I kind of cycle through. Okay.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, go through phases and yeah, right now this is definitely one of the good ones.

Speaker B: And jackets, you know, I had a jacket I absolutely loved. It's a lovely Ted Baker jacket. The other side saw. Really beautiful. And I went to an event, I must have left it there, and I have just given it into an II Somewhat lucky. But it. Yeah, it was traumatic at the time. Yeah. But, yeah, it changes how you feel.

Speaker C: Like, it totally does. Gives you pop. I like funny shoes, funny colored trousers. I think I grew up a little bit of time in England too, and I think the English eccentricity kind of brings something human forward at the right time.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So have you always been. You said, you know, oil and gas. Were you the person who stood out in the way that you dressed, or this has now allowed you to adapt?

Speaker C: Well, I was. Yeah. I wasn't allowed to stand out in my early career. I didn't even have a choice between brown shoes or black shoes. It was black shoes, black belt, white shirt.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker C: Um, and then I think over time, uh, I got to realize that dressing up like costumes as well. Yeah. Just brings different edge out of people. So I Kind of always like to bring a little bit more fun and play to teams, and I think this is an easy way to do it.

Speaker B: So do you use that part of your work in terms of your innovation workshops? Obviously, all that show up.

Speaker C: So I've always found, like, the way that we do work, uh, is very, uh, indicative of, like, who's on the team and the energy that you can create, sustain and ville. And so my personal style is I don't like to be too planned out. I like to kind of be a little bit more impromptu, ad hoc in the moment and to just hold that curiosity for everyone to kind of get around and play with. So whether that's bringing a customer team into a restaurant and doing sort of some questions around, well, how's the chef picking produce and M menu and managing the whole experience? I find that's fascinating to learn from those environments. I love it when the team's going through a big moment of change and you're like, let's just get together and get on the whiteboard. It's easy to get Excel reports and studies, but let's just get on the whiteboard and see what is just instinctively intuitive, coming intuitively coming up from our people.

Speaker B: So, Dame, is there a moment in your own career when you turned left?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Turn right for you. What played a part in that decision making for you?

Speaker C: It's a good question. I think I was lucky in the middle part of my career today, so about 10, 15 years ago, to work with some, um, great leaders who were, uh, taking on really bold tasks like opening a business in a new country or supporting a brand new project. And we got to go in with a very blank canvas and say, well, how are we going to position who we are? How are we going to understand what the real problem is? Like, how do we not just sell the product we're known for? Uh, and so a couple of my bosses at the time were just like, post it note junkie. And that just kind of. I found it easy to engage with, and I found it fun. So I think I've just kept leaning into the fun whenever we got thrown a new challenge, whether it was within our business or with our customers. And the more I've leaned into that, I started my podcast three years ago and got to meet all of these different people doing cool things in different ways. So I'm inclined to think, um, that actually solving problems is, uh, far more about who's in the room and what energy.

Speaker B: How do you hold that space?

Speaker C: How do you hold the space?

Speaker B: So it Sounds like it was a series of accumulating events that has led to it rather than a big trigger moment.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay. I am changing career, I'm doing these things.

Speaker C: So it involved, it's been, it's been incremental for sure. Big Bang. I think the cool moment when I joined, uh, what's now the Huddle 3 group, family owned business and they started in 1995. So we, um, we did a 20 year reunion or uh, kind of look back on the business. Um, in fact it was 25 years, it was 2020, just before October. And we were like, what's the theme of our event going to be? And we picked Toy Story because it's the first CGI film, uh, in 1994. Was it 95? 95.

Speaker B: Was it?

Speaker C: So I dressed our founder up as Woody Brian Hughes, who must have at the time been like 78. And then I dressed up in an inflatable Buzz Lightyear outfit. And you know, I think that was when I really leaned in and realized that I had the license to uh, be playful. Yeah.

Speaker B: Have you ever come across working with clients where they sign up for that, but then the reality when they're experiencing

Speaker C: there's some friendship tense and it's tense.

Speaker B: Uh, how do you deal with that situation?

Speaker C: It's a good question. Um, I think it's about increasing the tolerance level before you start the work. So I think going in and doing a little bit of a kickoff conversation, providing some materials, maybe some exercises ahead of actually getting into the day helps, um, people realize what they're signing up for and then being really clear about the objective or the outcome because people are naturally. We've been growing up and you've been growing up in this world where like work's a serious thing and people naturally have this kind of conditioning that, well,

Speaker B: should be hard, should be difficult, should be serious.

Speaker C: Absolutely. So it's like, how do you show them we're still going to do real work? Uh, we're going to bring real outcomes, but we're going to unlock a different part of our collective energy.

Speaker B: Is so smart about Lego Serious Play. The name of having this playful, uh, approach to serious.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker B: So what is something that we're working on at the moment that you really engage with and you decided to give us a picture of, from that kind of theory of, ah, what problem are you in is solving and is using this approach?

Speaker C: Um, I've been doing some really cool work with, uh, Dr. Andre Martin. He wrote the book Rob Fit Right Fit okay. And uh, he's all about restoring energy to teams. And I think energy is a big part of health in a team. So we're going in and actually putting a lot of the technology aside and we're saying just very simply, what is creating energy in a team and what's draining energy? And then we're playing in and around those kind of pieces of the puzzle of revive. Um, and that can be something as simple as you know, doing like a napkin pitch competition with some ladies in the business, um, around. How do we do better onboarding for example? Because a lot of people through Covid lend into technology, lend into remote work and onboarding became more of an energy draining moment than an energy restoring moment. So once you realize the problem it's like, well, how do we bring energy to it? And who's our real audience, who's the real customer of onboarding? And I find that that type of thinking gets you away from what's our current documentation, what's our current tooling and just back to the human trail on that.

Speaker B: And do you find that works, uh, for a certain type of challenge where there is energy and excitement? What about when it's something by nature, they might not have competency, might not have capability and actually it does provide energy because it's difficult and it's hard, but it needs to be done. Is there a way that you can uh, use that or. No, we do it in this place.

Speaker C: It's a good point. I mean we do do a lot of work in the biotech market where there is a lot of science and regulatory rigor. Um, and I would say we tend to do more of our work with the, the HR and sales functions of those businesses. However, when we are working with the more scientifically minded individuals, we are still bringing them into elements at this place. We hope to do more of that. I think my view is if we can equip the uh, HR leaders, the commercial leaders, the executive teams with some of these tools, then they can bring it into their tough work in the right way. You can't grab someone who's got a deadline and throw them into a two day off site and hope that they're going to be relaxed and reims.

Speaker B: So many people have their go to, go to frameworks, go to tools they use. I always use the uh, where good ideas happen video to do this bit. I always like using the 3, 5, 10 method for this. This is what it is. Do you have a few favorites that um, are uh, frameworks or thinking tools that you often use?

Speaker C: Yeah, there's a few that I always like to go to, um, I love to use mural as a tool because I just love to get visual and get people interactive. And one thing that I love to do on mural is question storming because so the traditional brainstorm, when you're just trying to get people, you know, saying what it is that may be on their minds, that something that we could do better or something that's causing problems, it's actually very dangerous. I find going to psychological safety, like I'm going to say something that might upset Bob or Jenny over here. And so I find rather than being precise with a brainstorm of like what's going wrong, what's going right. Like what questions should we be asking ourselves as a team? And maybe you frame it. What questions should we be asking ourselves that may be slowing us down as a team? And by framing questions you allow people to get the kind of the landscape together without starting to get into the tougher points. And I think it just creates some flow.

Speaker B: I like that. Have you come across the framework. Excuse me. How might we.

Speaker C: I like that. Yeah, it's a very similar uh, a

Speaker B: way of framing questions. We've used it. I think it was uh, developed originally uh, PNG of how might we. Really powerful how there might be a solution to it. Yeah, might. There could be. And we. It's collaborative together. So when we're you know, doing question storming like that neural very able to be hybrid visual, all of those sorts of things. And then the way we frame question because what I fail is often questions are a, uh, goal masquerading, uh as a question or they're a statement uh, masquerading as a question or they're a solution masquerading as a question. Actually asking good questions is a skill.

Speaker C: It's a total skill.

Speaker B: And uh, so do you help them through that process when you're question stalking of how to ask a question. So how uh, to frame good questions or do you just allow them the space?

Speaker C: Well, I think we'll coach back into the zone in the live call. So we'll generally set the questions, set the talk tone and then if we're starting to go off track a little bit, we'll bring it back in with some kind of, you know, guiding statement. Absolutely. Or, or just ask another question. Because if someone's getting stuck on it, asking them a different question so that they come at it from a different.

Speaker B: Have you got a story where horribly wrong. Was there a situation where in horrible wrong. Tell me more about that. Not to bring up old trauma But I'd love to learn from that.

Speaker C: Another framework I like to use is this post Delta exercise where I get a team of people together, five to seven people, and we just say, what is it that Ross does really well? And we just bang it out. Ross isn't allowed to talk. And then what is it that he does that slows us down? You put those two columns in place and then we start to ask questions around, well, what one or two things could Ross do that maximize on the strength or minimize on the weakness to get us to our objective? That one's blown up on me a few times in Mural because, um, someone doesn't like what they're hearing. Yeah. So as much as you give them the instruction, hey, we're just throwing it out there right now. We're not going to litigate. They want to litigate. Or someone says something that's truly insensitive, like, well, Henri over here is French. And it's just like, well, that's not helpful. Now we've got an HR issue in the room too. Right. So I think being careful around how you frame the exercises and how you treat the misbehaviors, which, uh, which are going to happen. We are human. Um, is, is definitely, uh, one to watch.

Speaker B: I think it's interesting because it starts with, uh, with truth.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Understanding what truth is. You know, we have subjected truth. Yeah. We have provable, repeatable truths through scientific evidence and endeavor. Yeah. We have truth. That is a moment any time in something. We have a, you know, a variety of truths. Right. Yeah. He's French.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay, well, what is that around that? Are we then assuming a bias that that is good or bad or a, uh, behavior that's showing up that we're associating with French? So do we have a HR issue or now we're looking at language of communication and what's showing up there that is the great value and opportunity of being French? Oh. It's how passionate he is, how he is with his language if he loves diving into whatever it might be. Yeah. And so I guess that's the art of facilitation.

Speaker C: I think it is. And if you ask the wrong follow on questions, you could just m. So it's like you've got to kind of know your audience and you've got to know where your strength is in guiding them on that path.

Speaker B: Uh, and I guess that's the best way to learn.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: You learn out loud. Uh, you figure out when it goes right.

Speaker C: Wrong.

Speaker B: And that's part of adaptability.

Speaker C: Totally.

Speaker B: You Know how long? No, I need a duvet, um, and a week. Loads of ice cream to recover from that one. Because that was a hang grenade. A couple. Complete buster. Yeah. Or no, um, I'm done five minutes later, and I'm able to move. Move through that. And I guess that's a, um. A really good experience for teams to go through is managing confidence. Right. Managing the tough, the joppy, the difficult, the misinterpretations, the misunderstoods. Yeah. Um, do you tend to do any work in that when that shows up, or you stay to the overarching thing, which is more about innovation or business outcome? Huh. So do you get involved in conflicts, in resolutions, in. Hey, Bob, Sally, that's really great. Let's. Let's work on that together. Do you get it in the moment or do you work?

Speaker C: Uh, my experience, both. My favorite, if you can get a team to be doing some coaching ahead of time and then you do a workshop, immersion, whatever it is, and you have one or two of the coaches in the room as coaches, I think, and you've created enough room in your agenda. I think it's great to be able to say, hey, we just saw that interaction and that misalignment. Let's create the right space to have a healthy conflict. But I found it works best if you have a coach there. I think if you, as a facilitator, uh, of a day, try and jump into coach.

Speaker B: Derail.

Speaker C: Totally derail.

Speaker B: Derail pretty quickly.

Speaker C: And if you've got a big group and you're dealing with the conflict between these two people and everyone else is

Speaker B: isolated, saying, what's going on here? Where's the ban? So I think that's an interesting, uh, balance in the design. Yes. Of the day. Of not belittling what's gone on. Use it. Here's a learning moment versus. Okay. That's going to derail us on those things or whatever. So I think it's an interesting challenge, especially, um, where we're dealing with these things remotely.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, it adds a new flavor to that. Right. Uh, the engagement, the disconnect with neural. It gives you the opportunity to do these things. Remember, I know some facilitators who work and say, I will not do hybrid. Where there's some people in the room, some people, you know, at distance. I'm happy to do one or all in or all out. Have you. Do you do both?

Speaker C: Yeah, we'll do both. I prefer all in or all out.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Okay. Um, more. The interaction with the mural tool in those examples is Easy.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's the easy part.

Speaker C: But it's the vocals. It's the conversations that are happening with the in room group that are really hard. And then depending on where your out of room group are, uh, like have they got the time and space? Like if the builder just turned up or the kids just got home from school. Like if we're doing really important work, particularly more playful stretch work, then you really want them to have that space. So I'd prefer that they're in a day office at a rework or something like that.

Speaker B: I, I certainly love it when it's in person. But I'd like the magic tool of the come back from the breakout rooms with one click. Ah.

Speaker C: In terms of control.

Speaker B: Control, you're back in the room to. If I can have that magically, uh, in person, that'd be a beautiful beach, right?

Speaker C: Yeah, it would be. It would be. But I like for that purpose, I like giving people roles. If I'm facilitating a group, it's just like your job, your the time club. So you're going to be really uncomfortable with some people telling them that it's time to move on and you're going to do it. Like don't put that on me as the facilitator. We've all come here. This is our working agreement. And then I also like to have someone who going back to that conflict in the room, someone who owns the parking lot. And they're like, hey, Ross Dane, sounds like you guys are getting into it. Can we put that on the parking lot and come back to it later today or in a sidebar conversation? Because it's important but it's going to distract us from where we're going. But you give that job to someone in the room. I like that. And I find that that creates, uh, a bit of not just empowerment but like increased engagement.

Speaker B: You know, I've just had an idea. Uh, I've got a workshop coming up.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And uh, those sort of core roles of how I might do that. And I just had an idea of, uh, attaching those rolls to the chair randomly.

Speaker C: Yeah. Right.

Speaker B: Go and check it. And then when they have it, they have a choice. You can own it or delegate it.

Speaker C: Like it.

Speaker B: Uh, yeah, I'm the time card.

Speaker C: Or I'm.

Speaker B: Whatever it is. I don't understand what it is.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: I'll own it. Or no, I'm going to give it to Steve. Yeah. Or whatever. It'd be a bit playful with that. I'm going to give that.

Speaker C: And here's another hat on playful.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Um, not everyone loves hats or wigs or costumes, but on the day you can even give someone like a symbol that sits in front of them on their desk. But give them some like, physical artifact of their role in the room. Like someone could be a symbol.

Speaker B: A symbol.

Speaker C: It just helps keep bringing people into. We're here for a purpose. We're going to.

Speaker B: It's a collective objective, not the responsibility of the external coming in.

Speaker C: Correct. Who. Yeah, I like that.

Speaker B: All right. Um, there's a question I've been asking in every episode as it comes to the. The end part. Ah. And it's a homage to our very first episode we had Dr. Diane Hamilton, who is all about curiosity. And the question is, when was the last time you did something for the first time?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And what was it?

Speaker C: Oh no, that's a really good question. Last I,

Speaker B: um.

Speaker C: One that's actually really resonating with me lately is that I went and coached an older age group in rugby. So I've coached rugby teams before, my son's teams. But I went up. I was coaching the UA teams and the U16s.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: And it was game changing. It was very different. I was in very uncomfortable. I'm continuing to work through why, but it sparked some curiosity as to what was going on there and it made me think very intentionally about, well, how am I showing up and how is this kind of resonating?

Speaker B: What does Dane need to become in that environment?

Speaker C: Correct. And I'm not the shouty type, but what I noticed is, particularly coaching rugby here in America, is that, uh, football coach mentality of really getting on the camp players. And that's not the way I've grown up coaching. So I found it very confronting. Interesting.

Speaker B: And what's your reflection of that as you think about it in terms of what's showing up for you when you think about it

Speaker C: really? Interestingly, I think one thing that's showing up, um, and it's something I've been working through with my son lately, is this whole sense of, uh, worth and value. So like, for me, I was a good sportsman growing up. I actually moved to England at the high school age, so I was playing first 15 rugby, first 11 cricket. And that was a big part of my identity at that age group that I'm now coaching these boys at. Uh. And it almost took me back to there. Like, am I fighting with these kids that I'm coaching for?

Speaker B: Like, you know, identity that you have.

Speaker C: Correct.

Speaker B: And you're passage.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: To impose that sense of experience, of expectation Setting in others.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Interesting.

Speaker C: So it's like a really, for me, it was a wonderful moment, but a very like, revealing, revealing mode. Um, so, so yeah, I'd be talking to my son a lot about that because he's, I think he's 13 now. Right. Uh, and what we're seeing, I think with our, uh, youth is that they're under all of this pressure to go out and achieve much more so than I think we grew up with. Um, and they're attaching a lot of their own self worth with their results academically, musically, sports. Yeah. And so I think I'm already triggered both from my own experience at that age, but also from like what I'm seeing him enter into in this kind of adolescence. It was just, it was. And it continues to be a very cool experience.

Speaker B: So if people to reach out, get in touch, they've been interested about your shirt, where you got it from, or your mom, uh, how do they get in touch?

Speaker C: Uh, I'm all about LinkedIn, so, uh, it'll be Dane with a kangaroo Gruneveld, so you won't miss me. Uh, and the future of Teamwork podcast is where I get to have great conversations like this with new friends and thought leaders. Um, so that would be the best places to, uh, go and follow it

Speaker B: to go and find you.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you, Dane.

Speaker C: Likewise.

Speaker A: Do you have the level of adaptability to survive and thrive the rapid changes ahead? Has your resilience got more comeback than a yo yo? Do you have the ability to unlearn in order to reskill, upskill and break through? Find out today and uncover your adaptability profile and score your AQ. Visit Aqai IO to gain your personalized report across 15 scientifically validated dimensions of adaptability. For a limited time, enter code PODCAST65 for a complimentary AQME assessment. Transforming the way people, teams and organizations navigate change. Thank you for listening to this episode of decodingaq. Please make sure you subscribe on your favorite podcast directory and and we'd love to hear your feedback. Please do leave a review and be sure to tune in next time for more insights from our amazing guests.