Nathan Siekierski - Webinars and live events that sell - Part 2

Speaker A: Hello. Bonjour, Nihau Comestas. Welcome to Champagne Strategy. Listen to this episode if you dare. But you've been warned. There's no going back. If I have to summarize here, you said, um, get the topic right, understand the customer first and their pain points, right? And then don't talk too much, much detail about the solution, but emphasize with them. Give them the pros and the cons. Give them an offer. Uh, you know, offer the solution over a period of time and then, and then sort of try to close them and follow up. But let's just put this in a specific context. So we're doing webinars for the first time. Sometimes people go, hey, they've got some ideas internally from different people inside the organization. Hey, we should do. We should cover this topic or we should really talk about xyz, right? So you're saying put a filter on that and make sure that that is the case. And then really simplify the offering. Uh, in terms of, sorry, how you communicate that as like a really simple sort of sentence. Like, does the head. Is the headline really important? The title of the webinar headline is super important.

Speaker B: The top of your funnel or whatever, wherever you're sending your traffic to, that headline and the video, I'd only pretend that's what you've got to get them on the webinar. I'd only pretend. I mean, you've got all this long form copy. And don't get me wrong, we work with some great people, but that is where most of it's going to happen there. Now, in order to do that, you need to go back a bit because you need to in the business go, what's the point of this? Like, why am I doing this? Like, literally, why am I doing this? So the, the only reason you should be in business, really, ah, and people will go crazy with this, is to try and get out of your business. And I don't just mean get out for automation. I mean sell it. That's the only reason you should be in your business, to grow it, to sell it. Now, if you get your business ready to sell, it's probably in the best shape it's ever been in its life anyway. Uh, if you really work at that. So you'll probably want to keep it. That's the irony of getting a business ready to sell, that when it's ready to sell, it's good to keep. But at least you have a choice. So what's your bigger. What's your bigger goal in your business? Let's say You're a million dollar business and you just started, you're doing a million dollars and you go, I want to get to 10 million. Okay, how are you going to get there? What's the, what's the thing that's going to get you there in terms of uh, product service, ah, or whatever it might be? It's this. Okay, um, so then we go, right, is that appropriate to sell en masse through a webinar? Is that a vehicle that can help you move that product on scale? So you have to start your commercials. I know it's boring to start with commercials and numbers, but you've got to start with is this contributing job. Because if you're just going to put together a webinar for, you know, I hope we get some clients or hope we get more people coming to our business, it's going to be expensive, it's going to consume loads of energy. It's going to turn you off this form of communication which is super valuable. So you want to lower your expectations in terms of sales, practice it, but fine tune what the point of it, what is the main point? And then from that you can go, okay, our uh, main points to sell this widget which solves this problem. So you start with the problem, then you start the solution. And then really important, it is important to have a backstory as well. It's important to tell your audience, like explain to them why they should listen to you. What is it that you've been through or that you understand that empathizes and resonates with them. And this is where it's really important to show your, I suppose, vulnerabilities. You know, I don't like saying that because I don't.

Speaker A: Imperfections, maybe.

Speaker B: Yeah, imperfections, yeah, that's probably a better term. So. And show them how you screwed up. Right? You know, listen, when I first started doing this, I had a disaster or I invested 100 grand into this and I lost the lot and had to find a way of screwing. Just. They've all been through that. So instead of the Instagram standing in front of a sports car in front of the Burj Khalifa with some sunglasses on, texting in your white chinos scenario, which most people know is bs, tell them the reality of what you've been through. And that's why your whatever it is is better. Uh, because it's come from pain, it's been forged in the fires and so it's more effective. And by the way, here's some of the results that it's got for Other people that are like you in your scenario. And these basic principles of uh, that communication will convince people, if you're legit, to come on board.

Speaker A: I really like that in terms of like the crux of the content. Right. And then maybe how to create a headline and a bit of a uh, teaser, sort of promot, promotional piece. Right. What I notice next is the logistics of the event itself. So let's just say it's a webinar digital. You need to have a certain platform that can host a lot of people at the same time. Some of them.

Speaker B: It's not cheap, actually. No, it can get expensive.

Speaker A: Yeah. Like we use teams because they already had an enterprise sort of, you know, teams because recently large organization. Some other people use Zoom. But you have to upgrade. Right. For, for a lot of these sort of like larger events and some of the times they, they give extra features like a Q and a sort of handhold thing, you know, uh, some additional features that you need to host an event kind of thing. Right. What do we, what do you recommend for any of this? If people.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I've got any link for an affiliate feedback or anything, but a lot on Webinar Jam. Webinar Jam, solid. You know, it's been around the block a long time. Zooms really improved what they do for these kind of events as well. But I think this is the thing, you know, it's okay to start. I mean even in the office it's okay to do a, a dummy run for 20, 30 people for free on a platform. Just to get your logistics right, just to get your automation.

Speaker A: Even like LinkedIn Live. Like does a live streaming thing. Just do that and invite some people. Do that.

Speaker B: And the thing is, if people give you. People are gonna. Don't ask for feedback. Somebody like early on in my business life somebody said don't ask feedback because you're going to hear. You don't want to hear. Right. That's what's gonna happen. But I think it just doing it helps and it gets you over the fear and it gets you over the hurdles before you decide to try and put an event for 3,000 people, which is very difficult. Um, understand the basics. Like for example, let's say you bring traffic. We'll talk about how to bring traffic soon. But you bring traffic to your landing page where you've got your video sales letter and you're communicating and they click to book what happens next. You know, if they've booked 30 days out and you're going to send them one email, an hour before that's not going to get them to the event. So what are you doing to keep adding value in that journey to that's going to increase their likelihood of showing up, but also an appetite to do business with you. And this is all things that you need to work out. This is. I uh, talk to people about retention, but retention starts with the first engagement. If you want to retain a client, it starts with the first engagement. So it's a full process all the way through.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: So yeah, the automation is important.

Speaker A: Okay. So we've got uh, maybe sort of our content at a basic level. We've practiced it. When I decided on some sort of webinar platform. Not going to talk about tools. Everyone likes to talk about tools but like it's not that hard. They go m out there and just buy one, whatever and start using it. But you know, uh, people that are already on a system, most people do have Zoom installed because you know, pandemic sort of era, um, a lot of people have, if they're sort of a large or medium sized business will have Microsoft systems or teams already installed in the computer. So like it just lowers the barriers to entry I find. So you know, go with something that's familiar unless there's another one that's really frictionless and then landing page. Yeah. So really important you need to have some sort of thing that sells the event. Could be your website or LinkedIn page or whatever, it doesn't really matter. But um, you need to have some sort of like sample of, of it via a video. Is that what you're recommending?

Speaker B: Just using a website or something like that is problematic. That's why funnels are so important because it's intentionally there to communicate that very specific message. And so if you're, if you're advertising that you sell oranges, let's say for example, and you send them to your green grocer website, you're going to lose that client. So if you're advertising that you sell oranges, you need to sell them to a VSL that's talking about oranges and keep that continuity there. That's really, really important. So even if you have got a website and you've got loads of um, additional content, social media or whatever else and you're doing lives that's all well and good, but whatever your advertising message and um, that could be through paid ads or it could be through advertisements or SEO or if you've got a big LinkedIn following, whatever it might be, or your email list, but whatever your core message Is if you say, I'm, um, selling oranges, you better send them to something that when they land there, it's orange and there's a piece of fruit on it. Because they go, okay, this makes sense now. But uh, you see all the time where people say something here and they land in this generic homepage or random, they're gone, they're gone. Right? You need to keep them focused and you need to hook them quickly in that first piece of communication on the video. Super, super important.

Speaker A: And obviously, you know, the headline sort of matches up with the headline that you're promoting. You know, they keep continuity.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's really like a lot of this stuff is basic. It is, it is hard to craft that headline and it's. And you have to try not to copy. Multi Million Dollar Homeless man explains how

Speaker A: 10 word headline just like keep it simple. Like literally what are they saying in journalism is like max? It's like six to eight words maximum for a headline. You know what I mean? And I find these people go this and that and that in the context of XYZ industry and blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's just like, what is it again? I don't even know. Just, just say AI. You know, people will come anyway.

Speaker B: There's a balance. There is a balance there. And like, I've got some great people that I work with who really craft the content. I take somebody like top level creators of this content of a video sales letter. It'll take them a good couple of weeks of real graph, like real graph to forge something that communicates really well. Because they're always repeating it back, talking it back, listening to it back and trying to make sure that they get the message nailed.

Speaker A: I think a lot of people underestimate the craft of that. They just give to some lackey and then they sort of just word match some stuff together. It's like super wordy, which makes sense technically. But then like it loses, uh, the, the value of the communication I find is not as effective when you're selling it. So give it to a good copywriter or something. Right?

Speaker B: Give it to a good copyright. But again, record it yourself to camera, listen to it on audio and assimilate what you're saying you want to be. You remember the old days, you say like watch your elevator pitch and that kind of thing. But it is like that you really need to get good at nailing what it is you, what solution you provide to your audience so that they can get it.

Speaker A: So I'd like to, I did this recently, um, it was like three companies. So, um, we had represented from all three companies within the sort of topic, but coming from different angles that the attendee would be familiar with. So there's the software provider, there was the implementation partner. And then we were coming in a bit more of a sort of governance kind of level, like, or a starting point kind of level. Get your shit in order first. Right. Kind of thing. And then go. The implementation person, that person talks about sort of like the ins and outs of doing this. And then the last one was the software provider giving a bit of a tactical demo. So we sort of stepped down. And what I found was very interesting is that we had to come together to practice. And we practiced at least three times. Uh, we practiced it ourselves, like, each, each party, um, independently. And then we came together three times to practice and sort of just run through. And doing that made it so much better, infinitely better when we went to do it, because everyone was kind of relaxed. It was, you know, definitely. We stuck within, I think, two minutes variation of how long we said it would be. Because, you know those webinars you go into, and it's like 40 minutes and it's like an hour 30 before they get to anything interesting. Oh, my God, you know, I've got to go to lunch or whatever. So, like, timing's super important. And if we didn't do that practice, like, uh, yeah, not. Not good.

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, even school plays, right? They meet and they practice and they rehearse. Ah. And they sometimes don't end up the greatest piece of theater you've ever seen. But so, you know, if you don't rehearse and don't practice, you might just get lucky and nail it. But it's really difficult. You've got to be really experienced to be able to do that. So practice is important. Making sure that you're just planned out of enough time. Give yourself a false deadline to run it, like, mock first and go through that process so that when it comes to the outcomes to the day, you're at least going to maximize your opportunity with that event for sure.

Speaker A: And one thing that I just want to mention as well, you know how the technical thing, whatever platform you're using, you have to be familiar with it. So I found it was really useful for us to just troubleshoot the technical things because, you know, when you go to webinars, nothing worse that this person go, oh, how do we invite? How do we mute everybody? And blah, blah, blah. It's just like a really bad kind of like, vibe, like, have you done this before. Uh, whereas we did that and we figured out, oh crap, we don't know how to use this program. And then we kind of figured it out. And then on the day we assigned someone as a technical kind of lead because, you know, one person is the main host and then the other two parties in this case, uh, were kind of joining in as admins, but there was an employee from our company who was a technical kind of manager sitting right next to us as the presenters, so that if anything had to happen, bang, they were doing it. You know what I mean? Because so we could present and focus on presenting and um, everything else was managed and it was like super slick. But I just remember if we hadn't practiced, we had enough. We, we would have been fumbling around on the day for sure.

Speaker B: Huge. I went m on somebody else's webinar a few weeks back and they're a big entity and the guy came on and he was going, oh, how do I share my screen? How do I share my slides? And even though like I was kind like, yeah, okay, I get it. But I'm like, come on, you know, I, you know there's hundreds and hundreds of people in this room and you just all.

Speaker A: They want to play a video, there's. Because this is a bit technical, they want to play a video or something in the slide deck or whatever. And then the audio doesn't work because you know, it has to have the permissions from whatever like things like that, uh, very basic things. You know, you need to, if you've

Speaker B: ever done SAS or any presentations like that, like you have to take the assumption that it's not going to work for whatever reason on the presentation.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So just have like pre recorded or screen slides or whatever else. And in fact we've had guests where we've asked them to record their piece before just in case for whatever reason they can't make it onto the live event.

Speaker A: Oh, and you can just play the. Okay, yeah.

Speaker B: So there's all sorts of things you can do like that where actually a lot, a lot of like even like something like ClickFunnels, they have three day challenges and there's a lot of that stuff that's probably just all pre recorded and put together and have an emcee on the day so it looks live and active, but actually you've got the assets already recorded in the background and that happens a lot, especially with guests. You know, I could easily be talking and talking to go, but don't listen to me. M. Let's Listen to Chris now and just play a video of Chris and he can go. Thanks Nath, uh, appreciate that. Hi everyone. But it's all pre recorded, right?

Speaker A: So that's what you want to do when you want to scale it after the first time, I'm guessing, right.

Speaker B: So this is it, right. So if you think about your event as a series of six, which is a good thing to think about, so you go, okay, so um, after you've done your, that's not including your dummy one that I would recommend you do in house. But once you've like gone for all the technical bits and checking, you know how to mute people, play a video, all that kind of stuff, you run a survey, you then do, okay, we're going to do a series of six. And so the business plan for that webinar or that funnel or that event or that challenge or whatever you're calling it is a series of six events.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And you're looking at how you can tweak and improve over that period. But as you go along they become less work, you put your energy out better, you can automate a lot more, you can probably pre record some stuff and you'll notice and if you treat it like that, by the end of that sixth event, you're going to really understand how valuable this is in your business. Like super valuable. This is the best way for you to scale. Never mind trying to run ads, to get to a landing page for people to self register and onboard themselves and all that kind of stuff that does happen. But if you're a small business, this is the best way to do it.

Speaker A: 100. So it could be the same topic six times. Doesn't have to be different topics.

Speaker B: I would definitely do that. Like definitely you can tweak it. You can, you can, but I would definitely do that because you know, you, you message out your audience and I don't know, let's say you've got 300 people coming to open your first webinar, which would be super great. And you go, okay, I'm going to estimate, I'm going to uh, convert, I would say 20, but let's say 10. Okay, that's 30 people. So that 30 people are going to spend X amount on average for my program. Where does that leave me? Oh, that breaks me even. Maybe, you know, maybe that breaks you even. You go, okay, that's a good result, that's a positive result for you because you've now got a whole new skill set, a whole new asset in your business that's costing you zero in terms of money, and next time you haven't got to go through all that learning curve. But now you've basically created your own TV channel. Like, you know, and you can utilize that and you can do it again and again and again until, as some old marketing gurus of mine said, just keep doing it and doing it and doing it until it doesn't pay anymore.

Speaker A: It's funny, um, they say that marketers get, um, bored of their own content way before the customer. Yeah, yeah, actually.

Speaker B: And I can't remember what it's called, but it's. It's a political strategy book. And it says, tell them, then tell them again, then tell them again. It's about seven pages, just saying tell them again. And then when you think they've heard it enough, tell them again. And then when you've had enough, tell them again, tell them again.

Speaker A: I'll, uh, notice on social media as well, uh, I made the mistake of like, oh, I need a new piece of content on a new angle. I'm like, no, no, just recycle the stuff. I do this all the time. Recycle last again and again and again and again. Yeah, yeah. No one sees it. So it's like.

Speaker B: And even if I have seen it, they took. You said it before. They took like one.

Speaker A: They want to hear it again. If they agree with it, they want to hear it again. Maybe in a slightly different tweak or angle, but like, have you watched a good film?

Speaker B: Have you watched a good film more than once?

Speaker A: M. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good for.

Speaker B: Right, so. So. So you listen to music multiple times that you like. Right?

Speaker A: Okay. So we've got, uh, Just to backtrack a bit. We've got a topic now. We've done our practice. We've got, uh, a landing page for the VSL with, um. The next thing, uh, I think a lot of people, uh, have trouble with is getting people there. I would say it's probably the biggest problem, especially when you're first starting out, because you might haven't used a lot of list. In this case with this other client, they didn't have anything. No newsletter list. I had to extract from the CRM list of customers that are already customers to sort of seed the newsletter infrastructure to then invite them out for the first time. We got the csms or sort of account managers to call them as well and personally invite them that would normally deal with as well. Uh, instead of. It come from a generic sort of, you know, inquiries at domain address. And then I also lay it on some LinkedIn ads to like an ad which went to the landing page as well, you know, targeting similar sort of target market. But what would you recommend for this? This is probably the hardest bit.

Speaker B: Yeah. So the cult, the cold traffic, um, bringing to an event. It's really important that you don't um, that you understand how something like meta works. So even though I'm not a media buyer like my business partners are, uh, and understand the need to be nuanced and be gentle because meta and platforms like that, Google, they want to spend your money, right? That's what they want to do. And so they'll lull you into this full sense of security in the early days, especially with low level money and they'll get you really good results because they'll see serve it to um, an audience that they believe is going to have a higher propensity to convert to encourage you to spend more money. I mean that. Is that cynical? Probably not.

Speaker A: No, no, no. It's exactly how it works. It's just an incentive. So their incentive is to get as much money out of you as it can. And there's a honeymoon period sort of thing where they've got to get you hooked and then it dilutes over time. It's very predictable.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's very predictable. So, so you've got to be prepared to have lots of different media and ads to try. And I think also when you're trying ads like you, you just said it there, people are like, I don't want to put that in an ad because if people see it. Yeah, but nobody will see it. And of the people that do see it, this is part of the testing process. So I think ads are okay to be radical. So let's go back to the orange reference. Before you could just hold an orange up and go, this is like a fresh orange. Come and join my orange webinar. Or you could just squeeze an orange over your head, you could eat an orange and pull your face. You can try all these different things because some of them are going to resonate with different people and you'll get an outlier in your ads where you can shut down your spend on um, the ads that aren't performed and just burning cash and move it and orientate towards this one until that will eventually burn out. And this is where people get it wrong, you see. So anybody can run Meta ads, anyone can run Google Ads, but anyone can play chess, right? But there's only a few grand masters in the world. And so I'm not saying you go out and hire the most expensive media buyer in the world because that's probably not the best person either. But what you really want is media buyer. Uh, like for example, my business partners, we've turned down loads of people that have come to us to buy media. We've gone. We just can't see how we can make that work. They're good people to work with. Like, they're good people to say, you know, I think you're gonna have to spend 5,000 on testing in the first week. But just explain to you that it's not just a turn on your ads and spend your money because that is statistically not going to work. Have a good run up to your event. Have a good 30 day run up. Use your first sort of four or five days just for testing and gathering event information and then look for any outliers in your ads or anything that's resonating and put money towards that. Now the other thing that people will tell you is, oh yeah, if you just break even, that's good. And I just said it, uh, earlier. Yes, that is true. If you break even on getting people to your event, that is good. But you know, there's nothing wrong with orientating around, trying to make a little bit of profit if you're selling tickets from getting to the event or trying to make sure that you're always testing and pushing what return you can get on your ad spend.

Speaker A: Yeah, this is an interesting thing. Um, you know where the commitment consistency principle. So if you offer like, hey, this event is free, I find you'll get a lot of people registering, but you'll probably get a 60 no show on the day because there's no, there's no outlay, there's no friction involved or commitment from the attendee. Right. Whereas if you go, hey, here's some nominal kind of friction to attend, or whether it's, you know, monetary or something else, then I find people are way more committed and will follow through and actually attend on the day.

Speaker B: So I wouldn't do that. Do. I wouldn't do free webinars, to be honest. I wouldn't do free events. I, uh, I personally, I wouldn't recommend that. So then you, somebody would go, well, how, what am I going to charge somebody for this? Okay, there's alternative ways of doing this. So you could partner it with, I don't know, let's say you're a business and you've got um, an insurance broker. Nothing to do with you at all, right? Nothing. You sell oranges but you've Got an insurance broker and you go to that insurance broker. Listen, I'm running this event. Um, it's not so much a sponsor, but is there any chance you can give somebody like uh, 30% off their insurance if they come in this event? And so you can use that as an incentification, but then you can look at the charge. So if you can get 200 quid worth of by proxy value in your event, you can say there's a 20 pound charge, but we give you on the day, hands down, 200 worth of cash value whilst we're talking to you about the oranges. And so you've just got to make sure it's. Again, it's back to the commercials. It's about understanding charging people creates friction. Okay. Why would they pay? Well, you've got to give them value. You have to give them value otherwise. So why bring them to a free event if you're not going to give them value? So give them tons of value, make it worth them paying and use that money for the event to pump back into your ads.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: So that the event starts working, fuels itself literally like that.

Speaker A: Okay. We're talking about value. This is a really good segue into inducements or I would call like magnets or lead magnets for the event itself. So maybe one of the magnets is a famous, ah, speaker or someone. You know, this happens at events all the time to run a real event. You know, the way it works is it's kind of like a pay for play. You get kind of some sponsors on board and you give them a speaking gig. One of the sponsors. Right. All conferences are like this. Um, but then you mix it with some other speakers. You generally go really big on one or two or three kind of semi famous or famous sort of headline speakers who act as a lead magnet for then everybody else. And then you know, the sponsors do their speech thing but no one really likes it because they're the just trying to sell people the whole time. And then you have some booths and stuff and that's kind of how you fund the, the events. You use the sponsor money to then pay for the big speaker. Right. Um, and then ticket sales and whatever else. Um, so for a webinar, what are some big lead magnets that will entice people to come? Like do you, do you have a famous speaker, do you give them free food or like catering or something, you know, that you ship out to their places or how does it work?

Speaker B: Yeah, so if, if you're talking to an audience that have got scurvy for example, let's go back into medieval times. But if you're talking to an audience scurvy, telling them you've got oranges is going to be enough because it's going to solve their problem, their deficiency. Right. I don't need to bring Captain Cook along. I mean, he might help, he might give it some by proxy credibility, but I don't need to pay Captain Cook to come and talk at this event because these people are in terrible pain, probably going to die, and I've got the solution for it. So that comes back to the original position. Yeah, you can get all these other people in. You know, you can go and pay 10 grand for a keynote speaker and all that. They're probably not going to help you sell more of your stuff. People are going to end up coming to see them off the back of all your hard work. So you're better off having a smaller audience that are more targeted with the problem that you've highlighted and empathize with them and your solution than dragging thousands and thousands and thousands of people in because somebody else is there. So I would say in the early days for sure, focus on, um, the end result, the conversion. Focus on that commercial piece that I said at the start rather than just trying to create an event and go, oh, we got 10, 000 people to this event. Okay, what happened? I didn't make any money, but we had this talker and this talk and this, you know.

Speaker A: Okay, yeah. I think, you know why, why they do that is because they see that's what the big corporate companies do because that's exactly the playbook that they use. But they're in a different time and place and it's more of a brand sort of maintenance thing because the trust and the sales. Right. So I think the mistake the small business make is they try to emulate that in the different context and they go, hey, what a network. Yeah.

Speaker B: And there's no, there's no need. Right. You could be Susan from down the road with your own, um, bridal shop. Um, it's okay. You can run some meta ads and you can go like, I'm like totally honest about when you come down for a fitting. Um, we talk about everything you want, but I'm going to be pushed back a little bit on what I think looks better for you. Come down and see me have a, a cup of tea and.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: You can just be that authentic with it and invite people. See, that's the other thing as well, Webinars. People are always thinking you've got to sell some kind of um, coaching products or knowledge product or something like that. You don't. You could be a real world bricks and mortar business and you can do a presentation and somebody that's 15 miles away that might not come to your bridal shop, they come on your webinar, uh, because it's easy to target them through ads and they go, actually it's probably worth me going down there a little bit because she sounded like she knew what she was talking about and so you can drive traffic to your real world business as well. It's not just coaching, it's not just those kind of products. It's everything.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Hey, so um, we mentioned sort of ads. So get a good ad person to get, you know, expand beyond your own media.

Speaker B: Get a media buy that's going to push back and you get a media buy that's going to tell you some realities. Don't. Just because they're telling you things you don't like, it doesn't mean that they're not the right. But in fact they're probably the right person if they're pushing back a little bit. And if they say like I want to keep your spend down, I don't want to escalate too quickly, you know, I want to review it on a day to day basis, all that kind of stuff. You want to make sure they're doing that.

Speaker A: Yeah. Hey, um, one of the other things that we used for this other one that I did, uh, was that we sort of cross pollinated, I call it the audiences. So the reason for having three different companies talk about the same sort of topic from different angles was that we could sort of leverage each other's audience and sort of combine forces and reduce the risk but also amplify the potential attendee list. Um, what happened funnily enough was that um, the two others didn't really do anything. So it was all on, all on us. But um, that was the plan anyway. So. So it's not always like um, you have to rely on ads but if you don't have a big list or you don't have partners, you probably have to. Right.

Speaker B: Well the, the other thing that you mentioned that uh, I don't know if anybody heard was you can pick up the phone as well. Right. You can call people. I know you don't want to do

Speaker A: that or DM them at the very least on LinkedIn or something or DM them.

Speaker B: I mean just it's free. Right. And you can use something like many ah, chat or there's tons and tons of automation out there that can dm, um, and don't do like Naftiums, just do like real credible, authentic. But you can mass communicate for free or like 27amonth using a piece of software. So all your social media contacts, uh, be that on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, whatever it might be. And guess what else you can do. You can ask them to recommend people or refer people or share information. It just ask them to share it. Like do me a favor, I'm running my first webinar. Ping it out to everyone because I want to change the world.

Speaker A: So that was one of my things is like, I think underused technique is like a lot of people want to attend something but they know a colleague. So I'm like have it somewhere in the copy. Like hey, bring a friend as well and sort of make this interesting kind of thing, you know, and then discuss after, afterwards you've doubled your, your attendee list.

Speaker B: Easy, right? The other thing that works really well for people is um, quizzes or scorecards or assessments.

Speaker A: That's a beforehand or after him or both.

Speaker B: Well, both. But before it's really good, you know, even if it's like a bit of friction like you said tonight. Let me check if this is relevant for you. You know, where are you in terms of your like margin performance? Where are you in terms of your like audience? Whatever questions you're going to ask and then you can say to them, this event is probably going to solve 70% of your problems.

Speaker A: I also use it, um, so we're talking about, you know, pre communication just to get that commitment before the event. I also use, uh, what question do you have that you really want answered, you know what I mean? Ahead of time. So that you get the commitment but then also you feed that into the Q A. So instead of going Q A, does anyone have any questions and like no one responds. You go, hey, Cindy, you asked a question about this. I'm sure some other people on the line have a question about this as well. Here's what we, we thought about it and this is probably the best answer we can provide over blah, you know. And then you um, have a really good Q A session, I find. Um, but a lot of people don't do that.

Speaker B: That, yeah, come here and listen to me tell you what I'm all about and m. What I've got.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: But what you've got to remember is so there's some principles here. Every, everything that you are talking about or doing and everything your audience wants Falls into three categories, right? Which is health, wealth or relationships. And they're either moving towards more wealth or away from poverty. Or it's either towards or away from health, wealth and relationships. Something orientated in that. And if you, once you get that in your head and start understanding what human, humans need and want, it's going to help you refine your communication and that will then allow you to go through everything we talked about. The commercials, the message, the ads bring in the audience and then when they come there, it's better to have 30 people that are going to convert than to have 30,000 that are not going to buy a thing.

Speaker A: How do you make the event good, apart from energy? I have been to an event and I think this is very much unused or underutilized is the uh, music. So when people are sort of coming in, you've got a bit of a lobby sort of experience. And generally people wait around 5, 10 minutes for everyone sort of connects because a lot of people are late for meetings, whatever. And I found, um, this other. They're community managers so they're pretty adept at this because they run a lot of events. But, uh, what was really cool is they play some really funky music and they're kind of like a bit of a party vibe. Like you just sort of entered a, not a club but like a bar and everybody's sort of catching up and sort of emulated that vibe. And then, you know, started talking casually about, how are you, oh, hey, you know, this person's m, let's come online, what's happening with you and blah, blah, blah, blah, Other sort of like tactics that you use like that, uh, that can really help or.

Speaker B: I think we do, we've, we've done some behind the scenes stuff. Not like bloopers, but like just casual conversations where people can watch that, how the event was put together. Um, and a really good one actually was where we showed how we got people to the event. So what we spent what we paid. When we were putting the ads together, this one was horrendous. Look at this app that didn't work you. And if you've seen this, that that's what got you there. So explaining to them the journey of how you got there adds value to the event because when they can see you've done work to put it together as well, it really resonates with them and they go, okay, these people have put something, they're taking it seriously. Yeah, I'm here now and they're going to give me some value. So I think showing behind the scenes reality and all that kind of stuff. The trouble with music is what music are we playing?

Speaker A: Yeah, sort of like lobby elevator music or is there something a bit funky? So in this case it's a good question because, uh, everyone likes different things. But in this case they were kind of a bit more of a younger sort of, you know, community manager, social media, sort of mid-20s or early-30s, a tech vibe. So they were playing kind of like funky sort of electro sort of music and it kind of worked for that, that group.

Speaker B: But yeah, yeah, if you know your audience before the event, you can play questions to them as well. So you can challenge an audience and you could say to an audience, like let's say for example, I was doing an SME gig or something like that. I could say to them, do you know that the average life of an SME has dropped by 20% since the year 2000 and it's shrinking all the time, which gives you less chance to achieve your goals. Now if I'm gonna, if I've got an event that I'm selling in, something can accelerate their goals in that pre event bit where I'm challenging them with maybe some scary information. But it's legit and I back it up. It can help prep them for the event as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, one other question was, uh, you know, we talk about attendees and you know, no shows, right. Especially if it's free. Um, a lot of the time they go and this is the thing that I try not to do is that they go, oh well, one attend. Why can't I just watch recording at a, uh, convenient time to me, Right. Um, what would you say to about that? Should we record and post it afterwards? Or should you only sort of post a recording that's redacted or what's, what's your advice on that?

Speaker B: I m think I would include it in the paid version. You know. Okay, I think just, just look, scarcity is important, right? We know that scarcity is important. If people come in an event and then they think they can just get a re watch, they're not going to watch it and concentrate. So I just say there is no recording of it because we do it live. And it depends what's happening and times change and so the next events on this, that give them m. A chance to come to the next event, but go, you missed out on this, this, this, this, this and this for sure. But I wouldn't, I don't see the point. Send them a freebie.

Speaker A: No, either do I. I think it's Just like cannibalizing. So the whole value also you're doing work.

Speaker B: You're doing work. I think this is another thing that business owners need to. We all know it, but we don't get paid enough for what we do, that's for sure. And we need to have more confidence in being able to charge and more valuing ourselves. And I think one of the ways you do that is by deeply understanding that you're giving something that's of great value to people and that people should pay for it. It's fine.

Speaker A: Hey, another thing I just came across because, um, this was for lawyers, right. Is that I noticed there's like CPD or professional development points that I have to upkeep and that was a big selling point and that's something we missed in the first one because I didn't know you could do it. So very interesting. If they don't attend, they don't get the points. So, uh, we use that as a bit of a hook as well.

Speaker B: Really good. That's really good. So let's take the hospitality. So let's say I was trying to sell to caterers or restaurants or something like that. Um, one of the things that would be super valuable, you say, oh, by the way, when you come on that you can get all your food safety training certification through one of our suppliers and they'll do that free for you for six months. So by proxy they need that compliancy anyway. They've got to come through and do that anyway. And so they're going, okay, well I might as well come and do that. And then also you can get, like I said, one of your suppliers to challenge their prices and bring and increase their margin. These are just benefits that you do no work on at all, but they need. And then you can move in. And so. And it gives you more trust by proxy as well because you're adding more value for them.

Speaker A: Yeah. And understanding. So the industry they're coming from, people ask me, when should we have it? It's a really interesting question. And um, what's your answer to that?

Speaker B: So we've done five day challenges which even when we were doing them and I've presented almost all of that in some cases. Um, in fact there was one time when we're in the Middle east and for some reason the laptop I was using, it wasn't mine, but it decided to just reset itself. You talk about being prepared and the laptop just turned off and reset itself. And I got my iPhone logged in on my own and I think we had about 800 people on the webinar or something like that. And it was a five day challenge. But I just started my phone again, but because I'm quite comfortable with that, you know, you make a joke of it and you go, look, just to prove this is live, that laptop's just crashed and I'm now on my phone. Um, so I think when you're going through, when you're going through the event and the different stages of communicating to your audience, it's, it's about you being confident in your product, your solution and your offering. That's what's most important. We did the five day events, then we reduced them down to three day events and now we're down to one day, six hour events. Um, and we're using and we're getting sort of similar results and Monday is a great day for it. Monday is a great day for it.

Speaker A: What afternoon? Not in the morning when people have the inboxes full. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah. So in the afternoon really, when they've got rid of all that early. Now, communication wise, Tuesday after Tuesday is the best day to communicate. It's a really powerful day to communicate. But I think that show up on a Monday afternoon because they're, they've got it in their head and they're ready. We've had good show up rates and we've had good consumption and good conversion on it.

Speaker A: So they're not fatigued by the end of the week or like planning for Fridays.

Speaker B: Get nobody's coming on a Friday, like nobody's coming on a Saturday. Forget those kind of days. But this is the start of a working week and as long as it's massive value, I'm going to provide me with a solution. They've probably got, they've done all the crap stuff in the morning, you know, and dealt with all the horrible emails and then you've got that afternoon to pitch into them and give them a solution and inspire them. Remember, you've got to inspire them. You're giving them, you, you're not just giving them a solution but you have to energize them and give them um, for the week, some for the week.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And it gives you also, if you do it on a Monday, it gives you a chance to follow up effectively and make those sales and get those onboardings done that week.

Speaker A: Okay, so last thing, uh, it's been really, really good but we've covered a lot of uh, turf is um, when you're building a business case, like I mentioned, this company hadn't done it for the first time, a lot of it goes to, you know, how are we going to measure it or how are we going to justify the business case, even if we're doing a pilot for next. Next time. So again, coming back to metrics, um, what would be the sort of big things that you hit on from a business perspective to then do another one and to maybe expand and go from there? Attendees, uh, emails, caption.

Speaker B: Well, they need to know, they need to know the average order value. So what's the average order or lifetime value? So client somebody was speaking to the other day, their average client value is 180 grand over 24 months. So that's a nice chunk of junkie value. Right. So you get a few people in there, you're making big money. If your order value is like $20, you're probably never going to make it work. You know, it's just not going to happen. If it's an entry $20 and then it's going to scale, that's different. So you need to know what that client is going to be worth to you. And you need to know how many of them clients would make up the number that is going to make it worthwhile for you more than anything else. Measuring things like, um, you know, number of attendees or number of engagements or number of emails sent, or list build. I wouldn't do that as a small business. Like, you know, money. Right. Profit is sanity. And I would focus entirely on come. And also, let's say you've obviously got a mechanism. I would suspect anyway, as a business that you're selling something already through a medium. So you measure it against that. Right. Never mind measuring against like these ethereal numbers, but measuring against what you're currently doing. And if you have a salesperson that's generating, I don't know, $10,000 a day and you put a webinar on and you go, okay, what happened? How many people, what resource went into it? It generated $50,000. And you go, well, that's no good because he's generating 10,000 now. So we need to compare it to what we're doing, already know our numbers on how many sales we want to need to make and then base it on a, maybe a 5% conversion rate to begin with or something like that. Yeah, you know, go low level.

Speaker A: Is there anything that, um, you want to talk about that we've kind of missed before? I sort of like talk about, um, you know, you and your sales pitch or not.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really, really important, um, that the funnel, the webinar that anything, it doesn't matter. It's only one component of the whole thing. And you really need to get deep into understanding that, you know, if you, if you have in your head 16 points of valuable contact on average is what's going to get somebody converted. That's a good place to start because you need to then map out, okay, I've got to be committed to this. And, uh, you know, you know what it's like. You don't walk up to a woman or your future partner and tap them on the shoulder in the street, go, do you want to get married? You know, you have to date them a little bit and you have to, like, try and get. Customers are the same, right? Um, they need to learn to trust you, they need to learn to like you, they need to learn to know you. So just be prepared to be in for the long haul. And don't just think that the funnel or any sales thing is going to be a silver bullet, because it's not. Because there aren't any silver bullets out there.

Speaker A: There.

Speaker B: It's a whole process and a whole journey.

Speaker A: True, true, true. Okay, perfect. And so coming back to you, uh, you told us a bit about your history, but, um, if people are interested in what we're talking about today, over to you. What do you, what do you do? What do you sell?

Speaker B: Yeah, so we, I mean, exactly what we've been talking about here, we, we act in the background, actually. So we, we say we currently recruit talent and work with talent, but whatever it is your business does, the number one thing that we're looking to do is create an asset, asset for you that will automate lead customer client generation for you. That's the principles of this, the first one. Obviously we have to build stuff and make stuff and automate stuff, but we then hand over that asset to you with a full CRM and marketing system that you can then press, copy and duplicate and alter and alter and alter. So effectively, like if you had a real retail shop and you spend 150 grand to fit it out, and you came to us and you built this asset for 25 grand, you can then duplicate that as many times as you want. But what we do is build all of that for you so that you can build, bring in clients, client upon client upon client forever. Really. That's what we do.

Speaker A: Great. Okay. And if people want to get in contact with you, your first name is Nathan, your last name is Nathan.

Speaker B: But yeah, come to me. Uh, just come to me and find me on LinkedIn. It's the best way we operate in the background really. We don't. I uh, know this is like people don't hear this necessarily but we don't have to or do any. We get too many referrals um, off big people and connections and so. But if you message me directly we can just have a little bit of a chat and then we can jump on a call and just talk like this.

Speaker A: Okay. By the minimums we'll be talking like 10,000 sort of upwards. Minimum.

Speaker B: 10 grand? Yeah. Min for, for an appointment. Um, magnet. Something that's just going to take people to a self generated appointment. 10k and then up to whatever's going to make sense for you.

Speaker A: And that's in pounds?

Speaker B: Yeah, that's pounds. But also English. English sterling pounds. Yeah. So wherever.

Speaker A: Pacific pesos as we call our dollar.

Speaker B: No, no, £10,000. That's how many we're.

Speaker A: That's great. Well, thanks for staying up um, late tonight and Nathan, really appreciate it and hopefully if people are uh, looking to do events or webinars or sort of do it properly to get actual sales revenue out of it as opposed to just some optics thing and getting attendees, I think that was a really good conversation. They should reach out to you if they're interested. So thanks.

Speaker B: Yeah, good luck everyone. Uh, it's a roller coaster. Right. But good luck.