Deans Counsel · 2026-05-15 · 24 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
56 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Stanley Ikenberry shares hard-won insights from decades leading complex research universities and the higher education sector. Recorded one week before his passing, this conversation captures his philosophy on presidential leadership centered on authenticity, listening, and environmental design. Rather than focusing on personal achievement, Ikenberry emphasizes walking outside yourself, understanding multiple stakeholder agendas, and creating institutional cultures that nurture integrity over hidden motives. He discusses practical tactics like using different office furniture arrangements (desk, conference table, sofa) to shift meeting dynamics, walking campus to read environmental signals like graffiti and student demonstrations, and distinguishing between talent with defensive qualities versus those comfortable in their roles. His approach to talent development involved visiting candidates at their home institutions, surrounding himself with specialists like business officer Craig Bazani who offered unvarnished counsel, and using every interaction to communicate institutional values. For current university presidents and provosts navigating stakeholder complexity, Ikenberry's framework of servant leadership and situational awareness offers timeless counterweight to transactional management.
Stanley Ikenberry emphasizes learning to listen, walking outside yourself so you're not the center of attention, and understanding why different people seek access to your office - reconciling their multiple agendas with institutional needs rather than personal ones.
Ikenberry used different zones deliberately: the sofa for intimate exploration of undefined situations, the round conference table for decision-making, the desk for formal matters. Leaving the desk to shake hands disarms visitors, while the sofa placement creates closeness that beats the intimidation of the conference table.
Ikenberry visited candidates at their home institutions to observe their operating environment and comfort level in their current role, rather than meeting them in his office. He also valued people like business officer Craig Bazani who offered unvarnished, selective advice rather than those overly eager to please or defensive about their role.
He believed every interaction with staff communicates institutional values and expectations; by consistently reacting to and choosing what to reinforce or discourage, he shaped how people understood campus culture and what he was building, turning ongoing communication into leadership development.
Walking across campus to meetings rather than being driven, observing physical signals like graffiti and demonstrations, and being visible enough that students and staff recognize you allows leaders to keep their finger on the institutional pulse and encourages people to raise issues directly.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode contains some genuinely useful leadership observations - particularly around office seating arrangements, listening vs. self-centeredness, and hiring practices - but much of the content consists of gentle storytelling and reflection rather than dense, novel insight. The advice offered (managing agendas, creating intimacy in meetings, walking around campus) is sensible but not particularly actionable or surprising for experienced operators.
try to walk outside of yourself so that it doesn't either become as if you're the center of attention
depending upon what the situation was, but where you choose to sit changes the whole environment. If you sit at the conference table, you're there for a decision or problem solving. If you sit on the couch, you're there to let things unfold
The leadership principles discussed - servant leadership, environmental design, listening, and talent development - are well-worn in academic and organizational contexts. While Ikenberry's specific examples (desk vs. sofa, walking campus, vetting hires at their home institutions) have some freshness, the underlying frameworks echo conventional wisdom. There is minimal contrarian thinking or first-principles reasoning.
create an environment which nurtures Integrity and Authenticity, as opposed to focusing on a hidden agenda
learning to listen in these jobs and figure out, why are these people in here?
Stanley Ikenberry is genuinely credentialed: he was the longest-serving president of the University of Illinois at a pivotal growth period and later led the American Council on Education - a rare combination of deep operational experience and sector leadership. The hosts frame this as a posthumous recording, adding historical weight. However, this is a reflective retrospective rather than a current operator addressing live challenges, which slightly limits immediate relevance for sitting deans facing today's pressures.
at 44 as the youngest and over time, the longest serving president of the University of Illinois
leadership roles, formerly culminating as the president of the American Council on Education
While Ikenberry provides concrete details about his office setup and specific hiring anecdotes (visiting Penn, the business officer Craig Bazani), he offers almost no quantitative data, budget figures, enrollment metrics, or measurable outcomes from his tenure. The examples are illustrative but lack the specificity and evidence that would let operators understand *how* his strategies translated to results or scaled impact.
I had my. Desk, and I had a small round table that would have been maybe six feet in diameter, and then I had a sofa
the business officer, God. The name of Craig bazani was, he was, in no way an intellectual, just a good business officer
The hosts ask reasonable open-ended questions and allow Ikenberry space to reflect, but they rarely challenge him, probe deeper into contradictions, or push back on claims. The conversation is reverential and anecdotal rather than investigative. Follow-ups tend to affirm rather than dig - e.g., when Ikenberry says he visits candidates at their home institutions, no one asks whether this approach actually predicted hiring success or if he has counterexamples.
Have you ever had any regrets or second thoughts about a person you hired, and if so, what'd you learn from that?
Did you always know the agenda before the people came in the room?
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
In this rare and truly special edition of Deans Counsel, we are joined by the legendary Dr. Stanley Ikenberry. This posthumous publication was recorded earlier last season, just one week before his passing following a long and remarkable life. During the interview, as Jim Ellis and Ken Kring sit with an historic leader in American higher education, our co- host, Dave Ikenberry, is off mic quietly encouraging his dad to go easy on his humble moderators. We explore highlights of a career of service with lessons learned and shared from a few of the many initiatives that Stan Ikenberry led. You will hear how his lifetime of service, which included leadership roles formally culminating as the President of the American Council on Education, became a key contributor to Golden Era of higher education in the U.S. and the world. At 44, as the youngest and over time the longest serving president of the University of Illinois, he stepped up to lead the university through its most robust period of growth and development in what became the modern University of Illinois.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Dave Ikenberry 0:13 Welcome to Dean's Council, a podcast aimed at supporting university leaders holding one of the more critical jobs on a university campus. Your panelists, Ken Kring, Jim Ellis and davinberry, engage in conversation with highly accomplished deans and other academic leaders regarding the ever complex array of challenges that Deans face in one of the loneliest and most unique jobs in the academy. Ken Kring 0:38 Many of us are legends in our own minds, but there are few true icons whose legendary experience will endure in this rare and truly special archive edition of Dean's Council, we are joined by the legendary Dr Stanley o Ikenberry.
This posthumous publication was recorded earlier this season, just one week before his passing following a long and remarkable life, during the interview, as Jim Ellis and Ken Kring sit with an historic leader in American higher education, our co host Dave Ikenberry is off Mike quietly encouraging his dad to go easy on his humble moderators, We explore highlights of a career of service with lessons learned and shared from a few of the many initiatives that Stan Eikenberry LED.
You will hear how his lifetime of service, which included leadership roles, formerly culminating as the president of the American Council on Education, became a key contributor to the golden era of higher education in the US and in the world. At 44 as the youngest and over time, the longest serving president of the University of Illinois, Stan stepped up to lead the university through its most robust period of growth and development in what became the modern university of Illinois.
But you will also hear stories and anecdotes that reflect the character, humanity and ultimate accountability that guided him through good times and challenging ones. Having grown up with a father who was president of Shepherd College in West Virginia, where Stan eichenberry graduated himself, we were struck by the age old question, was it nature or nurture that led to this extraordinary career of service? No doubt they are intertwined. We encourage you to listen for yourself for insight along the way.
One thought we had for this conversation was, you know, sort of experiencing you as that as that person who was sort of able to bring a kind of insight and wisdom into sort of what's important in the role of leading a university today, and you're drawing from that experience. You know, we thought would be fun to just hear you both reminisce and think out loud about the importance of the, you know, sort of the balanced agenda, but yet also achieving an agenda. Stan Ikenberry 3:13 Sure.
Well, let's give it a shot. There is a, obviously a very diverse agenda, because the university is such a diverse institution, serving a society with a multiplicity of needs that run all the way from its economy and its agricultural productivity to the education of young students and so forth. So the diversity of what goes on, not just in teaching and research and public service, but you know within that, there are a number of tentacles. Most of that a president doesn't touch on a daily basis, but some of it you do if there's a crisis or a serious question about whether to turn left or turn right.
But nonetheless, that's what makes the job so exciting every day a new one. Jim Ellis 4:27 If you were to look at the role of the President today and look at the people that were in these roles, what would be in your mind, the really, the one or two most important characteristics that a leader? I mean, there's so much change going on in today's world, but there was change going on when you were sitting in in your seat as well. I mean, what would you what would be the most important characteristics that that a leader needs to exhibit in a university setting today, in your mind, Stan Ikenberry 4:59 I think.
The major thing is try to walk outside of yourself so that it doesn't either become as if you're the center of attention, or that, in fact, you are the center of attention, or if you're not the center of attention, damn well better be, I think, learning to listen in these jobs and figure out, why are these people in here? Why do I want them in here? But why do they want to be here and reconciling those two elements? I don't know that makes any sense or not, but everybody comes in with multiple agendas.
You know, they want to get close to the office. They want to get your ear and you want to work through them to get things done. So it goes both ways Jim Ellis 6:08 that really is interesting. I i can imagine that when you're sitting there, you're trying to figure out, is their agenda an individual agenda, or is it an agenda that would be appropriate for the entire institution?
And you have to sort that out first before you can decide which way to go, right? Stan Ikenberry 6:25 Yeah, if it's their individual agenda, I'm probably not all that interested. I mean, I'm glad to talk about their career or whatever, but it's the what you know, everybody, unfortunately, wants to use the presidency to achieve their own ends, and if you've got a dean in the president's office, you know reasonably well Why he's there. He's very likely there for money, Jim Ellis 7:02 surprise, Dave Ikenberry 7:05 surprise.
Stan Ikenberry 7:08 On the other hand, he's also there and should be there to establish and maintain a long, enduring, healthy relationship. So focusing on the latter, I think, is the most important thing, and that then carries you through the points of confusion as to what's going on here. Ken Kring 7:34 You know, it's interesting in 1979 when most of us had little knowledge or experience about higher education or higher education leadership. You were named president at 44 years of age.
I mean, curious to think with these pearls of wisdom that you're sharing with us, what did you know then, and how did you step into that role, and how did you learn what you've learned? Great Jim Ellis 8:04 question. Stan Ikenberry 8:05 Well, I came on very early for whatever reason, in an administrative role of one kind or another at West Virginia, I was a dean, and that taught me a lot. A Dean's job is a great job.
To get the full picture of you really running things. You're recruiting faculty or hiring faculty, you're relating to alumni, you're raising money, you're doing all the things as a dean that you will later do in the presidential role, although you're usually doing them a little more directly and intentionally at the Dean's role, at the Presidential role, most of the time, you're creating an environment where all of this can take place and play out, and you can monitor it, but it has a force of its own.
You know, the people who were there in the room have something they want to get done and approach, and if you create the right environment and sort things out, and usually it will unfold itself. One of the key things is to create an environment which nurtures Integrity and Authenticity, as opposed to focusing on a hidden agenda, or agenda that's not so hidden, but you can solve a lot of serious problems if you really understand what the problem is. In my office, I had my. Desk, and I had a small round table that would have been maybe six feet in diameter, and then I had a sofa, and depending upon what the situation was, but where you choose to sit changes the whole environment.
If you sit at the conference table, you're there for a decision or problem solving. If you sit on the couch, you're there to let things unfold and try to figure out what this is all about. Why is this person here? And of course, if you've got something where the parameters are pretty clear and you just need to work out the solution to the problem, it's always best to be at the conference table.
Jim Ellis 10:54 Did you always know the agenda before the people came in the room? Stan Ikenberry 10:58 No, usually you have some idea, but very often you do not, or if you think you do, you're wrong. Jim Ellis 11:07 That makes perfect sense. That's interesting, because you really when you're sitting at the sofa, it's much more of a disarming thing to them, as opposed to the intimidation of sitting at the conference table Stan Ikenberry 11:19 and the desk.
Even more, Jim Ellis 11:21 even worse, yeah, Stan Ikenberry 11:22 yeah. Jim Ellis 11:23 And that's a very small step, yet it's so significant, you know, it's interesting the way you point that out, because it really is a small thing, but to that individual, they're going to feel the difference between those settings, yeah, Stan Ikenberry 11:35 one of the things you can create is intimacy, often my guest is sitting on the sofa. I'm sitting in a chair that immediately is adjacent to the sofa.
That is a more intimate form of communication, and better than taking them to the conference table. Although most of my official work, you know when I wanted to dictate some letters, that's the days in which we still did dictation with my secretary, or I wanted to get something else specific, I would either sit at my desk or at the conference table. But yeah, the setting makes a difference. If you're sitting behind a desk, there is a barrier there.
And almost always I would come up and get out from behind the desk and shake the person down, then maybe come back and sit there. But it was usually somebody I didn't know very well, and that I didn't necessarily want to get married to or whatever. Ken Kring 12:50 As a president of an extremely complex university system, you managed at high and low levels. How did you approach external meetings that you may not have been able to directly control but you needed to attend and participate in.
Stan Ikenberry 13:07 A lot of the meetings that you attend are ritualistic. For example, I did meet with members of the faculty senate maybe once a month, and those meetings were held not in my office per se, but in an adjacent space. But the key thing is to create an environment which is conducive to communication and authenticity believability, and not one that is characterized by fear or distrust or whatever. Jim Ellis 13:56 How many times did you ever have a meeting where you didn't even let them sit down and you just stood up and went face to face and had the meeting as quickly got him out of there.
Stan Ikenberry 14:06 Yeah, yeah. That wouldn't be the case for most visitors, but for my immediate staff, we had probably more stand up 62nd meetings than we did formal sit down. Yeah, Jim Ellis 14:23 did you do a lot of walking around on campus and meet and talk to students? Stan Ikenberry 14:28 Yeah, if I went to a meeting somewhere on campus, I would usually walk.
And I enjoyed, frankly, getting out and doing that. You see a lot of stuff. You see the graffiti, for example. Well, that's information, Ken Kring 14:51 yeah, yeah, Stan Ikenberry 14:53 these kids up to or often a demonstration going on.
Or whatever. So getting out and about, it is important to for you to see, but it's important also, frankly, to be seen. I don't know how many students actually knew me by sight, but a lot did, and I think that's important that they do know who you are, and creating some sense of presence with the environment. I think is important people will come up and raise an issue, and I think that's good.
You're keeping your finger on the pulse of the campus that way. Ken Kring 15:41 On a different topic, we also know you had countless successes, identifying, appointing, developing talent, and that you were sort of a talent magnet, if you will talk with us some about what you looked for. You know what qualities you've leaned upon and sort of how you how you you know what sort of guidelines you provided for talent as you brought them on to your team. Stan Ikenberry 16:13 One thing I did is I would usually go visit them on their home site.
So if they were provost at Penn, I would actually go there. And instead of having them come to Champaign Urbana, I would go there. And that would tell me a lot about the environment from which this individual was coming and how they were used to operating more than if we had a sit down meeting at Illinois. Have Jim Ellis 16:54 you ever had any regrets or second thoughts about a person you hired, and if so, what'd you learn from that?
Stan Ikenberry 17:00 It's hard to do that. I think one example that didn't turn out well, he was so bright, and he had the qualities that you like in a dean. That is to say, he was well respected, and had his personal act together and so forth, but he had a defensive quality about him. He was not completely comfortable in the role, so he tended to be overly cautious.
Jim Ellis 17:37 Interesting, interesting, wow, Ken Kring 17:40 I think that sort of understanding how you brought people along is also something we'd love for our listeners to be able to hear. Because clearly everyone you hire wasn't a superstar in the beginning, but you sure developed a lot of talent that became known for having been under the Stan Ikenberry umbrella. Stan Ikenberry 18:06 You know one example is that every time you touch or communicate with an individual, they're learning more about what you think, particularly about the campus culture and what kind of a place you're trying to put together, and what kind of place you're you're trying to avoid.
So there's a choices you make. Tend to communicate what you do, communicate what you think is important, and the reactions you make also suggest some level of importance. Yes, we're on the we're on the right track, or no, this is not where we want to go. I found it a joy by and large to work with the people I worked with, some of that group I worked with almost from my entire career, the business officer, God.
The name of Craig bazani was, he was, in no way an intellectual, just a good business officer, but if I had a problem or an issue to resolve or whatever, I found his advice, almost invariably, to be useful. And if he didn't have anything to offer, he just shrug his shoulders and leave Ken Kring 19:42 that said more about him or about you, but it's impressive you didn't get any garbage in there. Stan Ikenberry 19:48 No, he didn't want to make a mistake. He was not so much fearful of well, maybe you could say fearful of making a mistake.
Jim Ellis 19:59 But. Stan Ikenberry 20:00 But he very infrequently, walked into the lion's den to give me advice. But if he did, it was on something that was fairly important. And, you know, I'd have a meeting, and he'd be sitting in there in a small group of two or three or four people, and most of the time he'd have nothing, very little to say in the meeting, and very little to say after the meeting.
But often he did have something to say. You know, this guy's full of Davis waste. Ken Kring 20:38 I mean, those, those poor finance somehow they have to tell someone that their big idea isn't affordable Stan Ikenberry 20:45 or maybe not even desirable, but or the other thing they do is you're there with a third party, and the second party is trying to make a sale for you about a particular idea, and he was there as a third party to say, after they'd walk out the door, this guy's crazy.
Jim Ellis 21:18 Well, we have to tell you, we really appreciate this time that you spent with us. This has been great. Thank you so much. Stan Ikenberry 21:25 Well, thank you very much.
It's flattering to want to be talked to at this stage. Yeah, Ken Kring 21:30 been an honor and a joy for us, and we know our listeners will enjoy hearing these pearls of wisdom as well. Jim Ellis 21:37 Absolutely. Yeah, thank you.
Stan Ikenberry 21:40 Thank you for reaching out. Jim Ellis 21:50 So Ken, what did you think of what Stan had to say? Ken Kring 21:53 Jim, I'm just I'm just in awe. I mean, really an extraordinary conversation.
What was remarkable to me was the extraordinary sort of nuggets of common sense around servant humble servant leadership remarkable, I think the art of leadership is listening, walking outside of yourself, you know, sort of nurturing an environment where that values integrity. I just love some of the things that we learn and can forget and shouldn't forget. Jim Ellis 22:35 Yeah, I thought is practical thoughts and suggestions, like how to run a meeting, how to run short meetings, how to lead by walking around.
I mean, how many times did I learn a lot by walking across campus and meeting other campus leaders as well as students to understand just the environment we were working in and so practical and so thoughtful. That's just what we saw right there and heard was just exemplary, true leadership, in my opinion, Ken Kring 23:10 stands the test of time. I mean really remarkable in that regard. I mean even the idea around having the sofa and the small round table in the office.
I mean, just perfect, just really terrific. Jim Ellis 23:23 Exactly this. This was really worthwhile, and I'm looking forward to listening to it again. Quite honestly.
Ken Kring 23:29 Yep, Jim Ellis 23:30 pearls, very good, very good. Dave Ikenberry 23:32 Thank you for listening to this episode of Dean's Council. This show is supported in part by Korn Ferry leaders in executive search. Dean's Council was produced in Boulder, Colorado by Joel Davis of analog digital arts for a catalog of previous shows.
Please visit our website@deanscouncil.com if you have any feedback for us, please let us know by sending an email to feedback@deanscouncil.com and finally, please hit follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast player so that you can automatically receive our latest show. Transcribed by https://otter.
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