CS RevSpeak · 2026-08-03 · 19 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
51 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Customer success teams are optimized for coordination: running QBRs, scheduling touchpoints, pulling reports, and tracking action items. While this looks productive on dashboards, it's increasingly automatable and doesn't move customer businesses forward in ways customers couldn't achieve themselves. Angeline Gavino, a VP of CS turned executive coach, distinguishes between coordinating CSMs (activity-focused, safer, trained through playbooks) and advising CSMs (decision-focused, bringing points of view, shaping customer thinking). The shift requires three mindset changes - from process owner to outcome owner, from order-taker to perspective-holder, from helpful to valuable - plus three hard skills: business acumen, the ability to hold a perspective under pressure, and structured strategic thinking. Gavino works through concrete signals to spot coordination versus influence (how CSMs describe accounts, how they handle moments requiring positions, customer outcomes, and customer language), then provides specific coaching moves: reframing one-on-one questions from activity to intent, building big-wins reviews into team rituals, and recognizing influence over activity completion. CS leaders who don't operationalize this shift risk their teams becoming replaceable as automation commoditizes coordination work.
A coordinating CSM walks into calls with an agenda focused on status updates and action items, leaving the customer with an updated to-do list. An influencing CSM brings a perspective and recommendation about what the customer should do next, leaving them with a decision they wouldn't have made without that conversation.
Three reasons: coordination feels safer because it doesn't require taking positions or risking being wrong; it's what they're trained for through playbooks and onboarding built around process execution; and it's what gets recognized visibly in CRM metrics and dashboards, so CSMs optimize for visible activity.
Instead of 'How is the account doing?' ask 'Where is this account heading and what are you doing to influence that?' Instead of 'What are your next steps?' ask 'What decision are you trying to influence in your next conversation?' Instead of 'Are they happy?' ask 'Are they making decisions that move them toward their goals?'
Business acumen (understanding how the customer makes money, their growth priorities, and political dynamics), the ability to hold a perspective under pressure (disagreeing respectfully and staying in conversation when challenged), and structured strategic thinking (breaking down complex situations into clear assessments, recommendations, and trade-offs).
Listen to how CSMs describe accounts (activity-focused 'We had a QBR' versus dynamic 'Their CMO is under pressure by Q3'), how they handle positions (deferring versus recommending), customer outcomes (decisions moving business forward versus holding patterns), and customer language ('responsive' versus 'helps us think differently').
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode delivers a clear, well-structured framework distinguishing coordination from influence with concrete behavioral examples and practical coaching levers. However, the core insight - that CSMs should focus on shaping decisions rather than managing tasks - is not particularly novel for experienced CS leaders, and the execution feels more like articulate packaging of existing best practices than genuinely surprising premises. The specifics of *how* to build business acumen or structured strategic thinking remain relatively abstract.
How much of that work is actually shaping what the customer decides to do? How much of it is moving the customer's business forward in a way they couldn't have moved it themselves?
After the call ends, what changed? If the answer is we have an updated list of action items, that's coordination. If the answer is the customer made a decision they weren't going to make without the conversation, that's an influence.
The framing of coordination vs. influence is clean but not particularly fresh - the tension between transactional and strategic account management has been discussed in CS circles for years. The three reasons CSMs default to coordination (safety, training, recognition) and the three mindset shifts are logical but fairly conventional. The episode lacks contrarian takes or first-principles thinking; it largely confirms what thoughtful leaders already suspect rather than challenging assumptions.
Coordination is activity focused. Influence is decision focused.
The implicit message is that doing the activities well is the job.
This is a solo host episode with no guest. The host, Angeline Gavino, claims 17 years in B2B SaaS CS leadership and executive coaching experience, which is credible, but there is no guest interview to evaluate for caliber, seniority, or practitioner credibility.
I'm Angeline Gavino. I've spent 17 years leading customer success inside B2B SaaS, most recently as a VP of CS.
The episode includes one concrete case study (a CS leader whose team had high satisfaction but weak renewals, solved by asking CSMs to bring one new insight per conversation), but it lacks named companies, specific metrics, financial figures, or timelines. Most examples are illustrative and generic (e.g., 'a CSM tells a customer, I think you should change your rollout strategy'). The framework is supported by pattern observation rather than hard data or benchmarks.
I worked with a CS leader recently whose team was doing all the right things on paper. Strong QBR completion rates, good health scores.
And within a quarter, the quality of the conversations have shifted.
The host demonstrates strong self-aware questioning and signal-spotting (e.g., 'what changed after the call?'), and the structure is designed to move the listener through diagnosis and coaching action. However, this is a monologue rather than a dialogue, so there are no follow-ups, productive disagreements, or pushback from another party. The clarity and scaffolding of ideas is excellent, but the absence of conversation limits the opportunity for genuine intellectual friction.
Stop asking, how is the account doing? Start asking, where's this account heading? And what are you doing to influence that?
Here are the signals I'd watch out for.
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Most CSMs are stuck in coordination mode (e.g. running activities, managing tasks, and keeping things organized) when what their customers actually need is someone who can shape decisions, hold a perspective, and help them navigate ambiguity. This episode breaks down the most important capability shift happening in Customer Success right now: the move from coordinator to advisor . You'll learn what the difference actually looks like, why most CSMs default to coordination, what mindset and skills separate advisors from coordinators, how to spot where your team currently sits, and how to coach the shift through the conversations you're already having. Ways I Can Help You Level Up Customer Success: Value Realization Framework Online Course: Install a repeatable system your team can run: deliver value, prove outcomes, and drive retention and expansion. Self-paced with ready-to-use templates. Learn more . Newsletter: Practical, revenue-driven CS strategies in your inbox. No fluff. Subscribe here . 1:1 Coaching: Hands-on guidance to roll out value realization in your org. Book a free consult call . For more information, visit my website: Explore more resources and insights.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Think about how your CSM spend their time. Picture a typical week for one of your stronger people. They're running QBRs, they're scheduling check-ins, they're following up on action items, chasing down product teams for updates, they're pulling reports for renewal conversations, they're sending recap emails after every call. That's a lot of activity.
And on the surface, it looks like good work. But here's the question I want you to sit with. How much of that work is actually shaping what the customer decides to do? How much of it is moving the customer's business forward in a way they couldn't have moved it themselves?
Or is most of it coordinating motion that would have happened anyway? Because there's a difference between a CSM who coordinates and a CSM who influences. And most CSMs right now are stuck in coordination mode. They're running tasks instead of shaping decisions.
And most CS leaders are coaching them as task managers rather than advisors, because that's what's measurable. That's what's repeatable. And that's what the team's already doing. But the role has changed.
The customers our teams are serving don't need more coordination. They need someone who can help them make better decisions in environments where the answers aren't obvious. And the CS teams that figure out how to make that shift are the ones that will stay relevant as the function evolves. That's what we're talking about today.
Stick around because at the end, I'll share where the shift gets hardest and what kind of leadership work actually moves a team across that line. Welcome to the CS RevSpeak podcast. I'm Angeline Gavino. I've spent 17 years leading customer success inside B2B SaaS, most recently as a VP of CS.
And today I coach customer success leaders one -on-one on the exact challenges you're navigating right now. Everything I share in this podcast comes from time actually doing the work and time spent helping other leaders lead better. I talk about building credibility, turning customer success into a revenue engine, scaling your team and navigating to leadership challenges nobody prepares you for. Let's dive into today's episode.
Let's start by getting concrete about the distinction. Coordination is activity focused. A coordinating CSM walks into a customer call with an agenda built around what's happening, status of the implementation, open support tickets, upcoming milestones, action items from last time. They're moving the customer through a process.
They're making sure that things don't slip. Influence is decision focused and influencing CSM walks into a customer call with a point of view about what the customer should be doing next, why and what's at stake if they don't. They're not just running through a status update. They're shaping where the conversation goes.
They're surfacing a trade-off the customer hasn't thought about yet. They're recommending a course of action and helping the customer understand why it's the right one. Here's the ACS way to spot the difference. After the call ends, what changed?
If the answer is we have an updated list of action items, that's coordination. If the answer is the customer made a decision they weren't going to make without the conversation, that's an influence. Both have value, coordination matters, operational record matters, things falling through the cracks is a real cost. However, coordination is increasingly something that can be automated, systematized or pushed to digital touch.
Influence cannot. The value your CSMs uniquely bring to the customer relationship is the part that requires judgment, context and the ability to shape decisions in ambiguous situations. If that's not what your team is doing, you're going to find it harder and harder to justify their existence as the function evolves. So the question I want you to hold as we go through the rest of this episode is this.
What percentage of your CSMs customer interactions are actually shifting customer decisions in a meaningful way? And what's stopping them from making that the majority of the work? Before we talk about how to coach the shift, we need to understand why CSMs default to coordination in the first place. Because if you don't name what's pulling them there, no amount of coaching will move them.
There are three reasons CSM defaults coordination and all three need to be addressed. The first reason is that coordination feels safer. Influence requires having a point of view, taking a position and risking being wrong. If a CSM tells a customer, I think you should change your rollout strategy because the current one isn't going to get you to your Q3 goal and a customer pushes back, that's uncomfortable.
If a CSM just runs through the agenda and confirms next steps, nothing uncomfortable happens. Coordination is the path of least resistance because it never requires the CSM to be wrong in front of the customer. The second reason is that coordination is what they've been trained for. Most CSM training programs, most onboarding curriculums, most internal playbooks are built around process.
Run the QBR, update the success plan, drive adoption. The implicit message is that doing the activities well is the job. Nobody trained them to walk into a customer call with a hypothesis. Nobody coached them to take a position the customer might disagree with.
So they default to the work they were taught. The third reason is that coordination is what gets recognized. When a CSM keeps everything organized, hits their touch point cadence, runs every QBR and schedule, and has tidy notes in the CRM, they look like they're performing. When a CSM is doing the hard work of shaping a customer's thinking, that work is often invisible.
It doesn't show up in a dashboard, it's not in a playbook, and it's harder to evaluate. So CSM's optimized for what gets recognized, which is the visible work, which is coordination. The cost of staying in coordination mode is significant. Even if it's not obvious in the short term, coordinating CSMs build relationships that feel warm, but produce limited business impact.
They get plus in feedback and QBRs, but what should renewal scramble at the last minute? They have customers who like them, but who don't depend on them for actual decisions. And as automation and digital CS take over more of the coordination work, the CSM who never developed influence has a shrinking job description. This is a leadership problem as much as it is a CSM problem.
The CSMs are responding to the incentives, to the training, and the cultural cues you've created, even if you didn't mean to create them, which means the shift has to start with you as the CS leader. So what does it actually take to make the shift from coordinator to trusted advisor? It's not one thing. It's a mindset change supported by a set of specific skills, both of which need to be built deliberately.
So let's start with mindset. There are three mindset shifts that have to happen. The first is from process owner to outcome owner. Accordinating CSM thinks their job is to run the process well.
And advising CSM thinks their job is to make sure that the customer achieves the outcome. And the process is a tool they use, not the thing they're accountable for. That's a fundamentally different orientation. It means showing up to a customer call asking, what does this customer need to do to hit their goal?
Not, what's on my agenda for this meeting? The second is from order taker to point of view holder. Coordinating CSMs let the customer drive the conversation. They listen, they know what the customer wants, they take action items.
Advising CSMs come in with a perspective. They've thought about where the customer is, what's working, what isn't, and what they'd recommend. They're not waiting for the customer to ask, they're bringing it. The third is from being helpful to being valuable.
This one is subtle but important. Coordinating CSMs are helpful. They answer questions, they make connections, they smooth things over. Advising CSMs are valuable.
They make the customer's business better in ways the customer couldn't have done on their own. There's a difference and customers know it. Now let's talk about the skills. Three skills separate advisors from coordinators.
The first is business acumen. An advising CSM understands their customer's business well enough to have an informed point of view about it. How does this customer make money? What are their growth priorities?
What are the operational dynamics in their team or department? What's at stake politically? Without that context, you can't advise. The second is the ability to hold a perspective under pressure.
An advising CSM can disagree with the customer respectfully and stay in the conversation. They don't cave the moment a customer pushes back. They don't get defensive when the customer challenges their recommendation. They have the muscle to hold their point of view and explore the disagreement rather than retreat from it.
This is a skill that takes real practice to develop. The third is structured strategic thinking. Advising CSMs can take a complex customer situation and break it down into a clear assessment, a recommended path, and the trade-offs of getting it wrong. They can articulate their thinking.
They can make a case. They can move someone from confusion to clarity. That's not a soft scale. That's a hard scale and it requires deliberate development.
I worked with a CS leader recently whose team was doing all the right things on paper. Strong QBR completion rates, good health scores. Customers were rating CS engagement positively in feedback surveys. But when she looked at her renewal pipeline, something was off.
The customers who liked her team the most weren't necessarily the ones renewing cleanly. And the ones who were renewing cleanly weren't always the one with the warmest relationships. And when we dug into it, what we found was that her team had become really good at being liked and really bad at being needed or valuable. They were coordinating beautifully.
They weren't influencing anything though. So we built a coaching plan focused on one shift. Every customer interaction needed to leave the customer with something they hadn't thought before they walked in. It could be a perspective, a recommendation, a reframe, a trade-off that they hadn't considered.
And within a quarter, the quality of the conversations have shifted. Now, before you can coach the shift, you need to be able to spot which side of the line your CSMs are on. And it's not always obvious from the outside. Here are the signals I'd watch out for.
In your one-on-ones, listen to how your CSMs talk about their customers. Coordinating CSM describes their accounts in terms of activity. I had a QBR with them last week. They have two open support tickets.
We're working on the integration. The renewal is in March. That's a status report. On the other hand, an advising CSM describes their accounts in terms of dynamics.
Their CMO is under pressure to show ROI by Q3. They're behind in adoption because their internal champion got reassigned. I'm working on getting in front of the new stakeholder before the renewal conversation. That's the point of view.
Same account information, fundamentally different orientation. In customer calls, listen for how your CSMs handle moments where they could take a position. A coordinating CSM differs. Let me check on that and get back to you.
An advising CSM has a take. Based on what you've told me, here's what I'd recommend and here's why. Both responses can be appropriate at different times, but if every interaction defaults to deferral, you're looking at someone who's not bringing a perspective. Look at the customer outcomes.
Are your CSMs customers making decisions that move their business forward, or are they staying in a holding pattern that's just well-managed? Are renewal conversations strategic, or are they last minute negotiations? Is expansion happening organically because customers see devalue, or is it always sales job to push for it? The pattern of customer outcomes tells you a lot about whether your team is influencing or coordinating.
Listen to how your customers describe your CSMs. They're great, they're so responsive, they always get back to us. It is a coordinating signal. They really help us think about how to approach this is an influence signal.
The vocabulary the customer uses tells you what they're getting from their relationship. And honestly, listen to yourself. When you talk about your CSMs internally, to your peers, to your leadership team, to other functions, how do you describe their value? If you find yourself defaulting to descriptions of activity and responsiveness you may be unintentionally reinforcing the coordination mindset just by how you talk about your team.
Coaching a shift from coordination to influence isn't about adding a training program. It's about changing the conversations you're already having with your team. The questions you ask in your one-on -ones, the rituals you build into your team rhythm, and the work you recognize publicly, those are the levers that actually move behavior. So let's start with the one-on-one.
The most important coaching move you can make is to change the questions you ask. Stop asking, how is the account doing? Start asking, where's this account heading? And what are you doing to influence that?
The first question invites a status report. The second forces your CSM to take a position. You have to read where the relationship's going and tell you how they're shaping it. And when your CSM can answer it cleanly, that itself is the coaching moment.
It's a signal that they're managing the account without actually shaping it. Here's another. Stop asking, what are your next steps with this customer? Start asking, what decision are you trying to influence in your next conversation with them?
The first question is about activity. The second is about intent. And it gets your CSMs thinking about what they're actually trying to move, not just what they're going to do. Stop asking, are they happy?
Start asking, are they making decisions that move them towards their goals? Happiness is the wrong measure. Happy customers can still churn. Customers who are making good decisions because of your CSM's involvement are the ones who renew and grow.
The pattern across all of these is the same. You're shifting the unit of attention from activity to influence. And once you change the questions, your team starts to internalize the orientation. Because over time, the questions you ask in one-on-ones become the questions your CSMs ask themselves before customer conversations.
Beyond one-on-one, build influence-focused rituals into your team rhythm. One practice I'd strongly recommend is a big wins review as a standing part of your team meetings. Have your CSMs share one big win from the past week or month, but with a specific framing. What was the customer about to do?
What shifted? And what did the CSM do to influence that shift? Not just the customer renewed or reclose the expansion, but the specific moment where their thinking changed and the role that the CSM played in it. Over time, this builds a culture where influence is what gets celebrated and discussed, not just activity completion.
And your CSMs start showing up to customer conversations thinking about what win they want to bring back to the team, which means they show up trying to shape something, not just manage it. The most common pattern I see with CS leaders working on the shift is that they try to add new content, new training, new playbooks, new frameworks. When what actually moves the team is changing the existing conversations. The work isn't about more.
It's about asking different questions in the rooms you're already in. The shift from coordination to influence is one of the most important capability shifts in CS leadership. It's not just a skills upgrade. It's a fundamental redefinition of what CSMs are for.
The CS teams that make this shift become indispensable because customers genuinely make better decisions because of them. The teams that don't make the shift become increasingly replaceable. Coordination can be automated. Influence cannot.
Let's bring this together. First, understand the distinction. Coordination is activity focused. Influence is decision focused.
The test is what changed after the conversation. Is it an updated list of action items or a customer decision that wouldn't have happened without your CSM? Second, name why CSMs default to coordination. It's safer, it's what they've been trained for and it's what gets recognized.
Addressing all three is part of the leadership work. Third, build the mindset and the skills together. Mindset shifts from process owner to outcome owner, from order taker to point of view holder, from being helpful to being valuable. The skills that support those shifts are business acumen, holding a perspective under pressure and structured strategic thinking.
Fourth, learn to spot the difference. Listen to how your CSMs describe their accounts. Listen to how they handle moments that call for a position. Look at the pattern of customer outcomes.
The signals are there if you know what to look for. And fifth, coach the shift through the conversations you're already having. Change the questions in your one-on-ones. Build perspective focused rituals into your team rhythm.
Recognize and celebrate influence, not just activity. The shift from coordination to influence is one of those things that sounds simple as a concept, but is genuinely hard to operationalize on your team. Because it's not a process change, it's a leadership change. It requires you to see your team differently.
Coach them differently and recognize different work than you've been recognizing. And it requires you to be willing to sit with the discomfort of asking your CSMs to take positions, hold perspectives and risk being wrong in front of customers. That's the threshold where this episode stops being enough. The framework is here, but making it stick inside your specific team with the people you have, in the org dynamics you're navigating, that's the kind of work I do in my one-on-one executive coaching.
We'll look at where your team actually sits on the coordination to influence spectrum, identify the coaching moves that will move them and work through how to embed the shift into how you lead. If you want to work through that, head on over to csrevspeak.com forward slash coaching and schedule a consult call. The consult call is a 30 minute conversation where we talk through where your team actually is on the shift, where the biggest gaps are and whether one-on-one coaching is the right next step for you.
Let's talk about what you're navigating and how I might be able to help. Thanks for being here. I'll see you in the next one.
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