Why High Performers Still Feel Stuck With Leila Entezam

Speaker A: Layla, welcome and thank you for being here.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: So I want to start with this topic of neuro emotional intelligence is a big one. Um, so can you just start with maybe what got you into studying this area? How did you come to become an expert in this field?

Speaker B: Sure. So, uh, first let me break down what it is. And so if you chop it up into pieces, the neuro would be anything um, about your brain and the emotional intelligence would be awareness of self and other. And so neuro emotional intelligence puts together your brain. So uh, how all of that functions coupled with your self awareness and your awareness of other people and how you um, combine all of that towards optimized for performance. And then how I got into it is uh, I have an undergrad degree in neuroscience and just um, you know, spent decades fascinated by all things brain. I was pre med and that wasn't really uh, working and so uh, it was just like swimming upstream. It wasn't innate. Uh, and then I switched to an MBA instead of med school and um, that was uh, awesome. Got a business degree, a couple decades in the business world, um, and uh, different positions and then there was always still something missing. So I did another master's in psychology and I became a licensed mental health therapist. Not to practice clinically, but as a way of being really immersed in what drives human behavior and change at a fundamental level. Um, uh, and so I added that sort of to the repertoire and then from there, uh, I never intended to. As I said, you practice clinically. It was, uh, I started coaching and then the coaching got into sort of more executive coaching and then more high performer coaching. And, and so putting all of those things together came up with this Neuro emotional intelligence coaching for high performers. So the pieces of the journey kept adding to the title.

Speaker A: What would you say really fascinates you in the intersection of your work? Like is there a. You talked about high performance, you talked about neurology and the nervous system and the brain and all things the brain. But is there some connection that just really has sparked your curiosity to kind of continue your career and evolving in this way?

Speaker B: Yeah, Michael, I'm fascinated by human behavior like why we do what we do. And it's insane. I literally have spent decades studying the brain and, and it just never gets old that what drives us? Why do we do what we do? How conscious are we of those drivers or not? Uh, and it's just remarkable. I think that. And the experience of watching people's change and transformation, that's incredible.

Speaker A: Yeah. My curiosity is Sparked in very similar ways. I think about, you know, our big thought structures, uh, of like how the, how people operate. Right. And this idea of rationality and logic has really moved our society, you know, massively, massively forward and that. But you, you get to a point where you understand that a lot of our decisions and behaviors are actually driven by emotion. We may, we may justify with logic or we may um, build evidence to convince ourselves in wonder and sway it one one way other. But at the end of the day it is really emotional. And I think so many people have a difficult time especially if they are high performers and have done really well in kind of this linear do, uh, execute system, you know, these systems like that. And so yeah, the emotional intelligence came about, you know, a number of years ago or however many years ago. And we're kind of adding another evolution to it. With what you're talking about, what do you, what is the main difference between like the EQ evolution as it's kind of out in popular culture and uh, the neuro aspect of it, is it sort of bridging? Well, this isn't all emotion. It's actually really tied to things in your physical body or how would you explain that?

Speaker B: Well, I, I want to go back to something you said earlier about how, you know, the um, how we're emotional. So your brain develops from the back and where you do logical processing is up here and where you do emotional processing is not. And we, we process information emotionally before we do logically anyway. And so you are emotional before you're logical. Your, your decisions are emotion based primarily because your brain's number one job is survival. And so the first thing it does is say, hey, emotionally, am I safe here? Is there a threat here? And so that automatically happens. So I wanted to speak to um, that comment you made. Uh, and then as far as what's the layering here of the EQ versus the neuro? Uh, it's more comprehensive in the sense that you're saying, okay, what are the brain and neuroscience elements? What are the psychology elements? The self awareness, the awareness of other. What are the somatic elements? I have a tool, uh, in my book called Setup. And so the S is for or your somatics, the physical sensations in your body. Your body is a whole other data set that most people lead out all the time. Are your shoulders tense? Is your, your stomach in knots? The E is for your emotions. So what do you feel about whatever's happening right now? Uh, the T is for your thoughts. What thoughts come up in this decision that's before us. The U is for what else is in your universe. So did you almost get in a car accident on your way here? Are you excited about an upcoming vacation? Did you just have a fight with a loved one? And then the P is for your physiology. You know, did you have a good night's sleep? Are you hungry? Are you full? Um, you know, the last time you had a bowel movement. And so all of that is affecting the decisions that you're making all day, every day, because you bring that whole person to the decisions that you make. And so that the complexity of all of that, to just look at someone's neuroscience, to just look at someone's psychology doesn't capture it. You want to, um, m look at that whole person. And so that setup tool allows you to take a quick inventory of what are all the things that are affecting my decision in this moment.

Speaker A: Okay, that makes sense. Um, you mentioned comprehensive, and you touched on the different, uh, I guess subjects that go into this kind of comprehensive look. One of those is psychology. And what strikes me as in your description is like, psychology, at least as I know it, kind of rests on the belief that thoughts become before emotions and then go to action. Like that thought, emotion, action sequence that is. Is out there. Maybe that's. Maybe that's, uh, not correct. But that's. That's certainly what I have seen and what I have experienced as well, like in a therapy setting. And you kind of talked about how actually emotion first and then you have a thought. And I just wanted to give you the floor to kind of touch on that. Or maybe. Maybe psychology is evolving because of this. Or how does that stuff sort of square up in your universe?

Speaker B: So, uh, anytime you have, uh, some. Some interaction with the world, some engagement with another person, the very first thing your brain does is say, am I safe? So, for example, uh, you and I got on this podcast. Um, uh, you know, we're virtual, so it's a little different. But especially if we were in person, um, my brain would be saying, what do I know about him? Your brain would be saying, what do I know about her? I'm sizing this up. Uh, do I feel safe? Do I feel threatened? And that threat assessment isn't just physical, it's also emotional. Um, do you remind me of my, uh, second grade teacher that was really mean to me and now, you know, I sort of subconsciously already formed an opinion about you? Uh, and so that threat assessment is that first initial layer that's happening from there. When we approached each other, what Was your word choice? What was your tone? What was your. Were you yelling? Were you speaking softly? So I'm taking all of that into this assessment of, hey, am I okay here? And then I am layering on top of that, what are the words you're saying? What's the conversation that we're having here? Uh, and then forming my thoughts and reactions from there.

Speaker A: And most of that initial, uh, processing that happens is all essentially unconscious. Is that the label that you would give it?

Speaker B: Subconscious? In a fraction of a second. So there was a study years ago that, um, uh, they took these students that were, uh, in a college class. And you know how you have those, like, professor evaluations at the end of a semester? You know what I'm referring to? So they, um. The students did the professor evaluation at the end of the semester. Then they took these random participants and they showed them they weren't. They weren't in the class. They showed them a video of this professor, and they, uh. With different audience sets, they reduced the duration of the video and to where the. The shortest one, I think, was like, maybe a couple seconds and no audio. And with staggering consistency, these professor evaluations of a couple seconds and no audio was the same as, uh, you know, having spent a whole semester with this professor. So you form your opinions of a person, of an environment, of whatever it is subconsciously within a fraction of a second. And then, you know, or a few seconds. And then you're spending the rest of the time sort of, you know, uh, evaluating that, analyzing that.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's almost like an initial bias that you're then either confirming or disconfirming in the back of your mind as your experience goes on. And that's all done at a more conscious level. Okay, so if we're to, you know, and I agree, like, obviously it's factual that our decisions and our behaviors get shaped by much more than logic and reason. And you can lump environment in there. But obviously there's a breakdown of all of that as well. So in this practice, why should someone care about going, like, you know, I could see some of our audience being like, my head's exploding. This is so. It's deep. It's comprehensive. It's a lot to take on. Like, what are the central benefits as you see them, to approaching their careers or problems or their lives, uh, in this manner and getting good at these types of skills.

Speaker B: It's the difference between, um, making my choices intentionally versus sort of more, um, arbitrarily or unconsciously. And so when I'm making them More consciously, then I can be more involved in that decision making and make choices that are more optimal for. So an example might be, um, you are going to have a conversation with your boss, or your boss is going to have a conversation, or, you know, with your employee, either way. And so in this conversation, let's say, you know, Michael, you had to deliver something, and you were late, and now I'm going to come and have this conversation with you, and I'm your boss, okay? So I'm going to come have this conversation with you. I'm really upset. I'm disappointed, all the things. And on a scale of 1 to 10, the way I approach you is an 8 out of 10 in terms of how upset I am about this. And I just sort of figured that that whole eight out of ten belong to you and whatever it is that you messed up. But if I stopped and did a setup assessment, and I thought, well, you know, um, my stomach's upset. I don't know if I ate something bad at lunch. And, you know, I got in a fight with my significant other, you know, before I got to work today. And so I'm not happy about. And my kid is maybe messing up in school and not stressing me out, or I've got some financial woes, and that's weighing on me, or I missed the deadline myself, and that's not going well. Um, uh, I've got all these emotions about all these other things that are happening. And so it's one brain. It's all one database. And when I come to you and I approach you at an 8 out of 10 in terms of how upset I am about what you messed up, and I assume the whole 8 out of 10 belongs to this situation. But if I stop to break it down and say, you know what, there's all these other things that are kind of going on for me right now that might make me feel some similar things. And I realized, you know what? Actually, like, half of that 8 out of 10 is about all this other stuff. And really, you know, it's only a 4 out of 10 in terms of how upset I am about whatever it is that Michael. Michael, uh, you know, m. Uh, got wrong. And that changes the conversation you and I are about to have, which changes the outcome of that, which changes how you feel and what we might do afterwards. All because I stopped to say, let me just sort of check in and see, you know, is all of this really about Michael? M. And what Michael did wrong?

Speaker A: Okay, so it's kind of giving a structure to that pause between stimulus and response and getting you to sort of examine what other factors may be going on for you in how you show up in the next experience.

Speaker B: So you can be more intentional and you can be in the driver's seat rather than just sort of, um, you know, going through the motions.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. And I can see how that works with, obviously, creating better interpersonal relationships, fostering more, uh, psychologically safe environments for teams. Um, if people are able to approach things that way. What about just pure performance? Like, is there a layer to this where, you know, if you are, uh. You talk about having high performers and peak performance people and sort of like, how does this help you get to, like, a next level, maybe outside of the example that you just gave? Or is for most people, that next level really about the interpersonal?

Speaker B: So two things. One is that, uh, that that assessment isn't just about an interpersonal dynamics. Let's say I'm gonna go buy a new car. And if I, you know, I think I have to have this new car. And if I sort of check in with myself and say, do I really need a new car? Am I shopping for a car? Cause I'm feeling down on myself, and I think that's gonna help me. Um, or, you know, even if it's not as big as a car, let's say I'm, you know, gonna eat something, um, that's maybe unhealthy, or I'm gonna go buy something I shouldn't buy. Whatever the case may be. In any decision that I'm making, I'm able to check in and say, okay, you know, what's driving this decision? Since there's so much in my one database. So that's, uh, one piece, I would say. Is that helpful at all?

Speaker A: Yeah. So I think, um, I can see how it sort of relates more to everyday choices that can be more optimal for you. Because we all know that there's a difference between having the information and altering the behavior. And I mean, I just. Like, before I got on with you, I'm ashamed to admit this, but I had a bowl of Cheetos, and, you know, I'm walking over the pantry, and I'm like, I know I shouldn't do this. Right? Like, but, uh, was feeling a little down or whatever, and I went like, maybe that scratched the surface with your kind of model, But I still did it. And so. But with this practice, you're able to translate, okay, I have knowledge that I shouldn't do this. I'm even catching myself. And even Uh, I even know that there's a different driver, but with a few more layers I can actually stop that behavior. That's sort of what, or do something different.

Speaker B: And it's not about, you know, being the perfect human.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Um, if you know, this makes you, allows you to have, make better choices. 3 out of 10 times, 4 out of 10 times. Uh, I had called with a CEO client of mine earlier this morning and um, she was talking about some unhealthy choice that she made and same thing, she's like, I knew I should have done this, but I did it. And you know, we had the same conversation is that it's not about you're going to make the perfect choice every time. And, and you know, life is just uh, that's the end of it. It doesn't work that way. But, but man, if it gets you to make some better choices half the time then uh, you know, or at least it helps you understand why you're doing what you're doing. And then if I go back to the other comment you made about well we know, what does this do for high performers, uh, and for enhancing performance.

Speaker A: Performance.

Speaker B: So if you imagine, if we go back to the conversation about okay, Michael messed up and his boss approaches him and says, hey, you know, what the heck happened? And so now Michael can do a check in for himself. And you know where he goes from there? Does he get defensive? Does he shut down? Does he look to you know, overcome this? Does he say, you know what, I'm going to knock it out of the park you know, 10 times more next time, whatever that is that check in with himself of like whatever reaction I'm having, let me check in and see where that's coming from and how do I move to whatever is going to be most optimal.

Speaker A: Makes sense. So from like the, from I want to dig into the neuro side of this for a little bit because I think at least in um, general zeitgeist right now, at least for the, in terms of the people and influences that I look towards. Younger male dominated, um, influencers, health people, the link between like stress and response, stress on the body, you know, it's very much talked about in terms of heart rate variability, hrv, vagal tone is uh, you know, that your vagus nerve optimizing your vagus nerve, all of this stuff. And uh, it's getting at I think maybe data or markers of like how your nervous system is doing. But what's sort of real and not real from your perspective. Like if I were trying to dig into my neurologic systems. You know, how would you advise someone like that to go about it?

Speaker B: I think if I wanted to simplify it to, uh, the most basic, you know, there. To your point, there's a lot of information about HRV or your vagal nerve, or here's the latest trend, or here's the latest hot topic. Um, I was listening to a podcast the other day, Andrew, um, Huberman, uh, his work I'm a big fan of. And he said, oh, uh, oxytocin was the hot, um, uh, hot thing a couple years ago, and before that it was serotonin or something. And today it's dopamine or cortisol or something, whatever. Right, so to your point about, is it vagal nerve today, is it HIV tomorrow? But, uh, if I strip all of that away, the, the, the basics that I can bring it down to is the, um, understanding what are the things that your brain came to define as elements of threat. Because your brain's number one job is survival. Whatever it, it, um, associates with something that looks, acts, smells, sounds, feels like something that ever in its entire lifetime it has flagged as threat, physical or emotional, then those things set off alarms. And that has nothing to do with whether you know, what's in trend today. Um, that's just the basics of your brain function. And so, you know, if you look at, um, um, you were rejected as a child, or you felt abandoned, or, um, you know, you grew up in a lot of chaos, or m. Uh, you know, you had a traumatic experience in your teens or later years, um, any of those things, your brain says, okay, here's a thing that was threatening. Uh, and so, you know, what are, what do we know about it? What are the keywords that we're going to associate with that. And then anytime something happens in your life and it starts typing in keywords and it brings up the files that are associated with those keywords, if they happen to be any of the ones that have to do with the threats, then your brain says, okay, hold on, Stop everything. What? You know, this looks like it's something we've seen as a threat before. What do we need to do?

Speaker A: Okay, makes sense. So would you say that the goal typically is a reframe or a reset around fear? Like, is that the main thing that we're trying to solve for with this type of work? Like, like, uh, the amount of fear that. That clouds our judgment or something like that?

Speaker B: No, I, I would re, uh, reword that as the goal is self awareness of what are the things that, that my brain, um, tags in in different categories. What is my. What are the things that contributed to these, like, initial definitions that I created in my brain? How does my brain define threat, safety, love, rejection, abandonment, belonging, etc.

Speaker A: Okay, so M. So not, not resetting that emotional response, uh, specifically or, um, with any direction work, it's more about understanding your responses and how they may be, um, influencing your choice so that you can make a better one.

Speaker B: The understanding is the very first level because you can't change anything that you're not aware of. So I first have to do the deep dive work of understanding. And then from there I can look to see, okay, which one of these narratives do I need to rewrite? So if I pick any of the examples of like, either rejection or abandonment or any of those, and my brain made some, some definitions around that in my early years and now, you know, decades later, I'm not the same person. It's not the same, uh, the same situation in life. And so I've become aware of that narrative and now the opportunity to rewrite that narrative for today's circumstances, for the person and situation that I am in today.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's really interesting because getting into that narrative discussion, I assume your work doesn't. Isn't just necessarily situational. It's also, I suppose you get into the whole messy weave of narration that becomes like an identity. So is that something that takes much longer to re. Narrate? I guess with this type of work,

Speaker B: uh, that has a lot of variables. It depends on the person, how resistant they are or open, um, how accessible, uh, those memories are to them and how willing they are to go there. Uh, how deep the effects of that were, how long it's been buried away, um, how open they are to moving from that place. Um, so, uh, it's interesting because in particular with high performers, you know, you. You give them a task and they want to knock it out of the park, tell me what to do, how it gets done. And I've got this. And with, with this type of work, it doesn't work that way. You know, it doesn't have this set timeline. It could take somebody six months. It could take somebody six years.

Speaker A: Okay, so the role. When someone comes to you, what are they looking for?

Speaker B: Um, sometimes they'll know and oftentimes they don't. So, uh, sometimes you'll know that a thing happened. Trouble with the leadership team, um, uh, something they're experiencing. Uh, and sometimes you know something isn't right. You just don't know what it Is there's like this emptiness, this gnawing feeling, but you don't quite have the language for it. Uh, sometimes you may know that, hey, listen, I'm just. Nothing's working in life. Um, I'm having challenges at work and at home. Uh, and again, sometimes it may be that, yeah, you know, things kind of seem like they're moving along okay, but something's not right.

Speaker A: And so when you have somebody that's just not right and they reach out to you or you get in touch with them, how do you sort of diagnose, like, what. What's going on? Are they, are they, uh, are they a right fit for this type of work versus maybe some other type of work? What are like the core questions?

Speaker B: Um, uh, so sort of double click on that for just a second. So the, um, in terms of this type of work, uh, there's a difference between if it is coaching, if it is high performance coaching. Um, if you're asking about, you know, whether they're ready for therapy, which is not what I do. Um, so, so, uh, if it is with respect to, um, my work and working with high performers, um, then the. Are they ready? Is a question of. That's for them to answer in terms of like, you know, do you, are you at least, um, curious enough to be willing to show up? Uh, and then where we go from there is, ah, oftentimes what you think you're here for is not really what you find out you're here for. You know, what you think you're experiencing is really, there's something deeper going on. Um, and so we'll have a conversation about, like, what are the challenges that you're experiencing? What, you know, what makes you interested in doing some performance work now? Um, and then because whatever, whoever you are today and whatever you experience today, you're bouncing that, uh, against your definitions that you created in your early years. You know, back to what we said about definitions of, you know, love and safety and trust and rejection and all of those things. We always start with understanding one, what. What were the experiences that you had that created those early definitions and what are those definitions? And then two, what's the rest of the physical machine? So remember, we look at the whole self and so how's your diet and exercise and sleep and uh, you know, social circle and things like that? So who's this whole person? And then what's that whole person experiencing today? And what do we need to bridge the gap between the two?

Speaker A: It's another interesting one of sleep again in the zeitgeist A lot of talk about sleep optimizing sleep from your perspective. I mean, is that, is that an underlying physiological piece that needs to get talked about a lot more, or is it something that's maybe less, uh, less important?

Speaker B: I think it's absolutely significant in terms of getting good, healthy sleep, rest, um, but I think in terms of how much that, that's so individual. You hear people who survive on four hours and people who survive who need a minimum of 8 to 10. Um, so that aspect of it I, I think isn't. You can't be as prescriptive about.

Speaker A: Okay, so you, um, you wrote a book, um, and it is called the Heart of Peak Performance. And it's primarily directed at men. Correct.

Speaker B: The subtitle is Emotional the Heart of Peak Performance. Emotional Mastery for High Performing Men.

Speaker A: Yeah. What is it about? What are the differences typically between men and women as it relates to this work? Emotional intelligence, understand self awareness, those types of things.

Speaker B: Uh, some of the stereotypes of women are more emotional. Men are more disconnected from their emotions. The way that they process information, uh, the fact that they are problem solvers, you know, who want to quickly go to fix it mode. Um, the sort of beliefs that have been created around men and emotions or being emotional or being in touch with and expressing their emotions. Um, the competitive drive in men that is often different for women. Um, imposter syndrome, in my experience, is, um, more prevalent for men than it is for women. Um, so I would say those would be some of them.

Speaker A: Interesting. I thought you were going to say it was more prevalent for women. Imposter syndrome, that is. But do you actually think it's more prevalent for men?

Speaker B: In my experience, uh, I also work more with men, but I think part of that is because they're in these environments where they're performing at these high levels. And then there's part of this doubt of can I really do this? Can I really achieve this? And that voice is constantly gnawing at you, especially when there's so many eyes on you.

Speaker A: I think that's something that, in my experience, uh, almost everyone, I won't say everyone, but almost everyone feels or suffers from. Um, and I, I haven't quite figured out necessarily why that is. Um, do you have any thoughts on, like, the core root of what that is?

Speaker B: Well, I think, you know, we all want to be accepted and our brains are social. We have this tribal sense of wanting to belong. Uh, and so imposter syndrome, maybe in part is this idea of, hey, if I mess this up or if I'M really not as good. Um, then what will that do to my sense of belonging to the tribe?

Speaker A: Okay, so in the book I'm as, I haven't read it but I'm going to order a copy and get to it. But what is a high performing man like me or someone who wants to be high performing man like me, um, going to learn and take away from that? Is it really, does it take you through that kind of setup model or is there anything that we haven't really discussed here that somebody's going to really take away from that book?

Speaker B: Sure. A lot. Yeah. It helps you understand and predominantly for emotionally avoidant, um, high performing men, it helps you understand, you know, how those early years, why are they significant? You know, what, how did they contribute to who you are today? Um, it helps you understand um, you know, some of the neuroscience of how all of that works, why you fear vulnerability and trust and intimacy and things like that. Uh, and then you know, what are the stages of change? How do you then where do you go from there to um, you know, begin the change? What's the process of change? What are some tools that you can use? Um, you know where, where are the landmines and sort of some of the hiccups? Uh, and then how do you mitigate those? Um, so definitely all of that.

Speaker A: Got it. What would you say, um, if you were going to break it down into you know, let's say three to five core everyday little habits that somebody wanted, if somebody wanted to increase their neuro emotional intelligence on a daily basis, what would you say that. I know that's very generalized, um, when we're talking about specific whole people. But uh, do you have any kind of like quick wins, quick tips, stuff that works versus again stuff that we may hear out in the ether?

Speaker B: Um, I would say it's the things that allow you to grow your self awareness because that's where it all starts. So whether for you that's journaling or for you it's meditating, or for you it is therapy or for you it's you know, connecting to your social circle. What are the things that allow you to continue to um, dive deeper and deeper into that self reflection so that you can you know, have your blind spots called out to you, you can you know, do, do sort of some reflection on hey, what did I do today? Why did I do it? How did this happen? Why did this happen? Uh, because that it you. Without that step, there's nowhere else to go. If I haven't looked started with you know, looking at what happened to then notice, you know, something wasn't optimal, or I wish something had gone differently or something was optimal. And why. I can't get to the why unless I start with what am I looking at?

Speaker A: Right. So, like, starting there. I mean, I think, at least in my experience, in my coaching practice, we talk about journaling a lot and encourage journaling. And there's almost always with someone new, there's a massive resistance to doing it. Um, because, number one, I think they may not have, like, a. They want the perfect structure. Like, how do I do this? How do I actually journal? Well, you just write, um, but, you know, they want that. Like, people want that. Like, how do I do this thing? And. And then, second, it's like that. I don't know. It's just that, like, resistance of going in, um, or like, being vulnerable on a page and not just right here, but, like, uh, uh. Do you have any tips or tricks to help people, like, get over that resistance to that? Introspection is that it is hard. It's very hard, and it's interesting.

Speaker B: People are. It's like they're afraid of what they'll find. And what I, uh, often is they're afraid that they're gonna, like, get stuck in their emotions. And what I tell them is that stuff is there in your brain anyway, and it's affecting you anyway, so you're better served, you know, sort of taking it out of the cupboards and seeing what's there. Uh, and that gives you more control over it, rather than thinking that, oh, because I'm not looking at it. It's really not there. The analogy I use is, it's like if I was dumping a bottle of water and I was looking the other way, that bottle of water is still making a mess. The longer I don't look, the bigger mess I made, the mess is still there. And so I would rather have greater control over that and look and say, all right, well, you know, what is it? Where did it come from? Why is it happening? So that I can then, uh, be more the author of my narrative of, like, what's the thing that happened? How did it control me? What can I do instead? And the comment you made about the, you know, people want it to be so pretty and perfect. It's, um, part of my morning m. Uh, practices is gratitude. And I tell people, listen, it's like scribbles. You can't even read it. I can't even read it. But it's the fact that it's part of this habit that, um, you know, I'm so used to doing that. Um, my brain has, as a constant tool that. A constant practice. So it doesn't matter that it's not even legible. It's just the fact that it's the consistency.

Speaker A: Yeah, you opened the door, so I'm going to kick it wide open. What does your morning m. Practice look like?

Speaker B: Oh, God. So my morning ritual is typically, um, prayer, meditation, uh, gratitude, uh, and then, uh, yoga and then a workout.

Speaker A: Okay. I can see how all of those things are very linked, very, I would say spiritually linked, you know, in an, in a secular way. Um, why, why, why?

Speaker B: Those, um, they ground me, they. They center me and then the workout part kicks my ass.

Speaker A: Right. Yeah. Exhaust the body, tame the mind.

Speaker B: Do you have a morning practice?

Speaker A: Um, yeah, it does. It changes over time. Um, I'm sort of in a cycle right now where it's been. I'm usually a very, very big morning person. Um, but lately it's been difficult for me, um, just with things going on with family and that. But, um, no, it's very much, um, something very, very similar. I think I have. I. When I am at my best, I am able to stop and pause. So that's typically, um, some type of meditation. That might be me lightly stretching with my eyes closed, just letting things go. Or I may be just sitting and actually like meditating. Um, I typically use a Zen, Zen type practice. Uh, so it's, it's that it has. There has to be movement. Um, and again, that might be. It might be five minutes of just yoga here in my office or down in my gym. I might actually do a, you know, really hard workout. It's going to depend, but I think those two are vital. And then I have to read and I have to write. So it's really about kind of I say like basically sit, move, read, write. Like that's, that's what goes on in my brain. And that just sort of primes me to wake up, get connected, get the body moving, get my thoughts moving. Um, either out of my head or something like out of my head for something that's bothering me or something that I, you know, I've had an insight on that I want to capture and build on later. And I feel like that just typically sends the rest of the day in a much more intentional, calm and like driven path. Yeah, but I think, I mean, I do think, you know, even non routine is a routine. Um, I don't think it has to be like 800 things long, but I think, you Know, hitting the basics. Right. If you have a hard time getting going and foggy, move your, you know, just move yourself. Like there's a lot of talk about sunlight and optimizing this and you know you can go way overboard but it's. I just try to stay with, stick with four things. Sit, move, rewrite. That's it. Yeah. Um, so we talked, so we talked about reflection. Uh, is there anything else from a daily practice standpoint? You obviously gave me yours. But like daily practices to sort of like help increase our skill set at uh, neuro emotional intelligence.

Speaker B: Um, you know, just a side one I would say. Is that some kind of social connection and engagement? Um, whether that's you know, family, friends, loved ones, community, some something and some sense of community. I feel like that's so missing today for so many people.

Speaker A: Yeah, it definitely is. And like I am very. We have great friends, I have three kids. We have a lot of like a big social community. But uh, on a day to day basis I'm very isolated. I work by myself. Um, I'm usually thinking, writing, doing videos, that type of thing. Um, and when that goes really, really long, uh, for months and months, it definitely has an effect. It's like, okay, I need to actually connect with someone in person, not at the surface level, like ready to go on a walk with my best friend or go have a glass of wine or beer or something and like actually talk and connect, um, outside of the phone, outside of email, those types of things. So I do think that's a very underrated one for most people. Yeah. All right. Who, um, you mentioned Andrew Huberman. Who else out there uh, really influences your work? It could be in your field or outside. I'm just curious as to like who you're paying attention to, to um, as you evolve.

Speaker B: Um, really I think the answer might surprise you, but it's actually like different spiritual works and spiritual teachers. And I say that because um, uh, that's the place that uh, continues to draw me to grounding to what do people need to feel safe, seen and heard, which is such a longing today, um, to do more feminine elements. Um, and so the things that. Because the science and information and all that is so abundant, this other element allows me to um, uh, sort of, I think maybe soften or stay attuned to the deeper human need while bringing in all of that other, Other information.

Speaker A: Got it. Okay. Yeah, I think it's very important for people just on that thread, I mean to have some type of spiritual connection. And I look at it as very secular I mean, I grew up Catholic, I am Catholic, my kids are Catholic, all of that. But I really think about spirituality as a frame of kind of order under reminding yourself of what's really important, what the priorities are, um, connection, connection to those around you, that type of thing. And I think that can. There's a big benefit to sort of humility, I think, um, when you have that. And I think part of that can, can be through social relationships, just connecting with someone else, connecting with some, with people that aren't like you as well, can be a, uh, somewhat spiritual, um, event. So, yeah, I think that. I do think that is needed as well. Uh, so speaking of books, these are kind of like little closing questions that I. That I typically have. But you, you've obviously written a book. What is the last book you've read or are reading right now?

Speaker B: It's actually on my desk. Uh, it's Susan McCain. Bittersweet how sorrow and Longing Make Us Whole.

Speaker A: Oh, interesting. Okay, well, who is the author again? I missed it.

Speaker B: Susan Kane. She's the woman who wrote a very popular book called Quiet the Power of Introverts in a World that Can't Stop Talking.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Love that book.

Speaker A: Yes, I read that one because I am an introvert. So I was like, self confirming. All right, you know, where's our power? Um, cool. Uh, and if you could tell the world anything, put it on a billboard, put it up in Times Square, what would that be?

Speaker B: Uh, it would be the question, are you at peace?

Speaker A: Very good one. Love that. Very simple. Love it. All right. Is there anything else that I did not ask you because I'm a dumb podcast host that I should have asked you that you would love to say and get to our. Oh, okay, cool. Very good. Um, yeah, I just, you know, like I said, I got my point of view, I got my questions, but I miss things. So I just wanted to give you that opportunity, um, you know, to fill in the blanks if I skipped anything. Where can people find out more about you? Um, and the work that you do where, where kind of your preferred maybe modes of communication or where people can

Speaker B: just find you super simple work With Layla. It's L, E, I, L A. So workwithla.com and then LinkedIn is where I'm most active. And it's the same tagline.

Speaker A: Excellent. Well, we will have all of those, uh, in the show notes, links for everybody. When, when this comes out, we will have a link to the book the Heart of Peak Performance. Leila, thank you so much for spending your time with us, educating us on this vast world of neuro emotional learning. And I think uh, we've all take. We've all got some nuggets here to take away and, and um, be able to build on in our own lives. So thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Speaker B: Thank you, thank you.